Too bad they don't let the American people vote on this one....

"The availability of extraneous resources is a factor in families' separating... blablabla "

Sorry Johnson, I've had my fill of shit today, thanks. I stopped reading the moment you started to include divorce in the list of "evil things that welfare caused".

You are truly a first class idiot, and this conversation is done. Feel free to keep blowing hard though....

"Maybe the best thing overall is for people to grow a few vegetables and a bit of smoke and let the rich get (somehow) richer without them."

Did I mention my alternative lifestyle? Aaaaahhh....

Please, let them secede.

Pretty please?

They could then put Sarah Palin in charge, and see how fun it really is....

Nope, but golly I don't recall Lincoln crashing the economy to pieces, pissing off the whole world or condoning torture. He did not declare war on an entire religion, did not joke about is biggest flubs, nor lie to get us into an unnecessary war.

Bush will be judged all right. Let's just hope it's in a court of law, and not just a few harsh words in a history book.

Good God, Johnson, what does the actual makeup of my family have to do with it? Would you care to discuss divorce rates, and which demographic has the most of it? Or how many divorced moms go on welfare because Dad can't/won't afford to keep both homes afloat and mom can't afford day care on minimum wage? Are you going to blame that on welfare too? (Or you JeffJ, why don't you add in some other relevant stats, like divorce rates, unemployment, child support law changes, or the rise in the cost of living that has led to dual income being the norm?)

And yes, let's discuss minimum wage, shall we? It seems you care enough to note that working families don't live as well as welfare families, so it must be the welfare's fault right? Nothing to do with conservatives blocking living wage laws since time immemorial.

So tell me WTF my family's makeup has to do with anything, or where I might be fudging. 2 parents, 4 kids, one home, no child support issues, and we were on the dole because my Dad got laid off for a year and half that happened to coincide with a skyrocketing unemployment rate. Thank you Reagan. We got foodstamps, school lunch, the whole ball of wax. Did my dad suddenly become superfluous? Nope. Try again. He did eventually divorce my mom, but that was years later. Satisfied?

Your whole myth about welfare culture is obsolete anyways, considering most states don't give out checks anymore, let alone just let people slide because they are comfy or have kids. They push you in most states to get an education or at the least, a job. Another thing to consider is that many of those "working families" you tout get subsidized by the government with food stamps, subsidized daycare, energy assistance, and of course, tax breaks. So until you can sit down and delineate exactly which "welfare culture" you are referring to, this conversation is pretty pointless.

The fact remains, you (and JeffJ, surprise!)are taking one statistic and pitting it against another in a vacuum and calling it cause and effect. Ignorant at best.

What's wrong is the simple ignored fact that while the Fed may be technically "private", it still answers to the government.

Of course, the government having control over a private entity equates to socialism, so either way, we're in trouble, right?

Sorry Bob. You are playing semantics.

You can say it's because they were replacing one religion with another (specifically Communism) but it's weak at best. Communist regimes have always rounded up the faithbased, from Stalin on, and while the reason was they viewed organized religion as a threat to their power, the fact remains, it was atheists killing the religious BECAUSE THEY WERE SO.

And saying that what the Chinese Gov allows is religion is patently absurd. It's a puppet show of warped dogma supporting the party line through government appointed bishops, monks and lamas, much to the dismay of actual practitioners of the religions involved.

Actually, I believe what it was tantamount to was "America Delivers Stunning Loss To Republican Party".

Which is why you guys have your panties so bundled right now.

Perhaps we're just tired of the patently absurd ravings like "Obama is a terrorist who weren't born in the US" and "They hate our freedom" and "It's all the Dems fault!" and "Just wait and see!".

It all sounds so damn ridiculous in light of the reality that Bush and Co. (Neocons? Reaganites? Corporate Whores? Give it a name...) have handed us. Ah well. Enjoy your irrelevance.

"Hans...just like Edwards? He was having an affair the whole time and nobody got him on it until the outside tabloid press."

Actually, it was pretty common knowledge in inner circles, and Hillary constantly hinted about it but said she was not going to bother releasing it, because he had already lost any chance by that point.

I guess she felt for Mrs. Edwards...

"This may be taking it a little too far...
Obama Team Mulls Role for Miss Lewinsky in New Administration"

Hehehe. What is it with people posting satire as news lately?

And Johnson, don't be obtuse. Everybody on this forum knows that was a conservative slap at liberalism, so calling it Republican BS is legit.

You really need to stop taking yourself so seriously, because hey - nobody else does.

Yeah. Cuz Techdude sez so.

What the thinker thinks, the prover proves....

"China and Tibet don't kill people for not being atheists. You lose."

You are kidding, right?

China is slaughtering monks regularly and destroying their monasteries, because RELIGION IS NOT ALLOWED, as it pulls from Communism. You can stretch it away from that fact all you want, but in the end, they are dying because they are not atheists, because they are religious.

This is common knowledge, and your protestation to the contrary is a disservice to all that have died for it thus far.

I agree that Christianity is full of it, and that we don't know a lot about the concept known as god, but the fact remains, declaring that there is no such thing is as ignorant as declaring that he talks to you.

"Morons!

Mainstream news!

Farmers raise stink over New Zealand 'fart tax'
www.guardian.co.uk

Obama to institute new "Fart Tax"
Posted by: AWB in 2008 Presidential Race
www.fortwaynenews.com

Do some of you people just enjoy being ignorant?"

You mean ignorant like someone who posts joke stories as "mainstream news" while calling others on intelligence? Or one who rants and raves about the most pathetically obvious bullshit conspiracy theories?

Hint - Check your links, oh wise one.

"Furthermore, when Geithner takes the exact same approach that Paulsen took months earlier, it will be praised as wonderful and forward thinking. We will still be getting raped, except by a different rapist, and the pseudo-left will march along in lockstep."

So by your logic, everyone you have ever worked with had the same fucked opinion as you?

Or is it possible that Geithner got picked for the reasons given when he was announced - he's aware of what's not working, what might, and what definitely won't. Just becase he has some work experience does not mean he thinks just like everyone he works with.

Until the O-team starts actually working, you all need to take some deep breathes and stop freaking out. I mean really, we all know Obama is just a terrorist plant anyways, so none of this will matter when he suicide bombs the f-ing White House, right?

"Socialism IS the problem, and giving the lowlifes of the country a free ride, and letting them use their race as an excuse, how pathetic is that?"

I call racist bullshit.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like you are saying that people on welfare are mostly if not entirely of ethnic minorities, and then it sounds like you are saying there are 38 million or so "parasites"", which I must ask, are you referring to legal, illegal or both? Care to tell us how they are parasitic, as in, reaping benefits of the host without actually working for said benefits?

Finally, I would love it if you could clarify for us the difference between the three isms you listed, and if not, then you really oughtta just put the foot in your mouth now and start chewing....

As long as I don't have to grow out my Dashiki...

China on Tibet, for the win.

And don't give me any crap about communism replacing religion, because atheism does the same thing for all you dogmatic atheists.

How about a little agnosticism? Is it really that hard for all of you (both sides) to just say "I really don't know"? Because the truth is, none of you do, and anyone who pretends they do is full of it, or crazy.

So before the election, all the RWNJ's crowed and crowed about what a liberal socialist Obama was, and now that he's elected, they keep trumpeting about what a Bush/Clinton Junior he is.

The saddest part? He's been neither. Even the article posted above is full of naught but suggestions, considerations and guesses.

Give it all a rest already and wait to see what he really does, eh? You are only making fools of yourselves.

But then, what else is new?

"That was a strong rejoinder. Lots of substance. "

Funny, I didn't see any substance in your post either, just speculation. At no point did you magically prove the unprovable bs RWNJ theory that welfare was the cause of anything, and furthermore, your post included such doozie bs as "It's only now that people are poking their heads out of the trench and daring to say so". Right. We've never heard that one before now, have we?

If you honestly think welfare is the only cause of the breakdown of the family unit, or even a remotely significant factor, you haven't been paying much attention to anything but your RW talking points.

In fact, the stronger case can and has been made that it's a direct result of inflation and the rise in the cost of living requiring parents without welfare to have double income homes, depriving kids of a stay-at-home parent.

I gladly offer my own family as proof. I was on welfare for a few years as a kid, with two parents raising four kids. Guess what? It was Reaganomics that put us there, but hey, don't let me burst your bubble.

As for Johnson's regular steaming pile, dude, what do you base this stuff on? I'm still laughing.

But you just keep believing the bs. It's just a shame it's all regurgitated crap and not based on your own first-hand knowledge. Or anyone's for that matter....

Dude, stf already. It's not radical rightwing nutjob day at the DR. Some of us are trying to have an actual discussion about real issues, not your paranoid masturbatory fantasy.

The birth certificate issue has been resoundingly discredited, and all you do is make yourself look like an ass every time you bring it up.

My question is, who is this guy?

It says it's a Center for their more famous followers, and that he used to be a regular. Not to mention he showed up in a red convertible.

Buckaroo Bonzai? Billy Jack? Killed Bill? Or just some nobody??? Enquiring Minds, and all that!

Stocks? Hah. Never bought 'em, never will. I live an alternate lifestyle, to say the very least.

That aside, you should be investing where the money still is, which is green tech. Now would be a good time to start keeping tabs on that sort of thing, which techs are more successful and not just energy sources either, but things like green building materials and design, space age plastics and metals - environmentally friendly infrastructure is the way of the future, and Obama has made his commitment to it very clear.

I should note though, I am biased towards loving this outcome. My wife is a green electrical engineer, and I do consulting work for alternative farming and building techniques.

Between the two, we're set. :)

Eek, I'm slow.

Old Glory, Union Jack?