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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, March 24, 2024

Recent incidents involving Boeing aircraft have spooked nervous travelers, with some going so far as to rebook flights to get on a plane made by a different manufacturer. The travel search engine Kayak says it has seen a spike in users taking advantage of an option that filters out specific plane models

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I really do not blame them for doing so.

#1 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-03-24 11:14 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

It's a very uninformed thing to do, driven by media hysteria.

#2 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-03-24 12:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It's a very uninformed thing to do, driven by media hysteria. #2 | Posted by sitzkrieg

Perhaps the concern is overblown, but when you have "2 ex-Boeing staffers said they wouldn't fly on the 737 Max, citing pressure to 'rush the planes out the door'" www.businessinsider.com

Reputation means something, and Boeing has badly damaged theirs.

#3 | Posted by censored at 2024-03-24 01:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Was it media hysteria when Trump grounded them too?

#4 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-03-24 01:13 PM | Reply

@#2 ... It's a very uninformed thing to do ...

Possibly. Possibly not.

In either case, I would not be so quick to blame media hysteria for Boeing's egregious lapse in quality, apparently looking for profits over quality.

The blame rests firmly upon Boeing.

Don't blame the messenger.

#5 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-03-24 01:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#2 Sitzkrieg I don't think so. I look at it this way. 1: Boeing is doing their own safety checks and audits. Since they have started supposedly doing this a door blew off a plane in midair. then they discovered that no one put the bolts in to secure the door in the first place. 2. A wheel fell off the landiing gear whila a plane was taking off and damaged several cars. This would make it extremely hard to land a plane without causing an accident. 3. An engine burst into flames while flying. This all has happened in the last 2 months. Personally, I wouldn't fly on a Boeing plane of any kind. I like to live.

#6 | Posted by Ronnie68 at 2024-03-24 05:06 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"I like to live."

See, hysteria. Boeing hysteria traces back to nobody bothering to read the accident reports for the 737MAX crashes.

It's not the Boeing that kills you. It's the pilot.

#7 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-03-24 07:31 PM | Reply

US air travel safety per passenger mile is excellent.

People are terrible at threat recognition.

#8 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-03-24 07:36 PM | Reply

Doesn't a 737 take off or land somewhere every 30 seconds or something like that?

#9 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-03-24 07:42 PM | Reply

@#7 ... See, hysteria. ...

Maybe your comments should be more discerning and descriptive when they say "media" then.

Yeah, this site is "media" but the typical usage of that word is in reference to TV, news sites, etc. Not a comment on a message board.

That aside. ...

I also like to live.

And Boeing planes of late seem to have issues (self-inflicted issues) that do not seem to be conductive to that end.




#10 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-03-24 07:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Count me in. But I don't call it a boycott. I call it self-preservation. If Boeing can't protect me, I'll protect myself, thank you.

#11 | Posted by Twinpac at 2024-03-24 07:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#7 ... It's not the Boeing that kills you. It's the pilot ...

The pilot will do all possible, within the constraints placed upon the pilot by Boeings's design and manufacturing processes, to keep the passengers safe. I agree 1000% (yes, a thousand) with that.

But at some point, the pilot is effectively just a messenger for the performance of the plane that Boeing provides.

Once again, why shoot the messenger?


#12 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-03-24 07:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#12 ... The pilot will do all possible, ...

A close friend was a pilot for major airline. (probably retired now, though)

In his "out-of-college" years, he was a Navy Air fighter pilot. He told me the airlines seem to prefer military fighter pilots over the military long-haul cargo pilots because the fighter pilots are way more aware and reactive. The long haul pilots tended to switch on auto-pilot and sleep.

OK, that may be inter-task bravado, but, in a way, I do agree.

He and I have had many discussions over the years. Yeah, based upon those discussions, my view is... the pilot on a passenger airliner will do all possible within the constraints of the plane and if needed, outside the constraints of the plane, to keep the passengers safe.

But, when the plane is dropping pieces of itself in flight....



#13 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-03-24 07:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

constraints placed upon the pilot by Boeings's design and manufacturing processes

And legal processes. Boeing went to great lengths to avoid having the 737 Max classed as a new design rather than a modification. Saved on training time.

I sat with a United pilot who was doing his Max training on an iPad on a flight to Denver.

#14 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-03-24 08:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

@#14 ... Boeing went to great lengths to avoid having the 737 Max classed as a new design rather than a modification. Saved on training time. ...

Not only that, but safety waivers....


Boeing withdraws request for safety waiver for the 737 Max 7 (January 2024)
www.cbsnews.com

... Boeing has withdrawn a request for the Federal Aviation Administration to grant a safety waiver for the 737 Max 7 after the manufacturer reported an issue with the Max's anti-ice system last year.

"We have informed the FAA that we are withdrawing our request for a time-limited exemption relating to the engine inlet deicing system on the 737-7," Boeing said Monday in a statement. "While we are confident that the proposed time-limited exemption for that system follows established FAA processes to ensure safe operation, we will instead incorporate an engineering solution that will be completed during the certification process."

The withdrawal follows pressure from Democratic Sen. Tammy Duckworth of Illinois, chair of the Senate Subcommittee on Aviation Safety, who last week sent a letter to the FAA demanding it reject Boeing's request.

"While Boeing never should have sought this exemption to put another new aircraft with a known safety defect into service in the first place, I'm both relieved and appreciative that they are putting the flying public's safety first by withdrawing this petition," Duckworth said Monday. "I hope this decision marks the beginning of a turnaround in Boeing's safety culture moving forward and I encourage the company to put its full focus into fixing the known safety flaw on the MAX 7 and other MAX aircraft that could lead to catastrophic consequences for passengers and crew."

The FAA in August 2023 issued an Airworthiness Directive, a regulation designed to fix an issue with a plane, that "was prompted by a report indicating that use of engine anti-ice (EAI) in dry air for more than five minutes during certain environmental and operational conditions can cause overheating of the engine inlet inner barrel beyond the material design limit, resulting in failure of the engine inlet inner barrel and severe engine inlet cowl damage."

The 737 Max 7, the smallest of the four 737 Max variants, is currently uncertified, but the issue also exists on 737 Max 8 and Max 9 aircraft already flying. ...


Wow.


#15 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-03-24 08:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

My wife and I are headed to Thailand for two weeks in November, I'm happy they fly Airbus.

#16 | Posted by _Gunslinger_ at 2024-03-25 07:00 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The pilot will do all possible, within the constraints placed upon the pilot by Boeings's design and manufacturing processes, to keep the passengers safe. I agree 1000% (yes, a thousand) with that.

#12 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER AT 2024-03-24 07:46 PM | REPLY

This thread only exists because of the second 737MAX crash, where the pilots ignored the stick shaker, overspeed audio warning, and the visual overspeed indicator, and killed everybody.

The only thing dangerous about US air travel is the drive to the airport.

#17 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-03-25 08:05 AM | Reply

Maybe your comments should be more discerning and descriptive when they say "media" then

#10 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER AT 2024-03-24 07:42 PM | FLAG:

"Ignorant, media fueled hysteria for people with poor threat analysis."

#18 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-03-25 08:06 AM | Reply

media fueled hysteria

It's the media's fault that a door plug blew off a Boeing midflight and that NTSB has accused Boeing of being uncooperative in its investigation? It's the media's fault the wheels are literally falling off Boeing planes?

Air travel in the US is indeed safe. But nobody wants to be on the one plane where it happens not to be. And with the recent cluster of incidents all involving Boeing aircraft, it's rational for people to avoid them.

#19 | Posted by JOE at 2024-03-25 08:42 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Anyways. I'm on a short trip right now and intentionally scheduled non-Boeing flights. Maybe consumers changing their behavior will be what causes Boeing to stop having issues with their planes. Conservatives always tell me this is how capitalism is supposed to work.

#20 | Posted by JOE at 2024-03-25 09:41 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

And with the recent cluster of incidents all involving Boeing aircraft

#19 | POSTED BY JOE AT 2024-03-25 08:42 AM | FLAG:

Half the A320neo fleet is grounded and has been for 5 months while they repair at least 700 manufacturer (P&W) defective engines.

So yes, that's a Media Fueled Hysteria if you're freaking out of a Boeing label and don't know about fleetwide Airbus groundings of the 737 competitor airframe.

#21 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-03-25 09:42 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Conservatives always tell me this is how capitalism is supposed to work.

#20 | POSTED BY JOE AT 2024-03-25 09:41 AM | FLAG:

It's an idea of how capitalism works, where the actors are prone to irrational behavior but the market works itself out. Thesis: How can markets be efficient if economic actors are irrational? Irrationality is the result of high subjective costs of transaction, which can be reduced through a variety of social and cognitive mechanisms. These mechanisms allow for market efficiency even with actors prone to highly irrational decision-making.

#22 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-03-25 09:47 AM | Reply

Half the A320neo fleet is grounded and has been for 5 months while they repair at least 700 manufacturer (P&W) defective engines.

Cool. I flew an Embraer yesterday, but i'm glad to hear Airbus caught that issue before they had a midflight incident. Unfortunately Boeing seems to be incapable of doing that.

#23 | Posted by JOE at 2024-03-25 09:54 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Those are joint-ventures with Boeing.

#24 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-03-25 10:18 AM | Reply

sarcasm on the Emb-Boe joint ventures aside, and the regional jets being extremely safe but not quite relevant to the 737/A320 routes, they still don't know all of the effected A320 and the grounding of them keeps expanding and expanding. So if you're worried about flying in a 737, realistically the A320 isn't an option either, right? Because we're rational but somehow scared of the safety travel system in the US, which isn't at all influenced by very selective media coverage.

#25 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-03-25 10:23 AM | Reply

they still don't know all of the effected A320 and the grounding of them keeps expanding and expanding

Again. If they ground a plane before a midflight incident that is a good thing. Boeing should step up their game and do the same.

#26 | Posted by JOE at 2024-03-25 12:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"It's an idea of how capitalism works, where the actors are prone to irrational behavior but the market works itself out."

"The market works itself out".

Right.

After the government steps in, of course.

Boeing has obviously put profit before people and this is what happens.

#27 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-03-25 12:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#18 Sitzkrieg Do you have stock in Boeing? You seem so adamant that Boeing is safe despite what we see and hear, it makes me wonder.

#28 | Posted by Ronnie68 at 2024-03-25 12:29 PM | Reply

Boeing is not an organization that values consumer safety over profits.

And it comes from the top.

They spent more money on dividend reinvestment than research and development and and public safety.

And because of that now the CEO is being forced to step down.

www.cnbc.com

#29 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-03-25 12:58 PM | Reply

#28 His fanboy attitude makes me think he works there.

#30 | Posted by JOE at 2024-03-25 01:18 PM | Reply

#6 "2. A wheel fell off the landiing gear whila a plane was taking off and damaged several cars. This would make it extremely hard to land a plane without causing an accident. 3. An engine burst into flames while flying."

2. You're blaming Boeing for an improperly reinstalled wheel on a plane that was a decade old and had been touched by United maintenance. That's not Boeing's fault.

3. You know Boeing doesn't make engines, right?

#31 | Posted by DarkVader at 2024-03-25 03:01 PM | Reply

How have we already stopped discussing how they murdered a whistleblower like 3 weeks ago?

#32 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2024-03-25 05:48 PM | Reply

You seem so adamant that Boeing is safe despite what we see and hear

#28 | POSTED BY RONNIE68 AT 2024-03-25 12:29 PM | REPLY

No stock. Turned down a job there 10 years ago, I never liked the corporate culture.

No airliner has had a fatal crash in the US since 2009. It was a Bombardier Q400. If what you see and hear is that US air travel is unsafe, you are in a bubble of media fueled hysteria.

#33 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-03-26 08:28 AM | Reply

hey spent more money on dividend reinvestment than research and development and and public safety.

#29 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY AT 2024-03-25 12:58 PM | FLAG:

Name the commercial aircraft manufacturers that didn't do that.

#34 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-03-26 08:30 AM | Reply

As soon as Covid hit, Airbus did exactly what Boeing did. Cut R&D and went into Stock Buyback mode and have continued since.

"The share buyback is undertaken pursuant to the general authority conferred on the Airbus SE Board of Directors by the 13th resolution to repurchase up to 10% of Airbus SE's issued share capital by the Annual General Meeting of shareholders of Airbus SE on 19 April 2023"

#35 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-03-26 08:32 AM | Reply

and since people are scared of flying Boeing because of Boeing's corrupt corporate culture, your alternative again, is Airbus, with it's corrupt corporate culture investigated from 2004 to 2016, by multiple countries, and they had to buy their way out of criminal charges.. and these completely rational and informed people jump off that 737 to fly in an A320 which is part of an ever expanding grounding for engine failures. I'm not the greatest pilot, but overriding the many flight systems that effect the tail is 1 button, and engine failures can't be over-ridden, and you have no idea if the plane you're on should have been grounded or not.

"The settlement with the authorities in France, Britain and the United States closes four years of investigations into accusations that Airbus, between 2004 and 2016, used intermediaries to bribe public officials in numerous countries to buy its planes and satellites. The episode had tarnished the company's reputation and forced it to make sweeping changes to top management. It also allows Airbus to avoid criminal charges that, if proved, could have crippled its business by prohibiting the company from seeking public contracts in Europe and the United States. Airbus will be subject to three years of "light compliance monitoring" in France, the nation's anticorruption agency said Friday."

Reason has been thrown out the window in favor of media hysteria.

#36 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-03-26 09:13 AM | Reply

No airliner has had a fatal crash in the US since 2009. It was a Bombardier Q400. If what you see and hear is that US air travel is unsafe, you are in a bubble of media fueled hysteria.

You keep throwing out this strawman. Nobody ever said "US air travel is unsafe." Air travel is safe, in part due to meticulous engineering, maintenance and inspection processes that would uncover flaws down to a millimeter that, if missed, could cause catastrophic failures midflight. When one particular airline company has a cluster of issues suggesting their engineering, maintenance or inspection processes may be compromised, it is rational for people to avoid flying on that company's planes. It isn't because they think "air travel is unsafe," it's because they are playing the odds and don't want to be on the one plane that ends up hurtling down to the ground.

#37 | Posted by JOE at 2024-03-26 10:04 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Reason has been thrown out the window in favor of media hysteria.

#36 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

It's reasonable to expect that proper maintenance is being done and all the bolts are in place and that your doors don't blow off in flight. And the video was terrifying. Anyone viewing it would be justifiably concerned. And then to find out about the lack of concern for maintenance and safety from the employees within the company. Boeing brought the all media attention upon themselves. They put profits before the safety of people.

And because of this mismanagement of the company the CEO has had to step down.

I hope you don't loose too much of your investments while they recover from their own self inflicted wounds.

#38 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-03-26 11:43 AM | Reply

Reason has been thrown out the window in favor of media hysteria.
#36 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

I believe the phrase you're looking for is:

Markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.

(And that's a feature, not a bug.)

#39 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-03-26 11:47 AM | Reply

hey spent more money on dividend reinvestment than research and development and and public safety.
#29 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY AT 2024-03-25 12:58 PM | FLAG:
Name the commercial aircraft manufacturers that didn't do that.
#34 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-03-26 08:30 AM

Cadaver capitalism.

#40 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2024-03-26 04:42 PM | Reply

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