Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Saturday, July 13, 2019

The past week saw both the passing of Ross Perot and the entry of Tom Steyer into the presidential race. It's fitting that the two events should coincide -- as one billionaire presidential candidate leaves us, another steps up to take his place ... But while "rich guy who tells it like it is" candidates are not necessarily doomed to electoral oblivion -- one of them sits in the White House today -- they represent everything dysfunctional about US democracy.

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---- these people.

#1 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-07-13 08:53 PM | Reply

From the article ...

The problem is, billionaires are generally pretty bad people, and certainly can't be trusted to reliably champion the interests of the working class.

Steyer, despite his public embrace of environmentalist and progressive causes, was heavily invested in private prisons and even fossil fuel companies.

In 2014, the New York Times reported that "Mr Steyer's fund, Farallon Capital Management, has pumped hundreds of millions of dollars into companies that operate coalmines and coal-fired power plants from Indonesia to China."

For years, his company also "invested heavily in the Corrections Corporation of America, the nation's largest private prison firm". Steyer's investments were so controversial that at one point, Yale students protested the way Steyer was using their university's endowment.

This is so often the way with these "good billionaires".

Warren Buffett, portrayed as kind and grandfatherly, was unapologetic when it was exposed that a company he owned was giving predatory loans to mobile home owners.

Michael Bloomberg not only has a record of crude sexism, but his solution to the New York City homelessness crisis was to buy the homeless one-way tickets out of town.

Bloomberg was clear on whose interests he served, saying "If we could get every billionaire around the world to move here it would be a godsend." The 60,000 homeless people his administration left behind might disagree.

Billionaire candidates often run promising to fix the very problems that their own existence created in the first place.


Pitchforks, people, pitchforks.

#2 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-07-13 08:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Tom Steyer, as I have said repeatedly, is one of the biggest hypocrites in finance and politics.

This was an ego play on his part, thinking "If that idiot Trump was able to pull it off, how bad can it be?"

Hilarity will ensue.

#3 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-07-13 09:16 PM | Reply

Steyer 2020!

#4 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-07-13 09:26 PM | Reply

#3 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

I don't doubt what you're saying ...

Once the sweaty masses get tired of billionaire spouted BS, it'll have to be either pitchforks or another FDR.

#5 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-07-13 09:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

The Party of Martha's Vineyard ought to be lead by a billionaire.

#6 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-07-13 09:30 PM | Reply

Steyer 2020!

#4 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Spoken from a Ross Perot voter.

#7 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-07-13 09:33 PM | Reply

The Party of Martha's Vineyard ought to be lead by a billionaire.

#6 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

You act like the Grand Old Plutocrats don't exist, let alone never existed.

Why?

#8 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-07-13 09:35 PM | Reply

The by-line from the link says it all ...

From Ross Perot to Tom Steyer, rich megalomaniacs run for president by preying on voters' disillusionment

Wake the hell up people.

#9 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-07-13 10:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Here's an interesting comment and reply from the article's comment section ...

Bluejil
17h ago

Of course. One of the problems is the few that feel "pulling oneself up by the bootstraps" is a way forward. We so often hear it on both sides of the pond, from the chip on shoulder man in the street, "nobody gave me a thing."

The wealthy demonise the poor, the elderly, the disabled, young women, it is always the fault of the most vulnerable, they are taking all the resources, which is complete crap.

We all want the same thing, an equitable society, we want a safety net for all.

We want a government that taxes fairly and uses monies to make the necessities of life, education, healthcare available to all.

It is unfortunate that the charlatans tell them it isn't possible, everything must trickle up to the wealthiest and they fall for it every time, they are able to buy votes, they lie, they coerce, money talks, everyone else walks.


And the reply to the above comment ...

DougWump @ Bluejil

Clearly not everyone wants an equitable society.

These douchebag billionaire capitalists have no problem exploiting the legal system, human resources and the environment in the pursuit of money and (ultimately) power.

The only comfort I take in this is knowing that Steyer will be parting with some of his money on an ego boosting exercise.

---- him.


Nice to see Brits correctly using "douchebag" in a sentence.

#10 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-07-13 11:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

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Steyer's been pouring money into leftwing causes and campaigns for years. Are Leftists going to turn down his cash? How about Bloomberg's cash? And Soros cash?

#11 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-07-13 11:25 PM | Reply

Steyer's been pouring money into leftwing causes and campaigns for years. Are Leftists going to turn down his cash? How about Bloomberg's cash? And Soros cash?

#11 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Who's in the White House, rubbing his puss-oozing STD swollen orange appendages on the curtains?

Ever heard of the Koch Brothers? One of these douchebag's even ran for vice-president. When he failed, he and his douchebag brother decided it was better to leverage their billions to buy the political process in order to accumulate even more wealth and power.

Why do you only focus on "Leftists"?

You act like right-wing billionaires are benevolent do-gooders who are being unfairly picked on by unions.

#12 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-07-13 11:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

PINCH

Nulli has never heard of Sheldon Adelson or Rebekah Mercer either . . . and a long list of wealthy GOP donors who prefer the shadowy anonymity of the GOP Super PAC . . . names like Julian Robertson, Frank VadeerSloot, Bob Perry, and brothers Bill and Richard Marriott . . . to name only a few.

That's where the real dough is. The ones with six zeros.

#13 | Posted by Twinpac at 2019-07-14 01:19 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

billionaires have no idea how the average American lives, they live behind sheltered walls and only see other billionaires a hell of a lot of them think that their billionaires because God wanted them to be billionaires and they see the poor as being punished by God.

#14 | Posted by PunchyPossum at 2019-07-14 01:27 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

PUNCHY

I wouldn't get too analytical about it. Usually it boils down to greed and power for
some . . . like Donald Trump.

A lot of it philanthropy for tax write-offs.

And then there's those who operate in the world of reciprocity ~ you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. They support a particular party or candidate because they expect something in return. Those are the people who have congress peeing their pants and why we seem to get such strange legislation that seems to do more harm than good ~ like deregulating things that are there to protect us. Like clean air and water, for example. Or consumer finance protection. Or offshore drilling. To name a couple.

The rest of us are just the little people who vote. Promises are made to get our vote and forgotten until they need our vote again. We're the suckers who never learn. You know that, don't you?

#15 | Posted by Twinpac at 2019-07-14 01:50 AM | Reply

From Ross Perot to Tom Steyer, rich megalomaniacs run for president by preying on voters' disillusionment

The unfortunate part of our primary process is that it is so long... middling candidates who happen to be personally wealthy can stay in longer than they would otherwise, due to cash reserves. That will likely be the case of Steyer.

Counterpoints would be Bloomberg and Starbucks guy who both decided to stay on the sidelines.

#16 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2019-07-14 01:53 AM | Reply

#15 | Posted by Twinpac at 2019-07-14 01:50 AM | Reply

Of course, some of what you wrote is correct, but what I wrote in my post is reality trust me
I have done years of research on this along with others, this is how a vast amount of rich people think and feel.

#17 | Posted by PunchyPossum at 2019-07-14 02:11 AM | Reply

One of the things missing in this conversation is the fact that we need millionaires and billionaires in this country. If everybody was poor, nobody would have a job and we'd all be back to hunters and gathers again.

We just don't need them in politics. EVER!

Certain types of people just don't have the mindset for it.

#18 | Posted by Twinpac at 2019-07-14 02:18 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Stupid question, in America there is only one indicator of human value and virtue, money. The richer you are, the better person you are.

#19 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2019-07-14 06:13 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

TFD

" in America there is only one indicator of human value and virtue, money. "

Trump has certainly tried to prove that case, hasn't he?

But then, he's also nuttier than a fritcake so I would want to paint 'everybody' with the same brush.

#20 | Posted by Twinpac at 2019-07-14 06:42 AM | Reply

"Pitchforks, people, pitchforks."

Pitchforks?

It sounds like you're promoting violence.

#21 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-07-14 08:35 AM | Reply

"Once the sweaty masses get tired of billionaire spouted BS, it'll have to be either pitchforks or another FDR."

I doubt that.

FDR created programs to provide jobs at a subsistence level, which is far more than they had available previously. The CCC paid $30 per month (~$600 is 2019$). It also provided them with food, clothing, and shelter.

Do you know anyone who would be interested in something like this today? Working 40 hours a week to live in a bunkhouse, eat at a chow hall...all for under $3.50 (2019$) an hour?

#22 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-07-14 08:44 AM | Reply

"billionaires have no idea how the average American lives"

Do you have any idea how billionaires live, other than what you've contrived in your own mind?

A better question...how do you think wealthy people wind up that way?

#23 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-07-14 08:46 AM | Reply

It sounds like you're promoting violence.

#21 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Here you go, weenie.

The Pitchforks Are Coming ... For Us Plutocrats
www.politico.com

Memo: From Nick Hanauer
To: My Fellow Zillionaires

You probably don't know me, but like you I am one of those .01%ers, a proud and unapologetic capitalist. I have founded, co-founded and funded more than 30 companies across a range of industries -- from itsy-bitsy ones like the night club I started in my 20s to giant ones like Amazon.com, for which I was the first nonfamily investor. Then I founded aQuantive, an Internet advertising company that was sold to Microsoft in 2007 for $6.4 billion.

I'm not the smartest guy you've ever met, or the hardest-working. I was a mediocre student. I'm not technical at all -- I can't write a word of code. What sets me apart, I think, is a tolerance for risk and an intuition about what will happen in the future.

Seeing where things are headed is the essence of entrepreneurship. And what do I see in our future now?

I see pitchforks.

I have a message for my fellow filthy rich, for all of us who live in our gated bubble worlds: Wake up, people. It won't last.

If we don't do something to fix the glaring inequities in this economy, the pitchforks are going to come for us.

No society can sustain this kind of rising inequality.

In fact, there is no example in human history where wealth accumulated like this and the pitchforks didn't eventually come out.

You show me a highly unequal society, and I will show you a police state.

Or an uprising.

There are no counterexamples.

None.

It's not if, it's when.


Hey, Madbomber ... you can always go whine to Rcade.

#24 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-07-14 08:47 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 3

.how do you think wealthy people wind up that way?

#23 | Posted by madbomber

Some strong percentage of them flat-out cheat.

#25 | Posted by Zed at 2019-07-14 08:51 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Here's another important point from billionaire Nick Hanauer's Politico piece ...

What everyone wants to believe is that when things reach a tipping point and go from being merely crappy for the masses to dangerous and socially destabilizing, that we're somehow going to know about that shift ahead of time.

Any student of history knows that's not the way it happens. Revolutions, like bankruptcies, come gradually, and then suddenly. One day, somebody sets himself on fire, then thousands of people are in the streets, and before you know it, the country is burning.

And then there's no time for us to get to the airport and jump on our Gulfstream Vs and fly to New Zealand.

That's the way it always happens.

If inequality keeps rising as it has been, eventually it will happen.

We will not be able to predict when, and it will be terrible -- for everybody.

But especially for us.


We as a country can reverse this unpleasant inevitability by, well, you know ... doing what worked in the past.

Raise taxes on the rich, instead of letting millionaires and billionaires loot the U.S. Treasury via tax cuts.

Spend the nation's money on things that matter: healthcare, education, infrastructure.

And while we're at it -- stop the endless wars (military-industrial-complex, remember?)

America CAN be rebuilt if we do these things -- and speaking of rebuilding America, start the rebuilding process in the Midwest where it's needed most.

#26 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-07-14 09:29 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Wealth is not a measure of virtue.
Greed is not good
Cutting taxes is not fiscal responsibilty
Using taxes to educate and feed and heal people is not fiscal irresponsibility.
Cutting education funding does not save us money.
Spending more on a bloated military is irresponsible.
Flat taxes are not fair taxes
minimum wage is too low
raising the minimum wage does not cause unemployment
The wall is just a dog whistle
Some Republicans are openly and proudly racist and the rest welcome them by voting for them.
Nazis were never socialists. Socialists, Communists, and Union leaders were the first people sent to the camps.
Both sides are not the same.
Republican policies deliberately hurt people or at best cut them off from help.

#27 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-07-14 09:41 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"In fact, there is no example in human history where wealth accumulated like this and the pitchforks didn't eventually come out."

Re-written as "there is no example in human history where everyone was getting rich, but some were getting rich at a higher marginal rate, where the pitchforks didn't eventually come out.

I would agree with you if a large part of the country was mired in good old fashioned, great-depression style poverty. If they were making clothes out of burlap sacks ang going barefoot for the lack of shoes. But you and I both know that quality of life for the median American household has never been better. And making rich people poorer won't change that.

#28 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-07-14 10:16 AM | Reply

"Raise taxes on the rich, instead of letting millionaires and billionaires loot the U.S. Treasury via tax cuts."

Could be re-written as "letting the non millionaires and billionaires off by looting the millionaires and billionaires."

#29 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-07-14 10:17 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Spend the nation's money on things that matter: healthcare, education, infrastructure."

It's not the nation's money. It's the individuals that reside within it. You have no claim, legal, moral, or otherwise, to the funds sitting in my bank account. Nor do I have claim to yours.

And I don't disagree with you on education. But it shouldn't be a handout. Go major in interpretive dance for six years before going on to be a barista. That would be a waste of taxpayer dollars. Paying for medical school, something in a STEM field...probably decent investments. But the key word is "investment."

#30 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-07-14 10:21 AM | Reply

"Wealth is not a measure of virtue."

But it is a matter of value. Economic value to be specific.

#31 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-07-14 10:22 AM | Reply

Wealth is a measure of discipline.
Greed is good
Spending 2 times more than you tax is not fiscal responsibility.
50% educational bureaucratic overhead is wasting money.
Military is skin and bones and needs more money
Flat taxes is equal taxes
minimum wage is irrelevant with massive unchecked unskilled immigration.
The wall is a better solution than Obamas cages.
Some Democrats are openly and proudly racist and the rest welcome them by voting for them.
Nazis were socialists. Bottom up socialist were sent to camps, Top down socialist like Warren were in control of the Nazi regime.
Both sides were the same.
Democrat policies deliberately hurt people, putting them in cages, putting them in projects.

#32 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-07-14 10:22 AM | Reply

"Nazis were never socialists. Socialists, Communists, and Union leaders were the first people sent to the camps."

Dude. National Socialist.

National.

Socialist.

It's in the ------- name...and the 25 point plan that the National Socialist pushed forward as their platform.

#33 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-07-14 10:23 AM | Reply

Third party candidates are spoilers, always have been always will be. Donald Trump loves third party candidates. I hate them because they don't put America before their own egos. Steyer could do great good but not as a candidate running against the Democratic nominee, his ego is too large for him to understand what his role should actually be.

#34 | Posted by danni at 2019-07-14 10:24 AM | Reply

I hate them because they don't put America before their own egos. Steyer could do great good but not as a candidate running against the Democratic nominee, his ego is too large for him to understand what his role should actually be.

#34 | POSTED BY DANNI

What should his role actually be, Danni? I'll bet you can't wait to tell us.

Let me guess. vote Democrat?

#35 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-07-14 10:28 AM | Reply

"Wealth is a measure of discipline."

That is completely a lie. Tell that to any cancer survivor and they will probably kick you to the ground. Hateful talk like that should be grounds for banning you from this site but hey RCADE lets haters like you post here, that's fine but you are a hater.
The only modern nation where people go bankrupt because of illness is the United States. Yay America! F**k America. If that is the country you think is great understand that millions of us think you are sick.

#36 | Posted by danni at 2019-07-14 10:28 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

quality of life for the median American household has never been better. And making rich people poorer won't change that.

Says who? Rich people could easily fund things that would make the average american's life better. Before the strawmen come out, I'm not saying that alone is a reason to do it, but your statement is simply trash.

#37 | Posted by JOE at 2019-07-14 10:32 AM | Reply

"Wealth is a measure of discipline."

That is completely a lie.
#36 | POSTED BY DANNI

Bankrupt lotto winners and pro athletes comes to mind.

#38 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-07-14 10:32 AM | Reply

I would agree with you if a large part of the country was mired in good old fashioned, great-depression style poverty. If they were making clothes out of burlap sacks and going barefoot for the lack of shoes. But you and I both know that quality of life for the median American household has never been better. And making rich people poorer won't change that.

#28 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Substitute your analogy with people wearing burlap sacks for clothes with the the VERY REAL Opioid Epidemic ... desperate people are using these drugs to mitigate their miseries, and are killing themselves in the process.

Plus, your statement about median American household never being better ... 40% of Americans still cannot afford a $400 emergency expense -- again, a very real fact.

So clearly there are problems, and the solutions to these problems is not continuing to funnel all of America's wealth to millionaires and billionaires (see Wealth Inequality video at the top of this thread).

#39 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-07-14 10:33 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Let me guess. vote Democrat?"

Not worthy of a plonk, your idiotic posts aren't worthy of a response. EVen the dumbest posters here recognize you are a hateful idiot. With Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell destroying our nation you pretend voting Democrat is a bad thing. You're f*****g crazy. SEek help. You're mentally ill.
And I can give you 2 trillion reasons why I can prove that is true.

#40 | Posted by danni at 2019-07-14 10:33 AM | Reply

-- his ego is too large for him to understand what his role should actually be.

His role should be to shut up and give us lots of cash.
--Dems

#41 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-07-14 10:35 AM | Reply

Dude. National Socialist.

National.

Socialist.

It's in the ------- name...and the 25 point plan that the National Socialist pushed forward as their platform.

#33 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

National is the first word ... are you saying Nationalism is all about Stalin?

C'mon now, use your noodle for change.

#42 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-07-14 10:36 AM | Reply

It's in the ------- name...

So North Korea is a democracy then?

#43 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-07-14 10:39 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

--You're f*****g crazy. SEek help. You're mentally ill.

Says the crazy Aunt in the attic.

#44 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-07-14 10:39 AM | Reply

"Says the crazy Aunt in the attic."

Now get off my lawn, you sick old codger. You never make a valid point and just hate those of us who do. We will continue, you will continue to make pointless comments about what we say.Because we still think, you don't, and you haven't for a long time. Turn off Fox News moron, and your mind may actually start working again.
Famous case,
family discovered father was a Fos News fan. They told Dad that the TV was broke, pretty soon he even became intelligent again. Fox News lowers your IQ. Know that Nulli. I honestly do feel sorry for your. Why would any intelligent person want to become what you have become? It's just sad.

#45 | Posted by danni at 2019-07-14 10:48 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

--So North Korea is a democracy then?

Yeah, that's as laughable as calling "antifa" "anti fascists".

#46 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-07-14 10:49 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Says the crazy Aunt in the attic.

#44 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

That's a lame Ross Perot line.

Ross Perot was part of the problem, understand?

#47 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-07-14 10:49 AM | Reply

"Fox News"

Drink!

#48 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-07-14 10:51 AM | Reply

"Yeah, that's as laughable as calling "antifa" "anti fascists"."

Oops, there's another one. Realize Nulli, every time you post you create an opportunity for people to laugh at you. Sorry guy, you've lost your ability to reason and understand. Sit in the rocking chair and let the nice people feed you. Later, they will come along and change your Depends for you.

#49 | Posted by danni at 2019-07-14 11:12 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Ross Perot was part of the problem, understand? ~ PinchALoaf

He was the solution, which is why he split among Dems and Repubs, breaking up the duopolistic industry.

God bless that man.

#50 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-07-14 11:16 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

He was the solution, which is why he split among Dems and Repubs, breaking up the duopolistic industry.

God bless that man.

#50 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

Hindsight is 20/20.

As this thread clearly points out, even to pointy-heady myopians such as yourself, that billionaires like Ross Perot (and Trump, Steyer, Bloomberg, Koch Brothers, etc.) are a BIG part of America's problem.

Wealth inequality is accelerating is right in front of you ... yet Stevie Wonder can see this but you can't.

#51 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-07-14 11:29 AM | Reply

As this thread clearly points out, even to pointy-heady myopians such as yourself, that billionaires like Ross Perot (and Trump, Steyer, Bloomberg, Koch Brothers, etc.) are a BIG part of America's problem.

And as I am clearly stating ... you are incorrect.

They have given jobs to untold millions of people, EDS, Microsoft, Oracle, Google, Facebook, Paypal.

The list of Billionaires that have enabled Billions of people around the globe to participate in the worlds economy is nearly endless.

Name calling is why you lose.

Wealth inequality is accelerating is right in front of you

World Wealth inequality is irrelevant. India has pulled 270Million people out of poverty in a decade, and YES a few billionaires were along for the ride.

#52 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-07-14 11:45 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

We just don't need them in politics. EVER!

Certain types of people just don't have the mindset for it.
#18 | POSTED BY TWINPAC AT 2019-07-14 02:18 AM | FLAG: Right, as politicians have done such a 'bang-up' job of running the country.....

#53 | Posted by MSgt at 2019-07-14 11:52 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

World Wealth inequality is irrelevant. India has pulled 270Million people out of poverty in a decade, and YES a few billionaires were along for the ride.

#52 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

The video at the top of the thread is about wealth inequality in America.

We're the richest country in the world yet we argue over foodstamps.

That, is, dysfunctional -- which is why you lose.

Just as Zillionaire Plutocrat Nick Hanauer opined, when the pitchforks come out, you better immediately sail your boat to New Zealand.

(you'll probably never get past Gilligan's Island)

#54 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-07-14 11:58 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The video at the top of the thread is about wealth inequality in America.

If you are worried about wealth inequality in America, if you are worried incomes having risen since the 80s

The answer is simple, quit allowing unfettered unskilled illegal immigration into the country.

Its right there in the equation for the coefficient.

More poor people makes the inequality greater...... its not difficult, and its not the Billionaires fault.

#55 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-07-14 12:07 PM | Reply

The answer is simple, quit allowing unfettered unskilled illegal immigration into the country.

More poor people makes the inequality greater...... its not difficult, and its not the Billionaires fault.

#55 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

Tell that to the billionaire owned corporations hiring them.

More poor unfettered illegal immigrants means dirt cheap labor and higher profits.

It is the billionaires fault.

#56 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-07-14 12:17 PM | Reply

It's in the ------- name...and the 25 point plan that the National Socialist pushed forward as their platform.

#33 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER AT 2019-07-14 10:23 AM | REPLY |

East Germany called itself the German Democratic Republic
North Korea calls itself the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

Names are not always descriptive. My Aunt was a socialist. She fought Nazis in WWII alongside the Socialists in France. She was a member of the Roberts Commission, titled American Commission for the Protection and Salvage of Artistic and Historic Monuments in War Areas. She received a Congressional Gold Medal for her work. The Nazis were right wing conservative Nationalists. My Aunt helped smuggle over 2000 people out of Nazi controlled France. She hid Konrad Heiden when he was Persona Non Grata for writing the unauthorized biography of Hitler. Her picture is on the wall of a room in the Halocaust Museum in Washington DC dedicated to people who fought hitler as leaders of the resistance. She has been the subject of several books, Documentaries, and has been prtrayed as a character in several movies.

I knew her well and spent a lot of time talking with her. Many of the socialists she fought alongside ended up in concentration camps. Hitler hated socialism

#57 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-07-14 12:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

They have given jobs to untold millions of people, EDS, Microsoft, Oracle, Google, Facebook, Paypal.
The list of Billionaires that have enabled Billions of people around the globe to participate in the worlds economy is nearly endless.

The fortune 500 companies employ 26 million employees worldwide. If we pretend that all of their employees are American then they employ about 1//6th of the workforce but they have revenues representing 2/3 of the US GDP. 5/6th of the workforce are employed by NON fortune 500 companies.

Consumers create demand creates jobs. If a company has demand for 5000 widgets a month and each worker can make 2 widgets a month they will hire 2500 employees and no amount of wealth will make them "create" a 2501th job making widgets they wont be able to sell. Wealth does not create jobs.

Most jobs are created by startups. Most startups are credit based, not wealth based

#58 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-07-14 12:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

More poor people makes the inequality greater...... its not difficult, and its not the Billionaires fault.

#55 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

There are way more poor. They outnumber the rich. So who has more actual power? You could stop letting billionaires in as there are less of them. Or maybe once you become a billionaire we should charge you more for everything. The poor pay a surcharge for being so poor (higher interest rates, etc.) So the rich should pay a surcharge for being so rich.

Fair is fair.

#59 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-07-14 12:43 PM | Reply

There are way more poor. They outnumber the rich. So who has more actual power?

Thats how things are, and they will always be, while not perfect our Democratic/Republic is a good system to let the small man have a say. What I hear all these TopDownSocialist say is GIVE US ALL THE MONEY and we will distribute it "Fairly" ...

We know how that turns out ....

You could stop letting billionaires in as there are less of them.

What does this mean, are Billionaires becoming citizens? Why? For the Taxes? LOL you have no idea what you are talking about.

Or maybe once you become a billionaire we should charge you more for everything.

Trust me, they are paying more for just about everything.

The poor pay a surcharge for being so poor (higher interest rates, etc.)

No, they pay a surcharge because they have no assets and are unreliable.

Fair is fair.

Define "fair"?

#60 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-07-14 12:53 PM | Reply

Most jobs are created by startups. Most startups are credit based, not wealth based
#58 | POSTED BY HATTER5183

Agreed, hence the idea that they have helped Billions of people around the globe, its known as the network effect. These Billionaires don't just enable their employees, but the customers and the customers customers, of their systems.

Startups are built on the ideas and functionality of these Billionaires.

You become a Billionaire by building a value generating system upon which other people can use and generate wealth.

#61 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-07-14 12:56 PM | Reply

Consumers create demand creates jobs.

You can't have it both ways .... per your "most jobs created by startups" they have no product, its a risk.

Investments by Billionaires/Millionaires create differentiating products via startups, which then creates consumer demand.

You only see the successes, I have seen many many many startups fail because the customers didn't demand the product, but the startups still created jobs.

#62 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-07-14 12:59 PM | Reply

There's nothing more pathetic than a non-billionaire sticking up for billionaires.

You're a tool, Mackris.

#63 | Posted by JOE at 2019-07-14 01:04 PM | Reply

You're a tool, Mackris.
#63 | POSTED BY JOE

Perhaps ... but I am smarter than you, at the very least I can least argue a point and not resort to name calling as just about every response to my posts has generated.

#64 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-07-14 01:06 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Yep. You're a genius!

#65 | Posted by JOE at 2019-07-14 01:10 PM | Reply

Perhaps ... but I am smarter than you, at the very least I can least argue a point and not resort to name calling as just about every response to my posts has generated.

#64 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

Everything you say is easily refuted.

You're not smart, you're a Quisling for the 1%.

You better get your sailboat ready for your bon voyage to New Zealand the second the pitchforks come out.

The Plutocrats and their Quisling lackeys will have to answer for their greed, connivance, and obstinance.

#66 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-07-14 01:18 PM | Reply

"Which is why the fundamental law of capitalism must be: If workers have more money, businesses have more customers. Which makes middle-class consumers, not rich businesspeople like us, the true job creators. Which means a thriving middle class is the source of American prosperity, not a consequence of it. The middle class creates us rich people, not the other way around."

-Nick Hanauer (American Billionaire & Entrepreneur)

This is what I've always believed too.

#67 | Posted by shane at 2019-07-14 02:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"India has pulled 270Million people out of poverty in a decade, and YES a few billionaires were along for the ride."

Globalization did that.

Millionaires and billionaires did that.

If you want that to stop, there is no better way than through socialism.

#68 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-07-14 03:15 PM | Reply

"Millionaires and billionaires did that."

Nonsense. The markets did that. Markets made up of average workers and consumers.

Without the markets, millionaires and billionaires wouldn't be.

#69 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-07-14 03:18 PM | Reply

"He was the solution, which is why he split among Dems and Repubs, breaking up the duopolistic industry.
#50 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS"

In that case, he was a failure.
The two party system is as strong as ever.

#70 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-14 03:19 PM | Reply

"Many of the socialists she fought alongside ended up in concentration camps. Hitler hated socialism."

So did Mussolini.

Did you ever ask your aunt what she thought of the Communists? Hitler and Mussolini both disliked Socialists...because they were beholden to Moscow.

Your aunt almost certainly held the communists in high regards, despite the fact that they were even more prolific killers than the Nazis.

#71 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-07-14 03:19 PM | Reply

"Globalization did that.
Millionaires and billionaires did that."

Why no mention of government price controls, government taxing and spending, and government welfare?
Because you're a one-trick pony.

#72 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-14 03:21 PM | Reply

"Your aunt almost certainly held the communists in high regards, despite the fact that they were even more prolific killers than the Nazis."

LOL!!!

You almost certainly hold Western Civilization in high regards, despite the fact that Western Civilization includes both Communists and Nazis.

#73 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-14 03:24 PM | Reply

"You better get your sailboat ready for your bon voyage to New Zealand the second the pitchforks come out."

When children throw a fit, you ground them.

Oh, and if you want the US to look like Venezuela, the best way to do it is chase away all of those who are currently paying the bills.

#74 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-07-14 03:25 PM | Reply

"When children throw a fit, you ground them."

Labor is not free to move from country to country looking for more favorable markets.
Only capital is free to move from country to country looking for more favorable markets.

Workers are the children.
Capitalists are the ones doing the grounding.

Excellent analogy.

#75 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-14 03:35 PM | Reply

Startups are built on the ideas and functionality of these Billionaires.

#61 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS AT 2019-07-14 12:56 PM

Most startups are built by people with $50,000 and a dream and the billionaires have nothing to do with it. The raw numbers don't lie. There are only 607 billionaires in the US. There are 75,000-100,000 startups every year. Billionaires invest most of their money in stocks, not startups. Most startups are sole proprieterships at first.

#76 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-07-14 03:37 PM | Reply

Most startups are built by people with $50,000 and a dream and the billionaires have nothing to do with it.

Its not that they make only investments, its that they utilize systems the Billionaires have created or invested in.

VISA/PayPal/Ebay
Refineries.
Amazon.
Etsy.
Phone Systems.
Cable companies.
Internet Searches.
Social communication and advertising of products.
Operating Systems.
Software Applications.
Uber

The list is long ... again study the network effect, you can't sell your product without their help.

Its cheaper to expose and purchase a product to billions of people because of these systems. You can't do it alone, all startups rely upon these systems. Thats the business to be a Billionaire, invest in systems to help people sell/manufacture/market/build their products.

#77 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-07-14 03:53 PM | Reply

Billionaires invest most of their money in stocks, not startups.

You haven't been around the SiliconValley, I understand your impression. But every Billionaire invests in companies, they have special access known as being an accredited investor. The don't invest on eTrade, they own eTrade.

Pick a Billionaire/MultiMillionaire, they don't just invest in stocks ... like you or I do.

#78 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-07-14 03:56 PM | Reply

Labor is not free to move from country to country looking for more favorable markets.

Define FREE?

Only capital is free to move from country to country looking for more favorable markets.

Define Only?

There are an enormous amount of talented people in Silicon Valley that don't call America their home.

#79 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-07-14 04:01 PM | Reply

Wealth is a measure of discipline.
Greed is good

Trump's Family Fortune Originated in a Canadian Gold-Rush Brothel

www.bloomberg.com

#80 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-07-14 04:59 PM | Reply

Why does the left so hate successful people?

#81 | Posted by MSgt at 2019-07-14 05:04 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

It's a billionaire's world, we just live in it.

Anyone disagree?

#82 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-14 05:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

if you want the US to look like Venezuela, the best way to do it is chase away all of those who are currently paying the bills.

#74 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

1. Democratic-Socialism is modelled after Scandinavian countries, not Venezuela. In the last 5 years this has been explained a jillion times.

2. Warren Buffett's secretary has a higher tax burden than billionaire Buffett himself ... so clearly you're wrong, again.

#83 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-07-14 05:54 PM | Reply

"if you want the US to look like Venezuela, the best way to do it is chase away all of those who are currently paying the bills."

What if we want the USA to look like Sweden?

#84 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-14 05:59 PM | Reply

Too few whetos for that.

#85 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-07-14 07:03 PM | Reply

Oh, and if you want the US to look like Venezuela, the best way to do it is chase away all of those who are currently paying the bills.

#74 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER AT 2019-07-14 03:25 PM |

Is there some threat that we are going to convert NYC and California to Conservative values? We will keep our liberal values and keep paying the bills for the red states

#86 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-07-14 09:52 PM | Reply

"Warren Buffett's secretary has a higher tax burden than billionaire Buffett"

Warren Buffett's secretary has a higher percentage of federal tax burden than billionaire Buffett"

Specificity matters.

#87 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-07-14 11:25 PM | Reply

"1. Democratic-Socialism is modelled after Scandinavian countries, not Venezuela. In the last 5 years this has been explained a jillion times."

The Scandinavia countries are a prime example of what you're calling "Democratic Socialists" being able to prosper and thrive specifically because they have capitalist sponsorship. But they are only able to prosper because those who pay the bills are willing to do so. If the bill payers in Sweden decided they no longer wanted to pay those bills, there is really no way the government could force them to in the long game. If the bill payers in Sweden decided they didn't want to pay the bills, Sweden would be forced to alter it's social welfare practices and adapt to an economic environment where they didn't have a large supply of taxpayer income to redistribute.

And if the government chose not to adapt, and instead to tried to force those bill payers to continue paying bills, they would leave Sweden, and Sweden would slowly become a colder version of Venezuela.

#88 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-07-15 04:10 AM | Reply

"What if we want the USA to look like Sweden?"

That's fine. You just have to clear it with your capitalist sponsors first...make sure they're going to be willing to foot the bill.

#89 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-07-15 04:11 AM | Reply

Warren Buffett's secretary has a higher percentage of federal tax burden than billionaire Buffett"

Specificity matters.

#87 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Don't make the mistake of getting bogged down in details.

www.politifact.com

Buffett's op-ed says his tax rate is lower than his employees' because money made off investments is taxed at a lower rate than wage income.

"If you make money with money, as some of my super-rich friends do, your percentage may be a bit lower than mine.

But if you earn money from a job, your percentage will surely exceed mine -- most likely by a lot," Buffett said.


Keep it simple.

Workers are taxed at higher rates than billionaires, period.

#90 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-07-15 07:09 AM | Reply

Definitely get bogged down in the details.

Workers can make investments and often do. How much do you want to tax them on those?

#91 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-07-15 08:08 AM | Reply

I feel like Pinch may have been a bit too late. He would have made a welcomed addition to the Cheka.

#92 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-07-15 08:24 AM | Reply

Or maybe served alongside other "fellow travelers" in the Bavarian Soviet Republic.

#93 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-07-15 08:25 AM | Reply

"Workers are taxed at higher rates than billionaires, period."

Not in all cases. Period.

#94 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-07-15 11:17 AM | Reply

-Don't make the mistake of getting bogged down in details.

The only mistake Danforth made was attempting to clarify something relative simple for you.

#95 | Posted by eberly at 2019-07-15 11:23 AM | Reply

There are an enormous amount of talented people in Silicon Valley that don't call America their home.

#79 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

They should go back to whatever crap hole country they came from and leave this country to the stupid old white Men from Caucasia.

#96 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-07-15 11:54 AM | Reply

Definitely get bogged down in the details.

Workers can make investments and often do. How much do you want to tax them on those?

#91 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

I feel like Pinch may have been a bit too late. He would have made a welcomed addition to the Cheka.

#92 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Not in all cases. Period.

#94 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

The only mistake Danforth made was attempting to clarify something relative simple for you.

#95 | POSTED BY EBERLY

You four ladies are menstruating all the same time.

But I get it -- you all know the volumes of tax code better than the battalions of tax-lawyers paid by the billionaires to find and navigate all the tax loopholes.

Keep it simple, ding dongs.

Buffett's secretary has a higher tax burden than billionaire Buffett himself.

#97 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-07-15 10:28 PM | Reply

"Keep it simple, ding dongs."

For who? The ding dongs, like you?

Why didn't you say so?

#98 | Posted by eberly at 2019-07-15 10:32 PM | Reply

For who?

#98 | POSTED BY EBERLY

For girl scouts like you, that's who.

Buffett says his secretary has a lower tax burden, but doofuses like you (and the rest of the Chucklehead Brigade) start chiming in that you all know better ...

Hilarious

Here's some advice, Evelyn ... keep, it, simply, stupid(s).

#99 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2019-07-15 10:38 PM | Reply

BedpanPinch, let's be honest.....it's not hilarious to you.

#100 | Posted by eberly at 2019-07-15 10:41 PM | Reply

"But I get it -- you all know the volumes of tax code better than the battalions of tax-lawyers paid by the billionaires..."

No, not claiming that at all. Simply claiming the terms you're using are incorrect. I certainly know the tax code well enough to know you don't choose your terms carefully enough.

"Buffett says his secretary has a lower tax burden..."

Well, she does.

What Buffet also says is, his secretary pays a higher percentage of her overall income in federal taxes than he does...which is true, since she makes about 85K, less than the SS tax limit.

"Buffett's secretary has a higher tax burden than billionaire Buffett himself."

No she doesn't. Burden means raw dollars, and Buffet pays more. By making that claim, you're allowing every debater to prove you wrong, easily. I'll repeat: specificity matters, and your claim is false, period. Please reread this carefully: Buffet says his secretary pays a higher percentage of her overall income in federal taxes than he does.

If you don't understand the difference between the two statements, please get out of the discussion now, and stay out until you learn.

#101 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-07-16 12:02 AM | Reply

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