Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, May 21, 2019

In 2018, scientists in the EU produced about 25% of the global share of peer-reviewed science and engineering papers -- more than either China (21%) or the United States (17%). The United States remains the most popular country for junior scientists, particularly those from Asia, in which to seek experience. But the pull of the United States has somewhat waned, owing partly to travel restrictions for students and scholars from several Muslim-majority countries, including Yemen. Applications for specialist visas, which most foreign scientists need to work in the United States, have fallen by 19% since 2016. Conversely, the flow of talent to Europe is on the rise.

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- the flow of talent to Europe is on the rise.

Just wait until they meet up with French and German hospitality.

#1 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-05-21 12:42 PM | Reply

???

vs Trumpian hospitality?

#2 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-05-21 12:46 PM | Reply

--Just wait until they meet up with French and German hospitality.

"France does not belong to the French! Everyone has a right to be here!" one person can be heard yelling into a loudspeaker.

nypost.com

Footage shows hundreds of migrants occupying French airport terminal

#3 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-05-21 12:48 PM | Reply

Nulli and Sherp have never been to France.

But they're sure it's awful there.

#4 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-05-21 12:52 PM | Reply

"France does not belong to the French! Everyone has a right to be here!" one person can be heard yelling into a loudspeaker

I can hear your xenophobia flaring from here.

Go put some lotion on it.

#5 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-05-21 12:54 PM | Reply

France?? most here haven't been to Kansas and they're sure it's awful...

well..right now it is.....we're underwater.

#6 | Posted by eberly at 2019-05-21 12:56 PM | Reply

"most here haven't been to Kansas and they're sure it's awful"

Only once, but I did get my VW camper top stuck in the mud trying to pull a u turn in the middle of the night after realizing the gas station sign was not for a 24 hour operation. Was stuck there for a couple of hours, covered in mud from trying to get out of the ditch, the only light coming from the cabin of the bus, until somebody drove by and was able to pull us out. So awful, I don't know. But my experience was awful

#7 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-05-21 01:02 PM | Reply

most here haven't been to Kansas and they're sure it's awful...

Plenty of DR posters have been to Kansas and Laura lives there.

Pretty sure when they're saying Kansas is awful. They mean the government and the deplorables.

By the way. Have you met Boaz? He hates California so much he acts like we're a different country.

#8 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-05-21 01:07 PM | Reply

--I can hear your xenophobia flaring from here.

I can hear your borderless world idiocy. You've made that clear repeatedly.

#9 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-05-21 01:07 PM | Reply

I can hear your borderless world idiocy. You've made that clear repeatedly.
#9 | POSTED BY XENOPHOBIAN

Did you have a point, xenophobe?

#10 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-05-21 01:14 PM | Reply

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Did you have a point, xenophobe?

#10 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Why is wildly radical exaggeration your only talking point? The fact that no reasonable discussion can take place here mirrors congress, reality TV, Jerry Springer, local council debates, college campuses, the media, anywhere on the internet.

All intelligent rational thought and discourse have disappeared in society.

#11 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-05-21 01:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Yes. His point is that if you support it, common supports it, and most of the rest of us support it, Nulli must be opposed to it. That is always his only point.

#12 | Posted by moder8 at 2019-05-21 03:53 PM | Reply

*common sense

#13 | Posted by moder8 at 2019-05-21 03:58 PM | Reply

"Why is wildly radical exaggeration your only talking point?"

As in "I can hear your borderless world idiocy?"

Perhaps it's worth asking questions inspired by climate deniers:

What's the correct location for the borders on the planet?

What's the correct ranking for the US in terms of peer-reviewed science?

#14 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-05-21 04:00 PM | Reply

#7 | POSTED BY HAGBARD_CELINE AT 2019-05-21 01:02 PM | FLAG: Over the years I've had two Westfalia campers: a '77 and a '80. The would go anywhere come rain, shine or snow and my wife and I are again looking at the upgraded ones by GoWesty [ found on LaSamba.com - one with the more powerful Subaru engine, and all the works to travel when she is ready to retire.

#15 | Posted by MSgt at 2019-05-21 04:42 PM | Reply

"The would go anywhere come rain, shine or snow"

Watch the high winds though.

May not want to visit Wall Drug after all... :)

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-05-21 04:47 PM | Reply

Why is the Retort plastered with manscaping ads?

#17 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2019-05-21 05:52 PM | Reply

What kind of ad is that?

#18 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-05-21 06:24 PM | Reply

"May not want to visit Wall Drug after all."

Driving through South Dakota from Montana was particularly sketchy when the wind was blowing north to south/ south to north. But my shocks were crap.

And yeah, Wall Drug is basically Times Square minus all the lights and broadway theaters.

#19 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-05-21 07:21 PM | Reply

"Why is the Retort plastered with manscaping ads?"

It's based on your browsing history and has nothing to do with rcade. I get Russian mail order bride ads.

#20 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-05-21 07:23 PM | Reply

"Over the years I've had two Westfalia campers: a '77 and a '80."

It was a 69. Pre Westphalia. When my midlife crisis kicks in I'm gonna buy another.

#21 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-05-21 08:11 PM | Reply

#21 | POSTED BY HAGBARD_CELINE

Not with a Russian bride you aren't 😉

#22 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-05-21 08:28 PM | Reply

"Not with a Russian bride you aren't 😉"

Russian brides are out of my price range. At least that shows that the information collected about me isn't complete. Yet.

#23 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-05-21 08:38 PM | Reply

Our science may be lacking, but we're making strides in diversity and inclusiveness.

#24 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-05-22 01:03 AM | Reply

These kind of studies are useless as they think all papers/breakthroughs are equally weighted. Ridiculous. This is similar to IBM racking up patents every year only to become increasingly irrelevant.

#25 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-05-22 01:26 AM | Reply

All intelligent rational thought and discourse have disappeared in society.

#11 | POSTED BY SHEEPLESCHISM

Take a long hard look in the mirror and then see if you can say that again with a straight face.

#26 | Posted by jpw at 2019-05-22 09:39 AM | Reply

Our science may be lacking, but we're making strides in diversity and inclusiveness.

#24 | POSTED BY VISITOR_

No, we aren't. That's why our science is now lacking.

Idiot Republicans have done everything to ensure we coddle Christian views in our science textbooks. Idiot Republicans have refused to promote minority students getting college educations. Idiot Republicans have refused to allow greater numbers of educated foreign workers immigrate to the US. Idiot Republicans have attacked funding for universities on the basis of their liberal inclusive perspective.

Educating a couple white kids isn't going to do it.

#27 | Posted by Sycophant at 2019-05-22 01:29 PM | Reply

Idiot Republicans have done everything to ensure we coddle Christian views in our science textbooks

Can you provide an example?

Idiot Republicans have refused to promote minority students getting college educations.

It's idiot Democrats who are discriminating against over-achieving Asians.

Idiot Republicans have refused to allow greater numbers of educated foreign workers immigrate to the US.

Trump got lambasted by idiot Democrats for promoting a merit-based immigration system.

Idiot Republicans have attacked funding for universities on the basis of their liberal inclusive perspective.

Idiot Republicans have attacked funding for universities on the basis of their illiberal discriminatory perspective. FTFY

#28 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-05-22 01:38 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Take one look at a heliumrat conspiracy thread and its obvious the US's scientific prowess is trending down.

#29 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2019-05-22 01:45 PM | Reply

I am not bothered one bit that our educational institutions, research organizations, and tech companies are seeing a drop in the percentage of visa holders from China. A huge number of them are under the thumb of Big China, encouraged under duress to undermine our technological advantage by bringing what they learned home. Let them steal from somewhere else.

#30 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2019-05-22 01:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

www.newsweek.com

www.foxnews.com

www.scmp.com

www.nbcnews.com

beta.washingtonpost.com

#31 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2019-05-22 01:51 PM | Reply

"Can you provide an example?"

Google "Texas textbooks" and get back to us.

#32 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-05-22 01:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#30

So. The only reason America was doing well scientifically, was because of the Chinese?

You're of the opinion Americans are stupid?

It's not because Republicans are anti education? It's not because conservatives like Betsy DeVos have been instrumental in the destruction of public education? Because conservatives attack science every chance they get? Because science challenges their religious beliefs?

It was the Chinese this whole time!

#33 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-05-22 01:54 PM | Reply

"Idiot Republicans have refused to allow greater numbers of educated foreign workers immigrate to the US.

Trump got lambasted by idiot Democrats for promoting a merit-based immigration system."

Come on JeffJ.

That's a desperate false equivalency.

Specifically, you're equating Republican actions with Democrat words.

#34 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-05-22 01:58 PM | Reply

"Idiot Republicans have attacked funding for universities on the basis of their liberal inclusive perspective.

Idiot Republicans have attacked funding for universities on the basis of their illiberal discriminatory perspective."

So what you're saying is Republicans are Campus Social Justice Warriors.

But they fight with money, not by promoting their philosophy of social justice.

Perhaps it's simpler than that:
Money is Republican social justice.

#35 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-05-22 02:01 PM | Reply

Google "Texas textbooks" and get back to us.

#32 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

The first two mainstream sources I found (WaPo and NY Books) both had paywalls.

I'll keep digging...

#36 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-05-22 02:13 PM | Reply

Next example I found was that starting the 2019-2020 school year Texas history textbooks would cite slavery as the primary reason for the Civil War.

Everything else I've found so far is focused on history textbooks, not science textbooks.

#37 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-05-22 02:16 PM | Reply

"Next example I found was that starting the 2019-2020 school year Texas history textbooks would cite slavery as the primary reason for the Civil War."

Meanwhile, you can't figure out that Texas will still be teaching racist lies until August.

#38 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-05-22 02:24 PM | Reply

Try googling "texas textbook misinformation".

You'll get a treasure trove of links.

#39 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-05-22 02:25 PM | Reply

US is 31st behind Slovenia, Chile and Costa Rica in longevity of it's citizens because of it's for profit health Care system. Japan is number one in the world because of it's health Care system and diet.

#40 | Posted by bayviking at 2019-05-23 10:04 AM | Reply

Idiot Republicans have done everything to ensure we coddle Christian views in our science textbooks
Can you provide an example?
Idiot Republicans have refused to promote minority students getting college educations.
It's idiot Democrats who are discriminating against over-achieving Asians.
Idiot Republicans have refused to allow greater numbers of educated foreign workers immigrate to the US.
Trump got lambasted by idiot Democrats for promoting a merit-based immigration system.
Idiot Republicans have attacked funding for universities on the basis of their liberal inclusive perspective.
Idiot Republicans have attacked funding for universities on the basis of their illiberal discriminatory perspective. FTFY

#28 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

1. Example of changing science textbooks: Creationism and putting stickers in books saying Evolution is just one theory among many.

2. Democrats are discriminating against over-achieving Asians? I'd love to see the logic behind that crazy one.

3. Trump got lambasted for trying to go merit based and essentially eliminating all other factors. Not for increasing the number of merit based immigration. Do you even read the details?

4. "Illiberal"? Jeff...that's pretty pathetic even for you.

If you have a cogent argument, type it. Don't just vomit on the keyboard and pretend you had something worth arguing.

I'm sorry, but its a fact that our problems in science education and science output are caused directly by Republican policies attacking basic science learning, attacking higher education, and refusing to allow educated foreigners into the United States. Your war on science has come back to cripple the nation. Welcome to Reality.

#41 | Posted by Sycophant at 2019-05-23 11:39 AM | Reply

Everything else I've found so far is focused on history textbooks, not science textbooks.

#37 | Posted by JeffJ

Jeff,

Just look up the intelligent design controversy.

The Texas textbooks debacle was part of that broader issue wherein Christian fundies have been advocating for "teach the controversy" in public schools, which is little more than a thinly veiled excuse to teach creationism in place of evolution.

#42 | Posted by jpw at 2019-05-23 01:34 PM | Reply

So. The only reason America was doing well scientifically, was because of the Chinese?

You're of the opinion Americans are stupid?

In some ways, yes American science does do really well because of foreign workers, mostly Chinese.

It's not an intelligence thing, it's a cost benefit thing.

Chinese students and, especially, postdocs work insanely long hours and never complain about pay.

They're cheap and work themselves nearly to death.

#43 | Posted by jpw at 2019-05-23 01:39 PM | Reply

Why is the Retort plastered with manscaping ads?
#17 | POSTED BY SHEEPLESCHISM

The ads are based on your own browsing habits, so...you tell us.

#44 | Posted by JOE at 2019-05-23 01:46 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

I'm sorry, but its a fact that our problems in science education and science output are caused directly by Republican policies attacking basic science learning, attacking higher education, and refusing to allow educated foreigners into the United States. Your war on science has come back to cripple the nation. Welcome to Reality.

#41 | Posted by Sycophant

At least in my field this is a minor contributor as there is an overabundance of trainees in the pipeline. There are far more graduate students and postdocs than there are positions in science for them to be gainfully employed in.

The bigger issue is federal funding is in a constant state of flux and what money there is is increasingly concentrated in the hands of senior investigators who run massive labs and control their fields via sprinkling their trainees in universities across the country.

Postdocs that do make it to faculty positions (only about 10% of total postdocs) have a high rate of turnover because they can't get funding due to the described problem above. Add to that the fact that a high impact paper is almost required for tenure and continued funding, which requires big $$$ to do large data experiments (or you have to get really lucky and find something really novel...but that almost requires big data/science).

And even IF you do build a story that's high impact you're fighting against a system that will eviscerate a paradigm shift from a junior investigator because it will threaten the funding of a bigwig while also being a system that will publish trash from a big name.

So basically, US science is falling because of stagnation. Young talent languishes and leaves because it's such an uphill climb to get money, to get enough compelling data (which requires money) to get money and then fulfill the absurd demand for high impact publication. It's a clusterf***.

#45 | Posted by jpw at 2019-05-23 01:51 PM | Reply

Just look up the intelligent design controversy...

#42 | POSTED BY JPW

I'll do that.

Thanks for helping me narrow my search.

#46 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-05-23 01:56 PM | Reply

#44

That is truly hilarious.

#47 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-23 01:59 PM | Reply

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