Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, July 04, 2019

The Justice Department told a federal judge on Wednesday that it had been "instructed" to try to find a way to get the citizenship question back on the 2020 census, after the Supreme Court blocked its previous effort to do so last month.

Advertisement

More

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

The following exchanges are as they appear on the court transcript:

U.S. District Judge George Hazel: [T]his morning I saw a tweet that got my attention. I don't know how many federal judges have Twitter accounts, but I happen to be one of them, and I follow the President, and so I saw a tweet that directly contradicted the position that Mr. Gardner had shared with me yesterday.

Josh Gardner, DOJ attorney: Your Honor ... I've been with the United States Department of Justice for 16 years, through multiple Administrations, and I've always endeavored to be as candid as possible with the Court. What I told the Court yesterday was absolutely my best understanding of the state of affairs ...

Gardner: The tweet this morning was the first I had heard of the President's position on this issue, just like the plaintiffs and Your Honor. I do not have a deeper understanding of what that means at this juncture other than what the President has tweeted. But, obviously, as you can imagine, I am doing my absolute best to figure out what's going on ...

_______________

Judge Hazel: I assume, although maybe I'm wrong about this, that the parties aren't suggesting I can enjoin the President of the United States from tweeting things. Maybe you are suggesting that. But I will say my initial reaction to that is to have some concern.

_______________

Joseph Hunt, assistant attorney general for the civil division: We at the Department of Justice have been instructed to examine whether there is a path forward, consistent with the Supreme Court's decision, that would allow us to include the citizenship question on the census. We think there may be a legally available path under the Supreme Court's decision. We're examining that, looking at near-term options to see whether that's viable and possible.

Hunt: And so to the extent we can identify an option for that to work, if we continue to examine the decision and believe that we have a viable path forward to that work, our current plan would be to file a motion in the Supreme Court to request instructions on remand to govern further proceedings in order to simplify and expedite the remaining litigation and provide clarity to the process going forward.

________________

Judge Hazel: If you were Facebook and an attorney for Facebook told me one thing, and then I read a press release from Mark Zuckerberg telling me something else, I would be demanding that Mark Zuckerberg appear in court with you the next time because I would be saying I don't think you speak for your client anymore.

#1 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-07-03 06:34 PM | Reply

"If you were Facebook and an attorney for Facebook told me one thing, and then I read a press release from Mark Zuckerberg telling me something else, I would be demanding that Mark Zuckerberg appear in court with you the next time because I would be saying I don't think you speak for your client anymore."

Isn't there an Actual Lawyer around here who can help us sort this out?

#2 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-07-03 09:46 PM | Reply

This is the lead story last night on Rachel's show as she did a deep dive into the transcripts, some of which are quoted above. To me it appears that Donald Trump has basically ordered both the DOJ and Commerce Department to ignore the SCOTUS ruling on the census question and to add it regardless. The DOJ attorneys know that they have no recognized way of supporting such a stance as a matter of law and have been given until 2pm Friday to submit paperwork to the judge with a legal rationale.

My belief is that this nation's laws and Constitution (and people) are currently the slow-boiling frogs as Trump continues to raise and raise the temperature of the water before we realize his ultimate ends. Trump will claim that 4 SCOTUS judges support his position and that the others are exercising political judgments by opposing him, thereby abdicating their responsibility to be unbiased arbiters (or some other similarly circuitous, tortured illogic based on ignoring the determinant 5 votes and ascending the other losing 4 votes as being correct, just and proper) completely ignoring the supportive legal reasons listed in the majority opinion.

If this indeed is the case, if the career attorneys in Justice do not refuse to ignore the Constitution and serve the illegal and illicit whims of this President, then yet another roadblock will be obliterated; more Executive authoritarianism will become a new norm; and the tacit reality will become that Trump himself is the appellate arbiter of what is legal and just, and settled law is only a suggestion unless he agrees with it.

#3 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-07-04 07:32 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 8

Anyone smell Constitutional crisis? I do.

#4 | Posted by Zed at 2019-07-04 08:31 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Anyone equate ignoring a Supreme Court ruling as crossing a Rubicon? I do.

#5 | Posted by Zed at 2019-07-04 08:31 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

Anyone think Trump will want three terms as president if he can get two? I do.

#6 | Posted by Zed at 2019-07-04 08:32 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Anyone think that Trump intends Ivanka as his successor? I do.

#7 | Posted by Zed at 2019-07-04 08:33 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Anyone think that Trump's base will roll over on all the above? I do.

#8 | Posted by Zed at 2019-07-04 08:34 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Nobody has wished me a Happy Fourth of July this year. Nobody.

And this is Texas.

#9 | Posted by Zed at 2019-07-04 08:42 AM | Reply | Funny: 4 | Newsworthy 1

Trump considers executive order on citizenship question

President Trump is considering an executive order to try to move forward with a citizenship question on the 2020 census, top sources tell Jonathan Swan and me.

"We didn't come this far just to throw in the towel," said a senior administration official with direct knowledge of the conversations.
Administration lawyers are exploring various legal options.

A senior legal source said: "The administration is considering the appropriateness of an executive order that would address the constitutional need for the citizenship question to be included in the 2020 census."

But there is considerable skepticism within the administration that an executive order would succeed.
Why it matters: Trump's insistence on pushing ahead with the question, potentially without doing the legwork the Supreme Court called for, reflects his expansive view of executive power.

A source familiar with some of the administration's internal deliberations said: "I think that there's a good argument to be made that even though the president may lose in litigation at the end of the day, going through that process ultimately makes it clear that it's the chief justice, and not the Executive Branch, that bears responsibility for that unfortunate outcome."

There it is in bold: Trump is politicizing the SCOTUS and weaponizing any opposition to his desires, labeling them as 'partisanship' regardless of what the law and the history of American jurisprudence says.

Does it even need to be said that such a power grab is itself an impeachable offense when the President not only refuses to uphold lawfully-issued orders but undermines the public's faith that such laws hold sway over any presidential edicts that eviscerate the separation of powers defined in the Constitution?

The water continues to get hotter as Trump is cooking democracy into eventual autocratic oblivion should the congressional GOP and the Republican-appointed members of the SCOTUS allow him have his way.

#10 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-07-04 09:25 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Advertisement

Advertisement

--Nobody has wished me a Happy Fourth of July this year. Nobody.

Happy Birthday America!

www.youtube.com

#11 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-07-04 09:31 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#9 | Posted by Zed

Happy Birthday America! Have a Happy Fourth of July Zed!!!!

:)

#12 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-07-04 09:38 AM | Reply

#12 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2

Happy Fourth of Donald.

#13 | Posted by Zed at 2019-07-04 10:20 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

"Nobody has wished me a Happy Fourth of July this year. Nobody." - Zed, Mayor of Zedville, Texas: population 001.

#14 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-07-04 11:49 AM | Reply

Do rightwingers even care that Trump at this moment is directly trying to undermine the separation of powers which is that basis of our Constitution? Please, some hard core rightwinger, please respond. America as we know it is being destroyed. Please, some rightwinger respond.

#15 | Posted by moder8 at 2019-07-04 07:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It will be a sad day for America when the Supreme Court let's Trump do an end run. I suppose now Chief Justice Roberts is in for a rough time until Trump gets over his tantrum ~ which may be never if past history is any example.

I really don't see how anybody could ever vote for this creep a second time. He's sick in the head.

#16 | Posted by Twinpac at 2019-07-04 07:41 PM | Reply

Do rightwingers even care that Trump at this moment is directly trying to undermine the separation of powers which is that basis of our Constitution?

Not enough to do anything about it other than offer off-the-record handwringing and crocodile tears. There has only been one Republican with the spine to stand up and call the Mueller report what it is, namely a scathing indictment of Trump's multiple crimes against this nation's laws and regulations - all to serve his elective purposes, not America's interests.

And that guy just left the GOP party today so I wouldn't be waiting for any others. They're all lemmings until proven otherwise.

#17 | Posted by tonyroma at 2019-07-04 10:28 PM | Reply


This is going to get interesting.

What truck me about the Supreme Court's opinion was how Justice Roberts basically scolded the Trump administration for thinking that the Supreme Court will rubber stamp whatever the Trump administration puts before the Court.

Justice Robert's opinion was an amazing read.

That aside, I see Pres Trump's push of the question into the census as being done for one reason - to energize his base.

Why might Pres Trump be so concerned about whether or not his base is energized? Could he be believing the internal polling of his campaign?

Pushing the question onto the census is putting on full display Pres Trump's weakness going into the campaign season.

#18 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-07-04 10:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1


Opinion analysis: Court orders do-over on citizenship question in census case
www.scotusblog.com

...Roberts acknowledged that courts should be "deferential" when reviewing an agency's action, but he countered – citing Judge Henry Friendly, for whom he clerked on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit – that "we are not required to exhibit a naiveté from which ordinary citizens are free." And here, when "the evidence tells a story that does not match the explanation the Secretary gave for his decision," judicial review calls for "something better than the explanation offered for the action taken in this case." "In these unusual circumstances," Roberts concluded, the district court was therefore correct to send the case back to the Department of Commerce for it to provide a better explanation. "Reasoned decision making," Roberts emphasized, "calls for an explanation for agency action. What was provided here was more of a distraction."...

"... the evidence tells a story that does not match the explanation the Secretary gave for his decision ... "

It must really suck when the Supreme Court says you are a liar.

The Supreme Court.

Calls you a liar.


... "Reasoned decision making," Roberts emphasized, "calls for an explanation for agency action. What was provided here was more of a distraction." ...

Wow.




#19 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-07-04 10:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1


@#18

What truck me

should be

What struck me

#20 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-07-04 10:49 PM | Reply

Apparently, Trump's "Hail Mary" is an Executive Order in an attempt to over-ride the Supreme Court's decision. That's the best the DOJ could come up with.

We all know this isn't going to be the end of this. When Trump isn't a happy camper, nobody is a happy camper. He's going to go after Roberts with tooth and claw. My guess is that Trump's gutter dwellers (dirty tricksters) are hard at work right now trying to dig up dirt and falsify accusations against Roberts. If Trump sticks to his usual m.o., he'll try to force Roberts to resign ~ under a cloud of suspicion that Trump himself creates.

Don't forget, we're dealing with a maniac who is just one step short of homicide to get his way. He has NO, ZERO, NADA, ZILCH moral compass.

Call that an omen of things to come if Trump's authoritarian/dictator dream ever comes true.

#21 | Posted by Twinpac at 2019-07-05 05:41 AM | Reply

Ask if any census ever counted the number of aliens residing in the United States? Yep, Starting with Jefferson and many times afterwards.

#22 | Posted by docnjo at 2019-07-05 06:01 AM | Reply

Trump is a predator. He gets his sense of power from the victims he creates.

The weaker, the younger, the more helpless, the better ~ up until now. But he's graduated. Now, his perceived sense of power over the Supreme Court and the Constitution has come into full view.

And there's nobody in the DOJ to stop him. Very clever.

Now if he can just manage to cheat his way into another term, democracy itself is on the menu.

I kid you not. Say goodbye to that Bill of Rights you've taken for granted all your life.

#23 | Posted by Twinpac at 2019-07-05 06:05 AM | Reply

Trump may not technically be a traitor (because we're not at war) but by every other definition he's giving aid and comfort to America's enemies. Russia being the most obvious, then North Korea. All under the brutal control of dictators he calls his "friends."

People who vote for or support Trump have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to see where he's headed.

#24 | Posted by Twinpac at 2019-07-05 06:18 AM | Reply

DOCNJO

"Ask if any census ever counted the number of aliens residing in the United States? Yep, Starting with Jefferson and many times afterwards."

Try adjusting your thinking to the 21st Century where a census means more than just counting noses.

#25 | Posted by Twinpac at 2019-07-05 06:26 AM | Reply

#25 | Posted by Twinpac So FDR was wrong when he did it?

#26 | Posted by docnjo at 2019-07-05 06:27 AM | Reply

DOCNJO

Don't be so obtuse.

#27 | Posted by Twinpac at 2019-07-05 06:44 AM | Reply

#27 | Posted by Twinpac Who is obtuse, the one that cites a fact, many census in the past counted resident aliens, non-citizens and those who were citizens. Or the one who says this census was something unique?

#28 | Posted by docnjo at 2019-07-05 06:54 AM | Reply

DOCNJO

Read the Supreme Court decision.

#29 | Posted by Twinpac at 2019-07-05 07:24 AM | Reply

#29 | Posted by Twinpac Please cite what precedence the court cited, there was none.

#30 | Posted by docnjo at 2019-07-05 07:30 AM | Reply

There is a subtle, but distinct, difference between asking if one is foreign born or if one is a citizen. Similarly, there is a difference between asking those questions of a head of household and asking those questions of everyone in a household.

Here's the bottom line:

"But if the 2020 census form does ultimately ask about citizenship status, it will be the first time the U.S. census has directly asked for the citizenship status of every person living in every household."

www.npr.org

#31 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2019-07-05 07:33 AM | Reply

#30 The Court cited plenty of precedent in its opinion. Wtf are you talking about?

#32 | Posted by JOE at 2019-07-05 07:53 AM | Reply

JOE

"Wtf are you talking about?"

He doesn't know. He's just lonely and looking for attention.

#33 | Posted by Twinpac at 2019-07-05 08:15 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

He's just lonely and looking for attention.

#33 | Posted by Twinpac

I hear Snippy is available. They should get along real well.

#34 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-07-05 02:39 PM | Reply

"Nobody has wished me a Happy Fourth of July this year."

Because, it is not called that anymore.

It's called the Fourth of Trump.

#35 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-07-05 02:57 PM | Reply

Do rightwingers even care that Trump at this moment is directly trying to undermine the separation of powers which is that basis of our Constitution?

----

That's why he admires dictators so much. No checks and balances against their power.

#36 | Posted by pirate at 2019-07-06 11:33 AM | Reply

Comments are closed for this entry.

Home | Breaking News | Comments | User Blogs | Stats | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Privacy | Copyright 2019 World Readable

Drudge Retort