Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, April 17, 2019

Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg oversaw plans to consolidate the social network's power and control competitors by treating its users' data as a bargaining chip, while publicly proclaiming to be protecting that data, according to about 4,000 pages of leaked company documents largely spanning 2011 to 2015 and obtained by NBC News.

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To my eyes, this is really, really bad.

Is there any sort of legal liability for doing these egregious acts?

#1 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-04-16 02:13 PM | Reply

#1 I doubt it.

Congress should act, like Europe has, to give us some say in how our data is used by corporations.

Fat chance of that happening before 2020.

#2 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-04-16 02:17 PM | Reply


Mark Zuckerberg Called People Who Handed Over Their Data "Dumb F****"
www.esquire.com

...Now it appears an IM exchange Mark had with a college friend back in 2004, might have been telling of things to come as he expressed disbelief that so many people would willingly hand over their information.

As reported by Business Insider, the conversation according to SAI sources, went as follows.

Zuck: Yeah so if you ever need info about anyone at Harvard

Zuck: Just ask.

Zuck: I have over 4,000 emails, pictures, addresses, SNS

[Redacted Friend's Name]: What? How'd you manage that one?

Zuck: People just submitted it.

Zuck: I don't know why.

Zuck: They "trust me"

Zuck: Dumb f**ks.

Sure, this was 19-year-old Mark Zuckerberg, not long after he had launched Facebook from the comfort of his own dorm room.

He might have just been bragging to his friend, he wasn't to know the data treasure trove Facebook would become 14 years later with 2.2 billion users.

Back then he wasn't the sixth richest person in the world, with a net worth of $70 billion.

He was just some student probably sitting in his pants IM'ing. ...


#3 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-04-16 02:36 PM | Reply

Who DIDN'T KNOW THIS? Christ, we told everyone on the DR this after the Cambridge Analytica story broke. Barack Obama BRAGGED about being a beneficiary of Zuckerberg's data in 2012!

reason.com

#4 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2019-04-16 03:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

to give us some say in how our data is used by corporations.

#2 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2019-04-16 02:17 PM | FLAG:

You have a say. Don't use the services.

#5 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-04-17 08:33 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2


@#5 ... You have a say. Don't use the services. ...

That is a common misconception.


This is how Facebook collects data on you even if you don't have an account
www.recode.net

...One of the more interesting takeaways to come out of Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg's multi-day congressional testimony last week was confirmation that the social giant collects data from people online even if they don't have a Facebook account.

Also interesting: There's no way to avoid it. ...


If you read the section of the article about Facebook asking (and usually receiving) for your contact info from your friends who happen to be users of Facebook, keep in mind that your cell phone number is used a lot like a Social Security number nowadays. Your cell phone number doesn't change for long periods of time, if at all, making it good for ID purposes.

#6 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-04-17 09:43 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

They're collecting information you willingly gave away to begin with. That's not an invasion of privacy nor something worth regulating.

#7 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-04-17 10:02 AM | Reply


@#7 ... you willingly gave away ...

That is not a correct statement.

I did not give Facebook permission to take my data.

I don't think data theft should be regulated, I think it should be illegal.

#8 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-04-17 10:07 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You gave it to somebody else. Did you sign a contract with them saying they could not give it away? No. Facebook didn't steal anything. You gave your information to somebody who gave it away to a third party.

#9 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-04-17 10:13 AM | Reply

They're collecting information you willingly gave away to begin with. That's not an invasion of privacy nor something worth regulating.

#7 | Posted by sitzkrieg

WHen did the republican party become the anti freedom party? Privacy is freedom.

#10 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-04-17 11:23 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

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@#9 ... You gave it to somebody else. ...

I gave it to no one else.


... Did you sign a contract with them saying they could not give it away?

More important, I did not sign a contract saying they could give it away.


... Facebook didn't steal anything. You gave your information to somebody who gave it away to a third party. ...

Ah, I see the source of your confusion.

I'm not talking about the contact info that my friends give Facebook.

I am talking about the data collection that Facebook does on websites from people who do not have Facebook accounts. People like you.


#11 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-04-17 11:25 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I am talking about the data collection that Facebook does on websites from people who do not have Facebook accounts. People like you.

#11 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER AT 2019-04-17 11:25 AM | FLAG:

What's confusing is trying to follow your goal posts. First they were stealing from you. Now they're stealing from me?

No. First example, you give away your data. The only thing that matters is if you had the party you gave it to sign a Non Disclosure. You did not. Moving on.

Now they're stealing from me... but your example is they're scraping and buying data. That's not theft. It's not even an original idea to them.

#12 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-04-17 11:40 AM | Reply


@#12 ... What's confusing is trying to follow your goal posts. First they were stealing from you. Now they're stealing from me? ...

OK, let's then back up.

The reason I mention the "contact data from friends" was because of the cell phone number becoming a lot like a Social Security number nowadays. Everybody wants it as an identifier.

However, the rest of that recode.com article also talks about Facebook's data collection from web browsing. That is the part I speak of when I mention data theft.

Better?

... Now they're stealing from me... but your example is they're scraping and buying data.

Not really scraping. You are visiting the facebook servers, whether you know it or not. If you see that little blue "f" in a corner of a web page, most of the times that I've checked, that image is loaded from a facebook server.

Facebook knows the site that referred you to their servers via that image. Facebook may even have a deal with the site to turn over info the site knows about you. Even if you do not know that facebook is collecting your data. Even if you are not a facebook member.

I note that when I first brought this up, you stated "You have a say. Don't use the services."

Well, even if you do not use the facebook services, facebook is still collecting and selling your data, You do not have a say about that.

#13 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-04-17 11:51 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So far, the article hasn't highlighted anything he did wrong with personal data. If the government thinks this behavior is bad, it's time they finally get serious about it. But they aren't. They are like HIPAA, they only care about private data when it has already been exposed. If people think sharing data is so bad, they need to show more outrage than they do when someone uses a bathroom they feel like using, or any of the other craptastic social issues that mean little when compared to actual problems we face. But instead, society just blows up over trivial crap and this kind of stuff only gets discussed when something big happens that makes the news, like the Target data breach. The EU, as bad as the GDPR is to businesses, at least took action and moved the ball forward.

This article is just click bait so the outlet gets more money. Wake me when society actually finds this behavior concerning enough where something is done about it.

#14 | Posted by humtake at 2019-04-17 12:01 PM | Reply

Access logs! Holy ---- that's so evil!

You are using an example where you know facebook is logging data, to say people don't know when facebook is logging data.

...I can't do this.

#15 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-04-17 12:01 PM | Reply

#14 I don't recall, so I'll ask. Were you among those "outraged" when Cambridge Analytica provided FB data to the Trump campaign?

#16 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2019-04-17 12:08 PM | Reply


@#15 ... You are using an example where you know facebook is logging data, to say people don't know when facebook is logging data. ...

You are the person who said the data collection by Facebook was OK, because you didn't use Facebook.

When I showed you that Facebook collected data even though you don't use Facebook, you bow out of the conversation.

That I know facebook is collecting data of non-users of Facebook does not mean that everyone knows that.


btw, if you think that all facebook is doing is logging the loading of the image from their server, your comment indicates you may be even more naive about this than your #5 comment indicated. But that's OK, because you're not a facebook user. :)

#17 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-04-17 12:19 PM | Reply

I said it wasn't theft. It's not. I never even said I did not use Facebook. No example you have offered at any point is theft. You failed understanding of basic non-disclosure when the conversation started to begin with.

Here's something funny, sad, and tangentially related. I released an app on Google Play recently. I was required to create a Privacy Policy as part of the publishing agreement. No users have ever read it. They don't know what I'm retaining.

#18 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-04-17 12:24 PM | Reply

Have to add, it was never checked by Google either. It's just a linked PDF. They don't know what's in it.

#19 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-04-17 12:36 PM | Reply


@#18 ... They don't know what I'm retaining. ...

Yup. The problem for the user is the courts have said the Privacy Policy, and EULA that is also usually not read, are legally binding. I've read of many people who are quite surprised of what they have agreed to.

So, do you agree that Facebook is collecting data of people who do not use facebook? That your solution, (#5 - "You have a say. Don't use the services.") to having a say in how corporations use our data, won't work with facebook? (that's all I was trying to point out previously)

:)

#20 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-04-17 12:53 PM | Reply

#15 | Posted by sitzkrieg

For some reason I thought you were in IT. Anyhow you shouldn't be so naive. Run Ghostery as a plugin and see what they are tracking on you. I don't work in Web Marketing and Data Gathering anymore but you need to know it is FAR more than freaking access logs. Every site has trackers that people have built collection gathering and information delivering tools behind. Even some of you less sophisticated sites are gathering information and tracking your interests. They are not only using it for their purposes in delivering a quality experience to you but typically they ARE selling the data they have collected or the service they are using is doing it. Smaller site owners often form groups to leverage the information they have to generate revenue streams - i.e. bump up the pay they get on ads.

The Facebook sign in, Google sign in, etc are other ways to track more about you IF you have signed up with them and opted to allow them to track you. Is someone ONLY uses those methods of sign in I will never buy from them and there are sites I have stumbled on that are setup that way. Those companies are trying to maximize their revenue on your purchase.

I mean do you use Chrome? Safari? IE/Edge? You are being tracked by the software creator. Chrome in particular.

The information in commercial databases dwarfs what the government has on you. As Lamp suggested Cell phone numbers are increasingly used because they are VERY good at tracking people today. Not many people change cell numbers not to mention all the time. With portability for carriers and geographic "independence" of cell numbers there is no reason to change a number all the time unless you don't pay your bill or have a dispute with the carrier. I have had my number for 18 years.

Lamplighter is ABSOLUTELY correct in that people should have a right to control the collected information about them and even if you don't use the internet at all that information is being collected and passed around and stitched together by 3rd parties. The EU law that went into effect last year was a disrupter. But people will still opt in because you can't use a site without allowing them to track you.

As far as that goes - look at people giving away their DNA now to "learn about themselves". STUPID. Especially given they are not reporting to you accurately what superficial knowledge people are looking for.

#21 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2019-04-17 01:12 PM | Reply

Wake me when society actually finds this behavior concerning enough where something is done about it.

#14 | Posted by humtake

Society does find this behavior concerning. Government does not because government is controlled by business. Your party loves it that way though.

#22 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-04-17 01:15 PM | Reply

So, do you agree that Facebook is collecting data of people who do not use facebook? That your solution, (#5 - "You have a say. Don't use the services.") to having a say in how corporations use our data, won't work with facebook? (that's all I was trying to point out previously)
:)
#20 | POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER AT 2019-04-17 12:53 PM | REPLY

Of course they are. They're a data business. There's only 1 person that can stop you from putting your data out into the world. That's you. Regulation will only enshrine Facebook's business practices, which is why Zuckerberg has set his lobbyists to the task. This is very, very much a be careful what you wish for moment.

#23 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-04-17 01:16 PM | Reply

Of course they are. They're a data business. There's only 1 person that can stop you from putting your data out into the world. That's you. Regulation will only enshrine Facebook's business practices, which is why Zuckerberg has set his lobbyists to the task. This is very, very much a be careful what you wish for moment.

#23 | Posted by sitzkrieg

In this day and age, staying off of the internet means separating yourself from society, information, and opportunity. That is not a reasonable requirement to maintain privacy. Government needs to step and and write some rules for this new world that the founders could not have forseen.

#24 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-04-17 01:22 PM | Reply

For some reason I thought you were in IT. Anyhow you shouldn't be so naive.

#21 | POSTED BY GALAXIEPETE AT 2019-04-17 01:12 PM | FLAG:

I code sometimes. I brought IP voice comms into a certain kind of game. If they read the EULA, the users would know that their voice chat is shoved off to the watson sdk for text to speech, language translation, and psychological profiling. The reported scroll rate through the EULA say they don't read it.

#25 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-04-17 01:32 PM | Reply


@#23 ... Of course they are. They're a data business. ...

Yup. A sleezy data business, imo, but a data business.


... This is very, very much a be careful what you wish for moment. ...

Very true.

So long as big business owns our government, I do not expect to see a change anytime soon.


#26 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-04-17 01:39 PM | Reply

download ublock origin for your browser, then copy+paste the code found in the following link into your ublock rules:
www.reddit.com

this will stop fakebook from pulling any info about your browser's fingerprint, your ip/physical location, etc., everywhere except on fb itself.

#27 | Posted by berserkone at 2019-04-18 09:07 AM | Reply

ALso consider downloading brave browser or waterfox (a fork of firefox), both of which are more privacy-oriented browsers than, say, chrome (lol), edge/IE, or safari.

#28 | Posted by berserkone at 2019-04-18 09:10 AM | Reply

here's one for ublock and google analytics as well
www.reddit.com

#29 | Posted by berserkone at 2019-04-18 09:12 AM | Reply

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