Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, January 16, 2019

Gillette @Gillette "Boys will be boys"? Isn't it time we stopped excusing bad behavior? Re-think and take action by joining us. Thirty years ago, we launched our The Best A Man Can Get tagline. Since then, it has been an aspirational statement, reflecting standards that many men strive to achieve. But turn on the news today and it's easy to believe that men are not at their best. Many find themselves at a crossroads, caught between the past and a new era of masculinity. While it is clear that changes are needed, where and how we can start to effect that change is less obvious for many. And when the changes needed seem so monumental, it can feel daunting to begin. So, let's do it together.

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It's time we acknowledge that brands, like ours, play a role in influencing culture. And as a company that encourages men to be their best, we have a responsibility to make sure we are promoting positive, attainable, inclusive and healthy versions of what it means to be a man. With that in mind, we have spent the last few months taking a hard look at our past and coming communication and reflecting on the types of men and behaviors we want to celebrate. We're inviting all men along this journey with us -- to strive to be better, to make us better, and to help each other be better.

Comments

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Let's see what the uncle Tims have to say.

#1 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-01-15 02:16 AM | Reply

Women (generalized) will lose some of the respect they now have during this campaign (and other's like it).

But, in our new society of stupidity, I suppose women will prove to be just as stupid as men.

#2 | Posted by kudzu at 2019-01-15 08:40 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Gillete: The Best a Soy Boy Can Get

Yeah, that will work.

#3 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-01-15 08:56 AM | Reply | Funny: 2

"What Gillette is now saying, everything we told you to be, men, for the last 30 years is evil. Now you're all evil people, you're all toxic with your masculinity. I think it's repulsive ... the implication we all have something to apologise for? Shut up Gillette. You spent the last 30 years telling us to be masculine. There is nothing wrong with being masculine, now you want us to feel sorry and apologetic. Sorry, no, I'm not going to."

www.thesun.co.uk

#4 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-01-15 11:16 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Advertising department at Gillette was hijacked by Oberlin College Gender Studies Collective.

#5 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-01-15 11:23 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

and other's like it)

They don't like as in lets make children, they "like" it in that lets put this guy in the FriendZone so he can go get us scones.

But, in our new society of stupidity, I suppose women will prove to be just as stupid as men.
#2 | POSTED BY KUDZU

No Kudzu, they aren't stupid, the women are weeding out the weak men, its what women are supposed to do....

#6 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-01-15 11:25 AM | Reply

This is a great headline:

Gillette Tells Men They're Repulsive Creeps. Now Give Them Your Money, You Piece of Garbage

#7 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 11:29 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The usual chorus of barely literate conservatives show up on cue to sing out whatever Pop evopsyche they've managed to pull from the Clogosphere.

#8 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 11:30 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

#4

Great example of toxic masculinity in action.

#9 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 11:31 AM | Reply

This stupid ad has received an overwhelmingly negative response.

#10 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 11:32 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

It seems some males don't like being judged or held accountable.
Poor babies.

#11 | Posted by bored at 2019-01-15 11:38 AM | Reply

Yeah, what an insult to ask that men hold each other accountable for things like bullying and sexual harassment.

#12 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 11:39 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The ad is full of stereotypical nonsense.

Their customer base is exclusively men. So, logically they seek to demean and insult their customer base.

Whoever is responsible for this marketing decision should be fired.

#13 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 11:50 AM | Reply

"The ad is full of stereotypical nonsense."

Which is all toxic masculinity is. The fact that people like you embrace it as a creed (under the guise of traditionalism) is why sexual harassment and bullying and worse have reached epidemic levels.

#14 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 11:53 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

This is similar to the feminine products company that told women not to lie about rape.

#15 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-01-15 11:53 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Their customer base is exclusively men. So, logically they seek to demean and insult their customer base."

Only a moral coward sees a call to self-improvement as an insult.

#16 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 11:53 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The fact that people like you embrace it as a creed (under the guise of traditionalism)

Straw man alert!

#17 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 11:54 AM | Reply

Only a moral coward sees a call to self-improvement as an insult.

#16 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

The ad presumes that the stereotypes it perpetuates are common traits among men.

#18 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 11:55 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Straw man alert!

#17 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2019-01-15 11:54 AM | FLAG:

Nope. Completely accurate. You are here on this thread for one purpose: to attack the attackers of toxic masculinity, just like you always do.

#19 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 11:56 AM | Reply

The ad presumes that the stereotypes it perpetuates are common traits among men.

#18 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2019-01-15 11:55 AM | FLAG:

The truth of which is evident in the rates of bullying,
Sexual harassment and assault, and general misogyny abroad in the culture.

#20 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 11:58 AM | Reply

There has also been a significant negative reaction to the campaign. This is particularly evident on YouTube, where as of Tuesday morning the video's 56,000 likes were dwarfed by its nearly 300,000 dislikes.

"Congrats on being tone deaf to your audience and society at large. Time to get your ad execs out of their elitist ivory tower echo chamber," one YouTube user commented.


www.ctvnews.ca

Hectoring your customer base is really bad marketing.

#21 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 12:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#19 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

I'll give you the only response that is warranted, the dreaded Ashton Stamp:

[stamp]
Please explain. Your claim is ridiculous. Stop repeating what you hear and educate yourself. What exactly was that supposed to prove? When your point is based entirely on an assumption, you didn't have a point to begin with. In order to make your point, you had to make something up completely. See the problem? Anything else that you would like to make up? The rest of your post was just mindless. I think you have only shown that you assume too much.
Do you ever actually understand what you are commenting on or does stupidity just take hold? Does anyone really understand what this person is babbling about?
[/stamp]

#22 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 12:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The reaction to the article is just further proof of how badly it is needed.

#23 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 12:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#22

Nice, non-response, Rape Joke Jeff. No need to ask why you are so upset at the add. Don't worry... a violent, misogynistic competitor will pop up any day now to take your money.

#24 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 12:03 PM | Reply

Advert^

#25 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 12:03 PM | Reply

I don't respond to straw men, Dirk.

That's why you got the Ashton stamp.

I'm willing to discuss this with you as an adult, but am not going to get baited into a childish flame war over a position I've never taken.

So, how we proceed, if at all, is entirely up to you.

#26 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 12:05 PM | Reply

I use an electric razor and thus don't care what politically-correct message Gillette is trying to peddle.

#27 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 12:06 PM | Reply

"I don't respond well to reasonable criticism, Dirk."

FTFY

Like I said: pure, moral cowardice.

#28 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 12:07 PM | Reply

"I use an electric razor and thus don't care what message of common decency Gillette is trying to peddle."

FTFY

You must be so disappointed that you missed a chance to boycott someone doing the right thing, huh?

#29 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 12:08 PM | Reply

nothing says Raging Snowflake quite like taking to the internet to share your outrage over of some stupid commercial

#30 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2019-01-15 12:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"The ad presumes that the stereotypes it perpetuates are common traits among men"

good grief

what you apparently presume is this advert is speaking directly to you

and that's entirely on you

I think this add has hit a nerve with the DR 'men'

and when I say hit a nerve, I mean it is personally relatable to them

#31 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2019-01-15 12:40 PM | Reply

So, having an adult conversation is off the table, I take it.

[stamp]
Please explain. Your claim is ridiculous. Stop repeating what you hear and educate yourself. What exactly was that supposed to prove? When your point is based entirely on an assumption, you didn't have a point to begin with. In order to make your point, you had to make something up completely. See the problem? Anything else that you would like to make up? The rest of your post was just mindless. I think you have only shown that you assume too much.
Do you ever actually understand what you are commenting on or does stupidity just take hold? Does anyone really understand what this person is babbling about?
[/stamp]

#32 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 12:50 PM | Reply

Gillette probably sees the trend among so many men to grow beards and fears that their customer base is shrinking. I've considered this phenomenon before, when I was younger some men wore beards but not like today. I like the appearance they can give a man but I don't think I'd like the feel of that coarse hair on my face were I so inclined to be close to men. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

#33 | Posted by danni at 2019-01-15 01:04 PM | Reply

Ok so let me parse this debate.

Gillette puts out a commercial challenging men to be the best that they can, meaning do not bully, do not harass, do not abuse, in big and small ways.

Men are offended by this?

Shouldnt men be stiving for perfection? To be the best that they can? I mean noone is perfect. Every man has bullied or harrassed or abused, some far more than others. Shouldnt we strive to overcome these failings?

Shouldnt we stand up for others? Shouldnt we treat women and minorities, everyone with respect?

It is bizarre that anyone would have a problem with this ad.

The arguments in this thread are
1. Gillette told us to be masculine so now that is no longer acceptable
2. Women don't want weak men
3. the negatives portrayed are stereotypical
4. the stereotypes are not common

So lets look at each argument in order

1. Even assuming that Gillette taught you toxic masculinity, isnt it high time they and you learned and changed?
2. The ad is against negative masculine traits, although I admit some women want abusive men, not all do and everyone would benefit by the improved behavior of men. I would argue that weak men are those that abuse and bully and strength comes from strength of character
3. The negatives protrayed do exist, that is irrefutable. And the point is to strive for perfection in our actions. Noone is perfect, but men should strive for it.
4. the commonness of the negatives is irrelevant. We can argue all day about the prevelance of abuse and bullying and harrassment, we can debate about what each of those things is. But the bottom line is the ad challenges us to strive to be the best we can, to eliminate these objectively bad behaviors-though many will argue that they are actually good things-if your moral compass is so screwed up there is no point arguing with you.

#34 | Posted by truthhurts at 2019-01-15 01:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 7

Gillette probably sees the trend among so many men to grow beards and fears that their customer base is shrinking. I've considered this phenomenon before, when I was younger some men wore beards but not like today. I like the appearance they can give a man but I don't think I'd like the feel of that coarse hair on my face were I so inclined to be close to men. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

#33 | POSTED BY DANNI AT 2019-01-15 01:04 PM

Do you use Gillette to trim your mustache? - 101Chairborne

#35 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 01:14 PM | Reply

Being male is not toxic. What specific behavior is meant by that demeaning term? If you interacted with most other groups this way the Uncle Tims on this site would be claiming racism, sexism or whateverism. It's bigoted and wrong. It's toxic feminism.

#36 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-01-15 01:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Gillette probably sees the trend among so many men to grow beards and fears that their customer base is shrinking."

Like you used to have to be in the Navy or a gang to get a tattoo, but nowadays your CPA might have Thug Life tattooed on his biceps.

#37 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-15 01:22 PM | Reply

Sexual harassment sexual assault bullying defending those behaviors would be toxic masculine behaviors

It is weird that people are against self improvement

#38 | Posted by truthhurts at 2019-01-15 01:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Being male is not toxic."

Then why are 90% of violent crimes committed by men?

#39 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-15 01:23 PM | Reply

Could you break that 90% down by race, ethnicity and social class?

#40 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-01-15 01:26 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Being male is not toxic. What specific behavior is meant by that demeaning term?"

You could do some research and find out.

The reader's digest version? It is the exhortation of a "traditional" masculinity that violently imposes gender roles in a way that encourages or enables bullying, sexual violence, and general misogyny.

www.tolerance.org

#41 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 01:29 PM | Reply

"So, having an adult conversation is off the table, I take it."

Says the guy posting stamps. Get off your high hobby horse before you hurt yourself.

#42 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 01:31 PM | Reply

- It is weird that people are against self improvement

You mean, self-loathing.

#43 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-01-15 01:34 PM | Reply

"Men are offended by this?"

Fragile men are

#44 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2019-01-15 01:34 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Stamps are what was warranted.

Act like an adult and I'll treat you accordingly, Dirk.

#45 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 01:35 PM | Reply

The term "toxic masculinity" encourages or enables bullying and general misandry. Toxic feminists should learn to police their own faults.

#46 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-01-15 01:36 PM | Reply

"The term "toxic masculinity" encourages or enables bullying"

Citation needed.

"and general misandry."

Always a good watchword for misogynists.

#47 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 01:38 PM | Reply

"Stamps are what was warranted."

What have you contributed to the discussion again? Oh, that's right: aggrieved whining and some stamps. But tell me more about adult discourse, you sad little man.

#48 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 01:39 PM | Reply

You mean, self-loathing.

#43 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2019-01-15 01:34 PM | FLAG:

Sad that our alleged Buddhist can't distinguish between self loathing and appropriate self criticism.

#49 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 01:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

An interesting read for those who want some conceptual background:

en.m.wikipedia.org

#50 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 01:43 PM | Reply

"As a sociological concept, the nature of hegemonic masculinity derives from the theory of cultural hegemony, by Marxist theorist Antonio Gramsci, which analyses the power relations among the social classes of a society. "

Good of Comrade Dirk to make clear how much the ideology of "toxic masculinity" owes to Marxism. Thanks, Dirk!

#51 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-01-15 01:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Good of Comrade Dirk to make clear how much the ideology of "toxic masculinity" owes to Marxism. Thanks, Dirk!

#51 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2019-01-15 01:53 PM | FLAG:

Whole academic disciplines owe a great deal to Marxism, Dulli. Now, do you have an actual argument to offer? Because my guess is that you don't.

#52 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 01:56 PM | Reply

How about an ad portraying women as gold-diggers, cheaters, cads, passive-aggressive and vapid sorority babes? It's all about self-improvement, right?

#53 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 01:58 PM | Reply

--Whole academic disciplines owe a great deal to Marxism,

Yeah, I've heard that before. From me.

lol

#54 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-01-15 02:00 PM | Reply

"How about an ad portraying women as gold-diggers, cheaters, cads, passive-aggressive and vapid sorority babes?"

False equivalence. Those stereotypes are used by men to oppress women. The behaviors pointed to in the ad are demonstrably widespread, demonstrably harmful, and (and here's the important part), enabled or encouraged by notions of masculinity that millions of men accept more or less uncritically.

#55 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 02:01 PM | Reply

Yeah, I've heard that before. From me.

lol

#54 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2019-01-15 02:00 PM | FLAG:

Yeah. Unlike you, I am not using it as an ad hominem.

#56 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 02:02 PM | Reply

"How about an ad portraying women as gold-diggers, cheaters, cads, passive-aggressive and vapid sorority babes?"

As if there aren't men who are gold-diggrs, cheaters, cads, etc.
Both genders have members who do those things but both genders also have nurturing parents, hard working adults, who don't want to take anything from anyone.

#57 | Posted by danni at 2019-01-15 02:13 PM | Reply

Both genders have members who do those things but both genders also have nurturing parents, hard working adults, who don't want to take anything from anyone.

#57 | POSTED BY DANNI

Agreed. But let's go back to the point I was making - there is no way an ad depicting stereotypical caricatures of women would ever be deemed acceptable. Yet, when it comes to me, let's stereotype away!

#58 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 02:23 PM | Reply

False equivalence.

No it isn't. You just don't want to address my post.

#59 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 02:24 PM | Reply

"Could you break that 90% down by race, ethnicity and social class?
#40 | POSTED BY VISITOR_"

I could, but they would still be 90% male.

#60 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-15 02:28 PM | Reply

"there is no way an ad depicting stereotypical caricatures of women would ever be deemed acceptable."

What planet is your home?
Such ads are commonplace, at least on Earth.

#61 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-15 02:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

No it isn't. You just don't want to address my post.

#59 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2019-01-15 02:24 PM | FLAG:

....I DID address it. I explained the difference between what you describe and what was done in the ad. Did you miss it somehow?

#62 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 02:32 PM | Reply

What planet is your home?
Such ads are commonplace, at least on Earth.

#61 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Can you cite an ad that depicts women negatively in stereotypical fashion?

#63 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 02:35 PM | Reply

www.campaignlive.co.uk

Do you just not look at ads?

#64 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 02:38 PM | Reply

How about an ad portraying women as gold-diggers, cheaters, cads, passive-aggressive and vapid sorority babes? It's all about self-improvement, right?
#53 | Posted by JeffJ

Jefe the master of whataboutism

#65 | Posted by truthhurts at 2019-01-15 03:01 PM | Reply

"Can you cite an ad that depicts women negatively in stereotypical fashion?"

Find out what "Two C's in a K means" and get back to me.

#66 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-15 03:06 PM | Reply

Can you cite an ad that depicts women negatively in stereotypical fashion?

#63 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

That bitter, paranoid wife from the "Jake; from Statefarm" commercials.

#67 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2019-01-15 03:08 PM | Reply

Cheryl's She-Shed.

#68 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-15 03:11 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Gillette is so 20th century. I recently made the move from Dollar Shave club to a straight razor.
Who needs to pay for a 6 blade razor and celebrity endorsements to get a good shave nowadays?

#69 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2019-01-15 03:13 PM | Reply

I did feel good about DSC when I signed up for it, because I clicked on an ad and subscribed to the service via the drudge.com homepage. Maybe rcade got a referral bonus to buy some server time.

#70 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2019-01-15 03:15 PM | Reply

That bitter, paranoid wife from the "Jake; from Statefarm" commercials.

#67 | POSTED BY INDIANAJONES

That's a pretty good example. Although that commercial isn't trying to make a scolding political/cultural statement. So, it's not exactly apples/oranges.

#71 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 03:26 PM | Reply

That's a pretty good example. Although that commercial isn't trying to make a scolding political/cultural statement. So, it's not exactly apples/oranges.

#71 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2019-01-15 03:26 PM | FLAG:

Moving the goalposts.

#72 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 03:27 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I'd like to amend my question - Can you cite an ad that depicts women negatively in a stereotypical fashion and then goes on to chide women to be better?

#73 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 03:28 PM | Reply

Moving the goalposts.

#72 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

Yes - to create an apples/apples comparison.

#74 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 03:28 PM | Reply

m.youtube.com

Yet another one, and a Super Bowl ad, no less. I could do this all day.

#75 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 03:30 PM | Reply

"Can you cite an ad that depicts women negatively in a stereotypical fashion and then goes on to chide women to be better?"

Kitchen and cooking related infomercials. And makeup. And diapers.

Do you even watch TV, JeffJ?

#76 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-15 03:30 PM | Reply

Weight Watchers.

#77 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-15 03:32 PM | Reply

Yes - to create an apples/apples comparison.

#74 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2019-01-15 03:28 PM | FLAG:

It was a false comparison to begin with, Jeff. I've already pointed that out to you and explained why.

#78 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 03:33 PM | Reply

Kitchen and cooking related infomercials. And makeup. And diapers.

Those infomercials depict women as horrible people, as a condition of their gender, and then go on to scold them to be better?

I highly doubt that because it would be terrible marketing. Most people selling products understand it's bad advertising to scold your customers.

#79 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 03:33 PM | Reply

"Those infomercials depict women as horrible people, as a condition of their gender, and then go on to scold them to be better?"

Moving the goalposts and a strawman. No one is depicting men as horrible people as a condition of their gender.

#80 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 03:35 PM | Reply

Weight Watchers.

#77 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Weight Watchers targets both men and women. Also, it doesn't presume men and women are overweight because they are men and women.

Last winter I joined Weight Watchers for 12 weeks. At the meetings the male/female split was close to 50%.

This Gillette ad depicts men as ------ people simply because they are male.

#81 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 03:36 PM | Reply

No one is depicting men as horrible people as a condition of their gender.

#80 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

Gillette is.

#82 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 03:36 PM | Reply

Gillette is.

#82 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2019-01-15 03:36 PM | FLAG:

No they aren't.

#83 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 03:39 PM | Reply

This Gillette ad depicts men as ------ people simply because they are male.

#81 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2019-01-15 03:36 PM | FLAG:

Citation needed.

#84 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 03:39 PM | Reply

"This Gillette ad depicts men as ------ people simply because they are male."

It's a little more complicated than that.

You feel attacked by this ad.

I don't.

What's different about us, that you feel something I don't?

#85 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-15 03:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

"Weight Watchers targets both men and women."

Not equally or in the same way. But you know that.

#86 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 03:40 PM | Reply

"What's different about us, that you feel something I don't?" Good question. Can you accept that feelings are valid even if you don't have the same ones? Why can't you accept that many males find this ad defaming and hurtful? We have to stop toxic feminism.

#87 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-01-15 03:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I watched the commercial (it's a commercial, so in the end, it's mainly trying to sell you razors and shaving cream).

I liked it. The world of the 50s, where men were men and women belonged in the kitchen, has passed.

We should encourage boys not to fight, to be more accepting and understanding of each other. Kids learn a lot from their parents, so make sure you're being a good role model for them.

Such simple ideas and concepts.

Seems typical of conservatives to get upset about a commercial telling men to improve themselves and future generations of men by being the best they could be.

Because conservatives are perfect. And our society is perfect. And men are perfect. And nothing should ever change. Ever.

I hope you guys aren't showering or shaving or brushing your teeth. Hygiene is something effeminate beta soy boys do. Real men are rugged loners who eat meat right off the animal and punch anyone who looks their way twice.

#88 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-01-15 04:00 PM | Reply

"toxic feminism"

What is that, exactly? Because it sounds like something you made up.

#89 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 04:03 PM | Reply

Boys should aspire to be just like Frank Cotton.

#90 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 04:05 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

This Gillette ad depicts men as ------ people simply because they are male.

That wasn't my interpretation of the commercial.

My interpretation is, men have spent generations considering some actions acceptable, like fighting or bullying.

That's not to say we're shhtty people. But, perhaps it's time we no longer consider such actions as acceptable.

And I get it. A millennium ago men had to be fighters. Strong to the core. We had to hunt and defend ourselves and our tribes.

But. Obviously. Times have changed.

#91 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-01-15 04:17 PM | Reply

#91 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

That's an interesting take. I'll watch it again with your summation in mind.

#92 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 04:19 PM | Reply

"Boys should aspire to be just like Frank Cotton.
#90 | POSTED BY JEFFJ"

Boys should aspire to engage in a difficult or uncomfortable conversation without attempting to scuttle the conversation with jokes.

#93 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-15 04:23 PM | Reply

Lighten up, Francis.

#94 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 04:24 PM | Reply

Lighten up, Francis.

#94 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2019-01-15 04:24 PM | FLAG:

Easy for you to joke, I guess.

#95 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 04:27 PM | Reply

"What's different about us, that you feel something I don't?" Good question. Can you accept that feelings are valid even if you don't have the same ones?

I'm not trying to invalidate JeffJ feeling threatened.

Rather, I'm attempting to elucidate what about this ad and this topic he finds threatening.

And, I wouldn't be doing that if I didn't take his feeling threatehed at face value.

So, to retort your question, not only can I do that, I'm doing it right now.

#96 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-15 04:29 PM | Reply

How in the world do you deduce that I somehow feel "threatened" by this ad?

#97 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 04:32 PM | Reply

After watching it again I do see where Clown is coming from.

#98 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 04:32 PM | Reply

"Lighten up, Francis.
#94 | POSTED BY JEFFJ"

Oh, I see you doubled down on making jokes.
You're being toxic now.
I'll explain how, for those who don't get it.

Specifically, you're saying the thing that's serious to me and the others in this thread isn't serious enough to warrant your concern, and the way for allbof us to move forward is for everyone else to agree with you, lighten up, and no longer care.

Thanks for reading and understanding, JeffJ.

#99 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-15 04:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Honestly. The Boazes of the world. Who already consider themselves to be perfect, will take issue with this commercial.

A lot of people have trouble accepting criticism.

Usually criticism has the opposite effect with these individuals.

#100 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-01-15 04:38 PM | Reply

You're getting awfully emotional over a little joke.

#101 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 04:38 PM | Reply

What's different about us, that you feel something I don't?

#85 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2019-01-15 03:39 PM

Is it that Jeff has fully formed and functioning male genitalia and you don't?

#102 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-01-15 04:39 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

You're getting awfully emotional over a little joke.

#101 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2019-01-15 04:38 PM | FLAG:

There you go again.... turning it around, invalidating the viewpoint and life experience of your interlocutor.

#103 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 04:41 PM | Reply

Is it that Jeff has fully formed and functioning male genitalia and you don't?

#102 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER AT 2019-01-15 04:39 PM | FLAG:

Speaking of toxic masculinity....

#104 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 04:42 PM | Reply

"You're getting awfully emotional over a little joke.
#101 | POSTED BY JEFFJ"

Au contraire, JeffJ.

You're getting awfully jokey over a little emotion.

And RightOCenter is getting a homosexual -------- thinking about your --------.

Conservatives don't handle non-toxic emotions well. What's up with that?

#105 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-15 04:43 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

To steal Jeff's line, lighten up Francis...

Unless there is something that you want to share with the class about your emotions, especially when questioned about your lack of fully formed genitalia.

#106 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-01-15 04:46 PM | Reply

Righto literally can't stop himself from playing out his inadequacies for us all in (almost) real time...

#107 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 04:52 PM | Reply

I've noticed there's a double standard that's being created. Women are getting away with stuff that men once did that are now frowned upon. Women judges on TV shows can fawn over male contestants. If it was a man doing the same thing over a female contestant, they would be in so much trouble.

#108 | Posted by Pirate at 2019-01-15 04:53 PM | Reply

I just watched the commercial.

You'd have to be a complete ----- to be offended by this. I feel bad for RoC and Jeffj; they must have big doubts about their own masculinity to think this commercial suggests anything close to the notion that "the stereotypes it perpetuates are common traits among men". The ad encourages men to not turn a blind eye to toxic masculinity; it never suggests all men are toxic sexual predators. What abhorrent things have you done to watch that commercial and immediately identify with the creeps and bullies?

#109 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2019-01-15 05:10 PM | Reply

#108 men are the new women.

#110 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-15 05:32 PM | Reply

#108 Good luck to anyone who thinks women will save us. They're just as awful as we are. Just look at the people who put Trump into power. He's surrounded by women.

#111 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-15 05:34 PM | Reply

Any ad that begins with the blanket statement that one entire gender is not good, is a lie.

They could have had the same ad without the sexism and everyone could have joined in.

I'm of an age and in a career where I have exceedingly rarely seen any of this.

#112 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-15 05:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I wouldn't let my sons see this. I teach them these good character traits without implying they are genetically/socially predisposed to being a pos.

#113 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-15 05:37 PM | Reply

I feel bad for Indy's complete lack of reading comprehension if he thinks that anything I posted comes even close to what he is attributing to me.

#112-113

I agree completely, while I get what Gillette is trying to say it could have been said in a much more intelligent manner.

Meanwhile, the SJW's are all torn up that we disagree with them.

#114 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-01-15 05:47 PM | Reply

John Fugelsang
‏Verified account @JohnFugelsang

If you're a man who's outraged over a Gillette ad that encourages men to not be horrible selfish ------ PLEASE let the rest of us know who you are.
2:50 PM - 15 Jan 2019

2,387 Retweets
10,281 Likes

#115 | Posted by Hans at 2019-01-15 06:27 PM | Reply

"Being male is not toxic." - #36 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-01-15 01:19 PM

Sometime ask JeffJ about the Dutch Oven.

#116 | Posted by Hans at 2019-01-15 06:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I feel bad ...if he thinks that anything I posted comes even close to what he is attributing to me.
#114 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

Then you're an even bigger ----- than everyone originally thought. Too castrated by your own mental ineptitude to even stand by your position. Your lack of balls is comical, your lack of conviction is pathetic.

#102 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER - defends Jeffylube's perceived victimization by the ad

If you think I misrepresented you, why are you defending Jeff's hallucination that the ad is saying all men are toxic? It doesn't sound like I misrepresented you at all; it sounds like you and Jeff were both quick to self-identify with the toxic characters of the ad.

It isn't my fault you feel more like the bullies and less like a man.

#117 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2019-01-15 06:45 PM | Reply

It isn't my fault you're concerned with my genitalia... or is it?

Did I lead you on, RightOCenter?

#118 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-15 06:52 PM | Reply

@102 being overly sensitive to criticism of his masculinity would indicate the opposite. But that is just science.

#119 | Posted by truthhurts at 2019-01-15 07:10 PM | Reply

Any ad that begins with the blanket statement that one entire gender is not good, is a lie.
They could have had the same ad without the sexism and everyone could have joined in.
I'm of an age and in a career where I have exceedingly rarely seen any of this.
#112 | Posted by BruceBanner

Ive watched the ad 3 times and it doesn't make a blanket statement that one entire gender is not good.

So you have a problem with your ability to understand.

I'm of an age where I have seen most everything including the negative behavior stated by the ad. It still goes on today, including a President that brags about grabbing women by the -----. I believe that is not something men should do and as Gillette asks, we as men should stop doing it, stop encouraging it and stop turning a blind eye to it.

#120 | Posted by truthhurts at 2019-01-15 07:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

LOL, it looks like the SJWs have circled the wagons to protect themselves against us mean Hets.

TFF

#121 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-01-15 07:25 PM | Reply

LOL, it looks like the SJWs have circled the wagons to protect themselves against us mean Hets.

TFF

#121 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER AT 2019-01-15 07:25 PM | FLAG:

Says the guy who staggered drunkenly into the thread to whine about an ad and speculate about the genitalia of other men.

#122 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 07:32 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

please, ROC, tell us where the SJW touched you.

#123 | Posted by truthhurts at 2019-01-15 07:32 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

please, ROC, tell us where the SJW touched you.

#123 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2019-01-15 07:32 PM | FLAG:

Don't encourage him. He's basically a clowning middle schooler at this point: obsessed with matters ------- and scatological (and that, very often in combination).

#124 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 07:37 PM | Reply

SJWs have circled the wagons to protect themselves against us

Says the guy who's identity has been challenged by a commercial.

Hope you recover from the thrashing you received from Gillet.

Thoughts & Prayers!

#125 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-01-15 07:38 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

There were lots of articles today about the ad. You can google your own if you want, and here are a random few:

The backlash to the Gillette ad is exactly why it's needed
www.bostonglobe.com

Gillette #MeToo ad on 'toxic masculinity' gets praise – and abuse
www.theguardian.com

Gillette Commercial: #MeToo Movement Inspires New Advertisement That Has Social Media Buzzing
www.ibtimes.com

#126 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-15 08:42 PM | Reply

"Says the guy who's identity has been challenged by a commercial. "

Not since the Nike Kaepernick ad has there been such a hullabaloo over a commercial.

#127 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-15 08:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#126 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY

It'll be the new litmus test. Once it was: do you kneel with Kaep or stand with police brutality? Now it will be; do you oppose toxic masculinity or is your masculinity threatened by a shaving commercial?

#128 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2019-01-15 08:52 PM | Reply

Side note, if any of you are using Gillette razors, Dollar Shave Club, Harry's Razors, or any other one of those razor marketing schemes, do yourself a favor and invest in a double sided safety razor, like a Merkur. $30 for the razor and 100 double sided blades for $12.

Your first 200 shaves, with a new blade each shave, only cost $0.21 each. It will also be a much closer shave than those disposables with less skin irritation from the multiple blades.

#129 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2019-01-15 08:58 PM | Reply

"What's different about us, that you feel something I don't?" Good question. Can you accept that feelings are valid even if you don't have the same ones? Why can't you accept that many males find this ad defaming and hurtful? We have to stop toxic feminism.

Many males feel defamed and hurt by an ad that encourages men not to be bullies and sexual harassers and to speak out against those actions when they are taken by other men?

#130 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-15 09:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Side note, if any of you are using Gillette razors, Dollar Shave Club, Harry's Razors, or any other one of those razor marketing schemes, do yourself a favor and invest in a double sided safety razor, like a Merkur. $30 for the razor and 100 double sided blades for $12.

Your first 200 shaves, with a new blade each shave, only cost $0.21 each. It will also be a much closer shave than those disposables with less skin irritation from the multiple blades.

#129 | POSTED BY INDIANAJONES AT 2019-01-15 08:58 PM | REPLY

Cheers to that. I would recommend Feather blades as well. Sharp as sin and with a built in safe disposal case (safe disposal of razor blades is everyone's responsibility). Hard to find a better shave without really going for the gusto and getting a straight razor.

#131 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-15 09:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I tip my hat to Gillette for the ad and, more importantly, the donations.

But since that's not what the DR is for, I'll s$&% on Gillette for trying to appeal to the neck bearded "woke" betas who would probably never touch a Gillette razor as they're a sign of the patriarchy.

#132 | Posted by jpw at 2019-01-15 10:13 PM | Reply

"Not since the Nike Kaepernick ad has there been such a hullabaloo over a commercial.
#127 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY"

And from the same people.
And for the same reasons.

#133 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-15 10:18 PM | Reply

The Kaepernick ad was nothing like this you idiots.

#134 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-15 11:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"The Kaepernick ad was nothing like this you idiots."

The Piers Morgan response to calling out toxic masculinity by increasing the toxicity is is what's the same.
And the people announcing to social media they are forever boycotting the brand that offended them.
Maybe the sales bump too.

#135 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-15 11:43 PM | Reply

Don't you think there is a legitimate visceral reaction to the framing of an otherwise great ad?

#136 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 12:17 AM | Reply

I liked a lot about the ad just for the record. I reject all Trump-style toxic masculinity.

#137 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 12:18 AM | Reply

I do not follow you.

What do you mean, otherwise great?

Definitely a visceral reaction from the Piers Morgans of tbe world. Knowing Piers Morgan as well as I do, which thankfully is not very well at all, I hesitate to even call it sincere.

If this ad offended you, you got trolled. Therein lies the greatness.

#138 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-16 12:23 AM | Reply

Watch the childish gambino video for this is America. Then you'll see my point.

#139 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 12:31 AM | Reply

"If this ad offended you, you got trolled."

Try not to assimilate into full Trumper.

#140 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 12:32 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The razor just got ten more blades!

#141 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-16 12:34 AM | Reply

I think you don't even know what your point is.

#142 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 12:35 AM | Reply

Why did your switch to piers Morgan? What happened to the other guy?

#143 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 12:36 AM | Reply

Point? See Nulli's link up at the top. The battle lines seem clear enough. I know which side I'm on.

#144 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-16 12:38 AM | Reply

This place is making you dumb.

There are other aspects to the ad that have legitimate issues.

Nulli wanting to ------------- Trump is not really worth discussion.

#145 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 12:44 AM | Reply

I'm sure you're right on both counts.

#146 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-16 12:50 AM | Reply

There are other aspects to the ad that have legitimate issues.

Such as?

#147 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-01-16 12:55 AM | Reply

The Kaepernick ad was nothing like this you idiots.

Not from your, or my, perspective.

But. There were many men that found the Kaepernick commercial disrespectful to everything from the President to the game to the military.

If you want to be offended by a commercial made to implore you to be a better human, then by all means, have at it.

#148 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-01-16 12:58 AM | Reply

I brought up the childish gambino video. Are you familiar? It really does a good job of summarizing the portrayal of (in the case of the video, blacks) one class as inherently evil.

I think this commercial, without intending to, portrays men as inherently dangerous.

#149 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 01:00 AM | Reply

"There were many men that found the Kaepernick commercial disrespectful to everything from the President to the game to the military."

Men and women. But not the content of the ad itself. The ad glorified the best of humanity. The Gillette ad is the exact opposite. The Gillette ad says try to stop being a rapist.

#150 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 01:02 AM | Reply

I think this commercial, without intending to, portrays men as inherently dangerous.

I think this commercial points out how men can excuse actions taken by boys as just part of growing up, not realizing these behaviors persist and remain in adulthood.

The scene I liked in it was when the father split up the bullies picking on the on kid and his son sees his dad setting a good example.

Also liked the YouTube clip they used where the guy breaks up the other two guys who were about to fight and gets them to shake hands.

Violence, all too often, is a first response. When typically it should be a last response.

#151 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-01-16 01:06 AM | Reply

"If you want to be offended by a commercial made to implore you to be a better human, then by all means, have at it."

I'm fine with it. It said that men are rapists and they should try to not be. They should try to stop other men from being rapists too.

What's not to love?

I'm actually big on self-improvement.

#152 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 01:06 AM | Reply

#151 do you have kids? I do. What you're describing is a fiction. Kids aren't encoraged to fight by their fathers. They're told not to fight. In schools they're not allowed to even defend themselves.

The content is bizarre to me.

#153 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 01:08 AM | Reply

I brought up the childish gambino video. Are you familiar? It really does a good job of summarizing the portrayal of (in the case of the video, blacks) one class as inherently evil.

Yes. It's a great video. I've watched many breakdowns about it. From the dancing to the gun play to the choir to everything. You can teach classes on all the messages being portrayed in the video.

#154 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-01-16 01:08 AM | Reply

I think the Gillette ad could have been constructed with a series of the good actions and been just as effective. My wife watched it and only mentioned how she liked the good parts.

#155 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 01:12 AM | Reply

Kids aren't encoraged to fight by their fathers.

You don't encourage your kid(s) to fight.

I assume neither do your friends who have children.

I'm sure Jeff has raised his sons not to bully and pick fights. Same with Rogers.

That's doesn't mean all fathers are like you.

There are plenty cases of kids fighting, everyday. Being bullied everyday. Committing suicide, everyday.

#156 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-01-16 01:13 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I'm wondering what the message is to the next generation.

I would like to see the next generation respecting each other as equals in all ways (personal, financial, in matters of love etc)

#157 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 01:14 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

My wife watched it and only mentioned how she liked the good parts.

I like that attitude. Perhaps I need to rewatch the commercial with your perspective in mind.

#158 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-01-16 01:15 AM | Reply

#156 yes. You are right.

#159 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 01:17 AM | Reply

The Kaepernick ad was nothing like this you idiots.
#134 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER

It wasn't but the conservative backlash is the same.

I didn't expect you to end up on the side of "emasculated by a commercial".

"If this ad offended you, you got trolled."
Try not to assimilate into full Trumper.

#140 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER

A lot of irony to unpack here.

#160 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2019-01-16 02:37 AM | Reply

I'm wondering what the message is to the next generation.
#157 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER

See something, say or do something if you see or are a victim of sexual misconduct.

#161 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2019-01-16 02:40 AM | Reply

"Unlike you snowflakes I'm not so easily triggered."

"I WILL NEVER BUY A RAZOR AGAIN. I'M GOING TO SHAVE WITH MY GUNS!!!"

-- the rrriiiiiggghhhtttt

#162 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2019-01-16 05:44 AM | Reply

BTW, my dad taught me right and I've been using a straight razor to shave since I was 15.

I'm not about to switch it up and start buying the **** you throw away after you use it twice because of an ad.

#163 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2019-01-16 05:58 AM | Reply

Boys should aspire to engage in a difficult or uncomfortable conversation without attempting to scuttle the conversation with jokes.
#93 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Now you've gone too far mister!
Seriously, using humour to work through tough issues in your mind, I believe, is a good way to deal. It proves someone's listening and their mind is processing.

Nothing at all wrong with this commercial. Every man should admit to themselves that we are biologically wired to appreciate all kinds of activities which are completely unacceptable in modern civilized society. And should be.
But women should also admit that it's a struggle for the majority of men and often a conscious effort. Men should be celebrated when they turn those evil drives and instincts around into productive behaviours.
I find this whole "toxic masculinity" debate to be a bit like "---- shaming".

#164 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2019-01-16 06:23 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The should do one for Muslims so the won't all be terrorists and another for blacks so they won't act so black and women so they won't get drunk and lie about rape. Still can't see why we take offense?

#165 | Posted by visitor_ at 2019-01-16 07:30 AM | Reply

See something, say or do something if you see or are a victim of sexual misconduct.

#161 | POSTED BY INDIANAJONES AT 2019-01-16 02:40 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

I agree with that. There was also the second message that #164 lays out.

#166 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 08:36 AM | Reply

A lot of irony to unpack here.
#160 | POSTED BY INDIANAJONES AT 2019-01-16 02:37 AM | REPLY | FLAG

Come on. That was gentle enough.

#167 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 08:37 AM | Reply

I wish Visitor would quit visiting.

#168 | Posted by danni at 2019-01-16 08:43 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"I'm of an age where I have seen most everything including the negative behavior stated by the ad. It still goes on today, including a President that brags about grabbing women by the -----. I believe that is not something men should do and as Gillette asks, we as men should stop doing it, stop encouraging it and stop turning a blind eye to it."

When a man like that is elected President we do have a problem. How can any decent man approve of him? How can any woman not fear the world as he would have it be?
I have brothers, some of whom voted for him, which totally confuses me because none of them would ever behave that way nor approve of any man who did behave that way.

#169 | Posted by danni at 2019-01-16 08:50 AM | Reply

Imagine being offended by an ad. These are the people calling everyone else a "snowflake."

#170 | Posted by JOE at 2019-01-16 09:17 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Anyone remember when Sheryl Sandberg told women to lean in? Were the women upset by that advice snowflakes?

#171 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 09:45 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Boys should aspire to be just like Frank Cotton." - #90 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-15 04:05 PM

While others bring a razor to a shave job, Frank Cotton brings a gun.

#172 | Posted by Hans at 2019-01-16 09:48 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"The Kaepernick ad was nothing like this you idiots.
#134 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-15"

I compared the response to the two ads, not the ads themselves:

"Not since the Nike Kaepernick ad has there been such a hullabaloo over a commercial.
#127 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY"

Please learn to read.

#173 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-16 09:59 AM | Reply

"The should do one for Muslims so the won't all be terrorists and another for blacks so they won't act so black and women so they won't get drunk and lie about rape. Still can't see why we take offense?"

Gillibrand announced yesterday that she is running for president, which has reawakened the anger some Dems feel towards her regarding Al Franken. Both sides of the divide are already heating up, with the Gillibrand side saying: #WeBeleiveWomen or #WeBeleiveTheWomen. I'd like to see an ad directed at women that conveys the message #BelieveButInvestigage or #BelieveButVerify. Such an ad would likely create a huge backlash in some of the #MeToo circles, which to quote the Boston Globe headline I cited earlier, "is exactly why it's needed." Men telling women we need to believe but verify won't have the same impact as women telling other women that, so an ad that encourages women to dialogue amongst themselves on the issue would be welcome.

#174 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-16 10:20 AM | Reply

"The should do one for Muslims so the won't all be terrorists and another for blacks so they won't act so black and women so they won't get drunk and lie about rape. Still can't see why we take offense?"

I don't know what "another for blacks so they won't act so black" means, but if one extends your analogy as you imply we should, then we get "another for men so they won't act so manly". It's manly to be a bully and sexually harass others? It's manly to ignore or excuse that behavior in other men? If so, then that would be one definition of toxic masculinity.

I find this whole "toxic masculinity" debate to be a bit like "---- shaming".

That's the thing, toxic masculinity is immune to shaming. Think Donald Trump, who feels little or no shame about anything he has ever said or done. Little or no regret either.

#175 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-16 10:35 AM | Reply

"my dad taught me right and I've been using a straight razor to shave since I was 15."

More gatekeeping from Mr. Franklin.

#176 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2019-01-16 10:37 AM | Reply

"The should do one for Muslims so the won't all be terrorists and another for blacks so they won't act so black and women so they won't get drunk and lie about rape. Still can't see why we take offense?"

Now that I'm thinking about it an anti-bullying ad directed at women would be great. No more mean girls bullying other girls because they aren't pretty enough, smart enough, thin enough, don't have the right clothes, etc.

#177 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-16 10:46 AM | Reply

I guess Gillette will end this practice:

i2.wp.com

i2.wp.com

i0.wp.com

#178 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-01-16 10:46 AM | Reply

"No more mean girls bullying other girls because they aren't pretty enough, smart enough, thin enough, don't have the right clothes, etc."

Or guys for that matter. Insert appropriate word changes: handsome, muscular and so on.

#179 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-16 10:52 AM | Reply

#178 why? Those appear to be some of the best asses a man can get.

Ooops was I not supposed to say such a toxic thing?

#180 | Posted by jpw at 2019-01-16 10:58 AM | Reply | Funny: 3

"my dad taught me right and I've been using a straight razor to shave since I was 15"

I use a utility knife.

#181 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2019-01-16 10:58 AM | Reply

That's the way to win libs. Tell half the country they're flawed and evil because of their biology.

I'm sure that'll get a lot of votes for you.

In order to keep people from overthrowing them, the plutocrats need us fighting amongst ourselves. They get us to fight over race, religion, and now they want a war between the sexes. If we're all scolding each other about sex, we'll be too busy to fight our oppressors.

#182 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-16 11:22 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"In order to keep people from overthrowing them, the plutocrats need us fighting amongst ourselves." - #182 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-16 11:22 AM

Introspection?

#183 | Posted by Hans at 2019-01-16 11:24 AM | Reply

"I use a utility knife." - #181 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2019-01-16 10:58 AM

Frank Cotton shaves with a butter knife.

#184 | Posted by Hans at 2019-01-16 11:25 AM | Reply

Imagine a young man who doesn't pay much attention to politics and is just forming his first political opinions.

Team A is telling him he's a barely controllable rape monster who can't be trusted and must control his evil instincts.

Team B is telling him that team A is a bunch of crazy crybabies and there's nothing wrong with him.

Who do you think this young man is more likely to vote for?

This manufactured war on men only makes more trump voters. Is that what you want?

#185 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-16 11:26 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Frank Cotton shaves with a butter knife.

#184 | POSTED BY HANS AT 2019-01-16 11:25 AM |

A rusty one. He's never had a tetanus shot in his entire life.

#186 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-16 11:34 AM | Reply | Funny: 2

"In order to keep people from overthrowing them, the plutocrats need us fighting amongst ourselves"

Princess Aura agrees: youtu.be

#187 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2019-01-16 11:35 AM | Reply

"Is that what you want?"

I think most women want what Bernie has said:

"We can't just talk about ending sexism and discrimination. It must be a reality in our daily lives... . Clearly we need a cultural revolution in this country to change workplace attitudes and behavior. I intend in every way to be actively involved in that process," Sanders wrote.

twitter.com

#188 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-16 11:41 AM | Reply

Ok, i just watched the ad.

Essentially Gilette is saying to not bully or sexually harass people.

Who is offended by this, and why?

#189 | Posted by JOE at 2019-01-16 11:42 AM | Reply

"Ok, i just watched the ad."

But you commented that it wasn't offensive 2.5 hours ago =)

#190 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 11:49 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Could you break that 90%(of assaults) down by race, ethnicity and social class?

#40 | Posted by visitor_

Nope. It might offend some Democrat voter demographic.

#191 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-16 11:51 AM | Reply

Please learn to read.

#173 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY AT 2019-01-16 09:59 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

My comment still stands. Just think about the accusation you are making.

#192 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 11:51 AM | Reply

"We can't just talk about ending sexism and discrimination. It must be a reality in our daily lives... . Clearly we need a cultural revolution in this country to change workplace attitudes and behavior. I intend in every way to be actively involved in that process," Sanders wrote.

twitter.com

#188 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday

That is very different from saying masculinity itself is a problem.

#193 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-16 11:53 AM | Reply

"A rusty one. He's never had a tetanus shot in his entire life." - #186 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-16 11:34 AM

Frank Cotton uses his lockjaw as a nutcracker.

#194 | Posted by Hans at 2019-01-16 11:54 AM | Reply

"#BelieveButInvestigage or #BelieveButVerify"

It is way too early for that. Go look at the video in the "fast food at the WH" videos to see how far the culture needs to proceed.

#195 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 11:56 AM | Reply

"That is very different from saying masculinity itself is a problem."

Saying toxic masculinity is a problem is very different from saying masculinity is a problem. Bullying and sexual harassment fall under the former category, not the latter. You are conflating the two and then pretending everyone else is as well.

#196 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-16 11:59 AM | Reply

"Just think about the accusation you are making. "

I repeat: My observation was about the response to the ads, not about the content of those ads:

"Not since the Nike Kaepernick ad has there been such a hullabaloo over a commercial."

Saying there was a hullaballoo over both commercials is an observation, not an accusation, and I don't see how anyone can deny the response to both ads was intense.

#197 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-16 12:06 PM | Reply

But you commented that it wasn't offensive 2.5 hours ago =)

Nah, i just made fun of people who get offended by ads.

#198 | Posted by JOE at 2019-01-16 12:15 PM | Reply

"Ok, i just watched the ad."

But you commented that it wasn't offensive 2.5 hours ago =)

Joe was told to not be offended by DailyHuffThinkMediaAlterKosPoProgressMattersNet right before he posted that, but he had to confirm his bias for himself.

#199 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-01-16 12:15 PM | Reply

"From today on, we pledge to actively challenge the stereotypes and expectations of what it means to be a man everywhere you see Gillette. In the ads we run, the images we publish to social media, the words we choose, and so much more."

All that will happen are new behaviors that then become new stereotypes. And then in 100 years those stereotypes become a problem and another company does the same thing. Stereotypes aren't the problem. Nothing is a stereotype unless it has some truth or reality to it. You can't say "Black people sure love refrigerators" and think that is a stereotype. The problem is how 21st century society reacts to stereotypes, not that stereotypes exist.

But the worst part of Gilette's ad is (other than the super obvious brand exposure that the media is giving it) that ANYTHING toxic is bad. Toxic is a word that is used to describe something synonymously as bad. Toxic masculinity, toxic feminism, toxic peanut butter cups, etc....all are used to describe something as bad in some way. So for a company to be fighting against anything toxic shouldn't be praised, it should be the status quo.

#200 | Posted by humtake at 2019-01-16 12:20 PM | Reply

"It is way too early for that."

I know. I remember the article you posted a while back about Margaret Atwood coming under attack because she dared question some conclusion arrived at by the #metoo movement in Canada. When the author of "The Handmaid's Tale" is brought to task for voicing an opinion inconsistent with the most strident #metoo movement folks, you know it is way too soon. Alas.

#201 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-16 12:27 PM | Reply

But you commented that it wasn't offensive 2.5 hours ago =)

#190 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER

I did no such thing. I made no comment about the video until I watched it; you can literally scroll up from here and read my posts. I simply answered a Jeffj query. Regardless, I could have told you 20 years ago that a Gillette commercial will never offend me.

#202 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2019-01-16 12:42 PM | Reply

#190 My bad Bruce, I thought that was a quote of my #109.

#203 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2019-01-16 12:43 PM | Reply

#199 If you're incapable of making the distinction between poking fun at people who get offended by ads, and actually commenting on a specific ad, i wonder how you make it through the day.

#204 | Posted by JOE at 2019-01-16 12:44 PM | Reply

Saying toxic masculinity is a problem is very different from saying masculinity is a problem. Bullying and sexual harassment fall under the former category, not the latter. You are conflating the two and then pretending everyone else is as well.

#196 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday

Saying a high degree of masculinity is toxic is in itself sexist messaging.

What would we say about a woman who had a high degree of femininity?

#205 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-16 12:52 PM | Reply

Saying a high degree of masculinity is toxic is in itself sexist messaging.
What would we say about a woman who had a high degree of femininity?

If "a high degree of femininity" led to bullying, sexua assault, and apologetic rhetoric therefor, I would expect us to say the same thing about it.

As it stands, a "high degree of femininity" is not particularly dangerous to society.

#206 | Posted by JOE at 2019-01-16 12:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Stereotypes.

Is it a "stereotype" that the ghetto is a dangerous place? Why cant we attack THAT "stereotype"?

I know, I know, "Boaz you are a black-hater, Oreo, Uncle Tom" blah, blah, blah...

#207 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-16 12:56 PM | Reply

"Saying a high degree of masculinity is toxic is in itself sexist messaging.

What would we say about a woman who had a high degree of femininity?"

Please define the terms "high degree of masculinity" and "high degree of femininity" as I am unfamiliar with both. In addition, please provide links to examples of people saying "a high degree of masculinity is toxic." Also, please cite examples in the Gillette ad that claim "a high degree of masculinity is toxic." Thanks.

#208 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-16 12:57 PM | Reply

Saying a high degree of masculinity is toxic is in itself sexist messaging.

What would we say about a woman who had a high degree of femininity?

#205 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2019-01-16 12:52 PM | FLAG:

Gibberish

#209 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-16 01:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If "a high degree of femininity" led to bullying, sexua assault, and apologetic rhetoric therefor, I would expect us to say the same thing about it.

As it stands, a "high degree of femininity" is not particularly dangerous to society.

#206 | Posted by JOE

------- men harm people via bullying, physical abuse, sexual assault, corporate corruption, and using the powers of the state.

------- women harm people via bullying, emotional abuse, sexual manipulation, corporate corruption, and using the powers of the state.

This mass delusion that men are more evil than women is only going to make more men vote for people like trump.

#210 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-16 01:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

This mass delusion that men are more evil than women is only going to make more men vote for people like trump.

I'm sure we could look at statistics to find out which gender commits the overwhelming majority of sex crimes. Are you really going to demand we waste our time with that, or will you concede that sexual aggression is primarily a male trait that, when exercised in its "highest degree," is dangerous?

#211 | Posted by JOE at 2019-01-16 01:09 PM | Reply

#211,

Define "sexual aggression"..

#212 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-16 01:10 PM | Reply

If Hitler and Stalin and Pol Pot were women they would have killed the same number of people.

The mass delusion that in order to be evil you need to be violent is only gonna make more women vote for people like Trump.

#213 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2019-01-16 01:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

""sexual aggression""

Boaz' definition of female sexual aggression: Forcefully doing nothing while a man rips off your clothes and penetrates you while demanding him to stop.

#214 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2019-01-16 01:19 PM | Reply

I'm sure we could look at statistics to find out which gender commits the overwhelming majority of sex crimes. Are you really going to demand we waste our time with that, or will you concede that sexual aggression is primarily a male trait that, when exercised in its "highest degree," is dangerous?

#211 | Posted by JOE

Yes if you narrow bad behavior down to only sex crimes, you will find that men are far worse offenders, but that's due to the biology of human reproduction, not because women are ethically or morally superior.

As a non-rapist male, this doesnt affect me. But fanning the flames of a gender war DOES affect me because it creates more trump-type supporters, which is the last thing this country needs.

If liberals want people to vote for their candidates, they really need to knock off the mass "men are evil and women are the solution" sexism.

#215 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-16 01:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

If you're incapable of making the distinction between poking fun at people who get offended by ads, and actually commenting on a specific ad, i wonder how you make it through the day.

Just poking fun at you Joe, don't go all Spoofy on me like he (and the rest of the SJWs) did in response to my #102 (especially since I never commented on this particular ad until I agreed with Bruce in my #114).

And BTW, I agree with your #206, well said.

#216 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-01-16 01:22 PM | Reply

Speaking of sexual aggression...

Ocasio-Cortez: We're going to "run train on the progressive agenda"

#217 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-01-16 01:26 PM | Reply

Yes if you narrow bad behavior down to only sex crimes, you will find that men are far worse offenders

Nobody said sex crimes were the only bad behavior, or that masculinity was responsible for all forms of bad behavior. It can be the cause of a few types of bad behavior and we can tak about that.

but that's due to the biology of human reproduction, not because women are ethically or morally superior.

I agree and i never said otherwise. And i don't see how that distinction helps your argument.

fanning the flames of a gender war DOES affect me because it creates more trump-type supporters, which is the last thing this country needs.

If a man decides to vote for Trump because of a razor ad, i don't realy give a ----. I think the net benefit of having these conversations, both in terms of educating our kids and ferreting out the douchebags of our society, far outweigh the risk of converting people into Trump supporters.

#218 | Posted by JOE at 2019-01-16 01:29 PM | Reply

Joe,

I think what Speaks is driving at is the left's and Democratic Party's relentless employment of identity politics to the nth degree is turning people off and driving away moderates.

#219 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-16 01:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I haven't misunderstood where he's coming from.

Also, no moderate person votes for Donald Trump.

#220 | Posted by JOE at 2019-01-16 01:40 PM | Reply

If a man decides to vote for Trump because of a razor ad, i don't realy give a ----. I think the net benefit of having these conversations, both in terms of educating our kids and ferreting out the douchebags of our society, far outweigh the risk of converting people into Trump supporters.

#218 | Posted by JOE

It's not just this razor ad, it's a mass movement ever since harvey weinstein and #metoo.
This razor ad is just a company trying to profit from it.

I've seen liberal friends recently post crap like "It's time for men to step aside and let women run things."
Really? Women like sarah palin, jan brewer, kelly anne conway, betsey devos, and sarah huckabee sanders?

People are getting dopamine injections to their brain by jumping on the scold-train and pointing to people who everyone agrees are "bad".

This is how one of the democrats' best senators was removed from his job for taking a funny picture. Democrats think they are going to benefit politically by making more women vote for them if they declare war on men. But the women were going to vote for them anyway. All they're doing is making fewer men feel welcome in the party, which is a victory for republicans.

#221 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-16 01:51 PM | Reply

Also, no moderate person votes for Donald Trump.

#220 | Posted by JOE

Uninformed moderate people do. If all you know about politics is one party is telling you you're evil and the other party isn't, who would you vote for?

#222 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-16 01:53 PM | Reply

#221 You're straying dramatically from what we were taking about (whether masculinity in its most severe forms is problematic). I don't really care about what your liberal friends say on facebook so i suppose the conversation can end.

Uninformed moderate people do.

If you don't know what guns do and you shoot someone with one, you're still a felon.

#223 | Posted by JOE at 2019-01-16 01:58 PM | Reply

I followed the first bunch of posts on this thread - I am amazed at how many it has brought. I could care less about the ad but I analyzed it because of the uproar. I see both sides of this argument very well.

A big progressive message seems to be men and women are not just equal but in effect the same. Should the be treated equally? Certainly. So aren't men and women the same? LMAO - no of course not. And in fact that ad is saying they are not. That's just utter BS to think they are the same. I am progressive in my beliefs but no 2 people are the same and the two main physical sexes are VERY different. It is basic biology period. Sure there are women who act more like men and men that act more like women but the same? No. You can generalize/stereotype the sexes for sure - the ad does that and I hope without intending to but don't believe it.

Were Gillete's ads ever "toxic" masculinity or did they sell that? Not that I can remember, like most advertising they sold their product with "sex appeal". They certainly didn't sell negative ideas from my perspective about masculinity or the ugly side of what human beings sometimes are. It also doesn't seem to be what they are saying either.

That said the WHOLE approach of the ad we are discussing was wrong. I think some of it is perspective. As a man, I am going to tell you the text certainly comes across as an attack on men in general. Textually it lumps all men together and doesn't just say "we can do better and should strive to" rather its subtext comes across as "men fit a streotype, we are bad and need to change" because it brings up negatives. I am not one of the stereotypes they seem to lump men under but many men do fall into the "category" they talk about - I will not argue that at all.

And women should have been brought up in this dialog as well. Yes Gillette sells and markets to women too. Sorry but I don't think it's a razor company's business to sell the thought - I much prefer they exercise responsible manufacturing and business practices and sell that. However if that's what they want their message to be - ok, it's fine that they want to be more socially responsible and promote positive change but they SHOULD be selling we can all do better and strive to be better people instead of bringing up "negatives". Messaging 101.

I don't think Gillette ever sold "boys will be boys" in their advertising to begin with. As far as that goes, should that ever be an excuse for abhorrent behavior? Hell no. It is slowly being driven out of society - and I agree that we can all do better. Where I work sadly, it is still sometimes used by management in what I see as moments of weakness or unwillingness to act on bad behavior. It has improved dramatically over time but still sometimes rears its head.

Honestly a topic of conversation lately in my circle is see as related is my group has been discussing no matter where we go or what level we achieve or how old we are - we never really leave high school...

#224 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2019-01-16 02:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#221 You're straying dramatically from what we were taking about (whether masculinity in its most severe forms is problematic).
#223 | Posted by JOE

This ad suggests that a guy who sees a pretty woman on the street and tries to approach her is a SEVERE form of TOXIC masculinity. His "woke" buddy has to stop him and say "whoa that's not ok bro!"

It wasn't a boss promising a woman a raise if she sleeps with him. It wasn't sexual assualt or even sexual harassment.

Men trying to talk to women is how human courtship works. It's now being demonized and is heading in the direction of being criminalized.

Again, I am in a happy relationship and not a rapist, so this doesn't affect me, other than to make my other political priorities less likely to be achieved because men are going to stop voting for a party that tells them they're evil.

#225 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-16 02:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I think what Speaks is driving at is the left's and Democratic Party's relentless employment of identity politics to the nth degree is turning people off and driving away moderates"

Or it could simply be the choice between 2 unbelievably unappealing politicians and being told all your life that you have to vote for the "lesser of the two evils" and coming to the conclusion that, as long as you aren't on the verge of suicide and bombs aren't exploding over your head that you just don't ------- care anymore so you choose the most obnoxious and nihilistic of the two-- solely for entertainment purposes.

#226 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2019-01-16 02:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

This ad suggests that a guy who sees a pretty woman on the street and tries to approach her is a SEVERE form of TOXIC masculinity. His "woke" buddy has to stop him and say "whoa that's not ok bro!"
...
Men trying to talk to women is how human courtship works. It's now being demonized and is heading in the direction of being criminalized.

That was definitely the worst part of the ad.

#227 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-16 02:17 PM | Reply

They should play this ad in Saudi Arabia lol.

#228 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-01-16 02:35 PM | Reply

"Say no to Toxic Islam. Your wife is not property!"

#229 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2019-01-16 02:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

As a non-rapist male, this doesnt affect me. But fanning the flames of a gender war DOES affect me because it creates more trump-type supporters, which is the last thing this country needs.
If liberals want people to vote for their candidates, they really need to knock off the mass "men are evil and women are the solution" sexism.

You are as much responsible for fanning the flames of a gender war as anyone posting here since you insist one making claims like this one. Liberals are not en masse saying "men are evil and women are the solution", but thanks for doing your part to convince others that this is indeed the case.

#230 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-16 03:09 PM | Reply

"Liberals are not en masse saying "men are evil and women are the solution""

???? Yes they are.

#231 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 03:14 PM | Reply

Yes they are.

#231 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER AT 2019-01-16 03:14 PM | FLAG:

Citation needed.

#232 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-16 03:15 PM | Reply

Whether you like this advertisement or hate this advertisement.

One thing is clear.

People are talking about it and Gillette.

So. For a commercial. It's been very successful.

I wonder if it's helped their sales.

#233 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-01-16 03:17 PM | Reply

Imagine a young man who doesn't pay much attention to politics and is just forming his first political opinions.
Team A is telling him he's a barely controllable rape monster who can't be trusted and must control his evil instincts.
Team B is telling him that team A is a bunch of crazy crybabies and there's nothing wrong with him.
Who do you think this young man is more likely to vote for?
This manufactured war on men only makes more trump voters. Is that what you want?

Imagine a young woman who doesn't pay much attention to politics and is just forming her first political opinions.

Some people are claiming Team A is saying that if you speak up about sexual harassment it means you are saying all men are evil and can't be trusted.

Team B is telling her that team A is a bunch of crazy crybabies, and there's nothing wrong with sexual harassment because "locker room talk" and "boys will be boys."

Who do you think this young woman is more likely to vote for?

This manufactured war on liberals only makes women more likely not to vote for men in general or not to vote at all. Is that what you want?

#234 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-16 03:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

PLUMBER: So your pipes were clogged with Gillette razors, Nike socks, and Keurig K-cups. Does your son by any chance like to --

MOM: He likes to own the libs, yes.

#235 | Posted by JOE at 2019-01-16 03:24 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

"Again, I am in a happy relationship and not a rapist, so this doesn't affect me, other than to make my other political priorities less likely to be achieved because men are going to stop voting for a party that tells them they're evil."

Sexual harassment doesn't usually involve rape (although it can). You yourself are making your political priorities less likely to be achieved, if you continue to demonize liberals across the board and make false statements about their priorities and concerns.

#236 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-16 03:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I think what Speaks is driving at is the left's and Democratic Party's relentless employment of identity politics to the nth degree is turning people off and driving away moderates."

Trump is driving the right and the Republican party with his relentless employment of identity politics to the nth degree. Hopefully it will turn moderates off. It seemed to in the midterm elections, but we'll see.

#237 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-16 03:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

This is not a lib vs con thing

#238 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 03:39 PM | Reply

I'm glad it sparked a discussion, but it's revealing how much contempt there is for men right now.

Ironically, the "suck it up buttercup" thing is what the commercial is against.

#239 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 03:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"This is how one of the democrats' best senators was removed from his job for taking a funny picture. Democrats think they are going to benefit politically by making more women vote for them if they declare war on men. But the women were going to vote for them anyway. All they're doing is making fewer men feel welcome in the party, which is a victory for republicans."

A lot of politicians on the left jumped the gun on that one, IMO:

Here is a list of the [33] Democratic senators and Independents who caucus with the Democrats urging Franken to step aside, as of 5:30 p.m.:

Maggie Hassan, New Hampshire
Kamala Harris, California
Bob Casey, Pennsylvania
Joe Donnelly, Indiana
Sherrod Brown, Ohio
Heidi Heitkamp, North Dakota
Debbie Stabenow, Michigan
Ed Markey, Massachusetts
Maria Cantwell, Washington
Tammy Baldwin, Wisconsin
Chris Murphy, Connecticut
Tom Udall, New Mexico
Dick Durbin, Illinois
Patrick Leahy, Vermont
Tom Carper, Delaware
Dianne Feinstein, California
Michael Bennet, Colorado
Martin Heinrich, New Mexico
Tammy Duckworth, Illinois
Jeff Merkley, Oregon
Ron Wyden, Oregon
Elizabeth Warren, Massachusetts
Cory Booker, New Jersey
Gary Peters, Michigan
Jon Tester, Montana
Sheldon Whitehouse, Rhode Island
Bernie Sanders, Vermont (Independent)
Angus King, Maine (Independent)

www.cbsnews.com

#240 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-16 03:57 PM | Reply

"I think this commercial, without intending to, portrays men as inherently dangerous."

Well, maybe that's just a reflection of the fact that men are inherently dangerous, possibly without intending to be.
Was Lenny in Of Mice and Men inherently dangerous? The only sensible answer is Yes.
Read above and you'll see Boaz saying rape is the natural order of the world. How is that not an inherently dangerous world view?

Women are also inherently dangerous, but the statistics suggest men are a lot more inherently dangerous. Especially to women, but also to men and children.

#241 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-16 04:00 PM | Reply

"This is not a lib vs con thing"

It's a solid proxy for that.

#242 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-16 04:01 PM | Reply

"Well, maybe that's just a reflection of the fact that men are inherently dangerous, possibly without intending to be."

And that's why George Zimmerman is free.

Great job Snoofy.

#243 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 04:15 PM | Reply

Stand your ground,right?

#244 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 04:16 PM | Reply

People are getting dopamine injections to their brain by jumping on the scold-train and pointing to people who everyone agrees are "bad".

The most interesting comments come in discussions of people not everyone agrees are bad. Take the debate over Franken that Gillibrand's presidential announcement has stirred up:

Kirsten Gillibrand announces presidential bid -- and Al Franken diehards are salty

www.dailydot.com

Wow, so anyone who criticizes Gillibrand's rush to judgment with regard to Franken is "the rotten part of the Democratic establishment"?:

Nate Silver @NateSilver538

I don't know what her chances as a presidential contender are... but no better way to detect the rotten part of the Democratic establishment than to find the folks who blamed Kirsten Gillibrand for Al Franken's problems.
10:20 AM - Jan 11, 2019

You should stick to prognostications, Nate. This debate within the Democratic party isn't over yet, nor should it be.

#245 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-16 04:16 PM | Reply

"And that's why George Zimmerman is free."

LOL!!!

Martin acted like any hunted animal always does, which is fight or flight.
He chose to fight, and he brought fists to a gun fight, and he lost.
I'd say both were being pretty toxic, but only one wanted to kill, and it wasn't Martin.

Stand Your Ground wasn't part of the Zimmerman defense, which I'm sure you probably know, but if you want to argue that Stand Your Ground enshrines bad behavior, you won't get any argument from me.

#246 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-16 04:28 PM | Reply

"Team A is telling him he's a barely controllable rape monster who can't be trusted and must control his evil instincts."

Team A is Boaz???

#247 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-16 04:30 PM | Reply

PS By the debate within the Democratic party I don't mean the debate about Franken per se. I mean the debate about whether we are going to be the party of #WeBelieveWomen, period, even if that means a rush to judgement or whether we are going to be the party of #WeBelieveWomen and #BelieveButVerify.

#248 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-16 04:31 PM | Reply

Any men here who took the concept of "affirmative consent" seriously at age 18?
BruceBanner?

#249 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-16 04:31 PM | Reply

What?

#250 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 04:56 PM | Reply

I turned 39 recently and grew up in Canada. I grew up with affirmative consent.

#251 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 04:58 PM | Reply

I told you this

#252 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 04:58 PM | Reply

Not to move it off Gillette, but I'm sick of the entire argument about "toxic masculinity."

Everything "toxic" are the things that have allowed us to survive and evolve for billions of years from the first cells that started feeding on each other. Aggression and competitiveness allowed for hunting, for pushing each other to be stronger, to survive. Stoicism again, allows survival in harsh circumstances, not giving up no matter the odds. Sexual aggression literally continues the species.

We are an animal. Now, I'm not arguing that most of the traits listed as toxic masculinity are bad when they are continuous, when they are are the way one operates constantly. But again, we are an animal. We have maybe a century of technology separating us from nature, we're one good solar flare away at all times from learning how tenuous our hold on this lifestyle is were the infrastructure supporting it to go down. Compare that to not centuries, not millennia, not even millions of years, but billions of years of survival of the fittest. Where we had to balance hanging in there together as a social animal with facing the brutality of nature head on and succeeding on its terms.

In other words, these things termed "toxic masculinity" are not bad things - what they are rather, are traits that have a time and place. Less of a time and place in our society, but that doesn't mean they can be simply discarded over a few short generations after the whole of history building them up, nor even that they should be.

In this, I think a lot of progressives are just another religious cult, same as the ones they deride otherwise. It's a dogma, a belief in what "should" be, regardless of what reality is. A failure to see us as the animal we are. A lack of nuance, black and white, good and evil style simplistic thinking.

They aren't making themselves any friends and allies any more than the old "moral majority" busybodies and holier-than-thou do-gooders they have replaced were. I can't even tell the difference.

#253 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2019-01-16 04:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

You're a pos for saying Trayvon Martin deserved to die.

#254 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 04:59 PM | Reply

"Everything "toxic" are the things that have allowed us to survive and evolve for billions of years from the first cells that started feeding on each other."

Slow down, cowpoke!

You make it sound like it's only toxic things have allowed us to survive. You're ignoring things like time and resources invested in nurturing our young, which is what really separates mammals from other animals.

And when you say "us" you are referring to the human genome, which is a whole lot more "We are all one" than humans apply in everyday life.

#255 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-16 05:02 PM | Reply

Toxic masculinity is a term that used to be called other things. Never has it equated to manhood.

#256 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 05:03 PM | Reply

"You're a pos for saying Trayvon Martin deserved to die."

I didn't say he deserved to die.
I said he chose to fight, and he lost the fight.
I would also say he probably wouldn't have chose to fight if he knew his hunter was armed, but that's not the way it went down.

#257 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-16 05:03 PM | Reply

"I turned 39 recently and grew up in Canada. I grew up with affirmative consent."

Uh huh, and how many Canadians do you see shooting up their schools?

#258 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-16 05:04 PM | Reply

In other words, these things termed "toxic masculinity" are not bad things - what they are rather, are traits that have a time and place. Less of a time and place in our society, but that doesn't mean they can be simply discarded over a few short generations after the whole of history building them up, nor even that they should be.

What Christine Ford said Kav did to her in that upstairs bedroom is an example of toxic masculinity. In what time and place would that behavior not be considered a bad thing? Or maybe it isn't a question of time and place but a question of who? An easy way to determine if something is an example of toxic masculinity is to imagine a woman or girl you love (mother, daughter, sister, wife, friend etc.) and then ask yourself, "How would I feel if this beloved female was subjected to this form of masculinity? If you would be cool with the behavior, it probably isn't toxic masculinity. If you wouldn't be cool with it, it probably is. Then check with your beloved female just to be sure she agrees with your assessment.

#259 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-16 05:34 PM | Reply

"How would I feel if this beloved female was subjected to this form of masculinity?"

Especially if the behavior was carried out by a man other than yourself. Some men, for example, may believe you can't rape your own wife, but do these same men really think that another man expressing his sexual aggression by raping another man's wife is not a bad thing given the proper time and place, perhaps during wartime?

#260 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-16 05:44 PM | Reply

Not to move it off Gillette, but I'm sick of the entire argument about "toxic masculinity."
Everything "toxic" are the things that have allowed us to survive and evolve for billions of years from the first cells that started feeding on each other. Aggression and competitiveness allowed for hunting, for pushing each other to be stronger, to survive. Stoicism again, allows survival in harsh circumstances, not giving up no matter the odds. Sexual aggression literally continues the species.
We are an animal. Now, I'm not arguing that most of the traits listed as toxic masculinity are bad when they are continuous, when they are are the way one operates constantly. But again, we are an animal. We have maybe a century of technology separating us from nature, we're one good solar flare away at all times from learning how tenuous our hold on this lifestyle is were the infrastructure supporting it to go down. Compare that to not centuries, not millennia, not even millions of years, but billions of years of survival of the fittest. Where we had to balance hanging in there together as a social animal with facing the brutality of nature head on and succeeding on its terms.
In other words, these things termed "toxic masculinity" are not bad things - what they are rather, are traits that have a time and place. Less of a time and place in our society, but that doesn't mean they can be simply discarded over a few short generations after the whole of history building them up, nor even that they should be.
In this, I think a lot of progressives are just another religious cult, same as the ones they deride otherwise. It's a dogma, a belief in what "should" be, regardless of what reality is. A failure to see us as the animal we are. A lack of nuance, black and white, good and evil style simplistic thinking.
They aren't making themselves any friends and allies any more than the old "moral majority" busybodies and holier-than-thou do-gooders they have replaced were. I can't even tell the difference.
#253 | Posted by zeropointnrg

That's some long winded excuse making.

There is no time and place for

1. Rape
2. Sexual assault
3. Sexual harrassment
4. Bullying
5. Abuse of gays
6. Abuse of trans people
7. Abuse of weaker individuals

and

8. Encouraging said behaviors

Yes it is simplistic, because often right and wrong is just plain simple.

If you don't get that, you might be a simpleton.

#261 | Posted by truthhurts at 2019-01-16 05:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

This ad suggests that a guy who sees a pretty woman on the street and tries to approach her is a SEVERE form of TOXIC masculinity. His "woke" buddy has to stop him and say "whoa that's not ok bro!"
It wasn't a boss promising a woman a raise if she sleeps with him. It wasn't sexual assualt or even sexual harassment.
Men trying to talk to women is how human courtship works. It's now being demonized and is heading in the direction of being criminalized.
Again, I am in a happy relationship and not a rapist, so this doesn't affect me, other than to make my other political priorities less likely to be achieved because men are going to stop voting for a party that tells them they're evil.
#225 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

People are morons.

THE AD DOES NOT SAY THAT approaching a woman IS TOXIC. IT SAYS HARRASSING HER IS TOXIC.

Either educate yourself or shut the ---- up.

#262 | Posted by truthhurts at 2019-01-16 06:05 PM | Reply

"What Christine Ford said Kav did to her in that upstairs bedroom is an example of toxic masculinity."

Pretty much his whole yearbook is.
Especially Renate Alumnus and FFFF.

"Some men, for example, may believe you can't rape your own wife, "

For example, President Donald J. Trump, who forcibly penetrated beautiful Ivanka Trump's mother, without her consent and against her will.
That was not rape, according to the legal definition of rape in New Jersey at the time, because they were married.

#263 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-16 06:11 PM | Reply

"This ad suggests that a guy who sees a pretty woman on the street and tries to approach her is a SEVERE form of TOXIC masculinity."

You must be fun at parties.

#264 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-16 06:12 PM | Reply

#261 | Posted by truthhurts

I know I am putting words in his mouth but I think zeropointnrg would agree that in today's society that is true. That doesn't address the realities of our evolution though.

In a nutshell, Darwinism is the theory that the strong will survive. As Human beings we are not immune to Darwin's theories. Those things have likely been seen as wrong by most humans for a very long time and NOW we have come to a point in our society that stamping them out is a function of Darwinism. It's called domestication. Humans have become domesticated to one degree or another. We will continue to become more domesticated as time passes.

#265 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2019-01-16 06:23 PM | Reply

Schick should hire Ben Roethlisberger as their spokesman and they'd surely pick off some of the outraged Gillette customers.

All the guys who decry the "identity politics" Gillette is engaged in here would identify with it too!

#266 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-16 06:24 PM | Reply

"Darwinism is the theory that the strong will survive. "

No it's not.

Darwin's theory is, the one who succeeds in providing your wife with a child? His genes, and your wife's, will survive.

Stop the Social Darwin insanity.

#267 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-16 06:26 PM | Reply

You're also a pos for calling Trayvon an animal.

You are disgusting.

#268 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 06:34 PM | Reply

Gillete: "Be the best man you can be."

Insecure men: "Stop attacking me!"

Look. If you're not a bully. If you teach your kids not to fight. If you're not the type of person to harass women.

Then perhaps this commercial wasn't talking about you.

Take a deep breath and stop worrying about an advertisement for a razor.

#269 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-01-16 06:37 PM | Reply

"Then perhaps this commercial wasn't talking about you."

Maybe. Who knows?

#270 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 07:01 PM | Reply

If you don't get that, you might be a simpleton.

#261 | Posted by truthhurts

I think I get it!!

So what you are saying that Rape is definitely out?

No more rape? No mouth Rape, No Ass Rape? Not even a little Rape? Not even if no one is looking a little Rape and run?

That's stupid.

also this "no abuse of weaker individuals"...

How in the hell do you steal cheat and rob without abusing people. Huh Smart boy?

Tell me that! You are taking our jobs!

Stupid liberals.

Ruining everything.

#271 | Posted by donnerboy at 2019-01-16 07:13 PM | Reply

"You're also a pos for calling Trayvon an animal.
You are disgusting.
#268 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER"

LOL. I said "Martin acted like any hunted animal always does, which is fight or flight."
Humans, being animals, definitely experience the fight or flight response.
If I said anything wrong, it was that any hunted animal always responds that way; probably an overstatement.
But it is certainly how humans respond.

Are you, like, trying to be toxic at me? Is that your angle here?

#272 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-16 07:20 PM | Reply

The feigned stupidity is weak Snoofy.

#273 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 07:22 PM | Reply

#273

It's not feigned. Long and frequent history.

#274 | Posted by willowby at 2019-01-16 07:27 PM | Reply

Being toxic at me it is, then.

Please pass the Skittles.

#275 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-16 07:27 PM | Reply

Willowby here thinks Zimmerman was justified to hunt and kill Martin.
I don't.
Perhaps that will help separate the men from the boys, as it were.

#276 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-16 07:28 PM | Reply

Talking out your *** again snoofy.

#277 | Posted by willowby at 2019-01-16 07:38 PM | Reply

It was you, Snoofy, who went there. Don't deny the comparisons you made just upthread.

#278 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 07:46 PM | Reply

Imagine a young woman who doesn't pay much attention to politics and is just forming her first political opinions.

Some people are claiming Team A is saying that if you speak up about sexual harassment it means you are saying all men are evil and can't be trusted.

Team B is telling her that team A is a bunch of crazy crybabies, and there's nothing wrong with sexual harassment because "locker room talk" and "boys will be boys."

Who do you think this young woman is more likely to vote for?

This manufactured war on liberals only makes women more likely not to vote for men in general or not to vote at all. Is that what you want?

#234 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday

Problem is, a lot of women think #metoo has gone overboard as well. Libs are now alienating all kinds of different voters in order to appeal to hard core man haters.

#279 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-16 07:47 PM | Reply

What Christine Ford said Kav did to her in that upstairs bedroom is an example of toxic masculinity.

#259 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday

That much I can agree with. But that's not what is in this ad. This ad features a guy trying to talk to a pretty girl on the street and his "woke" buddy preventing from committing that horrible sin.

#280 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-16 07:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What Christine Ford said Kav did to her in that upstairs bedroom is an example of toxic masculinity.
#259 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday

No. That is called rape.

#281 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 07:50 PM | Reply

"It was you, Snoofy, who went there. Don't deny the comparisons you made just upthread.
#278 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER"

Not really.
You brought up Martin.
I put Martin and Zimmerman in context.
In my mind they were both pretty toxic.
As you'll recall, Martin's girlfriend that suggested Zimmerman was following him because Zimmerman was gay, at which point Trayvon turned back to confront the man hunting him.

"No. That is called rape."

I wouldn't call it rape unless there was some manner of penetration.
It was at best attempted rape, and even that's pushing it.

Anyway.
You gonna hog that iced tea all day, nilla?

#282 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-16 08:09 PM | Reply

"Talking out your *** again snoofy.
#277 | POSTED BY WILLOWBY"

Oink oink, little piggie!

#283 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-16 08:10 PM | Reply

#267 | Posted by snoofy

You're correct - it's the most adaptable will survive. It's often paraphrased as the strong will survive and in my haste that's what I typed even though I know it is blatantly incorrect and if you note my explanation you would understand I understand the theory. I read quite a bit about this a while back. Self-domestication - look it up. Once desirable traits are now highly undesirable. Many are things that express themselves in unpleasant ways.

#284 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2019-01-16 08:32 PM | Reply

"Problem is, a lot of women think #metoo has gone overboard as well. Libs are now alienating all kinds of different voters in order to appeal to hard core man haters."

And a lot of those women (and men) are liberals. Duh! You are acting like all liberals agree on this issue, which is BS, which means your whole argument is BS.

#285 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-16 09:20 PM | Reply

#285 Check out the "Kirsten Gillibrand announces presidential bid -- and Al Franken diehards are salty" article I linked to in #245 for examples of liberals saying, you've gone too far.

#286 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-16 09:31 PM | Reply

"Oppressed groups have gone too far in combatting their oppression!"

...say the same privileged people who don't want to look too hard at a status quo that benefits them.

#287 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-16 09:37 PM | Reply

GalaxiePete thank you for clarifying.

I thought it was pretty much understood that society has already constructed socially acceptable avenues for these things to express themselves in hopefully less pleasant ways, e.g. if you are a violent aggressive person, you should engage in physically demanding competitive sport. A less successful example is if you are a gay Catholic, become a Catholic priest, which is separate but probably not completely unrelated from the even less successful example of if you are a pedophile who seeks access to children, you can piggyback on the goodwill of parents who want their kids to be around teachers and priests. That last thing is perfectly acceptable from an evolutionary perspective; I mean, provided it succeeds as a trait, and I happen to think it succeeds quite well, as so many perpetrators of child sexual abuse were themselves abused.

Evolution, we are to believe, is why the walrus males fight it out to mate with the walrus females, which you'd think would give rise to bigger and bigger male walruses. But while the big ones are busy fighting, a little one sneaks up and mates. (Coincidentally, I think this is how most politicians rise to power.)

I prefer to focus more on how an undesirable trait leads to action and behavior, and what to do about that, rather than try to explain away or excuse the fact that such things exist. I think this ad is trying to do the former. I think its detractors are trying to do the latter.

My conversation with BruceBanner is like a pedestrian and a driver arguing about who has right of way in a crosswalk. Would you rather be right and dead or wrong and alive? Wrong is going to win that argument in all but the most exceptional circumstances, which most of us hope to never face. Certainly not worth getting run over just to prove you're right. This is what got Martin killed, more or less.

#288 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-16 09:38 PM | Reply

"Problem is, a lot of women think #metoo has gone overboard as well. Libs are now alienating all kinds of different voters in order to appeal to hard core man haters."

Liberals aren't trying to appeal to hardcore man haters. JFC, what nonsense you are spouting. Although I have criticized Gillibrand, e.g., for what I believe is her rush to judgment approach, I in no way believe she is a hardcore man hater just as I in no way believe she is trying to appeal to that demographic, however miniscule but vocal it might be. She sincerely cares about the #metoo movement and has done a lot of work in the past on bringing to light sexual harassment in the military. I think she has gone too far with her #WeBelieveWomen stance without putting in the proper safeguard of #BelieveButVerify.

#289 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-16 09:50 PM | Reply

#289. Yeah, that's nice and all, but not even close to reality of public perception on this campaign.

There is an ad where the father dances for his son. Everyone loves it. People share it. Guys are proud to say they are silly for their kids. Try that one instead.

#290 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 10:38 PM | Reply

Bruce, the ad you mention sounds nice and all too, but it has nothing to do with the #metoo movement or my comment for that matter.

#291 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-16 10:43 PM | Reply

#288 you're assumptions are all wrong. These traits have failed us? We're the dominant species in this planet. They're very good traits.

Men support families and and nurture children. Men sacrifice a lot for society and don't ask much for it.

The idea that every man is a monster is just stupid.

The #MeToo stats? That's what you're using as evidence men are evil? Not sufficient to say that Al Franken is proof that all men should be caged.

#292 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 10:47 PM | Reply

Evolution, we are to believe, is why the walrus males fight it out to mate with the walrus females, which you'd think would give rise to bigger and bigger male walruses. But while the big ones are busy fighting, a little one sneaks up and mates.

There is a scaling problem ... the larger the slower, so as you state .. the little ones snipe.

But in mammals females tend to shun the smaller males, they want the best genes.....

Some non-mammal species the female is the largest ...

#293 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-01-16 10:49 PM | Reply

"The idea that every man is a monster is just stupid."

It's also a strawman.

#294 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-16 10:49 PM | Reply

#293

Another rightist who flunked secondary school biology. Too bad. So sad.

#295 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-16 10:52 PM | Reply

imgur.com

#296 | Posted by AuntieSocial at 2019-01-16 10:54 PM | Reply

Obviously this is another agenda driven by insane folks with too much money and power. Question is- who is really behind the curtain feeding this crap to MSM and the NFL...

#297 | Posted by AuntieSocial at 2019-01-16 10:59 PM | Reply

"The idea that every man is a monster is just stupid."

It's also a strawman.

#294 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

Maybe.

However you need to come to grips with the fact that 2 of this site's more liberal/progressive posters - Banner and Speaks - come away with the same conclusion regarding this. If this was some knuckle-dragger like me, I can totally understand your derision and dismissiveness. But Banner and Speaks? Come on, man! Also, you won't like Banner when he's angry. Just sayin'

#298 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-16 11:06 PM | Reply

"Maybe."

Nope. Definitely.

#299 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-16 11:09 PM | Reply

"Maybe."

Nope. Definitely.

#299 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

You love being contrarian but rarely express your own personal views.

You would facilitate understanding of your viewpoint(s) tremendously if you were a bit more forthcoming about what you support and do so in a specific manner.

#300 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-16 11:13 PM | Reply

"You love being contrarian but rarely express your own personal views."

My personal view is that you are trying to change the subject.

#301 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-16 11:15 PM | Reply

"Men support families and and nurture children."

Who said they didn't?

"Men sacrifice a lot for society and don't ask much for it."

This is a BS argument. Who asked them to sacrifice anything? Do they sacrifice more than women? Are men owed something from their sacrifice, different from what women are owed for the sacrifices they make?

"The #MeToo stats? That's what you're using as evidence men are evil?"

You could go with war and stuff if you prefer that...

#302 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-16 11:16 PM | Reply

It's also a strawman.

#294 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

Snoofy is making that argument. I was addressing that.

#303 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 11:18 PM | Reply

"This is a BS argument. Who asked them to sacrifice anything? Do they sacrifice more than women? Are men owed something from their sacrifice, different from what women are owed for the sacrifices they make?"

What sacrifice do women make? Don't have kids and don't get married. Lots of women choose that route.

Taking care of your family isn't a burden. It's a joy.

#304 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 11:21 PM | Reply

You could go with war and stuff if you prefer that...

#302 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2019-01-16 11:16 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

War? Supports my argument. Men volunteer to sacrifice their lives for the good of their families and country.

#305 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-16 11:24 PM | Reply

"War? Supports my argument. Men volunteer to sacrifice their lives for the good of their families and country."

Setting aside all the men who didn't volunteer, but got drafted, or kidnapped, like child soldiers in Africa, or American immigrants conscripted on the docks during the Civil War:

Men also avoid getting drafted, and they join the Texas Air National Guard, since they'd rather not sacrifice their own lives, but rather go on to sacrifice others lives in a misguided war.

Now, as for the volunteers, are you willing to accommodate the moral position that volunteering to knowingly kill a bunch of Iraqis who didn't attack us on 9/11 isn't the kind of thing you want to hang your hat on, when it comes to saying how you've overcome man's innate urges for violence and learned to act civilized?

#306 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-17 12:27 AM | Reply

"Taking care of your family isn't a burden. It's a joy."

Sure, and rape babies are gifts from G-d.

That's your judgment, and not yours to make for someone else.
That being said, taking care of your family is both.
It is not unfair to say mammals are burdened with providing for their young.
A burden is an obligation.
A joy is an emotion.

That's why tacking care of your family can be both, and I'm sort of not going to engage in what purports to be an argument with a Hallmark card.

#307 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-17 12:31 AM | Reply

it's the most adaptable will survive

Not really, no.
It's that everything adapts given time and pressure. The cheetah wasn't "more adaptable" than the saber toothed tiger. Eventually the time is too short, the pressure too high and you join the 98% of all other forms. No one gets out alive.
That's what is going on here. There is pressure for men to adapt (try the '#metoo = manhater' line and see how often that gets you laid). Pushing back on this and claiming injury through some convoluted pseudo paleontology will get you nowhere. You're like the chimps standing in the tree line trying to get everyone to hang out and eat figs all day, "but our shoulders are too big, our hips too narrow! We wuz made this way!"
Things move quick for this species. We make our own time. We make our own pressure. Try to keep up.

It seems some people saw the commercial and wondered what the fuss is all about because the ad, for all its' cheesyness, is basically true. And another group of people saw it and took offense, for the same reason people get offended with good comedy, because it's basically true.

#308 | Posted by BluSky at 2019-01-17 02:49 AM | Reply

no such thing as bad publicity.

does this achieve their ultimate goal of making YOU want to run out and buy a Gilette razor...

#309 | Posted by AuntieSocial at 2019-01-17 05:35 AM | Reply

I'm sort of not going to engage in what purports to be an argument with a Hallmark card.

#307 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2019-01-17 12:31 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

Unfortunately, you're dangerously ignorant. Nothing you've said makes any sense. It's one hallmark card after another.

Start here with the victimization mindset we're forcing on women.

www.theatlantic.com

#310 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-17 09:31 AM | Reply

My only complaint about the ad, is it attributes this change in attitude due to #MeToo, when in reality its what conservatives have preached for years, good men matter.

Its interesting ....

Liberals today are saying video/written content matters in this case, where was this in regards to rap music in the 90's?

Its nice we can finally agree, good men matter. Now how do we create them?

Through ads?
Or through having two parent families?

Angry Boys: Sometimes, Mom Is Not Enough
www.psychologytoday.com

Its nice that Liberals finally acknowledge content matters, will they except the reality that modern feminism doesn't raise good men?

probably not, but progress none the less.

#311 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-01-17 10:40 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

"where was this in regards to rap music in the 90's"

Ask Tipper Gore.

#312 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-01-17 10:51 AM | Reply

Obviously this is another agenda driven by insane folks with too much money and power. Question is- who is really behind the curtain feeding this crap to MSM and the NFL...

#297 | Posted by AuntieSocial

Well who benefits?

Republicans.

If they can get liberals to go down this stupid masculinity=evil path, then they can get men who really want to be masculine to go the opposite direction and vote republican.

Liberals are playing right into their hands like they always do.

Same reason fox news lets shep smith be critical of the trump on fox news. Because he's gay. Fox viewers don't like gays, so if Shep says something, they'll believe the opposite.

#313 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-17 11:14 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Speaks,

FYI - I have really enjoyed your posts on this thread.

#314 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-17 11:36 AM | Reply

FYI - I have really enjoyed your posts on this thread.

#314 | Posted by JeffJ

We're on the same page about the left committing suicide via political correctness.

Not much else unfortunately. I'm eager to see your reaction to mueller's report.

How do you feel about the new attorney general refusing to say if he'll let anyone see the report, whether or not he'll make alterations to it, and whether or not he'll tell anyone if he does make alterations to it? And why do you think trump picked an AG with this stance?

#315 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-17 11:41 AM | Reply

I just answered your question on the other thread.

#316 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-17 11:43 AM | Reply

#313 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

While I agree with your point in general, the Republicans are behind the curtain feeding this crap to the MSM? I don't think so.

Its universities graduating people like Dirk that shaming companies to go to this level of silliness.

And its growing, not shrinking...

Same reason fox news lets shep smith be critical of the trump on fox news. Because he's gay. Fox viewers don't like gays, so if Shep says something, they'll believe the opposite.
#313 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

I would bet most Fox viewers don't know he's gay (I didn't, nor do I care), because it doesn't matter; the only people it matters to is the "Identity Matters" crowd ... again rich, white educated liberals, who talk down to minorities.

#317 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-01-17 11:47 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

--again rich, white educated liberals, who talk down to minorities.

Who defend their privilege by politically-correct virtue-signaling.

#318 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-01-17 11:59 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

"rich, white educated liberals, who talk down to minorities."

Why do Republicans keep pretending we haven't all lived through the last three years?

#319 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-01-17 12:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Who defend their privilege by politically-correct virtue-signaling.

#318 | Posted by nullifidian

People who whine about "virtue signaling" are people with little virtue who resent those with more virtue making them look bad.

"Look at mother theresa over there virtue signalling by feeding the sick. She's just trying to seem superior to me."

Human kindness and responsibility is so foreign to you that you think it must be fake.

#320 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-17 12:04 PM | Reply

- #320 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

No one disputes you are woke. You drive a Tesla Virtuemobile while wearing Nike apparel and are saving the planet.

#321 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-01-17 12:10 PM | Reply

- "Look at mother theresa over there virtue signalling by feeding the sick. She's just trying to seem superior to me."

Did she live in some rich, liberal privileged community like Malibu or Naples and advocate for affordable housing and homeless shelters--somewhere else?

#322 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-01-17 12:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

liberal privileged community

I would add; Rancho Santa Fe, La Jolla, Woodside, Palo Alto ...

They are typically void of minorities; sometimes rich white educated liberals forget this ...
www.msnbc.com

#323 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-01-17 12:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"Did she live in some rich, liberal privileged community like Malibu or Naples..." - #322 | Posted by nullifidian at 2019-01-17 12:17 PM

Don't know about Malibu, California, but in Naples, Florida (Collier County), 50% of voters are registered Republican, while only 23.6% are registered Democrat.

But that distracts from "the narrative."

So much for "liberal."

#324 | Posted by Hans at 2019-01-17 12:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What a racist commercial.
It's just more of the same "We want men to be men but only by our very specific definitions of what constitutes a man or else you're a sexist rapist ist ist ist ist ist ist phic phic ist ist..."

The irony being the "men" or "masculinity" that gilette wants to promote are the same ones no self-respecting feminist would touch with a barge pole. Nobody wants some overemotional, fragile, simpering, limp-wristed tool with no confidence, independent thought or initiative.

Oh and the black dude stopping the white guy from catcalling was hilarious. Black guys invented catcalling. And rap music.

#325 | Posted by mutant at 2019-01-17 12:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

in reality its what conservatives have preached for years, good men matter.

The ----- grabbing party somehow has moral high ground?

You're funny, dummy.

#326 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-01-17 12:54 PM | Reply

What a racist commercial.

Oh absolutely.

If there was one thing that commercial was, it was racist.

Thanks for your contribution to the conversation.

#327 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-01-17 12:55 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

"rich, white educated liberals, who talk down to minorities."

As opposed to rich, white uneducated conservatives, who vilify minorities?

Yea. The party of Mexicans are rapists, Middle Easterners are terrorists and black people come from shhthole countries is definitely the party for minorities.

#328 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-01-17 01:05 PM | Reply

Unfortunately, you're dangerously ignorant. Nothing you've said makes any sense. It's one hallmark card after another.

JFC, are you just figuring that out NOW?

#329 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-01-17 01:18 PM | Reply

"in reality its what conservatives have preached for years, good men matter."

Yet "in reality", they voted for a guy who's not.

Which carries more weight, words or deeds?

#330 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-01-17 01:21 PM | Reply

Did she live in some rich, liberal privileged community like Malibu or Naples and advocate for affordable housing and homeless shelters--somewhere else?

#322 | Posted by nullifidian

Maybe she does.

Such a plutocrat cliche to imply that you have to be poor and live like a monk in order to be better than a wall street greedbag.

#331 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-17 01:21 PM | Reply

No one disputes you are woke. You drive a Tesla Virtuemobile while wearing Nike apparel and are saving the planet.

#321 | Posted by nullifidian

No one disputes that you hate it when other people make you look bad by being more helpful to the rest of the world.

#332 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-17 01:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Such a plutocrat cliche to imply that you have to be poor and live like a monk in order to be better than a wall street greedbag.

But in your world, all the "greedbags" are Republican, arent they?

#333 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-17 02:42 PM | Reply

Defending virtue signalling capitalism at all costs will lead to a better world. "And here's what you need to know"

#334 | Posted by mutant at 2019-01-17 02:45 PM | Reply

But in your world, all the "greedbags" are Republican, arent they?

#333 | Posted by boaz

Is it surprising to you that most of the greedbags are in the party that wants to cut benefits for the sick and poor to finance tax cuts for the rich?

If so, see a doctor immediately.

#335 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-17 03:19 PM | Reply

Poor Mackris. Trying the tired old "blame feminism" song and perplexed that no one sings along.

#336 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-17 04:22 PM | Reply

Watched the commercial again.

The overreaction to it is still mind boggling.

I'm at work now. But I'll do a breakdown of the commercial later.

There's nothing in the video which warrants the reaction some people seem to be having.

#337 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-01-17 05:09 PM | Reply

I've been wondering how people would have reacted if the commercial had featured only black men. Would some who are objecting now have thought, "Yeah, black men really need to clean up their act and be better role models to their sons"? Didn't Bill Cosby say something like that once upon a time?

#338 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-17 05:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Who defend their privilege by politically-correct virtue-signaling."

Can't help but noticing Nulli defending his privilege by politically-correct right-wing virtue-signaling about politically-correct left-wing virtue-signaling.

#339 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-17 05:30 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#338. Had Gillette done that Trump probably would have put the commercial on his Twitter feed.

#340 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-17 05:44 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Start here with the victimization mindset we're forcing on women."

No need to bring women into this.
Consider the saying "Boys don't cry."
That teaches boys to wall off their emotions.
That's not healthy.
Taken to the extrene, it becomes toxic.

#341 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-17 06:41 PM | Reply

No need to bring women into this.
Consider the saying "Boys don't cry."
That teaches boys to wall off their emotions.
That's not healthy.
Taken to the extrene, it becomes toxic.

#341 | Posted by snoofy

Yet as much as women say they want a man who cries, they are actually turned off by a guy who cries as easily and often as women do.

If women didn't want a masculine man, men wouldn't put so much effort into being as masculine as possible.

If being a submissive considerate emo man was the way to--------, there would be a lot more men like that.

Women are kind of like dr frankenstein in this situation, complaining about the monster they helped create.

#342 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-17 07:11 PM | Reply

"Yet as much as women say they want a man who cries, they are actually turned off by a guy who cries as easily and often as women do.

If women didn't want a masculine man, men wouldn't put so much effort into being as masculine as possible."

Citation needed.

"If being a submissive considerate emo man"

An absurd caricature worthy of Trump himself.

#343 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-17 07:14 PM | Reply

Here is their new ad campaign:

Gillette: The Best a Ma'am Can Get

#344 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-01-17 07:14 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Women are kind of like dr frankenstein in this situation, complaining about the monster they helped create."

Because it isn't like men have controlled the world since God was a boy, right?

Victim blaming nonsense and, ironically, in the form of a reference to a book written by a feminist about A MAN REFUSING TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY.

#345 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-17 07:19 PM | Reply

#344

Doesn't take much to threaten Rightostupid's masculinity...

#346 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-17 07:20 PM | Reply

"Yet as much as women say they want a man who cries, they are actually turned off by a guy who cries as easily and often as women do."

So what?

You are suggesting boys ought to wall off a normal, healthy part of their psyche simply because someone else prefers them emotionally stunted?

I think I have figured it out.

Guys who are bothered by this ad are bothered because it reveals they have developed a Helsinki Syndrome response to the societal pressures that steer their development.

Steer their development.

You know the difference between a steer and a bull, right?

#347 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-17 07:23 PM | Reply

"If women didn't want a masculine man, men wouldn't put so much effort into being as masculine as possible."

(whip sound)

#348 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-17 07:25 PM | Reply

"Yet as much as women say they want a man who cries, they are actually turned off by a guy who cries as easily and often as women do."

How is it that we are going from "men shouldn't cry" to "men who cry as easily and often as women do"? It's also a stereotype to think that all women cry easily and often, that all women cry with the same ease and frequency.

#349 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-17 07:29 PM | Reply

How is it that we are going from "men shouldn't cry" to "men who cry as easily and often as women do"? It's also a stereotype to think that all women cry easily and often, that all women cry with the same ease and frequency.

#349 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday

Easily and often are subjective terms. But no woman wants a man who cries like her girlfriends do.

#350 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-17 07:39 PM | Reply

Frank Cotton's tears cure cancer.

Too bad Frank Cotton never cries!

#351 | Posted by JeffJ at 2019-01-17 07:41 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Because it isn't like men have controlled the world since God was a boy, right?

Victim blaming nonsense and, ironically, in the form of a reference to a book written by a feminist about A MAN REFUSING TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY.

#345 | Posted by DirkStruan

Controlling the world doesn't make them immune from trying to mold themselves to fit women's desires.

In fact, if women weren't attracted to dominant aggressive men, there would be a lot less of them and the world would be a more peaceful place.

#352 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-17 07:41 PM | Reply

Frank Cotton doesn't turn on the shower.

He stares at it until it starts to cry.

#353 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2019-01-17 07:48 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Easily and often are subjective terms. But no woman wants a man who cries like her girlfriends do."

Who is suggesting this is what men should do? Most women do want men who can feel and express emotions other than anger and aggression. Men can feel and express emotions like sadness and compassion without turning into the stereotype of a frequently/easliy weepy woman.

#354 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-17 07:49 PM | Reply

"In fact, if women weren't attracted to dominant aggressive men, there would be a lot less of them and the world would be a more peaceful place."

The lack of accountability is breathtaking.

You are saying the rightful place for a man's balls is in a woman's purse.

Women, not other men, are the ones teaching boys to grab them by the -----. That boys don't cry.

You must think we live in a mateiarchy.

It's amazing, honestly.

#355 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-17 08:00 PM | Reply

ou are saying the rightful place for a man's balls is in a woman's purse.

Women, not other men, are the ones teaching boys to grab them by the -----. That boys don't cry.

You must think we live in a mateiarchy.

It's amazing, honestly.

#355 | Posted by snoofy

No I'm saying men live their lives in pursuit of women. Being dominant and aggressive is a widespread tactic because it is a successful strategy for men to get women. If it didn't work, there wouldn't be so much effort from men to be dominant and aggressive.

#356 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-17 08:06 PM | Reply

Do you use Gillette to trim your mustache? - 101Chairborne

#35 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

I'd have gone bigger. Stomach, knuckles, or knees. In no particular order.

#357 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2019-01-17 08:28 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Speaks.

You clearly prefer men who are psychopaths, or sociopaths.

At least you know your type.

Go out and get you some.

#358 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-01-17 08:37 PM | Reply

I've been wondering how people would have reacted if the commercial had featured only black men. Would some who are objecting now have thought, "Yeah, black men really need to clean up their act and be better role models to their sons"? Didn't Bill Cosby say something like that once upon a time?

#338 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY AT 2019-01-17 05:25 PM | FLAG:

Are you being sarcastic? Can you explain?

#359 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-17 08:39 PM | Reply

"No I'm saying men live their lives in pursuit of women."

Because their balls are in the purse.

We're saying the same thing, you just don't see it yet.

About one in six men uses prostitutes. Guys like Trump. If it was like you said, that number would be closer to six in six. Men find other things to pursue. Like money, power, glory, or in Ernest Hemingway's case a clean, well-lighted space.

#360 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-17 08:49 PM | Reply

I have SpeakSoftly's thesis on this subject, distilled down to a t-shirt:
www.etsy.com

#361 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-17 08:52 PM | Reply

Speaks.

You clearly prefer men who are psychopaths, or sociopaths.

At least you know your type.

Go out and get you some.

#358 | Posted by ClownShack

So we've reached the point where instead of offering a reasonable rebuttal, we just start calling each other gay?

Rather homophobic of you isn't it?

#362 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-17 08:53 PM | Reply

"About one in six men uses prostitutes"

Now you hate prostitutes? How puritan of you.

#363 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-17 08:53 PM | Reply

Are you being sarcastic? Can you explain?
#359 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER

Not hard to figure out ... sometimes just using African Americans in your product is racist, if the product is associated by Liberals as being low class ...

www.youtube.com

#364 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-01-17 08:55 PM | Reply

Men find other things to pursue. Like money, power, glory, or in Ernest Hemingway's case a clean, well-lighted space.

#360 | Posted by snoofy

Money power glory... to what end? Boil it down and the answer is almost always - to get women.

If you could get gorgeous women while living in a cardboard box, there would be a lot more guys living in cardboard boxes and a lot less guys trying to invent new apps or get into harvard business school.

#365 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-17 08:55 PM | Reply

"sometimes just using African Americans in your product is racist, if the product is associated by Liberals as being low class"

I'll have a Hennessy.

#366 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-17 08:56 PM | Reply

Money power glory... to what end? Boil it down and the answer is almost always - to get women.

Really, you think Bill Gates and Warren Buffett did it all for the chicks?

Wear the T-shirt. It is perfect for you.

#367 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-17 08:57 PM | Reply

"Now you hate prostitutes?"

What on earth could I have said that led you astray to that conclusion?

#368 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-17 09:00 PM | Reply

Rather homophobic of you isn't it?
#362

I have no problem with who you find sexually attractive. But, you seem to know what makes men desirable. I have to assume that's based on personal taste.

we've reached the point where instead of offering a reasonable rebuttal, we just start calling each

I've written many posts on this thread about my opinion of the commercial. You're free to scroll up and read them.

I definitely disagree with you that men should bottle up their emotions and "suck it up!" and "be a man!"

I don't believe we're the same people our parents and grandparents were in the 40s and 50s.

I agree with a lot of what the commercial is saying. Matter of fact, it's a great commercial.

Be the best man you can be.

Or, don't.

Boaz is just fine being who he is. Why should he change?

#369 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-01-17 09:02 PM | Reply

For all the people in here objecting to this commercial.

You can do what Trump does:

I'm automatically attracted to beautiful [women] -- I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything ... Grab them by the p***y. You can do anything.

Girls love that, right?

I mean, Trump is literally the guy you all seem to be praising.

#370 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-01-17 09:06 PM | Reply

I agree with a lot of what the commercial is saying. Matter of fact, it's a great commercial.

Be the best man you can be.

Or, don't.

Boaz is just fine being who he is. Why should he change?

#369 | Posted by ClownShack

That's not all the commercial is saying. It's also saying that doing what men have always done - trying to ask out a pretty woman - is akin to sexual assault.

#371 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-17 09:08 PM | Reply

Really, you think Bill Gates and Warren Buffett did it all for the chicks?

#367 | Posted by snoofy

I dont' know much about their life stories, but I'd be willing to bet if bill gates was getting laid a lot in high school microsoft would likely have been created.

Men do what they have to do to attract a mate. If they're not good looking, or tall, or strong, they have to elevate their social status in other ways - by learning a skill, an instrument, developing an entertaining personality...

Being an aggressive alpha badass is a common strategy because it often works. So are men to blame for adopting personas which women reward them for?

#372 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-17 09:11 PM | Reply

*microsoft WOULDNT have been created

#373 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-17 09:12 PM | Reply

"It's also saying that doing what men have always done - trying to ask out a pretty woman - is akin to sexual assault."

I mean... I guess, if you're an incel and you can't figure out why, now you know why!

Your approach is perceived as akin to sexual assault.

You could work on that, you know.

#374 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-17 09:13 PM | Reply

"So are men to blame for adopting personas which women reward them for?"

Of course they are, fool.

If you think a woman wants you to get a tattoo, so you get one to impress her, who is to blame for your tattoo?

#375 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-17 09:16 PM | Reply

"I dont' know much about their life stories, but I'd be willing to bet if bill gates was getting laid a lot in high school microsoft would(n't) likely have been created."

Oh so now you're saying pretty girls halt progress.

I don't know what happened to you.

But it hit you HARD, bro.

#376 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-17 09:19 PM | Reply

Oh so now you're saying pretty girls halt progress.

I don't know what happened to you.

But it hit you HARD, bro.

#376 | Posted by snoofy

Happiness halts progress. Misery motivates change.

It's bizarre to see someone so stubbornly refusing to see obvious societal patterns.

#377 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-17 09:22 PM | Reply

Your approach is perceived as akin to sexual assault.

You could work on that, you know.

#374 | Posted by snoofy

What is my approach?

According to this ad, a man seeing a pretty woman on the street and then trying to talk to her is bad behavior that needs to be stopped.

Do you agree with that?

#378 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-17 09:23 PM | Reply

"According to this ad, a man seeing a pretty woman on the street and then trying to talk to her is bad behavior that needs to be stopped."

Funny flag.

#379 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-17 09:24 PM | Reply

It's also saying that doing what men have always done - trying to ask out a pretty woman - is akin to sexual assault.

I know the scene you're talking about. Sure, there's nothing wrong with seeing an attractive woman and asking what's up.

But, after having worked in downtown Los Angeles for a while, and knowing girls who live in New York city. It's not always that simple.

Girls get followed for blocks by guys trying to get into their pants. I worked with a girl who was literally chased for blocks by a guy who was "just trying to say hello to her". Thankfully for her, the building we worked in had a doorman who stopped the guy from following her into the building.

You and Bruce and I'm sure others, are viewing this as a personal attack on you. It's not.

#380 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-01-17 09:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"According to this ad, a man seeing a pretty woman on the street and then trying to talk to her is bad behavior that needs to be stopped."

Funny flag.

#379 | Posted by snoofy

Did you watch the whole commercial? That is exactly what happens.

#381 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-17 09:27 PM | Reply

"So are men to blame for adopting personas which women reward them for?"

What's your answer to this?

Are men fully responsible for their own actions towards women?

Or are men not fully responsible for their own actions towards women?

Do you even realize you're balls deep in "what was she wearing" country???

#382 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-17 09:29 PM | Reply

"Balls deep"? Talk about toxic masculinity.

#383 | Posted by jpw at 2019-01-17 09:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Once yours drop you can sell your guns, JPW!

#384 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-17 09:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You and Bruce and I'm sure others, are viewing this as a personal attack on you. It's not.

#380 | Posted by ClownShack

If you'd have followed the thread, you'd know this isn't about me. This is about my desire to see democrats regain power. And if they continue down this "masculinity is bad and men need to change" path, they are going to continue to lose elections. You don't win elections by telling half the country they are ethically or morally inferior.

#385 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-17 09:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Are men fully responsible for their own actions towards women?

Or are men not fully responsible for their own actions towards women?

Do you even realize you're balls deep in "what was she wearing" country???

#382 | Posted by snoofy

Everyone is always responsible for their own actions.

You are balls deep in strawman country.

#386 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2019-01-17 09:33 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"That's not all the commercial is saying. It's also saying that doing what men have always done - trying to ask out a pretty woman - is akin to sexual assault.

Not sexual assault, not sexual harassment. Men have always found dates by calling out to a pretty woman on the street who is a complete stranger to them and who they know nothing about except that she is pretty? Perhaps the ad is questioning the appropriateness of chasing after an unknown woman who is walking down the street, minding her own business simply because you think she is cute/hot and when you know literally nothing else about her, including whether she is married or a lesbian or preoccupied by her father's recent heart attack. f she is minding her own business; maybe you should mind yours.

#387 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-17 09:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"But, after having worked in downtown Los Angeles for a while, and knowing girls who live in New York city. It's not always that simple. "

It doesn't have to be a big city like that. I experienced some unwanted attention when I worked in Pittsburgh when I first got out of college. You may think it is flattering to approach an unknown woman waiting at the bus stop at 7:30 on a Monday morning, but she may not find so. Now, if you share that same bus stop and see her there a morning or two and then strike up a conversation and see how she responds, you might be on to something.

"Girls get followed for blocks by guys trying to get into their pants. I worked with a girl who was literally chased for blocks by a guy who was "just trying to say hello to her". Thankfully for her, the building we worked in had a doorman who stopped the guy from following her into the building."

Now that is sexual harassment.

#388 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-17 09:58 PM | Reply

you'd know this isn't about me.

Of course this is about you, it's why you're so adamant about it being offensive.

This is about my desire to see democrats regain power. And if they continue down this "masculinity is bad and men need to change" path, they are going to continue to lose elections.

I didn't realize Gillette was a branch of the Democratic Party.

You remind me of BillJohnson, who was certain the democrats were doomed when they championed marriage equality.

You don't win elections by telling half the country they are ethically or morally inferior.
#385 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

I didn't realize this commercial was a campaign advertisement.

I recently watched an inspirational video about motivating yourself to never give up, to put in the extra effort (it was about working out). But, I guess it's also telling fat lazy people they are inferior to people who are in better physical shape.

I mean, that's a direct correlation of the message.

So perhaps you're right, the Trumpublicans of America will have a problem being told not to grab p***y.

#389 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-01-17 10:00 PM | Reply

Once yours drop you can sell your guns, JPW!

#384 | Posted by snoofy

Awww look at your toxic masculinity blooming!

It's like you're finally becomin' a man!

#390 | Posted by jpw at 2019-01-17 10:01 PM | Reply

not find so = not think so

#391 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-17 10:02 PM | Reply

Now that is sexual harassment.

She worked the front desk, was probably late teens early twenties, and was very shaken up, visibly so, by the experience.

But, the guy was only doing what men have done since the cave ages.

Clubbed a girl over the head and dragged her into his cave.

#392 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-01-17 10:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You don't win elections by telling half the country they are ethically or morally inferior.
#385 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2019-01-17 09:32 PM | FLAG:

Nor is anyone doing so.

#393 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-17 10:04 PM | Reply

You and Bruce and I'm sure others, are viewing this as a personal attack on you. It's not.

#380 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2019-01-17 09:26 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

I said I liked the commercial.

#394 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-17 10:26 PM | Reply

I liked a lot about the ad just for the record. I reject all Trump-style toxic masculinity.

#137 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER AT 2019-01-16 12:18 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

#395 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-17 10:27 PM | Reply

"According to this ad, a man seeing a pretty woman on the street and then trying to talk to her is bad behavior that needs to be stopped."

If you're a good guy, which I assume most of you are, a pretty woman on the street might like to talk to you, but you need to remember that pretty woman doesn't know you from Adam. You could be some horny creeper or Ted Bundy's long lost brother, and because you are a stranger, she has no way to know. And don 't assume the creeper or Bundy's brother would be instantly distinguishable from the good guy, i.e., you.

#396 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-17 10:35 PM | Reply

#396 - maybe they should have made that commercial then.

#397 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-17 11:05 PM | Reply

I said I liked the commercial.
#394 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER

You're right, I apologize.

I was recalling when we were discussing it yesterday without remembering we had come to a consensus.

#398 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-01-17 11:09 PM | Reply

No worries. I think it's a great piece to have a discussion about.

#399 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-17 11:12 PM | Reply

And thank you.

#400 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-17 11:12 PM | Reply

"#396 - maybe they should have made that commercial then."

Maybe the commercial was meant to start a conversation about why they selected the scenes they did.

#401 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-17 11:29 PM | Reply

"Everyone is always responsible for their own actions."

Then why'd you ask

"So are men to blame for adopting personas which women reward them for?"

???

#402 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-17 11:48 PM | Reply

#401 I bet it's just a weak corporate culture full of emotional abuse.

#403 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-18 12:37 AM | Reply

NeverSaid"Hat"
@Popehat
·
I mean, it appears that Gillette isn't a good product for sensitive skin after all.

#404 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-01-18 02:12 AM | Reply

I think the lady Gillette is better than the guy one. But the last Gillette I bought was at least 13 years ago. Those disposable ones are downright dangerous.

#405 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-18 02:20 AM | Reply

Do people still shave?

#406 | Posted by ClownShack at 2019-01-18 02:41 AM | Reply

Sort of seems like Gillette wasn't a good product for sensitive skin after all..

#407 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2019-01-18 04:09 AM | Reply

Ha!

#408 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2019-01-18 04:10 AM | Reply

Comments are closed for this entry.

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