Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, January 10, 2019

This weekend, "60 Minutes" aired an interview with the self-described, unapologetically "radical" rookie Democratic Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. In it she proposed hiking the top marginal tax rate to fund green energy investment. As she explained: "You look at our tax rates back in the '60s and when you have a progressive tax rate system, your tax rate, you know, let's say, from zero to $75,000 may be 10 percent or 15 percent, et cetera. But once you get to, like, the tippy tops, on your 10 millionth dollar, sometimes you see tax rates as high as 60 or 70 percent. That doesn't mean all $10 million are taxed at an extremely high rate, but it means that as you climb up this ladder you should be contributing more."

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... Ocasio-Cortez tweeted back: "You're the GOP Minority Whip. How do you not know how marginal tax rates work?" ...

There may be hope for her after all. She blew right past Rep Scalise's deflection and educated the electorate.

If she can keep her message goingforward similarly succinct....

#1 | Posted by LampLighter at 2019-01-09 09:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

She did a good job. Yes.

#2 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2019-01-09 10:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

The problem with AOC's suggestion is that it would raise just about zero money. People that make $10M/year are either business owners or people that can move payments around to make it untaxable. For instance, you take money as a dividend or company expense rather than personal income. You can give yourself a business loan rather than paying money as a salary. All these tricks are already used by people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett so that they don't have to pay their "fair share". At reasonable tax rates, there is less incentive to play these games. At a 70% tax rate, the number of people reporting income over $10M will drop to about 0. Unless she wants to make this applicable to all forms of income, this is just a soundbite that accomplishes nothing but encourages tax games, just like the last time rates were that high in the US. Or, you can look at Italy, Greece, or France to see what happens when you put on huge tax rates. If they millionaires don't instantly move, they hide their income from taxes.

#3 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-01-10 06:44 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"The problem with AOC's suggestion is that it would raise just about zero money."

Historically that is probably false. Consider, if the recent tax cuts will cost 1.8 trillion dollars to the Treasury then increasing taxes would, logically, work exactly oppositely. Saying that rich folks could find ways to avoid taxes only strengthens my position because historically one of the ways they sought to do that was by increasing wages, buying new equipment, etc. Higher tax rates on the top 1% would boost the economy because as workers earn more money we also spend more money, tax cuts for the 1% produce stock buy backs and increased savings for the 1%, they don't spend it, they don't need to because they already have everything they want.

#4 | Posted by danni at 2019-01-10 10:25 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"All these tricks are already used by people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett so that they don't have to pay their "fair share". At reasonable tax rates, there is less incentive to play these games."

That is horse crap. They hire accountants who are going to take whatever tax deduction they can get regardless of the tax rate. You think their accountants just relax when the tax rate decreases....that is so completely dumb.

#5 | Posted by danni at 2019-01-10 10:27 AM | Reply

That is horse crap. They hire accountants who are going to take whatever tax deduction they can get regardless of the tax rate.
#5 | POSTED BY DANNI

You are too poor to understand this but, guys like Bill Gates drive the entire dividend policies of companies to personally benefit themselves. They get huge pushback for doing this, but they do it when the financial incentives are there.

#6 | Posted by nobiasposter101 at 2019-01-10 10:37 AM | Reply

#6 Ruskie, why does this upset you? He's the largest shareholder and the company has fiduciary duty. Didn't puty tell you that republicans are pro-business? You're not going to keep them compliant if you start attacking the free market. At least Gates has done objective good with his hundreds of billions over the years while your country's richest man buys presidents, steals territories, and pays you to troll internet forums all day.

#7 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2019-01-10 02:44 PM | Reply

' They get huge pushback for doing this, but they do it when the financial incentives are there."

If they are so great at avoiding taxes then why did they insist on a big fat tax cut for themselves? Why is it estimated that it will cost the Treasury 1.8 trillion dollars? Because you are repeating illogical nonsense.

#8 | Posted by danni at 2019-01-10 05:53 PM | Reply

The problem with AOC's suggestion is that it would raise just about zero money. People that make $10M/year are either business owners or people that can move payments around to make it untaxable. For instance, you take money as a dividend or company expense rather than personal income. You can give yourself a business loan rather than paying money as a salary. All these tricks are already used by people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett so that they don't have to pay their "fair share". At reasonable tax rates, there is less incentive to play these games. At a 70% tax rate, the number of people reporting income over $10M will drop to about 0. Unless she wants to make this applicable to all forms of income, this is just a soundbite that accomplishes nothing but encourages tax games, just like the last time rates were that high in the US. Or, you can look at Italy, Greece, or France to see what happens when you put on huge tax rates. If they millionaires don't instantly move, they hide their income from taxes.

#3 | POSTED BY NOBIASPOSTER101

I'm not too poor. And you are completely full of it. That is literally not how the tax code works unless you are doing things illegally.

In addition, there is zero reason many existing loopholes couldn't be eliminated with the change in the marginal tax rate.

So...would you care to try again?

#9 | Posted by Sycophant at 2019-01-10 06:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Democrats don't think to highly of AoC

Ocasio-Cortez passed over for influential House committee.

WASHINGTON -- Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez didn't get a seat on the powerful tax writing committee where she sought to push her progressive agenda of Medicare for All, free college tuition and a green new deal.

Instead, the open downstate New York slot on the House Ways and Means Committee went to a moderate Democrat, Long Island Rep. Tom Suozzi, a former CPA, attorney and county executive.
nypost.com

That is literally not how the tax code works unless you are doing things illegally. ~ Synchophant

Agreed, which is exactly what happens in countries with high tax rates they stop avoiding and start evading ...

For instance, I know many affluent Germans in NaplesFL. They don't report their income to Germany, keep much of their money in foreign assets ... they aren't avoiding taxation, they are evading it ...

See Greece for extreme example ....

#10 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2019-01-10 07:50 PM | Reply

And you are completely full of it. That is literally not how the tax code works unless you are doing things illegally.
#9 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

How can you expect a russian sweatshop worker to know anything about US tax laws?

#11 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2019-01-10 10:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

As long as Republicans continue to slash the IRS's budget, the richie rich apologists are probably right. But it doesn't have to be that way. Many countries extract large percentages from their richest citizens. One reason this is important, is it keeps money in circulation. The rich have so much money they have little need to spend any of it to live. They park most of it in savings. Most money is inherited wealth. Yet, most people run around thinking that Bill Gates is the rule, not the exception. Forget about the job creation fairy tale.

#12 | Posted by bayviking at 2019-01-10 11:49 PM | Reply

The problem with AOC's suggestion is that it would raise just about zero money. People that make $10M/year are either business owners or people that can move payments around to make it untaxable. For instance, you take money as a dividend or company expense rather than personal income. You can give yourself a business loan rather than paying money as a salary.

#3 | POSTED BY NOBIASPOSTER101 AT 2019-01-10 06:44 AM | FLAG:

Ahhh yes, that is why IRS auditors routinely audit very large income taxpayers.

BTW...Dividends are taxable. In fact they are double taxed since they are non-deductible to the corporation. Good plan.

As for giving yourself a loan rather than salary is great until the IRS audits the company. When they see that they a) call it disguised wages, b) assess the income taxes on the "wages" c) assess the payroll taxes on the wages and then hit the company with negligence penalties.

Good plan.

#13 | Posted by Nixon at 2019-01-11 09:05 AM | Reply

The rich have so much money they have little need to spend any of it to live.

That's none of your business what anyone has "need" to do with their money. That's the problem I see with liberals..

Get out of my pocket. Stop looking in everyone else's wallet. The money belongs to who owns it. You don't know what they are going to do with their money.

#14 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-11 11:31 AM | Reply

"That's none of your business what anyone has "need" to do with their money."

Why not? You think you live in a vacuum?

#15 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 11:38 AM | Reply

"That's none of your business what anyone has "need" to do with their money."

No, you're wrong. It is everyone's business. It's how we fixed our nation and saved capitalism in the past. You gave up the right to claim it isn't our business when we bailed out the banks in 2008. From now on you should just STFU.

#16 | Posted by danni at 2019-01-11 11:41 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Get out of my pocket. Stop looking in everyone else's wallet. "

No one is in your pocket BOAZ, no one wants to be in your pocket. WE want to be in the pockets of the 1% and that ain't you. Why you carry their water is a mystery, I guess you think they give a crap about you and your family. Clue: they don't.

#17 | Posted by danni at 2019-01-11 11:43 AM | Reply

You don't know what they are going to do with their money.

This is precisely the problem, and our society is proof that things don't just "work themselves out" when you let the ultrawealthy hoard all the money.

#18 | Posted by JOE at 2019-01-11 11:44 AM | Reply

You STFU Danni,

you liberals are always looking for more money without looking in your own pocket. Money is private property. I cant believe how you people think. That's why you don't like people having private property the government cant just go in and take.

I really cant believe that. And NO, I as a private citizen have NEVER given up my right to what's mine. It certainly isn't YOURS.

#19 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-11 11:44 AM | Reply

when you let the ultrawealthy hoard all the money.

We are supposed to be equal in this nation. Because you are taking more of their money, do they get more of a vote? If someone still only gets one vote, over-taxing them is unfair.

#20 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-11 11:47 AM | Reply

"Because you are taking more of their money, do they get more of a vote? If someone still only gets one vote, over-taxing them is unfair."

Neither voting nor taxation work that way but your comment is telling, capitalist shill.

#21 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 11:50 AM | Reply

#19

What right do you think you have? You didn't build that.

#22 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 11:51 AM | Reply

Well it should Dirk.

If you tax me more, I'm going to want more. Again, we are supposed to be equal in this nation.

I guess we aren't equal when it comes time to finding money..

#23 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-11 11:54 AM | Reply

"Well it should Dirk."

Thanks for coming out and admitting you think voting power should be directly tied to how much money one has.

"If you tax me more, I'm going to want more."

You've gotten it already. That's kind of the point. Time to give back.

"Again, we are supposed to be equal in this nation."

Then why do a small number of people have all the wealth?

#24 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 12:01 PM | Reply

"you liberals are always looking for more money without looking in your own pocket."

I haven't been in court as a defendant, as a plaintiff for my entire life but I pay taxes to support the court system which is actually there to preserve the wealth of the the rich. Your accusation is nonsense, we the average American people, subsidize the wealthy every day of our lives. Don't blame me because you are too dumb to realize it.

#25 | Posted by danni at 2019-01-11 12:05 PM | Reply

"If you tax me more, I'm going to want more."

So...since Californians pay more than any other state, should they be given more?

#26 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-01-11 12:06 PM | Reply

"If you tax me more, I'm going to want more. Again, we are supposed to be equal in this nation."

Who told you that? They were lying. Grow up.

#27 | Posted by danni at 2019-01-11 12:06 PM | Reply

"Historically that is probably false."

In 2011, there were ~2000 people in the US who made more than $10M in that year. Raising taxes on them might generate enough revenue to buy a new aircraft carrier, or for Trump to fund part of his wall. But not much more. And that's assuming they paid up and didn't employ creating financial management techniques.

"This is precisely the problem, and our society is proof that things don't just "work themselves out" when you let the ultrawealthy hoard all the money."

Fair enough...but I doubt you're willing to do your fair share to prevent it from happening. Cancel your credit cards. Stop buying iPhone. Make your own clothes.

The rich don't get rich in a vacuum. They get rich because you willingly gave them your money, along with millions of other people. It would seem you want the goods and services they provide, you just don't want them to be able to keep what society provides them in return.

#28 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-01-11 12:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If you tax me more, I'm going to want more.

The rich do get more. They have more to protect when it comes to police, fire, military and economic policy. We should be taxing them more to support their lifestyles with our infrastructure.

#29 | Posted by JOE at 2019-01-11 12:40 PM | Reply

Personally, I like a flat tax rate like the following states have:

"In the United States, while the Federal income tax is progressive, eight states -- Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Utah -- tax household incomes at a single rate, ranging from 3.07% (Pennsylvania) to 5.8% (North Carolina)."
Flat tax - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org

#30 | Posted by MSgt at 2019-01-11 12:40 PM | Reply

"They get rich because you willingly gave them your money, along with millions of other people. "

Or they pass money along to their heirs via GRATs or tax scams.

#31 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-01-11 12:40 PM | Reply

Fair enough...but I doubt you're willing to do your fair share to prevent it from happening. Cancel your credit cards. Stop buying iPhone. Make your own clothes.

What kind of stupid tu quoque fallacy is that? And what good would one person not buying clothes do when compared to a comprehensive shift in economic policy?

#32 | Posted by JOE at 2019-01-11 12:42 PM | Reply

"Personally, I like a flat tax rate"

So do the wealthy: more for you to pay means less for them to pay.

We've got plenty of other flat taxes. The income tax is one of the few progressive taxes; most are regressive. Payroll taxes are super-regressive.

#33 | Posted by Danforth at 2019-01-11 12:43 PM | Reply

Then why do a small number of people have all the wealth?

Because they made something or created a service that a lot of people are willing to pay for. You know why.

You liberals are greedy. Just in the case of capital gains, you aren't happy taxing the interest earned, you want the "sitting" money too. The money someone may be saving they don't want to spend. You call it "hoarding". It's not, it's their money.

#34 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-11 12:43 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Because they made something or created a service that a lot of people are willing to pay for."

Really, that's what you think Al Gore is doing when he flies around on his private jet?

#35 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-11 12:50 PM | Reply

Because they made something or created a service that a lot of people are willing to pay for.

The Walton heirs didn't "make" ----.

#36 | Posted by JOE at 2019-01-11 12:51 PM | Reply

Neither did the Mars heirs, or Laurene Jobs.

So far we're at 6 of the 20 most wealthy people in America haven't made a damn thing, and yet Boaz worships them like they're keeping us all afloat.

#37 | Posted by JOE at 2019-01-11 12:54 PM | Reply

"Because they made something or created a service that a lot of people are willing to pay for. You know why."

You're adorable.

"You call it "hoarding"."

What do you call it?

Also, what does the Bible call it?

#38 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 01:05 PM | Reply

I haven't worshipped anyone. But I do notice you are talking about heirs. All of you seem to be jealous of heirs and their inheritance.

#39 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-11 01:06 PM | Reply

What do you call it?

I call it keeping what's theirs. You are just greedy.

Also, what does the Bible call it?

Bible calls what you are doing jealousy.

#40 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-11 01:11 PM | Reply

All of you seem to be jealous of heirs and their inheritance.

#39 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2019-01-11 01:06 PM | FLAG:

Ah yes, the rightist patented "class envy" rhetorical ploy... no one has legitimate moral outrage that some feast while others starve; they are all just jealous! And jealousy is just an emotion and even a rather womanly one, so we can ignore or mock it! Nothing to see here, people! Move along now!

#41 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 01:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Again, we are supposed to be equal in this nation.

#23 | POSTED BY BOAZ

The implied 'equal' doesn't mean equal in wealth. It implies equal in opportunity. That should include equal opportunities at education, healthcare and within the judicial system, just to name a few things. If the wealthy would make certain those opportunities existed, without the need for government intervention, then we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

#42 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2019-01-11 01:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Bible calls what you are doing jealousy.
#40 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2019-01-11 01:11 PM | FLAG:

Not what I asked. I asked what the Bible calls what the rich do with their money.

#43 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 01:12 PM | Reply

If the wealthy would make certain those opportunities existed

Why is it their job to do that?

#44 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-11 01:14 PM | Reply

"You are just greedy."

The poor man dying in a hovel... is he greedy? The woman who needs healthcare... is she greedy? The child who goes to bed hungry... is that desire for a decent meal greed?

#45 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 01:15 PM | Reply

I asked what the Bible calls what the rich do with their money.

Your question is incorrect. The bible is for the individual, not government. The government isn't a charity.

#46 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-11 01:15 PM | Reply

Why is it their job to do that?

#44 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2019-01-11 01:14 PM | FLAG:

Because they have money.

#47 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 01:15 PM | Reply

#47,

That's none of your business.

#48 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-11 01:18 PM | Reply

That's none of your business.

#48 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2019-01-11 01:18 PM | FLAG:

Sure it is. I live in society.

#49 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 01:19 PM | Reply

"Bible calls what you are doing jealousy.
#40 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2019-01-11 01:11 PM | FLAG: "

And I call the Bible utter b.s. Do you honestly think most of us care about what some lunatic wrote 2,000 years ago? Grow up.

#50 | Posted by danni at 2019-01-11 01:20 PM | Reply

"Your question is incorrect."

What does the Bible call it? You are a coward and a hypocrite.

"The bible is for the individual, not government. The government isn't a charity."

The Bible, YOUR Bible, makes no such distinction.

A government's duty is to provide services. That's always been true. Why even have them otherwise?

#51 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 01:21 PM | Reply

I live in society.

So?

#52 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-11 01:22 PM | Reply

"Do you honestly think most of us care about what some lunatic wrote 2,000 years ago?"

Statistically? Most people do (or similar).

#53 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 01:22 PM | Reply

#52

So what they do that affects society? That's my business. Simple.

#54 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 01:23 PM | Reply

A government's duty is to provide services.

Nope. Wrong again. Our government used to be only to do roads, protect from foreign threats and such. All of these social programs were not part of the mix. Democrats only created this as they see and endless pot of money from the federal government with which to do their utopia.

#55 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-11 01:24 PM | Reply

"Your question is incorrect. The bible is for the individual, not government. The government isn't a charity."

BOAZ joined the military, had a career. And then he spent the rest of his life hating on every other black person who didn't do what he did. I could have had a career in the military, my father did for 30 years. Sorry but, in 1969 we were napalming villages in Vietnam. I could not and would not participate in any way, shape or fashion. My Dad, about 15 years later told me that, in the end, he had come around to my way of thinking and respected my decision and that same decision of my brothers. I don't disrespect anyone who served but I will not and cannot pretend that the wars they were used in were justified. Those who served were USED. I don't say that with malice but I refuse to pretend that they fought in justified wars even if they were wounded. Doesn't change the nature of the war. We have not fought in a justified war since WWII though possibly Korea might be an exception, I don't honestly know on that one. But from Vietnam to the present, there wasn't one single justified war.

#56 | Posted by danni at 2019-01-11 01:26 PM | Reply

Why is it their job to do that?

#44 | POSTED BY BOAZ

Because they are currently using their money as influence to make certain that others DO NOT have equal opportunity.

#57 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2019-01-11 01:27 PM | Reply

#14 - "Get out of my pocket. Stop looking in everyone else's wallet. The money belongs to who owns it. You don't know what they are going to do with their money."

#14 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-11 11:31 AM | Reply ---- RETENTIVE

Doubtful you are wealthy enough to take that position but if you do someone might give you some? 🤑

#58 | Posted by getoffmedz at 2019-01-11 01:27 PM | Reply

"Nope. Wrong again. Our government used to be only to do roads, protect from foreign threats and such."

Those are services, Einstein.
How did your brain learn human speech?

"All of these social programs were not part of the mix."

Times change. They have overwhelming support now.

#59 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 01:27 PM | Reply

#56,

Danni, you should really not comment on military matters.

Panama, Haiti, Grenada, Bosnia and a couple of others were very just causes.

#60 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-11 01:29 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Our government used to be only to do roads, protect from foreign threats and such."

You think that is a point? Our government is there to do whatever we tell it to do. We are in charge of our government, our government is not in charge of us. You think that because it didn't originally do certain things we don't have the right later to have it do those things. That's just stupid. WE aren't living in 1789 BOAZ, we're living in 2019, yes our government is going to be doing things not expected in 1789, you'd have to be an idiot not to expect that.

#61 | Posted by danni at 2019-01-11 01:30 PM | Reply

They have overwhelming support now.

Of course they do, there's always going to be the poor. And you democrats want to ensure they can vote in their welfare.

#62 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-11 01:31 PM | Reply

"Danni, you should really not comment on military matters.
Panama, Haiti, Grenada, Bosnia and a couple of others were very just causes."

Panama, Haiti, Grenada are examples of totally unnecessary and wrong headed, unjust wars.

#63 | Posted by danni at 2019-01-11 01:33 PM | Reply

"Of course they do, there's always going to be the poor. And you democrats want to ensure they can vote in their welfare."

So, you're contending that the recipients of welfare are capable of electing the politicians necessary to pass welfare. YOu do realize that is completely not true, right?

#64 | Posted by danni at 2019-01-11 01:34 PM | Reply

Ben Franklin -"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic,"

#65 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-11 01:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Of course they do,"

Who determines the role of government again? Oh, right, THE PEOPLE.

#66 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 01:35 PM | Reply

#64,

Of course it's true Danni. IF it were up to California, the entire country would be a welfare state.

#67 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-11 01:36 PM | Reply

Looks like Boaz has a little issue with the elastic clause...

#68 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 01:36 PM | Reply

Of course it's true Danni. IF it were up to California, the entire country would be a welfare state.

#67 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2019-01-11 01:36 PM | FLAG:

You should be so lucky.

#69 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 01:37 PM | Reply

"Ben Franklin -"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic,"

Define "the people." The vast majority doesn't need or want welfare but we also don't want people (kids) starving in our nation. Whether or not Ben Franklin agrees I don't really care.

#70 | Posted by danni at 2019-01-11 01:37 PM | Reply

But I do notice you are talking about heirs. All of you seem to be jealous of heirs and their inheritance.

It's not jealousy, dumbass. You said the ultrawealthy have money because they made something good or created a useful service. Just a cursory glance at the 20 richest Americans showed that at least 6 of them didn't make or create anything. So your claim was a lie, and now you're deflecting.

#71 | Posted by JOE at 2019-01-11 01:38 PM | Reply

"you should really not comment on military matters."

Maybe you shouldn't comment on ethical ones.

#72 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 01:38 PM | Reply

"Of course it's true Danni. IF it were up to California, the entire country would be a welfare state."

The state of California creates more profit than any other state. The state of California pays for the welfare of many of the red states. Do you even understand anything?

#73 | Posted by danni at 2019-01-11 01:39 PM | Reply

Whether or not Ben Franklin agrees I don't really care.

Well, too bad Danni. That's why our nation has checks and balances. I don't want kids starving either, but I also don't want my tax dollars going to something that is someone else's responsibility. The starving kids are what charities are for.

#74 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-11 01:40 PM | Reply

Our government used to be only to do roads, protect from foreign threats and such. All of these social programs were not part of the mix.

Ah yes, the good old days when small children could work in dangerous factories, women and blacks couldn't vote, and retirees were left to the poor house but it didnt matter because life expectancy was 45. Don't you wish we could go back?

#75 | Posted by JOE at 2019-01-11 01:41 PM | Reply

"IF it were up to California, the entire country would be a welfare state."

Sure, Jan:

California state legislators made headlines this year threatening to cut off tax payments to the federal government in response to President Donald Trump's executive order punishing so-called "sanctuary cities," whose police forces do not hand over illegal immigrants to the federal authorities.

California is one of about 14 "donor states" where residents pay far more in federal taxes than they get back in federal aid and contracts. While Californians are unlikely to commit mass tax evasion, it does bring up the question of why some states are more dependent on federal money than others.

people.howstuffworks.com

#76 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-11 01:42 PM | Reply

Romans 13:7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

Mark 12:13-17 And they sent to him some of the Pharisees and some of the Herodians, to trap him in his talk. And they came and said to him, "Teacher, we know that you are true and do not care about anyone's opinion. For you are not swayed by appearances, but truly teach the way of God. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not? Should we pay them, or should we not?" But, knowing their hypocrisy, he said to them, "Why put me to the test? Bring me a denarius and let me look at it." And they brought one. And he said to them, "Whose likeness and inscription is this?" They said to him, "Caesar's." Jesus said to them, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." And they marveled at him.

#77 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-11 01:46 PM | Reply

"I don't want kids starving either,"

I don't believe you.

"The starving kids are what charities are for."

Always someone else's problem, eh Boaz? How's your soul?

#78 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 01:47 PM | Reply

"Well, too bad Danni. That's why our nation has checks and balances. I don't want kids starving either, but I also don't want my tax dollars going to something that is someone else's responsibility. The starving kids are what charities are for."

Those charities failed for a couple of hundred years then us LIBERALS decided government needed to step in, sorry you disagree. You're just wrong. Charities never reduced poverty by 50%, the New Deal and the Great Society did. I'm fine with paying a little more tax to make that happen, sorry you're so ---- that it bothers you. A real MAN would be glad to know his taxes are helping kids and Moms. If I can raise my kids by myself and work for probably less money than you have earned and not resent paying taxes then I think you need to reexamine your own self.

#79 | Posted by danni at 2019-01-11 01:47 PM | Reply

Romans 13:1-14 ESV Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.

#80 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-11 01:47 PM | Reply

I don't believe you.

So now you are a judge? The bible has something to say about judging people, doesn't it?

#81 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-11 01:50 PM | Reply

decided government needed to step in, sorry you disagree.

Whatever. I'm not going to be forced if I can help it. That's why Trump was elected. You should not be forced into charity.

#82 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-11 01:52 PM | Reply

I'm fine with paying a little more tax to make that happen, sorry you're so ---- that it bothers you.

Yea, I am. I don't like when someone else thinks they know better where my money should go. I'm glad you like to charitize your taxes, but I don't. You can give YOUR whole income to taxes, I don't care. But when you start making me participate in your utopia, that's where I draw the line.

And that's why we have the political climate today that we have. Because of liberals like you who don't care what other people think in you making your utopia.

#83 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-11 01:54 PM | Reply

Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money."

1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

#84 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-11 01:55 PM | Reply

So now you are a judge? The bible has something to say about judging people, doesn't it?

#81 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2019-01-11 01:50 PM | FLAG:

Surely, that prohibition does not prevent one forming an opinion as to whether one is convincing. And you, sir, are not convincing.

#85 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 02:03 PM | Reply

"And that's why we have the political climate today that we have. Because of liberals like you who don't care what other people think in you making your utopia."

That's not even true, us liberals do care about what you think but just not as much as we care about hungry children.

#86 | Posted by danni at 2019-01-11 02:07 PM | Reply

Ben Franklin -"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic,"

That's already happening, you idiot, but not in the way that you think:

Billionaire Robert Mercer did Trump a huge favor. Will he get a payback?

The Internal Revenue Service is demanding a whopping $7 billion or more in back taxes from the world's most profitable hedge fund, whose boss's wealth and cyber savvy helped Donald Trump pole-vault into the White House.

Suddenly, the government's seven-year pursuit of Renaissance Technologies LLC is blanketed in political intrigue, now that the hedge fund's reclusive, anti-establishment co-chief executive, Robert Mercer, has morphed into a political force who might be owed a big presidential favor.

Read more here: www.mcclatchydc.com

#87 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-11 02:10 PM | Reply

"I don't like when someone else thinks they know better where my money should go."

Like towards building a wall, Boaz?

#88 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-11 02:11 PM | Reply

"All of you seem to be jealous of heirs and their inheritance."

Minutes later,

"So now you are a judge? The bible has something to say about judging people, doesn't it?"

It would be fun to see the brain activity involved when Boaz makes these self-contradictory statements.

#89 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-11 02:15 PM | Reply

Jesus, Boaz's posts just reek of greed and anger. And then he has the gall to accuse others of being jealous. Just LMAO. Pathetic that a grown man even thinks this way.

#90 | Posted by JOE at 2019-01-11 02:16 PM | Reply

"The starving kids are what charities are for."

Says who?

If Muslims were starving our kids, you'd be singing a different tune.

You are the poster child for why Trump loves the poorly educated.

Though to be fair, your love for Trump is far greater than his love for the useful idiots that support him. But that doesn't bother you either. You understand Trump is simply a better person than you are, since he's so rich and you're so poor.

You are living proof that some men always look upwards to a leader to solve their problems, never within themselves. Because they know they're impotent.

#91 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-11 02:23 PM | Reply

"That's why Trump was elected. You should not be forced into charity.

No, I bet you think the better way to go is to be like Trump and make up a fake one.

#92 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2019-01-11 02:24 PM | Reply

"What kind of stupid tu quoque fallacy is that? And what good would one person not buying clothes do when compared to a comprehensive shift in economic policy?"

Easy there Champ. You seem to be under the impression that everyone shares your opinion. I personally have no problem with Jeff Bezos making billions, if the outcome is me having access to the awesomeness than is Amazon Prime. But if you're willing to wait weeks for a meat thermometer or a pair of Mammut hiking pants, then have a nut. As far as I'm concerned, JB deserves every dime I throw his way. And I throw them that why by the thousands.

#93 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-01-11 02:27 PM | Reply

"The Walton heirs didn't "make" ----."

No, but they did (and do) allow those who do make ---- to bring their wares to a worldwide market. Which is why those who made the ---- prefer the Waltons to someone like you. Unless you have something better to offer them.

Do you?

#94 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-01-11 02:30 PM | Reply

"The poor man dying in a hovel... is he greedy? The woman who needs healthcare... is she greedy?"

They are greedy...unless they are willing to provide something of value in return. The poor dying man in a hovel or the woman who needs healthcare is no different than the business owner begging for a handout, so long as it's a handout that they're expecting.

#95 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-01-11 02:34 PM | Reply

"Sure it is. I live in society."

Then you should go out tomorrow and try and take someone's money. After all, isn't it yours as much as it is theirs?

#96 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-01-11 02:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#83 | POSTED BY BOAZ

Since you hate taxes and cooperative society so damn much, get the hell off of our socialized infrastructure, including all of your veterans benefits. You're just as much a freeloader as ANY welfare queen you like to sit on high and judge.

BTW:

Panama, Haiti, Grenada, Bosnia and a couple of others were very just causes.

#60 | POSTED BY BOAZ

We haven't fought any war that actually had anything to do with protecting America or our freedom since WWII. Damn, you're a greedy selfish POS!

#97 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2019-01-11 02:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"As far as I'm concerned, JB deserves every dime I throw his way."

Yeah but as fas as you're concerned Mohammad Atta deserved every dime Osama bin Laden threw his way too.

So you're not really saying anything.

#98 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-11 02:38 PM | Reply

"Then you should go out tomorrow and try and take someone's money."

Isn't that what everyone does when they go to work?

#99 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-11 02:39 PM | Reply

"The poor dying man in a hovel or the woman who needs healthcare is no different than the business owner begging for a handout"

From whose perspective???

Are you speaking as if you are money right now?

And since money is fungible, all expenditures look the same to you?

You're not money. You're a human being. There's no way a pooe person in a hovel looks the same as Jeff Bezos to you.

#100 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-11 02:43 PM | Reply

"Then you should go out tomorrow and try and take someone's money."

Yeah, you should look up the Is/Ought distinction.

#101 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 02:49 PM | Reply

"They are greedy...unless they are willing to provide something of value in return."

Well, now we've heard from the more explicit wing of the "starve the poor" right...

#102 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 02:50 PM | Reply

Isn't that what everyone does when they go to work?

#99 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2019-01-11 02:39 PM | FLAG:

More like what employers do to their workers.

#103 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 02:52 PM | Reply

"IF it were up to California, the entire country would be a welfare state." - #67 | Posted by boaz at 2019-01-11 01:36 PM

You're confusing Kansas with California.

And, in the case of Kansas, there'd be no money for the welfare state they created.

#104 | Posted by Hans at 2019-01-11 02:56 PM | Reply

"Isn't that what everyone does when they go to work?"

It may seem that way to someone who doesn't work for an income...but no.

"From whose perspective???"

From mine. As a person who A) has a little money, and B) has the ability to influence whether or not someone else's earned income should be taken and given to someone who didn't earn it.

"Yeah, you should look up the Is/Ought distinction."

Maybe. Years from now when I'm retired and have absolutely nothing better to do with my time.

"Well, now we've heard from the more explicit wing of the "starve the poor" right..."

I believe that you should have the right to choose to starve.

#105 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-01-11 03:06 PM | Reply

"Maybe. Years from now when I'm retired and have absolutely nothing better to do with my time."

And until then, your points will be as incoherent as that one was. I hope you are better at plumbing or whatever the hell you do.

"I believe that you should have the right to choose to starve."

Nice victim blaming, savage.

#106 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 03:10 PM | Reply

"From mine. As a person who A) has a little money, and B) has the ability to influence whether or not someone else's earned income should be taken and given to someone who didn't earn it."

We get that you are totally lacking in decency. No need to repeat yourself.

#107 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 03:11 PM | Reply

Boaz claims boil down to there is no government right to tax, without which there would be no military. While that would improve all our lives, most people recognize it is too risky a path in a world largely shaped by US militarism.

#108 | Posted by bayviking at 2019-01-11 03:23 PM | Reply

"I believe that you should have the right to choose to starve others, if they don't want to pay what you're asking for food."

Edited for clarity.

#109 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-11 03:25 PM | Reply

"Isn't that what everyone does when they go to work?

It may seem that way to someone who doesn't work for an income...but no."

Why isn't it?

You go to work.
You try to do what your boss wants.
If you succeed, you get paid.
If you fail, you get fired.

And that's really all there is to it.

#110 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-11 03:27 PM | Reply

"And until then, your points will be as incoherent as that one was. I hope you are better at plumbing or whatever the hell you do."

You're adorable.

"We get that you are totally lacking in decency. No need to repeat yourself."

Beria needed people like you. Hitler too. It's just sad you were born too late to get in on that sweet action.

#111 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-01-11 04:01 PM | Reply

"You're adorable."

For expecting a moron like you to know basic argumentation? I guess so! Now back to work,
Chimpy! There's a backed up toilet somewhere that needs plunging.

"Beria needed people like you. Hitler too. It's just sad you were born too late to get in on that sweet action."

People asking you to source your claims is Nazi-Stalinism! 🙈

#112 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2019-01-11 04:05 PM | Reply

No, but they did (and do) allow those who do make ---- to bring their wares to a worldwide market.

No, their dad did. We were discussing people who have "made" or "created" something. Sitting on the board of daddy's business doesn't count.

#113 | Posted by JOE at 2019-01-11 04:36 PM | Reply

"Beria needed people like you. Hitler too."

Who needs people like MadBomber?

#114 | Posted by snoofy at 2019-01-11 05:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"People asking you to source your claims is Nazi-Stalinism!"

Hmm. Your question is like asking, "did the Nazis really kill all those Jews??? I think I'm gonna need a source."

I feel like you're home schooled. Let me email your mom and let her know you need to get out of the basement a little more often.

"No, their dad did. We were discussing people who have "made" or "created" something. Sitting on the board of daddy's business doesn't count."

I'd say it very much does count if their influencing the company is such a way that it remains a viable medium for merchants to get their goods to market.

#115 | Posted by madbomber at 2019-01-12 01:10 AM | Reply

MB is a Superman... just ask the Zombie Ayn Rand. He is superior in that he has no ability to recognize "the other" person.... he's a Randian Objectivist.

It's what makes America great! (Again)

#116 | Posted by Corky at 2019-01-12 01:15 AM | Reply

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