Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, May 13, 2019

Emilia Clarke and the ‘Game of Thrones' Creators Just Responded to That Major Dany Controversy "Ultimately, she is who she is, and that's a Targaryen."

Totally, totally. A woman is definitely prone to ending thousands of innocent lives just because her dad did the same, even though in the entire series, she's been insistent on not becoming that person.

That checks out! I'm just going to leave this here...

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"Warning! There are major spoilers ahead for last night's episode of Game of Thrones. Proceed with caution.

Basically, fans have been pissed at Thrones for playing into the "women are crazy" stereotype by making Dany's descent into madness so unrealistic/rushed/bad. Last night, it got even worse when Dany made the choice to kill thousands of innocent people during the battle."

The showrunners have gotten a bit plot sloppy racing to end this thing. It makes me think of the ending of the first True Detective series when the heroes came out both alive when the fans wanted more gore and at least one of them dead; methinks the powers that be wanted to face the prospect of a GoT with a happy-ish ending even less than they did one that seemingly ends on a very old and lazy and likely insulting stereotype about women.

#1 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-13 07:44 PM | Reply

The showrunners have gotten a bit plot sloppy racing to end this thing.

No kidding. They started last season when the Knight King basically huffed and puffed and blew the vaunted "Wall" down like it wasn't even there.

Then Arya basically did the same thing to the walking dead. Really?

At least the Battle of the Cleganes was pretty good. Always liked The Hound.

#2 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-05-13 08:11 PM | Reply

Arya vs Dany in the final episode!

#3 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2019-05-13 08:49 PM | Reply

Arya vs Dany in the final episode!

That would suck. She wiped out the zombie army... someone else should have some fun.

Her and Bronn (he's out there somewhere) would be interesting. Looks like Jamie is just going to bleed out so he'll be after Tyrion.

My cash is on Greyworm getting Cersi... he's still a bit ticked off.

#4 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-05-13 09:03 PM | Reply

'Basically, fans have been pissed at Thrones for playing into the "women are crazy" stereotype'

But women ARE crazy. ;-)

'The showrunners have gotten a bit plot sloppy racing to end this thing.'

Agree the pacing has been rushed and sloppy trying to wrap things up, but not on this. It's been tragically foreshadowed throughout the entire series.

#5 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-05-13 09:21 PM | Reply

Looks like Jamie is just going to bleed out so he'll be after Tyrion.

My cash is on Greyworm getting Cersi... he's still a bit ticked off.

#4 | POSTED BY REDIAL

But....

#6 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2019-05-13 09:27 PM | Reply

= It's been tragically foreshadowed

It's been somewhat inferred, but the Breaker of Chains and the Queen of Mercy who spent the entire series not being like her father only required lost love and a dead aide to go psycho scorned woman stereotype?

Bet it doesn't happen like that in the books, at least not as abruptly, if it happens like that at all.

And if they have Jon Snow forced to slip her the shiv as a mercy killing next week, that'll just be more misogyny.

Clegane Bowl was mega on the staircase with the dragon for background, the bro-sis lovers dying together was also a reprieve for them.

I suppose that in line with my comment about a True Detective-like turn with Arya not killing Cersie, nor becoming The Hound, it would have been too much to ax' for Dany not to turn full-out Mad Queen. Too much happy for the audience.

;
btw, George Martin shut down the rumor that he actually has finished the last two books.... surprising exactly no one. He said he made a deal not to publish until the show season ended, and that 6 isn't really finished and 7? Not even started. I read the first book when it was first published and waited I forget how many years along with a lot of others for one of the series.

ew.com

#7 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-13 10:03 PM | Reply

Clegane Bowl was mega on the staircase with the dragon for background, the bro-sis lovers dying together was also a reprieve for them.

Cersi just walking by The Hound knowing he wasn't going to touch her reminded me of a scene from Saving Private Ryan. The first laugh ever from Sandor was a hoot, once he realized he was never going to be able to kill his big brother... either because he was already dead or whatever that was about.

Are the Lannister twins actually dead? Or still in limbo?

#8 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-05-13 10:23 PM | Reply

"It's been somewhat inferred, but the Breaker of Chains and the Queen of Mercy who spent the entire series not being like her father only required lost love and a dead aide to go psycho scorned woman stereotype?"

It was a bit more than that. Every single person that she trusted was either dead or had betrayed her, or both. She knew that Cersei had not surrendered. When she heard the bells, she probably saw it as another betrayal by Tyrion to thwart her from doing what was necessary for a complete victory. After everything that had happened to her, she didn't want go through a protracted siege against the Red Keep, flanked by people she didn't trust and who could betray her at any time.

#9 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-05-13 10:24 PM | Reply

Aria will kill Dany.

And become the ruler of Westeros.

#10 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-05-13 10:25 PM | Reply

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Arya...

#11 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-05-13 10:27 PM | Reply

Arya died two seasons ago. The Waif got lost in the character she was impersonating and forgot what her mission was. Cue spinoff.

#12 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-05-13 10:31 PM | Reply

#9

As the article author, and many others have noted, although this was always a possibility, they could have had her stop at the bells, the Keep stormed, and Cersei captured; her forces has surrendered.

But no, it was much easier to stereotype her as "on the genetic gender rag", just to get it over with quicker.

"Totally, totally. A woman is definitely prone to ending thousands of innocent lives just because her dad did the same, even though in the entire series, she's been insistent on not becoming that person.

That checks out! I'm just going to leave this here..."

Couldn't have said it better... which is why I used the William Congreve ish quote in the title; it's from the 17th century.

www.dictionary.com

#13 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-13 10:34 PM | Reply

And become the ruler of Westeros.

Doubtful. Even more strange character arc.

My questions for the last episode:

What has Yara Greyjoy been up to?

Where is Bronn?

And, obviously, what is left of Jon's Dothraki/Unsullied army, and what's he going to do with it?

And another obvious follow up... did they pay Emilia Clark enough to do one more nude scene? (asking for Nulli)

#14 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-05-13 10:35 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

- Arya...

What happened with Gendry during the battle? Was he even there?

#15 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-13 10:36 PM | Reply

"The effects were stunning. But that prowess was in service of a story that was extremely obvious in some ways (Dany becoming the Mad Queen, something fans have predicted for ages) and absolutely illogical in others (Dany burning babies alive mere hours after professing that "mercy is our strength").

The Mad Queen thing in and of itself isn't shocking, nor is it a bad storytelling move. Almost every major plot development in this episode -- Dany razing King's Landing, Jaime and Cersei being crushed to death together, Sandor and Gregor falling to their doom -- could have made for an excellent penultimate installment.

What I take issue with is how clumsily Dany's transformation was portrayed -- and that clumsiness, at this late stage in the show, with the stakes so high, feels unforgivable given how avoidable it was."

www.theatlantic.com

#16 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-13 10:43 PM | Reply

That's what I wondered.

I guess he became the Lord of Storm's End. Decided to go there and check out the new pad?

There are theories bouncing around he ends up on the throne.

#17 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-05-13 10:44 PM | Reply

#17 I thought maybe Arya was riding off to find him after her revelation with the Hound... on the horse that Bran sent for her (i read that somewhere)

More on Dany....

"There was a point around midway through "The Bells" - when Daenerys heard the innocent people of King's Landing crying out in surrender and inexplicably chose to burn them all anyway - when I thought to myself, "do I hate Game of Thrones now?" (The short answer is no, but we'll get to that.)

But the decision seemed so unearned, so out of left-field, that I completely understand why Emilia Clarke said that Daenerys' final scenes of the series "f -- ed me up... Knowing that is going to be a lasting flavor in someone's mouth of what Daenerys is ... "

We still don't know how the show will choose to end her story in next week's finale, but it seems unlikely that there's any way of redeeming her now; she has become exactly the kind of monster she saw Cersei as.

And although there's something poetic about that trajectory on paper, in execution, it feels like a betrayal - not because it's impossible to imagine that Daenerys would lose her mind or any sense of perspective after suffering the immense loss and betrayal she's endured this season (the show has foreshadowed the possibility that she might follow in her father's footsteps since the beginning, so it's certainly not out of character for her), but because the writers have rushed that progression so clumsily over the past four episodes.

It feels like someone just randomly fell over and knocked into the big red "Mad Queen" button, turning Dany into an irrational psychopath in the last half of the penultimate episode just because the plot necessitated it for the final showdown."

more on this thesis

www.ign.com

#18 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-13 10:51 PM | Reply

GoTdam Episode 5 - Recap with Trae Crowder

Wherein "Dany gets to spend Mother's Day with her last child... burning down Kings Landing and killing innocent people".

www.youtube.com

#19 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-13 11:01 PM | Reply

--turning Dany into an irrational psychopath in the last half of the penultimate episode just because the plot necessitated it for the final showdown."

Hilarious. You kids watch goofy sword and sorcery fantasy filled with dragons and flying unicorns and god knows what else and then complain the ending isn't realistic. lol

Hahahaha

#20 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-05-13 11:17 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

To me, it will all come down to Valyrian steel swords, and who has them.

Jon has one. Brianne has one. Jaime has one. Sam Tarly had one but gave it to Jorah... not sure what happened to that.

Arya has a dagger.

#21 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-05-13 11:22 PM | Reply

Hahahaha

Nulli... if you ever get an opportunity to go ---- yourself, you should take it.

#22 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-05-13 11:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

" they could have had her stop at the bells, the Keep stormed, and Cersei captured; her forces has surrendered."

They were still far away from the Keep at the time bells rang. It was a while after Dany decided to press ahead and go for all-out destruction that they had even stormed the gates of the Red Keep.

#23 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-05-13 11:27 PM | Reply

#22, if there's time travel involved, I say be extra careful. It could cause a temporal paradox.

#24 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-05-13 11:35 PM | Reply

Brianne has one. Jaime has one.

If I remember correctly, Jamie gave his sword to Brianne.

#25 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-05-13 11:36 PM | Reply

-- It could cause a temporal paradox.

Maybe they could add another season and pretend this one was just a dream, like "Dallas" did many years ago.

#26 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-05-13 11:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If I remember correctly, Jamie gave his sword to Brianne.

He did, but he took Joffrey's when that punk finally died.

Tywin Lannister melted down Ned Stark's Valyrinan Greatsword and made one for each of his sons.

#27 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-05-13 11:47 PM | Reply


And although there's something poetic about that trajectory on paper, in execution, it feels like a betrayal - not because it's impossible to imagine that Daenerys would lose her mind or any sense of perspective after suffering the immense loss and betrayal she's endured this season (the show has foreshadowed the possibility that she might follow in her father's footsteps since the beginning, so it's certainly not out of character for her), but because the writers have rushed that progression so clumsily over the past four episodes.

It feels like someone just randomly fell over and knocked into the big red "Mad Queen" button, turning Dany into an irrational psychopath in the last half of the penultimate episode just because the plot necessitated it for the final showdown."


This is so self-contradictory. Anyone could see that she was unwell during the first half of this episode. She's been steadily deteriorating since she lost her first dragon, and was pushed over the edge when she lost her second. Not liking the pacing of the buildup could be a valid criticism, but describing it as "out of left field" and a "betrayal" sounds like whoever wrote this was in denial about where they knew the character was going all along and are just mad that the writers actually followed through on it.

#28 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-05-14 12:00 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Her character arc has been shadowing sociopathic dictator for several seasons now. This is the least surprising turn of events.

The NK being a silly mcguffin just to bleed her army which was then CGI'd back to strength is much sillier.

#29 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-05-14 06:58 AM | Reply

Tywin Lannister melted down Ned Stark's Valyrinan Greatsword and made one for each of his sons.

#27 | POSTED BY REDIAL AT 2019-05-13 11:47 PM | FLAG:

Yes, and Ned's swords were at the walls of Winterfell defending it when the NK arrived. Classy writing, well thought out.. good thing that entire arc didn't take place in this season alone.

#30 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-05-14 07:42 AM | Reply

A visual representation of the writing quality of Game of Thrones

#31 | Posted by qcp at 2019-05-14 09:07 AM | Reply

Dany Has Never Been A Hero

Daenerys Stormborn was turned into a hero basically by accident.

Every bit of mercy, charity or kindness that she's exhibited has happened as she marched towards achieving her imperialistic goals of conquering and ruling a far-off nation.

She believes wholeheartedly in her own right to rule a nation, purely because of her birth and desire.

As an audience, we need heroes in stories -- and I'm afraid to say that we basically projected all those qualities on to Daenarys. Every time she did something monstrous for the right reasons (she burned a LOT of people alive BEFORE Kings Landing, friends) we basically normalised it because we wanted it all to be worthwhile. We wanted it justified.

This show has never been about justice, and I think people are angry because they wanted it to be. If wishes were fishes, we'd all be Tullys!

more on this thesis

junkee.com

#32 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-05-14 10:59 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

- she was unwell during the first half of this episode.

Yes, when she was talking about mercy, right?

"In compressing these final two seasons (something that was entirely Benioff and Weiss' call and not HBO's, for what it's worth) we've lost that emotional underpinning in the race to get to the next big setpiece or plot twist, and without the books' internal monologues for POV characters, that insight is even more valuable - and more noticeable when it's missing.

But Benioff and Weiss seem to have purposefully kept the audience at a distance over the past two seasons in favor of pulling the rug out from under us, so that we would be just as surprised as Littlefinger when Arya and Sansa revealed that their conflict had been an elaborate ruse to trick him (and us).

In theory, a couple of small narrative misdirects can be satisfying, but when you have the writers insisting, "What really upsets Jon is that he's a blood relative to the woman he's in love with," while Jon keeps making out with her and has never once expressed that an ---------- relationship with his aunt bothers him aloud on screen, it feels less like clever plotting and more like narrative corner-cutting.

And that's how you get Daenerys insisting, "Mercy is our strength; our mercy towards future generations who will never again be held hostage by a tyrant," and then incinerating anyone who could feasibly create a future generation, because she's too busy being a tyrant."

www.ign.com

The showrunners compressing the story by 7 episodes made pacing more important than it usually would be.

In this case, Dany's turn to the dark side was trite and artificial; hell having no fury like a woman scorned werks maybe in the 17th century, or in rwing circles.

#33 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-14 12:35 PM | Reply

What happened with Gendry during the battle

I agree with Clownshack, he's probably been chillin in his new lands, enjoying the lord life.
While I was watching the episode I was wondering where Sansa was, and then realized them at she is similarly chillin' in Winterfell.

#34 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2019-05-14 12:56 PM | Reply

It's becoming more and more hilarious how "triggered" some people are by the ending of Game of Thrones. I don't believe for a second that most of these people wouldn't still have a problem with WHAT was written if the problems of the pacing of the last two seasons weren't there.

#35 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-05-14 12:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The queen of ashes was foreshadowed. The rape & pillage of king's landing was foreshadowed by Jorah speaking to Dany in season 1. People should really stop projecting their personal politics into the show, it just ends in hurt feelings.

#36 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-05-14 01:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#35

That's just you projecting. Mine nor any criticism I've read has been based on what happened, it has been based on the pretentious misdirection and lack of coherence of the way it was told. Had there been more episodes to lay out some progression of madness, few would be pointing it out.

But this came off as... well, as was said in the very first sentence of this thread:

"Basically, fans have been pissed at Thrones for playing into the "women are crazy" stereotype by making Dany's descent into madness so unrealistic/rushed/bad. Last night, it got even worse when Dany made the choice to kill thousands of innocent people during the battle."

Which pretty obviously has "triggered" some misogynistic defense mechanism in some people.

#37 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-14 01:14 PM | Reply

- The queen of ashes was foreshadowed.

Of course it was, duh. No one has said it was not. What they have said is, well, read #37.

Of course, to some people it's only natural that a woman would be the first to go to Level 5 in pique of being scorned.

And then there is what I mentions in #1 as the modern True Detective Syndrome.... a lot of people would have been truly pissed at anything other than a negative ending for Dany.

"The showrunners have gotten a bit plot sloppy racing to end this thing. It makes me think of the ending of the first True Detective series when the heroes came out both alive when the fans wanted more gore and at least one of them dead; methinks the powers that be wanted to face the prospect of a GoT with a happy-ish ending even less than they did one that seemingly ends on a very old and lazy and likely insulting stereotype about women."

#38 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-14 01:19 PM | Reply

"And that's how you get Daenerys insisting, "Mercy is our strength; our mercy towards future generations who will never again be held hostage by a tyrant," and then incinerating anyone who could feasibly create a future generation, because she's too busy being a tyrant."

This totally misses the point of what she was saying there. It was obvious to me (and many others) at the time that she was saying she was willing to sacrifice a huge chunk of the current generation for the benefit of future generations. This obviously went over the heads of people who didn't want to hear it, just like all the other times she displayed willingness to be completely ruthless and amoral only to be kept in check by her advisors. The Breaker of Chains finally broke her own chains, and followed Olenna's advice.

#39 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-05-14 01:20 PM | Reply

But at least we learned on thing from this thread.... that pompous ass Nulli is a "Dallas" fan, rofl!

#40 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-14 01:21 PM | Reply

#39

No one missed it, it was just not enough to justify her sudden transformation.... you know, like that sudden transformation was justified because, well, that's just how scorned women are, don't 'cha know.

#41 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-14 01:26 PM | Reply

There was a brief moment when I thought Dany was going to tell Jon to kill Sansa. For telling Tyrion about Jon being a Targaryen.

I feel like Vayrs was too smart to sit around waiting on his death.

#42 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-05-14 01:27 PM | Reply

""The showrunners have gotten a bit plot sloppy racing to end this thing."

Again, that's a completely separate issue from the complaint about the alleged "women are crazy" stereotype. The latter are hiding behind the former complaint to try to make it look like what their view is more valid and ubiquitous than it really is.

#43 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-05-14 01:28 PM | Reply

There is a segment of GoT fandom that won't be satisfied with any outcome that doesn't have a woman on the throne, surrounded by her lesbian harem and waited on by castrated eunuchs.

#44 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2019-05-14 01:32 PM | Reply

What's going to happen next?

Will Jon Snow kill Dany in a Romeo and Juliet tragedy scene, then abdicate and fly off North on the Last Dragon?

Will his men catch her like they did him with their knives?

Will Arya marry... Tyrion???

Does height matter?

Will Gendry and Grey Worm elope?

Will Sansa be Queen?

If so, will Sentinel be jealous?

#45 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-14 01:32 PM | Reply

#44

Me thinks we already discussed the rwing misogynist reaction.

#43

Yeah, you keep saying that and it keeps being ridiculous.

Were it not for the rushed pacing, the woman would not have appeared to be totally reacting to recent events; there would have been a progress to to the madness, not a pique of scorn.

#46 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-14 01:36 PM | Reply

--There is a segment of GoT fandom that won't be satisfied...

...without the porn.

#47 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-05-14 01:43 PM | Reply

#47

"Dallas" fan focused on porn, video at 11.

#48 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-14 01:50 PM | Reply

#46 I've watched 10 minutes of GoT, but I also watched feminists on social media go high warble as soon as their heroinnes looked remotely vulnerable. Personally, I'm rooting for a ending where Peter Falk closes up the book and says "Ahhh...it's just kissing from here on..."

#49 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2019-05-14 01:52 PM | Reply

"Were it not for the rushed pacing, the woman would not have appeared to be totally reacting to recent events; there would have been a progress to to the madness, not a pique of scorn."

Yeah, right, brah. I totally believe ya.

#50 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-05-14 01:59 PM | Reply

#44

The only males left in the show are: Jon, Brann, Sam, and Tyrion.

Jon shouldn't get the throne. He doesn't want it. He's not the smartest guy when it comes to strategy (how many wars did he almost lose only to be saved by someone else?), diplomacy (brilliant plan of losing a dragon to get proof for Cersei). He's too much like Ned. And if season 1 made anything clear, Ned was to idealistic and honor bound for that world.

Brann is the three eyed raven and a good substitute for professor Xavier. But he's a bit autistic. Also. Why isn't he warging into the dragons yet?

Sam would be a long shot. But I think he'd actually be a good ruler.

Tyrion, I doubt it. There's always the rumor he's also half Targaryen. I'm not sure if it's a revelation they'd save for the final episode. But I doubt his arch develops further. I'm still not sure why Cersei didn't kill him at the gates of King's Landing in episode 4.

What of the remaining girls? Sansa Arya and Dany? (There's Brianne, but she's not getting the throne. And what ever happened to Yara? She still at the iron islands?)

Dany is now the villain. Her last remaining role is to either die, or perhaps end the series with her on the throne. I'm betting on the former.

Sansa should remain the queen on Winterfell, or what ever her title is. It would be a long shot for her to end up as Queen of Westeros.

Arya killed the night king. Is she the legendary Azor Ahai? She did kill the night king. But her arc doesn't really feel like it leads to the throne. Maybe?

Other mentions, Robin Arryn, what happened to him? Gendry, he's now the recognized son of Robert Baratheon, perhaps the throne returns to him?

#51 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-05-14 01:59 PM | Reply

- I've watched 10 minutes of GoT

Cool, an expert!

#50

White flag.

#52 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-14 02:05 PM | Reply

- He's not the smartest guy when it comes to strategy

Ya think? He's bumbled and stumbled his way through 8 seasons, but he's obviously the better choice to rule the 7 Kingdoms because.... he's a guy.

You never know when a woman might feel scorned and burn the city down.

#53 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-14 02:08 PM | Reply

#51, you forgot the most obvious choice: Hot Pie.

#54 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-05-14 02:19 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

The showrunners have gotten a bit plot sloppy racing to end this thing.

#38 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2019-05-14 01:19 PM | REPLY

The reactions to it all are funny. It doesn't matter if it took 10 episodes to play out, the end result was the same. Dragon Hitler.

The showrunners are leaving for Star Wars. A lot of people are really going to hate what they produce there too.

#55 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-05-14 02:33 PM | Reply

and Dragon Hitler has been foreshadowed repeatedly since season 1 so I'm not sure what the hell people were expecting? A wise dictator with a sentient super weapon?

#56 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-05-14 02:34 PM | Reply

Just because she's a woman? That's sexist.

#57 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-05-14 02:35 PM | Reply

Westworld can't come back soon enough.

#58 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-05-14 02:35 PM | Reply

--You never know when a woman might feel scorned and burn the city down.

In other words, a feminist.

#59 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-05-14 02:38 PM | Reply

- That's sexist.

Would be not fully cooking the plot development of genetic madness and making seem more like a typical thing a scorned woman might do.... because you are running off to Star Wars.

"The problem is, as a plot development in a larger story, it seems badly undercooked. Sure, you can (rightly) argue that the basis for Dany's growth into the Mad Queen has been in clear development since the first season. But she was broadly herself -- vengeful and dangerous, yeah, but also human, in possession of a conscience, and still largely animated by her sense of a mission to make the world better and more just for common people -- as recently as like two episodes ago.

The show seems to be offering as the immediate triggers for her all-at-once descent into total genocidal madness a set of hardships -- Rhaegal's death; Jorah Mormont's death; Missandei's execution; literally all of her advisers being untrustworthy morons and/or traitors; Jon Snow rejecting her as a lover; and the dislocation of identity caused by leaving a continent whose common people loved her as a liberator for one whose people (in absentia; Game of Thrones essentially deleted the broader Seven Kingdoms from the story the moment Olenna Tyrell died) view her as a frightening invasive force -- that don't satisfy as the narrative framework for a plausible character with Dany's traits to make the sudden conscious decision, "What the hell, might as well spend an afternoon murdering innocent women and children by the hundreds of thousands."

theconcourse.deadspin.com

#60 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-14 02:43 PM | Reply

- In other words, a feminist.

What a Misogynist Might Say for $500, Alex.

Or a "Dallas" porn fan, one supposes.

#61 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-14 02:45 PM | Reply

Okay. Seriously. How can Jon Snow really NOT end up on the throne. It has been the arc of the entire 8 seasons. Anything else would be as disjointed as the ending to Lost or The Sopranos. Nobody who plays the Game Of Thrones can win. It is only the person not playing the game to begin with who ultimately has any real chance.

#62 | Posted by moder8 at 2019-05-14 02:48 PM | Reply

"Okay. So. Stay with me, here. Two (but not all) of this season's hardest-to-swallow moments related to the war for the Iron Throne have been:

Dany, at what she could have taken as her moment of triumph, or even as the moment to get angry revenge on Cersei by flying straight to the defenseless Red Keep and melting it with dragon fire, seeming to make the deliberate choice to slaughter hundreds of thousands of unarmed commoners.

Again: I liked this episode and I think having Dany ultimately fall into villainy is actually a cool and good story development! But in the moment, it felt like the show left vast dramatic potential on the table by failing to set this up in a way that made her choice appear both awful and unforgivable and also legible and rooted in her character, rather than a sudden snap into total madness explained as "Uh, Jon Snow rejected her and her Targaryen Insanity Gene just activated right then I guess."

A better way to do it, that avoided both of those, would have gone like this:"

theconcourse.deadspin.com

#63 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-14 02:55 PM | Reply

- How can Jon Snow really NOT end up on the throne.

In the typical story he would be, and he might still be here given the showrunners hurry just to get this over with, plotting and pacing be damned.

But Jon has never wanted to be King, as you said, and not out of humility, I think, but more out of self-knowledge; he knows he would not be very good at it, much like he has never been a good general or a prudent thinker.

He has shown some leadership, but wisdom doesn't seem to be his bally-wick either. Sansa, otoh, might well be a successful ruler. Just a thought, I have no idea what they'll do.

#64 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-14 03:09 PM | Reply

Easy. Murder somebody.

#65 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-05-14 03:20 PM | Reply

Like somebody who would burn your home and your family because they won't bend the knee.

#66 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-05-14 03:20 PM | Reply

I feel like Vayrs was too smart to sit around waiting on his death.
#42 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

He didn't.

If you notice, he was writing letters to someone, who knows who. He ended up not finishing the last one but he had a pile of letters acknowledging the reality of Jon's lineage. Not sure if they were sent out, but he wasn't just sitting around.

#67 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-05-14 03:39 PM | Reply

It is only the person not playing the game to begin with who ultimately has any real chance.
#62 | POSTED BY MODER8

We waited 15 years for winter to come. It came and went within one episode.

#68 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-05-14 03:44 PM | Reply

#67 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11 AT 2019-05-14 03:39 PM | REPLY

He was using the little girl to try and poison Dany, but she wasn't eating. That part of the plot was recycled from the series Rome which has many employees in common with GoT.

#69 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-05-14 04:54 PM | Reply

#69 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

Who do you suppose he was writing to?

#70 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-05-14 05:49 PM | Reply

I think he was writing to either Jon/Sansa or Gendry - lineages of two of the Old Westeros rulers.

#71 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2019-05-14 06:08 PM | Reply

Perhaps the new prince of Dorne.

#72 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-05-14 06:12 PM | Reply

I think he was writing to either Jon/Sansa or Gendry - lineages of two of the Old Westeros rulers.

#71 | POSTED BY GONOLES92 AT 2019-05-14 06:08 PM | FLAG:

Perhaps the new prince of Dorne.

#72 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

I didn't think of either of those. Good points.

#73 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-05-14 06:28 PM | Reply

The only males left in the show are: Jon, Brann, Sam, and Tyrion.

Don't forget Bronn... he's out there somewhere with Joffre's crossbow. And Greyworm, who owns most of Jon's existing army.

#74 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-05-14 08:45 PM | Reply

"but he's obviously the better choice to rule the 7 Kingdoms because.... he's a guy.
#53 | POSTED BY CORKY"

True. Rulers should be good at math.

#75 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-05-14 09:41 PM | Reply

A Military Strategic on Why Danaerys' Scorched-Earth Policy May Not Be So Mad After All

"To appreciate what happened to King's Landing, we need to move beyond the tactical and operational levels and think strategically...

"Political considerations necessarily infuse strategic calculations. For Queen Daenerys Targaryen, seizure of King's Landing and the deposition of the usurper Cersei no longer cuts it. Aegon Targaryen (Jon Snow) has a better claim to the throne; he has a base of operations, a narrative of legitimacy, and his own army. Even if Jon doesn't want to be King, people who dislike Daenerys will fight in his name. Dany is no longer the presumptive Targaryen heir and can no longer rely on her family's right to the throne.

"She can rely on Drogon, however. Her claim to the throne rests on demonstrating the power of her dragon. With Rhaegal -- the dragon Jon had ridden -- dead, she is uniquely capable of making such a claim. Daenerys need not be "mad" in order to see political value in burning King's Landing to the ground. We impute a desire to burn things to hereditary mental instability in the Targaryens, but rational political calculation can lead her (and perhaps her Targaryen forebears) to the same conclusions. ...the destruction of King's Landing represents a message of commitment on the part of Daenerys Targaryen to the Seven Kingdoms. It also represents her political maturation insofar as she is willing to do to King's Landing what she could not imagine doing to the slaver-cities of Astapor and Yunkai."


slate.com

#76 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-05-14 10:22 PM | Reply

"#76 | POSTED BY SENTINEL"

Where all of this kinda falls flat with me - and I have only watched the show and not read the books - is this re-writing of history to Dany having this singular passion of sitting on the Iron Throne. Are we just supposed to forget that it was her brother that was supposed to be King? That Dany was traded to be - at best - a horse queen? And she accepted that fate? I know the passing of time is off in the show, but at most she had this dream from what - age 18, so 10-15 years tops? It was never meant to be her so giving her this single minded passion now seems forced.

#77 | Posted by iragoldberg at 2019-05-14 10:30 PM | Reply

"He was using the little girl to try and poison Dany, but she wasn't eating."

Excellent point. I didn't even notice that. It seemed like Dany was grieving over Misandei's and Rhaegal's deaths, but was probably (rightly) paranoid about being poisoned too.

#78 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-05-14 10:54 PM | Reply

Who do you suppose he was writing to?

#70 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11 AT 2019-05-14 05:49 PM | FLAG:

I don't believe it was even written out in the script. Mcguffin mcguffin. Sit here, get bad news from the kid, look in despair when you hear guard footsteps coming.

#79 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-05-15 07:55 AM | Reply

Dany wasn't eating, lost her best friends, betrayed by Varys, feels betrayed by Jon for telling Sansa who betrayed him by sharing the secret to Tyrion.

Tyrion, she feels he betrayed her by sharing Sansa's disclosure to Varys and Jaime was seen going through the lines to Cersei. Tyrion vouched for him, so he failed...again. Tyrion is now one away from dying.

Burning the innocents...why? They already won...but how soon would that surrender be? Reminds me of Hiroshima & Nagasaki. The war was over, why do this? Because it guarantees surrender from anyone in the populace.

Dany life experiences molded her belief. Those beliefs changed with events. She really is like US politicians who cant remember their positions because they change when it is beneficial.

Prediction: Sansa Queen rules from the North, Tyrion is her husband, ruled as the Hand...he's quite good at it. Jon lives beyond the wall. Arya moves to Bravos.

Varys last written letter we dont see. He burns one, but there is one paper remaining...with his rings.

#80 | Posted by Petrous at 2019-05-15 12:43 PM | Reply

#75

Odd how rwing misogynists these days are proud that they are.

.

Perhaps if Dany dies, as it seems she must, it will be Tyrion who does the deed. After all, his brother was the Kingslayer, perhaps he'll be the Queenslayer. Varys, as it turns out was right, and Tyrion squealing on him cost his life.

And maybe since Arya learned she didn't want to end up being like the Hound, she is riding back to Gendry. That might be the only story line to dare a happy ending.

#81 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-15 01:51 PM | Reply

Jon, in the throneroom, knife to the back Kingslayer style. Bran on the throne.

Claimed those endings as soon as my friends betting pool opened.

#82 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-05-15 01:56 PM | Reply

rather, sword to the back. they'll nitpick the details.

#83 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-05-15 01:56 PM | Reply

"Perhaps if Dany dies, as it seems she must,"

It's interesting how almost everyone is assuming this.

#84 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-05-15 02:53 PM | Reply

Spoilers on the 3 filmed endings have been out for over a month. People just aren't sure which one will be used or how they'll be cut together.

#85 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-05-15 02:59 PM | Reply

"Are we just supposed to forget that it was her brother that was supposed to be King? That Dany was traded to be - at best - a horse queen? And she accepted that fate?"

Um, what? That was resolved back on season one, when she realized that her brother wasn't a 'dragon', but she was.

#86 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-05-15 03:00 PM | Reply

There are some interesting ideas out there... Arya is already dead being one of them; the white horse she rode off on being the same dead horse that belonged to the Capt of the Gold Company.

Also, that there is a way that Dany could semi-redeem herself... the Dead are not quite done and return, her and Drogon the Dragon stop them.

#87 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-15 03:03 PM | Reply

Arya is already dead being one of them; the white horse she rode off on being the same dead horse that belonged to the Capt of the Gold Company.

Wouldn't that be an indication that we saw into the afterlife? If so, wouldn't that be the first time the show allowed us to do that? Hence, wouldn't it be prudent to think said possibility is not probable?

#88 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-05-15 03:41 PM | Reply

www.youtube.com

#89 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-15 04:35 PM | Reply

Game of Thrones is trash TV and we need to stop pretending otherwise

OPINION: Think Game of Thrones is high art, prestige TV? Think again -- it's trashier than the worst of reality television, and we're all wallowing in it.

www.news.com.au

#90 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-05-15 04:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

and we're all wallowing in it.

To the point we voluntarily hang out on threads about it on internet forums just to whine.

#91 | Posted by REDIAL at 2019-05-15 06:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Nulli brought his love and admiration for the tv series "Dallas" and porn to the thread, so there's that.

#92 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-15 07:49 PM | Reply

lol. Corkus Minimus is such an incorrigible liar. I mentioned Dallas only as an example of a tv series self-destructing and turning off fans.

#93 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-05-15 07:57 PM | Reply

Robin Arryn will be King and Dany will fly through the moon door.

In the meantime, he will ask Tyrion to finish the story of the honeycomb.

#94 | Posted by Petrous at 2019-05-15 08:26 PM | Reply

- Maybe they could add another season and pretend this one was just a dream, like "Dallas" did many years ago.

#26 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Speaking of incorrigible liars.... you know more about "Dallas" than you do sociology... oh, wait, I guess that's not saying a lot, is it.

#95 | Posted by Corky at 2019-05-15 11:48 PM | Reply

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