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Friday, May 03, 2024

The BASIC programming language turns 60.

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"Have you got an extra 'GOTO 10' line?" - Futurama

#1 | Posted by censored at 2024-05-03 10:29 AM | Reply

"Have you got an extra 'GOTO 10' line?" - Futurama

#1 | POSTED BY CENSORED

"What an awful dream. 1's and 0's everywhere. I thought I saw a 2!" -Bender
"It was just a dream, Bender. There's no such thing as 2." -Fry

#2 | Posted by Sycophant at 2024-05-03 11:27 AM | Reply | Funny: 3

COBOL was the business programming language and IBM mainframes all the rage when I went into technical recruiting in the late 70's.

But I picked up on Fortran and Assembly language engineering markets, then later on C language and compiler development... DEC minicomputers and micro systems in the Silicon Valley start-ups.

Not that I could write the code, mind you, just follow the concepts and be able to talk to the engineers and programmers; I could prolly have gotten a job as one by passing an interview, but would have been in trouble when I showed up for werk!

I remember interviewing a married couple who had led projects in Europe integrating their systems to AWACS. They had most recently been working in Colorado at NORAD, and they wanted to leave because they were using antiquated old IBMs. Scared the crap out of me seeing what was running our defense systems back then.

#3 | Posted by Corky at 2024-05-03 11:53 AM | Reply

The life insurance administration system I work with is written in COBOL on a client/server setup - I code COBOL daily. It refuses to die. In school we started with a few BASIC programs for practice, then moved on..

#4 | Posted by HeeHaw at 2024-05-03 01:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Ugh. Fortran. I can still see the programming sheets.

#5 | Posted by LegallyYourDead at 2024-05-03 02:14 PM | Reply

I started with FORTRAN on punch cards.

#6 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-05-03 02:19 PM | Reply

- It refuses to die.

8^)

#7 | Posted by Corky at 2024-05-03 06:03 PM | Reply

@#6 .. I started with FORTRAN on punch cards. ...

I also.

Back in college in the late 1960's.

I would sit at the keypunch to type my program onto punch cards (sometimes using multi-punch for non-ASCII "extended characters").

Then putting that "deck" of punch cards into the container for the computer center folk to process overnight and leave the output in my mailbox the next morning.

If I had a syntax error in what I typed in, well, lather, rinse, repeat. Turn-around time was a day, not minutes or hours.

I was so glad when in the early 1970's I could type in my program via a 110bps teletype terminal, ask the computer to compile it and get results in a few minutes.


Ah... the good old days...


Revivalists - Good Old Days (2023)
www.youtube.com


#8 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-03 09:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I started with FORTRAN on punch cards.

I dropped the box of cards once. From that point on every program I wrote I wrote a number on each card, sequentially. I would always be able to easily put them back in order.

#9 | Posted by YAV at 2024-05-03 10:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I dropped the box of cards once.

That always sucked. So did "friends" who shuffled them for you.

#10 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-05-03 10:03 PM | Reply

@#9, 10

Yup.

Been there, had that happen.

#11 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-03 10:13 PM | Reply

Turn-around time was a day, not minutes or hours.

We got to do one run per week in high school.

#12 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-05-03 10:15 PM | Reply

@#9 ... From that point on every program I wrote I wrote a number on each card, sequentially. ...

Yeah.

The keypunch I used had the ability to tell it to put sequence numbers on the punch cards.

I quickly learned that was A Feature.

#13 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-03 10:16 PM | Reply

#9

Yav, why? What if you had to insert a line?

I had to do this punchcard stuff on a IBM 360 using assembly.

Used a shoe box and tags for various "functions".

Also a PDP 11, loader.

80 digit multiply and divide.

But after that class ... Never again.

Never used BASIC formally but is like most every other language.

#14 | Posted by oneironaut at 2024-05-03 10:16 PM | Reply

What if you had to insert a line?

Then 42a came between 42 and 43.

#15 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-05-03 10:23 PM | Reply

@#12 ... We got to do one run per week in high school. ...

My high school had a computer-oriented program, but the curriculum I chose (engineering college prep) didn't partake of that at the time (late 1960's).

It wasn't until college that I was introduced to computers. And I quickly found them to be more helpful (even with the one-day turn-around) than doing an analysis (with standard deviations and all that) of my testing lab results on a slide rule.

Have you ever used a slide rule to calculate a standard deviation analysis of the data you accumulated in a lab?

I'll just say, one lab session resulted with a full 24-hours (no exaggeration) on the slide rule to analyze the results.

So, if you ask me, ~how did you spend your freshmen college year~ my reply would be... on a slide rule...

Fortunately, my sophomore year I joined a Fraternity and there was a four-banger calculator in the study room of the Frat House. (not why I joined that Frat, fwiw...)



#16 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-03 10:27 PM | Reply

The first language I learned was Pascal, in 1996 or something.

I do miss goto's.

#17 | Posted by horstngraben at 2024-05-03 10:31 PM | Reply

My high school had a computer-oriented program

Our was pretty weak. We would wright programs on paper sheets and on Friday they sent them to the university to get punched and run. We got our cards and "output" on Monday.

In other news, I actually found my old slide rule in a box of stuff a few weeks ago. I laughed when I fiddled with the "cursor".

#18 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-05-03 10:31 PM | Reply

NERDS!!!!!!!!!!!

#19 | Posted by truthhurts at 2024-05-03 10:32 PM | Reply

We had Wang computers in high school, and a few PDP-11's.

#20 | Posted by YAV at 2024-05-03 10:35 PM | Reply

My first work computers were PDP-9s and -11s. Ran our train loading systems. Even had a Winchester HDD.

#21 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-05-03 10:38 PM | Reply

In other news, I actually found my old slide rule in a box of stuff a few weeks ago. I laughed when I fiddled with the "cursor".

That's pretty funny. I had a TI calculator in high school (where we had Wang and PDP-11s), and then went to college. First thing they did was take away my calculator, and I had to learn how to use a slide ruler. A few semesters in we were allowed to use calculators, but if you were stupid enough to put an answer down on a assignment like "3.14159265..." you'd get it marked as "wrong" with a note that real-life doesn't work that way.

#22 | Posted by YAV at 2024-05-03 10:40 PM | Reply

There was a joke in the Valley in the early 80s, when the computers and peripherals became available for offices. Although the tech was much older for printers, the line was...

"Who is this Dot Matrix... and what does she want anyway?".

(nerd humor)

#23 | Posted by Corky at 2024-05-03 10:44 PM | Reply

and what does she want anyway?

She wants one side of the paper to feed a tiny bit faster than the other side.

#24 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-05-03 10:53 PM | Reply

@#18 ... Our was pretty weak. ...

For my high school, the computer students wrote the programs that the school used (with the appropriate supervision).


Looking back, I now shudder at giving those kids such control. Nowadays, there are all manner of security issues that would be, need to be, raised. But back then, not so much.

But, there it was.

The Good Old Days.

When computers were helpful, and not a weapon.




#25 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-03 10:58 PM | Reply

And they could play "Hangman".

#26 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-05-03 10:59 PM | Reply

24

jajaja.... yeah usually.

All the other techies were jealous of the Atari company facilities. On the beach, masseuses, gym, bar, free food and juice, 'smoking' areas.... play games all day. It was hilarious.

#27 | Posted by Corky at 2024-05-03 11:00 PM | Reply

hangman

My fav was the early Hitchhikers game. All text. You could still play it online a few years ago.

#28 | Posted by Corky at 2024-05-03 11:02 PM | Reply

@#18 ... I actually found my old slide rule in a box of stuff a few weeks ago. ...

My slide rule is in a box called "Memories."

It's a Keuffel & Esser Log Log Decitrg Duplex slide rule.

(wow, that's a mouthful)

:)

#29 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-03 11:02 PM | Reply

@#19 ... NERDS!!!!!!!!!!! ...

Yup.

And proud of it.

#30 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-03 11:03 PM | Reply

www.mobygames.com

#31 | Posted by Corky at 2024-05-03 11:03 PM | Reply

Ha... BBC still has it up:

www.bbc.co.uk

#32 | Posted by Corky at 2024-05-03 11:06 PM | Reply

@#22 ... I had a TI calculator in high school ...

In my Memories box I have my old HP 35 calculator.

HP-35
en.wikipedia.org

... In about 1970 HP co-founder Bill Hewlett challenged his co-workers to create a "shirt-pocket sized HP-9100". At the time, slide rules were the only practical portable devices for performing trigonometric and exponential functions, as existing pocket calculators could only perform addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. Introduced at US$395 (equivalent to $2,900 in 2023),[2] like HP's first scientific calculator, the desktop 9100A, it used reverse Polish notation (RPN) rather than what came to be called "algebraic" entry. The "35" in the calculator's name came from the number of keys.

The original HP-35 was available from 1972 to 1975. In 2007 HP announced the release of the "retro"-look HP 35s to commemorate the 35th anniversary of the launch of the original HP-35. It was priced at US$59.99.[3]

The HP-35 was named an IEEE Milestone in 2009.[4] ...


#33 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-03 11:08 PM | Reply

... and, if I may add ...

RPN rules.


:)

#34 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-03 11:09 PM | Reply

My fav was the early Hitchhikers game.

I think I had all of those Infocom games. Long nights.

RPN rules.

Loser.

:-)

#35 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-05-03 11:13 PM | Reply

35

I'm playing it now at the bbs link

"It's dark..."

Turn on light. Get out of bed. pick up gown. put on gown....

#36 | Posted by Corky at 2024-05-03 11:17 PM | Reply

Infocom games like Zork and Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy weren't written in BASIC. The game files on their own virtual machine called the Z-Machine, which they ported to the different architectures of the day. Waaay ahaad of its time. Just had to get that tidbit in there.

Douglas Adams did another computer game some years later called Starship Titanic. Fanboys were crushed when it wasn't released on Mac.

#37 | Posted by snoofy at 2024-05-03 11:22 PM | Reply

Infocom games like Zork

You have been eaten by a grue.

#38 | Posted by REDIAL at 2024-05-03 11:28 PM | Reply

@#35 ... Loser. ...

I see your smiley. :)

My current calculator is an RPN one (HP 48GX. Way cool, btw...).

Though now, I admit, the stuff I use it for are not worthy of RPN.

But back in the day, when I had to enter complex formulae into the calculator, RPN was most appreciated.

YMMV and all that.

#39 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-03 11:30 PM | Reply

Taught myself BASIC on a C64, and then picked up Fortran77 in college for Meteorology as that was the language running all the forecast modeling software. To young to have experienced the punch card days.

#40 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2024-05-04 12:48 PM | Reply

I remember having a book on how to program games in basic on a TI-99 back around 1984 or so.

I was never good at it. Never liked it.

And Lamplighter...why do you still have a calculator?

Have you not heard of Excel?

#41 | Posted by madbomber at 2024-05-04 12:54 PM | Reply

People still use Excel?

#42 | Posted by horstngraben at 2024-05-04 12:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I dropped the box of cards once. From that point on every program I wrote I wrote a number on each card, sequentially. I would always be able to easily put them back in order.
#9 | POSTED BY YAV AT 2024-05-03 10:00 PM"

Been there.

Learned the quickie work-around:
Draw a Sharpie diagonal line across the top edge of the deck of cards. Any card out of place would stand out and could be easily re-inserted into where it belonged.

#43 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2024-05-04 01:53 PM | Reply

#43 - nice!

#44 | Posted by YAV at 2024-05-05 08:11 AM | Reply

@#14 ... What if you had to insert a line? ...

The sequence numbers I used incremented by 10 per card.

So it was easy to insert a card in the deck in the proper place.

00010
00020

Often became

00010
00015
00020

And then

00010
00013
00015
00020

etc...


#45 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-06 12:24 AM | Reply

@#19 ... NERDS!!!!!!!!!!! ...

Yup.

And proud of it.

So... what's yer point?

:)


#46 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-06 12:26 AM | Reply

#@22 ... I had to learn how to use a slide ruler. ...

One thing about the slide rule that I liked, when you used it to come to an answer, you could look at it and see how you set up the problem you wanted it to solve. And then take a step back and evaluate how you set up the problem.

Calculators don't do that.

#47 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-06 12:29 AM | Reply

@#41 ... And Lamplighter...why do you still have a calculator? ...

Simple.

My mental arithmetic is not what it used to be.

When I went to a gas station to fill up the tank.

I used to look at the total cost and the gallons, and do the mental arithmetic to calculate the price per gallon, and then compare it with that the price per gallon on the pump displayed.

Sadly, I can no longer do that level of mental arithmetic.

But to answer your question, I don't use a calculator a lot, but once or twice, maybe, a month.



#48 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-06 12:33 AM | Reply

@#40 ... then picked up Fortran77 in college for Meteorology as that was the language running all the forecast modeling software. ...

Yeah, there is so much Fortran (and Cobol) software "out there" that needs to be mintained, and precious few who can maintain it.

For example...

COBOL: Completely Obsolete But Omnipresent Language (2014)
devops.com


#49 | Posted by LampLighter at 2024-05-06 12:40 AM | Reply

@#14 ... What if you had to insert a line? ...

I just did append an apha.
1
2
3
4
4A
5

Simple.

#50 | Posted by YAV at 2024-05-06 08:53 AM | Reply

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