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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, April 15, 2024

Elon Musk sent Tesla employees a memo on Sunday announcing the EV maker is laying off more than 10% of its workforce globally.

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Turning Tesla into Twitter.

#1 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-04-15 10:35 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Smart move at this time and place as demand for the EVs is falling.

#2 | Posted by MSgt at 2024-04-15 12:00 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

What a waste of "decimate", terrible editing Rcade.

#3 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-04-15 12:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

TSLA stock is down 34% YTD and under-performing the S&P 500 over the past five years. YTD stock price graph looks a lot like that for DJT. I guess that's what happens when a public company has a blowhard narcissist as controlling stockholder...

#4 | Posted by catdog at 2024-04-15 02:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#4 | Posted by catdog

While that doesn't help, they are doing everything in their power as a company to kill the business.

- Inability to deliver Cyber trucks.
- Issues with Cyber trucks.
- Demanding buyers not resell their Cybertrucks for a year. Seriously do they think these are a rare super car or something?
- Lying to customers about delivery dates for Cyber trucks.
- Other as always delayed products.

But certainly Musk seriously turning off the Tesla purchaser base with all his antics and statements hurts. I mean does he think Texans are buying his vehicles by the plant load? Not in comparison to Californians they aren't.

#5 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2024-04-15 02:09 PM | Reply

Smart move at this time and place as demand for the EVs is falling.

#2 | Posted by MSgt at 2024-04-15 12:00 PM

Is it? Or is there just a lot of choice now?

Globally last year saw a massive uptick in EV sales. About 14 million sold globally with just over 10 million the year before. With China having the biggest jump but US jumped from 1 million to 1.6 million. GROWTH in EV sales has "slowed" but continues for 2024 so far and is expected to be up in the US but not 60% up like last year.

The choice came from all in electric efforts by some brands. They are learning the hard way that they over exceeded the market. Look, an EV truck has limited appeal in comparison to a dino fueled one today. So no they are not flying out of the dealerships. Just bad manufacturing choices.

#6 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2024-04-15 02:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Smart move at this time and place as demand for the EVs is falling.
#2 | Posted by MSgt at 2024-04-15 12:00 PM
Is it? Or is there just a lot of choice now?
Globally last year saw a massive uptick in EV sales. About 14 million sold globally with just over 10 million the year before. With China having the biggest jump but US jumped from 1 million to 1.6 million. GROWTH in EV sales has "slowed" but continues for 2024 so far and is expected to be up in the US but not 60% up like last year.
The choice came from all in electric efforts by some brands. They are learning the hard way that they over exceeded the market. Look, an EV truck has limited appeal in comparison to a dino fueled one today. So no they are not flying out of the dealerships. Just bad manufacturing choices.
#6 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2024-04-15 02:19 PM

The petroleum ownership society is a parasite, and it can and should be killed, imo.

#7 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2024-04-15 02:31 PM | Reply

@#6 ... GROWTH in EV sales has "slowed" but continues for 2024 so far and is expected to be up in the US but not 60% up like last year. ...

That's an important point.

Yes, EV sales are still growing, but the rate of that growth appears to have slowed considerably.


#8 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-04-15 02:36 PM | Reply

Actually I found numbers... Still predicting about 60% EV Sales Growth for 2024 after the reduction. JD Powers

Just to reiterate - Tesla's problems are their own. I personally greatly dislike the whole driving experience of them.

#9 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2024-04-15 02:41 PM | Reply

Is it? Or is there just a lot of choice now?
- Galaxy

Are there?

Most if not all domestic EV manufacturers are on the ropes.

I wouldn't buy one for that reason alone.

But would consider a Tesla, seems like a known quantity. I image Tesla being around 5yrs from now.

#10 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-04-15 02:47 PM | Reply

I was driving Pueblo - KC a week or so ago, and caught in the dust storms which closed I-70 in Kansas & Colorado. In an EV, I'd have been trapped waiting for a charger, then looking to see if there were any charging stations on the southerly detour I chose (there weren't). Until a battery can be charged as fast as a gas tank can be filled, I woudn't consider one.

#11 | Posted by HeeHaw at 2024-04-15 03:10 PM | Reply

#10 | Posted by oneironaut

You mean startups are on the ropes? I agree. But there is a growing list by not-a-startup companies - Car & Driver: Here's Every New Electric Vehicle Model for Sale in the U.S. for 2024

Keep in mind Tesla was still 56% of US EV sales last year.

#12 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2024-04-15 03:10 PM | Reply

#11 | Posted by HeeHaw

I get where you are coming from - thus Hybrids. But for 95% of everday commuters, an EV would actually be awesome. Honestly I am not willing to invest in a truck EV at the moment as they are more than a bit disappointing and won't be ditching my Truck but we have been talking about it for my wife. I just don't want a Tesla. Considered an Ioniq until I seen their poor battery protection and how easy it is to total one because they charge more for the battery than the car... There isn't a whole lot she is too interested in. Maybe the Subaru Solterra but I think we will end up with a Toyota or Honda Hybrid.

#13 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2024-04-15 03:18 PM | Reply

#12

My issue with legacy car companies trying to move EVs is they still look like their ICE products.

The Prius, you knew it was different. Tesla same thing. The legacy is trying to shoe horn in the EV on an ICE chassis.

EV is a status symbol at $80K. I don't expect these legacy manufactures to make great inroads using the old styling.

There's no reason for a radiator grill on an EV.

#14 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-04-15 03:19 PM | Reply

"I think we will end up with a Toyota or Honda Hybrid."

I have a Prius, I love it. Have some interest in a EV, probably a Tesla. But I also have a 2003 7.3L Diesel Super Duty F-250.

#15 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-04-15 03:22 PM | Reply

...caught in the dust storms which closed I-70 in Kansas & Colorado. In an EV, I'd have been trapped waiting for a charger

Why? Doesn't take any power to sit and wait.

#16 | Posted by qcp at 2024-04-15 03:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#14 | Posted by oneironaut

There are a lot of EVs in the mid-40s to low-50s not on an ICE chassis now. The styling is a different matter - 100+ years of styling you are combating which some buyers are okay with but most are not.

#17 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2024-04-15 05:45 PM | Reply

#16 | Posted by qcp

Heating, cooling and entertainment all do drain the battery.

#18 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2024-04-15 05:46 PM | Reply

@#18 ... Heating, cooling and entertainment all do drain the battery. ...

... and that ~livingroom-like~ entertainment center can be a drain.


Those photos do not just appear out of nothingness.

#19 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-04-15 06:31 PM | Reply

photos

- should be -

photons

Referring to the screens of the entertainment center.

Oh well.... :(



#20 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-04-15 06:51 PM | Reply

"Not on an ICE chassis"

The skateboard design is not an improvement. It's just Body on Frame with a lower frame. There are huge advantages to the Unibody design and you can still mount batteries low in them.

#21 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-04-15 07:07 PM | Reply

and people aren't rushing out to buy Apteras just because they look different. The utility is basically non-existent.

#22 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-04-15 07:08 PM | Reply

I have a Prius, I love it. Have some interest in a EV, probably a Tesla. But I also have a 2003 7.3L Diesel Super Duty F-250.

#15 | Posted by oneironaut

We found the one republican customer elon gained by driving away millions of liberal customers. This is why the stock is tanking.

#23 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2024-04-15 07:31 PM | Reply

Until a battery can be charged as fast as a gas tank can be filled, I woudn't consider one.

#11 | Posted by HeeHaw

I charge my battery in 5 seconds by plugging in when i get home. Have no idea what gas prices are. Hasnt affected me in years. I do miss getting panhandled by bums at gas stations though.

#24 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2024-04-15 07:33 PM | Reply

But I also have a 2003 7.3L Diesel Super Duty F-250.

This alias is sounding faker by the day. He originally said he had a Tesla.

Now he has an F-250, a Prius and a plane. Oh, and wife that works at FB. Horses? Does he have those too?

#25 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-04-15 07:46 PM | Reply

@#25 ... This alias is sounding faker by the day. ...

My view is that that current alias is little more than a troll. With a purpose to disrupt, and not to discuss.

The only aspect that still is uncertain for me is, a troll for what entity?

I have opinions in that area, but more that I'll want to proffer for now.

And, once again, I offer my many sincere thanks to RCade for dealing with this most august site.



#26 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-04-15 07:53 PM | Reply

Frank Zappa, The Mothers Of Invention - Montana (1973)
www.youtube.com

Lyrics excerpt...

genius.com

...
I might be movin' to Montana soon
Just to raise me up a crop of dental floss
Raisin' it up, waxin' it down
In a little white box that I can sell uptown
By myself, I wouldn't have no boss
But I'd be raisin' my lonely dental floss
Raisin' my lonely dental floss
...

Oh, they don't write lyrics like that anymore....


#27 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-04-15 07:58 PM | Reply

@#24 ... I charge my battery in 5 seconds by plugging in when i get home. ...

Are you saying you battery goes from, say 20% charge to 100% charge in 5 seconds?

For starters, that amount of energy transfer may be dangerous, depending upon the capacity of the battery in question.

So ....


Please be more specific.

thx.

#28 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-04-15 08:12 PM | Reply

Please be more specific.

I'll take a stab as he meant it takes 5 seconds to plug it in and it's 100% charged by the time he needs it.

EVs are a near perfect vehicle for some people. Short range, light loads? Charge at home overnight...why not?

EVs don't work yet for long ranges or heavy loads. If that's your world, don't buy one.

#29 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-04-15 08:39 PM | Reply

@#29 ... I'll take a stab as he meant it takes 5 seconds to plug it in and it's 100% charged by the time he needs it. ...

Yeah, I do not disagree.

But the charging time is why I asked.

I go to a gas station, and in a few minutes, I have a full tank of gas.

OK suppose I am traveling to visit family in northeast Ohio.

With gas, I can stop and refill in minutes.

With EV batteries? How long to refill?



#30 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-04-15 08:57 PM | Reply

With EV batteries? How long to refill?

I have no idea. My thinking is if you can't get to your destination and back on one charge, an EV is not a good choice.

#31 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-04-15 09:02 PM | Reply

And then there is the aspect...

OK, the EV may give me the battery ability to use the vehicle for hundreds of miles.

But at what cost?

Why should I need to drag those heavy batteries (capable of hundreds of miles of travel) for the 5 mile trip to my grocery store?

Are the EV vehicle manufacturers optimizing for the outlier case of long-distance travel, and ignoring the more routine daily travel of vehicles?

#32 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-04-15 09:03 PM | Reply

#13 daily commuters do more than daily commuting. The vehicle has to also be suitable for the primary edge case, long distances or heavy daily use. People don't want to own a second car or rent one just to make a simple day trip like Austin to DFW.

#33 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-04-16 07:27 AM | Reply

For starters, that amount of energy transfer may be dangerous, depending upon the capacity of the battery in question.

#28 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER AT 2024-04-15 08:12 PM | REPLY

Assuming we are charging from a normal 50% storage charge, it's 136 amps at 220v. That's not realistic on a home charge and potentially dangerous. However, Tesla iirc uses 400v architecture, so that's only 75 amps sustained for 5 minutes. That's doable theoretically but no commercial solution exists for it. The Tesla wall connector is only rated to 32 amps @ 400V, so yuo're going to need about 12 minutes to uh.. SuperCharge it.

Absolutely terrible for battery life though. Murders it, causes puffing, drastically reduces battery life over time. If you are charging a lipo battery, the optimal charge rate is 1C, which is 1 hour to full capacity regardless of total amp/hours the battery contains.

#34 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-04-16 08:09 AM | Reply

Running that system off of solar isn't cost efficient in the least though. The good hybrid inverters can't fast charge, they are 50 amp @ 220V limited, which is good enough to only run a home air conditioner and not much in the way of other high drain appliances. So you need multiple inverters each at least $5k, then since you can't solar charge at night, when most people garage their cars and charge, you have to have racks of battery storage. You'd need $7k in batteries just to hold the 30k to put in the vehicle, and another $14k in battery racks to run your home overnight except in very favorable climates. Another $20-30k in solar panels. Ancillary charges to remove and reinstall the entire system when you do your roof every 10 years or so.

Just putting gas in a car is a hell of a lot cheaper than at home solar charging an EV.

#35 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-04-16 08:14 AM | Reply

Masterful gambit sir

#36 | Posted by JOE at 2024-04-16 08:37 AM | Reply

Masterful gambit sir

#36 | POSTED BY JOE AT 2024-04-16 08:37 AM | FLAG:

and yesterday he asked shareholders to reinstate his compensation package.

...

#37 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-04-17 10:20 AM | Reply

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