Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, July 11, 2019

[Texas] lawmakers -- who meet only once every two years in a state resistant to the trammels of politics -- realized they'd failed to renew the law authorizing the State Board of Plumbing Examiners.

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I have a neighbor who used an unlicensed plumber in her condo unit which is exactly the same floorplan as the one below her. She was having her bathroom remodeled. The unlicensed plumber caused a flood that forced her to remodel the bathroom right below hers at a cost of several thousand dollars in addition to her own. Then after it was all finished I looked at it, the ulicensed plumber had not installed any shut off valves.

#1 | Posted by danni at 2019-07-11 02:30 PM | Reply

Isn't licensing plumbers elitism?

#2 | Posted by Zed at 2019-07-11 02:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

We don't need no stinkin' regulations. The free market is perfect.

Also, who know plumbing was so complicated.

#3 | Posted by bored at 2019-07-11 02:53 PM | Reply

It's rare they forget to renew anti-immigrant legislation.

#4 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-07-11 02:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1


From the cited article:

..."Last I checked Texans elect Legislators and a Governor. Not a King," Republican Representative Jonathan Stickland wrote on Twitter. (Stickland has since announced he won't run for reelection after attracting unwanted attention for calling vaccine research "sorcery.")

The Institute for Justice is examining Abbott's order and hasn't ruled out legal action, Panju says. Thierer says the governor is fighting the salubrious effects of an open market. "The real disaster here is that Texans are going to be denied greater choices in competition for affordable plumbing when they might need it most," he adds.

Gomez describes a more nuanced view on a recent morning while driving to fix a balky water heater. "We like our freedom. We don't like to be regulated," he says. "But there are certain regulations that are really important."

BOTTOM LINE - The unintentional dissolution of Texas' plumbers' licensing board has created a pro-regulation movement in a state that is typically on the forefront of deregulatory efforts. ...


#5 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-07-11 03:41 PM | Reply

I have a neighbor who used an unlicensed plumber in her condo unit which is exactly the same floorplan as the one below her. She was having her bathroom remodeled. The unlicensed plumber caused a flood that forced her to remodel the bathroom right below hers at a cost of several thousand dollars in addition to her own. Then after it was all finished I looked at it, the ulicensed plumber had not installed any shut off valves.

#1 | Posted by danni

Failing to go and get a permit and the inspections that come with it would be where your friend screwed herself.
FYI in most localities if you read the plumbing code you will see its illegal to work on a "plumbing system" unless you are a journeyman or registered apprentice under guidance of a journeyman licensed Plumber.This means you don't have to pay if the worker was unqualified even if they do the job right.

#6 | Posted by Scotty at 2019-07-11 03:49 PM | Reply

This will put me out of business!
-- Joe the (unlicensed) plumber

#7 | Posted by catdog at 2019-07-11 09:14 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

That's plumb crazy!

#8 | Posted by cbob at 2019-07-11 09:24 PM | Reply

Poor conservatives.
Poor entrepreneurs.
They're just begging for government to save them from the free market by imposing regulations.

The legislature should not help them.
Plumbers should learn to help themselves.

#9 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-11 09:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

That's plumb crazy!

POSTED BY CBOB AT 2019-07-11 09:24 PM | REPLY

Oh stick it up your P Trap.

#10 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-07-11 09:32 PM | Reply

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fwiw, New York and Kansas also do not regulate plumbers.

From the article:

...The board's demise suited some people fine. In states such as New York and Kansas where plumbers aren't regulated, there's no evidence the public has been endangered, says Adam Thierer, a senior research fellow at the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, which has been heavily funded by Charles and David Koch....


#11 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-07-11 09:56 PM | Reply

Isn't licensing plumbers elitism?

#2 | POSTED BY ZED AT 2019-07-11 02:33 PM | FLAG:

It's socialism and big government too. people should be free to hire the plumber they want. If your plumber ruins your home, then don't hire that one next time. That's how capitalism works you texan communists.

#12 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-07-11 10:06 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1


Personally, I'd prefer know if a plumber that I ask to help me actually knows what she or he is doing. While licensing does not guarantee that, it helps. A lot.

(this song just came up on the playlist...
Duncan Sheik - Ghost In You
www.youtube.com
good tune, can finally understand the lyrics...)

Where was I.. Oh yeah.

One time I had to call an electrician. I have some power monitoring equipment installed in my house ( www.dranetz.com for details). I noticed that the voltage coming into my house was low. So I called the electric company, Eversource.

They promptly came to my house and disconnected my ouse from the power lines because I had an old meter box. (it was not high enough from the ground)

I was out on a bicycle ride, about 10 miles from my house when my house monitoring system called me to tell me the power was off. (just what you want to hear when you're on a bicycle ten miles from home. But I digress....)

I get home, noticing that my house is the only one without power on the street. I call Eversource and they tell me I have to replace the meter box. Oh joy.

Long story short (probably too late for that...)

I hire an electrician to do the necessary work.

The town building inspector stops by and "suggests" some improvements in what the electrician did.

So call the electrician and he makes the changes.

Bottom line.. (yeah, you had to know I'd get here eventually...)

What the electrician did would work, but it was not strictly "up to code."

OK, (and thank you if you are still with me at this point...) so tell me, how would my experience have been different if the electrician were regulated or not?


#13 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-07-11 10:23 PM | Reply

"how would my experience have been different if the electrician were regulated or not?"

They would have been held accountable for knowing their field of supposed expertise. That's what it means to be a professional.

#14 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-07-11 10:32 PM | Reply

I don't know how many plumbers are running around Kansas without a license.

If you want to pull a permit....you have to have a license and insurance. If you want to work for a general contractor....you'll need a license and insurance.

Doesn't mean there aren't unlicensed plumbers but I have no idea how many out there aren't licensed.

#15 | Posted by eberly at 2019-07-11 10:38 PM | Reply


@#14 ... They would have been held accountable for knowing their field of supposed expertise. ...

Bingo!

As my long, rambling comment says, the electrician came back and fixed what the building inspector flagged as a problem.

No charge.

#16 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-07-11 10:44 PM | Reply

"how would my experience have been different if the electrician were regulated or not?"

My son is an electrician who works on mega yachts which usually have engineers as part of the crew. The stories he could tell you about the morons playing with elctricity are often humorous though sometimes they describe situations that are truly dangerous. Trades are important, be it plumbing or whatever. You need people doing those jobs who know what they are doing. to have morons with no training working on ssystems they don't really understand can be dangerous. I know this much, if I see a unit owner having an unqualified plumber or electrician here to work on they unit I will demand to see their license and if they don't have one they are gone and I don't care what the unit owner has to say about it. This is a big problem in South Florida where you have hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of illegal aliens desperate for work so they pretend to know what they are doing on virtually any job they think they might be able to do. Usually, they don't have a clue about what they are actually trying to do. I don't blame them they need to eat but I don't want them burning my building down.

#17 | Posted by danni at 2019-07-12 07:18 AM | Reply

Not sure in Kansas and NY (and now TX) but in NC lowes, home depot, and ACE will not sell you gasflex without a license number. The license to run gas is a plumbing license. So I guess in those states do they sell it to anyone?

One thing I love about NextDoor is the recommendations. If you have 40 people recommending the same plumber then honestly I don't care if they have a license or not. At the same time if you have 2 people bad mouthing a plumber I also don't care if they have a license or not. If I ever have a trades person tell me they don't like NextDoor I run, if you do good work they only issue you might have with NextDoor is that you get too much work.

#18 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2019-07-12 07:49 AM | Reply

Conservative government in Texas is a counter-productive parasite. It's exactly what conservatives bitch about, and it's them.

#19 | Posted by Zed at 2019-07-12 08:24 AM | Reply

how would my experience have been different if the electrician were regulated or not?

Even if you've managed to produce one anecdote in which a tradesman might not need to have been licensed, i hope to god you realize that isn't a valid argument against licensing tradesmen as a whole.

#20 | Posted by JOE at 2019-07-12 08:35 AM | Reply

"how would my experience have been different if the electrician were regulated or not?"

You're trying to gauge the impact of regulatory policy by its impact on one event?
Isn't your IQ at least 15 points too high for your brain think that makes sense?

#21 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-12 08:50 AM | Reply

Not sure in Kansas and NY (and now TX) but in NC lowes, home depot, and ACE will not sell you gasflex without a license number. The license to run gas is a plumbing license. So I guess in those states do they sell it to anyone?

#18 | POSTED BY TAOWARRIOR AT 2019-07-12 07:49 AM | REPLY

That sounds like you need a license to hook up a gas dryer. It's 2 connections. You can buy flexible gas lines for those here in Texas, not an issue.

#22 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-07-12 08:52 AM | Reply

#22

Not the connectors but the actual gas flex that you run in the crawl space (or attic or wherever). This stuff www.homedepot.com not this stuff www.propaneproducts.com

#23 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2019-07-12 08:59 AM | Reply

With the switch in all new homes to manibloc and pex, there is increasingly little you need a licensed plumber for after the foundation is laid and you're connected to the sewer. If you can't figure out a manibloc... maybe that's the gun control we need. Can't work that plastic tube? No gun for you.

#24 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-07-12 08:59 AM | Reply

Not sure in Kansas and NY (and now TX) but in NC lowes, home depot, and ACE will not sell you gasflex without a license number. The license to run gas is a plumbing license. So I guess in those states do they sell it to anyone?
One thing I love about NextDoor is the recommendations. If you have 40 people recommending the same plumber then honestly I don't care if they have a license or not. At the same time if you have 2 people bad mouthing a plumber I also don't care if they have a license or not. If I ever have a trades person tell me they don't like NextDoor I run, if you do good work they only issue you might have with NextDoor is that you get too much work.

POSTED BY TAOWARRIOR AT 2019-07-12 07:49 AM | REPLY

Are you talking about that yellow accordian pipe for hot water heaters??

#25 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-07-12 09:02 AM | Reply

Not the connectors but the actual gas flex that you run in the crawl space (or attic or wherever). This stuff www.homedepot.com not this stuff www.propaneproducts.com

#23 | POSTED BY TAOWARRIOR AT 2019-07-12 08:59 AM | REPLY

The short hoses. Anybody can run that. That long hose is not code. It has to be hard line. It terminates near your appliance and the flex pipe hooks to that.

I know this, yet I'm not a licensed plumber...

#26 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-07-12 09:15 AM | Reply

"If I ever have a trades person tell me they don't like NextDoor I run, if you do good work they only issue you might have with NextDoor is that you get too much work."

I don't know bout next door but on many of these tradesman rating sites competitors can trash each other while pretending to be customers so I don't put much faith in any of them. What I do is to try different contractors until I find one I trust and then I stay with them even if they cost me a little more. I find that works for many things. My accountant just saved me $2500 bucks with Uncle Sam, trust me, I will be a loyal customer for life.

#27 | Posted by danni at 2019-07-12 09:16 AM | Reply

"I know this, yet I'm not a licensed plumber..."

Great for you but you will never fix a pipe in my condo building. Either produce your license or get lost.

#28 | Posted by danni at 2019-07-12 09:17 AM | Reply

Back in the 70s, I got a plumber's license in Texas. About the only part of that test that required some serious knowledge of code was the pluming that if you do it wrong, it will kill people, (gas). Installing gas is no trick, always test before you hook it up to the supply line. 20lbs for an hour, with less than 1/4 pound loss. Natural gas is usually runs at about 1/2 pound after it goes through regulator at your meter. The rest is "irrigation". Water only runs up hill under pressure and only runs down hill without. The truth, if you smell gas, find the leak now. If you cant, shut the supply off, and get a plumber to find it. Methane in a contained area is an excellent explosive. Always check your connections with soapy water when you hook up a utility like a water heater or stove.

#29 | Posted by docnjo at 2019-07-12 09:18 AM | Reply

And when your unlicensed moron screws up and floods your home or electrocutes himself in your home or burns down your home good luck when you try to submit an insurance claim.

#30 | Posted by danni at 2019-07-12 09:20 AM | Reply

Great for you but you will never fix a pipe in my condo building. Either produce your license or get lost.

#28 | POSTED BY DANNI AT 2019-07-12 09:17 AM | REPLY

The person that works on your condo will be an illegal immigrant with no license.

#31 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-07-12 09:46 AM | Reply

Good luck selling your house if you have has plumbing or electrical done without a permit. The buyer will walk or ask for a steep discount if discovered during inspection.

#32 | Posted by bored at 2019-07-12 10:08 AM | Reply

#30 | Posted by danni, Anyone with the ability to read and average intelligence can get a plumber's license. Being a plumber is the hard part. It is hard dirty work. Crawling under houses and digging up sewer lines is not particularly pleasant. About 80% of pluming work around here is the sewer line. Luckily running a "roto-rooter" does not require a plumber's license in Texas. I usually get a rack of beer to clear a line, If I feel like doing it.

#33 | Posted by docnjo at 2019-07-12 10:12 AM | Reply

#26

That long hose is 100% code if used right. Around here almost every house has a crawl space hard pipe runs to the main manifold then the flex runs from that to be stubbed out at the appliances.

#34 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2019-07-12 10:30 AM | Reply

"The person that works on your condo will be an illegal immigrant with no license."

Hey, I don't know the status of the guys who mow the lawn but I do know they aren't working on our pipes or our electical work. We even pulled a permit to replace part of a fence.

#35 | Posted by danni at 2019-07-12 10:38 AM | Reply

What Bored said is totally true, especially since 2008, because cities lost so much revenue when property values collapsed so they found fees and forfeitures was an available source of revenue. The cities aren't really so worried about safety but they want their fees.

#36 | Posted by danni at 2019-07-12 10:41 AM | Reply

Danni it's not uncommon for a plumber to have workers who work under his license. So it is possible.

#37 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2019-07-12 10:42 AM | Reply

--Hey, I don't know the status of the guys who mow the lawn

Sure you don't.

#38 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-07-12 10:45 AM | Reply

"Sure you don't."

They work for a contractor who works for a contractor but more importantly I don't care. Now get off Nulli's lawn!

#39 | Posted by danni at 2019-07-12 10:52 AM | Reply

I understand that Tao but the guy who has the license takes responsibility for whatever they do. It's the same with electrical contractors, when we had unions they were referred to as apprentices but since we let Republicans destroy the unions and the training that went with them we have to depend on licenses which are largely meaningless but that at least provide a company who can be sued if there is a problem. Unlicensed and uninsured contractors...good luck if there is a problem.

#40 | Posted by danni at 2019-07-12 10:55 AM | Reply

This is a big problem in South Florida where you have hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of illegal aliens desperate for work so they pretend to know what they are doing on virtually any job they think they might be able to do.~ Danni

It's rare they forget to renew anti-immigrant legislation.
#4 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG,

You won't find any illegal immigrants with licensing or credentials.

but since we let Republicans destroy the unions

Democrats destroyed unions, when illegal immigrants become #1. Hard to ask for leverage when there "hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions or illegal aliens desperate for work"

#41 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-07-12 11:14 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

They work for a contractor who works for a contractor but more importantly I don't care. Now get off Nulli's lawn!~Danni

Exactly how corporations do it, this is why companies don't employ janitors, the contract it out to another company which employs illegal immigrants. ....

See how illegal immigration destroyed unions yet?

#42 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-07-12 11:17 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Good luck selling your house if you have has plumbing or electrical done without a permit.

In the SFO BayArea its common place, if the market is hot people take the risk.

#43 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-07-12 11:18 AM | Reply

--Hard to ask for leverage when there "hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions or illegal aliens desperate for work"

Cesar Chavez might have been the last labor leader to vehemently oppose illegal immigration. The biggest labor donors to Democrats, the teachers and public employee unions, don't have to worry about competition from illegal labor.

#44 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-07-12 11:30 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Cesar Chavez might have been the last labor leader to vehemently oppose illegal immigration."

You've purposely misrepresented the facts several times on this issue. Chavez was against hirers busing in illegals FOR THE PURPOSE OF BUSTING THE UNION.

World of difference.

#45 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-07-12 12:08 PM | Reply

Weatherford, Texas - Edwin was getting out of a small swimming pool outside his house when he touched the side of the trailer home and was electrocuted, Star-Telegram media partner WFAA reported.

The Parker County Sheriff's Department hired an electrician to investigate the cause of the shock. The electrician determined an old breaker box that is not made anymore and improperly connected wires in the house's walls caused the shock.

The hot wire was tied to the aluminum walls of the trailer. The walls were also tied to ground. Nobody noticed for 20 years till a wet child stepped out of an inflatable pool, tripped and fell forward and touched the wall.

But not the only in Texas...

NEW BOSTON, Texas - After their 10-year-old daughter was electrocuted Saturday in their New Boston, Texas, rental home, Scott Hendrix and Shelby Roos are speaking.

According to a report by KTAL-TV, Greenlee Buckley was looking for some baby kittens behind the family's dryer when she was electrocuted.

"There was enough electricity when I grabbed the dryer that it knocked me back," Hendrix said. "And, between adrenaline and panic, I grabbed the dryer out of the wall and got my little girl. She was already gone."

Greenlee's parents claim they've had electrical issues in the rental home before.

"I had been shocked by the washer and shocked by the dryer, but in the back of my mind it was like a static electricity shock," Roos said.

They said there were even problems in the bathroom.

"If one of us took a shower in there and you hit your head on the shower knob you would get shocked," Roos said.

The parents said they complained to their landlord, but claim only unlicensed people were sent to fix the problems. Now, they are warning others about addressing any electrical issues.

#46 | Posted by Pegasus at 2019-07-12 06:11 PM | Reply

Dumb landlord, if the tenant could prove only unlicensed people came they will have a huge lawsuit.

I had a fireplace a couple years ago where a previous tenant had spilled something on the screen. I cleaned the best I could but it was baked on. The tenant told me flat out that she was going to remove the screen when I left. I called the landlord and they ordered a new screen on the spot. Just because of a small chance of a suit.

#47 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2019-07-12 06:45 PM | Reply

Chavez was against hirers busing in illegals FOR THE PURPOSE OF BUSTING THE UNION.

He was against illegal immigration, PERIOD ... he understood the game being played... unlike Danforth.

HELD BY MEMBERS OF THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
IN THE HEARING ROOM OF THE
EDUCATION AND LABOR COMMITTEE
WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER '1, 1969
WASHINGTON, D.C.

From 1969 ....
But he assumed that approximately 80,000 were in the state of
California. He also stated that the 72 hour pass was the main
instrument by which they got into the country. They would corne in
under the 72 hour pass and then take off for the fields. He felt that
it was very important that the procedures for granting the 72 hour pass
to a Mexican citizen be amended so that we could prevent this kind of
thing from happening. A person comes up on a 72 hour pass, is picked
up by the Border Patrol, goes back across the border and gets another
pass and is back in the United states again. They are picking up
people three or four times in the year.
Do you consider this to be a significant problem?

MR. CHAVEZ: I think it is a significant problem in that it
facilitates the entry of the illegals who can apply at the American
consulate, get a 72 hour pass, and then the moment they get into the
country disregard the pass, the restrictions on the pass which limit
their travel, and also the time period.
I think that some legislation or some kind of enforcement to
prevent this would be very useful. However, there are still the
other problems
libraries.ucsd.edu

Hasn't changes since 1969 ....

#48 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-07-12 07:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#41 the contractor gets a license then hires an illegal to do the grunt work.

If it's to code, it's to code. It passes inspection during a sale. The inspector will never know who did the work.

Always follow Adam Corollas rule for hiring contractors, if you cant do it yourself.

#49 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-07-13 08:38 AM | Reply

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