Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, March 11, 2019

Venezuela's worst power and communications outage on Friday deepened a sense of isolation and decay, endangering hospital patients, forcing schools and businesses to close and cutting people off from their families, friends and the outside world.

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We don't need no stinking power, Yanqui swine!!!

-Maduro and his fellow criminals

#1 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-03-09 06:28 PM | Reply

Late-stage socialism...

The last person leaving Venezuela won't have to turn out the lights...

#2 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-03-09 06:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

This is the result of ego driven corrupt government.

#3 | Posted by bored at 2019-03-09 06:49 PM | Reply

Let's send our DR Socialists to Venezuela to save the day. Surely they are smart enough to make Socialism work there. What a statement it would make if they stopped the decline and revived it while it circled the bowl. Then we would all know that smart people can make Socialism work.
I'll chip in $100 for their air fare, one way.

#4 | Posted by sunuvavitch at 2019-03-09 07:35 PM | Reply

#4, your broke ass should keep your $100.

The people whose boots you lick wipe their ass with $100 dollar bills.

One thing, my lady, that is worse then being subject to US domestic policy is being subject to US foreign policy.

I read an article the other day, I can't remember which country it was from, but it was in Spanish so none of you dip ----- who only speak American and are into CIA coups would have been able to read it anyway.

It detailed a meeting between Mike "Norman Bates" Pence and Juan Guaidó. Apparently Guaidó said that half or over half of the military would support him. I guess when he said half he meant about 12 guys.

#5 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2019-03-10 06:24 AM | Reply

'your broke ass should keep your $100.'

You have no clue as to my finances.

'people whose boots you lick wipe their ass with $100 dollar bills.'

My friends can wipe their ass with $100s, but they don't.

'I read an article the other day it was in Spanish'

Good, then you'll have no trouble assimilating in Venezuela. Which airport do you prefer?

#6 | Posted by sunuvavitch at 2019-03-10 11:18 AM | Reply

This is the result of ego driven corrupt government.

#3 | POSTED BY BORED

It's how socialism always turns out. Eventually someone is in charge that isn't benevolent.

#7 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-03-10 12:33 PM | Reply

It's how all governments turn out when the corrupt and incompetent gain power.

#8 | Posted by bored at 2019-03-10 12:41 PM | Reply

Look up the words "nomenklatura" and "apparatchik." When you give Party members control of the means of production the possibilities for corruption and theft is unlimited.

#9 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-03-10 12:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"It's how all governments turn out when the corrupt and incompetent gain power."

Russia spent billions to build influence in Venezuela. Now it faces a bet gone bad.
www.washingtonpost.com

Venezuela moving oil company office to Russia
www.upi.com

#10 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-03-10 12:52 PM | Reply

"It's how socialism always turns out. Eventually someone is in charge that isn't benevolent."

It's how capitalism turns out too.

#11 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-03-10 01:03 PM | Reply

Good, then you'll have no trouble assimilating in Venezuela. Which airport do you prefer?
#6 | POSTED BY SUNUVAVITCH

It costs about $100 to park a car at an airport.

You'd know that if you had a pot to piss in.

#12 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2019-03-10 01:14 PM | Reply

"It's how socialism always turns out. Eventually someone is in charge that isn't benevolent."

You support the President Trump because he hurts the people who need to be hurt.

How benevolent you are, Andrea, a mattress!

#13 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-10 01:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It's how all governments turn out when the corrupt and incompetent gain power.
#8 | POSTED BY BORED

Only when the government is the central authority and has too much power, how can you not see that.

It's how capitalism turns out too.

#11 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY

Not true, when individuals own their labor, collapses due to government ineptitude, and egos don't happen.

The larger the systems the greater the fall.

You support the President Trump because he hurts the people who need to be hurt.

They do? How so?

#14 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-03-10 01:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Only when the government is the central authority and has too much power, how can you not see that."

You live in California.

You know about the Bakersfield ritual satanic sexual abuse allegations that the Kern County DA fabricated.

How can you not see the corruption when it happens at the local level?

#15 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-10 01:38 PM | Reply

This is the result of ego driven corrupt government.
#3 | POSTED BY BORED
It's how socialism always turns out. Eventually someone is in charge that isn't benevolent.
#7 | Posted by AndreaMackris
It's how capitalism turns out too.
#11 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday
Not true, when individuals own their labor, collapses due to government ineptitude, and egos don't happen.
The larger the systems the greater the fall.
#14 | Posted by AndreaMackris

When corrupt, crony, corporate capitalism takes over the government, egos and greed do happen, and individuals owning their own labor is a meaningless, talking point.

#16 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-03-10 01:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#12 MRSILAGEDUDE

If you'd payed attention, you'd have noticed I said, 'I'll chip in'. I'm sure others here would too.
And I said one way. You might rethink that car parking thing and take an Uber. But then, maybe you're smart enough to save Venezuela in a week?

#17 | Posted by sunuvavitch at 2019-03-10 02:30 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

You might rethink that car parking thing and take an Uber. But then, maybe you're smart enough to save Venezuela in a week?

#17 | POSTED BY SUNUVAVITCH A

Wouldn't pay for Uber either, not from where I live, ya broke ass.

So how many more bootlickers are chipping in?

Oh....

It's just you?

You don't have a friend in the world, do you?

Sad.

I did go to Venezuela once upon a time. The coaches for their international team were world class. Didn't see one person eating from a dumpster there.

Saw 2 within 15 minutes of LaGuardia when I got back though.

USA!

#18 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2019-03-10 03:45 PM | Reply

Internet Collapses in Venezuela with 80% Offline; Twitter, YouTube, SoundCloud Blocked

#19 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-03-10 07:45 PM | Reply

Let's send our DR Socialists to Venezuela to save the day. Surely they are smart enough to make Socialism work there.

Socialism doesn't exist in Venezuela.

If it did. It's citizens would be a lot happier.

#20 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-03-10 07:52 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

Internet Collapses in Venezuela with 80% Offline; Twitter, YouTube, SoundCloud Blocked

The actions of a totalitarian regime.

#21 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-03-10 07:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Look here.

If socialism caused widespread poverty and starvation Reagan would have flooded the inner cities of the US with it, you ------- nitwits.

#22 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2019-03-10 08:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#22 | POSTED BY MRSILENCEDOGOOD

Democrats beat him to it, with their war on poverty.

#23 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-03-10 08:24 PM | Reply

I've got nothing. I suck dick and swallow load after load from cops and my boss to get by.

#23 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

Fixed.

#24 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2019-03-10 08:34 PM | Reply

I've got nothing. I suck dick and swallow load after load from cops and my boss to get by.

#23 | POSTED BY piss stained mattress

Fixed, take 2.

#25 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2019-03-10 08:35 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

It's amazing that less than 2 decades ago Venezuela was the most prosperous nation in South America. It didn't take long for Socialism to totally destroy that country.

#26 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-03-11 10:22 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

By leftist definition socialism is a perfect system, if it fails it must not have been 'real socialism'. When a leftist talks up socialism it's like a science teacher describing a world of perfect spheres in vacuum on a frictionless table.

#27 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-03-11 11:06 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

My wife has relatives down in Venezuela and Columbia and she hears that it is a disaster, and at this point the only people who have consistent power are Maduro, his senior army staff and a number of his closest ministers. At some point, even his staunchest supporters are going to get tired of his lies, I just hope that too many people don't die first.

#28 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2019-03-11 11:59 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

This is starting to look more and more like Maduro is going to be Ceausescu'd.

If that is the case, I certainly hope that the Revolution will not be televised.

#29 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-03-11 12:28 PM | Reply

"the only people who have consistent power are Maduro, his senior army staff and a number of his closest ministers."

That's how Saddam kept Baghdad loyal. They always had power while in other parts of Iraq it was only om for a few hours a day.

American occupiers were confused why citizens of Baghdad weren't happy that their power wasn't always available during the occupation. "It's so other people can have a little more power," Viceroy Bremer explained. Meanwhile, Viceroy Bremer's power never went out.

#30 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-11 02:32 PM | Reply

"It didn't take long for Socialism to totally destroy that country."

Socialism doesn't destroy countries, people destroy countries.

Cuba suffered economically after the revolution. But mostly because the world's largest economy imposed a boycott. Not really anything the Socialists did, but rather something the Capitalists did.

#31 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-11 02:35 PM | Reply

Without capitalists there wouldn't be an economy and infrastructure (capital) for the socialists to auger into the ground. Socialism can only exist while it has a healthy host upon which to feed.

#32 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-03-11 02:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"infrastructure (capital)"

Hahahahaha!
Infrastructure gets built with capital.
It's not capital.
The Eisenhower Interstate System isn't capital.
But it does promote the general welfare and provide for the common defense. Both at the same time.

#33 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-11 03:35 PM | Reply

Did you know it was justified as a military defense project? Does the problem in Venezuela have any relation to overspending on infrastructure?

#34 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-03-11 04:21 PM | Reply

It's amazing that less than 2 decades ago Venezuela was the most prosperous nation in South America. It didn't take long for Socialism to totally destroy that country.

POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2019-03-11 10:22 AM | REPLY

Until we started meddling into their affairs and attempted coup after coup on them. Don't blame this on Socialism because that didn't cause their collapse.

#35 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2019-03-11 04:35 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

Their country failed because the state coopted production.

#36 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-03-11 04:42 PM | Reply

Socialism did to Venezuela exactly what it did to the USSR, East Germany, Cuba, North Korea....

#37 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-03-11 05:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Their country failed because the state coopted production."

That's not it.

Their country failed for the same reason Haiti failed.

Greedy, corrupt leaders coopted the state's natural resources for their own personal gain.

Both Haiti and the Dominican had totalitarian regimes. But not all totalitarian regimes are created equal. Duvalier viewed Haiti as a piggy bank to smash open, and capitalists were happy to help him smash it. Trujillo largely did the same, but he also left something behind for generations to come.

The impact each had on their county and its present economy is undeniable. You can literally see the border from satellite, because Haiti was logged beyond sustainability while DR was not.

Thanks, Capitalism!

#38 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-11 05:04 PM | Reply

"Socialism did to Venezuela exactly what it did to the USSR, East Germany, Cuba, North Korea...."
#37 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Scapegoated its failure among for willfully ignorant?

#39 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2019-03-11 05:13 PM | Reply

Greedy, corrupt leaders coopted the state's natural resources for their own personal gain.

True, but socialism made it so simple even a bus driver could do it.

#40 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-03-11 05:14 PM | Reply

among the*

#41 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2019-03-11 05:21 PM | Reply

"True, but socialism made it so simple even a bus driver could do it."

Were Duvalier and Trujillo socialists too? LOL!

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-11 05:22 PM | Reply

so simple even a bus driver could do it.

#40 | POSTED BY CRYIN TED CRUZ

Ted only thinks driving a bus is easy because he thinks his short bus is the norm.

#43 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2019-03-11 05:23 PM | Reply

Nope, nor were they bus drivers, as far as I know.

#44 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-03-11 05:23 PM | Reply

#38 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Filed under: "All of those states failed because they didn't do Socialism properly."

#45 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-03-11 05:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

And is Maduro's Venezuela more like Papa Doc's Haiti or Trump's USA?

#46 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-11 05:27 PM | Reply

"Filed under: "All of those states failed because they didn't do Socialism properly."

They didn't do socialism at all.
They did populism to get elected.
They did public welfare to build support.
Then they did totalitarianism to consolidate power.

#47 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-11 05:30 PM | Reply

And that goes for Duvalier and Trujillo as well.

#48 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-11 05:30 PM | Reply

#46

Neither, think Fidel Castro's Cuba or Nicolae Ceausescu's Romania.

#49 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-03-11 06:00 PM | Reply

#47

Totalitarianism is a by-product of Socialism.

I don't know what your love affair is with central planning - It doesn't work. Never has, never will.

#50 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-03-11 06:12 PM | Reply

How did China do over the last 4 decades?
Oh yeah, it did better economically than any country due to central planning.

Oops.

#51 | Posted by bored at 2019-03-11 06:23 PM | Reply

Central planning fails when those in charge are stupid.
The big advantage of private enterprise is that its power is based on control of money, which usually migrates to smart people. It's big disadvantage is that what is good for rich individuals is rarely good for society as a whole.

#52 | Posted by bored at 2019-03-11 06:28 PM | Reply

--How did China do over the last 4 decades?
Oh yeah, it did better economically than any country due to central planning.

China didn't do squat until Deng Xiaoping introduced free market reforms, not coincidentally 4 decades ago.

#53 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-03-11 06:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#53

The Economist had a great article in 2008 during the 30 year celebration of Deng's "Second Long March" that started with this:

"ENGELS never flew on an aeroplane; Stalin never wore Dacron." Thus China's late leader, Deng Xiaoping, to a meeting 30 years ago that is now officially seen as the starting-point of his economic and political reforms. Deng's words meant Maoist dogma was out and pragmatism was in. A dramatically transformed China is now commemorating the anniversary. But even as officials trot out a litany of achievements they attribute to the country's "reform and opening" policy -- 200m fewer citizens living in poverty, a 6% share of global GDP compared with 1.8% in 1978, a nearly 70% increase in grain production -- the world's financial crisis weighs heavily on their minds, and their leaders are struggling with unfinished business.

#54 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-03-11 07:42 PM | Reply

#53 If free market reforms were all it takes, explain why China did better than every country with free ish markets.

The Olympic village was built by central planning, same with transportation infrastructure far better than the US.

Hard to argue that central planning failed. Free markets are most efficient at allocating resources to make short term profits though.

#55 | Posted by bored at 2019-03-11 08:11 PM | Reply

explain why China did better than every country with free ish markets.

Their average labor rate per hour was $3.20, whereas in the US it is $24.57/hr, in the EU it is 34.50 Euros ($38.98/hr), Japan is $17.90/hr and South Korea is $12.68/hr.

Any other questions?

#56 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-03-11 08:27 PM | Reply

"When corrupt, crony, corporate capitalism takes over the government, egos and greed do happen, and individuals owning their own labor is a meaningless, talking point."

There was a time when Venezuela suffered under the yoke of egotistical kleptocrats who curried political favor with taxpayer dollars. And the country had one of the most vibrant economies in South America. The difference between those klepokrats and these kleptocrats? They were capitalists. I can't ------- fathom why this is so hard for you to figure out. Willful ignorance I suppose.

#57 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-11 09:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"They didn't do socialism at all.
They did populism to get elected.
They did public welfare to build support.
Then they did totalitarianism to consolidate power."

Dude, every last activity you listed is a cornerstone necessary to build a socialist state. You did forget a few, such as regulating the markets and gaining legal control of wages and profits, but they're still necessary steps. Especially the totalitarian thing.

#58 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-11 09:22 PM | Reply

Why does central planning work for corporations but not governments?

#59 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2019-03-11 09:23 PM | Reply

The Venezuelan people don't buy US propaganda for a second and withstood the latest US assault. An embarrassing defeat for the war criminal Eliot Abrams, Trump's choice for the job. Most countries in the world refused to recognize Washington's puppet if you count them all. International rejection of a possible invasion proved remarkably intense, and the Internet and the blogosphere overwhelmingly opposed U.S. intervention.

Pompeo, Abrams, Pence, Elliot Abrams and Marco Rubio became hysterical in their threats. Next they will probably claim that Maduro is a "new Hitler" who commits a "genocide" against his own people.

Juan Guaidó promised the U.S. government that if the majority of world leaders recognized him as president of Venezuela, at least half of the FANB officers would defect, which never happened. Guaidó has been publicly reproached by Vice President Mike Pence.

It will be interesting to see if the Iran-Venezuela haters are behind this latest power outage. We certainly have the capability and the CIA's trademark is always plausible deniability. Whoa be anyone that would dare to commit such a war crime to us.

#60 | Posted by bayviking at 2019-03-11 09:38 PM | Reply

"Next they will probably claim that Maduro is a "new Hitler" who commits a "genocide" against his own people."

We can't see that he will, but we sure as hell can't say that he won't. Genocide has been a hallmark of socialist leaders for quite some time.

#61 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-11 09:50 PM | Reply

"Dude, every last activity you listed is a cornerstone necessary to build a socialist state."

I mean, sure, but no more or no less than they're necessary to build a capitalist state.

#62 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-11 10:20 PM | Reply

"Their average labor rate per hour was $3.20, whereas in the US it is $24.57/hr, in the EU it is 34.50 Euros ($38.98/hr), Japan is $17.90/hr and South Korea is $12.68/hr.
Any other questions?"

Yeah, why do you think Americans are doing better than EU people?

#63 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-11 10:22 PM | Reply

"Totalitarianism is a by-product of Socialism. "

No it's not. Totalitarianism is Totalitarianism. It can be capitalist totalitarian , which is what China exiled to Taiwan.

#64 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-11 10:23 PM | Reply

"I don't know what your love affair is with central planning - It doesn't work. Never has, never will."

I don't know what your love affair with corporatist mythology is.
I don't think you do either.

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-11 10:24 PM | Reply

Socialism is a commitment to the common good, with proponents like Jonas Salk, Jack London and Albert Einstein. We've killed more innocent people in the name of saving them than most dictators. We've supported many Dictators who kill people as long as they do things our way, including the worst nation on earth, Saudi Arabia.

Mad has invented his own definition of terms, unacceptable in any English dictionary.

#66 | Posted by bayviking at 2019-03-11 10:39 PM | Reply

Every state that has ever tried socialism quickly became totalitarian. Totalitarianism goes hand in hand with Socialism.

#67 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-03-11 10:40 PM | Reply

"No it's not. Totalitarianism is Totalitarianism. It can be capitalist totalitarian , which is what China exiled to Taiwan."

That's true. The difference is that socialism relies on totalitarian rule to ensure it's continued existence. The free market does not, because it's based on individuals maximizing opportunity. In fact the free market nearly always emegeres, even in countries where socialists would execute or imprison to keep it from happening.

#68 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-11 10:42 PM | Reply

"Every state that has ever tried socialism quickly became totalitarian. Totalitarianism goes hand in hand with Socialism."

Yes, Jeff...but it's totalitarian for the right reasons.

#69 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-11 10:42 PM | Reply

Socialism is a commitment to the common good, - Bayviking

No, it isn't. This is what Socialism is:

Definition of socialism
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

www.merriam-webster.com

Words have meaning. I fully expect some of the lower echelon to try and redefine what it is, but you are way too smart to be doing this.

#70 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-03-11 10:44 PM | Reply

That so many Millenials and Gen Z think they want Socialism when they obviously don't understand what it is is an indictment of our public education system.

#71 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-03-11 10:55 PM | Reply

"The difference is that socialism relies on totalitarian rule to ensure it's continued existence. The free market does not, because it's based on individuals maximizing opportunity."

What does the free market rely on to prevent monopoly?

Or is there no such thing as a free market in the real world. since governments exist, and have rules about things like "how much a pound weighs," which robs us of our freedom to define how much a pound weighs in ways that maximize our opportunity?

#72 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-11 11:02 PM | Reply

"Every state that has ever tried socialism quickly became totalitarian. Totalitarianism goes hand in hand with Socialism."
Yes, Jeff...but it's totalitarian for the right reasons."

I can cut through all the BS for both of you:
Under Communism, man exploits man.
Under Capitalism it's the other way round.

#73 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-11 11:03 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

#72 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2019-03-11 11:02 PM | FLAG: Yet every year new millionaires are created in this Capitalistic country and many more move up in class under our society. Few are created under socialism as that system actually inhibits initiative to excel.

US added 700,000 new millionaires in 2017. Millionaire households in the U.S. jumped by more than 700,000 last year, according to a new report from Spectrem Group. The U.S. now has a record of more than 11 million millionaire households.Mar 22, 2018
US added 700,000 new millionaires in 2017 - CNBC.com
www.cnbc.com

Socialism is an economic system where the means of production, such as money and other forms of capital, are owned by the state or public. Under a socialist system, everyone works for wealth that is in turn distributed to everyone. Under capitalism, you work for your own wealth.Nov 20, 2018
The Differences Between Capitalism and Socialism
www.thebalancesmb.com

#74 | Posted by MSgt at 2019-03-11 11:07 PM | Reply

"Or is there no such thing as a free market in the real world. since governments exist..."

Like I said, free markets had the tendency to emerge, even when those participating in them risked jail. Or worse.

The free market may be the only economic constant that can be relied upon. But I get where you're coming from. Attempt to deny reality in the hopes that no one is paying attention.

In it's best moments, socialism is fragile. It's a house of cards. Which is why socialists have always used any means necessary to protect it.

#75 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-11 11:10 PM | Reply

A regulated market isn't Socialism.

#76 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-03-11 11:11 PM | Reply

"I can cut through all the BS for both of you:"

You didn't cut through ----... so I'll do it for you. Under capitalism, sales of goods or labor are conducted in a manner in which each party maximizes it's respective opportunity. Under socialism, sales of goods and labor are conducted by the state in a manner which best supports the socialist ideal...even if the other stakeholders suffer in the process.

#77 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-11 11:13 PM | Reply

#71

There are a number of different types of socialism, but almost none of them reflect the pablum that the mouthbreathing "Democratic Socialists" are trying to redefine them to be. The closest current definition that they come to is what the Scandinavians call "Compassionate Capitalism", but using that term would get them kicked out of the Kool Kids Klub.

#78 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-03-11 11:15 PM | Reply

I find it interesting how the Trumpets are so concerned about Venezuela. And of course immediately suspicious.

Are they just hoping for it's collapsing or are they actually investing in its failures?

Because SOCIALISM!!

Here's little hunt for you Trumpets. Take or leave it (don't take it...plz?)

The Ebil Socialism of Venezuela is not gonna save Humpy from himself.

This is not the "drone" you are looking for.

#79 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-03-11 11:15 PM | Reply

#73

Especially when you're The Man.

#80 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-03-11 11:16 PM | Reply

The Ebil Socialism of Venezuela is not gonna save Humpy from himself.

That's not what this is about, but deflection noted.

#81 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-03-11 11:17 PM | Reply

"There are a number of different types of socialism, but almost none of them reflect the pablum that the mouthbreathing "Democratic Socialists" are trying to redefine them to be."

Democratic socialism is as much an oxymoron as democratic fascism.

#82 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-11 11:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"The Ebil Socialism of Venezuela is not gonna save Humpy from himself."

The best Trump could hope for is that the Dems embrace the Democratic Socialist moniker.

It just means he won't have to try as hard.

#83 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-11 11:22 PM | Reply

"Democratic socialism is as much an oxymoron as democratic fascism."

Or democratic capitalism.

#84 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-11 11:33 PM | Reply

"The best Trump could hope for is that the Dems embrace the Democratic Socialist moniker."

Trumps plan is to try and turn the Dems hard left

Trump thinks Bernie Sanders is the leader of the Dems. (Note for Trumpets : He is not actually a Dem, he has only agreed to run as one).

Trump hopes and prays Bernie comes out on top. Trump only has a primitive knowledge of history and only knows what has occurred during his lifetime and he remembers Nixon in 72 driving the Dems hard left to McGovern.

He obviously thinks he can do it all over again. But WAY better of course!!

Id like to say that could never happen again but... I would never have predicted Trump so maybe Impeachment really isn't all that bad of an option.

#85 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-03-11 11:38 PM | Reply

"A regulated market isn't Socialism."

Depends on the regulations.

#86 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-11 11:41 PM | Reply

"In it's best moments, socialism is fragile."

Society itself is fragile.
People are dying of measles because they don't believe in socialism.

#87 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-11 11:43 PM | Reply

"Under capitalism, sales of goods or labor are conducted in a manner in which each party maximizes it's respective opportunity."

Like when you bribe a legislator, or use your EBT at the strip club, that kind of thing?

#88 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-11 11:46 PM | Reply

"Or democratic capitalism."

I feel like this is the time when you provide some examples.

#89 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-11 11:48 PM | Reply

#85

I think you're right. A left-wing candidate would appeal to the noisiest progressives...the problem is that the candidate needs to be able to shift back to the center after the primaries. Bernie would have never been able to do that. And when the candidate can't do that, it's pretty easy for the other side to sweep in.

#90 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-11 11:50 PM | Reply

Democracy is where each person has an equal say.
Capitalism is where your say is directly proportional to your capital.
These examples brought to you by the dictionary.

#91 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-11 11:50 PM | Reply

"People are dying of measles because they don't believe in socialism."

Really?

Did the USSR do a better job of treating measles than the US?

#92 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-11 11:53 PM | Reply

"Democracy is where each person has an equal say."

Democracy is where 50.1% of the population can vote to execute the remaining 49.1%...after raping them.

That's 100% a democratic outcome.

#93 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-11 11:55 PM | Reply

And even your severely retarded example is not true. I have very little capital, yet my vote carries the same weight as any other voter in the state of Idaho.

#94 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-11 11:57 PM | Reply

Like when you ... use your EBT at the strip club, that kind of thing?

I have always admired how Snoofy shares his own life experiences to make a point.

#95 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-03-11 11:58 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

The lack of reliable electricity is one of the goals of the GND. I bet Venezuela has already achieved sustainable CO2 emission levels. Soon they'll solve overpopulation, with disease and hunger.

#96 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-03-12 12:07 AM | Reply

"Democracy is where 50.1% of the population can vote to execute the remaining 49.1%...after raping them."

Capitalism is where you can buy people and breed them and rape the babies and murder the parents.

#97 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-12 12:22 AM | Reply

"Did the USSR do a better job of treating measles than the US?"

Treating?
Preventing.
Vaccines don't treat disease, they prevent it.

#98 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-12 12:23 AM | Reply

Capitalism is where you can buy people and breed them and rape the babies and murder the parents.

#97 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

You come up with the most bizarre and ridiculous "scenarios" of anybody on this site.

#99 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-03-12 12:24 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Slavery in a capitalist paradigm is a bizarre and ridiculous scenario to you?

Have you ever taken an American history class at the high school level, JeffJ?

#100 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-12 12:26 AM | Reply

Slavery in this country was abolished over 150 years ago.

Communist countries enslave their entire population in the modern day.

#101 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-03-12 12:36 AM | Reply

"Slavery in this country was abolished over 150 years ago. "

and yet Robert Kraft was part of a sex slave sting last week.

legal or not, people are still for sale.

#102 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2019-03-12 12:44 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"A regulated market isn't Socialism"

Written by the same idiot that claims "social security isn't socialism".

Notice how each side lives inside its own bubble with its own definition of terms rendering genuine communication impossible.

Every society by any name is a unique combination of capitalist and socialist policies. In the USA we have public roads, parks, libraries, schools, the police, the fire department, Center for Disease Control, the military and many more, all free which really means they're all paid for with taxes, in service to the common good, everyone that is except the military, which has been captured for nefarious purposes other than national defense.

#103 | Posted by bayviking at 2019-03-12 12:51 AM | Reply

"A regulated market isn't Socialism"
---
Written by the same idiot that claims "social security isn't socialism".

The definition of Socialism has been provided. Why you want to try and redefine it is beyond me.

You define Socialism literally as: government. That's it. All government is Socialism, based upon the examples you've given here and in the past.

That's retarded, and you of all people should know better.

#104 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-03-12 12:54 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

You define Socialism literally as: government. That's it. All government is Socialism, based upon the examples you've given here and in the past.

For the record, only an idiot defines Socialism in this fashion.

#105 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-03-12 12:56 AM | Reply

Slavery in this country was abolished over 150 years ago.
Communist countries enslave their entire population in the modern day.
#101 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Segregation of those eligible for slavery in this country was only abolished a century after that>?

Why do you think that is?

Slavery provided the human capital needed to make this country a profitable enterprise from before the Founding Fathers, who wisely codified the practice into law.

#106 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-12 02:00 AM | Reply

Notice how each side lives inside its own bubble with its own definition of terms rendering genuine communication impossible.

Most Newsworthy post on this entire fffking thread.

#107 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-03-12 02:37 AM | Reply

Slavery in this country was abolished over 150 years ago.

Prison labor: Modern slavery.

Look into it.

#108 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-03-12 02:43 AM | Reply

Notice how each side lives inside its own bubble with its own definition of terms rendering genuine communication impossible.

Each side? One side utilizes the definition that has existed for more than a millennia. The other side attempts to redefine the word to simply mean: Government. It's as if some of you lefties have a fetish over the term, Socialism.

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." - Inigo Montoya

#109 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-03-12 02:46 AM | Reply

Sorry for the runaway italics.

#110 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-03-12 02:47 AM | Reply

I'd like JeffJ's answer to:
Why did it take a century from ending slavery to ending segregation of the former slaves?

#111 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-12 02:47 AM | Reply

Slavery in this country was abolished over 150 years ago.
----
Prison labor: Modern slavery.

Look into it.

#108 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Please name for me a government that doesn't have prisons...

One of the many problems with this discussion is that Capitalism is an amoral economic system.

Socialism, is both an economic system and a political system, all rolled into one.

By far the biggest problem is that, for some strange reason, a subset of the left desperately wants to redefine what Socialism actually is.

#112 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-03-12 02:52 AM | Reply

I want a do-over on #109...

Notice how each side lives inside its own bubble with its own definition of terms rendering genuine communication impossible. - Nutcase

Each side? One side utilizes the definition that has existed for more than a millennia. The other side (your side) attempts to redefine the word to simply mean: Government. It's as if some of you lefties have a fetish over the term, Socialism.

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." - Inigo Montoya

#113 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-03-12 03:01 AM | Reply

Why did it take a century from ending slavery to ending segregation of the former slaves?

#111 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Pick up a history book. It had little to do with Capitalism and had much to do with racism and politics.

#114 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-03-12 03:03 AM | Reply

What's really funny about the whole present-day debate over Socialism is how Progressives and Democrats are all over the map.

On the one hand, this subset of the left seeks to redefine "Socialism" to literally be "government". Um, OK. Then a subset of non-Lefties (this includes some center-left Liberals) waltzes in and points out that what Socialism truly is, and then goes a step further to illustrate that the shiny new toy on the left, the GND, requires actual Socialism - a nearly full-usurpation of our economy by the state - and then, THEN these very same lefties decry "fear-mongering!"

It's funny to watch.

#115 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-03-12 03:10 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Each side? One side utilizes the definition that has existed for more than a millennia.

Words and meanings change as society dictates. Conservatives really have problems with change. Either way. Your definition of socialism isn't correct. Despite your insistence otherwise.

The other side (your side) attempts to redefine the word to simply mean: Government. It's as if some of you lefties have a fetish over the term, Socialism.

Seems like you haven't a clue what "my side" defines socialism as.

Re read this as often as necessary,

"Notice how each side lives inside its own bubble with its own definition of terms rendering genuine communication impossible."

It should be obvious to you by now, this is indisputable.

#116 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-03-12 03:31 AM | Reply

On the one hand, this subset of the left seeks to redefine "Socialism" to literally be "government".

Citation necessary.

#117 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-03-12 03:42 AM | Reply

Jeff creates a strawman in 104:

You define Socialism literally as: government. That's it. All government is Socialism, based upon the examples you've given here and in the past.
#104 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2019-03-12 12:54 AM

And then insults it in 105:

For the record, only an idiot defines Socialism in this fashion.
#105 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2019-03-12 12:56 AM

Quite amusing.

#118 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-03-12 04:10 AM | Reply

It's funny to watch.
#115 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Conservatives flailing their arms desperaty telling liberals what to do?

Yes. Quite.

#119 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-03-12 04:14 AM | Reply

"Pick up a history book. It had little to do with Capitalism and had much to do with racism and politics."

Why does sharecropping have little to do with capitalism?
To take a modern day manifestation of racial exploitation, why does redlining have little to do with capitalism?

#120 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-12 04:23 AM | Reply

"What's really funny about the whole present-day debate over Socialism is how Progressives and Democrats are all over the map."

What the right wants you to believe is that us on the left support having your food grown by socialist farms or your cars made by socialist auto makers. We have never ever said those things but as a fear tactic the right likes to equate Medicare for all with Communism. Dishonest, despicable, and just not true. Germany is a very successful capitalist economy that depends o lots of socialized benefits to give their population comfort and security, we here who are Democrats want the same things Germans have. Unions. Free College, Healthcare for all. But we don't mind if Volkswagen or GM make profits as long as labor is allowed to unionize and collectively bargain. Eliminate the unions as the right is always trying to do and you end up in Fascism. WE here on the left cannot and will not ever support that.

#121 | Posted by danni at 2019-03-12 08:11 AM | Reply

Jeff creates a strawman in 104:

That was not a straw man, Clown. Reread the examples Viking gave as many times as necessary until it sinks in.

What the right wants you to believe is that us on the left support having your food grown by socialist farms or your cars made by socialist auto makers.

#121 | POSTED BY DANNI

Then tell the idiotic lefties on this site as well as in the general populace to quit misusing the term "Socialism". This is bizarre. It's become a trendy term and it's one the left and even some Democrats, including true believers like AOC, use because it's woke. The problem is it has an actual definition and then lefties get all kinds of pissed off when their political opponents paint lefties as Socialists in terms that are actually applicable to that word. You can't have it both ways.

#122 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-03-12 09:16 AM | Reply

-You can't have it both ways.

think about who you are telling that to......

#123 | Posted by eberly at 2019-03-12 09:21 AM | Reply

Your definition of socialism isn't correct. Despite your insistence otherwise.

#116 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

It's not MY definition.

Let's try this again...

Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production and workers' self-management,[10] as well as the political theories and movements associated with them.[11] Social ownership can be public, collective or cooperative ownership, or citizen ownership of equity.[12] There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them,[13] with social ownership being the common element shared by its various forms.

en.wikipedia.org

Definition of socialism
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

www.merriam-webster.com

Socialism, social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources. According to the socialist view, individuals do not live or work in isolation but live in cooperation with one another. Furthermore, everything that people produce is in some sense a social product, and everyone who contributes to the production of a good is entitled to a share in it. Society as a whole, therefore, should own or at least control property for the benefit of all its members.

This conviction puts socialism in opposition to capitalism, which is based on private ownership...


www.britannica.com

#124 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-03-12 09:30 AM | Reply

In bizarro land, Sanders can say "I'm a socialist," but if you call him a "socialist" and his programs "socialist" you're redbaiting or something. Same with AOC's Green Scam, which is essentially the platform of the DSA.

#125 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-03-12 09:31 AM | Reply

#125 Nulli,

As you surely know, implementation of the Green New Deal would require the US to become a Socialist hellhole, like Venezuela.

#126 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-03-12 09:35 AM | Reply

"As you surely know, implementation of the Green New Deal would require the US to become a Socialist hellhole, like Venezuela." - #126 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-03-12 09:35 AM

Why is it that some people treat the Green New Deal as if it might become law without so much as a single change to it, that it would pass the GOP-controlled Senate (again, without a single change), and that federal courts, all the way up to the SCOTUS, would find it, exactly as written with zero changes, 100% Constitutional?

But, I suppose as an unnuanced boogeyman scare tactic, it fits the bill.

#127 | Posted by Hans at 2019-03-12 10:10 AM | Reply

Venezuela is an oligarchy now, not socialism.

#128 | Posted by ichiro at 2019-03-12 10:10 AM | Reply

#70
yes, that's what he said.

#129 | Posted by ichiro at 2019-03-12 10:11 AM | Reply

Hans,

I get that the Overton Window prevents the GND from ever becoming close to a reality.

#130 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-03-12 10:12 AM | Reply

It's a waste of time to argue over the meaning of these politically charged words.

Who owns our damns, roads, libraries, schools, bridges, public utilities sattelites, aircraft carriers and social security trust fund? The government, some local, some State and some Federal. Without Government support less research would be achieved.

To pretend we do not have socialist traditions or that they always fail is utterly ridiculous.

What really matters is taxes. The rich have corrupted our governnt and Dodge taxes at every level and this must not be tolerated. Tax the rich feed the poor.

#131 | Posted by bayviking at 2019-03-12 10:45 AM | Reply

"It's as if some of you lefties have a fetish over the term, Socialism. "

You were doing pretty good until you laid it at the feet of the Left.

Lefties never had a "fetish". Certain politic methods and ideology and terminology come into fashion and just as soon vanish.

Red scare yellow scare pinko communists socialism all terms used to instill fear of change a fear of the Other.

We forget how young our Democratic Republic really is. We act like Capitalism is the undefeated champion of the Universe.

Many Civilizations have lasted longer than ours. We have found city states that have Existed for thousands of years. We have found civilizations that had no poverty or class divisions and no defensive structures indicating no war. We act like we are the Be All and End All to Everything.

We are still an Experiment that can fail. The odds are still against us.

#132 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-03-12 10:50 AM | Reply

I would agree to many things for free, such as college, healthcare, etc.

I get it.

Can we close all the military bases outside of the US, that we contribute to the UN and to such operations, no more than the second highest country, and no more than double the bottom, combined half of nations contributions, whichever is less as our ceiling?

Enforce laws to punish employers and employees engaged in illegal employment.

#133 | Posted by Petrous at 2019-03-12 11:23 AM | Reply

Maduro, along with Minister of Communication Jorge Rodriguez, continue to provide evidence that Pompeo and the U.S. authorities were the masterminds behind this very 'situation', pulling off a cyber attack on the state electric company's computer system at the El Guri hydroelectric plant resulting in the near nationwide power outage.

The International Committee of the Red Cross denounced the shipment, saying the so-called aid appeared to be politically motivated amid the two countries' strained relations. Pulling out our diplomats is a very ugly indicator of what the bad boys in DC are up to.

#134 | Posted by bayviking at 2019-03-12 03:38 PM | Reply

We have found civilizations that had no poverty or class divisions.

#132 | Posted by donnerboy

Did they wear clothes? Farm? Use chairs?

Do tell.

#135 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2019-03-12 06:09 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#134

They have actually provided no evidence but made plenty of accusations, and in fact just arrested a prominent journalist who published a series of articles documenting the deterioration of the power grid prior to the blackouts.

The ICRC did not "denounce" the shipment (that was propaganda from Maduro) but merely said that the USAID was highly politicized and would not participate in its distribution due to concerns for its staff's safety. Since Maduro would not guarantee unrestricted access to ICRC personnel, they declined to participate.

Now we are pulling out our diplomats, according to the BBC, since water has been cut off to the US embassy.

#136 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-03-12 06:33 PM | Reply

"Capitalism is where you can buy people and breed them and rape the babies and murder the parents."

The only place I know that you can still buy people is a little village called Baghuz Fawquani. And since said village is dominated strict Muslims who don't do the whole "interest" thing, it's kinda hard to claim that the slaves there are victims of capitalism. And even if they were, how is that any different than your socialist friends in North Korea.

#137 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-12 06:58 PM | Reply

Too lazy to google yourself, eh RoC?

www.cybersecurity-insiders.com

Alexandra Boivin, ICRC delegation head for the United States and Canada, said Friday that the ICRC had told U.S. officials that whatever plans "they have to help the people of Venezuela, it has to be shielded from this political conversation."
"It is obviously a very difficult conversation to have with the U.S.," she said. "We are there also to make clear the risks of the path being taken, the limits of our ability to operate in such an environment."
www.pbs.org

www.trtworld.com

"We will not be participating in what is, for us, not humanitarian aid," stated Colombia's International Red Cross (ICRC) spokesperson, Christoph Harnisch.
venezuelanalysis.com

We live in a sea of lies, just like the Russians and Chinese. The lies are different in each country, of course. But the biggest difference is the Chinese and Russians know they're being lied to and the Americans don't have a clue.

#138 | Posted by bayviking at 2019-03-12 07:04 PM | Reply

Mad never heard of the massage parlor businesses in the USA, kept alive through trafficking. Trump's Chinese friend, Mar-a-Lago member and guest with Trump at the last Superbowl, has a string of them in Florida. They're all a bunch of child molesters.

#139 | Posted by bayviking at 2019-03-12 07:13 PM | Reply

Both of your links prove my point, namely that USAID was highly politicized and that Maduro would not guarantee unrestricted access to ICRC personnel:

Q. What is your position regarding the aid distribution proposed for Venezuela? Will the ICRC participate?

It is important that more aid reaches Venezuelan people in need. This is why the ICRC is increasing its humanitarian response in the country. Our only concern is to ensure that the most affected people are assisted and in the best possible way.

We are ready to bring humanitarian aid to Venezuela provided that all stakeholders agree on the ICRC's and the Red Cross' role, that it is strictly based on needs and delivered to all those who need it with strict impartiality. We will continue to work through our usual channels to bring assistance according to our principles of neutrality, impartiality and independence. We will not enter into political discussions.

As we know from experience working in different and highly complex locations, the ICRC´s posture of neutrality pays off, as it enables our teams in the field to access affected populations and respond to their needs whilst reminding all stakeholders that this is the priority.

...

Wherever we work, it is always important that humanitarian organizations be granted unrestricted access to the populations in need. We currently don't have that in Venezuela.

ICRC: Q&A: Humanitarian situation in Venezuela

#140 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-03-12 07:15 PM | Reply

And Venezuelanalysis.com is a propaganda arm and funded by the Maduro administration, BTW.

#141 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-03-12 07:17 PM | Reply

"Mad never heard of the massage parlor businesses in the USA, kept alive through trafficking."

Really? Where do I buy a person? Do I get a reciept? Maybe a certificate of ownership? You know, to prove I actually own them?

#142 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-12 08:39 PM | Reply

Apparently the words of two representatives from the ICRC can only be interpreted in RoC's brain as another criticism of Maduro, when it is clearly the US playing a public relations game for reasons the public has no right to know.

Still, given the circumstances, Maduro should have let the goods cross his border using his own personnel. But there is no reason to let the enemy in.

We have seized Venezuelan assets in the USA and convinced England to refuse to return Venezuela's gold, totaling tens of billions of dollars. We have imposed sanctions totaling hundreds of billions of dollars. Those sanctions means critical parts for hospitals, refineries and power plants are no longer available. We have financed paid demonstrators inside Venezuela. The timing of the current blackout is suspicious and well within the hacking capabilities of the USA to carry out. Our value system is we can do it to you, but no one better ever do the same to us.

So after all this US meddling, the democratically elected Maduro is supposed to believe that our paltry $20 million aid package is out of a sincere concern for the suffering of the Venezuelan people. Before Chavez came along no one in the USA gave a damn whether Venezuelan peasants lived or died. Chavez lifted them all out of poverty and ignorance which enraged the United States. But the peasants haven't forgotten who is there friend and who is their enemy. That is the only reason Maduro is still standing.

#143 | Posted by bayviking at 2019-03-12 08:41 PM | Reply

"The rich have corrupted our governnt and Dodge taxes at every level and this must not be tolerated. Tax the rich feed the poor."

Do you know how you fix that? You take their wealth, put them up against the wall, and put a bullet through their heads. At least that's been the historical socialist fix for the problem. Rich or poor, there is a limit to how much earned income an individual is willing to give up.

I'm going to educate you here. It doesn't matter what the tax rate is, the government will collect nothing if the labor is not used to generate income. And what progressives have never addressed are the 2nd-->n order effects brought on by tax changes. In Bernie's economic proposals during his campaign, the underlying assumption was that taxpayers would not change their behavior in response to the higher rates. Is that a possibility? Yes, but reality would suggest that higher tax rates would create a disincentive for high income earners to engage in those activities that generate high incomes.

#144 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-12 08:47 PM | Reply

grow up mad,

www.themuse.com

polarisproject.org

borgenproject.org

But if you are really intersted this is just for you:

www.rosebrides.com

#145 | Posted by bayviking at 2019-03-12 08:53 PM | Reply

I'll make it easy for you champ. Can I legally go buy a person or not? Snoofy was claiming that slavery was a function of capitalism. I would submit that I could likely buy someone more legally in a socialist country like North Korea or Venezuela than in the US.

#146 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-12 09:12 PM | Reply

"The only place I know that you can still buy people is a little village called Baghuz Fawquani."

So much for that whole "free market" thing, eh?

#147 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-12 09:23 PM | Reply

"I'll make it easy for you champ. Can I legally go buy a person or not?"

"Legally" is not a concern for capitalism.

Money spends the same, whether you steal it, inherit it, print your own, whatever.

#148 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-12 09:25 PM | Reply

"reality would suggest that higher tax rates would create a disincentive for high income earners to engage in those activities that generate high incomes."

What real evidence suggests that?

#149 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-12 09:27 PM | Reply

"Maybe a certificate of ownership?"

Branding iron.

#150 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-12 09:28 PM | Reply

"Really? Where do I buy a person?"

Southeast Asia, easterm Europe.

Are you actually denying people are trafficked into this country to serve as sex workers?

#151 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-12 09:31 PM | Reply

"Legally" is not a concern for capitalism."

Agreed. It's also not a concern when it comes to socialism.

#152 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-12 09:40 PM | Reply

"What real evidence suggests that?"

Historical data points.

And common sense.

People might be willing to work at a 100% tax rate. Do you think they would?

#153 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-12 09:41 PM | Reply

"Are you actually denying people are trafficked into this country to serve as sex workers?"

I'm denying that you can legally buy a person...something you already know to be true. And I could just as easily buy a person in a socialist country. In fact I might not even have to buy them. The Soviet Socialists enslaved millions. They didn't pay a cent.

#154 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-12 09:43 PM | Reply

"I'm denying that you can legally buy a person.." - #154 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-12 09:43 PM

"Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors."

#155 | Posted by Hans at 2019-03-12 09:48 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

the democratically elected Maduro

Even Jimmy Carter calls bs on that talking point, given the fact that Maduro jailed all of his opposition so that he ran against a hairdresser and one of his lackeys..

We have imposed sanctions totaling hundreds of billions of dollars. Those sanctions means critical parts for hospitals, refineries and power plants are no longer available.

In personal assets, not in Venezuelan Government assets (outside of the PdVSA assets seized in the last two months, which have had no impact on what has happened in 2018).

The timing of the current blackout is suspicious and well within the hacking capabilities of the USA to carry out.

True, but outside experts say it is an infrastructure failure, not a cyber attack, which is why that journalist was just arrested for reporting that.

But the peasants haven't forgotten who is there friend and who is their enemy.

Which is why he has his secret police killing them in the barrios when they protest.

#156 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-03-12 10:00 PM | Reply

#155

Just look for...the union label...

#157 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-03-12 10:01 PM | Reply

I have long held that there only three ways to generate new wealth, farming, mining and manufacturing. No argument there. But can you imagine being profitable in those activities without water, power, roads, educated workers, sewage treatment plants, telephones, or cars? If the only people planning our communities are Real Estate developers no one would ever be able to get around, which is the general direction things are going. Providing the things we call infrastructure, at a low cost makes every company function better, be more competitive and requires people who aren't supposed to have a stake in one particular industry in order to ensure balanced economic development and prevent corruption. These things do not take care of themselves and more often than not require subsidies in order to reach a competitive scale. Thus more government.

Every company needs lots of workers. There is no reason one person should reap most of the benefits from the hard work of all the workers but that trend is getting worse every year. One reason is the demise of labor unions, a consequence of the one percents class war against workers. They always want you to have less so they can have more. The optimum organization is employee ownership.

#158 | Posted by bayviking at 2019-03-12 10:05 PM | Reply

"I'm denying that you can legally buy a person."

Then you're dodging the issue.
Again, legally is not a feature of the capitalist paradigm.
Making things legal or illegal is government interference in the free market.

#159 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-12 10:18 PM | Reply

"What real evidence suggests that?
Historical data points."

Show me the data.

#160 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-12 10:19 PM | Reply

"People might be willing to work at a 100% tax rate. Do you think they would?"

So let's say we made income tax regressive, taxing lowest wages at the highest rate.
You think that would improve the economy by pushing people into higher income jobs?

#161 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-12 10:24 PM | Reply

"Again, legally is not a feature of the capitalist paradigm."

If that were true, then couldn't I walk down to the nearest Ford dealership and simply drive away with the Expedition of my choice?

#162 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-12 11:00 PM | Reply

"Show me the data."

Per your request

mises.org

#163 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-12 11:05 PM | Reply

"So let's say we made income tax regressive, taxing lowest wages at the highest rate. You think that would improve the economy by pushing people into higher income jobs?"

Definitely. If you disagree, please explain why.

Furthermore, many progressives argue diminishing marginal value as incomes increase. If the services those individuals provide are truly valuable, you would need to increase marginal return to compensate for the decrease in marginal value for each additional dollar earned. Consider a brain surgeon earningt $1m a year. If he/she is satisfied with $500k a year, how do you incentivize them to continue working beyond that income level?

Similarly, even if you were to increase taxes on someone making moe than $500k per year, what would stop the market from driving up costs to compenstate for the tax increases? You're basically just passing the cost of the taxes on to consumers. And those who are willing to pay will pay.

#164 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-12 11:12 PM | Reply

And those who are willing to pay will pay.

And those that can't will suffer....

#165 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-03-12 11:25 PM | Reply

Again, legally is not a feature of the capitalist paradigm.

Most certainly is .... contract law is the basis of capitalism.

#166 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-03-12 11:26 PM | Reply

"Again, legally is not a feature of the capitalist paradigm.

Most certainly is .... contract law is the basis of capitalism."

Enforcement of contract law acquiesces to the state the authority to compel the contracted parties adherence to the terms of contract, and nothing more. Capitalism doesn't grant the state carte blanche to decide a contract for slaves, or a pound of flesh, might itself be illegal.

Stay in school, kids!

#167 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-13 12:01 AM | Reply

"So let's say we made income tax regressive, taxing lowest wages at the highest rate. You think that would improve the economy by pushing people into higher income jobs?"
Definitely. If you disagree, please explain why.

I explain my disagreement by way of saying, if this were truly workable, why hasn't some nation decided to do it and rise to the top?

What's the basis for your saying it would work? Is there math involved, or just things that aren't math?

#168 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-13 12:03 AM | Reply

"What's the basis for your saying it would work? Is there math involved, or just things that aren't math?"

There is math...in the form of economics. Additionally, from a collection perspective, you're capturing a larger chunk of available revenues. It would be much like a flat tax.

But just like with higher incomes, too high a tax rate, and workers are going to choose something other than wage labor to consume their time.

#169 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-03-13 09:55 AM | Reply

A lesson in mad's imaginary math, which doesn't matter because under a regressive tax scheme the poor would all die. They have a hard enough time just finding the money to keep their car running under a progressive tax scheme and will soon find themselves out of car, job and food in a regressive tax scheme.

Economist Baker suggested that as tax rates for the rich exceed 50% they begin to invest more time energy in tax dodging schemes since they have the time, money and staff to invent such methods or just buy a personal tax break from Congress. This is consistent with mad's actual rate data, but hardly a justification for illegal or immoral schemes.

#170 | Posted by bayviking at 2019-03-13 08:30 PM | Reply

"There is math...in the form of economics."

Let's see the math please.

#171 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-13 11:49 PM | Reply

Let's see the math please.

#171 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Why? You couldn't understand it, and even if you could you don't really care.

#172 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-03-14 12:14 AM | Reply

I'll be the judge of that.

#173 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-03-14 02:26 AM | Reply

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