Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, July 12, 2019

Top figures in the conservative legal community are stunned and depressed by President Trump's cave in his fight for a citizenship question on the 2020 Census. Sources say Leonard Leo and other Federalist Society stalwarts were shocked and floored by how weak the decision was. "What was the dance ... all about if this was going to be the end result?" a conservative leader asked. "A total waste of everyone's time. ... It's certainly going to give people pause the next time one has to decide how far to stick one's neck out."

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What was Trump's "dance" for? The dance is the point.

#1 | Posted by Zed at 2019-07-12 11:26 AM | Reply

They had already been printing for days, somehow I knew he had to back down.

#2 | Posted by danni at 2019-07-12 11:38 AM | Reply


@#1 ... The dance is the point. ...

That's pretty much my view as well.

What I also wonder is... while he was focusing on the cennsus question mess he stirred up, what wasn't he paying attention to?

#3 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-07-12 11:41 AM | Reply

Note that with Trump halting his attempt to get the courts to rule in his favor he avoids the next step in the litigation process, discovery, which would have required his administration to turn over to the plaintiffs ALL of the emails, memos, text messages and other communications related to the effort to add the citizenship question to the 2020 census. This could have also included any and all communications with the recently deceased election consultant who said that reducing the number of people responding to the census would benefit "Republicans and non-Hispanic whites".

Trump could not allow any of this material to be seen by the public since it would have confirmed that the entire effort was for one purpose and one purpose only, to create an under-count that would harm large urban areas, where Democrats do better in elections, and would artificially increase the power of rural states where Republicans generally do better. It would also divert more resources from urban areas to rural regions of the country, again with the intention of harming traditionally Democratic states and diverting those resources to Republican states. Trump can now claim (and campaign on) that his rational for the citizenship question was legitimate all along, just that the courts never gave him and his people enough time to properly demonstrate that legitimacy.

OCU

#4 | Posted by OCUser at 2019-07-12 04:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Does Trumps hair have multiple parts?

#5 | Posted by Tor at 2019-07-12 05:07 PM | Reply

OCU

All good points for sure. But when the Supreme Court tells him to stop wasting their time with his b.s. arguments, there's little chance he'll succeed with bigger and better lies.

The DOJ's whole team of lawyers took themselves off the census argument because of ethical concerns.

Trump is all huff and no puff. The Supreme justices don't live in a hermetically sealed bubble. Roberts know Trump's modus operandi as well as anybody. Roberts has a long history of preventing his court from being used by disingenuous hucksters like Trump.

Trump's doing his usual "I won!" dance because he has no choice. Just as I said a few days ago, now he's resorting to his lesser options, claiming they're better anyway. Then he'll make up a bunch of lies about that, too.

Trump is 100% predictable.

#6 | Posted by Twinpac at 2019-07-12 05:12 PM | Reply

Look at the picture..at the evidence there
A man who's under the control of some very strange hair
it could be an alien, disguised as a coiffure
or another putin plot..I'm really not sure
all I know for certain is that a sad word will be said
when trump ventures outside with that thing on his head

#7 | Posted by 1947steamer at 2019-07-12 06:16 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Here's s FYI for all the yahoo's here on this subject: The citizenship question was first placed on the Census back in 1879 [yes that is the 1800s] and stayed on it until obama had it removed in 2010. SO, it is not like President Trump is unreasonable as we leave unreasonableness to you yahoo's on the left.

#8 | Posted by MSgt at 2019-07-12 06:53 PM | Reply

Here's s FYI for all the yahoo's here on this subject: The citizenship question was first placed on the Census back in 1879 [yes that is the 1800s] and stayed on it until obama had it removed in 2010. SO, it is not like President Trump is unreasonable as we leave unreasonableness to you yahoo's on the left.

#8 | Posted by MSgt

Nothing like someone entering a thread, insulting others, and then claiming to have the real info on the topic, before proving you know nothing except republican propaganda.

fortune.com
"Did Obama Remove the Citizenship Question From the U.S. Census? Fact Check"

"Former President Barack Obama did not eliminate a question about citizenship from the 2010 census, as blogs and social media posts have falsely reported in recent days.
The inaccurate claims have spread widely online since the Supreme Court ruled 5-4 against the Trump administration in its push to add the proposed citizenship question on the 2020 form."

But thanks for reminding us how eagerly you swallow republican lies.

#9 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-07-12 07:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"The citizenship question was first placed on the Census back in 1879 [yes that is the 1800s] and stayed on it until obama had it removed in 2010."

That's just not correct.
I was a Census Enumerator in 2010 and there was a question about nationality.
There was no question about legal resident status.

I got some funny answers to the nationality question like "Malaysian-American" and "Citizen of the world." It's a free-form response field; people can answer however they choose.

#10 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-12 07:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

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Thank you, SNOOFY.

That was a nice lesson for Mr. MSgt.

You never know who you're going to run into on this site.

#11 | Posted by Twinpac at 2019-07-12 07:39 PM | Reply

Snoofy' was this short form what you were dealing with on 2010, [note that as I stated the 2010 one did not ask the question]. Out of curiosity, what was it like to go up to strangers and ask question? Were they all 'forthcoming, etc? Unlike you, I would not want that job, so kudos to you for doing that.

2010 apportionment announcement

View larger image
Commerce Secretary Gary Lock, Acting Commerce Deputy Secretary
Rebecca Blank, and Census Bureau Director Robert Groves (above)
unveiled the official counts from the 2010 Census at the National
Press Club in Washington, D.C., on December 21, 2010.
For the 2010 census, the long- and short-form questionnaires used from 1940 to 2000 were replaced by a single questionnaire asking 10 questions. The questions asked by the long-form questionnaire are now asked by the annual American Community Survey.

The 2010 census asked the following ten questions:

How many people were living or staying in this house, apartment, or mobile home on April 1, 2010?
Were there any additional people staying here April 1, 2010 that you did not include in Question 1?
Is this house, apartment, or mobile home: owned with mortgage, owned without mortgage, rented, occupied without rent?
What is your telephone number?
Please provide information for each person living here. Start with a person here who owns or rents this house, apartment, or mobile home. If the owner or renter lives somewhere else, start with any adult living here. This will be Person 1. What is Person 1's name?
What is Person 1's sex?
What is Person 1's age and Date of Birth?
Is Person 1 of Hispanic, Latino, or Spanish origin?
What is Person 1's race?
Does Person 1 sometimes live or stay somewhere else?

#12 | Posted by MSgt at 2019-07-12 07:40 PM | Reply

Snoofy' was this short form what you were dealing with on 2010, [note that as I stated the 2010 one did not ask the question].

#12 | Posted by MSgt

That doesn't mean OBAMA REMOVED THE QUESTION!

You just fell for republican propaganda as usual.

#13 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-07-12 08:00 PM | Reply

"Out of curiosity, what was it like to go up to strangers and ask question?"

Complete mixed bag.

College kids who didn't know if they were supposed to respond, because they're from out of state.
People who told me to go away or they'd call the cops, to which I would respond, the cops will tell you I'm allowed to be here, so maybe can you just answer "how many people live here" and I'll go away.
People who welcomed me in and offered me bong hits (also college students).
Random people I wasn't enumerating, but saw me in the hallway and told me the people in that apartment are all illegals.
People who couldn't read and write.

#14 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-12 08:01 PM | Reply

You just fell for republican propaganda as usual.

POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2019-07-12 08:00 PM | REPLY

Republicans are Dummkopfs like that.

#15 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-07-12 08:13 PM | Reply

That's just not correct.
I was a Census Enumerator in 2010 and there was a question about nationality.

Where?
www.census.gov

Nationality was removed in 2010. Only race was there ... which isn't Nationality by a long shot.

IT was removed from in 2010 because the ACS covers it, at least thats the story, and the long form, which did ask it was discontinued.
www.npr.org

#16 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-07-12 08:27 PM | Reply

IT = citizenship question.

#17 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-07-12 08:27 PM | Reply

In fact, Obama's was the first to not include a question on citizenship, naturalization, or nativity in almost 200 years.

#18 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-07-12 08:29 PM | Reply

"In fact, Obama's was the first to not include a question on citizenship, naturalization, or nativity in almost 200 years."

That's incorrect, since I not only asked the question "What is your nationality" I got responses like "Malaysian-American" and "Citizen of the world," as I already mentioned up in #10.

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-12 08:53 PM | Reply

My bad, I was wrong. Sorry for the misinformation.

The form ask race, not nationality, then list a bunch of what I'd call nationalities (other than white and black) as suggested answers.
When I see the question again I can understand how I got "race" and "nationality" mixed up.

The question is:
6. Please look at List D and choose one or more races. For this census, Hispanic origin is not a race.
What is (Name's) race?
Read if necessary:
Examples of other Asian groups include Hmong, Laotian, Thai, Pakistani, Cambodian, and so on.
Example of other Pacific Islader groups include Fijian, Tongan, and so on.

The response options for race are:
White, American Indian, Japanese, Native Hawaiian, Black; African American; or Negro, Chinese, Korean, Guatemalan or Chamorro, American Indian or Alskan Native, Filipino, Vietnamese, Samoan, Some other race (fill in the blank)

The Non-Response Follow-Up questionnaire is not the same as the regular one that comes in the mail.
You can see the NRFU form here, about 2/3 the way down,
www.census.gov

#20 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-12 09:06 PM | Reply

That being said, the 2000 short form does not ask about nationality. It asks the same questions as 2010 about hispanic origin and race. www.census.gov

The 2000 long form does ask if the person is a citizen of the United States, but all the answers are yes/no, and there's no "I'm not a citizen and I'm here illegally" option. www.census.gov

So, this question as asked in 2000 wouldn't help determine legal status.

#21 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-12 09:12 PM | Reply

I actually thought it was fairly racist on the part of the U.S. government to declare "white" is a race, and "Thai" is also a race.
By that logic, "American" should be a race, and "white" should be something else, or the "race" options should be white, black, brown, tan, high yella, etc.

But I understand it's because we are a nation of immigrants.

#22 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-12 09:14 PM | Reply

The last time the citizenship question was on the US census was in 1950.

www.politifact.com

BTW, a question about nationality does NOT establish the status of an individual's citizenship. My nationality is Flemish/Alsatian (and I have the DNA report to prove it) but that does not diminish the fact that I was born in Northern Michigan.

OCU

#23 | Posted by OCUser at 2019-07-12 09:20 PM | Reply

What's the point of being a true believer in an extremist cause if you can't enjoy the glory of going down in flames after a doomed effort? That is the far right wing mind-set in a nutshell.

#24 | Posted by moder8 at 2019-07-12 09:47 PM | Reply

#10, 11

Small world, I was a crew leader and then became the FOS when my boss took over another district near the end in 2010. As fluent in Spanish, I had the unenviable task of explaining to reluctant Spanish speakers in Tea Party Ohioland that we are not trying to discover their immigration status, only to get a count of everyone living there. It sucks I may have now lied to them about the motives this time around. What a bunch of horsebleep.

#25 | Posted by bocaink at 2019-07-12 11:03 PM | Reply

Census data has been misused in the past, so the best way to prevent misuse is to not collect the kinds of data than can be misused.

Unless you're so naive you trust the government to not misuse data!

I'd wager zero percent of the people who want to use the Census to combat illegal immigration trust the government to not misuse data.

It's just that, in this case, they don't think turning the Census into a witch hunt is a misuse of data.

#26 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-12 11:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

When will Democrats get off their bums and fix all the problems trumpy has been creating?

It's a National Emergy folks!

#27 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-07-13 10:16 AM | Reply

"Unless you're so naive you trust the government to not misuse data!"

Whaaaa?

Humpy would never misuse data! Wait. Is misusing data the same as lying?

Oh dear. We are fooked.

#28 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-07-13 10:19 AM | Reply

You folks are missing the big picture. I know that the Federal Agencies hate to share their data with another agency. They would normally fight to keep their data to themselves, remember, information is power. What has happen is far worse than sampling asking "Are you and American Citizen Yes / No." Trump has done what I have long feared the Feds would do. He has ordered all Federal agencies to turn over their list of people in the country and if they are citizens or not. To do this effectively, they would need to include Name, Social Security Number, date of birth, address, citizenship status. The data base will have to be formatted in such a way as to compare it against the other databases to remove duplicates. Information from HHS, (food stamps, housing, Medicare, Medicaid, SSN, primary base, which will show real name for number, IRS tax records, CBP pending court cases or court orders. I think you get the picture. I hope the ACLU moves fast on this and stops it. The Fed's having that kind of data concerns me. Not with Trump, he is really to stupid to understand what he has. But a lot of people in DC (Republican and Democrat) would understand it and that would be a disaster.

#29 | Posted by LittleJake at 2019-07-13 10:41 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Trump, and right-wingers, would love to purge the citizenship rolls, for people who were improperly made citizens.

#30 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-13 02:13 PM | Reply

Trump could not allow any of this material to be seen by the public since it would have confirmed that the entire effort was for one purpose and one purpose only, to create an under-count that would harm large urban areas...

#4 | POSTED BY OCUSER

I don't think this even entered into their decision making. While it probably would prove what you say, Republicans don't care. The Republican base would be MORE LIKELY to vote for him if they know he is rigging the election in their favor, not less. They have no sense of ethics or morality. To Republicans, what is "right" is what most furthers their self-interest.

#31 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2019-07-13 02:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"I actually thought it was fairly racist on the part of the U.S. government to declare "white" is a race, and "Thai" is also a race. "

White is not a race and I am not white. If there is white on me I go to the doctor and I gets the lotion and puts it on my skin.

When the race question is put to me now I say I am a Mutt.

From Muttasia.

#32 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-07-14 12:15 PM | Reply

Dummy TRump tries to do some evil on Obama and actually did something good for the country as that TPP treaty was a corporate enslavement package. Somebody should tell him he looks like Obama and maybe he will cut his own head off.

#33 | Posted by Tknees2 at 2019-07-14 01:47 PM | Reply

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