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Tuesday, June 25, 2019

Kansas will allow transgender people to change their birth certificates so the documents reflect their gender identities under a legal settlement that Democratic Gov. Laura Kelly's young administration and LGBTQ-rights advocates announced Monday.

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I'm shocked that you of all people posted this. Thanks Boaz.

#1 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-06-25 07:10 PM | Reply

Congrats, Laura.

This is progress, yes?

#2 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-06-25 07:11 PM | Reply

Thanks Boaz.

#1 | Posted by LauraMohr

He may have posted it but I doubt he is happy about it.

#3 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-06-25 07:51 PM | Reply

#3,

Actually, I dont care.

If it makes Laura happy, whatever. It doesnt affect me.

#4 | Posted by boaz at 2019-06-25 08:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I've always said, a state can do what it wants. Would I want this in my state, no.

But we are 50 individual states with different cultures. It just so happens the state where Laura lives did this, so it is good for Laura.

#5 | Posted by boaz at 2019-06-25 08:33 PM | Reply

I'm shocked that you of all people posted this.

I'll let you in on a little secret.

You guys know a little bit about it, but not everything. The persona I do on here is not like me totally. Well, some is..

But anyway, right now, I have family members who are gay, and I even have a good friend I grew up with who is transgender now. We grew up as boys, he became trans after high school. We've kept in touch. She knows how I feel about her lifestyle. But it doesnt bother our friendship. She totally looks like a real girl now 30 years later. She's had the surgery, so I guess, I consider her a female now. I showed her Laura's article, he thinks Laura is cool and a badass. I still see the kid I grew up with.

Matter of fact, she's out on my back patio now, talking to my wife and brother, with whom we all grew up together.

And yes, at this moment, she's barefoot.

#6 | Posted by boaz at 2019-06-25 08:50 PM | Reply

#6

If only every conservative had an opportunity to spend time with LGBT+ people, they'd see we're all the same.

Also. Near the very end. You refer to her as a he. She's no longer a man.

Otherwise. I'm glad you are more humane in real life than you come off as on the DR.

#7 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-06-25 08:55 PM | Reply

It's Bob Dole Approved!

#8 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-06-25 09:02 PM | Reply

Pass the corn cobs!

#9 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-06-25 09:03 PM | Reply

"This decision acknowledges that transgender people have the same rights as anyone else, including the right to easily obtain a birth certificate that reflects who they are."

Really? Who else can easily obtain a birth certificate that reflects an identity they didn't have at birth? Can anyone who legally changes their name also have it changed on their birth certificate? If I was born in one state (or country) but lived in another most of my life, can I change my birthplace on the certificate to one I identify more with?

#10 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-06-25 09:05 PM | Reply

You refer to her as a he. She's no longer a man.

Personally, I dont agree. He will always be a man to me. He's just feminized himself, had a surgery to butcher off his penis and took drugs to make his breasts grow. He's tried to change everything he is physically to match how he wants to be. I do call him (her), only because I still think of him like a brother. I'll give her the pronoun she wants. But we will always be those little boys running around east winston.

#11 | Posted by boaz at 2019-06-25 09:20 PM | Reply

LGBT people are far more compassionate people as a group than the population at large.

#12 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2019-06-25 09:21 PM | Reply

#10 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

Those are all fair questions. Here's the thing though - this piece of legislation is in response to a VERY concerted push by the trans-community and their supporters. Legislation often reflects the will of the public, or at least it's supposed to. If a strong enough push happens to be able to change the location of birth on birth certificates due to identifying with a certain state or city over another, we night see something similar for the location-identity community.

Given the high rate of suicide I'm of the mindset that living life as a transgender person is difficult. This law doesn't hurt anybody and if makes life a little bit better for at least some transgender people in Kansas then I see this as a good thing.

#13 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-06-25 09:21 PM | Reply

#10

I'm sure if you actually wanted to do any of the above you can. Petition for it. Rally people to your cause. Go to the state government. The federal government. Collect signatures. Get politicians to be involved with your cause. Present your case in front of judges. In time, you can create the change you want.

Good luck.

#14 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-06-25 09:33 PM | Reply

"I've always said, a state can do what it wants."

Careful what you wish for: Your state is in court trying to treat you and people who look like you as second-class citizens.

#15 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-06-25 09:50 PM | Reply

Congrats, Laura.
This is progress, yes?

POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2019-06-25 07:11 PM | REPLY

Across the board legal recognition is great progress Yes. But absolute recognition in all facets of life is what we are demanding as well. What good is legal document recognition without rights to public accomidations and equality in sports.

#16 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-06-25 09:59 PM | Reply

Laura,

I understand where you are coming from. When talking about public accommodations and sports I think you can get there for trans boys and men.

For trans girls and women the hurdle is much higher. I've yet to see a serious scientific study that proves lowered testosterone levels negates ALL of the physical advantages males have over females in sports. Recently a trans girl track athlete broke 10 records in one year that had been set by 10 different girls over the course of 20 years. Thrown in a number of other trans girls shattering records in girls sports and to me it looks like lowered testosterone level alone doesn't appear to create a fair and level playing field. If this is the case than Transwomen are truly in a tough spot. There simply aren't enough of them to create a "tweener" category in sports if that is where they truly fall physically.

I'm posting from my phone so I'll address the public accommodations in a moment.

#17 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-06-25 10:19 PM | Reply

I've never understood the whole going back and changing sex on the birth certificate document, except in cases of people who are medically intersex and had their biological sexes misidentified. Birth certificates describe physical sex, not social gender, at the time a person is born.

"Given the high rate of suicide I'm of the mindset that living life as a transgender person is difficult."

The high suicide rate of transgender people probably has far more to do with how society treats them than a single letter on a historical document which was true at the time it was made. If someone has a legal ID, such as a driver's license or passport which recognizes the legal sex/gender change, why should anyone even need to see their birth certificate?

"If a strong enough push happens to be able to change the location of birth on birth certificates due to identifying with a certain state or city over another, we night see something similar for the location-identity community."

Certainly you can see the problems this would cause if someone had the birthplace on the birth certificate changed from Ciudad Juarez to El Paso, or from Sankt Peterburg to Saint Petersburg? It could even create a constitutional issue if a foreign national used it as a loophole to run for president.

#18 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-06-25 10:22 PM | Reply

"The high suicide rate of transgender people probably has far more to do with how society treats them"

Like how society refuses to call them by the gender they've become?

#19 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-06-25 10:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Certainly you can see the problems this would cause if someone had the birthplace on the birth certificate changed from Ciudad Juarez to El Paso, or from Sankt Peterburg to Saint Petersburg? It could even create a constitutional issue if a foreign national used it as a loophole to run for president.
#18 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

Certainly you're aware transgender people have been fighting for the right to legally change their gender. It wasn't a simple decision to allow this to happen. Many people have undoubtedly discussed the topic and decided this was an acceptable plan of action.

Your example is more extreme than a gender change on the certificate.

But there's a process and procedure to changing the law. It wasn't a spur of the moment decision.

I'm sure your example would be rejected for the reasons you've stated.

#20 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-06-25 10:30 PM | Reply

Sentinel,

Again, you raise excellent points. As I consider them I become increasingly torn on this. As you point out, the birth certificate is a snapshot in time and I'm beginning to see not only the slippery-slope but also other problems you present.

An infant is barely more than a parasitic cluster of cells, that it can know it's gender - a social construct - at the time of birth is kind of ridiculous - just playing out the intersectionality of the LBGT + pro-abortion peeps.

Basically what you are saying, if I'm understanding you correctly, is a gender-change should be treated just like a name-change. Gender on the driver's license to match gender-identity? Check. Gender on the birth certificate different from sex at birth? Nope.

That's logical and I agree with you about this. Having said that, I am not bothered by this law in Kansas.

#21 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-06-25 10:31 PM | Reply

"The high suicide rate of transgender people probably has far more to do with how society treats them"

Like how society refuses to call them by the gender they've become?

#19 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

I'm guessing that plays a role but a relatively small one.

To me it would seem the internal struggles and difficulties with gender and sex butting heads would far outweigh whether or not a librarian fails to use the preferred pronoun.

#22 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-06-25 10:34 PM | Reply

"To me it would seem the internal struggles and difficulties with gender and sex butting heads would far outweigh whether or not a librarian fails to use the preferred pronoun."

A librarian?

A society, a government, a political party, a religion, a boss, a parent, the list goes on and on.

Truly a stunningly ignorant comment, JeffJ.

#23 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-06-25 10:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I'm guessing that plays a role but a relatively small one."

It's a brick in the wall. Imagine if people refused to refer to you as a male.

#24 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-06-25 10:38 PM | Reply

-whether or not a librarian fails to use the preferred pronoun.

Or an anonymous blogger.

#25 | Posted by eberly at 2019-06-25 10:39 PM | Reply

-Imagine if people refused to refer to you as a male.

I've been referred to as a female countless times here and solely for the purpose of it being an insult.

#26 | Posted by eberly at 2019-06-25 10:41 PM | Reply

Laura,

The public spaces situation is even more complicated than the sports situation.

Bathrooms? Yeah, maybe.

Locker rooms? Sexual abuse centers? Prisons?

Those are a MUCH more difficult sell, especially given the trans-advocates have done a piss-poor job of thinking through how to screen out cis-gender predators who are eager to take advantage of their "honor system" approach to self-identifying as transgender.

Again, I think this predominately applies to trans women.

#27 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-06-25 10:46 PM | Reply

"I've been referred to as a female countless times here and solely for the purpose of it being an insult.
#26 | POSTED BY EBERLY"

Well I hope you made it to the fainting couch in time.

#28 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-06-25 10:48 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

"I'm guessing that plays a role but a relatively small one."

It's a brick in the wall. Imagine if people refused to refer to you as a male.

#24 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

This is what I grew up with (paraphrased from memory):

Stu: Some people thought Mark cut-back-Davis or Rob Jungle-Vet Gerard would take the honors this year.

Spicoli: Those guys are ----!

That is From Fast Times at Ridgemont High.

Again, it may contribute, but to use your metaphor it's a brick in a much larger wall.

#29 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-06-25 10:52 PM | Reply

The public spaces situation is even more complicated than the sports situation.
Bathrooms? Yeah, maybe.
Locker rooms? Sexual abuse centers? Prisons?
Those are a MUCH more difficult sell, especially given the trans-advocates have done a piss-poor job of thinking through how to screen out cis-gender predators who are eager to take advantage of their "honor system" approach to self-identifying as transgender.
Again, I think this predominately applies to trans women.

POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2019-06-25 10:46 PM | REPLY

It's not a hard sell if you don't deal with the transphobic bigots. You really need to educate yourself on transgender issues if you want to understand them. Oh and stop reading that anti transgender right winged garbage that you are notorious for posting..

#30 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-06-25 10:56 PM | Reply

I'm trying to better understand the issue and have a genuine conversation with you, Laura.

Transphobic bigots exist and they are an impediment. But strip that away and you still have very serious and possibly irreconcilable differences between cis-women and trans-women as it pertains to public accommodations and women's sports.

Your ultimate hurdle isn't me, it's cis-gender women. They are the ones you need to convince. They are the ones whose views you need to take seriously. They are the ones you need to listen to. So far, I have yet to see you give even an iota of consideration to the thoughts of cis-gender women as it pertains to public accommodations and women's sports.

#31 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-06-25 11:07 PM | Reply

People on 'ludes should not drive.

#32 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-06-25 11:08 PM | Reply

Imagine if people refused to refer to you as a male.
#24 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Not exactly, its not random people, its about family ...

A LBGT individual with a high level of rejection within the family unit is almost 8x more likely to attempt suicide, than those with accepting families.

Invalidation within the family unit is associated/correlates highly with many mental health issues.

After the family its Bullying.... like the shooter in Colorado.

Blaming the State, or others, for not accepting your gender is a small insignificant factor in suicide rates.

#33 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-06-25 11:09 PM | Reply

Laura,

It's a nice warm evening (for a change). I'm going for a walk to get in some steps. I'll check back in before going to bed. I'm just giving you a head's up so you don't think I'm just blowing you off if you address my last post and I take a while to respond...

#34 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-06-25 11:09 PM | Reply

A LBGT individual with a high level of rejection within the family unit is almost 8x more likely to attempt suicide, than those with accepting families.

#33 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

That's probably true. 2 years ago I had a gay cousin get married. The wedding was out-of-town. My dad is the oldest of 7 so we are talking about a LOT of aunts/uncles/cousins. 2 cousins were unable to attend due to work conflicts. EVERYBODY else was able to attend. Contrast that with my cousin's husband. Not a single family member of his attended and it had nothing to do with a conflict of any kind. They unanimously opposed his lifestyle choice. He's a great guy and thankfully he fell in love with my cousin who is also a great guy. I have a hard time imagining my family flipping a switch regarding their love for me over something like sexual preference, which isn't a choice, nor is it immoral.

#35 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-06-25 11:15 PM | Reply

"Your example is more extreme than a gender change on the certificate."

It's really not. It's exactly the sort of thing Dreamer-Advocates would be pushing for, if the thought occurred to them.

If someone feels they were born in the wrong body, and they want to change their body and have that change legally recognized, then I support them. It doesn't change the body they were born in, just like changing your nationality (not an easy process) doesn't change the place you were born in.

#36 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-06-25 11:17 PM | Reply

20

That's my point. No big deal.

#37 | Posted by eberly at 2019-06-25 11:31 PM | Reply

I've been referred to as a female countless times here and solely for the purpose of it being an insult.
#26 | POSTED BY EBERLY

I'm pretty sure it's because you're a p***y.

Or was it because you have a p***y?

#38 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-06-26 12:02 AM | Reply

transequality.org

North Carolina Birth Certificate Laws
North Carolina state registrar will issue a new birth certificate upon receipt of a written request by an individual "to change the sex on that individual's birth record because of sex reassignment surgery, if the request is accompanied by a notarized statement from the physician who performed the sex reassignment surgery or from a physician licensed to practice medicine who has examined the individual and can certify that the person has undergone sex reassignment surgery." G.S. § 130A-118.

To apply for an amended birth certificate the applicant should submit:

A handwritten request detailing what changes are to be made to the birth certificate
The Application for a Birth Certificate with section 2 completed (Other = Gender Change)
A certified copy of the court ordered name change (if applicable)
A notarized original letter from the doctor stating that individual has completed surgical procedures OR a certified copy of a court ordered gender change
Payment of any applicable fees (name change = $15, gender change = $15, certificate search and first copy = $24)
Mail application to:

#39 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-06-26 01:28 AM | Reply

The only states that disallow this are Ohio and Tennessee. The 48 others do allow it.

#40 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-06-26 01:33 AM | Reply

I've been referred to as a female countless times here and solely for the purpose of it being an insult.
#26 | POSTED BY comrade EBERLY

An over sensitive little traitorous snowflake would be more accurate.

#41 | Posted by aborted_monson at 2019-06-26 01:42 AM | Reply

#41 | POSTED BY ABORTED_MONSON AT 2019-06-26 01:42 AM | FLAG: sleeping of his drunken rage

#42 | Posted by eberly at 2019-06-26 08:46 AM | Reply

Jeff,

"Those are a MUCH more difficult sell, especially given the trans-advocates have done a piss-poor job of thinking through how to screen out cis-gender predators who are eager to take advantage of their "honor system" approach to self-identifying as transgender."

The problem isn't simply the predators debate, it's how to implement a solution that's doesn't treat straight women and children with contempt in the process.

Some suggestions I've read are down right disrespectful and deliberately inconvienient to these women with children.

#43 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2019-06-27 03:30 PM | Reply

Hard sell indeed this desire to overthrow centuries of tradition and expect it to fly willy nilly.

#44 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2019-06-27 03:34 PM | Reply

Those are a MUCH more difficult sell, especially given the trans-advocates have done a piss-poor job of thinking through how to screen out cis-gender predators who are eager to take advantage of their "honor system" approach to self-identifying as transgender.

Jeff wants to punish transgender people because of his fantasies of raping women in locker rooms and bathrooms.

#45 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-06-27 03:40 PM | Reply

I'm not taking the bait, Clown.

#46 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-06-27 03:42 PM | Reply

#46

That's my conclusion after reading you defend so many rapists.

You're willing to punish millions of transgender people because when you think about being in a woman's locker room, the first idea to pop in your head is, time to start raping.

It's a weird projection you've repeatedly brought up in every thread.

Fact is, transgender people aren't going into restrooms and locker rooms looking to rape. Anymore than gay guys go into men's restrooms or locker rooms looking to rape. Anymore than lesbians going into restrooms or locker rooms looking to rape.

What you're worried about is heterosexual men looking to find easier ways to rape women. There's nothing preventing these people from dressing up as women and doing what ever you imagine.

So, why prevent a portion of society from being free to live their lives comfortably?

Besides. If you want to be a rapist, just move to Alabama. It's rape country.

#47 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-06-27 03:54 PM | Reply

Clown,

That's my conclusion after reading you defend so many rapists.

I stopped reading right there.

I am not taking troll bait.

#48 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-06-27 03:59 PM | Reply

That's fine.

I already said my piece.

#49 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-06-27 04:02 PM | Reply

Clown do you know how to read?

Jeff never once said trans folk are going into bathrooms looking to rape, he said rapists could take advantage of that. I dont know if I agree but I have enough reading comprehension ability to tell those are two separate points.

#50 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2019-06-27 07:57 PM | Reply

I can't do the pronoun part.

I translate multiple languages. These english pronouns are impossible to convert.

If I translate he or she, it's the language equivalent and the prefix/suffix and other accents rely on centuries of grammar. Gender is a serious business in interpreting/translating. Those doing the same job as me find the US creations impossible.

Languages haven't caught up with these societal created nuances.

And, I am called a mother despite being a male in obvious observation.

Birth cert changes to match current conditions makes sense. Heck, I don't care if certs showed before and after data.

#51 | Posted by Petrous at 2019-06-27 08:53 PM | Reply

On the birth certificate side since the Famous NC bathroom bill was based on birth certificate I can see why that would be a big deal. Also for a marriage license you need it, not sure for what else since that is the only time I have needed it in the last 30 years.

JeffJ for the bathroom thing look up Jamie Clayton would you or your wife be more freaked out to share a bathroom with her?

#52 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2019-06-28 05:35 AM | Reply

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