Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, July 11, 2019

[U.S. Women's National Soccer Team] now turn their focus back to a more serious matter. A gender discrimination lawsuit, filed before the tournament, demands pay equal to that of their male counterparts.

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Here's a bit of an opposing viewpoint:

The Women's World Cup brought in almost $73 million, of which the players got 13%. The 2010 men's World Cup in South Africa made almost $4 billion, of which 9% went to the players. The men still pull the World Cup money wagon. The men's World Cup in Russia generated over $6 billion in revenue, with the participating teams sharing $400 million, less than 7% of revenue. Meanwhile, the Women's World Cup is expected to earn $131 million for the full four-year cycle 2019-22 and dole out $30 million to the participating teams.

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Pro Soccer, like other pro sports, is not a sport, it is a business.

The men may be paid more because they generate more revenue.

So the question seems to become, should all the revenue generated by the pro soccer league be put into one bucket and distributed such that the pay of the men and women are equal?

In corporate sales, the sales people are paid according to how much revenue they bring into the company. Should soccer players, who are employees of the soccer league, be paid in a similar manner?

I wish I knew the answers to the above questions. What I do know is that when you look at pro sprots as the mega-businesses they are, the solutions become more difficult.

#1 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-07-11 01:01 PM | Reply

--should all the revenue generated by the pro soccer league be put into one bucket and distributed such that the pay of the men and women are equal?

Yeah. Create a People's Soccer Commune. Can do that with the NBA and WNBA as well.

#2 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-07-11 01:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So the question seems to become, should all the revenue generated by the pro soccer league be put into one bucket and distributed such that the pay of the men and women are equal?

Here's how I answer that question. Should the NBA do the same thing? Should the players salaries all go into 1 bucket and then evenly disbursed so that Lebron James and Nik Stauskas are paid the same? The answer is the same in both scenarios. It's a resounding "No!"

#3 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-07-11 01:11 PM | Reply



@#3 ... Should the players salaries all go into 1 bucket and then evenly disbursed so that Lebron James and Nik Stauskas are paid the same? The answer is the same in both scenarios. It's a resounding "No!" ...

Then how do you propose resolving the large discrepancy between the woman's soccer salaries and the men's?

Especially in light of this in the summary, "...The Wall Street Journal reports that from 2016 to 2018, U.S. women's games generated about $50.8 million in revenue, compared with $49.9 million for men's games...."?

Shouldn't that mean that the women be paid slightly more than the men, on average?


#4 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-07-11 01:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Lamp,

FTA:

The Women's World Cup brought in almost $73 million, of which the players got 13%. The 2010 men's World Cup in South Africa made almost $4 billion, of which 9% went to the players.

Women actually were paid a higher percentage of the total purse it's just that the purse was WAY smaller.

#5 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-07-11 01:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

Equal Pay 4 Equal Play; US Women's Soccer Tackles Next Quest

You mean all the women on the team don't get the same pay? Hell, every pro football player gets the same pay, don't they?

#6 | Posted by Sniper at 2019-07-11 01:51 PM | Reply


@#5 ... Women actually were paid a higher percentage of the total purse it's just that the purse was WAY smaller. ...

Interesting numbers, though I'm thinking more detail is needed, as the summaries seem to provide conflicting views.

Maybe the women players, if they want the big bucks, should be allowed to play in the men's league? If they are qualified, why not?



#7 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-07-11 01:54 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

Maybe the women players, if they want the big bucks, should be allowed to play in the men's league? If they are qualified, why not?

#7 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER

Well, I'm guessing they aren't qualified.

Check this out:

FC Dallas under-15 boys squad beat the U.S. Women's National Team in a scrimmage

www.cbssports.com

Granted, it was a scrimmage, but still...

The U.S. women's national team would be foolish to dismiss the Matildas after a 7-0 friendly loss to the Newcastle Jets U-15 side.

Again, it was a scrimmage. Having said that, for 15 year old boys to even be competitive with the best female soccer players pretty much tells the story of how any woman would fare trying to play on a men's professional soccer team.

#8 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-07-11 02:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Then how do you propose resolving the large discrepancy between the woman's soccer salaries and the men's?

You do what Rapinoe said to do when she was interviewed by Man-hands Maddow: "Fans can come to games, obviously national team games will be hot ticket, but we have nine teams in the NWSL, you can go to your league games, you can support that way, you can buy players' jerseys, you can lend your support that way, you can tell your friends about it, you can become season ticket holders."

In other words, fans give the team generate more money and the female players will be paid more. No revenue, no pay hike.

#9 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2019-07-11 02:19 PM | Reply

#9 | POSTED BY MUSTANG GT

I didn't even think about merchandising.

I would love to compare sales of Rapinoe jerseys to Messi jerseys.

#10 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-07-11 02:39 PM | Reply


@#9 ... In other words, fans give the team generate more money and the female players will be paid more. No revenue, no pay hike. ...

That's an interesting proposition.

Separate the better performers into a different company and pay them more.

As I originally said, pro sports is little more than a business.

So why not?

#11 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-07-11 03:28 PM | Reply

It is hard to get at the original data saying that women earned more revenue, because the original page is paywalled. But one way I have seen this issued framed to reinforce the "Women generate more revenue" argument is to include years that have a women's world cup and not a men's. This gives the data you want if you have that agenda. Only trust a source that compares four years which should have the world cup for both sexes.

Men's soccer in 2018 world cup made over 6 billion, so clearly the original source made sure to include only part of that year, likely including up to June. World cup started in mid-june.

Lying with data is easy if no one questions it.

#12 | Posted by Merovigan at 2019-07-11 04:49 PM | Reply

One of the places where there is a disparity is food/travel/lodging per diem. The last time the women negotiated their deal, they weren't the bigger draw, and they worked out a lower per diem. Now they are more popular nationally, and it's time for better digs.

#13 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-07-11 04:55 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

What are they whining about, don't their husbands support them?

#14 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2019-07-11 05:54 PM | Reply

There is no comparison between the men's World Cup and the women's World Cup on any level. The difference in crowd sizes, global viewership, sponsorship levels, player recognition and the absolute quality of play means that the women are playing a game with the same name but not the same credentials.

To base any claim for equal pay on WC performance is therefore a nonsense. FIFA in fact favor the women's competition by distributing a higher percentage of revenue to them than to the men.

The US women's team has dominated and may well continue to dominate, women's international football because the quality of opposition is not there. The US men's team on the other hand faces the best of the best globally and has a very long road ahead before they taste international success outside of CONCACAF and regional play. It is also my view therefore that any claim for equality of earnings based on the relative success of the women viz a viz the men's team needs to take into account the quality and quantity of opposition at international level. If the women actually think they are better than the men - and that's the vibe I'm getting from some of them - play them and see how that goes.

I am afraid the complexity of remuneration deals in US domestic men's and women's football has me beat, so I will simply add that if, after all factors have been taken into consideration, such as TV revenue, sponsorship revenue, paying fans through the turnstiles and merchandise sales revenue, the women generate the same amount as the men, then they should be paid the same. I have no problem with equality, as long as all things are equal.

#15 | Posted by Foreigner at 2019-07-11 06:15 PM | Reply

Shouldn't we be paying the WNBA players as much as the NBA players? Seems fair...lol

#16 | Posted by homerj at 2019-07-11 06:55 PM | Reply

The men may be paid more because they generate more revenue.

Except that the women's team brought in $1.9 million more than the men. By this logic, they should be paid more than the men.

#17 | Posted by chuffy at 2019-07-11 07:03 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

#17 No, they didn't. Cherry-picked data is cherry-picked data.

#18 | Posted by Merovigan at 2019-07-11 07:19 PM | Reply

"What are they whining about, don't their husbands support them?
#14 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE"

Is that what yours does?

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-11 07:20 PM | Reply


So... where did we wind up on this?

Do we treat sports teams as businesses and give them wide latitude in what those businesses do and how they manage their employees?

#20 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-07-12 12:37 AM | Reply

Do we treat sports teams as businesses and give them wide latitude in what those businesses do and how they manage their employees?

FIFA is a business ...

Whats your proposal?

Here's my take "When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression"...

Do you want REAL equality? OR the privilege that women can a have their own tourney.

#21 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-07-12 12:53 AM | Reply

"The Wall Street Journal reports that from 2016 to 2018, U.S. women's games generated about $50.8 million in revenue, compared with $49.9 million for men's games."

This is all that needs to be said. All the crap they say that makes it complicated is just fluff. If the women are bringing in as much as the men and it can be proven, they deserve equal pay. If either is bringing in a significant share less, they they should be paid less. The only question is, what happens when the men's team wins it all and the revenue it generates is double that of the women? Will the women then say the men deserve more because that would be using the same logic.

#22 | Posted by humtake at 2019-07-12 12:19 PM | Reply

"Will the women then say the men deserve more because that would be using the same logic.

#22 | POSTED BY HUMTAKE AT 2019-07-12 12:19 PM | REPLY | FLAG:"

The women have already answered this question and the detail is in this thread.

The amount of prize money distributed by FIFA to teams participating in a World Cup is based on anticipated total revenue expected to be generated by the competition. In 2018, men's teams received roughly 7% of revenue. In 2019 women's teams received roughly 23% of revenue. I haven't read of any female player complaining that the men have been unfairly treated by FIFA. Quite the opposite, as there have been complaints that the absolute amount of money earned by the men's teams is much more than earned by the women's - true but irrelevant given the huge discrepancy in revenues generated.

#23 | Posted by Foreigner at 2019-07-12 12:51 PM | Reply

It's soccer for crying out loud. They're lucky they get paid anything.

#24 | Posted by willowby at 2019-07-12 01:58 PM | Reply

It's soccer for crying out loud. They're lucky they get paid anything.

I feel that way about all athletes.

#25 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-07-12 02:17 PM | Reply

They're lucky they get paid anything.

I feel that way about all athletes.
#25 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

...and politicians, CEO's, actors, lawyers, lobbyists, bankers.

#26 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-07-12 02:30 PM | Reply

They're lucky they get paid anything.

#24 | Posted by willowby

yeah! i don't get it!

I can't imagine what them wimmmin is all crying about.

They get half the money we make and they have ALL the baginas and (most) all the good ----- AND to top it off they get multiple -------!

And all they got to do is put up with misogynists like willowby and Trumpby.

I don't see a problem that a rolled up time magazine cant fix.

#27 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-07-12 02:42 PM | Reply

It is hard to get at the original data saying that women earned more revenue, because the original page is paywalled. But one way I have seen this issued framed to reinforce the "Women generate more revenue" argument is to include years that have a women's world cup and not a men's. This gives the data you want if you have that agenda. Only trust a source that compares four years which should have the world cup for both sexes.

Men's soccer in 2018 world cup made over 6 billion, so clearly the original source made sure to include only part of that year, likely including up to June. World cup started in mid-june.

Lying with data is easy if no one questions it.

#12 | Posted by Merovigan at 2019-07-11 04:49 PM | Reply

I think you need to read more carefully. No one was lying when they quoted that the US Women's team brought in more than the US Men's. The number you are quoting was for the entire field of the Men's World Cup. How much of that did the US Men bring in?

It seems you are accusing the source of lying when you simply didn't properly understand what was said. Questioning is good, but you need to actually understand the answer.

The USWNT is suing US soccer, not FIFA. The discussion of the prize pool and bonuses paid by FIFA at the World Cup is a different discussion with different facts.

#28 | Posted by StatsPlease at 2019-07-12 04:07 PM | Reply

#27

Nice try donner. That goes for ALL soccer players, regardless of gender. You're not too bright.

#29 | Posted by willowby at 2019-07-12 04:20 PM | Reply

Donner is the dimmest of bulbs.

#30 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2019-07-12 04:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

- Donner is the dimmest of bulbs.

Q: How many potheads does it take to change a lightbulb.
A: Screw it, we got lighters.

#31 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-07-12 04:36 PM | Reply

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