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Grendel

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Good point.

Thanks. However, you should answer the question if you wish to truly understand the Catholic position.

But, asking Mary to 'pray for us sinners' is asking her to speak to God on your behalf.

Are you not essentially doing the same thing when you ask a living person to pray for you?

Not a single mention in the Bible about needing anyone to speak to God for you.

Needing is the wrong verb. Do you need other living people to pray for you? No, but Protestants ask them anyway. Moreover, it is not true that their in no mention of the communion of saints in heaven and their petitions to God. The Book of Maccabees, which Martin Luther conveniently excised from the Bible, makes reference to it, and so does the Book of Revelation.

Why did Moses blow his top upon finding his followers praying to an idol they had built, while he was atop the mountain? Are not little ceramic dolls, assigned the names of Saints & Mary, the very same thing?

No, they are images to assist the faithful to be mindful of a saint or of God. These images are not worshipped. Moreover, while Protestant do not like to see a distinction between veneration and worship, for Catholics the two are very different. Saints are venerated, held in great respect because of their fidelity to God. They are respected for their love of God--not as a god, thus the first commandment is not broken. Their veneration would be the equivalent of the love and respect you give to a great Protestant leader. If you still respect them after they are dead, you are doing essentially what Catholics do with saints, save that you are not allowed to ask them to pray for, despite the fact that you could when they were alive. God alone is worshipped because he is recognized as the source of all that is good.

People, by the way, who were made Saints only by the Catholic church, not God. He sanctioned their Sainthood's in no form or fashion. Unless you're speaking to the Pope, of course, then you will get the opposite of that truth.

Common usage aside, Saints are not made by the Church. The sainthood conferred upon a departed soul is merely an act of recognizing with a sense of surety of the salvation of an extremely pious individual. Catholics believe that soul is, indeed, in heaven. Thus God sanctioned their holiness, their state of salvation; the Church simply recognizes it.

As global capitalism disintegrates, the heresy our corporate masters fear is gaining currency. But that heresy will not be effective until it is divorced from the mania for hope that is an essential part of corporate indoctrination. The ridiculous positivism, the belief that we are headed toward some glorious future, defies reality. Hope, in this sense, is a form of disempowerment.

Honestly, most of the adults that I know are cynical lot. They do hope that the future will be good for their children, but I know no one who believes it is inevitable or that the future is going to be glorious. There is a general sense of pessimism in our culture in regard to our future. Now. many do "hope" the future will be good, but this demonstrates an acceptance of the very real possibility that it might not be.

Moreover, there is a bit of an irony in disavowing hope and labeling it as enslaving and then preaching a need for new thinking and the need of some to "carry out the self-sacrifice necessary for revolt." I imagine such preaching is because you "hope" you can bring about change. Without hope, why would anyone work for any change?

The core issue here is really the central premise that capitalism, corporatism and the current political systems are in fact enslaving and need to be abandoned--perhaps in a revolutionary way. While I think many here may be inclined to such a premise, it is debatable and needs to be examined in a way that doesn't immediately invoke an either/or fallacy.

BTW, I stopped reading the article when it began to make sweeping generalizations about Ancient, medieval and Renaissance worlds.

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