Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, February 12, 2019

Because our lives seem so unstable, poor people are often seen as being basically incompetent at managing their lives. That is, it's assumed that we're not unstable because we're poor, we're poor because we're unstable. So let's just talk about how impossible it is to keep your life from spiraling out of control when you have no financial cushion whatsoever. And let's also talk about the ways in which money advice is geared only toward people who actually have money in the first place.

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From 2014, but I don't know if the lives of these folks are any better now.

#1 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-02-11 11:55 PM | Reply

Why Poor People Stay Poor?

Junk food.. which leads to bad health and bad decision making. Yes, it warps the thinking process.

Single parent families... no stability. Increased possibility of abuse. etc

Credit cards... no need to explain.

Drug use... no need to explain.

Faith in Idiot... like DOTARD... no need to explain.

etc etc

#2 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 01:02 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

In fact, the better question to ask is, "Why do Asians have more money"?

en.wikipedia.org

Pakistani Americans (Urdu: پاکستانی نژاد امریکی‎) are Americans whose ancestry originates from Pakistan or Pakistanis who migrated to and reside in the United States. The term may also refer to people who hold dual Pakistani and U.S. Citizenship. Educational attainment level and household income are much higher in the Pakistani-American diaspora in comparison to the general U.S. population.

Pakistani Americans are classified as Asian Americans by the United States Census Bureau with the exception of Pashtuns, Kalash, and Burusho, who are classified as White.
---------------------

So according to idiots in the United States Census Bureau, I am "white", not Asian.... lol. But point stands.

#3 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 01:16 AM | Reply

The Pakistani American community generally lives in a comfortable middle-class, upper-middle-class and upper-class lifestyles. Many Pakistani Americans follow the residence pattern set by other immigrants to the United States that when they increase their wealth, they are able to own or franchise small businesses; including restaurants, groceries and convenience stores, clothing and appliance stores, petrol and gas stations, newspaper booths, and travel agencies. It is common to include members of the extended and immediate family in the business.

Members of the Pakistani community believe in the symbolic importance of owning homes; accordingly, Pakistani Americans tend to save money and make other monetary sacrifices earlier on in order to purchase their own homes as soon as possible. Members of the family and sometimes the closer community tend to take care of each other, and to assist in times of economic need. Hence, it would be more common to turn to a community member for economic assistance rather than to a government agency. This leads to relatively low use of welfare and public assistance by Pakistani-Americans. According to the 2000 census, the mean household income in the United States in 2002 was $57,852 annually, whereas for Asian households, which includes Pakistanis this was $70,047.
------------------------------

1. Purchase you own home... NEVER mortgage it.
2. NEVER ask the Govt or a Bank for a loan or help of any kind. Use Islamic finance only.

These are the two most important things. Once you ask the Govt for help, you are DONE. See this:

www.youtube.com

Allah bless this man... he was right.

#4 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 01:36 AM | Reply

Car payment, house payment, tuition payment.

If you're so poor you never try for any of those, you get punished with a poor credit rating, having to put down a deposit to open a utility account, even the banks charge you just to maintain an account if you drop below a few hundred dollars.

Money is analogous to what farming provided primitive society and got us to where we are today. A chance at stability and being able to work on long term projects and building settlements instead of just following the herd and living hand to mouth.

#5 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-12 01:47 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Poor people stay poor (outside a very few cases such as serious injury, etc) because they make a lifetime of bad choices which typically prioritize near term happiness at the expense of long term happiness. With Democrat policies not discouraging this behavior, we continue to get more and more poor people as a result.

#6 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-12 02:02 AM | Reply | Funny: 4 | Newsworthy 1

"because they make a lifetime of bad choices"

Everyone makes bad choices.

When you're rich, you can pay to make the consequences of your bad choices go away.

Your sick little morality play about bad choices is an affront to human decency.

But it's perfectly in line with Trump beliefs, where the way to Make America Great Again is to hurt the people who need to be hurt.

#7 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-12 02:12 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 7

#7 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Snoofy, you are not a loser today because of one bad choice, you are a loser because of nearly daily poor choices. You could have educated yourself, you chose to stay in your mom's basement. You could have gone out for a walk or got exercise, you chose to eat junk food and play on the internet. You could have interacted with people in real life and actually gained people skills, you chose to live like a shut in. You made these poor choices and continue to make them. That is why you stay a loser.

#8 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-12 02:37 AM | Reply

Everyone makes bad choices.

Ummm... no they don't.

A bad choice would be having that leftover cabbage for breakfast. Not the kind many white people make (I don't know any black or Mexican people.. though I have seen a few shuffling along in the distance). White people make "bad choices" the size of the iceberg that did in the Titanic.

Why? Because they don't believe in a family structure where the financial wisdom of the older generation would trickle down to the younglings.

#9 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 02:39 AM | Reply

Basically... I don't care how non-PC this sounds... but financial health often depends on the strength of your family and extended-family and the larger community.

White folks, on the other hand, do not believe in families. They would rather shag a new person every weekend or turn gay or never get married..... well, this is the result.

It is all about stability.

#10 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 02:45 AM | Reply

And then there is the drugs use... both legal and illegal....

I also include "beer" in drug use.

#11 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 02:57 AM | Reply

and religion, don't forget religion.

#12 | Posted by ichiro at 2019-02-12 03:32 AM | Reply

Yes. The Christian religion LOVES people who suffer in poverty. Explains why Mexicans are happy being poor.

Asian religions.. specially Islam, Buddhism and Shinto... have no such nonsense.

#13 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 03:39 AM | Reply

"#7 | POSTED BY SNOOFY
Snoofy, you are not a loser today because of one bad choice, you are a loser because of nearly daily poor choices. You could have educated yourself, you chose to stay in your mom's basement. You could have gone out for a walk or got exercise, you chose to eat junk food and play on the internet. You could have interacted with people in real life and actually gained people skills, you chose to live like a shut in. You made these poor choices and continue to make them. That is why you stay a loser."

No doubt, but the topic is poverty, not being a loser.

I can afford to keep doing all the loser things you just described, until I die, and it will be a sad day for the mmo community, unlike when a poor person dies.

#14 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-12 04:00 AM | Reply

Posted by J_Tremain

What a pathetic joke you are.

#15 | Posted by Angrydad at 2019-02-12 06:59 AM | Reply

Yes. The Christian religion LOVES people who suffer in poverty. Explains why Mexicans are happy being poor.
Asian religions.. specially Islam, Buddhism and Shinto... have no such nonsense.
#13 | POSTED BY J_TREMAIN

This ranks up there as one of the dumbest things that I have ever read on the internet. First, there is not a single rich Muslim country outside of those that bring in the US to pump their oil. I don't know if it is Islam that makes/keeps people poor but given the Middle East has gone from a great science/research producer pre-Islam to complete reliance on the Christian West to keep their lights on, I think Islam played a major role. Don't get me wrong, the nasty tradition of marrying 1st cousins in countries like Pakistan is playing in role in this as well, but the sub 50% literacy rate that spans Muslim countries from Africa to Asia pretty much guarantees these will always be 3rd world ---------.

That said, the countries of the Christian West have built the greatest countries the world has ever known with technological advances that would be considered magical just 200 years ago. Is this because they were Christian or because they were culturally or genetically superior is a matter up for debate.

Lastly, the religion even worse than Islam for poor people is Buddhism where the people are taught they suffer to make up for sins in past lives - thus, any effort to eliminate suffering will simply prolong the length of your punishment. It is probably the most destructive policy imaginable and a big reason why Tibet was so terrible prior to the Chinese liberating the people from their land-owning masters.

#16 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-12 07:02 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#15 | Posted by Angrydad

"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.".. original quote by Tremain, stolen by Yoda.

OR

Your little darling ran off with a greaser. Being an angry Dad is too little too late.

Please find some other person to direct your anger at than poor old me. Thanks?

#17 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 07:07 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

the nasty tradition of marrying 1st cousins in countries like Pakistan

Ah yes... I was wondering about you.

Here is another NEW sock puppet of TOR/SPORK/HIENRICH. LOL

Disregarded.

#18 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 07:09 AM | Reply

Is this because they were Christian

It's because they have a proud imperialist tradition. DUH

For example the only reason Scotland is part of the United Kingdom is because a hell of a lot of resources from British Raj India, were used to make sure Scotland doesn't walk away.

However the momentum they got from all that thievery is starting to run out.

#16 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-12 07:02 AM | Reply | Flag: Rest of the long post is unintelligible gibberish

#19 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 07:15 AM | Reply

the nasty tradition of marrying 1st cousins in countries like Pakistan
Ah yes... I was wondering about you.

- So you have been educated before on why is it not desirable from a genetics perspective to breed with your 1st cousin? The English royals offer a great exhibit as well so it is not solely a Pakistani thing. But, the Pakistan community in places like the UK are now so interbred that genetic disorders are becoming the rule rather than the exception. However, if you think genetic abnormalities and IQ deficits lift people out of poverty, then by all means, continue this tradition.

#20 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-12 07:17 AM | Reply

And here is one more reason why poor people remain poor.

They create sock puppets!

#21 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 07:21 AM | Reply

We can all see the furious reaction when he is caught. LOL

#22 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 07:21 AM | Reply

We can all see the furious reaction when he is caught. LOL
#22 | POSTED BY J_TREMAIN

Yes, your furious reaction to my post strongly hints at you giving your 1st cousin mustache rides.

#23 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-12 07:24 AM | Reply

....YAWN...

#24 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 07:27 AM | Reply

"Lastly, the religion even worse than Islam for poor people is Buddhism where the people are taught they suffer to make up for sins in past lives - thus, any effort to eliminate suffering will simply prolong the length of your punishment. It is probably the most destructive policy imaginable and a big reason why Tibet was so terrible prior to the Chinese liberating the people from their land-owning masters.
POSTED BY NOBIASPOSTER101 AT 2019-02-12 07:02 AM"

That's an interpretation about Buddhism that I'm unaware of.
It sounds like you're confusing Buddhism with Hinduism/karma.

Would you provide something to support what you claimed about Buddhism?

#25 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2019-02-12 07:30 AM | Reply

....YAWN...
#24 | POSTED BY J_TREMAIN

That's what she said?

#26 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-12 07:30 AM | Reply

Would you provide something to support what you claimed about Buddhism?

He is just making up crap as he goes along. Nothing that comes out of TOR/SPORK's mouth as any connection to reality.

#27 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 07:36 AM | Reply

The fact is... if Muslim countries are poor, it's not because of any religion... it is because of no democracy. Democratic muslim countries are doing well enough. The non-democratic ones have oil and are some of the richest on the planet.

I was talking about Asians who are US citizens before a ---- puppet tried to distract us. To repeat:

According to the 2000 census, the mean household income in the United States in 2002 was $57,852 annually, whereas for Asian households, which includes Pakistanis this was $70,047.

That does not happen by accident. There is a reason for that.

That reason is "Asian Values".

#28 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 07:40 AM | Reply

This thread is about why are poor Americans poor.

Stick to topic sock puppet.

#29 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 07:41 AM | Reply

#29 | Posted by J_Tremain The truth is values and work habits have more to do with success than race or anything else. Immigrants from Jamaica and Sub Saharan Africa do much better than native blacks financially.

#30 | Posted by docnjo at 2019-02-12 07:51 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The fact is... if Muslim countries are poor, it's not because of any religion... it is because of no democracy. Democratic muslim countries are doing well enough. The non-democratic ones have oil and are some of the richest on the planet.

- What democratic Muslim country is doing well? I see nothing but poor people wiping with bare hands.

the mean household income in the United States in 2002 was $57,852 annually, whereas for Asian households, which includes Pakistanis this was $70,047.

- LOL. You are trying to latch South Asians in with the high performing East Asians? In the US, we currently have the best and brightest Pakistan has to offer and they are barely middle of the road and way, way behind Indian Americans.

That does not happen by accident. There is a reason for that.

No, it doesn't. It was the disastrous combination of Islam and interbreeding which has caused this this under performance.

Here is a little wake up call for you, the average GDP per capita of the world's Muslim countries is $3,600. That means the average Muslim is equivalent to someone living in Papua New Guinea. Real advanced there Tex!

#31 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-12 07:58 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

The truth is values and work habits have more to do with success than race or anything else.

True.

But some cultures have acquired (for any number of reasons) better work habits.

Immigrants from Jamaica and Sub Saharan Africa do much better than native blacks financially.

Also true.

Wow... I agreed with DOCJOJO for the first time!

#32 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 08:00 AM | Reply

#31 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-12 07:58 AM | Reply | Flag: Bla Bla Bla I am Sock Puppet Bla Bla Bla

#33 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 08:00 AM | Reply

Real advanced there Tex

LOL... see this NEW guy knows I'm from Texas.

I haven't mentioned it for months.

Sock Puppet....

#34 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 08:03 AM | Reply

You are trying to latch South Asians in with the high performing East Asians?

No. It's the US Census Bureau that sez it. DUH

Moron sock puppet.

Let us repeat to counter your sock puppet lie:

#3 | Posted by J_Tremain:

Pakistani Americans (Urdu: پاکستانی نژاد امریکی‎) are Americans whose ancestry originates from Pakistan or Pakistanis who migrated to and reside in the United States. The term may also refer to people who hold dual Pakistani and U.S. Citizenship. Educational attainment level and household income are much higher in the Pakistani-American diaspora in comparison to the general U.S. population.

#35 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 08:32 AM | Reply

"Educational attainment level and household income are much higher in the Pakistani-American diaspora in comparison to the general U.S. population."

Like I already wrote, we took the best and the brightest that Pakistan had to offer leaving you in your -------- country with sub 50% literacy and even these US Pakistanis are barely treading water. Here is the real number without India, Filipinos and East Asians bring up the "Asian" Number:

Pakistani American : $44,677, the 85th richest ethnic group in the US (en.wikipedia.org)

Yeah, that is straight from Wikipedia. As you don't actually live in the US, I can understand you mistakenly believing some study from 2002, but the data simply does not agree with you and your ethnic group ranks right near the bottom (85 out of 96 ethnic groups)

Oh, and before you attack Wiki as some kind of biased source, their data is from the US Census.

Sorry Tex.

#36 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-12 08:46 AM | Reply

....YAWN..... sock puppets.... YAWN.....

#37 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 08:52 AM | Reply

You school drop-out....

Do you understand the difference between MEAN average income and MEDIAN income?

Apparently not.

And it's not my job to explain. LOL

#38 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 08:58 AM | Reply

Do you understand the difference between MEAN average income and MEDIAN income?

Apparently not.

See? This is exactly what I was saying in this thread.

These people from broken homes have no capacity for education because of lack of stability in their lives. They are not going places, let me tell you.

Can't understand the difference between Mean Average and Median Average.... hahahahahahahahahaha

#39 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 09:05 AM | Reply

Do you understand the difference between MEAN average income and MEDIAN income?
#38 | POSTED BY J_TREMAIN

Yes, I do. Apparently you do not. But, please continue to embarrass yourself by trying to pretend that Pakistanis are excelling in the USA when the US census says you you have no clue.

But, by all means please tell us the mean household income for Pakistanis and how that compares to the other ethnic groups as I have already provided.

#40 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-12 09:09 AM | Reply

Nobiasposter and our resident "Texan", tremain.

The DR version of giant douche and turd sandwich.

#41 | Posted by jpw at 2019-02-12 09:11 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

The DR version of giant douche and turd sandwich.
#41 | POSTED BY JPW

SJ(P)W popping up - did someone forget to flush? Tremain probably still has remnants of you on his left hand.

#42 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-12 09:24 AM | Reply | Funny: 2

our resident "Texan"

Just sticks in your throat, don't it? LOL

Yes, I do.

No, you do not. Or you won't continue to insist I was mistaken. I quoted MEAN AVERAGE. You came up with a list of MEDIA AVERAGE. LOL

EE

DEE

YUT

And JPW is correct... I have said what I wanted to say. No need to monopolize this thread.

#43 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 09:43 AM | Reply

MEDIAN AVERAGE.. it is simply the middle value of a range of values.

Look up the difference between that and MEAN AVERAGE. Or go back to school.. if they'll still take you. LOL

#44 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 09:45 AM | Reply

MEDIAN AVERAGE.. it is simply the middle value of a range of values.
Look up the difference between that and MEAN AVERAGE. Or go back to school.. if they'll still take you. LOL

#44 | POSTED BY J_TREMAIN

Yeah, and with large data sets, it is considered a much more representative number. Which is why pretty much ever statistical measure of income provided will use it over mean.

#45 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-12 09:58 AM | Reply

by all means please tell us the mean household income for Pakistanis and how that compares to the other ethnic groups as I have already provided

A separate study conducted by the American Community Survey in 2005, showed the mean and median incomes for Pakistani male full-time workers were US$59,310 and US$42,718 - respectively compared to the average male American full-time workers' mean and median incomes of US$56,724 and US$41,965 - respectively.

Pakistanis are a new Asian group compared to Chinese who have been here for over a century. They have started pulling ahead and the speed will increase.

Whatever the figures, you won't find them pumped full of drugs or whoring around town or with broken families. Those disasters happen with black people most of all, as I understand it. And then look at the level of misery in the black community. It's a sad thing that white folks are so desperate to follow the black pattern.
--------------

You could easily have looked this up.

Why did you ask ME to do it?

Because you STILL don't get the difference between MEAN AVERAGE and MEDIAN... bloody dropout. LOL

#46 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 10:01 AM | Reply

Some are poor because they can't see their way out.
Some are poor because they never really had opportunity.
Some are poor because they choose to be.
Some are poor because of burdens piled up on them that no one is willing to help them carry.
Some are poor because they are ill.
Some are poor because of bad choices.

The ones that matter the most are the ones who really want to make a living for themselves but something external is holding them back.

Grouping all poor people together in the same bucket is stupid.

#47 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2019-02-12 10:01 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

and with large data sets bla bla bla....

Please. Enough already.

I caught you comparing apples to oranges. Now don't make it worse.

#48 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 10:02 AM | Reply

Grouping all poor people together in the same bucket is stupid.

Trump does it all the time.

Are you calling Trump stoopid?

#49 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-12 10:03 AM | Reply

Not just Trump..

#50 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2019-02-12 10:14 AM | Reply

"The ones that matter the most are the ones who really want to make a living for themselves but something external is holding them back."

I agree with you.

Today's America is not set up to allow people to escape poverty. The anecdotes from success stories are the exception and not a common path everyone can follow.

#51 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-02-12 11:02 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Poor people stay poor because they lack wealthy relatives.

#52 | Posted by getoffmedz at 2019-02-12 12:03 PM | Reply

Most Rich people are rich because someone gave it to them.... like Trump

#53 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2019-02-12 12:17 PM | Reply

Biggest reason poor people can't climb out of poverty....landlords raising rents. Thus they can't save to buy a home. Homes represent the largest asset most working people have but if you can't safe up for a down payment you can take advantage of that stable mortgage payment which will seem smaller and smaller as inflation slowly raises income.
Renters though will see their rent rise faster than inflation raises their pay.

#54 | Posted by danni at 2019-02-12 12:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#54 | POSTED BY DANNI

High rents are largely connected to supply and demand. The most significant cause of increases in rent, in most markets, is simply a shortage of market rate housing. Although I think in some markets a lot of housing remains empty for lack of interest in renting it out below a certain price point.

I own a number of rentals. I can tell you, if there are several comparable rentals available, I'm going to charge less to get tenants. And if I have half a dozen tenants looking at the same rental, first I'm going to look at their previous history. Second I'm going to take the tenant with the best history, who will pay the most. Unfortunately, for most property owners it's just that simple.

Before you chastise me, while I am a landlord, I've also been working to encourage developers to build more affordable housing. Our local economy can't improve if there's no affordable place for our workers to live. If you'd like to see rents go down, you need to start encouraging more development of affordable housing in your area. At least in my locality, construction for the last few years has mostly and deliberately focused on higher end housing, because that's where the best profit margins are.

#55 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2019-02-12 01:26 PM | Reply

"Immigrants from Jamaica and Sub Saharan Africa do much better than native blacks financially.
#30 | POSTED BY DOCNJO"

They were probably doing better financially before they emigrated too. This is what gave them the opportunity to emigrate in the first place.

#56 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-12 01:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Actually there are many who were born and raised in poverty, but with drive and determination rose above it.

#57 | Posted by MSgt at 2019-02-12 01:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

In addition, there are many who were born and raised in poverty, but with drive and determination didn't rise above it.

#58 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-12 01:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#58 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2019-02-12 01:37 PM | FLAG: You are just assuming that those have drive and determination. Also, I wonder how many are left behind due to our public school system's failure to actually educate.

#59 | Posted by MSgt at 2019-02-12 01:59 PM | Reply

"Immigrants from Jamaica and Sub Saharan Africa do much better than native blacks financially."

"Actually there are many who were born and raised in poverty, but with drive and determination rose above it."

"They were probably doing better financially before they emigrated too. This is what gave them the opportunity to emigrate in the first place."

Allow me to offer a third point of view. My wife is Jamaican. Her family on both sides were dirt poor and lived in Trench Town. Prior to Jamaican Independence they were able to emigrate to England (most of her family did this) before moving to the US around 1970. She's spoken about how there is a difference between black people who have migrated her over the last 50 years or so and people who are descendants of slaves and how her people don't necessarily internalize the racism they experience on a regular basis the same way the descendants of slaves often do. This is not to put new immigrants on a pedestal above those who trace their roots in this country back hundreds of years but on the contrary, to point out and acknowledge the damage that slavery did to their culture and their ability to thrive in this country.

#60 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-02-12 02:21 PM | Reply

Actually there are many who were born and raised in poverty, but with drive and determination rose above it.

#57 | Posted by MSgt at 2019-02-12 01:34 PMFlag: (Choose)FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusive

"Drive and determination" and one other thing.... Opportunity - something that is vanishing. 40- 50 years ago a person could expect to be able to support themselves on a high school education. Not so much today.

#61 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2019-02-12 02:26 PM | Reply

50
I agree that they don't have the same baggage, but baggage none the less.

I don't know if you can speak on this, but do African Americans think less of your wife because she's not African American?
My wife works with blacks from Africa and they dislike our black people because they are told they aren't really black and are inferior. The man and woman are pretty successful and there could be jealousy at play, but even the other black people at work claim they aren't real black people...yet they are literally from Africa...

#62 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2019-02-12 02:32 PM | Reply

I was hoping to see a good thread. Instead, I see one with J Tossoff all over it.

no thanks......

#63 | Posted by eberly at 2019-02-12 02:32 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I see what Hispanics and Muslims do here to succeed when they first arrive. Pool resources, run a business, live together in one house, share one car, etc and then open more businesses.
There's opportunity, but you have to look for it and take it. Nobody is going to give it to you.

You have to advocate for yourself. A chip on your shoulder only works if you do something other than whine about life not being fair.
Dropping out of high school, going to jail, and having babies when you are a teen aren't recipes for success unless you can rap or play ball.

#64 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2019-02-12 02:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"do African Americans think less of your wife because she's not African American?"

Not incredibly common but it happens. Moreso when she was younger and more activist minded some would criticize her commitment to the cause because she couldn't identify with their struggle. Now that she's a doctor with a 20 year career behind her and multiple television and news appearances everybody claims her as one of their own.

#65 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-02-12 02:36 PM | Reply

-I was hoping to see a good thread. Instead, I see one with J Tossoff all over it.

no thanks......

Yep, he ruined it by spamming the hell out it.

#66 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-02-12 02:38 PM | Reply

#47 | Posted by lfthndthrds. I have seen poor people get rich and rich people getting poor, wealth is fleeting. The reality is people with bad lifestyles don't get rich, or stay rich. The only ones that can have the luxury of being responsible are the truly wealthy, Kennedy, Soros, Walton, or Koch Brother wealthy. Trust bums are a real thing. They are usually the third generation wealth. Check our the tax laws under legacy endowments. You can get a few million and have a nice income from the interest on that account and never pay tax on that trust except for the money they spend. If they have Municipal bonds, they pay no tax at all.

#67 | Posted by docnjo at 2019-02-12 02:42 PM | Reply

"Also, I wonder how many are left behind due to our public school system's failure to actually educate.
#59 | POSTED BY MSGT"

Our schools are designed to fail because of reliance on the local tax base for funding.

Poorer neighborhoods have lousy schools, richer neighborhoods have great schools.

Some people like it that way.

They see it as hurting, educationally, the people that need to be hurt.

#68 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-12 06:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

My wife and I have seen really bad times, unemployment, unable to pay rent, car payments, etc.... about 5 years ago I found God, Faith and family. We started to go to church hoping our $25.00 check to the church wouldn't bounce. but, through Faith and guidance we are doing well now. Faith through JC helped us....and continues to help us, because we now know the true value of helping others

to me helping others, even when you are down and out, makes a BIG difference

helping others is all around us, but we all need to open our eyes and see

#69 | Posted by Maverick at 2019-02-12 08:26 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Our schools are designed to fail because of reliance on the local tax base for funding.
#68 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Okay, then explain CA where education funding is coming from the state and the school system has become an utter failure. Basically, when schools were locally funded, there were good and bad schools. With state funding, they are all now terrible.

Here is my solution - if you have an elected office, your children must attend a public school within your district. No more private Washington DC private schools for government employees.

#70 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-12 08:42 PM | Reply

"Okay, then explain CA where education funding is coming from the state and the school system has become an utter failure."

There's about 500 school systems in California.

They're not all utter failures, are they?

#71 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-12 08:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

There's about 500 school systems in California.
They're not all utter failures, are they?
#71 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

From #1 in the nation in the 1970's to near the bottom says failure is the rule now, at least much more so than when funding was locally done. So, your premise is wrong - you want to address that fact?

#72 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-12 08:53 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"at least much more so than when funding was locally done."

Funding is still locally done.

#73 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-12 08:58 PM | Reply

Funding is still locally done.
#73 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

In CA? No.

#74 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-12 09:04 PM | Reply

Guess we'll agree to disagree about that one, then.

#75 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-12 09:36 PM | Reply

Guess we'll agree to disagree about that one, then.
#75 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

You are not disagreeing with me. You are disagreeing with reality.

#76 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-12 10:05 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

www.ppic.org

Financing California's Public Schools
Local property taxes 22%.
Other local 10%.

Game Over.

#77 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-12 10:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Economic mobility is poor in the United States compared to EU countries and absolutely fabulous compared to India. This begins with
the unequal distribution of resources between poor and rich neighborhoods, which impedes the education of the poor. The possibility of improving your position is set back even more severely with judicial policies which punish the poor and blacks more than white rich people for the same crime. One felony on your record, whether legitimate or not, is a tremendous obstacle to getting a good job. Republicans have piled on more obstacles by breaking unions and cutting social safety and public transportation systems, which only poor people use. When you are poor, everything is more difficult, access to credit, getting to work, having a car and fixing it, a house is out of the question. In the jobs you can get you must work harder for less and thus have less energy at the end of the day to improve oneself.

#78 | Posted by bayviking at 2019-02-12 10:16 PM | Reply

Giving birth in this country at an early age, whether by rape or consent, your chances of elevating your social status are severely limited. Once again compared to the EU, the support given to pregnant women and mothers in this country is pathetic but very good compared to India. Republicans know this and seek to limit sex education and eliminate abortion in order to maintain a healthy stock of poo people to easily exploit.

#79 | Posted by bayviking at 2019-02-12 10:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#70 | POSTED BY NOBIASPOSTER101

CA education became terrible under the same policy that made education terrible nationally; "No Child Left Behind".

The California UC and CSU programs are still some of the best colleges in the nation. Whatever State-approved .ru domain you got your asinine belief that California education is the worst in the nation from has clearly mislead you.

#80 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2019-02-12 10:57 PM | Reply

www.ppic.org
Financing California's Public Schools
Local property taxes 22%.
Other local 10%.
Game Over.
#77 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Which is then equalized by state funding to solve the problem you outlined above. Despite this, it solved nothing and simply dragged down the higher performing schools. You leftists never learn from your failures for some reason. Another great example, per student funding in Detroit Vs any other Michigan city. It is not a matter of local funding so you invest more. It is a matter of the performance not being correlated to the level of funding.

#81 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-12 11:18 PM | Reply

CA education became terrible under the same policy that made education terrible nationally; "No Child Left Behind".

It actually sank, quite a bit after Prop13 and Prop58 ...

But thanks for your naive input DrJones..

#82 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-02-12 11:23 PM | Reply

CA education became terrible under the same policy that made education terrible nationally; "No Child Left Behind".
The California UC and CSU programs are still some of the best colleges in the nation.
#80 | POSTED BY INDIANAJONES

Nope, it has been suffering since they pulled funding to the state level for equalization. The UC system has nothing to do with this as that is funded by tuition payments. I went to Stanford so I worked a lot with UC Berkeley students and faculty. They were amazing and very few the product of the CA public schools for k-12.

#83 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-12 11:23 PM | Reply

#82 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

I know hearing Spanish makes you piss yourself in fear, but that definitely wasn't it.

But thanks for your naive input, mackris.

#84 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2019-02-12 11:31 PM | Reply

naive and xenophobic*

#85 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2019-02-12 11:31 PM | Reply

I know hearing Spanish makes you piss yourself in fear
#84 | POSTED BY INDIANAJONES

I think it is more in anger when you hear it in the public schools because of all the children of illegals lack basic skills so too many resources are diverted to English as a Second Language programs

#86 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-12 11:34 PM | Reply

I know hearing Spanish makes you piss yourself in fear, ~ DrJones

LOL dream a little dream DrJones, I live in San Jose CA, I have heard, read it and spoken it since a little tyke...

Its not the "spanish" I fear, its the lack of people to serve me and my outrageous salary ...

#87 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-02-12 11:54 PM | Reply

naive and xenophobic*

#85 | POSTED BY INDIANAJONES

You are out of ammunition, "reload"....

#88 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-02-12 11:55 PM | Reply

scontent.fhhr1-2.fna.fbcdn.net

#89 | Posted by MSgt at 2019-02-13 12:55 AM | Reply

When you're rich, you can pay to make the consequences of your bad choices go away.

#7 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2019-02-12 02:12 AM | REPLY | FLAG:MMMMHHHMMMMM

Which is why Roe v. Wade was such a great social equalizer.
Sad but true.

#90 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2019-02-13 04:57 AM | Reply

Lots of factors discussed on this thread most all of which play some part in some peoples poverty. Lfthnd said it well in #47.

One reason I have not seen mentioned but have observed in my wife. If you are raised poor you are intimidated by wealthy people. That makes it hard to succeed when you are afraid to interact with the people who could help you most.

Poverty is neither easily understood nor easily fixed because there is no one size all cause or solution. Even in a single person there might be multiple causes and issues which have to be addressed.

#91 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2019-02-13 06:15 AM | Reply

"The unequal distribution of resources between poor and rich neighborhoods, which impedes the education of the poor."

That's not really true. Baltimore spends an incredible amount of money on education, yet the schools still perform very poorly.

All the money in the world isn't going to change a lack of parental involvement or inattention.

Even if you take one of these poor kids and stick him in an elite school, it's not just the education that's going to matter. It's being around a class of people who are being prepped for success at school and at home.

#92 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-02-13 06:16 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"One reason I have not seen mentioned but have observed in my wife. If you are raised poor you are intimidated by wealthy people."

That's an interesting statement. By far, the wealthiest people in my life are best characterized as Carhartt wearing rednecks who started successful businesses. If you ran into them at Wal Mart, you'd never know that they had millions. I could see your point with regards to those who grew up very wealthy, because their habits are likely to be far different than you or I. I wouldn't have the first clue what do to or wear at the MET Gala...but I also don't really care. And it's not those who were born wealthy that have the most to offer...it's those who made their money on their own.

#93 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-02-13 06:21 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"By far, the wealthiest people in my life are best characterized as Carhartt wearing rednecks who started successful businesses."

A nice little tidbit of anecdotal nonsense.

In reality, by far, the wealthiest people everywhere were born that way.

#94 | Posted by Angrydad at 2019-02-13 06:42 AM | Reply

"In reality, by far, the wealthiest people everywhere were born that way."

Really?

That's the conclusion your exhaustive research has led you to?

Or are you just making ---- up.

#95 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-02-13 06:48 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

#95 | Posted by madbomber

Try a little research, junior.

#96 | Posted by Angrydad at 2019-02-13 06:54 AM | Reply

Or are you just making ---- up.

He's making ---- up.

Try being a little less angry.. dad.

#97 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2019-02-13 07:10 AM | Reply

In reality, by far, the wealthiest people everywhere were born that way.
#94 | POSTED BY ANGRYDAD

That has not been my experience. Now, I don't deny there are successful people that were born with money but the richest people that I met usually came from upper middle class families. Their father was usually a mid-level manager that saved money and pressed his kids to excel at school. In this group, there were also a ton of stay at home moms. The fathers usually had college degrees from non-elite state schools and worked for the same companies for many, many years. I think this stability played a big role in the children excelling at school.

Like I mentioned already, I went to school in the Bay Area so most people that had money that I met went to elite schools and then went to work in tech. My time pre-dated the software, social media boom so most made their money by starting hardware focused businesses. A big part that made them successful was going to elite schools where they made very valuable personal networks so when they wanted to start their business, they knew where and how to get funding. This is probably the exception due to the industry, but you don't see idle rich starting tech companies or doing venture capital investment/banking. You see people that are hungry and that are willing to put in the time and effort to be someone great.

Even in the case of Trump, I would bet that he works longer hours than 99% of the US population. It would have been very easy for him to coast on inheritance money but he didn't. That fact that he doesn't drink probably gives him an extra 15 hours/week in productivity compared to this website where it is easy to tell that many post while in a drunken stupor.

#98 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-13 07:25 AM | Reply

it's not those who were born wealthy that have the most to offer...it's those who made their money on their own.

#93 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER AT 2019-02-13 06:21 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

Says the Trumper! Ha!

#99 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-02-13 07:29 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

That has not been my experience.

Nobody cares about your alleged "experience." He was making a generalization. Do you know the difference between that and an anecdote?

#100 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-13 07:33 AM | Reply

Nobody cares about your alleged "experience."
#100 | POSTED BY JOE

Wow, angry this morning. Did JPW leave without kissing you good bye or something?

#101 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-13 08:06 AM | Reply

"Haha you're mad"
"Haha you're gay"

Wow, epic retort dude

#102 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-13 08:14 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

I own a number of rentals...

#55 | POSTED BY WHATSLEFT

You are quite the capitalist!

#103 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-02-13 12:28 PM | Reply

"Because our lives seem so unstable, poor people are often seen as being basically incompetent at managing their lives."

Sigh. Generalizing is always a bad thing when you are trying to describe a reason for something. Poor people are often seen as being basically incompetent at managing their lives because there is ample evidence that they are. It doesn't mean all of them. It just means enough are bad at it that they are labelled. Sorry for the honesty, but it happens to everyone no matter what race, sex, religion, etc. they are. But, here's another viewpoint to consider, poor people get labelled because people who have been poor in the past see the ones who are poor AND incompetent and realize that they are, indeed, incompetent. There are people who get out of poverty, and it's actually not that low of a number. It's not high or perfect by any means, but it isn't the epidemic the media wants everyone to believe.

#104 | Posted by humtake at 2019-02-13 12:36 PM | Reply

It's not high or perfect by any means, but it isn't the epidemic the media wants everyone to believe.
#104 | POSTED BY HUMTAKE

It is for what this country is capable of doing for those that are incompetent.

Let me ask you this, would you rather the poor be incompetent and sustained or incompetent and homeless?

There's one thing that can be addressed for these people, but unfortunately incompetency isn't it.

#105 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2019-02-13 12:43 PM | Reply

"Poor people stay poor (outside a very few cases such as serious injury, etc) because they make a lifetime of bad choices "

Voting Republican is at the top of that list.

#106 | Posted by Nixon at 2019-02-13 01:07 PM | Reply

In reality, by far, the wealthiest people everywhere were born that way.

#94 | POSTED BY ANGRYDAD AT 2019-02-13 06:42 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

www.bankrate.com

#107 | Posted by Nixon at 2019-02-13 01:10 PM | Reply

"Even in the case of Trump, I would bet that he works longer hours than 99% of the US population."

Did you mean plays golf longer hours than 99% of the US population?

Or are you counting golf as work hours?

#108 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-13 03:39 PM | Reply

"All the money in the world isn't going to change a lack of parental involvement or inattention."

Money would change it if the reason for lack of parental involvement is the parent is at work, or in jail because their best economic opportunity was criminal enterprise.

#109 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-13 03:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Even in the case of Trump, I would bet that he works longer hours than 99% of the US population.

Hahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

*breathes*

AAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

#110 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-13 03:57 PM | Reply

"Try a little research, junior."

I have.

Forbes compiles a list of the richest Americans. Only a handful of them were born rich. Unless you're coming from a position where, if you're born in America, you're born rich. That's a valid point...if that's a point you were trying to make.

Furthermore, it's pretty well documented that even the wealthiest familes see their wealth decline as the amount of wealth is not able to grow fast enough to support a family that is expanding at an exponential rate. The Vanderbilts, for instance, didn't have a single millionaire in the family by 1973.

I'm going to give you the same advice I give my subordinates. If you don't know what you're talking about, then don't talk.

Sometimes it's best to not talk...allow yourself to preserve a little credibility.

#111 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-02-13 07:56 PM | Reply

"Says the Trumper! Ha!"

What is a "Trumper?"

#112 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-02-13 07:58 PM | Reply

"Money would change it if the reason for lack of parental involvement is the parent is at work, or in jail because their best economic opportunity was criminal enterprise."

You're adorable Snoofy.

#113 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-02-13 08:03 PM | Reply

Okay. I'm also right.

#114 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-13 09:17 PM | Reply

How is it that people migrate here from Asian countries with no money, and within a few years have a successful small business, or some sort of decent job and kids getting good grades? Asians have the lowest unemployment rate... well below whites. And many of them came from poverty when they or their parents or grandparents first came to America.

#115 | Posted by Idependant97 at 2019-02-13 11:46 PM | Reply

How is it that people migrate here from Asian countries with no money, and within a few years have a successful small business, or some sort of decent job and kids getting good grades?
#115 | POSTED BY IDEPENDANT97

East Asians have an average IQ of 106. I would wager the ones that immigrate here are probably on the top end of the bell curve so those here are even higher than that 106. Pair that with traditional family values and you get successful people.

#116 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-14 12:18 AM | Reply

"How is it that people migrate here from Asian countries with no money, and within a few years have a successful small business, or some sort of decent job and kids getting good grades? Asians have the lowest unemployment rate... well below whites. And many of them came from poverty when they or their parents or grandparents first came to America."

It's not just Asians...many immigrants come here poor before creating a nice life for themselves.

Almost all of us experience poverty at some point in our lives. But staying poor requires a determination to stay that way. and now you have helpful politicians making poverty great again by promising lavish benefits, even for those who have no interest in working.

#117 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-02-14 05:47 AM | Reply

#116 and 117- "Blacks are dumb and want to be poor"

Just head to your rally already.

#118 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-14 06:41 AM | Reply

Just head to your rally already.
#118 | POSTED BY JOE

Do you really want to deny the reality of IQ? You want to state that it plays an insignificant role in predicting success in today's highly technical world? You really want to claim that IQ is constant across all racial groups (despite every study every produced stating that is not the case) and that proper pre-natal care so that you real your full genetic potential does not exist? You Leftists are a bunch of science deniers.

#119 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-14 06:54 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Opportunity, natural abilities, aptitude, intelligence, temperament, family connections, and last but not least just how willing a person is to compromise basic rules of decency and fairness.

Let's not forget just plain luck.

#120 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2019-02-14 07:38 AM | Reply

study every produced stating that is not the case)

Post them.

proper pre-natal care so that you real your full genetic potential does not exist?

I actually agree with that. Too bad we have a third world healthcare system in America.

#121 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-14 08:04 AM | Reply

I have watched the Cuban community of Miami since the days of the huge influx in the 1980's because of the Mariel Boat Lift. I watched them live in a tent city under an I-95 overpass and then slowly blend into the community. The accumulation of wealth they have managed to gain is sort of amazing. One thing I did notice was that they put the accumulation of capital before the need for nice apartments, cars, etc. They lived in houses with others, who shared their experience, to defray living expenses thereby allowing them to save and then start a business or educate themselves. I've noticed that many immigrant groups use this same strategy which most Americans don't. We are so used to always owning a car, having our own apartment or house, with all the expenses associated with both that it prevents us from saving. I think saving money is the basic key, either save money or understand that if you don't your standard of living is not going to change. When I see guys with big expensive trucks and a job that isn't exactly high paying it demonstrates my thoughts about wealth accumulation and white male resentment of immigrants.

#122 | Posted by danni at 2019-02-14 08:55 AM | Reply

#116 and 117- "Blacks are dumb and want to be poor"
Just head to your rally already.

#118 | POSTED BY JOE

Race-bating and a straw man all bundled together in 2 sentences. Nicely done!

#123 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-02-14 09:52 AM | Reply

#123 Tell me how my post wasn't an accurate summation of those i referenced. I'll wait.

#124 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-14 09:54 AM | Reply

I mean, Nobiasposter is on record saying blacks have a naturally lower IQ, and madbomber said staying poor "requires a determination to stay that way."

So, again, tell me how 118 was a strawman.

#125 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-14 09:57 AM | Reply

madbomber said staying poor "requires a determination to stay that way."...which is racist, how?

#126 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-02-14 10:02 AM | Reply

study every produced stating that is not the case)
Post them.
#121 | POSTED BY JOE

Try to hold back your SJW gag reflex and go read the Bell Curve. It is just data - data isn't racist, it is just data. In terms of genetics vs. environment, I suggest that you read the results of the Minnesota twin studies. The have identical twins raised separately in homes of varying income levels, race of the parents, etc. The results are that IQ is primarily genetic in nature outside of negative impacts on development due to mal-nourishment or inadequate pre-natal care.

This is actually a debate long over due as the equal opportunity = equal results has been proven false over and over again. Rather than reject your SJW hypothesis, you simply chalk up all the results to some sort of systematic racism. We need to move the discussion from equality (equal opportunity/access) to equity (equal outcomes). I don't think systematic racism is responsible for the under-performance of certain groups - certainly, culture can play a role, but fundamentally it is a matter of IQ differential.

So, this brings us to affirmative action. I actually support it. I don't want any class of people to fall behind and become marginalized. However, no amount of equal access/opportunity is going to provide for equal outcomes as shown in the widening gaps in net worth in the US over the last 50 years. Basically, the more technical the world becomes, the more IQ is an advantage to acquiring wealth, hence I would fully expect a widening wealth gap over the coming years unless a social equity policy is put into place.

#127 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-14 10:26 AM | Reply

which is racist, how?

You're right, saying black people want to be poor isn't racist at all. I suppose if you ignore the entire context of this conversation and pretend his remark was made in a vaccuum, that might be a fun little game for you to play.

#127 Just post the "study after study" you referenced above; i'm not reading all your drivel.

#128 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-14 10:40 AM | Reply

#127 Just post the "study after study" you referenced above; i'm not reading all your drivel.
#128 | POSTED BY JOE

archive.org

Every single statistic has its source cited. Again, the studies have been done and the conclusions have been drawn. If you want to argue that IQ is not a 'real thing', we can have that debate. If you want to debate that IQ does not lead to different outcomes (correlation of IQ to achievement), we can have that debate. However, stating that you have never seen a study that shows the difference in race/IQ is simply a lie on your part where you choose to remain uneducated to avoid having your SJW beliefs destroyed.

#129 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-14 10:51 AM | Reply

Again, the studies have been done and the conclusions have been drawn.

Not so fast, dummy. www.vox.com

If you want to argue that IQ is not a 'real thing', we can have that debate.

I never made that argument, though in your case it may be true.

#130 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-14 10:57 AM | Reply

stating that you have never seen a study that shows the difference in race/IQ

I never stated that either. I asked you to post the studies you relief upon. So far you've linked to one entire book. Got anything else?

#131 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-14 10:59 AM | Reply

Joe,

Plenty of poor black people have lifted themselves to prosperity. Ben Carson (who you probably loathe) is a prime example.

Again, Madbomber's comment had nothing to do with race. That you made it racial, well...

#132 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-02-14 11:07 AM | Reply

Not so fast, dummy. www.vox.com
#130 | POSTED BY JOE

I linked to a book with 60+ source studies. You try to debunk it by linking to an opinion piece in Vox? Seriously?

#133 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-14 11:10 AM | Reply

#133 | POSTED BY NOBIASPOSTER101

This work is also good debunking the notion that genetics is not a primary factor as well as showing that the differences in IQ across races is persistent regardless of which test they used.

www1.udel.edu

Again, we can now shift the discussion to equity rather than equality, that is the debate that needs to occur.

#134 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-14 11:18 AM | Reply

Madbomber's comment had nothing to do with race.

In the context of the back and forth that was occurring, it absolutely did, and you should be embarrassed for suggesting otherwise when anyone can just go read what was being talked about.

#135 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-14 11:24 AM | Reply

You try to debunk it by linking to an opinion piece in Vox?

The authors of the extensive piece i linked to address many of the claims made in your book. It seemed like a good way to advance the discussion, but you're just here to play STS.

#136 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-14 11:25 AM | Reply

I didn't follow the entire discussion. I only reacted to what I saw from you.

I'll scroll up and read through it.

#137 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-02-14 11:26 AM | Reply

The authors of the extensive piece i linked to address many of the claims made in your book. It seemed like a good way to advance the discussion, but you're just here to play STS.
#136 | POSTED BY JOE

You linked to an opinion piece and declared the debate over. That is moronic. It is simply indefensible to claim that differences in IQ are 100% attributed to environment and every major study of IQ points that out.

Do you accept that IQ has some greater than 0% component that is genetic in nature? If you do, then I don't see how you can argue against my original post. So, again, the debate is on equity, not equality and that is the basis on which I support affirmative action.

#138 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-14 11:40 AM | Reply

You linked to an opinion piece and declared the debate over.

When did i declare the debate over? Seriously, show me where.

This is why nobody engages you, btw. You literally just make ---- up, constantly

#139 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-14 11:46 AM | Reply

It is simply indefensible to claim that differences in IQ are 100% attributed to environment and every major study of IQ points that out.

Now show me where i said that. I'll wait.

#140 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-14 11:47 AM | Reply

It is simply indefensible to claim that differences in IQ are 100% attributed to environment and every major study of IQ points that out.
Now show me where i said that. I'll wait.
#140 | POSTED BY JOE

You disagreed with my original post and called me a racist - that would not follow logically if you believed anything other than IQ was 100% environmentally driven. Did you fail logic 101?

#141 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-14 11:51 AM | Reply

You disagreed with my original post

No, i asked for your source. And i do think you're a racist.

Anything else?

#142 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-14 12:04 PM | Reply

No, i asked for your source. And i do think you're a racist.
Anything else?
#142 | POSTED BY JOE A

Pot calling the kettle black unless you want to state that IQ is 100% driven by the environment.

#143 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-02-14 12:13 PM | Reply

Joe,

I just read through Madbomber's comments - I saw absolutely nothing that could be considered racist.

Maybe you can point me to something and explain how you construed it to be such?

#144 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-02-14 12:26 PM | Reply

I can't believe how intentionally ignorant some people are. At that point, the conversation was about genetic differences between blacks and other races that lead to poverty. Madbomber thensaid that staying poor requires a determination to stay that way. I read that as meaning that black people are determined to stay poor, a perfectly valid reading based on the context of the conversation. I personally find such a statement to be racist.

Is my position really so difficult to understand that you required this walkthrough?

#145 | Posted by JOE at 2019-02-14 12:39 PM | Reply

Joe,

The problem is you are attributing NOBias's words to Madbomber.

At best that's guilt by association. In reality it's flat-out dishonest.

#146 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-02-14 12:42 PM | Reply

"Madbomber thensaid that staying poor requires a determination to stay that way."

Let me clarify...you're a ------- ------ because you choose to be. Having never put eyes on you, I have no idea whether you're white, black, green, plaid, paisley, or otherwise.

The only definitive conclusion I can come to with regards to you is that you're a ------- ------. And that's based solely on your determination to post ------ed comments.

Keep it up. Maybe you can surpass Dirk as the most mindless contributor.

#147 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-02-14 08:07 PM | Reply

-keep it up

He will. What else does lil joe have?

#148 | Posted by eberly at 2019-02-14 08:11 PM | Reply

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