Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, July 09, 2019

A black software designer meeting a friend at her San Francisco apartment building filmed the white resident calling the cops on him, saying the man is a trespasser as his young son begs him to leave so he won't be the "next person on TV." Wesly Michel told Christopher Cukor he should just leave instead of calling police, telling him he'd go viral like other white people who've calling police on black people who've done nothing wrong. After Michel's friend arrives, the distraught young boy tells his dad, "Look what you got us into!"

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The kids are learning NOT to hate, MAGAts! You're through.

#1 | Posted by KillerKarlKrupt at 2019-07-09 12:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Christopher Cukor - A YouTube employee, and dollar to donuts a Democrat/Liberal/Socialist.

From 2012 ...

Family of man bludgeoned to death criticize Berkeley police response, later suing Berkeley PD.
www.mercurynews.com

#2 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-07-09 12:12 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Leaving aside the racial bias issue for a moment, the young boy wanted desperately to get away from a confrontation that was making him scared. The dad should have listened to the boy's distress and left the situation. He could've called police somewhere else, or let the matter drop without calling them at all.

If he thought the man was dangerous, why did he stand right next to him with his young child? It seems like he knew on some level the man was harmless, but he called the cops anyway.

#3 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-09 12:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 13

They were both acting like dicks. Hope the kid learns not to be like either of them.

#4 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-09 12:36 PM | Reply

RCADE I totally agree with you. Putting the racism aside, that situation could have turned deadly. All the man had to do was pull out a gun instead of a cell phone, and a child's life would have ended because of a father's stupidity. Parents have the duty to protect their children at all costs, including stepping down from a situation for the child's sake. If I were the child's mother, I'd look for a divorce lawyer. Wait until an agent from the Child Protective Services sees that video. The father will probably lose his job, too. The court of public opinion is truly vicious.

Putting the racist bias back, the father did it because the guy was black. Would have done it if the guy was white? What does the court say? What are the facts? Who cares? It's the court of public opinion.

Poor kid. He knew. That's why he was crying.

#5 | Posted by KillerKarlKrupt at 2019-07-09 12:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Parents have the duty to protect their children at all costs, including stepping down from a situation for the child's sake.

When my kids were young, if a situation started to get sketchy my first thought was "get them out of here." A lot of people let emotions blind their common sense.

It isn't always satisfying to back down from a confrontation, especially if you're a man and the caveman adrenaline starts coursing through your body, but it's almost always the smart move.

#6 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-09 12:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

"Look what you got us into!"

WorldStar?

#7 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-09 12:54 PM | Reply

They were both acting like dicks.

I don't think Michel was acting badly until he cussed in front of the child and put his camera inches from Cukor's face. He was in a place he was allowed to be and didn't have to provide his name or any other information to Cukor. Filming the incident for his own protection was smart.

#8 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-09 12:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Maybe "being the next person on tv" was more important to him than his kid's safety. Sure looks that way.

#9 | Posted by Corky at 2019-07-09 12:57 PM | Reply

If Cukor wanted to be on TV for calling the cops on a black man, he's dumber than that smirk on his face. He will be lucky not to be fired now that this is a big news story.

#10 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-09 01:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

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"Maybe "being the next person on tv" was more important to him than his kid's safety."

Nah, he most likely thought he was being macho and showing his kid that real men don't take ---- from other macho dicks.

"He was in a place he was allowed to be"

Was he, though? It depends on the rules of the apartment property. Some places don't even allow non-tennants to hang out unaccompanied on the grounds outside the building.

#11 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-09 01:35 PM | Reply

"Some places don't even allow non-tennants to hang out unaccompanied on the grounds outside the building."

But as they'll let the UPS guy wait for you to come down and sign, that "policy" is just a smokescreen for racism.

#12 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-09 01:38 PM | Reply

"If he thought the man was dangerous, why did he stand right next to him with his young child? It seems like he knew on some level the man was harmless, but he called the cops anyway."

I feel bad for the kid. It sucks growing up with garbage parent who have more concern for their racism than for their children's safety.

#13 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-07-09 01:43 PM | Reply

"But as they'll let the UPS guy wait for you to come down and sign, that "policy" is just a smokescreen for racism."

Depends on where you're at. Some developments have a serious problem with drugs and this is meant to combat that.

#14 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-07-09 01:44 PM | Reply

Was he, though?

I bet everyone here has gone through an open door that locks when it's closed to get to a friend's place, saving them the trouble of letting you in.

If you have a legitimate reason to be somewhere, like waiting for a friend to arrive who knows you're going to be there, you are in a place you are allowed to be.

#15 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-09 01:51 PM | Reply

I bet most people have also encountered busybodies who are sticklers for rules even when they're not offically appointed to enforce those rules. It sounds like some are saying busybodies should treat people differently based on their skin colour.

#16 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-09 01:57 PM | Reply

The thing that really grabs me by the short hairs is that the father's racism was/is more important to him than his son's physical and mental welfare. The smug smile despite the fact that his son is crying -- he probably scolded the child for being a ___ (fill in the blank).

Children are children are children. Even some species of fish protect their young. You know that boy is going to be traumatized. He's going to get bullied, too. He's embarrassed that his father is going to be known as "one of those."

Damned shame.

#17 | Posted by KillerKarlKrupt at 2019-07-09 02:26 PM | Reply

I bet most people have also encountered busybodies who are sticklers for rules even when they're not offically appointed to enforce those rules.

Michel wasn't breaking any rules. His friend invited him to be there.

Being a busybody does not entitle you to demand someone's name and ID.

It sounds like some are saying busybodies should treat people differently based on their skin colour.

It sounds like you want to pretend this wasn't about race.

Have the cops ever been called on you when you visited a friend? Nobody has ever questioned my right to be somewhere. Guess why.

#18 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-09 02:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You know that boy is going to be traumatized.

I hope not, but it would be troubling at that age to have a parent who escalated a conflict when you were begging him to walk away.

When I was that age my dad would get into yell-to-the-rooftops arguments with my mom. (They had me young -- 19 and 21 -- and would later divorce.)

This was tough to experience. I felt I had no voice in a situation that made me greatly upset.

So when I had kids of my own and had a big argument with my wife (which was thankfully rare), the kids would sometimes tell us to stop arguing.

When they said that, my wife or I often responded, "You know, you're right. We need to stop." And it usually did stop and more constructive conversations happened.

This kid needed his dad to listen. I hope he starts listening. A kid who has a voice his parent hears is a happier one.

#19 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-09 02:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"It sounds like you want to pretend this wasn't about race."

I don't anything about the guy talking on the phone, other than he looks like Liam Neeson. Maybe he's a dick to everyone. Maybe he had stuff stolen from him before and was worried about his property. Maybe he's racist. I can't infer any one of those things over the others. It became about race when the guy with the camera made it about race and decided he wanted his name to appear in the news along with the guy he was having an immature pissing match with.

#20 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-09 03:39 PM | Reply

^know

#21 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-09 03:40 PM | Reply

The problem with this video is we don't get to see what happened to precipitate the disagreement.

#22 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-07-09 03:49 PM | Reply

"I bet most people have also encountered busybodies who are sticklers for rules even when they're not offically appointed to enforce those rules."

^
The stories people come up with to excuse racism would be hilarious, if this place was a comedy skit.

#23 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-09 04:09 PM | Reply

It became about race when the guy with the camera made it about race ...

You're sounding as bad as the people who blame rape victims for dressing provocatively.

It was about race because white people let other white people enter their buildings without demanding their name and ID.

It was about race because black people are treated suspiciously by whites when they're doing ordinary things in ordinary places.

There's nothing wrong with Michel filming this and sharing it. He was being harassed by a white busybody for no justifiable reason, like so many other black people before him in this country.

I don't anything about the guy talking on the phone, other than he looks like Liam Neeson. Maybe he's a dick to everyone. Maybe he had stuff stolen from him before and was worried about his property. Maybe he's racist. I can't infer any one of those things over the others.

We can treat him like somebody who called the cops on a black man while at the same time feeling so unthreatened he stood right next to him with his young son.

#24 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-09 04:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The problem with this video is we don't get to see what happened to precipitate the disagreement.

They both explain what happened. Michel was there waiting for a friend to arrive. Cukor wanted his name and friend's name because Michel walked through the door.

If I have a right to be somewhere, I'm not providing those things to a stranger. Would you?

If I was black and this kind of meritless suspicion had happened to me multiple times in my life, I'm even less likely to provide that information. Being black doesn't mean you have to humor rando white people who think they can question you like a cop.

#25 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-09 04:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"You're sounding as bad as the people who blame rape victims for dressing provocatively."

Wow. You seriously just compared this situation to a rape?

Nothing I said implies anyone involved was justifiably provoked into doing anything. You're reading things in to what I wrote.

#26 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-09 04:37 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

You seriously just compared this situation to a rape?

I made a comparison to another example of victim blaming because of the rhetoric you employed. That's not the same thing as comparing this situation to a rape.

#27 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-09 04:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Nothing I said implies anyone involved was justifiably provoked into doing anything."

Busybodies aren't justified in being busybodies?

#28 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-09 05:08 PM | Reply

So when I had kids of my own and had a big argument with my wife (which was thankfully rare), the kids would sometimes tell us to stop arguing.

#19 | Posted by rcade

When our middle son was a young teen (he's now 48) and my wife and I got into an argument (which admittedly was not all that rare back in those days) he often felt that I gave in more often than I should, and I would try to explain to him that 'winning' wasn't always worth the 'cost', something that took him awhile to appreciate (note that his wife, who's Hispanic, doesn't take crap from anyone and yet they seem to get along very well, so it would appear that he has learned the same lesson that I did ;-). And for the record, my wife and I celebrated our 52nd wedding anniversary this last month (we're to the point where there's little to be gained by either of us in winning an argument).

OCU

#29 | Posted by OCUser at 2019-07-09 05:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"I made a comparison to another example of victim blaming because of the rhetoric you employed."

Nonsense. There is zero objective evidence that anything about this incident was racial until Wesly Michel injected race into it. Your comparison was absurd.

#30 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-09 08:31 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

Rcade,

"he's dumber than that smirk on his face"

I agree. I really can't understand his motivation.

He totally lacked any judgement to not think this is going to turn out badly for him.

And the smirk??

What was going on in his head?

#31 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2019-07-09 08:31 PM | Reply

So, didn't Michel follow Cukor into the building once Cukor buzzed himself in? He wasn't just waiting outside. I would question anyone that came in after me. Let guests wait outside if the owner isn't in the building.

#32 | Posted by zarnon at 2019-07-09 09:22 PM | Reply

There is zero objective evidence that anything about this incident was racial until Wesly Michel injected race into it.

You're like a little newborn fawn, tottering out on wobbly legs for the first time into a world you've yet to learn a thing about.

So precious! I fear what will happen to something so innocent.

#33 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-09 09:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#33 | Posted by rcade You might want to remember that San Francisco neighborhoods are under sedge by an army of the homeless, drug addled, mentally ill or just plain criminal. What this guy was reactionary, given the atmosphere in the area, understandable. The more affluent the hood, the faster you will be hassled and roused somewhere else. Question: Do they have a homeless problem in Bel Air? Hell no. I see a Republican future in SF. Hell they cleaned out the hippies in '72, using force, lest you forget.

#34 | Posted by docnjo at 2019-07-09 09:53 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

"You're like a little newborn fawn, tottering out on wobbly legs for the first time into a world you've yet to learn a thing about.
So precious! I fear what will happen to something so innocent."

I know you're being snarky, but that was actually very poetic. Have you ever considered becoming an author?

#35 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-09 10:03 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

The more affluent the hood, the faster you will be hassled and roused somewhere else.

And if you're black the speed doubles.

What this guy was reactionary, given the atmosphere in the area, understandable.

I don't understand it because he obviously did not consider Michel dangerous. He stood right next to him with his young son.

I think he called the cops because he didn't like his authority being questioned. Even though he had no authority.

#36 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-09 10:18 PM | Reply

I know you're being snarky, but that was actually very poetic. Have you ever considered becoming an author?

LOL. I have a recurring daydream about getting so worked up writing a comment that I just keep on going for 80,000 words and publish it novel length and I get rich and can take on a mistress, though I don't get any sex but just have to pay her rent, help with car payments and watch her kid sometimes while my wife thinks I'm at the comic book store.

#37 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-09 10:20 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

#29 | Posted by OCUser

My wife and I agreed before we got married that 'nothing's worth arguing over if it won't be a big deal in 5 years.'

We've been married a long time. We've had maybe 3 arguments in all those years.

#38 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-07-09 10:28 PM | Reply

"And the smirk??
What was going on in his head?"

Maybe the absurdity of the situation. He wouldn't back down, and neither would the other guy. But he knew he was going to get more hate mail even though he called the other guy "sir" at one point, and would be labeled the racist even though he made no mention of race, unlike the other guy.

Or maybe he was thinking of his father dying in his own driveway. He obviously didn't perceive this guy to be an immediate threat, but if he let this one go then what if it's the next guy, or the people they let in afterward?

#39 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-09 10:29 PM | Reply

#36 | Posted by rcade, You are saying that the most liberal, progressive city in America is as racist as Boston? Have no doubt, it is. The rich in SF are as racist as a Klucker in Klansville, in so far as what they do, what they say means little, their actions speaks much louder.

#40 | Posted by docnjo at 2019-07-09 10:33 PM | Reply

When we were first married, my wife would get mad over something she thought I was thinking, but was the furthest thing from my mind. The last time it happened, sometime in the 90's, she walked out the door and, um, didn't shut it quietly.

While she was gone, I put on a Japanese silk robe she'd given me for Christmas, tied the sash around my forehead, and made an ad hoc seppuku/hari kari altar, put on some Japanese music and lit incense.

When she walked back in the house, I did a John Belushi 'Samurai' imitation, holding the butcher knife with both hands, blade pointing towards me, and made Belushi's grunting sounds. She broke down in laughter and that was the last time she ever got mad over what she thought I was thinking.

Humor goes a long way in a relationship.

#41 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-07-09 10:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

My wife and I have been together since 1987. When we fight, it's always a rerun of a past fight. It's hard to get mad when we know everything the other is going to say.

Sometimes I just float above the argument and do play-by-play commentary in my head like, "Wow. That thing she just said would've really made me mad once. And that thing I said is a big strategy error I will apologize for tomorrow."

#42 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-09 10:41 PM | Reply

I still think the guy in the video looks like Liam Neeson. I kept expecting him to tell the 911 dispatcher "I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom I can tell you I don't have money, but what I do have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my daughter go now that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you, but if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you and I will kill you."

#43 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-09 10:50 PM | Reply

The marriage anecdotes are fantastic on this thread.

Here's mine: one time we were entertaining another couple - close friends - I was grilling really big burgers and my buddy's wife proclaimed, "That's huge!"

My response, "My wife says that to me all of the time.....unfortunately she's talking about my gut." ☹️

#44 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-07-09 10:57 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

When our daughter was 8 we took her down to Disney World. On Day One, we did the character breakfast, let her pick out a princess dress and shoes, went on all the old school rides in the old park, got her photo with Belle and the mermaid girl, ice cream cones, dots, Italian ice.

3 PM - meltdown. On the ground, crying, rolling around. My wife and I are just standing there and happen to look up, lock eyes with another set of parents, then another, and we all realized that there were five separate meltdowns happening simultaneously within 30 feet of each other. hahaha.

We all just sort of chuckled. Fun memories.

#45 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-07-09 11:13 PM | Reply

Statement released by Christopher Cukor:

edition.cnn.com

- I noticed Wesly Michel caught the door and entered the building without using the callbox. I did what came naturally and asked where he was going. I want to be clear on this point, this is something I do regularly, regardless of who the other person is.
- I offered to hold the door open while he used the callbox to contact his friend.
- As I learned later, Wesly was a friend of a guest of a resident in the building. The building resident was not expecting Wesly.
- When the encounter turned confrontational and I couldn't resolve it myself, I called the police.

...

"My father was murdered outside his home by a trespasser who he confronted alone. For my child's safety, my safety and that of the building, I felt it was necessary to get help in this situation. Furthermore, I've encountered trespassers in my building and we've been robbed several times. This is not uncommon in San Francisco and the bad actors are all different colors."

...

"I believe people are good at heart. It's our past experiences and fears that cloud even our best intentions. I hope Wesly will read this and understand my history as I have tried to understand his."

#46 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-10 12:30 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#45 | Posted by SheepleSchism

Did you go through the "16 year old says, 'you don't know ANYTHING!!!' " phase, when they didn't get their way? :)

I remember telling my mom, "the older I got the smarter you got."

#47 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-07-10 01:19 AM | Reply

What happened to Cukor's father is terrible, but it doesn't explain why he called the cops on someone he felt safe enough around to stand next to with his young son while he called the cops.

You're not doing something for your child's safety when you're right next to that person and your distraught child is begging you to de-escalate the situation instead of calling the cops.

His child certainly wasn't acting like he felt safer.

#48 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-10 10:22 AM | Reply

Well, I'd like to hear from the people who blasted the dad in this story. Have any of you ever lived in or visited a secure apartment building? Do you regularly let tailgaters enter the building? If it was in a place which had a history of crime, wouldn't you be more vigilant about it?

#49 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-10 10:25 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

it doesn't follow that Cukor necessarily had to feel Michel was an immediate threat for him to be concerned enough to see him as a potential threat to other tenants or the property, due to Michel's behavior. He had no idea if this guy would let in other random people off the street as well.

#50 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-10 10:36 AM | Reply

Do you regularly let tailgaters enter the building?

I would not challenge a random person's right to be somewhere because they entered a secure door as I was leaving it. That situation happens far too often to treat it like a big deal and it's something I've done myself. If I have a right to be someplace I'm treating the fact the door wasn't closed yet as an opportunity to avoid a hassle.

I'm not acting like a cop and demanding someone's name or their resident's name. I don't have a right to expect those answers.

I wouldn't call the cops on a thirtysomething black guy who is so upset I questioned him that he's standing there talking to me and filming me on his phone with a nice camera. That's not really "I AM A DANGEROUS CRIMINAL" behavior. It's more "I AM SICK OF BEING HASSLED BY WHITE PEOPLE" behavior. Michel laid out the situation perfectly for Cukor when he said "you're going to go viral for this. Stop and I'll delete this video."

#51 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-10 11:33 AM | Reply

He had no idea if this guy would let in other random people off the street as well.

So Michel isn't a threat but he's a Trojan black man who might let threatening people in?

You're doing somersaults to justify a man who apologized to Michel and acknowledged he had a right to be upset.

#52 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-10 11:36 AM | Reply

"Michel laid out the situation perfectly for Cukor when he said "you're going to go viral for this. Stop and I'll delete this video."

So any homeless druggie or jilted ex gets a free pass into a secure building as long as they follow this script and happen to be black.

#53 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-10 11:44 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"You're doing somersaults to justify a man who apologized to Michel and acknowledged he had a right to be upset."

Of course Michel had a right to be upset. Just as Cukor had a right to be concerned about the security of his home and his neighbors. They both could have handled it differently. There was nothing racial about this specific incident, and the way that Michel and others are going about portraying it as one is not helping to gain awareness or sympathy towards the incidents which actually are racially motivated.

I would suggest that you're actually displaying you're own racial biases here, which are no different than those who would use Manchild Michel's behavior to smear black men in general.

#54 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-10 12:11 PM | Reply

rcade, just because you don't care about the safety of your neighbors, doesn't mean that is unreasonable for others to care.

You keep claiming that he had no right... as a resident of a secure building, he had every right to question someone trying to tailgate into the building. Again just because you don't care, doesn't make you right. It might be super rigid how he tried to enforce the building rules, but as a resident, he doesn't have to allow someone to be in the building without the person they are there to see being there.

Staying strict to the rules, and now how you would do it doesn't make it wrong or racist.

#55 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2019-07-10 12:26 PM | Reply

... as a resident of a secure building, he had every right to question someone trying to tailgate into the building ...

Cukor doesn't have the right to demand answers of random people just because he lives in a building. He's not a cop. He's not a security guard. He doesn't own the building.

He can ask questions -- it's a free country -- but Michel is also free not to answer him. Michel knew he had permission to be there. This was proved within minutes of his arrival.

In this country if you're doing nothing wrong, random people who demand you explain your presence in their neighborhood or building should be invited to self-fornicate themselves.

As for me not caring about the safety of my neighbors, that's asinine. I care as much about mine as anybody else. I just don't pretend I'm a cop or have one set of rules for white people I encounter and another set for blacks. And I'm wise enough not to have warm and creamy vigilante fantasies about confronting strangers and questioning them.

I would suggest that you're actually displaying you're own racial biases here ...

Treating a random black person the way I'd treat a random white person in the same situation is the opposite of racial bias.

Next time you walk through a door that was going to lock when it closed, think about why you don't expect your action will result in somebody calling the cops.

#56 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-10 01:02 PM | Reply

I haven't read this particular article, but in general, tailgating on a secured door is how mass shooters can gain entrance. I know that everywhere I've been employed in the last 15 years, it's a security breach to hold the door for others, and doing so can result in termination. Also, we're instructed that it's our responsibility to challenge persons without a badge, especially Visitor badges without an escort.

Granted, it's an employment issue, but many employers are going to it.

#57 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-07-10 01:16 PM | Reply

"Treating a random black person the way I'd treat a random white person in the same situation is the opposite of racial bias."

But yet you seem to be condemning Cukor for not treating a random black person differently from how he says he'd treat a random white person in the same situation. Two guys were acting macho dicks and displaying their toxic masculinity in front of a kid, and you're giving one of them a pass and not the other because of their respective skin colors.

"Next time you walk through a door that was going to lock when it closed, think about why you don't expect your action will result in somebody calling the cops."

You're assuming I don't think or expect that could realistically happen, if there was a misunderstanding and I reacted a certain way to it. I wonder why that is...

In fact, unless the other person and I knew each other, I would usually let the door close at any place I'm relatively new at and then use my own key or have someone else let me in if I'm visiting, as a simple courtesy to make others feel comfortable. As for people tailgating me, I would sometimes ask which apartment they were in and they'd usually tell me. As I said, I'd be more vigilant if I lived in a higher crime area, like San Francisco or any big city.

One time I denied a white guy entry because he was obviously drunk and wasn't even sure which building his friend he was visiting was in. Even though he didn't get confrontational or butthurt about it, I still emailed the property manager about the incident. If he acted like a jerk about it and refused to leave, I probably would have called 911 on him.

#58 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-10 02:00 PM | Reply

"You're like a little newborn fawn, tottering out on wobbly legs for the first time into a world you've yet to learn a thing about."

That's the M.O. of the Swastika Rehabilitator.
They're modern-day Know-Nothings.
I'm not sure why you tolerate it.

#59 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-10 02:12 PM | Reply

But yet you seem to be condemning Cukor for not treating a random black person differently from how he says he'd treat a random white person in the same situation.

I don't believe him. I think a white 35-year-old software engineer in a Yankees cap walks through that closing door and gets no attention from him.

#60 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-10 02:19 PM | Reply

"I don't believe him."

I think I know why.

#61 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-10 02:22 PM | Reply

"But yet you seem to be condemning Cukor for not treating a random black person differently from how he says he'd treat a random white person in the same situation."

^
Unless it's separate from his statement as seen on CNN, Cukor never said this:
edition.cnn.com

He doesn't say he'd call the cops on a random white person.

He says "I did what came naturally and asked where he was going. I want to be clear on this point, this is something I do regularly, regardless of who the other person is."

#62 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-10 02:32 PM | Reply

I think I know why.

I think you're another person who won't believe a white person is racist unless they have "I AM A RACIST" tattooed on their forehead.

Even then you might refuse to believe it unless they had it notarized.

#63 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-10 02:36 PM | Reply

He is ambiguous on the meaning of a Swastika flown alongside an equally ambiguous Confederate flag.

So, par for the course.

#64 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-10 02:37 PM | Reply

"I think you're another person who won't believe a white person is racist unless they have "I AM A RACIST" tattooed on their forehead."

If you really think that, then the subtext of this discussion has obviously gone over your head.

#65 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-10 02:51 PM | Reply

^
Sentinel then points to precisely where the subtext went over RCade's head by extending his arm upwards at a 45 degree angle.

#66 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-10 03:02 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

Here's the thing. If Cukor hadn't tailgated the only way he would have been able to gain access to the building was by using the call box.

#67 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-07-10 03:53 PM | Reply

It's tiresome to talk to people about race who won't ever admit there's a problem.

Because we live in the constant-camera age we see examples of the problem all the time. Cops are called by whites on people who committed the heinous crime of existing while black.

#68 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-10 04:11 PM | Reply

"It's tiresome to talk to people about race who won't ever admit there's a problem."

Congratulations. Your website erected a monument to it.

#69 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-10 04:13 PM | Reply

"Cops are called by whites on people who committed the heinous crime of existing while black."

That happens sometimes. There's no evidence that's what happened here. You're making assumptions about both of these men based on their skin colour, and you're excusing/conflating Michel's ------- behavior as 'existing while black', which is pretty damn racist.

You might want to consider checking your awareness (or lack thereof) about your own unconscious biases before condescendingly talking down to others about the ones you think they have. Being white or black or having a crappy history as both of these men apparently had doesn't make either one of them an automatic enforcer of nor exempt from the rules.

#70 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-10 04:36 PM | Reply

See?
A living monument.

#71 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-10 05:16 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

It's hysterical that with little evidence in either direction that so many people here KNOW this guy is a racist.

It would seem that his claim that there had been robberies could be verified... Would that make you think that he could possibly just be overzealous with enforcing no tailgating?

What would it take for you to consider that the guy could just be a jerk?

#72 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2019-07-10 06:10 PM | Reply

Being white or black or having a crappy history as both of these men apparently had doesn't make either one of them an automatic enforcer of nor exempt from the rules.

When you cite "the rules," you sound completely unaware of the reality that private rules about security and trespassing are enforced differently against black people. Treating "the rules" as the only important thing in a situation like this means playing a rigged game that black people lose.

White people call the cops on innocent blacks ALL THE TIME and you won't admit that.

Being a black man means a presumption of guilt.

Being a white man means a presumption of innocence.

Cukor was concerned about his building? Great. Maybe he could've waited a few minutes and talked to Michel more instead of putting Michel's life in danger by calling the cops. He obviously wasn't scared of Michel. What's a few minutes of hanging out while Michel waits for his friend to arrive?

Michel's position was less rigid than Cukor's. He said stop calling the cops and I'll stop the video. Cukor made his own bed by escalating the situation and now he's got this albatross around his neck.

#73 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-10 06:24 PM | Reply

So black people are incapable of breaking any social convention rules because others have been wrongly accused of it?

Michel obviously knew he was making this resident uncomfortable, and could have waited outside the building for his friend just as easily. Actually more easily as he had to wait anyway, and Cukor could have gone his way.

Instead, he decided that the only reason this was happening was because of his race. So this tenant that he was making uncomfortable, he decided needed to be videoed. Seems Michel escalated it.

There were two people one who lived there, the other who would be a guest but his host wasn't there. The tenant would have preferred he left, and instead the host-less guest escalated the situation.

#74 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2019-07-10 06:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Rcade,

"I think he called the cops because he didn't like his authority being questioned."

Perhaps so.

He could have just as easily went on the elevator or another room and but he made sure the guy watched him.

However, learning he was a locked door tailgater has changed my perspective of the situation.

Personally I would feel like I'm trespassing if I didn't live there.

If I was waiting for someone who lived there I would wait outside.

But suggesting he should have waited outside will earn me the racist label.

#75 | Posted by billjohnson at 2019-07-10 07:01 PM | Reply

So this tenant that he was making uncomfortable, he decided needed to be videoed. Seems Michel escalated it.

Lord help me, Black Jesus. Michel started filming AFTER CUKOR CALLED THE COPS ON HIM. The escalation was calling the cops, not filming the situation to have a record of what occurred after the cops were called.

EVERYONE IN AMERICA TURNS A CAMERA ON THESE DAYS WHEN A BEEF STARTS. But when black people do it, that's ESCALATING. Damn those black people and their aggressive smartphone cameras.

#76 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-10 07:05 PM | Reply

If I was waiting for someone who lived there I would wait outside.

If you were black and you experienced situation after situation where some random white person challenged your right to be somewhere, when you had a right to be there, maybe you wouldn't have been that agreeable.

Maybe you'd reach a point where you said YOU KNOW WHAT? ---- THAT NOISE I DON'T HAVE TO TELL YOU ----. I'M GOING TO STAY IN THIS VESTIBULE FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE. AND I'M GOING TO SUE FOR CUSTODY OF YOUR KID BECAUSE HE'S TOO SMART TO BE DRAGGED DOWN BY A DUMB LIAM NEESON LOOKING RACIST DILLWEED. HE'LL LIVE WITH ME HERE AND I'LL TEACH HIM TO SPEAK WAKANDAN.

#77 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-10 07:09 PM | Reply

Turning on the camera is de-escalation. People ate less likely to act like dicks when they know there is a camera on them.

#78 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-07-10 07:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Rcade,

"when you had a right to be there"

My point is did he have a right to be there?

Or maybe...was his behavior a little aggressive?

Black or white?

#79 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2019-07-10 07:17 PM | Reply

He didn't live in the building... he did not have a right to be there. Why do you think he did?

#80 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2019-07-10 07:21 PM | Reply

My point is did he have a right to be there?

We know he did. His friend showed up. At that point, even Cukor acknowledged to the cops Michel had a right to be there.

If you live somewhere and you invite someone over, that means it's OK for them to be there. They aren't a trespasser.

#81 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-10 07:21 PM | Reply

Or maybe...was his behavior a little aggressive?

You're defining "aggressive" as refusing to answer a random white man's questions and getting upset when he calls the cops and starts talking to them about your skin color and whether you are armed.

#82 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-10 07:25 PM | Reply

Rcade is approaching this with hindsight...

At the time this happened this was known.

Guy lives in a building with a callbox for access.
Another guy tailgates in.
When questioned claims to know someone who lives there, can name them, but they're not home.
Guy who lives there wants the non tenant to leave.

That's really it. Leave any description about race out of it, and I'm pretty sure most people would say that the non-tenant should leave.

#83 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2019-07-10 07:25 PM | Reply

Rcade,

"aggressive" started when he rushed the door...which has nothing to do with being asked questions.

You know...as far as the tailgating question....I have noticed a trend the last few years in my life that demonstrates one of the differences between liberals and conservatives.

This isn't a hard and fast rule...but I have noticed liberals tend to feel awfully entitled and empowered to question authority and rules and would tailgate a locked door....while conservatives would be more inclined to respect the meaning of locked doors and stay out.

Just sayin'.

#84 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2019-07-10 07:32 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Rcade is also approaching this from the perspective of "acknowledging his privilege" and feels that Cukor should have done the same. I disagree in that tailgating into a building that he doesn't normally have access to changes the situation. Somehow Rcade feels that he is not in the wrong in being in that building without being let in by a resident. I'd still like to hear that justification.

#85 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2019-07-10 07:35 PM | Reply

"aggressive" started when he rushed the door...

You don't know he rushed the door. He could've walked up to it at the same pace Cukor walked out.

Conservatives lost any claim to being a follow-the-rules crowd when they put Trump in the White House.

#86 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-10 07:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

If he had ever called the cops on anyone else who he didn't think belonged in the building, he would have mentioned it in his apology.

Then he writes this:
"When the encounter turned confrontational and I couldn't resolve it myself, I called the police."

What's to resolve?
The man is not in the building.
The situation has been resolved.

#87 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-10 07:42 PM | Reply

Somehow Rcade feels that he is not in the wrong in being in that building without being let in by a resident.

Do you think every person who enters a building without being let in by a resident has the cops called on them?

Do you think black people who do it are more likely to be questioned by a random tenant than whites?

If you answer those questions honestly you'll have the justification.

#88 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-10 07:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

This isn't a hard and fast rule...but I have noticed liberals tend to feel awfully entitled and empowered to question authority and rules and would tailgate a locked door....while conservatives would be more inclined to respect the meaning of locked doors and stay out.

Just sayin'.

#84 | Posted by BillJohnson

I've noticed conservatives save their crimes for the boardroom and political office where they can victimize millions of people at a time.

They're not tough on crime. They're tough on POOR crime, and easy on RICH crime.

#89 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-07-10 07:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

This isn't a hard and fast rule...

Ya think? It's not any kind of rule.

#90 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-07-10 07:51 PM | Reply

Redial,

I've lived half my adult life as a conservative and the other half pursuing liberal ends and feeling like a liberal the whole radical routine.

I've been an active member of each side and know their mindset.

I think I understand how each of the sides feel a little better than some people who spend their whole lives on one side hating one group and blindly supporting the other.

I believe I am correct.

Conservative people do tend to be more inclined to respect authority and rules and liberals do not.

#91 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2019-07-10 08:02 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Conservative people do tend to be more inclined to respect authority and rules and liberals do not.

#91 | Posted by BillJohnson

Yes. Wall street bankers have so much respect for authority and rules.

I too have been both very conservative and very liberal in my life.
When I was conservative it's because I was getting my news from propaganda sources which filled me with fear and greed. Or because I was simply ignorant on many topics. There's a reason more education makes you more liberal and it's not because of brainwashing. It's because you learn how conservative solutions have never worked and are the source of so much suffering and pain in the world.

#92 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-07-10 08:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I believe I am correct.

I believe you do too.

#93 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-07-10 08:07 PM | Reply

Rcade,

Thus...going into a locked space you don't live in is perfectly fine.

Why bother to have locks?

Hell...you people feel the same way about borders.

Why am I not surprised?

#94 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2019-07-10 08:08 PM | Reply

"This isn't a hard and fast rule...but I have noticed liberals tend to feel awfully entitled and empowered to question authority and rules and would tailgate a locked door....while conservatives would be more inclined to respect the meaning of locked doors and stay out."

Which one was it when Henry Louis Gates got arrested for trying to enter his own locked home?

#95 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-10 08:11 PM | Reply

"Thus...going into a locked space you don't live in is perfectly fine."

Nobody lives in the lobby.

#96 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-10 08:12 PM | Reply

Check it out:
Everybody who thinks Zimmerman did nothing wrong, thinks Cukor was not only not wrong, but did right.
It's kinda boring.

#97 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-10 08:15 PM | Reply

Speak,

"Yes. Wall street bankers have so much respect for authority and rules."

Do you really believe they feel aligned with any political party?

I mean...which party pads their pocket is all they care about.

Not about any principles or actual values other than what's in it for me.

I hear what you're saying but they are in a world all to themselves.

They don't have any principles except greed, greed, greed.

#98 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2019-07-10 08:25 PM | Reply

They don't have any principles except greed, greed, greed.

#98 | Posted by BillJohnson

You dont have to go all the way to wall street to find that mentality.

Conservatives of all socio economic levels break laws in their own ways. From the rednecks using illegal fireworks in the trailer park, to business owners hiring illegal labor, to insurance execs figuring out new ways to screw the sick.

We just hear more about poor minority criminals on the news because they can't afford the lawyers that keep crimes out of the news.

#99 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-07-10 08:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

This isn't a hard and fast rule...but I have noticed liberals tend to feel awfully entitled and empowered to question authority and rules and would tailgate a locked door....while conservatives would be more inclined to respect the meaning of locked doors and stay out.
Just sayin'.
#84 | Posted by BillJohnson

If one doesn't question authority they become sheep and are easily led to the slaughter.

#100 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-07-10 08:57 PM | Reply

"Hell...you people feel the same way about borders."

I was thinking just earlier how rcade has taken the "open borders" concept to a whole new level in order to quell his white guilt.

#101 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-10 09:09 PM | Reply

If one doesn't question authority they become sheep and are easily led to the slaughter.

#100 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

You held the opposite view when Obama was president.

#102 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-07-10 09:28 PM | Reply

I was thinking just earlier how rcade has taken the "open borders" concept to a whole new level in order to quell his white guilt.

Treating random black people like I treat random white people is not white guilt. Calling it that makes you sound like a Richard Spencer starter kit.

White people make too many excuses for white people. It's like you think we're all too pathetic and fearful to handle life without the occasional lapse into black-people-are-near-me panic.

#103 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-10 09:57 PM | Reply

Thus...going into a locked space you don't live in is perfectly fine.

I just saw somebody go into the neighborhood swimming pool before the gate closed. I didn't know that person.

Should I have interrogated them, told them to leave and called the cops, Bill? Do you need to know the races of the people involved before you answer?

#104 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-10 10:02 PM | Reply

What if this were a school instead of an apt bldg? Let him in and stop questioning him?

#105 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-07-10 11:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Lord help me, Black Jesus. Michel started filming AFTER CUKOR CALLED THE COPS ON HIM."

You must have watched a different video from the one linked to in this thread, because the one I saw clearly started before Cukor decided to call the cops on the apparent trespasser who had no interest in trying to convince him he wasn't one.

#106 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-10 11:53 PM | Reply

"White people call the cops on innocent blacks ALL THE TIME"

Rcade, I believe you mean that literally when you say that. Whenever a white person calls the cops on a black person, you automatically assume that the black person is innocent and the white person is in the wrong. This is racial bias and bigotry on your part, and it's not cool.

#107 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-10 11:58 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"I just saw somebody go into the neighborhood swimming pool before the gate closed. I didn't know that person."

It might be different if you actually lived or worked in that swimming pool.

#108 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-11 12:01 AM | Reply

"What if this were a school instead of an apt bldg?"

Then blacks are far less a threat than whites.

#109 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-11 12:26 AM | Reply

"Whenever a white person calls the cops on a black person, you automatically assume that the black person is innocent and the white person is in the wrong."

You're saying RCade is reverse racist against whites, because of White Guilt.
And this isn't a thing you can be convinced you're wrong about, either.
And it's not just RCade, you think everyone who thinks Zimmerman acted badly is reverse racist against whites, because of White Guilt.

#110 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-11 12:33 AM | Reply

"What if this were a school instead of an apt bldg?"
Then blacks are far less a threat than whites.

#109 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

What does skin color have to do with an unknown person entering a school by tailgating behind an authorized person?

#111 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-07-11 12:48 AM | Reply

...because of White Guilt.
#110 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Where was this stated?

#112 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-07-11 12:49 AM | Reply

"Where was this stated?"

Since most of us sane people have him killfiled, I think only Spoofy can answer that for you.

#113 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-11 01:02 AM | Reply

"It's like you think we're all too pathetic and fearful to handle life without the occasional lapse into black-people-are-near-me panic."

This is how you see all white people by default. Just like you see black people as too pathetic and fearful to display the same empathy they expect from others. Please stop projecting.

#114 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-11 01:42 AM | Reply

I was thinking just earlier how rcade has taken the "open borders" concept to a whole new level in order to quell his white guilt.
#101 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

#115 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-11 01:56 AM | Reply

A self-realization smirk if I know one.

#116 | Posted by fresno500 at 2019-07-11 04:36 AM | Reply

"A self-realization smirk if I know one"

You guys who think your experts on facial expressions remind me of my grandfather. When I was young, he had a very bad temper and wound angrily yell at people until his face turned red. As an automatic defense mechanism, me and my siblings would grimace, but he perceived it as a smirk and thought we were mocking him, which made him angrier. It wouldn't surprise me you guys also had the same anger management problems that he had when he was alive.

#117 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-11 10:37 AM | Reply

This is how you see all white people by default.

You can't seem to handle it when white people are criticized for alleged racism.

We have enough incidents like this happening to black people minding their own business that we can see the pattern. A lot of white people call the cops on black people for dubious reasons.

You will talk yourself until you're blue in the face to avoid admitting that it might be racism. Fine. But most people recognize the world as it is today, where there's still a lot of racism to overcome.

Cukor might be a decent tolerant person in most ways. In this one he was exhibiting racism. He could've tried a different approach than racing to call the cops on a black man. He felt safe enough around Michel to stand there with his kid.

Somebody's going to say Michel could've tried a different approach too. Yes, he could have. But nothing he did put Cukor in fear for his life. Cukor calling the cops did do that. So I put more burden on him to behave better.

#118 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-11 01:57 PM | Reply

A self-realization smirk if I know one.

That looked like a smirk to me too. I will concede that some people do have resting smirk face. We should put them on an island someplace and never visit it again.

#119 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-11 01:59 PM | Reply

"You will talk yourself until you're blue in the face to avoid admitting that it might be racism."

You're being deliberately obtuse now. I said way back in post #20, which you quoted four posts later, "Maybe he's racist." But there was not and still is not any evidence to support that conclusion.

What you're doing here is exactly the same as the racists who knowingly make prejudicial judgements against black individuals based solely on the behavior of other black people. Come on, man, you're better than this.

#120 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-11 03:11 PM | Reply

" I will concede that some people do have resting smirk face. We should put them on an island someplace and never visit it again."

To reference an old joke which is now very politically incorrect, if you put a knife in those types of people's hands then the problem will take care of itself...

Are we woke yet?

#121 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-11 03:18 PM | Reply

Rcade, in your opinion, is anyone at all to be challenged in any scenario where they tailgate through a secure door behind an authorized person who has swiped their card?

Personally, I see this as a potential security loophole. "I'm a person of color and you can't challenge me" is opening a door *literally* for disgruntled employees, abusive ex's, thieves, psycho shooters, or whatever. There's a reason for secure doors and people pay a premium for the privilege of safety. If nobody can be challenged then security is useless.

Also, in the article, it was stated that Michel declined to provide information as to who he was visiting or to step outside and use the callbox outside. That right there warrants a call to police. The sad fact is that in todays society, security is becoming increasingly necessary. I can't imagine that you would support this at a school or daycare. Why support it for a residential building?

As to racism, I truly believe we're getting better as human beings as opposed to worse. Racism will always exist to some extent, but in this this particular case, I believe race bias is being injected where it didn't exist. The situation of concern that existed is building security, not skin color.

#122 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-07-11 03:33 PM | Reply

"I said way back in post #20, which you quoted four posts later, "Maybe he's racist."

But only because anybody could be racist, right?
Not because of anything in this video, right?

You seem pretty sure that RCade is racist, or is that just a "maybe" too?

#123 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-11 03:37 PM | Reply

"prejudicial judgements against black individuals based solely on the behavior of other black people"

It's racist to make judgments about white people who call the cops on black people for basically nothing?

#124 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-11 03:39 PM | Reply

Rcade, in your opinion, is anyone at all to be challenged in any scenario where they tailgate through a secure door behind an authorized person who has swiped their card?

If people in a gated building or community want to question EVERYBODY, then question EVERYBODY. Don't pick and choose. And don't race to call the cops on a person when you don't even feel the person is a threat.

I've advocated that Michel be treated the way I'd want to be treated in the same situation. That's all. I've walked through locking doors when I was allowed to be somewhere. Nobody challenged me or called the cops.

If I never did that -- some of you act like that's a serious offense -- maybe I'd feel differently. But to me it's a technicality. If I'm invited to be somewhere and a door's open I take it.

#125 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-11 03:58 PM | Reply

"If people in a gated building or community want to question EVERYBODY, then question EVERYBODY. Don't pick and choose. And don't race to call the cops on a person when you don't even feel the person is a threat."

This wasn't some random questioning of someone in the building. Michel grabbed a closing security door behind an authorized user.

"I've advocated that Michel be treated the way I'd want to be treated in the same situation. That's all. I've walked through locking doors when I was allowed to be somewhere. Nobody challenged me or called the cops."

If someone had challenged you, would become outraged and refuse to explain why you tailgated instead of swiping access?

"If I never did that -- some of you act like that's a serious offense -- maybe I'd feel differently. But to me it's a technicality. If I'm invited to be somewhere and a door's open I take it."

This wasn't an unlocked open door. Had it been such, we wouldn't even be discussing it. This was a security door requiring badge access, a person circumvented that security and was challenged. The person challenged then refused to give any info use the callbox and claimed racism.

This is a building security issue, not a skin color issue. Michel was predisposed to racial bias and assumed racism from the get go, declining to cooperate, and further claiming he was in potential danger from police - also a predisposition. Michel is being race sensitive and playing the victim.

#127 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-07-11 04:08 PM | Reply

Also, in the article, it was stated that Michel declined to provide information as to who he was visiting or to step outside and use the callbox outside. That right there warrants a call to police.

Cukor wasn't a cop. He wasn't a security guard. He wasn't the owner of the building. He can ask questions (free country), but Michel wasn't obligated to answer them.

Your position -- ANSWER MY QUESTIONS IMMEDIATELY OR I CALL THE COPS -- empowers white people to harass black people.

#128 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-11 04:10 PM | Reply

"This is a building security issue, not a skin color issue."

Was the man inside the building?

#129 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-11 04:10 PM | Reply

Michel grabbed a closing security door behind an authorized user.

So what? It happens all the time. I've never been challenged when I did it. You haven't either I bet.

If someone had challenged you, would become outraged and refuse to explain why you tailgated instead of swiping access?

If I was black and it had happened to be multiple times in the past, then ---- yeah I'd be mad about it.

Since I'm white and nobody hassles me about things like that, it would be easier to be patient with Liam Neeson. But Liam probably lets me walk right in instead of challenging me.

#130 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-11 04:15 PM | Reply

"So what? It happens all the time. I've never been challenged when I did it. You haven't either I bet."

I have been challenged when I did that.
It didn't end with me entering the building.
It also didn't end with anyone calling the cops on me.

#131 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-11 04:17 PM | Reply

This is a building security issue, not a skin color issue.

It's always called a "security issue" when black people are hassled for being somewhere.

George Zimmerman thought it was a "security issue" when he saw his neighbor's black teen-age son walking home in the rain.

#132 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-11 04:18 PM | Reply

I'm unclear on whether this video was filmed in the lobby or outside.
Anyone know?

#133 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-11 04:19 PM | Reply

It happened right here, in the doorway to the right of the Mission truck:

Google Maps

Michel was standing in the open door. Cukor was standing right outside it with his son. Michel stepped outside when he saw his friend to help that person out of their car.

#134 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-11 04:23 PM | Reply

I was curious about the building. It has 37 units and a two-bedroom apartment with 1,000 square feet currently is selling for $1.2 million.

www.zillow.com

#135 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-11 04:28 PM | Reply

If you like having endless arguments like this about personal conflicts, Reddit has a subreddit called ------------- that's pretty wild:

www.reddit.com

#136 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-11 04:29 PM | Reply

" So what? It happens all the time. I've never been challenged when I did it. You haven't either I bet."

I work at a secure facility, so yes, I've been challenged and I'm required to challenge. Simple things like coming back from lunch and forget to have my badge and lanyard visible. And these are from people that may know me from sight, but not personally, or work directly with them.

I'm thinking more along the lines of disgruntled employees and ex's about to carry out a shooting, which could take place at an employer, a school, or a residence. When I first entered the work world in the 80's, secure doors were rare. Today, almost every site I work at is secure and requires badged access or an escort.

Schools are locked now, employers have badge access, gov't and public buildings have limited entrance access, courts have guards and metal detectors, airports have restricted public access. When you say, "Your position -- ANSWER MY QUESTIONS IMMEDIATELY OR I CALL THE COPS -- empowers white people to harass black people" you're presupposing skin color as opposed to todays security issues. The initial challenge in this scenario is the door access card itself. Michel sidestepped it, and deserved to be challenged. His unwillingness to explain his actions warrented a call to police, not his skin color.

Again, I can't believe you would be supporting the same position were this a school, daycare, airport, court house, gov't building, etc. A secured residence is no different IMO.

#137 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-07-11 04:39 PM | Reply

I work at a secure facility, so yes, I've been challenged and I'm required to challenge.

That's not the kind of situation we're talking about. Obviously there are workplaces, government buildings and the like with security norms far beyond random residential buildings and neighborhoods.

Michel wasn't visiting Fort Knox. He was visiting a friend with another friend who was minutes from getting there.

I'm talking about hotels, libraries, apartment buildings, college dorms and the like, where people come and go and catch an open door all the time. This is a seven-story building with 35 apartments. Nobody in it knows on sight everybody who should be there and who all their guests are.

Maybe you'd live in a place like that and interrogate every single person who "tailgates." I think most people here wouldn't.

#138 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-11 04:59 PM | Reply

Yeah, I get what you're saying; it's not a bank vault. All I'm saying is that we're approaching full security at every building. Maybe not at libraries, convenience stores, and the like, but SURELY college dorms, apt bldgs, living and work spaces. Too many nutters and disgruntled whatevers out there. Too many shooters.

The next evolution for this will be mantraps - single entry systems. So far I've only encountered these at the most secure facilities.

#139 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-07-11 05:12 PM | Reply

All I'm saying is that we're approaching full security at every building.

If our society reaches a point where everybody questions everybody who tailgates, then it won't seem like racial animus to question Wesley. And dude should just get a key code if he's going to come by so often.

#140 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-11 05:16 PM | Reply

I mentioned dorms because I'm so often moving a kid from one to another. They all have security but people tailgate them because there's so much going on.

I don't like this term "tailgate," which I just learned from this discussion. Tailgating involves smoked meats and beer. This situation has neither.

#141 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-11 05:18 PM | Reply

Smart kid. Now embarrassed for life by his father.

#142 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2019-07-11 05:24 PM | Reply

Police identify five dead in north St. Louis County shooting.
Two shot near St. Louis Art Museum, caps off violent weekend.

EVERY day news. And who are these perps? Are we justified in being very
vigilant?

#143 | Posted by Greatamerican at 2019-07-11 06:55 PM | Reply

How often do you call the cops on people, GracieAmazed?

#144 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-11 07:10 PM | Reply

Sorry, GreatAmerican.
You guys all look alike to me.

#145 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-11 07:10 PM | Reply

"Again, I can't believe you would be supporting the same position were this a school, daycare, airport, court house, gov't building, etc. A secured residence is no different IMO."

I've worked on military bases.
To compare them to apartment buildings is stupid, BillJohnson.

#147 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-11 07:19 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

"To compare them to apartment buildings is stupid, BillJohnson."

Not to the people who actually pay to live there.

#148 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2019-07-11 07:35 PM | Reply

Are we justified in being very vigilant?

A crime happened somewhere, so you think black people everywhere should be treated as criminals?

There's a word for that kind of thinking.

#149 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-11 07:38 PM | Reply

Not to the people who actually pay to live there.

Yeah, those people in that building are super security conscious. It took a mastermind to foil the security by stepping into a doorway before it closed.

I'm also a mastermind, which is how I've gotten into so many hotels by the side door without needing to fish out my keycard again while I was holding my crunchwrap and large diet soda.

Thank God that Liam Neeson was there to foil Michel's plot to visit a resident. His particular set of skills was never more sorely tested.

#150 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-11 07:43 PM | Reply

"Not to the people who actually pay to live there."

I've lived in secure access apartment buildings too.
They're nothing like military bases or airports.
Especially after 9/11.

#151 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-11 07:53 PM | Reply

There's a word for that kind of thinking.

#149 | POSTED BY RCADE

Yes..."reality"

#152 | Posted by Greatamerican at 2019-07-11 08:12 PM | Reply

You just called it "reality" that black people everywhere should be treated as criminals.

#153 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-11 08:28 PM | Reply

#153 | POSTED BY RCADE

You just compared black people everywhere to Manchild Michel. Do you think most black folks would appreciate that association? Judging by his body language during the interview with Wesly, I don't think Don Lemon would.

#154 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-07-11 08:51 PM | Reply

You just called all black people a manchild, is that the joke?

#155 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-11 09:20 PM | Reply

Do you like these odds?
The overall crime rate in Orlando is 126% higher than the national average. For every 100,000 people, there are 16.98 daily crimes that occur in Orlando. Orlando is safer than 5% of the cities in the United States. In Orlando you have a 1 in 17 chance of becoming a victim of any crime.

#156 | Posted by Greatamerican at 2019-07-11 09:41 PM | Reply

"In Orlando you have a 1 in 17 chance of becoming a victim of any crime."

I'm going to Disneyworld!

#157 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-11 09:44 PM | Reply

#157 - that's what skews the numbers for Orlando. Millions of people, crime that's committed (hotel room robbery, etc.) and all counted against the population that lives there. It's a dramatic number - if you don't understand what it actually represents.

#158 | Posted by YAV at 2019-07-11 10:07 PM | Reply

Millions of people VISITING.

#159 | Posted by YAV at 2019-07-11 10:08 PM | Reply

And who are these perps? Are we justified in being very
vigilant?

#143 | Posted by Greatamerican

You're safe. They only come out after dark, your bedtime.

#160 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-07-12 03:03 AM | Reply

Do you like these odds?

Do I like the odds of being safe in Orlando? I've spent a lot of time in Orlando over the past 25 years, in many different parts of town, and have never been the victim of a crime.

So yes I like the odds.

But don't let my safety change your mind. Go hide under the bed with your calculator and your crime statistics. We'll tell you when it's safe to come out.

#161 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-12 11:01 AM | Reply

You just compared black people everywhere to Manchild Michel.

What a surprise to see you express contempt for the black man who was committing the heinous crime of visiting a friend.

#162 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-12 11:03 AM | Reply

In a piece that is over-the-top but has some funny lines, The Root addresses Cukor.

www.theroot.com

"This, to me, is the part where you went from regular white guy into the superpower that white people deploy when confronting a black person; I call it 'deputizing whiteness.' At that moment, your rental agreement and proximity to police made you an honorary sheriff and you called the police when the 'suspect' refused to comply with your demands, or as he so eloquently put it, 'I don't have to tell you -----.' ...

"History has shown that black men telling white men to '---- off' hasn't ended well. But you weren't really willing to put it all on the line and show out to stop the 'trespasser' from entering the building. Nah, ----, you called the police and that's why we are here now. What you didn't realize is that Black Twitter is another kind of police; a different kind of cousin that will contact your job and ask if this is the kind of person they want to employ."

#163 | Posted by rcade at 2019-07-12 11:58 AM | Reply

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