Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, February 10, 2019

The average tax refund from the IRS dropped 8.4 percent in the first week of the 2019 filing season compared to the same period last year, according to agency statistics. The dip, to $1,865 from $2,035, is an early barometer of the season, which is being watched more closely than usual because it reflects the first full year under the 2017 tax overhaul and comes on the heels of a protracted government shutdown that hit the IRS just as it was gearing up for the annual exercise.

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Does that have anything to do with the amount they withold? I haven't had a refund for nearly 15 years.

#1 | Posted by Sniper at 2019-02-10 11:09 AM | Reply

"Does that have anything to do with the amount they withold?"

Yes, in all cases except when refundable credits are triggered, like the Earned Income Tax Credit.

Ultimately, when someone else asks why you got a refund, but he didn't, the answer is "I had more withheld than you did."

There's no magic in the equation: if your liability is $1000, and you had $800 withheld, you'll owe $200. If you had $1300 withheld, you'll get a $300 refund. Your liability isn't affected by the amount withheld.

#2 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-02-10 11:41 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Rs wanted all the trumplings to think they got a tax cut so they jiggered withholding tables in such a way that trumplings got bigger paychecks. Now that the elections is past the bill comes due. Now if you're rich your tax bill really did go down. Not that it matters much what your bill is. Rs have cut the IRS budget so much that for rich people taxes are pretty much voluntary.

#3 | Posted by SomebodyElse at 2019-02-10 12:21 PM | Reply

I haven't had a refund for nearly 15 years.

#1 | POSTED BY SNIPER

It might help if you got a job.

#4 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2019-02-10 01:50 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Well now... that really does make for bad visuals.

#5 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2019-02-10 01:58 PM | Reply

#2 - That was a very clear explanation, Danforth. Thank you.

#6 | Posted by Spork at 2019-02-10 04:35 PM | Reply

I think this is funny... people said they changed nothing and are now paying more... then some guy comes out and says they were getting it all along...but it showed up in their weekly paychecks... $40 here $20 there subtle... but it was there.

So now we get the lectures from the "tax experts" who tell them that instead of spending that extra paycheck bonus on things ... they should have had it deducted and at the end of the year.... only to not get it back... when their complaint is they were used to getting a refund and not having to pay...because what they paid before was more than sufficient.

sounds like a shell game to me.

#7 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2019-02-10 05:07 PM | Reply

I got a whopping $30 more a month in my paycheck in 2018, and now my refund is going to be over $5,000 lower.
Thanks for nothing, Trumpvoters. Fools.

#8 | Posted by e1g1 at 2019-02-10 06:48 PM | Reply

As for me, I'm making a killing this time around. Mostly because I've had a lot more withheld this year than I needed to. So much so that I may reduce the withholding for this coming year. Lucky me.

#9 | Posted by moder8 at 2019-02-10 07:19 PM | Reply

Get this: While the 1% are enjoying their tax cut The IRS rules have been changed so that if you move to a new job you can no longer deduct those moving expenses, unless you were moved by military order. I'm starting my taxes today and just figured that out. As far as I can tell they are now taxing social security too. I received a letter from SS in January claiming SS is not taxed. WTFIGO What a fracking crime the Republican tax cut is. A crime against 99% of ALL working Americans.

#10 | Posted by bayviking at 2019-02-10 10:33 PM | Reply

As for me, I'm making a killing this time around.
#9 | POSTED BY MODER8 AT 2019-02-10 07:19 PM | FLAG: No, just getting your own money back as you've overpaid.

#11 | Posted by MSgt at 2019-02-11 01:06 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Less people overpaying the government is now a bad thing..

#12 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-02-11 07:20 AM | Reply

" I received a letter from SS in January claiming SS is not taxed. WTFIGO What a fracking crime the Republican tax cut is. A crime against 99% of ALL working Americans."

SS taxes are taxable depending on your overall income. If you work and collect SS you will owe taxes on the additional income and that income can also push you into a higher bracket. That is why, when I started collecting SS, I had my job start witholding and additional $50.00 per week on top of the $50.00 per week extra I already had them withholding. Last year I ended up owing $7.00, I don't know about this year yet.

#13 | Posted by danni at 2019-02-11 08:39 AM | Reply

"As far as I can tell they are now taxing social security too. I received a letter from SS in January claiming SS is not taxed."

The letter was bogus. SS is taxable, if your other income is $25K or more.

But that started with the 1986 Reagan tax code.

#14 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-02-11 09:05 AM | Reply

"I got a whopping $30 more a month in my paycheck in 2018, and now my refund is going to be over $5,000 lower.
Thanks for nothing"

Nothing? You're going to get an additional tax bill for $11,000 per household taxpayer.

But regarding your bottom line this year, if you're $5K off, there is something else in the works. It's not just the new tax code.

#15 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-02-11 09:07 AM | Reply

Lower refunds are effecting the economy

Who could have predicted that people with less cash will spend less cash?

#16 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-02-11 09:51 AM | Reply

It sucks they tax folks who receive SS and can work on top of that.

what makes my SS income (I'm only 50...just thinking ahead) subject to tax because I work when my neighbor doesn't have to pay because he doesn't work?

if we earned the same benefit, we should effectively get the same benefit.

#17 | Posted by eberly at 2019-02-11 10:07 AM | Reply

I would love for one of our resident tax experts to explain something to me:

One of the biggest gripes about the new tax law was that it created a loss in revenue (using static scoring and not dynamic scoring, of course).

Unless huge swaths of people changed their withholding (highly unlikely) as a result of this new law, shouldn't the average refund have increased if overall tax revenues are down?

#18 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-02-11 10:13 AM | Reply

Wealthy Taxpayers Screaming About Lost Deductions Under Trump Tax "Cuts"

A $1 million-plus wage earner came to her tax preparer last weekend to see what the Trump tax cuts, which went into effect for the 2018 tax year, would mean for her tax return due April 15. And boy, was she disappointed. Last year, she deducted $245,500 in real estate taxes, state income taxes and personal property taxes. This year her deduction for these state and local taxes was limited to just $10,000, because of the new SALT cap.

-------
Funny how so many people here on the Drudge Retort just blatenly ignore that many rich people are paying more in taxes now. Just because the tax rate was lowered (and was lowered less than low income tax rates were lowered - yall ignore that as well) doesn't mean they pay less in taxes. By all but eliminating a major source of deductions, their actual effective tax rate went up.

Neglecting to tell the whole truth is still a lie...unless it is because you're ignorant.

www.forbes.com

#19 | Posted by Idependant97 at 2019-02-11 10:58 AM | Reply

It sucks they tax folks who receive SS and can work on top of that.
what makes my SS income (I'm only 50...just thinking ahead) subject to tax because I work when my neighbor doesn't have to pay because he doesn't work?
if we earned the same benefit, we should effectively get the same benefit.

#17 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2019-02-11 10:07 AM | REPLY |

You can thank Ray gun and the Republicans for taxing your SS benefits.

Winning!!

#20 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-02-11 11:13 AM | Reply

Unless huge swaths of people changed their withholding (highly unlikely) as a result of this new law, shouldn't the average refund have increased if overall tax revenues are down?

#18 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2019-02-11 10:13 AM | REPLY

They changed the witholding so that claiming the same amount resulted in less being taken out of each check. So you got an average of $1.50/week more in your take home pay but because of other changes your refund decreased by $300-500.

Winning

#21 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-02-11 11:16 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"shouldn't the average refund have increased if overall tax revenues are down?"

Yes.

But in an act of bad faith, the White House reduced the withholding amounts MORE than they reduced the taxes, so the tax "cut" would look bigger than it really is.

Folks got an additional $10-$20 per week more than the cuts called for. While it's easy to argue folks got that money, up front, it's also easy to argue the deal between taxpayers and the withholding tables has been violated.

#22 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-02-11 11:59 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"what makes my SS income (I'm only 50...just thinking ahead) subject to tax because I work when my neighbor doesn't have to pay because he doesn't work?"

Sideline income.

#23 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-02-11 12:01 PM | Reply

I got an oddly large amount last year, almost triple my normal amount. This year, I'm back down to what I make almost every year. So it seems like my weekly bump in pay is my only benefit, but it was a decent amount so I'm happy. I'm sure those who make the average and below may get the shaft though :-(

#24 | Posted by humtake at 2019-02-11 12:35 PM | Reply

This is what's needed to make people understand how much unfunded liabilities cost. This should be done with single payer, make every pay a tax and not let them get the money back in a refund, you know? Like actually paying for something....

But that feeling of having to pay money is what democrats want to keep away from their base, but they dont care how it feels to everyone else.

#25 | Posted by boaz at 2019-02-11 01:20 PM | Reply

#25 What the ---- was your inbred ass trying to say with that bilious mess of words?

#26 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2019-02-11 01:33 PM | Reply

- how much unfunded liabilities cost

You mean like Trump's tax cuts to the wealthy and big corps... finally, Boaz sees the light!

#27 | Posted by Corky at 2019-02-11 01:33 PM | Reply

By unfunded liabilities Boaz means the things that the republicans don't like, are entirely self funded, but whose funds were borrowed and used to fund things that were actually unfunded and now the GOP wants to transfer the debt to the source of the funds

#28 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-02-11 01:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

There's no such thing as "self funded".

#29 | Posted by boaz at 2019-02-11 03:56 PM | Reply

Sure there is. SS takes in more than it pays out. That is self funded

#30 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2019-02-11 04:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

30 - Say that in 15 years.

#31 | Posted by homerj at 2019-02-11 10:48 PM | Reply

We require immigration to keep it solvent.

#32 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-11 10:50 PM | Reply

We require immigration to keep it solvent.
#32 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Ergo, unsustainable ....

#33 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-02-11 10:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

America has always been reliant on immigration to be sustainable.

Slaves, remember them? Did they emigrate to America, yes or no?

#34 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-02-11 11:08 PM | Reply

America has always been reliant on immigration to be sustainable.

No it hasn't, and especially not the government ....

Its wild how you contort things and skip details that matter .....

#35 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-02-12 10:59 AM | Reply

"No it hasn't, and especially not the government .... "

Chinese railroad workers on line one.

#36 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-02-12 11:34 AM | Reply

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