Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, February 17, 2019

A student from a Tampa suburb is facing misdemeanor charges after an apparent confrontation with his teacher who wanted him to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. The 11-year-old refused to recite the pledge, telling his teacher that he believes the flag is racist and America's national anthem is offensive to black people, according to a Bay News 9 report that cited a statement that the teacher gave to district officials.

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Kid stands his ground sans weapon.

#1 | Posted by Corky at 2019-02-17 04:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

True dat
The teacher responded by saying, "Well you can always go back, because I came here from Cuba, and the day I feel I'm not welcome here anymore, I would find another place to live."

#2 | Posted by homerj at 2019-02-17 05:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Hopefully this kid gets a settlement just like Colin Kaepernick did.

#3 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-17 05:12 PM | Reply

Can't view article due to a wall.

Guessing there's more to the story.

#4 | Posted by sentinel at 2019-02-17 05:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The rest of the story is use an Incognito window... or stop reading Washpo so much.

#5 | Posted by Corky at 2019-02-17 05:35 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I wonder if the 11 year old will be put on trial as an adult.

#6 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2019-02-17 10:23 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Not Tampa - Lakeland. The god-awful Lakeland police. No wonder this Black kid chose not to stand for the pledge.

And the teacher? Clueless dumbass, doens't know the law, doens't care about the law, creates a scene, and the student gets suspended?

The school should apologize.

Barring that, the kid's mom should sue the **** out of them all.

#7 | Posted by YAV at 2019-02-17 10:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

They have laws that compel you to recite the pledge? I thought we had a First Amendment...

#8 | Posted by chuffy at 2019-02-17 11:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

From the article: "The affidavit stated that the student threatened to beat the teacher"

#9 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-02-17 11:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#9 - no proof, only Alvarez' word on it, and she already lied.

#10 | Posted by YAV at 2019-02-17 11:22 PM | Reply

Fahrenheit 11/9 goes into Despotism at 1:42:35 where 1930's Germany is reminded what will happen if athletes don't step and fetch.
Original footage used in F11/9 is here:
Democracy v. Despotism

#11 | Posted by LesWit at 2019-02-17 11:25 PM | Reply

I take that back. Some school official said it, not Alvarez. Not that it matters.

Alvarez was in the wrong in so many ways, and the school and the police handled this entirely wrong. The student was fully correct and they never should have exacerbated this situation because a dumbass substitute teacher doesn't know the law.

Absent her not knowing, the police damn well should know better.

"Forcing public school children to salute the flag or say the pledge has been unconstitutional since 1943, when the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette that it's a clear violation of free speech rights."

The Polk County School district told 10News that students aren't required to stand for the pledge, but the substitute didn't know that. The district said it is looking at how substitute teachers are trained, and that particular teacher won't be allowed back in any Polk County school.

www.orlandoweekly.com

www.wtsp.com

#12 | Posted by YAV at 2019-02-17 11:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#9 - no proof, only Alvarez' word on it, and she already lied. - #10 | Posted by YAV at 2019-02-17 11:22 PM
Where is it that she lied?
Also, if only there had been a room full of students and a school officer who would be able to give information on what happened...
Also, it wasn't the teacher who made the determination on arresting the child. Again, from the article:


The student was later charged with disruption of a school facility and resisting an officer without violence.

The Lakeland Police Department said in a news release that the student was not arrested for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

"This arrest was based on the student's choice to disrupt the classroom, make threats and resisting the officer's efforts to leave the classroom," the release said.

#13 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-02-17 11:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It's a start...

Time to leave the plantation...

www.youtube.com

www.youtube.com

#14 | Posted by Pegasus at 2019-02-17 11:55 PM | Reply

"The student was later charged with disruption of a school facility and resisting an officer without violence."

Our culturally and legally enforced state worship ritual is always an interesting commentary on the state's interpretation of freedom.

When we're students, we can be compelled to stand for the pledge of allegiance.
When we're adults, we get blackballed if we kneel during the pledge of allegiance.
I don't think either are compatible with freedom, in case that's not abundantly clear.

#15 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-18 12:00 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 7

True dat
The teacher responded by saying, "Well you can always go back, because I came here from Cuba, and the day I feel I'm not welcome here anymore, I would find another place to live."

#2 | Posted by homerj

Yeah, because an 11 year can just pack his stuff and move.

God damn righties are stupid as f---.

#16 | Posted by jpw at 2019-02-18 12:10 AM | Reply

"The affidavit stated that the student threatened to beat the teacher"

Right, so a state worker can tell you you're required to stand up when the state says you have to, and if you threaten to defend yourself from that coercion through coercive force of you're own, you're the criminal.

It's nice to see who the fascist are.
Let's keep this going.
Who else thinks it's compatible with a free state for a free state to require students to rise when the free state commands?

#17 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-18 12:10 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

...resisting an officer without violence.
#15 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

So when a cop is illegally arresting you, it's against the law to say "no". That is some serious Police State stuff there.

#18 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2019-02-18 01:08 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

So when a cop is illegally arresting you, it's against the law to say "no". #18 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2019-02-18 01:08 AM
It's a good thing then that we don't have any indication that the child was being arrested illegally. Instead, we see the child was arrested for disruption in the classroom, making threats, and resisting being removed from the classroom.
Phew.

#19 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-02-18 01:37 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Instead, we see the child was arrested for disruption in the classroom, making threats, and resisting being removed from the classroom."

As though the state didn't threaten the child first, with punishment for not complying with the state's order to stand.

#20 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-18 02:14 AM | Reply

...we don't have any indication that the child was being arrested illegally.
#19 | POSTED BY AVIGDORE

Perfect fodder for the Police State.

#21 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2019-02-18 06:21 AM | Reply

"Not Tampa - Lakeland."

Nuf said.

#22 | Posted by danni at 2019-02-18 08:11 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"It's nice to see who the fascist are. "

And you posted before Avigdore, you must have some ability to see the future.

#23 | Posted by danni at 2019-02-18 08:12 AM | Reply

Having a child arrested for not reciting a pledge to a flag is the ultimate honor to FREEDOM.

#24 | Posted by Nixon at 2019-02-18 08:13 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

""This arrest was based on the student's choice to disrupt the classroom, make threats and resisting the officer's efforts to leave the classroom," the release said."

And that Fascist believes them of course. Calling the police to deal with an 11 year old refusing to recite the Fascist pledge makes the teacher look like a.....Fascist.

#25 | Posted by danni at 2019-02-18 08:14 AM | Reply

"This arrest was based on the student's choice to disrupt the classroom

Considering the child's age, it sounds like the "disruption" was a direct result of a teacher trying to force him to recite a pledge of allegiance he didn't want to recite. The teacher should be fired, regardless of what the kid did next.

#26 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-18 08:35 AM | Reply

"Not Tampa - Lakeland."
Nuf said. #22 | POSTED BY DANNI

Haha, I came here to say this too. Polk county is like a slice of backwoods Alabama in central Florida.

#27 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2019-02-18 08:56 AM | Reply

#19 | POSTED BY AVIGDORE

How do you not see it? Just curious. I mean you have a student standing up for their American Rights to an adult authority figure. The authority figure denies the right and escalates by calling in the police and dean. Who apparently then continue to escalate the situation rather than deescalating and apologizing to the student as someone should have done. If anyone should have been arrested in this situation it was the teacher. We are talking about an 11 year-old child after all.

Hall him off to juvie and suspend him really? I think this kid is going to be rich.

#28 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2019-02-18 09:44 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

So, if a student is being disruptive should the school have no authority to remove the kid from the classroom?

This is partly on this kid's mom. He's obviously being brainwashed that this is a horribly racist country and while racism still exists this country has come an incredibly long way over the past few decades.

#29 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-02-18 10:21 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

--This is partly on this kid's mom.

And the rest on the leftist teachers who have turned schools into indoctrination camps.

#30 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-02-18 10:26 AM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

#29 | Posted by JeffJ

If the student was being disruptive sure. However, the student wasn't being disruptive. First it was the teacher then it was the other faculty and LE that caused the disruption. They escalated the situation - an apparent silent protest. What happens in cases like this? The student was exercising his rights and not harming anyone. It was the figures of authority who escalated and created a confrontation. Should he have just acted like a sheep?

As for your opinion on the mother and the state of racism in this country it is totally beside the point. The student has rights and was merely exercising them.

#31 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2019-02-18 10:29 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

I like how some people can't bring themselves to admit that the only adult in the room is at least particularly responsible for this turning into a "disruption" in the first place.

Here's an idea: If a kid doesn't want to say the pledge, just move on and say the pledge without him, and keep him after class is over to mete out whatever punishment is necessary. It's called staying in control of your classroom and not allowing every minor infraction to turn into a situation where security officers are involved.

#32 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-18 10:35 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

#31 | POSTED BY GALAXIEPETE

I completely agree that the teacher is ultimately at-fault. All this boy did initially was refuse to stand for the pledge. It's the teacher who initiated the altercation and in so doing a 9-year old boy became emotional and lashed out.

#33 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-02-18 10:47 AM | Reply

-became emotional and lashed out.

"Suspend me! I don't care. This school is racist," the student, who is black, told the dean as he walked out of the room with his backpack, according to the affidavit."

So much for freedom of speech. It was the teacher who disrupted the classroom. She could have said nothing and addressed any issue she had later with the principal and the student.

And she was just a substitute for F's sake. For all she knew he always sat quietly for the Pledge. What it sounds like is a typical case of a substitute teacher trying to change something in a class she might never see again.

#34 | Posted by Corky at 2019-02-18 11:32 AM | Reply

---- the teacher and the pigs in this situation.

#35 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2019-02-18 12:10 PM | Reply

"Here's an idea: If a kid doesn't want to say the pledge, just move on and say the pledge without him, and keep him after class is over to mete out whatever punishment is necessary."

There should be no punishment for not wanting to participate in the Pledge of Allegiance. It is meaningless if it is mandatory.

#36 | Posted by danni at 2019-02-18 12:28 PM | Reply

#36 I agree completely. But even if there is one, there's no reason for the teacher to turn it into a disruption.

#37 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-18 12:41 PM | Reply

Hopefully this kid gets a settlement just like Colin Kaepernick did.

#3 | Posted by snoofy

And what was that?

#38 | Posted by Sniper at 2019-02-18 12:42 PM | Reply

They have laws that compel you to recite the pledge?

#8 | Posted by chuffy

No they don't......... That wasn't the problem.

#39 | Posted by Sniper at 2019-02-18 12:44 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

And the rest on the leftist teachers who have turned schools into indoctrination camps.

#30 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2019-02-18 10:26 AM | REPLY

The article literally describes an illegal reprimand taken by a presumably conservative teacher (or substitute teacher), and Nulli still gets his panties wet over liberal teachers indoctrinating students. You can't make this ---- up.

#40 | Posted by dylanfan at 2019-02-18 01:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 6

This is partly on this kid's mom. He's obviously being brainwashed that this is a horribly racist country and while racism still exists this country has come an incredibly long way over the past few decades.

#29 | Posted by JeffJ

I hope you're joking.

You dont need to be brainwashed to see america is incredibly racist. If you're white, you have to WAKE UP from your brainwashing to see it.

Yeah we've made so much progress. It's not like cops are shooting black people anytime they feel scared. It's not like having a black president didn't drive half of america so insane that they elected a reality tv show con man to "take america back.". It's not like the current president sympathizes with nazis and klansmen. It's not like a bunch of red states immediately made it harder for minorities to vote as soon as the voting rights act was repealed. Otherwise all those things would be evidence of how extremely racist america, specifically the republican party, still is, and you'd look like a fool for posting something that stupid.

#41 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-02-18 01:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

-41 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

bla bla bla bla. And bla bla bla bla. Also, bla bla bla bla.

p.s. bla bla bla bla

#42 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-02-18 01:21 PM | Reply

bla bla bla bla. And bla bla bla bla. Also, bla bla bla bla.

p.s. bla bla bla bla

#42 | Posted by nullifidian

Do you still get paid if you put no effort into your russian propaganda?

#43 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-02-18 01:47 PM | Reply

Pretty sure my son told me that many kids in his Miami Dade shcool did not stand for the pledge for various reasons. No harm done. What´s the big deal?

#44 | Posted by CrisisStills at 2019-02-18 01:51 PM | Reply

#41 Speaks,

Are you suggesting racial progress has not been made over the past few decades?

#45 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-02-18 01:54 PM | Reply

Are you suggesting racial progress has not been made over the past few decades?

#45 | Posted by JeffJ

The civil right act was racial progress. Then the supreme court killed it, saying racism was over, and every red state immediately started trying to prevent minorities from voting. You tell me - is this racial progress?

Electing a black president was racial progress. Then all the racists elected the most racist man they could find with the explicit goal of undoing everything the black president had ever done, whether it was good policy or not. You tell me - is this racial progress?

#46 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-02-18 02:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

Are you suggesting racial progress has not been made over the past few decades?
#45 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Oh absolutely. And Donald Trump is the proof.

Idiot.

#47 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-02-18 02:03 PM | Reply

#46 So undoing the unilateral policies (executive actions) of a predecessor is racist?

If you can't see the net-racial progress made over the past few decades you either don't want to see it or are willfully blind to it.

#48 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-02-18 02:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Does "net progress" negate the child's point? He never said we aren't better than we were in the 50's. He just said we're a racist country. In many ways, he is right.

#49 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-18 02:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If you can't see the net-racial progress made over the past few decades you either don't want to see it or are willfully blind to it.

#48 | Posted by JeffJ

Nothing like a white guy telling us all how much better things are for black people.

Red states are participating in a nationwide coordinated minority voter suppression effort which was not happening 10 years ago, but we have a white guy here telling us it's getting better.

#50 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-02-18 02:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 8

10 years ago Trump was leading the Birther movement.

Now he's president of the United States.

Jeff is elated.

#51 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-02-18 02:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Does "net progress" negate the child's point?

Of course not. I think the kid was treated improperly in this incident.

He never said we aren't better than we were in the 50's.

OK. Speaks and Clown sure seem to be making that argument.

#52 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-02-18 02:27 PM | Reply

OK. Speaks and Clown sure seem to be making that argument.

#52 | Posted by JeffJ

We're making the argument that we're worse in 2019 than we were in 2009. Over DECADES we're doing better. Over A DECADE, we're doing worse.

With the nationwide coordinated attack on minorities voting your party has undertaken, and the election of the most racist bigot in a century, its impossible to deny.

#53 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-02-18 02:41 PM | Reply

#53

We'll have to agree to disagree about the last decade, but I do appreciate your clarification.

#54 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-02-18 02:42 PM | Reply

We'll have to agree to disagree about the last decade, but I do appreciate your clarification.

#54 | Posted by JeffJ

Yeah. We sure disagree.

I'm on the side that says repealing the voting rights act and preventing minorities from voting was bad for black people.

You're on the side that says it was an improvement for black people.

One of us looks like an idiot.

#55 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-02-18 03:09 PM | Reply

I'm on the side that says repealing the voting rights act

All that actually did was allow the Southern States to abide by the same set of rules as the Northern states.

preventing minorities from voting was bad for black people.

Except that empirical evidence shows that voter ID laws accomplish no such thing.

One of us looks like an idiot.

#55 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Look in the mirror and you'll see who that is.

#56 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-02-18 03:12 PM | Reply

All that actually did was allow the Southern States to abide by the same set of rules as the Northern states.

preventing minorities from voting was bad for black people.

Except that empirical evidence shows that voter ID laws accomplish no such thing.

One of us looks like an idiot.

#55 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Look in the mirror and you'll see who that is.

#56 | Posted by JeffJ

Southern states needed more supervision than northern states because they are run by racists. And immediately they all proved it because they all started trying to prevent minorities from voting.

If voter ID laws dont suppress minority votes, then why are all the racist-controlled states enacting them? If you answer "because of voter fraud" just delete that answer and type "because I'm a moron who believes in non existent problems" instead.

#57 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-02-18 03:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If voter ID laws dont suppress minority votes, then why are all the racist-controlled states enacting them?

Because they are overwhelmingly popular, even among minorities.

I live in Michigan and have to present my ID in order to vote. Is that due to racism too?

#58 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-02-18 03:27 PM | Reply

"So, if a student is being disruptive should the school have no authority to remove the kid from the classroom?"

You're ignoring the issue.

The state should have the power to compel students to stand for the purposes of worshiping the state, yes or no?

#59 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-18 03:30 PM | Reply

Because they are overwhelmingly popular, even among minorities.

I live in Michigan and have to present my ID in order to vote. Is that due to racism too?

#58 | Posted by JeffJ

Yeah just like the wall is overwhelmingly popular. Just gotta ask the right cult members.

In person vote fraud was not a problem ANYWHERE. States under repub control all enacted voting changes and voter ID laws as soon as the voting rights act was repealed. Do you think this was a coincidence?

#60 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-02-18 03:31 PM | Reply

"[S]trict identification laws have a differentially negative impact on the turnout of racial and ethnic minorities in primaries and general elections. We also find that voter ID laws skew democracy toward those on the political right."

www.journals.uchicago.edu

#61 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-18 03:31 PM | Reply

"I live in Michigan and have to present my ID in order to vote. Is that due to racism too?"

"[S]trict identification laws have a differentially negative impact on the turnout of racial and ethnic minorities in primaries and general elections."

Well, if the effect of a policy has a racially disparate impact, then it's racist, isn't it?

#62 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-18 03:36 PM | Reply

Photo ID required (strict): Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Mississippi, North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, and Wisconsin.

Photo ID requested (non-strict): Arkansas, Alabama, Florida, Hawaii, Idaho, Louisiana, Michigan, Rhode Island, South Dakota, and Texas.


www.google.com

Yeah just like the wall is overwhelmingly popular. Just gotta ask the right cult members.

Four in Five Americans Support Voter ID Laws, Early Voting

news.gallup.com

The state should have the power to compel students to stand for the purposes of worshiping the state, yes or no?

#59 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

No

#63 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-02-18 03:38 PM | Reply

So then this kid was simply acting in self-defense, JeffJ.

#64 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-18 03:42 PM | Reply

"Well, if the effect of a policy has a racially disparate impact, then it's racist, isn't it?

"Photo ID required (strict): Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Mississippi, North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, and Wisconsin.
Photo ID requested (non-strict): Arkansas, Alabama, Florida, Hawaii, Idaho, Louisiana, Michigan, Rhode Island, South Dakota, and Texas."

Was that a yes or a no?
Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Mississippi, North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, and Wisconsin are racist, yes or no?

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-18 03:43 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

See #33

#66 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-02-18 03:45 PM | Reply

Why do you put the teacher at fault?

An unjust law is not the fault of the person who enforces it.

It's the state which made the rules that says students can be compelled to stand. That's the state's wrongdoing. The government worker is just doing their job.

#67 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-18 03:47 PM | Reply

ews.gallup.com

The state should have the power to compel students to stand for the purposes of worshiping the state, yes or no?

#59 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

No

#63 | Posted by JeffJ

Funny, your poll also shows that voters overwhelmingly support automatic voter registration. If red states were just doing what voters wanted, why didnt they do that too?

#68 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-02-18 03:52 PM | Reply

It's the state which made the rules that says students can be compelled to stand. That's the state's wrongdoing. The government worker is just doing their job.

#67 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

I agree with you that it's terrible law. Students are not required to stand if they present the school with a letter from their parents. This isn't a statewide thing, only certain districts have imposed this.

law.fiu.edu

#69 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-02-18 04:00 PM | Reply

The title on this is ridiculous. While technically accurate, it's also accurate to say "Florida 6th Grader Charged After Waking Up." And about as fair to all involved. Whoever wrote that title should be ashamed for promoting fake news.

An accurate title would be "Florida 6th Grader Charged After Making Violent Threats." That is accurate, fair, and holds the subject accountable for his actions.

All he had to do was sit quietly and say no. That's it! Not even hard. Required less energy, but more discipline, than what he did. Make threats, and you belong in juvi. Can anyone really, honestly, disagree with that? Who among this group is making the argument "I want the people who threaten violence left in school left alone to continue that behavior."

No amount of adult "escalation" forced, required, or necessitated the child to threaten violence on the adults. That came from him. And most children do not threaten violence on adults when they are told to do something they don't want to do. So ... why does this kid think it's ok to threaten to hurt people, and why is anyone in their right mind saying he should be left in school to do that?

#70 | Posted by Merovigan at 2019-02-18 04:44 PM | Reply

When idiots meet, we all win.

Why is it so hard to admit the teacher and the kid were wrong?

#71 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2019-02-18 04:57 PM | Reply

Because the teacher didn't threaten to hurt the kid. So, even if they're both "wrong" - the kinds of things they did are apples and oranges. She expected him to act right. He expected her to back down when he threatened to hurt her.

Why is it so enticing to conflate (compare? treat as equivalent?) the idea of "I expect you to do what you're told" with "If you don't do what I want, I'm going to hurt you."

These are not even remotely the same sorts of wrong.
She is in a position of authority. She is acting in loco parentis.
He is a child, threatening to hurt people.

Not equivalent. That's probably why it's hard for people to "admit" the teacher was wrong.

#72 | Posted by Merovigan at 2019-02-18 05:10 PM | Reply

Why is it so hard to admit the law is wrong?

#73 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-18 05:25 PM | Reply

Mero,
The teacher didn't know the policy. Clearly the teacher was wrong.
Her wrong actions sent this into motion.

I hold the adult to a higher standard than an 11 year old child.
They were both wrong. It's pretty obvious to see.

#74 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2019-02-18 05:48 PM | Reply

101chAirborne,
It's good that you hold the adult to a higher standard than an 11 year old child. But, it doesn't change anything - her "wrong" was not knowing a rule in a new school. His "wrong" was threatening to physically harm people.

I go back to my earlier post: "the kinds of things they did are apples and oranges." If she had called him names? Different story. If she had threatened to hit him? Different story.

She misunderstood a policy, tried to enforce it, and was told that her future involved being physically harmed by this child. A threat he can still carry out. So tomorrow, when he gets to sit all smug and not stand for the flag (read: gets his way) she gets to worry about this kid, his family, his friends, beating her up.

I find it hard to "admit" the teacher is wrong, because that implies equity between these two people and their behavior, and one of them is clearly and obviously more dangerous than the other. One of them is to be defended as a victim, the other is to be prosecuted as an aggressor. I'm not sure, from your question, if you agree on which is which because you seem to want me to equate these two as "both wrong." But, I'm not going to victim blame here - maybe she made a mistake, but her mistake really wasn't that big of a deal.

What I don't understand is your apparent need to say "Oh yeah, well ... uh ... they both did something wrong!" What does that get you? Does that somehow mean she deserves to be threatened? "Hey, she didn't know the rules so it's on her that she's gotta be afraid of this kid now! Know the rules or get threats, --------!" Is that what you're about? It's ok that a kid did something wrong because the adult in the situation isn't a valid authority figure (must know EVERY rule!), so she deserves to be intimidated?

Help me understand.

#75 | Posted by Merovigan at 2019-02-18 06:17 PM | Reply

It doesn't get me anything. It's the truth. An obvious one.

Your last paragraph is really odd. What could possibly lead you to ask such stupid questions?

#76 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2019-02-18 06:31 PM | Reply

You're quite the dumbass, Metovigan. The kid's actions were a response to what the teacher did, not vice versa. And per the article, the only thing the kid did was "initially refused to leave the room, continued to be disruptive and made threats while being escorted to the school's office by the officer and the school's dean..

Proportionate? Perhaps not, but he's a child and he wasn't the instigator. I'd be proud of my kid for telling this teacher to go ---- herself.

#77 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-18 06:32 PM | Reply

101chAirborne,
Your behavior doesn't make sense, so I asked a question to get clarity. I have to imagine that if you're asking to have two things, that are clearly not equivalent, made to be so by saying "They both did something wrong!", you must just have some reasoning I don't understand. That was my attempt and discerning your reasoning.

Joe,
"Go eff yourself" isn't a threat of physical violence so yeah, I'd actually be ok with that too. But, that's not what this kid did.
And, I'm not too worried about you thinking I'm a dumbass since you can't even read and re-write my name correctly. Swing and a miss.

#78 | Posted by Merovigan at 2019-02-18 06:38 PM | Reply

I hold an adult to a much higher standard than an 11 year old kid.

#79 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-02-18 06:39 PM | Reply

But, that's not what this kid did.

You don't know what he did. The entirety of his conduct is described in the very short quote i posted above. You're rounding it up to "threatening the teacher" even though the quote states that any "threats" were made while the kid was being escorted to the office. So there's a decent chance any such threats were directed toward those doing the escorting.

But you keep right on comparing the acts of an 11 year old boy to those of a trained adult. I'm sure you're convincing someone, somewhere.

#80 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-18 06:54 PM | Reply

I'm just glad he didn't smile while wearing a MAGA hat. That would have made him the worst human being of all time.

😀

#81 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-02-18 06:58 PM | Reply

I'm just glad he didn't smile while wearing a MAGA hat. That would have made him the worst human being of all time.

😀

#81 | Posted by JeffJ

Any time someone puts on the modern day klan hood, they deserve all the public scorn they are instigating to receive.

#82 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-02-18 07:05 PM | Reply

Thanks Joe, I am sure I am as well. Also, it was several trained adults who (in the moment of that situation) all came to the same general conclusion that the kid was the problem. Now, we're after the fact and there's White Guilt Liberal Hand-Wringing to be done.

I did fill in the blanks with my own experience with how bad kids act when a substitute teacher comes to class. I think he's just your typical bad kid, who is using racism that happens to other people to excuse himself from behaving right. I find it pretty despicable, to be honest. Bespeaks bad character. Maybe he can improve but, it's not likely since his mom is reinforcing the behavior.

What we do know is he's seen the inside of a juvenile hall facility, and that's likely to keep happening to him now. So ... yeah ... maybe he should have just quietly left the classroom, huh?

Play stupid games; win stupid prizes.

#83 | Posted by Merovigan at 2019-02-18 07:08 PM | Reply

Merovigan,

You literally know nothing about this kid other than he acted up after being provoked by a substitute teacher. We don't even have video of this event to analyze.

#84 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-02-18 07:11 PM | Reply

Sec. Previous Hit25.082Next Hit. PLEDGES OF ALLEGIANCE; MINUTE OF SILENCE. (a) Repealed by Acts 2017, 85th Leg., R.S., Ch. 851 (H.B. 2442), Sec. 9, eff. June 15, 2017.

(b) The board of trustees of each school district and the governing board of each open-enrollment charter school shall require students, once during each school day at each campus, to recite:

(1) the pledge of allegiance to the United States flag in accordance with 4 U.S.C. Section 4; and

(2) the pledge of allegiance to the state flag in accordance with Subchapter C, Chapter 3100, Government Code.

(b-1) The board of trustees of each school district and the governing board of each open-enrollment charter school shall require that the United States and Texas flags be prominently displayed in accordance with 4 U.S.C. Sections 5-10 and Chapter 3100, Government Code, in each campus classroom to which a student is assigned at the time the pledges of allegiance to those flags are recited. A district or school is not required to spend federal, state, or local district or school funds to acquire flags required under this subsection. A district or school may raise money or accept gifts, grants, and donations to acquire flags required under this subsection.

(c) On written request from a student's parent or guardian, a school district or open-enrollment charter school shall excuse the student from reciting a pledge of allegiance under Subsection (b).

(d) The board of trustees of each school district and the governing board of each open-enrollment charter school shall provide for the observance of one minute of silence at each campus following the recitation of the pledges of allegiance to the United States and Texas flags under Subsection (b). During the one-minute period, each student may, as the student chooses, reflect, pray, meditate, or engage in any other silent activity that is not likely to interfere with or distract another student. Each teacher or other school employee in charge of students during that period shall ensure that each of those students remains silent and does not act in a manner that is likely to interfere with or distract another student.

Added by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 260, Sec. 1, eff. May 30, 1995. Amended by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 126, Sec. 1, 2, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.

Amended by:

Acts 2013, 83rd Leg., R.S., Ch. 881 (H.B. 773), Sec. 1, eff. June 14, 2013.

Acts 2013, 83rd Leg., R.S., Ch. 1140 (S.B. 2), Sec. 42, eff. September 1, 2013.

Acts 2017, 85th Leg., R.S., Ch. 851 (H.B. 2442), Sec. 2, eff. June 15, 2017.

Acts 2017, 85th Leg., R.S., Ch. 851 (H.B. 2442), Sec. 9, eff. June 15, 2017.

#85 | Posted by chuffy at 2019-02-18 07:13 PM | Reply

com·pel
/kəmˈpel/Submit
verb
force or oblige (someone) to do something.
"a sense of duty compelled Harry to answer her questions"
synonyms: force, coerce into, pressurize into, pressure, impel, drive, press, push, urge, prevail on; More
bring about (something) by the use of force or pressure.
"they may compel a witness's attendance at court by issue of a summons"
LITERARY
drive forcibly.
"by heav'n's high will compell'd from shore to shore"

#86 | Posted by chuffy at 2019-02-18 07:15 PM | Reply

Jeffj,
Nonsense. I know he was arrested. I know he threatened people. I actually DON'T know that he "acted up" because that's not a thing. Threatening people and refusing a valid order to leave the classroom are things, and he did them. Literally no one is questioning that. So ... yeah. There's what I do know.

#87 | Posted by Merovigan at 2019-02-18 07:16 PM | Reply

So ... yeah ... maybe he should have just quietly left the classroom, huh?

Sounds like the teacher is posting here. Yes, let's hyperanalyze he choices an 11 year old made and not the teacher, who could just as easily punished the kid after class (which he also wouldn't have deserved).

Also, it was several trained adults who (in the moment of that situation) all came to the same general conclusion that the kid was the problem.

All of which occurred after the teacher allowed it to become a situation in the first place via her own ineptitude.

#88 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-18 07:17 PM | Reply

Joe,
Hey - is it illegal to be Inept? Also - is ineptitude defined by not knowing one rule? Also, have you ever BEEN a substitute teacher? I hear it's ... hard.

He - committed crimes. She - did not.

Hey, we don't agree. I get it and I'm ok with it. You side with child criminals, I side with substitute teachers. It is what it is.

#89 | Posted by Merovigan at 2019-02-18 07:21 PM | Reply

Joe,
I mean all the OTHER kids are able to follow basic rules and not threaten to hurt people. But this teacher? She was SO bad, and her badness was only impacting this ONE kid, because it's HER fault. SHE is wrong.

Cool, I totally get it now!

#90 | Posted by Merovigan at 2019-02-18 07:23 PM | Reply

None of the other kids were disciplined for something that was within the rules, so it's understandable they didn't react the way this child did. It's astonishing i even need to write that out for you.

He - committed crimes. She - did not.

He - would be allowed back in that school had he not taken his money elsewhere. She - will not.

#91 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-18 07:28 PM | Reply

Joe,
So you consider it to be "understandable" that he threatened to hurt people, and refused to leave the room when asked to do so.

Interesting ... I'm not sure you're worth continuing to respond to.

#92 | Posted by Merovigan at 2019-02-18 07:33 PM | Reply

Sounds like someone is threatened by 11 year olds.

Prolly doodle-bugs, too.

#93 | Posted by Corky at 2019-02-18 07:35 PM | Reply

If you read that from my post, i know of an empty chair in a 6th grade reading course, though that might be too advanced for you.

#94 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-18 07:35 PM | Reply

You side with child criminals

Has he been convicted of anything? The article says that nobody in the district wanted to press charges. Is everyone taken into custody a "criminal" to you?

I side with substitute teachers

Yep. Stupid ones too. Is that some inferior version of the argument from authority fallacy?

#95 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-18 07:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Interesting ... I'm not sure you're worth continuing to respond to.

#92 | POSTED BY MEROVIGAN

After the BS you assign to people you're going with that?

#96 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2019-02-18 08:40 PM | Reply

I live in Michigan and have to present my ID in order to vote. Is that due to racism too?

Never should have been a law. It's beyond stupid and appeals to people that have no clue how voting works. And yes, it's to control the racial demographic's power - so it is racist.

#97 | Posted by YAV at 2019-02-18 09:48 PM | Reply

"If you can't see the net-racial progress made over the past few decades you either don't want to see it or are willfully blind to it."

Hey JeffJ.
Do you see any net racial progress made since Jan 20, 2017, or is it going backwards?
How about from Jan 20, 2009 to Jan 20, 2017?

#98 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-18 09:55 PM | Reply

Leave it to Snoofy to try and make this racial.

If Lebron gets called for a foul in a hoops game it's racist according to Snoofy.

#99 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-02-19 01:41 AM | Reply

[Voter ID][n]ever should have been a law.

But it is and, on its face, is constitutional. The question now is how the law is applied. That's a work in progress.

#100 | Posted by et_al at 2019-02-19 02:06 AM | Reply

I'm just glad he didn't smile while wearing a MAGA hat. That would have made him the worst human being of all time.
😀

#81 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Or the best.

I mean, if he was a white kid who the preists in his parish routinely ass raped he would have had spots on every morning show the day after it happened.

#101 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2019-02-19 02:20 AM | Reply

"Leave it to Snoofy to try and make this racial."

Earlier,

He's obviously being brainwashed that this is a horribly racist country and while racism still exists this country has come an incredibly long way over the past few decades.
#29 | Posted by JeffJ

#102 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-19 02:39 AM | Reply

But it is and, on its face, is constitutional. The question now is how the law is applied. That's a work in progress.

Voting is a right, with illogical and stupid ID restrictions (and more) - thanks to "conservatives."

Which I will constantly remind my representatives about when it comes to gun laws.

The 2nd is not special.

#103 | Posted by YAV at 2019-02-19 06:56 AM | Reply

The adult was in charge. The adult is responsible for the outcome.

The child is 11 years old. Any adult that is in charge of 11 year olds should know you cannot "force" them to do anything.

The adult could have easily diffused the situation by many means and chosr instead to confront the child. Who happened to be within his rights.

The results are on the adults who made bad rules and then tried to enforce them regardless of human rights. If the teacher had not tried to force the child to violate his own beliefs and instead had tried to deal with it offline or in a more reasonable way the situation would have been defused.

Ruling is in favor of the child. Who was brave enough to resist fascist authority at great risk to himself.

He should actually get an award for bravery.

#104 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-02-19 10:35 AM | Reply

Here is the rest of the story.

The arrest report stated that the school resource officer arrested the boy after he refused to follow multiple commands, repeatedly called school leaders racist, and caused a disruption.

During the ruckus, the boy allegedly threatened to have the school principal and resource officer fired. He also reportedly threatened to beat the teacher.

#105 | Posted by Sniper at 2019-02-19 11:42 AM | Reply

#106 - so what?

The adults started this. The adults exacerbated it. The adults acted unlawfully. The adults then used the "law" (in the form of police power) to rationalize and justify their own bad behavior and the obvious expected result.

#106 | Posted by YAV at 2019-02-19 12:23 PM | Reply

I imagine the school district will be subject to a civil suit over this.

dumb dumb dumb

#107 | Posted by eberly at 2019-02-19 12:31 PM | Reply

"The arrest report stated that the school resource officer arrested the boy after he refused to follow multiple commands, repeatedly called school leaders racist, and caused a disruption."

Look at what a good little fascist Sniper grew up to be!

#108 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-19 12:48 PM | Reply

One of us looks like an idiot. - #55 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-02-18 03:09 PM
I'm betting it is the one lying about the repeal of the voting rights act.

#109 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-02-19 12:53 PM | Reply

None of the other kids were disciplined for something that was within the rules, so it's understandable they didn't react the way this child did. It's astonishing i even need to write that out for you. - #91 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-18 07:28 PM
I don't see any evidence of him being disciplined for something that was within the rules. He doesn't appear to have been disciplined for not standing for the pledge, only for his refusal to leave the classroom and threats of violence. Can you point out what led you to believe that he was disciplined for something that was within the rules, maybe I missed it?

#110 | Posted by Avigdore at 2019-02-19 01:09 PM | Reply

Can you point out what led you to believe that he was disciplined for something that was within the rules

"If living in the United States is "so bad," why not go to another place to live? substitute teacher Ana Alvarez asked the student, according to a handwritten statement from her. "They brought me here," the boy replied. Alvarez responded by saying, "Well you can always go back, because I came here from Cuba, and the day I feel I'm not welcome here anymore, I would find another place to live." She then called the school office, as she did not want to keep dealing with the student, according to the statement.
www.washingtonpost.com
I consider having the school office called to remove you from the room to be "discipline." If you don't, then feel free to substitute the term "reprimanded" or "removed from class." I'm not engaging any further in your mindless pettifogging.

#111 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-19 03:21 PM | Reply

Of course you don't.

Blind as a bat.

Search "1943" just on this thread and see if you can figure it out.

#112 | Posted by YAV at 2019-02-19 03:22 PM | Reply

#111 - good idea, Joe.

#113 | Posted by YAV at 2019-02-19 03:23 PM | Reply

Nothing like a white guy telling us all how much better things are for black people.

I'm a black guy, I tell them my experiences all the time. I get called Uncle Tom for it.

Things in the U.S. are nothing like they were in the 50's, 60's. Or the 70's. Our kids will never know what that's like again. That in itself is progress.

Now we have blacks looking behind every rock for perceived racism and even using personal preference to be racist. If you dont date black women, or wouldnt consider dating one, you are a racist. Never mind you arent racist, your preference isnt black women for whatever reason, you are still racist.

The pendulum has swung in the direction of blacks for decades. Now that racism is almost stamped out, blacks are looking to make the race superior to ever other one, as you can see and white liberals are eating it up.

My question is, if blacks are saying the black race is superior, is it much different from white supremacists?

#114 | Posted by boaz at 2019-02-19 04:11 PM | Reply

Much respect, Boaz! You get Uncle Tom? I get House N*****.

I'm half-black, and both blacks that claim racism for being told to act right, and whites who lower their expectations for blacks piss me off. Race doesn't matter - just act right (get up and leave the room when you're told to do so) and expect others to do the same. Simple. One standard, no matter race, class, gender, etc.

Now that racism is almost stamped out, blacks are looking to make the race superior to ever other one, as you can see and white liberals are eating it up.
This is always the way of oppression. The oppressed always becomes an oppressor. That's part of the evil that is oppression - the oppressed takes the wrong lesson from it. Rather than learning that oppression is wrong, and should never be done, they seem to learn that it's the way of things and fight to become an oppressor of others.

#115 | Posted by Merovigan at 2019-02-19 04:39 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Never too early to start that school to prison pipeline.

#116 | Posted by fresno500 at 2019-02-19 05:38 PM | Reply

Comments are closed for this entry.

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