Tucker Carlson: Moscow So Much Nicer Than Any City in My Country

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fee.org - Joseph Goebbels' Own Words Show He Loved Socialism and Saw It as 'the Future'.
Socialists will continue to argue that Nazism was not "real" socialism, but the Nazi [short for National Socialist German Workers Party / Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or NSDAP] propaganda despised capitalism and spoke like Karl Marx. - Monday, January 23, 2023

|----- One of the comforts of growing older is knowing that some things will never change. ... And the trumpets will sound at the Second Coming before capitalists and socialists agree on whether the Nazis were "really socialists."

The last item has always puzzled me, I confess, and not just because the word is right there in the name: National Socialism. If you read the speeches and private conversations of the Nazi hierarchy, it's clear they loved socialism and despised individualism and capitalism.

In his new book Hitler's National Socialism, the historian Rainer Zitelmann gives a penetrating look into the ideas that shaped men like Hitler and Goebbels. While it's clear they saw their own brand of socialism as distinct from Marxism (more on that later), there is no question they saw socialism as the future and despised bourgeoisie capitalism. ***

... These quotes represent just a smattering of Goebbels' views on and conception of socialism. One can see that in many ways the Nazi spoke much like Karl Marx.

Phrases like "we are a workers' party," "the worker has a claim to a living standard that corresponds to what he produces," "money... is the reverse with socialism," and "we are against the political bourgeoisie" could easily be plucked from Marx's own speeches and writings " yet it's clear Goebbels despised Marx and saw his brand of "national socialism" as distinct from Marxism.

So what sets National Socialism apart from Marxism? There are two primary differences.

The first is that Hitler and Goebbels fused their socialism with race and German nationalism, rejecting the international ethos of Marxism " workers of the world unite! " for a more practical one that emphasized Germany's Vlkischen movement.

This was a clever tactic by the Nazis. As the Nobel Prize-winning economist F.A. Hayek pointed out, it made socialism more palatable to many Germans who were unable to see Nazism for what it truly was.

"The supreme tragedy is still not seen that in Germany it was largely people of good will who, by their socialist policies, prepared the way for the forces which stand for everything they detest," Hayek wrote in The Road to Serfdom (1944). "Few recognize that the rise of fascism... was not a reaction against the socialist trends of the preceding period but a necessary outcome of those tendencies."

The second difference is that National Socialists were less concerned with directly controlling the means of production.
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"We are socialists because we see in socialism, that is the union of all citizens, the only chance to maintain our racial inheritance and to regain our political freedom and renew our German state" - Joseph Goebbels (1928)

"Fascism is the stage reached after communism has proved an illusion..." - Friedrich A. von Hayek

The main difference between fascism and communism is that communism required "total ownership of means of production" and fascism required "total control of means of production" - but both are socialist totalitarian (government above individual) regimes.

Nowadays we see it (fascism) in Vladimir Putin's imperial Russia and Xi Jinping's "communist" China.
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***
|----- Consider, for example, these quotes from Joseph Goebbels, the chief propagandist for the Nazi Party:

"Socialism is the ideology of the future." - Letter to Ernst Graf zu Reventlow as quoted in Goebbels: A Biography

"The bourgeoisie has to yield to the working class ... Whatever is about to fall should be pushed. We are all soldiers of the revolution. We want the workers' victory over filthy lucre. That is socialism." -quoted in Doctor Goebbels: His Life and Death

"We are socialists, because we see in socialism, that means, in the fateful dependence of all folk comrades upon each other, the sole possibility for the preservation of our racial genetics and thus the re-conquest of our political freedom and for the rejuvenation of the German state. - "Why We Are Socialists?" Der Angriff (The Attack ), July 16, 1928

"We are not a charitable institution but a Party of revolutionary socialists." -Der Angriff editorial, May 27, 1929
"Capitalism assumes unbearable forms at the moment when the personal purposes that it serves run contrary to the interest of the overall folk. It then proceeds from things and not from people. Money is then the axis around which everything revolves. It is the reverse with socialism. The socialist worldview begins with the folk and then goes over to things. Things are made subservient to the folk; the socialist puts the folk above everything, and things are only means to an end." -"Capitalism," Der Angriff, July 15, 1929

"In 1918 there was only one task for the German socialist: to keep the weapons and defend German socialism." -"Capitalism," Der Angriff, July 15, 1929

"To be a socialist means to let the ego serve the neighbour, to sacrifice the self for the whole. In its deepest sense socialism equals service." - diary notes (1926)

"The lines of German socialism are sharp, and our path is clear. We are against the political bourgeoisie, and for genuine nationalism! We are against Marxism, but for true socialism!" - Those Damn Nazis: Why Are We Socialists? (1932)

"We are socialists because we see the social question as a matter of necessity and justice for the very existence of a state for our people, not a question of cheap pity or insulting sentimentality. The worker has a claim to a living standard that corresponds to what he produces." - Those Damn Nazis: Why Are We Socialists? (1932)

"England is a capitalist democracy. Germany is a socialist people's state." - "Englands Schuld" (the speech is not dated, but likely was given in 1939)

"Because we are socialists we have felt the deepest blessings of the nation, and because we are nationalists we want to promote socialist justice in a new Germany." - Die verfluchten Hakenkreuzler. Etwas zum Nachdenken (1932)

"The sin of liberal thinking was to overlook socialism's nation-building strengths, thereby allowing its energies to go in anti-national directions." - Die verfluchten Hakenkreuzler. Etwas zum Nachdenken (1932)

"To be a socialist is to submit the I to the thou; socialism is sacrificing the individual to the whole. Socialism is in its deepest sense service." - as quoted in Escape from Freedom, Erich Fromm

"We are a workers' party because we see in the coming battle between finance and labor the beginning and the end of the structure of the twentieth century. We are on the side of labor and against finance. . . The value of labor under socialism will be determined by its value to the state, to the whole community."-Those Damn Nazis: Why Are We Socialists? (1932)

These quotes represent just a smattering of Goebbels' views on and conception of socialism. One can see that in many ways the Nazi spoke much like Karl Marx. ...
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#45 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-02-17 04:07 PM |
Why is it that idiots like you think they know things about things they know nothing about?

Simple explanation?
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble - it's what you know that just ain't so" - Mark -----
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@#43 ... I say "was" because, outside of a handful of extremists, neither socialism nor communism is recognized as a valid economic system. ...

Yet your comments here on this most august site have seemed to dwell excessively upon socialism as some evil being wrought upon the United States by Democrats?

So, what is it?

Is socialism just proffered by a handful of extremists, or is socialism an evil wrought by Democrats?

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www.vaholocaust.org - "25 points of Nazi Party" - "National Socialistic Yearbook 1941" - Published by: Central Publishing House of N.S.D.A.P. - The program of the NSDAP [PDF]

|-------
The program is the political foundation of the NSDAP and accordingly the primary political law of the State. It has been made brief and clear intentionally. ...

Since the taking over of control, the Fuehrer has succeeded in the realization of essential portions of the Party program from the fundamentals to the detail.

The Party Program of the NSDAP was proclaimed on the 24 February 1920 by Adolf Hitler ... and since that day has remained unaltered. Within the national socialist philosophy is summarized in 25 points:
...

3. We demand land and territory (colonies) for the sustenance of our people, and colonization for our surplus population.

4. 4. Only a member of the race can be a citizen. A member of the race can only be one who is of German blood, without consideration of creed. Consequently no Jew can be a member of the race.

7. We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. ...

10. The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically.**

11. Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery.

13. We demand the nationalization of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).

14. We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.

15. We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.

17. We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.***

19. We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order.

20. The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. ... The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbuergerkunde] ...

21. The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness...

22. We demand abolition of the mercenary troops and formation of a national army.

23. We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press. ...

24. We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race. The Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and around us...: common utility precedes individual utility.

25. For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general. ...

*** Adolf Hitler proclaimed the following explanation for this program on the 13 April 1928:
Regarding the false interpretations of Point 17... the following definition is necessary:
"...land which has been illegally acquired or is not administered from the viewpoint of the national welfare. This is directed primarily against the Jewish land-speculation companies."
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** "He who does not work shall not eat" - V. I. Lenin and the Bible.
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@#54

... and your point is.... what?

The Nazis Weren't Socialists " They Were Hypercapitalists

AN INTERVIEW WITH
ISHAY LANDA

Right-wingers love to insist that members of Adolf Hitler's party were socialists. But Nazism's real economic policies upheld hypercapitalist principles rooted in social Darwinist ideas about the value of human life. They weren't socialists at all.

In 2009, Israeli historian Ishay Landa published the book The Apprentice's Sorcerer: Liberal Tradition and Fascism, an extensive study of the economic and social interests the Nazis really pursued.

In this interview with Jacobin, he explains what the term "socialism" meant to Hitler, how his political and economic views were connected " and why we can see the dangers of economic liberalism in Elon Musk today.

jacobin.com

MadBomber doesn't believe trans women when they say they are women.

But he does believe Nazis when they say they're socialist.

It's funny like Anne Frank is funny.

"But he does believe Nazis when they say they're socialist."

Well, in his defense, MB also believes North Korea is Democratic, and all of Saddam's guards were Republicans.

It's in the name!

"Right-wingers love to insist that members of Adolf Hitler's party were socialists."

It's important to point out they're morons. Hitler either assassinated or jailed Socialist leaders when he took power, and governed as a Socialist exactly ZERO days.

Remember when the Third Reich was all about returning the control of production to the workers?

NEITHER DOES ANYONE ELSE.

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#60 | Posted by Danforth at 2024-02-17 10:58 PM
Hitler either assassinated or jailed Socialist leaders when he took power

A version of "power-sharing" of right-wing Socialists (Nazi party) vs several German left-wing Communist/Socialist parties, similar to "power-sharing" version of Russian Bolsheviks (far-left faction of the original Marxist Russian Social Democratic Labour Party [RSDLP] - Lenin, Stalin, Dzerzhinsky, et al) which relied on small class of intelligentsia and eventually outlawed and eliminated Russian more bourgeois-socialist Mensheviks faction of the same RSDLP party (Axelrod, Dan, Trotsky, Martov et al).

Hitler also used his SD and Gestapo loyalist to purge his own paramilitary SA "Brownshirts" leaders when they became too powerful claiming it was part of preventing imminent SA coup / aka Rohm Putsch, in so-called Night of the Long Knives.

Or like Shi'a Muslims and Sunni Muslims for the last 14 centuries.

Just simple disagreements on "power-sharing" among 'birds of a feather'...
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"The problem here is that rwingers are loath to admit that Hitler was an rwing conservative nationalist, and a Fascist backed by wealthy crony capitalists... much like most of today's Republican Party."

Here is a link to the National Socialists 25 Point Plan.

en.wikipedia.org

Some of it is definitely right-wing. Much of it is left of Bernie Sanders.

And why do we keep doing this? It's literally a historical fact that Hitler was an officer in the Bavarian Soviet Republic. I just don't see why you would want to argue against historical facts.

"Was that word salad of disjointed thoughts your brain shutting off?"

YOu just don't know what you are talking about? So why talk about it?

You're one of those low-information people who doesn't realize the fact. But honestly, do you really care? Isn't it mostly about feeling anyways?

"Socialism and communism aren't the same and are mostly theoretical concepts, especially communism."

He threw you a bone. read the ------- link and then maybe try and re-enter the discussion.

------.

"Yet your comments here on this most august site have seemed to dwell excessively upon socialism as some evil being wrought upon the United States by Democrats?"

Some democrats may say they support socialism, but it's only because-like Clownshack-they don't know what socialism is. It's just and edgy position to support when you want to be contrarian. It's like saying "from the river to the sea." Most of the young people screaming that don't understand that they are calling for genocide. If they knew what their slogans meant, most would likely be ashamed of themselves.

Socialism is a system where the workers own the means of production. The few experiments with similar systems never took off.

Left-wing dems may be the most fervent supporters of capitalism. They need the free market in order to create wealth so they can take it. That's not socialism, although a system designed by Snoofy or Clownshack would almost certainly run into the same problems that plagued the USSR and other socialist countries.

#56

Oh, you provided a link from the Jacobin.

Nice werk, Champ.

"MadBomber doesn't believe trans women when they say they are women."

Because they're not.

It's not me. It's a biology.

"But he does believe Nazis when they say they're socialist."

I've never actually talked to a Nazi, but I would tell them they are full of ----. Socialism is a system where the workers own the means of production. That did happen in the Greater German Reich, or anywhere else.

The National Socialist Government would have been more aptly named the National Corporatist government. It was a government that had ultimate authority over everything, but still permitted the efficiencies of the market, when it did not conflict with the goals of the state.

If you're being honest, you might be one of the biggest proponents of a corporatist state. You just have to find a way to ensure that non-progressives never have a say in how that state is managed. But Putin figured it out. I'm sure you would too.

"Hitler either assassinated or jailed Socialist leaders when he took power, and governed as a Socialist exactly ZERO days."

You mean, other than when he was an officer in the Bavarian Soviet Republic.

National Socialism and other radical left-wing movements weren't at odds because of their differences, but because they were competing for the same hearts and minds. German workers who were middle-class or lower.

Later, Hitler was able to expand his base of support to include those who felt (probably correctly) that Germany had been shafted at the end of WWI. His bogeyman was the jews. Today's bogeyman is the billionaire.

Classically bad timing by tin-earned preppy dork Carlson. Two words,Tuckums: Alexei Navalny.

Back in 2014-15, could anyone have imagined Republicans would become such an openly pro-Russia party? It seems like something almost any American would privately admit is horrendous, yet Republican voters just shrug it off and pretend like it isn't happening.

Today's bogeyman is the billionaire.

#69 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

I thought it was that brown man walking down the street MAGA can "just tell" is "wet".

To me, a more concrete definition of socialism is that the benefit of society as a whole is prioritized over the individual benefit.

a society in which a very small percentage of the population owns a very large portion of the real assets, is doomed. Lending money at interest and real estate speculation, for example, are poison to a healthy society.

A ruling class that makes its own rules to benefit themselves is anathema to a happy and durable society. Why, for instance, are our 'lawmakers' without exception suddenly inordinately wealthy? Why do they never go into medical debt? What effect does this have on the rest of us?

"You mean, other than when he was an officer in the Bavarian Soviet Republic."

No, I mean once he had power. You're always avoiding those facts.

Did you miss the part where, once in power, he killed or jailed all the leading Socialists?

"National Socialism and other radical left-wing movements..."

You can stop right there.

The leaders in Germany made ZERO steps to be Socialists once they attained power. ZERO.

Calling the persecution of jews, gays, and intellectuals "leftist" is moronic.

Once in power, tyrants usually try to eliminate their leading competition, whether they're of the same ideology or not..

- Here is a link to the National Socialists 25 Point Plan.

What's amazing is that Hitler's Propaganda still works on Mythbomber.

Of course the publication was meant to attract voters by miming popular socialist memes.

And Cutiepie's author/real estate agent was right in one respect, Goebbels was a true believer, Socialist through and through.... well, up until the point that Hitler took power and put all of Goebbels' best buds in concentrations camps and or murdered them outright.

"Joseph Goebbels, who would eventually become Reich Minister of Propaganda once the Nazi Party seized control of Germany, wrote in his diary about Hitler's rejection of socialism at that 1926 meeting,

"I feel as if someone had knocked me on the head ... my heart aches so much. ... A horrible night! Surely one of the greatest disappointments of my life."

Rather, Hitler viewed socialism as a political organizing mechanism for the German people more broadly: a way of creating a "people's community" " the volksgemeinschaft " that would bring everyday Germans (and businesspeople) together not based on their class but on their race and ethnicity.

Thus, he would use the unifying aspects of "National Socialism" to get everyday Germans on board with the Nazi program while simultaneously negotiating with powerful businesses and the Junkers, industrialists and nobility, who would ultimately help Hitler gain total power over the German state."

www.vox.com

This is actually a well-sourced wiki on Nazism.

en.wikipedia.org

Moscow and Saint Petersburg are showcase cities where all the money goes. They are where tourism exists. The rest of Russia is not so fortunate. More than 20% of Russians don't have access to indoor plumbing. Access to hot water is even worse.

If you're in rural Russia that number goes to over 65%.

Tucker Carlson is an enormous ----. Hideously stupid. Pathetically in need of domination. He cries out for a fascist father figure. How is he even relevant? What an embarrassment to anyone that follows him.

The inner core of Moscow is beautiful but when you get 2-3 miles out Moscow looks disheveled.

The response to Carlson is so obvious that it almost goes without saying. If you like it in Russia so much, stay there. For a long time now he has already been showing a deeper love for than he does for the .

"Tucker Carlson is an enormous ----."

No wonder people are always trying to squeeze him.

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#79 | Posted by Corky at 2024-02-18 11:02 AM
Rather, Hitler viewed socialism as a political organizing mechanism for the German people more broadly: a way of creating a "people's community" - the volksgemeinschaft - that would bring everyday Germans (and businesspeople) together not based on their class but on their race and ethnicity.

This just confirms what I posted. That's exactly what is described by Goebbels (the only "true believer" of "national" Socialism in the Reich, really??) - as opposed to "international" Marxism / Leninism / Stalinism / Communism "real" ("good") socialism(s)?

From your www.vox.com article: "Whatever interest Hitler had in socialism was not based on an understanding of socialism that we might have today - a movement that would supplant capitalism in which the working class would seize power over the state and the means of production. (really??)

Here's a little bit of history: There was a period of "NEP / New Economic Policy"** from 1921 until 1928 in Soviet Union, proposed by none other than Lenin - to allow private property and business, particularly agricultural and industrial - as a way to meliorate economic devastation brought by the Great October Revolution of 1917 and Bolsheviks' economic policy of "War Communism (1918-1920)" i.e., expropriation of private business, the nationalization of industry throughout Soviet Russia and the forced requisition of 'excess' grain and food products...

** "NEP allowed a limited amount of free-market capitalism to promote a more efficient transition of socialism to communism, as was outlined by Karl Marx. Lenin hoped this would stabilize the Soviet economy until they could achieve more state control over the economy."
...
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