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Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, February 19, 2024

Denmark has pledged its "entire artillery" stocks to Ukraine, the country's leader has said, as Kyiv issued renewed pleas for all-important military aid in the face of Russian gains in the east of the country.

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"There is still ammunition in stock in Europe," Frederiksen said. "This is not only a question about production, because we have weapons, we have ammunition, we have air defense [systems] that we don't have to use ourself at the moment, that we should deliver to Ukraine."

Kyiv's presidential office said on Saturday that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky had met with Frederiksen, and thanked the Danish leader for the more than dozen packages of defense assistance Copenhagen had committed to the embattled nation.

The two leaders "paid special attention to further defense support for our country, bilateral cooperation and cooperation with other countries to provide Ukraine with the necessary weapons," Kyiv said.

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"Ukraine needs ammunition and the necessary equipment to defend its freedom," Czech President Petr Pavel added during the Munich conference. "We must encourage investment in the European defense industry and increase its capacity," he said.

Zelensky, also in Munich, said Ukrainian operations were only limited by its access to weaponry and ammunition.

"Keeping Ukraine in an artificial deficit of weapons, particularly in deficit of artillery and long-range capabilities, allows [Russian President Vladimir] Putin to adapt to the current intensity of the war," Zelensky said in an address."

#1 | Posted by Corky at 2024-02-18 07:55 PM | Reply

Let's talk about Denmark leading when the US wouldn't....

Beau of the Fifth Column

www.youtube.com

#2 | Posted by Corky at 2024-02-18 10:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It not an artificial deficit of weapons if they can't manufacture their own supplies.

Ukraine is No Match for Russia. Without endless financial and military support they are hopelessly outmatched.

Them lasting as long as they have is what's artificial,not them falling behind and losing.

Without boots on the ground,feeding this is just prolonging the killing and destruction.

NATO should either Man up and send troops or just back off.

Given the extreme distaste for human losses in the West, negotiation with Russia to end this is the best option.

Feeding a needless slaughter is just stupid.

#3 | Posted by Effeteposer at 2024-02-19 02:10 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Let's talk about Denmark leading when the US wouldn't....

That was a good talk. The whole need for artillery ammo kind of surprised me. Not so much that Ukraine needs it, but how little the West actually produces and stockpiles. The US generally uses air power rather than artillery so it's not a surprise that they don't have a bazillion rounds of 155 piled up. I read the General Dynamics plant that makes 155 shells cranks out less than 100 per month. Ukraine was firing 6000 per day. Putin and his buddies have always been big on artillery so they have/had a massive stockpile of ammo. I wonder how their supply of barrels is holding up?

#4 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-02-19 02:37 AM | Reply

Kudos to Denmark, stepping in when the US is stymied by reps bought off by the Russians

#5 | Posted by hamburglar at 2024-02-19 04:31 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 6

HAMBURGLER

It's the GOP that sold out to Russians. Trump was just the messenger boy, water carrier and psychopathic muscle man. The GOP built themself a monster which has now turned on them like a Hollywood horror movie. So, no surprise to anyone, now Russia has them both over a barrel.

America has one last chance in November 2024 to break the back of this bloodless coup. There will be no other chances after that ~ NONE!

#6 | Posted by Twinpac at 2024-02-19 06:40 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

Denmark gets it.

The Danes are better Americans than MAGA.

#7 | Posted by Zed at 2024-02-19 07:44 AM | Reply

- Feeding a needless slaughter is just stupid.

Fortunately, what France never said about the American Revolution.

#8 | Posted by Corky at 2024-02-19 10:19 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

Ukraine is No Match for Russia. Without endless financial and military support they are hopelessly outmatched.

It's been 2 years since the beginnings of Pooty's Soecial Operation and Russia has been harassing Ukrainians since 2014.

So why doesn't Russia control all of Ukraine by now? Ukraine is no match for Russia! it's hopeless!

Did you know? At one time America was no match for Great Britain either.

That's why countries ally with and help and support each other.

#9 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-02-19 11:07 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The Danes are better Americans than MAGA.

They also celebrate the 4th of July in honor of their WW2 liberation.

#10 | Posted by mattm at 2024-02-19 11:26 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

All 3 shells.

Denmark NATO spending is a pittance.

#11 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-02-19 12:09 PM | Reply

It's the thought that counts.... and the stepping into the leadership void created by Trumpers.

#12 | Posted by Corky at 2024-02-19 12:11 PM | Reply

Denmark NATO spending is a pittance.

#11 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

Denmark has pledged to spend 2% of its GDP.

"But in response to the Ukraine crisis, it pledged last year to permanently increase spending on defence and security to 2% of gross domestic product by the end of 2030, a key goal for NATO member states."

#13 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-02-19 12:18 PM | Reply

"A founding member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, Denmark scaled back its military capabilities after the end of the Cold War in the early 1990s and has acknowledged major shortcomings in the ability to defend its territory and meet NATO commitments."

www.reuters.com

Unfortunately many countries relaxed and dropped their guard and reduced their defense budgets after the Berlin Wall came down.

Just as Pooty planned or hoped.

Apparently.

#14 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-02-19 12:23 PM | Reply

Denmark has pledged to spend 2% of its GDP.

#13 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY AT 2024-02-19 12:18 PM | REPLY

If they had met their NATO obligations you wouldn't have to post them eventually catching up to them, and I wouldn't have jokes to make about their tiny contribution.

#15 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-02-19 02:53 PM | Reply

"All 3 shells.
Denmark NATO spending is a pittance.
#11 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG AT 2024-02-19 12:09 PM"

"With the EU's promise of delivering 1 million shells to Ukraine by March only halfway met, Denmark's contribution, valued at 8.4 billion in military aid, marks a significant bolstering of Ukraine's artillery capabilities. The Czech Republic, too, is stepping up, offering 800,000 shells to aid Ukraine's military efforts."

bnnbreaking.com

I suspect Ukraine will be delighted to accept the 8.4 billion (approximately nine billion USD) "pittance".

#16 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2024-02-19 04:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I'm sure they will, but $8 billion only buys you 8 days of combat.

#17 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-02-19 04:15 PM | Reply

"I'm sure they will, but $8 billion only buys you 8 days of combat.
#17 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG AT 2024-02-19 04:15 PM"

It would depend upon what makes up the $9 billion (BTW, it's 8.4 billion Euros, which is a little over 9 billion USD) in military aid. It's not simply cash. As such, some things can not be had for any amount of money in a timely manner.

Serious questions:
1. How did you arrive at the "8 days of combat" estimate?
2. How does Ukraine continue combat for almost two years with an annual military budget of only about $40 billion? Seems $9 billion would result in months of combat rather than only 8 days.

#18 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2024-02-19 04:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So , 10 bullets?

#19 | Posted by BellRinger at 2024-02-19 06:58 PM | Reply

Serious questions:
1. How did you arrive at the "8 days of combat" estimate?
2. How does Ukraine continue combat for almost two years with an annual military budget of only about $40 billion?

#18 | POSTED BY TRUEBLUE AT 2024-02-19 04:41 PM | REPLY

1- I'm a logistics nerd and that's best estimates I can find of what this war costs per day to prosecute, per side. The high side is a billion, the low side is $500 million. A lot depends on the weather where the combat intensity is a lot higher and drones are everywhere spotting artillery.

2- Having friends will get you far. Poland donated most of their military to Ukraine. The US is at least $45 billion into this war. Javelins work really, really well. DPICM works really, really well.

That's the knock on the NATO members now sending gear and ramping spending. The lag time to get something as seemingly straightforward as artillery shell production into gear is significant and can lose a proxy war like this.

#20 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-02-19 08:13 PM | Reply

It's a wild situation to be in. Ukraine is suffering artillery shell starvation at the front and sometimes the Russians shoot 7 to 10 shells to 1. That's while getting aid from 45 countries.

#21 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-02-19 08:20 PM | Reply

Apart from cheap off the shelf goods being retrofit into home brew weapons systems - Ukraine has basically zero defense industrial base left standing nowadays, right?

#22 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2024-02-19 08:43 PM | Reply

Those cost estimates are high even if one considers just what the conflict is costing Russia.

www.defensenews.com's,war%20has%20had%20on%20Moscow.

The Pentagon estimates Russia's cost is closer to $300M per day and that's likely a large number because many armored vehicles ("tanks") being "disposed of" due to poor planning, poor logistics, and poor leadership/strategy. Also, there are major bites from losing battleships. Ukraine has lost little of its navy (LOL) and has made much better/judicious use of their armored vehicles. To claim Ukraine is spending close to what the Russian's are spending simply is not supported by the evidence. Feel free to provide contrary evidence.

To be sure, Ukraine is heavily relying on support from allies and that no doubt makes them able to prosecute this war "on a shoestring". That said, Ukraine has a distinct advantage of fighting on their own turf (cue Napoleon and the Nazis attempting to defeat Russia in the last two centuries, Persia attacking Greece over two millennia ago, etc.). It's true that logistics is what wins wars, but Russia has not (yet) shown that it is in command of its logistics. No doubt, Russia has "deeper pockets" than Ukraine, but their pockets definitely have holes.

#23 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2024-02-19 10:44 PM | Reply

Feel free to provide contrary evidence.

#23 | POSTED BY TRUEBLUE AT 2024-02-19 10:44 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

It's not really contrary. More like some missing Excel fields. The Pentagon is lowballing it by not including the debt Russia is accruing to finance their war.

#24 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-02-20 08:55 AM | Reply

"It's not really contrary. More like some missing Excel fields. The Pentagon is lowballing it by not including the debt Russia is accruing to finance their war.
#24 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG AT 2024-02-20 08:55 AM"

The amount of increased debt, and more importantly the cost of servicing that increased debt, has had little impact on Russia's GDP and only slightly adjusts the numbers claimed by the Pentagon. Russia is actually facing greater problems due to the sanctions limiting their exports and an overheated economy due to increased spending on military production. Likely due to the size of Russia's economy, these detrimental factors have taken awhile to have much effect.

www.statista.com

BTW, none of this addresses the previous claim that the cost for prosecuting the Russian-Ukraine conflict is the same for Ukraine nor the claim $9 billion in military aid only finances 8 days of engagement.

#25 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2024-02-20 11:06 AM | Reply

BTW, none of this addresses the previous claim that the cost for prosecuting the Russian-Ukraine conflict is the same for Ukraine nor the claim $9 billion in military aid only finances 8 days of engagement.

#25 | POSTED BY TRUEBLUE AT 2024-02-20 11:06 AM | REPLY

It's a bit of sarcasm. Denmark doesn't have enough 155mm left in inventory to sustain 8 days of firing at Ukraine's consumption rate.

Denmark sent the Caesar's last April.

#26 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-02-20 12:11 PM | Reply

Russian cost to service their debt doubled, and it's going to go away up as they keep having to dig a deeper hole.

#27 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2024-02-20 12:12 PM | Reply

That might be true about the supply of 155mm shells, but it's not what was claimed.
The new location of the goalposts duly noted.

Russian debt service didn't double, but then again it would depend upon which time period is compared to which time period. Even if one "selectively" chooses to compare two time periods to bolster this claim, it's still a small factor compared to Russia's economy (this situation and future estimates was already addressed in my previous message).

I think we are in agreement that the Russian economic situation (in general) and in relation to the cost of continuing the Ukraine conflict (specifically) is not beneficial for Russia's future. BTW, this is completely ignoring the social impact Russia has (and will have) of permanently losing 100's of thousands of young men (both to casualties and migration). Combine that with increasing economic pressures: it doesn't bode well for Russia's political stability. Prudent governments should begin preparing for the effects of that eventuality.

#28 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2024-02-20 01:11 PM | Reply

If they had met their NATO obligations you wouldn't have to post them eventually catching up to them, and I wouldn't have jokes to make about their tiny contribution.

#15 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

I won't make jokes about your tiny contributions.

Also not all economies are as strong as ours.

If the world's economies hadn't been devastated by Covid maybe they could have afforded more. (Also if a frog had wings it wouldn't bump it's ass.)

And they were obviously lulled into a false sense of security by the end of the Cold War and probably as planned by Pootin's Russia.

Also we could easily fund much of the war by confiscating Russians frozen assets which amount to over $300 billion dollars. That would be some sweet sweet pownage. If we had a functional Congress that is.

#29 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-02-20 01:29 PM | Reply

confiscating Russians frozen assets

Would destroy confidence in usd assets permanently.

#30 | Posted by libs_of_dr at 2024-02-20 09:09 PM | Reply

In January us issued treasuries to pay interest on us treasuries.
Imagine having to charge your credit card interest on another credit card.

#31 | Posted by libs_of_dr at 2024-02-20 09:12 PM | Reply

Denmark woman leader should send her troops to Ukraine too, since they're not using them right now. They've never paid their share, and now they don't even have any artillery to support NATO if needed. Let's say that your car insurance is 2% of your pay- that's a week's pay, per year, for your insurance. If you have an accident, and haven't paid your 2%, would you expect your insurance to provide coverage?

#32 | Posted by libs_of_dr at 2024-02-20 09:18 PM | Reply

"If you have an accident"

If your neighbor's house catches on fire, and it's threatening to catch your house on fire, you wouldn't want to put out the fire, just to protect your own interests?

You'd let the whole neighborhood burn, because of one lousy neighbor.

And it wouldn't be an accident.

#33 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-02-20 09:27 PM | Reply

#29 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

Its not a funding problem really, its a manufacturing problem.

The West just can't supply enough armament to keep up, let alone keep its own supply should a war elsewhere break out.

Russian manufacturers are making up to 7 times as much ammunition as Western arms makers, Estonian defense official says
www.businessinsider.com

#34 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-02-20 11:02 PM | Reply

If your neighbor's house catches on fire, and it's threatening to catch your house on fire, you wouldn't want to put out the fire, just to protect your own interests?
~ Snoofy

What if your neighbor on the other side, of your house also catches on fire?

You don't manufacture enough for both, where are you going to spend your resources?

#35 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-02-20 11:03 PM | Reply

Sounds like the Czech Republic's offer of 800,000 shells will be very helpful for Ukraine.

#36 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2024-02-20 11:07 PM | Reply

"Last March, Army Undersecretary Gabe Camarillo upped the target slightly, announcing plans to produce 24,000 rounds a month by year's end.

The Army hit the target early, then exceeded it, producing 28,000 shells in October. At least some of those shells went right out the door to Ukraine, Army acquisition secretary Doug Bush told reporters in a media roundtable in November. He declined to say just how many.

Bush said the service now aims to boost its monthly production to 36,000 by March, 60,000 by September, 70,000 to 80,000 in early 2025, and 100,000 by the end of calendar 2025 " two and half times more than Wormuth's year-old goal.

As part of this push, the Army has added shifts, bought robots, and expanded its ammunition plants, Bush said"

www.defenseone.com

The shortage is temporary.

#37 | Posted by Corky at 2024-02-20 11:09 PM | Reply

Putin is this age's Adolf Hitler.

By the time of the Munich Olympics, nearly every freedom-loving government understood that Nazi Germany had to be destroyed if a balance and peace were to be restored. A bellicose and jingoistic Russia with dreams of an expanded klepto-Fascist empire is no different.

In order for Russia to become a member of the civilized modern world, Putin's Mafia-modeled dictatorship must be upended in one way or another. Otherwise Russia's fascist kleptocracy will use all means it has to destabilize NATO and pluralistic governments wherever it can and strive to absorb Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan into its "empire" and to make vassal states of Belarus, Ukraine and Moldova. Poland, the Baltic States, Slovakia and Hungary are all in Putin's sights as well.

A number of European historians now feel the threat of Putin's emboldened fascist dictatorship to what has been a stable free world. They believe Putin and his jingoist war bloggers must not be appeased.

#38 | Posted by Augustine at 2024-02-21 06:26 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

www.newstatesman.com

What Mearscheimer gets wrong about Ukraine.

#39 | Posted by Augustine at 2024-02-21 06:58 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

They believe Putin and his jingoist war bloggers must not be appeased.

#38 | POSTED BY AUGUSTINE

The last time we appeased a facist dictator we had to engage in a world war to finally put him in his place. (Hell)

#40 | Posted by donnerboy at 2024-02-21 02:34 PM | Reply

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