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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, January 29, 2024

Dahlia Lithwick and Mark Joseph Stern: Alabama claimed that this would be a painless execution. It was not.

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Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

The 3 liberals were right. Everyone else was wrong. Don't expect any recognition of responsibility or apologies.

#1 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2024-01-29 12:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Wrong?

According to the Alabama State Attorney General, the horrific execution went exactly as planned, and there are 43 more inmates on Death Row scheduled to be executed this way.

So Much Winning!
#MAGA

#2 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-01-29 12:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Allowing an execution by suffocation. There is their christian values on display.

#3 | Posted by Nixon at 2024-01-29 01:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Why not just toss them in a tank of water with a stone around their ankles?

#4 | Posted by Nixon at 2024-01-29 01:38 PM | Reply

The death penalty is evil

#5 | Posted by PunchyPossum at 2024-01-29 02:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

You know what went wrong? Killing a woman for money.

#6 | Posted by Tor at 2024-01-29 02:28 PM | Reply

Re 6

So now two wrongs make a right?

Ok. Good to know. (not)

#7 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-01-29 02:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

As a asked on the other thread: After the crime was committed almost 30 years ago, what purpose does this execution serve but to satisfy someone's sadistic nature?

You know what went wrong? Killing a woman for money.

#6 | POSTED BY TOR

It's amazing how much you theists still love that "eye for an eye" crap.

#8 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2024-01-29 03:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Never said anything about an eye for an eye.

Do you deny killing someone for money is wrong?

#9 | Posted by Tor at 2024-01-29 03:21 PM | Reply

Do you deny killing someone for money is wrong?

#9 | POSTED BY TOR

No one is denying your strawman.

Are you denying that the execution was a disaster, went wrong and was cruel (the actual topic of the thread)?

#10 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-01-29 03:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

I acknowledge that, with very few exceptions, killing anyone is wrong. Even murderers. You're the one who seems to be implying that the death penalty is acceptable, perhaps even your preferred punishment for murder.(an eye for an eye)

#11 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2024-01-29 03:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Oh good.

Now explain why people who haven't committed a crime should be compelled to give money to someone who we can be entirely sure committed murder for money.

#12 | Posted by Tor at 2024-01-29 03:41 PM | Reply

Oh good.
Now explain why people who haven't committed a crime should be compelled to give money to someone who we can be entirely sure committed murder for money.

#12 | POSTED BY TOR

LOL, people around here often claim that I act morally superior to others. Posts like this prove that I am morally superior to some.

#13 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-01-29 03:47 PM | Reply

Now explain why people who haven't committed a crime should be compelled to give money to someone who we can be entirely sure committed murder for money.

#12 | POSTED BY TOR

Why should anyone even respond to an obvious strawman argument.

The executions are more expensive than supporting someone for life in prison.

Studies consistently find that the death penalty is more expensive than alternative punishments.

ejusa.org

deathpenaltyinfo.org

#14 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-01-29 03:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Go on now explain why they should have to pay for the Ted Bundy's of the world.

Or are you not a good person you just like to think you don't suck?

#15 | Posted by Tor at 2024-01-29 03:52 PM | Reply

"Go on now explain why they should have to pay for the Ted Bundy's of the world."

Execution isn't free.
It costs more than life in prison, actually.
Why should we pay more to execute Ted Bundy?

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-01-29 03:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It's expensive because of people who don't want executions.

You want it to be less expensive?

#17 | Posted by Tor at 2024-01-29 04:01 PM | Reply

"It's expensive"

It is.

And you want to pay more, why?

#18 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-01-29 04:05 PM | Reply

Tor, you REALLY REALLY want to kill people.

You make a great christian.

#19 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-01-29 04:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

"Go on now explain why they should have to pay for the Ted Bundy's of the world."

They also get free healthcare when most citizens don't.

Mind blown!!!!!!

#20 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-01-29 04:12 PM | Reply

Yeah you're avoiding the question.

You're also acting like a republican.

Make do everything you can to make sure a program fails and then hold up it's not working well as proof it's a bad idea.

#21 | Posted by Tor at 2024-01-29 04:21 PM | Reply

Avoiding what question? The price tag of a human life?

What dollar value do you place on a human life? When you give that I can debate you.

#22 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-01-29 04:25 PM | Reply

"Make do everything you can to make sure a program fails"

The Innocence Project lists well over a hundred truly innocent people who have been put to death.

Are those examples of the program failing?

#23 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-01-29 04:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Yeah you're avoiding the question.
You're also acting like a republican.
Make do everything you can to make sure a program fails and then hold up it's not working well as proof it's a bad idea.

#21 | POSTED BY TOR A

?? Your solution seems to be summary execution with a bullet to the head.

Given the number of innocent people killed, feeble minded people killed, people killed who were subjected to corrupt prosecution, I think the current system is working as designed. You know attempting to ensure that only the guilty are killed.

I, of course, go way beyond that and think every person has value and should be afforded the chance at redemption.

Example Karla Faye Tucker-killed 2 people in a gruesome attack. She was on drugs at the time.

No doubt she was guilty of the crime and deserved to be held accountable.

After being in jail she cleaned herself up, found religion, was a model prisoner and most importantly was counseling other inmates on improving their lives to change their lives, stop committing crimes and avoid prison.

Everyone agreed and acknowledged that.

She was put to death.

Was that for the betterment of society?

The captain of the "Death House Team," Fred Allen, was interviewed by Werner Herzog for the 2011 documentary Into the Abyss. Within days after Tucker's execution, one of over 120 he managed, he suffered an emotional breakdown. He resigned his job, giving up his pension, and changed his position on the death penalty. "I was pro capital punishment. After Karla Faye and after all this, until this day, eleven years later, no sir. Nobody has the right to take another life. I don't care if it's the law. And it's so easy to change the law."[39]

#24 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-01-29 04:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Posted by Tor

Stupid POS.

Consume feces and expire.

#25 | Posted by Angrydad at 2024-01-29 05:17 PM | Reply

You go ahead and talk trash from your trailer ---.

#26 | Posted by Tor at 2024-01-29 05:33 PM | Reply

Ban the death penalty. It's inhumane.

#27 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2024-01-29 05:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Tor using a homophobic slur. Nice

#28 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-01-29 05:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#17 Tor NO, we just don't want it period. The death penalty is wrong!

#29 | Posted by Ronnie68 at 2024-01-29 05:55 PM | Reply

Oh I'm sorry princess did you think it was okay for him to wish me death?

#30 | Posted by Tor at 2024-01-29 06:00 PM | Reply

Quit burying the lede and try to stay on topic. This is a travesty. The American Legal System is screwed up in quite a few ways

#31 | Posted by hamburglar at 2024-01-29 06:25 PM | Reply

Oh I'm sorry princess did you think it was okay for him to wish me death? #30 | Posted by Tor

Well, he said it in a fairly elegant manner. Eh wot?

#32 | Posted by censored at 2024-01-29 06:27 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Tor using a homophobic slur. Nice"

Either that, or he's using British slang.

#33 | Posted by sentinel at 2024-01-29 08:49 PM | Reply

You go ahead and talk trash from your trailer ---.

#26 | POSTED BY TOR AT 2024-01-29 05:33 PM | FLAG:

Tor must have forgotten 'love thy neighbor' and 'judge not, lest thee be judged'...

No?

How about, 'turn the other cheek' then?

Ring a bell?

It is indeed a sad day when a former Catholic, turned atheist, knows more about being 'Christian' than a self-professed 'Proud Christian'.

And it's also sad that Modern Christianity has become a crutch for those seeking retribution and vengence in general.

#34 | Posted by earthmuse at 2024-01-29 08:57 PM | Reply

And it's also sad that Modern Christianity has become a crutch for those seeking retribution and vengence in general.
#34 | POSTED BY EARTHMUSE

Yeah it perfectly demonstrates Karl Popper's Paradox of Tolerance.

#35 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-01-29 08:59 PM | Reply

You people want Christians to be held to a high standard while you hold yourself to none.

Were that not the case you would be horrified by his wishing death on somebody else.

#36 | Posted by Tor at 2024-01-29 09:00 PM | Reply

"You people want Christians to be held to a high standard while you hold yourself to none."

Listen jagoff.

People who call themselves Christian have proclaimed the standard by which they want to be judged.

Now go get your shine box.

#37 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-01-29 09:10 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Atheists let people know they can't handle having standards.

Now go back to offering to blow legallyyourdead.

#38 | Posted by Tor at 2024-01-29 09:14 PM | Reply

"can't handle having standards"

My standard for belief is real simple, it's called empiricism.

#39 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-01-29 09:17 PM | Reply

That will get you into heaven for sure!

Here, let make it simple for you,
'Thou shall not kill'...

Funny that the bible didn't really mention
anything about exceptions for people who
were imprisoned.

#40 | Posted by earthmuse at 2024-01-29 09:19 PM | Reply

You're both changing the topic rather than admit outside of religion you have no grounds to object to a proven murderer being put down aside from those you people created to make it harder to executed even a known murderer.

You don't even have what it takes to admit one of your own was wrong to wish death on me but by golly you sure were fast to rush to his defense.

You don't have standards you have hobbies to help you forget your "trauma".

#41 | Posted by Tor at 2024-01-29 09:24 PM | Reply

And as to standards, I hold myself to my own high standards, thank you very much, and am more moral than you could possibly wrap your tiny brain around Tor.

I just don't believe that morality 'descends down from on high on some magical unicorn sprinkles or rainbow colored angel farts' is all...

Nope. Morality is one of the few truly good inventions of man. When it's not busy being co-opted by self-rightious religious twits. Such as yourself.

#42 | Posted by earthmuse at 2024-01-29 09:30 PM | Reply

"I hold myself to my own high standards"

Think about that statement if you can

You're serious?

#43 | Posted by eberly at 2024-01-29 09:37 PM | Reply

The last gasps of an alcoholic fool. Atta girl Beverly.

#44 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2024-01-29 10:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Yes Beverly, 'human standards'. A man is only as good as the
standards he sets for himself. But then again you aren't a man,
so probably wouldn't know.

I expect a lot from myself. Most days, I do okay.
Some days I do not. I always try to do better.
This is what it means to have personal standards,
to hold yourself to a higher level of functioning.

No crutch of a God to lean on. No excuses worth
uttering. No askance for mercy from the crowd.
Just a man and his pursuit of self-improvement.

You should try it some time.

#45 | Posted by earthmuse at 2024-01-30 06:29 AM | Reply

And as to the topic at hand.
Murder is wrong. Period.

Murdering a murderer,
just commits another murder.

What was that bit about
'Two wrongs don't make a right'?

Yeah. That thing...

#46 | Posted by earthmuse at 2024-01-30 06:32 AM | Reply

"I expect a lot from myself."

not here.

All you do here is crap in your hand and try to throw it at people while they attempt to discuss issues.

Your personal life can be quite different, I'm sure.

But you're never up for an on topic discussion here. Just crap throwing.

You should try it sometime.

#47 | Posted by eberly at 2024-01-30 08:46 AM | Reply

Execution isn't free.
It costs more than life in prison, actually.
Why should we pay more to execute Ted Bundy?

#16 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2024-01-29 03:54 PM | REPLY

Yes, but the "costs more" is highly situational.

Federally, if you want to hold that lifer, it's an average 40k per year, for 40 years, without adding inflation. So $1.6 million bucks pretending inflation isn't real. A Federal execution costs under a million. Holding them in isolated death row cells only costs double your typical prisoner kept in a 2 person cell. Dorm cells aren't for lifers and don't apply. The execution is cheap, it's the lockdown costs to the rest of the prison that add up. Just the boxed meals for locked down inmates cost $25k average. So the easy answer is make a separate death row prison that doesn't burden the main federal prisons with execution costs. For their to be savings without logistical changes, somebody has to step up and stab that guy to death over a debt dispute or something.

If it's clear they did it, just shoot them and be done with it. Bullets are cheap.

#48 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-01-30 09:35 AM | Reply

We pay for bridges to nowhere. We pay for all kinds of dumb ----.

"It costs more" is a poor argument to not put down a serial killing rapist.

#49 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-01-30 09:40 AM | Reply

and why not the other Ted? Murdered 3 people, injured 23 more with bombs.

He got to live in prison and be a quasi celebrity for 25 years before offing himself. He took that deal to get out of the death penalty.

Should have just shot him.

#50 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-01-30 09:43 AM | Reply

"It costs more" is a poor argument to not put down a serial killing rapist.

#49 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

Not when the premise of someones argument is that it's cheaper to execute than life in prison. There are moral ethical and constutreasons not to "put down" another human.

Yet these rights come at a cost. Ensuring that society's worst enjoy the same constitutional protections as everyone else is a difficult pill to swallow. Consider the right of the people to peacefully assemble, which allows abominations like the Klu Klux Klan or the Communist Party to parade down main street, spreading vile messages(76). Or like how affording Fifth Amendment Miranda rights to suspected criminals may allow incriminating confessions to be suppressed, thus letting undeserving criminals"who will likely commit other crimes"walk free(77). Yet "it is better to let the crime of a guilty person go unpunished than to condemn the innocent" because the reward far outstrips the cost.(78)

(76) See Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444, 447, 89 S.Ct. 1827, 23 L.Ed.2d 430 (1969); De Jonge v. Oregon, 299 U.S. 353, 364, 57 S.Ct. 255, 81 L.Ed. 278 (1937).

(77) Miranda v. Arizona, 384 U.S. 436, 86 S.Ct. 1602, 16 L.Ed.2d 694 (1966).

(78) Coffin v. United States, 156 U.S. 432, 454, 15 S.Ct. 394, 39 L.Ed. 481 (1895).

#51 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-01-30 10:30 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

constutreasons = constitutional reasons

#52 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-01-30 10:30 AM | Reply

There are moral ethical and constutreasons not to "put down" another human.

#51 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY AT 2024-01-30 10:30 AM | FLAG:

Constitution, no. I don't buy that for a second.

Ethical, again, no. You're not the better person for locking somebody in prison for 40 years instead of just shooting them.

#53 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-01-30 10:32 AM | Reply

No ambiguity in this case, nor either ted's, nor tim. No question of locking up the wrong person. Only question is do you lock them in hell for 40+ years until they kill themselves or die from disease, or just shoot them and be done with it. Just shoot them. This isn't a job creation program.

#54 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-01-30 10:35 AM | Reply

"You're not the better person for locking somebody in prison for 40 years instead of just shooting them."

You are if they're innocent.

I know a guy who was sentenced to life in prison in East Germany.

Hearing you say it's no different if they killed him, it just means you're a piece of ----.

Something wrong at home? You're a real piece of ---- lately.

#55 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-01-30 10:52 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

If the state is going to literally commit murder, using guns can be less cruel and unusual than currently predominating methods, but that presumes the bullets actually strike the inmate's heart and render them unconscious or dead immediately, which may not always be the case. The associated gore also has the potential to inflict additional harm on the executioner(s) and those cleaning up afterwards. I would propose some sort of robot that fires with enough accuracy to guarantee the first shot hits the heart, and some kind of robotic cleanup crew, to the extent that is possible.

Or we could just stop having government murder people.

#56 | Posted by JOE at 2024-01-30 11:01 AM | Reply

You are if they're innocent.

#55 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2024-01-30 10:52 AM | FLAG:

No ambiguity in this case, nor either ted's, nor tim.

#54 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG AT 2024-01-30 10:35 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

You keep deleting context to be binary. That's as dumb as paying the minimum on loans.

Which one of these were we wrong about? The murder for hire killer that was gassed here, Ted Bundy, Ted Kacyznski, or Timothy McVeigh?

#57 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-01-30 11:04 AM | Reply

"Constitution, no. I don't buy that for a second."

Even after I quoted the supreme court cases?

...

Ethical, again, no. You're not the better person for locking somebody in prison for 40 years instead of just shooting them.

#53 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

Your idea of "ethics" is obviously not the same as mine.

Yes. You are a better person if you don't have to seek Justice by lowering yourself to the level of a revenge killer. Not to mention that you are preventing the possibility of "accidentally " killing an innocent person. And it's more cost effective. Win-win-win.

#58 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-01-30 11:39 AM | Reply

Which one of these were we wrong about? The murder for hire killer that was gassed here, Ted Bundy, Ted Kacyznski, or Timothy McVeigh?

#57 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

Define "wrong".

It's morally and ethically and financially wrong. (I will concede that it's not prohibited by the constitution. Yet. )

How is it right?

#59 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-01-30 11:54 AM | Reply

"No ambiguity in this case"

You're making policy based on one case?

You know what the error bar is on a sample size of one?

#60 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-01-30 01:23 PM | Reply

#47 | Posted by eberly

LOL!!!

Pot calls kettle "black".

#61 | Posted by Angrydad at 2024-01-30 02:35 PM | Reply

Pro death Christians who claim this is a nation based on Judeo-Christian values need to ask themselves, Who would Jesus execute?

#62 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-01-30 02:49 PM | Reply

"It costs more" is a poor argument to not put down a serial killing rapist.
#49 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

Any policy argument built around a single event, when there are tens of thousands of such events, is a hyper-emotional argument made by a statistically illiterate Deplorable.

#63 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-01-30 02:53 PM | Reply

Your idea of "ethics" is obviously not the same as mine.

#58 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY AT 2024-01-30 11:39 AM | FLAG:

Murder people for money, wacked out ideology, sex perversions, and it's clear you did it, society should kill you off with haste, dispose of the body and move on. We don't need that person around, and keeping them in a cell until they die is worse than just shooting them. If there's some ambiguity, don't shoot them. There's little ambiguity in most cases and certainly not the one that caused this thread, nor any of the ones Snoofy refuses to even speculate on whom of them might be innocent because he knows how absurd that position is.

You, are an actual government trained killer, trained for the specific purpose of killing people you've never met for propagandized foreign policy objectives. Ethics conversations with Marines is always fun but we won't see eye to eye on some of it.

#64 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-01-30 03:04 PM | Reply

"Murder people for money, wacked out ideology, sex perversions, and it's clear you did it, society should kill you off with haste, dispose of the body and move on."

Republicans can always find reasons to kill people.

Republicans who support killing people are convinced they are morally superior to people who... checks notes... kill people.

They believe it's immoral to not kill certain people.

It probably explains why there's so much more gun violence in Red states.

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-01-30 03:12 PM | Reply

"There's little ambiguity in most cases"

Acceptable losses in the handful of other cases.

You're fine with killing innocent people.

#66 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-01-30 03:13 PM | Reply

"There's little ambiguity in most cases and certainly not the one that caused this thread"

There's zero ambiguity that the way Republicans killed him was purposefully slow and painful.

Just the way Republicans like it.

#67 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-01-30 03:16 PM | Reply

If there's some ambiguity, don't shoot them.

The standard for any criminal conviction in the first place is no reasonable doubt. Are you suggesting there is room for some higher standard to impose the death penalty and if so what is it?

#68 | Posted by JOE at 2024-01-30 03:16 PM | Reply

#68. He's not able to discuss the actual legal framework.

It's all part of the murder fantasies Republicans have going on continuously in their inner monologue.

#69 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-01-30 03:20 PM | Reply

Are you suggesting there is room for some higher standard to impose the death penalty and if so what is it?

#68 | POSTED BY JOE AT 2024-01-30 03:16 PM | FLAG:

www.ojp.gov

#70 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-01-30 03:20 PM | Reply

"The revelation of erroneous convictions in death penalty cases over the past few years has set off a renewed interest in reducing the possibility of such errors."

Not among Republicans it hadn't.

The only Republican to do this was George Ryan in Illinois in 2000.

Those kinds of men are no longer welcome in the GOP.

#71 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-01-30 03:24 PM | Reply

You, are an actual government trained killer, trained for the specific purpose of killing people you've never met for propagandized foreign policy objectives. Ethics conversations with Marines is always fun but we won't see eye to eye on some of it.

#64 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

Former Marine. I got promoted to Citizen.

And yes I was trained to kill. And I was willing to do so if my country required it of me. Without question. At that time in my life. (Fortunately I never had to make that decision as to whether I would pull the trigger or not)

But then. I began to question. And I learned better.

#72 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-01-30 03:25 PM | Reply

More from #70: "Lastly, the article examines the implementation of a higher standard of proof in capital cases and argues that the proposals set forth thus far are likely to have little or no effect in real world cases."

"likely to have little or no effect"

#73 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-01-30 03:27 PM | Reply

I oppose the death penalty.

Here is an exception:

" Man arrested for filming himself, six others gang-raping two toddlers in mall bathroom"

www.wionews.com

#74 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-01-30 03:29 PM | Reply

It's called Absolute Certainty, and it can be applied despite critiques of it.

If you suspect a guy of murdering a bunch of people, catch them, and they tell you where they put the bodies, and you go find the bodies there, and the guys ---- is in what's left of the bodies, you were right and now you've achieved Absolute Certainty. Ted Bundy much?

If you have a guy on death row, and all you have is a second hand story from a prison snitch, and a paid police informant also repeating a story, and a murder weapon that has a "DNA profile" similar but not specifically matching the person you suspect, but you can't find any other physical evidence what so ever, you don't have Absolute Certainty. There's a guy sitting on Death Row in Missouri convicted under those grounds. His life or death depends on whether or not that state governor decides to dissolve the council looking into it.

#75 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-01-30 03:30 PM | Reply

"I oppose the death penalty."

No, JeffJ, you really don't, because your very next statement is in support of the death penalty.

You lie to yourself (and us) constantly. You don't even realize you're doing it.

It's among your most Deplorable qualities.

#76 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-01-30 03:32 PM | Reply

"It's called Absolute Certainty, and it can be applied despite critiques of it."

It "can" be.

But where is it actually being applied?
Only in your killing people fantasies.
Also, your own link says it wouldn't really change anything.

#77 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-01-30 03:34 PM | Reply

Not among Republicans it hadn't.

Florida's made it so that you don't need a unanimous verdict for the state to kill someone. In Florida all it takes is 2/3rds of the jury to vote for the death penalty. Oh, and under Governor DeathSentence and the --- measuring contest between him and Abbott (TX) and other GOP Govs executions are back in style with the MAGATs:

"TALLAHASSEE (2023) " The number of executions nationwide ticked upwards to 24 this year, in part because of Gov. Ron DeSantis' signing of six death warrants in Florida while he campaigns for president."

Abbott had 8 for 2023. That means Abbott and DeSantis, in two states out of 50, accounted for 60% of the executions. And of course Abbott stopped all rape in Texas while he was at it. /s.

#78 | Posted by YAV at 2024-01-30 03:34 PM | Reply

I'll even make it personal. One of the bridesmaids at my wedding was murdered. It's a First 48 episode. 4 young men kicked down the door of a grandmother's house and when she confronted them, the only one with a gun murdered her rather than fight a 50 year old, bat armed grandmother so they could rob the house.

Of the 4, 3 were given life sentences, the 4th snitched on the rest and got 20 years. There is Absolute Certainty about who pulled the trigger. That guy should have gone on death row. There's no ethical value in keeping him in a state prison for 40-50 years. There's no "oh we might have got it wrong!".

#79 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-01-30 03:37 PM | Reply

"We don't need that person around, and keeping them in a cell until they die is worse than just shooting them."

It's worse for them. Not for me or you in any way.

Putting the whole issue of our failed penal colony prison system aside and what it does to humans who work there ... How does keeping vicious criminals that you describe penned up and off the streets forever harm the rest of society?

And why on earth would you want to let them have an easy way out?

Death is the easy way out ... they should sit in prison with their own kind and stew in their own juices as long as possible until the bitter end. Plus they need that time to find Jesus in there. We know he's in there somewhere. Everyone seems to find Jesus (or Allah) in prison if they are in there long enough.

#80 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-01-30 03:38 PM | Reply

But where is it actually being applied?

#77 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2024-01-30 03:34 PM | FLAG:

Not my fault we're too stupid as a people to do it.

#81 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-01-30 03:38 PM | Reply

"Absolute Certainty. Ted Bundy much?"

The resources spent slurping up Ted Bundy's ---- off a dead sorority girl's ass are better spent tracking down an active serial killer. Not fetishizing the work of one we've already got locked in a cage.

Opportunity Cost is a thing. You know it, but choose to ignore in your bloodlust.

Someone you care about got murdered, seems to be the part of you that's talking to us right now.

#82 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-01-30 03:40 PM | Reply

Not my fault we're too stupid as a people to do it.
#81 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

It is your fault that you are too stupid to deal in reality.

#83 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-01-30 03:41 PM | Reply

All of a sudden Snoofy is fiscally conservative. Bitch please lol.

#84 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-01-30 03:41 PM | Reply

#70 Cool link, can you explain how or why it supports whatever position you're taking here?

#85 | Posted by JOE at 2024-01-30 03:44 PM | Reply

Not my fault we're too stupid as a people to do it.

#81 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

So you admit then that we are too stupid as a people to play God yet?

Thank you. I agree.

#86 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-01-30 03:46 PM | Reply

Snoofy would probably jury vote 6 months probation for the 7 men who gang raped two toddlers.

He probably thinks those toddlers' onesies weren't snapped properly so they were showing too much skin.

#87 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-01-30 03:46 PM | Reply

I've always been fiscally conservative. Though the cost difference between death penalty vs life in prison isn't one you can build a fiscally conservative society on.

Single payer universal coverage is the fiscally conservative approach to insuring a nations health. That's real fiscal conservatism.

You're smart enough to know that too, but you seem to be so starved for dopamine you have to hit us with the Dumb Blonde Act because you think it owns the libs.

#88 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-01-30 03:50 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

So you admit then that we are too stupid as a people to play God yet?

#86 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY AT 2024-01-30 03:46 PM | FLAG:

You're reading that wrong.

#89 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-01-30 03:50 PM | Reply

Not my fault we're too stupid as a people to do it.
#81 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

So you admit then that we are too stupid as a people to play God yet?
Thank you. I agree.
#86 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

Owned.

#90 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-01-30 03:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

the libs.

#88 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2024-01-30 03:50 PM | FLAG:

Very few liberals here. Mostly statists.

#91 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-01-30 03:52 PM | Reply

The guy begging for a New, Improved Death Penalty calling me a Statist...

You can't make this stuff up, folks!

#92 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-01-30 03:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

More like revision to a flawed one.

You shouldn't lock people up longer than it takes you to pay off your student loan debt. That's less moral than just shooting them. Don't you know our prisons are hell?

#93 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-01-30 04:05 PM | Reply

"You shouldn't lock people up longer than it takes you to pay off your student loan debt."

Let everyone out after 25 years, like student loans?

#94 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-01-30 04:10 PM | Reply

Don't you know our prisons are hell?
#93 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

Sounds like a good argument for improving prison conditions. If we can't make our prisons preferable to being murdered, what does that say about us as a society?

#95 | Posted by JOE at 2024-01-30 04:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Sitz does make a few points.
Is it more ethical to make someone set in prison for decades
or to take them out quickly? These are tough questions.

I do know that the method they have devised here for killing
people is far more barbaric than simply shooting them.

Whatever happened to the old firing squad? Why so much angst
against it?

Don't get me wrong. Still think murder is wrong, but if you have
to take someone else's life, you would think the quickest, least painful,
and least expensive methods would move to the top of the list of choice
alternatives...

#96 | Posted by earthmuse at 2024-01-31 07:01 AM | Reply

Is it more ethical to make someone set in prison for decades
or to take them out quickly? These are tough questions.

I think it is our duty, as an allegedly first world society, to make certain that the answer to that question is emphatically "prison." It is unconscionable that we are even confronted with an ethical dilemma over whether the government should just murder someone because our prisons are that bad.

#97 | Posted by JOE at 2024-01-31 09:49 AM | Reply

Ask this man: Archie Williams

#98 | Posted by YAV at 2024-01-31 03:26 PM | Reply

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