Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, December 28, 2018

Costly complexity is baked into Obamacare. No health insurance system is without problems but Canadian-style single-payer, full Medicare for all, is simple, affordable, comprehensive and universal. In the early 1960s, President Lyndon Johnson enrolled 20 million elderly Americans into Medicare in six months. They did it with index cards! Everybody in, nobody out, free choice of doctor and hospital. It's a bad deal to keep Insurance companies in the middle taking your money for doing nothing but harm to your health.

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Good ol' Ralph Nader provides 25 solid reasons why Canada's system is better than ours. Imagine NO BILLS!

EVERYTHING Trump, Ryan, McConnell and most Republicans say is a lie. They lie to enrich themselves and their donors.

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And that's why Medical Tourism from Canadian citizens is so profitable for NE US Hospitals. They are making a fortune. Even from many Canadian elected officials.

#1 | Posted by bogey1355 at 2018-12-28 06:37 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"It's a bad deal to keep Insurance companies in the middle taking your money for doing nothing but harm to your health."

But, but, those big beautiful clean insurance jobs!! Don't we have to save them? WE have to save them!

Whatever will these poor poor workers and obscenely rich CEOs do when they can no longer skim off the top of our collective Misery?

#2 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-12-28 06:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 6

I think the big benefit for Canadians regarding health care costs is you just seldom have to think about it. I don't.

We pay huge chunks of income to taxes, but part of that comes from not having to pay for a stay in the hospital.

#3 | Posted by REDIAL at 2018-12-28 06:51 PM | Reply

Good ol' Ralph Nader provides 25 solid reasons why Canada's system is better than ours. Imagine NO BILLS!

EVERYTHING Trump, Ryan, McConnell and most Republicans say is a lie. They lie to enrich themselves and their donors.

QFT -- and the monstrosity that is the US Healthcare system goes hand-in-hand with the truth layed out in the Vonnegut thread ... www.drudge.com

#4 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-12-28 06:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

We pay huge chunks of income to taxes, but part of that comes from not having to pay for a stay in the hospital.

#3 | Posted by REDIAL

We pay huge chunks of income to our Insurance Companies in premiums who then do everything they can to limit our access to good healthcare. I would gladly pay those same premiums as taxes so we could eliminate the Leeches.

The ACA and the Dems really whacked em a good one but the Republicans have come to their rescue. And the ACA did not change the system to try and eliminate insurance companies because insurance lobbyists are too powerful (and it wouldn't have worked under that political climate anyway). All the ACA did was entrench them even more. The Leeches have burrowed in deep. And now Trump is trying to let them off the hook altogether so they can make even more profits off of suffering without any consequences.

#5 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-12-28 07:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

No health insurance system is without problems but Canadian-style single-payer, full Medicare for all, is simple, affordable, comprehensive and universal.

In the early 1960s, President Lyndon Johnson enrolled 20 million elderly Americans into Medicare in six months.

They did it with index cards!

Everybody in, nobody out, free choice of doctor and hospital. It's a bad deal to keep Insurance companies in the middle taking your money for doing nothing but harm to your health.


QFT

#6 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-12-28 08:14 PM | Reply

We pay huge chunks of income to our Insurance Companies in premiums who then do everything they can to limit our access to good healthcare.

Unlike some people, I think health care is pretty complicated. I've just always lived where it's just part of the package of being Canadian...

Big tax payments, little hospital bills. Never think about it.

#7 | Posted by REDIAL at 2018-12-28 08:25 PM | Reply

"Unlike some people, I think health care is pretty complicated."

Health care is indeed complicated.

Our problem isn't that health care is complicated.

It's that our payment mechanisms are needlessly complicated.

Which really has nothing to do with health care, and eveything to do with Capitalism.

We allow these health insurance companies to spend your premiums on things like bonuses, dividends, and stock buybacks. Things which have nothing whatsoever to do with health care, and everything to do with the zero-sum bean counter game of wealth redistribution.

Thanks, Capitalism!

#8 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-28 09:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 6

The US health system is full of people trying to monetize sickness.

#9 | Posted by bored at 2018-12-29 12:25 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 6

I think we all just need to learn to get down with the sickness.

youtu.be

#10 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-12-29 04:00 AM | Reply

Insurance companies are the largest lenders in the world... you bet its about money.

#11 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2018-12-29 05:41 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

business.financialpost.com

"only 43 per cent of Canadians were able to see a doctor or nurse on the same or next day when they needed care ... Half of them had to wait two or more hours for care in the emergency room ... 30 per cent of them had to wait two or more months to see a specialist ... and 18 per cent had to wait four or more months for elective surgery."

#12 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2018-12-29 07:02 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"only 43 per cent of Canadians were able to see a doctor or nurse on the same or next day when they needed care ... Half of them had to wait two or more hours for care in the emergency room ... 30 per cent of them had to wait two or more months to see a specialist ... and 18 per cent had to wait four or more months for elective surgery."
Sounds just like America.

#13 | Posted by Hans at 2018-12-29 07:35 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I'm probably going to the hospital this afternoon for kidney stones. At the moment they aren't really bothering me and may not need me to do anything but drink a bunch of water but on the off chance they need medical intervention I need to get it done before Tuesday.

I am at my out of pocket max for the year so if I go and get it checked out before Tuesday then it's free for me if I wait till after Tuesday I'll have a whole new out of pocket max to meet. So I'm going to make a medically inefficient decision because for me personally it is economically efficient.

How many thousands of people are going to be making similar decisions over the next couple days and how much waste will it add to the system?

#14 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2018-12-29 07:45 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#12, must not use the American Health Care System where it often takes 90 days to see a specialist and US insurance will not pay for ANY 'elective' surgery. US Hospital costs vary wildly, could be $1000/day or $100,000 for an operation. In the UK its free to ALL citizens, but about $150/day for hospitalized foreigners. Never been to Canada so I can't say how those costs compare.

Its long been recognized that France has the best system in the world providing levels of care NEVER available in the USA except for the Superrich and a few Federal officials. Yet, its free for citizens. Clearly the link supports the US for profit system. What else is a business/financial publication going to do. Total BS. Never read the 25 ways Canada is better than the USA.

#15 | Posted by bayviking at 2018-12-29 09:39 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

"only 43 per cent of Canadians were able to see a doctor or nurse on the same or next day when they needed care ... Half of them had to wait two or more hours for care in the emergency room ... 30 per cent of them had to wait two or more months to see a specialist ... and 18 per cent had to wait four or more months for elective surgery."
#12 | POSTED BY MUSTANG AT 2018-12-29 07:02 AM | FLAG:

Barfing out data about Canada without acknowledging that it's even worse in the US is....stupid.
www.commonwealthfund.org

#16 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-29 10:08 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

Please explain to me why so many Canadians come to the US for treatment.

#17 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-12-29 10:53 AM | Reply

"Please explain to me why so many Canadians come to the US for treatment."

How many? For what kind of treatments, and where do they go (as in which hospitals)? Link?

#18 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-12-29 10:56 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"Please explain to me why so many Canadians come to the US for treatment."

Please explain why so many Americans go to Mexico for treatment.

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-29 10:57 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

""only 43 per cent of Canadians were able to see a doctor or nurse on the same or next day when they needed care ... Half of them had to wait two or more hours for care in the emergency room ... 30 per cent of them had to wait two or more months to see a specialist ... and 18 per cent had to wait four or more months for elective surgery.""

Cry me a river. How many Americans don't get an appointment at all because they lack health insurance though they work full time? Your argument is hollow and stupid. Start comparing wait times AFTER all Americans have real access to healthcare, till then, your argument fails completely. You should be embarrassed for posting such stupidity.

#20 | Posted by danni at 2018-12-29 11:04 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"We allow these health insurance companies to spend your premiums on things like bonuses, dividends, and stock buybacks."

Then along comes Obama and Obamacare which placed limits on how much income insurance companies could divert from actual healthcare services. Then the Republicans, including average working class folks, cried "repeal and replace!"
Well, they never came up with a replacement and they've never repealed it but they have through various means reduced the benefit of the entire plan through many little cuts. They have deprived millions of the benefits of expanded Medicaid, and those people are working people who just don't make quite enough money to qualify for regular Obamacare. To me, it seems that working class Americans who vote Republican are really just sychophants of the rich. They honestly believe that wealth comes to those who "deserve" it, like Trump did.

#21 | Posted by danni at 2018-12-29 11:11 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Please explain to me why so many Canadians come to the US for treatment.

Because the very few who can afford to go on vacation to get surgery may do so, but wait times for elective surgery is one of maybe 100 metrics by which we evaluate health systems.

#22 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-29 11:31 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Please explain to me why so many Canadians come to the US for treatment."

I am not sure why anyone should bother to explain anything to you ... but maybe it's because you said please and even spelled your words correctly and put them in the right order this time!

The answer is money. 💰 it's pretty much always money.

1% of Canada can do whatever they want. Because they can. Just like the 1% of Americans can. Yay for the Canadian 1%!!

It's already been explain ad nauseam why America does not have the "best health care" in the world. It's not even close.

And even if it was (it's not) even the best health care in the world would do you no good if you don't have access to it.

Perhaps you can explain to us how we can have the best health care in the world yet so many Americans do not have access to it.

Please?

#23 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-12-29 12:30 PM | Reply

Over 99.9% of canadians get their healthcare in canada.
The ones that travel for elective or cosmetic care seldom go to the US unless they have private insurance.

#24 | Posted by bored at 2018-12-29 12:47 PM | Reply

Thousands of Canadians winter in the U.S. so if they need healthcare they probably don't fly all the way home to get it. I used to live in Hollywood, FL. We had probably 5000 Canadians living there most winters so statistics about them coming here for healthcare are skewed, should be, they are living here and seek healthcare services while they are here.

#25 | Posted by danni at 2018-12-29 12:51 PM | Reply

#12 | Posted by MUSTANG

At least only one of these rightwing fools has showed up with a feeble attempt the equate the two.

#26 | Posted by Angrydad at 2018-12-29 01:24 PM | Reply

Cry me a river. How many Americans don't get an appointment at all because they lack health insurance though they work full time? Your argument is hollow and stupid.

#20 | Posted by danni

They go straight to the emergancy room and get treatment for free......................

#27 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-12-29 02:07 PM | Reply

I am not sure why anyone should bother to explain anything to you ...

#23 | Posted by donnerboy

And I am not sure why you still are breathing.

#28 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-12-29 02:09 PM | Reply

They go straight to the emergancy room and get treatment for free......................

#27 | POSTED BY SNIPER AT 2018-12-29 02:07 PM | FLAG:

Which more accessible healthcare would FIX, you brainless goon.

Oh and still not an option for plenty of people, at least until it is too late to fix their condition...

#29 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-12-29 02:10 PM | Reply

Damn, Canadiand do come to the US for healthcare.

www.usnews.com

#30 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-12-29 02:12 PM | Reply

While working my company provided health insurance with which I was very happy. Currently I am on Medicare with which I am also happy. I think Medicare for all is a good idea with some modifications. I think the amount the individual pays before insurance starts paying should be relatively high. The individual should be allowed to establish a medical savings account with any money not spent during a given year going into his or her personal IRA. The purpose of these modifications is to make sure everyone is aware of what the medical care costs and will shop around for the best deals. There should be a maximum set for what an individual pays each year. Scholarships should be expanded for medical education with the provision that following graduation a number of years is required to work for the government providing service to the poor. The overall yearly medical budget should be established by congress with a panel of economists and medical professionals price fixing the cost of medical procedures.

#31 | Posted by SWIFTCLONE at 2018-12-29 02:26 PM | Reply

"They go straight to the emergancy room and get treatment for free......................"

Then they go home with chronic illness, potentially terminal, after the ER stabilizes their immediate condition. Then they get sicker and finally die from diseases real healthcare could have cured.

From Sniper's article:

"The Commonwealth Fund, a U.S. think tank, released a report two years ago ranking Canada 10th out of 11 wealthy nations in terms of health care. Only the United States fared worse. The report, based largely on satisfaction surveys by patients and health-care providers, placed Canada last in timeliness of care. The United Kingdom was ranked No. 1"

So, what I take from that is that perhaps the U.S. should model our future healthcare system on the U.K. not Canada. That's fine with me but it is far more Socialistic than Canada's system so I doubt Sniper would like it very much. The one clear fact though is that the U.S. system totally sucks, allows higher infant mortality and lower life expectancy than either Canada or U.K. Thanks for the link Sniper.

#32 | Posted by danni at 2018-12-29 02:32 PM | Reply

"I think the amount the individual pays before insurance starts paying should be relatively high."

Brilliant! Then most people would put off having the healthcare services they should have until their disease is either terminal or much worse than if detected earlier. It is a fact that providing preventive healthcare for free reduces the cost of healthcare in the United States. Barrack Obama proved that is true.

#33 | Posted by danni at 2018-12-29 02:34 PM | Reply

Also from Sniper's article:

"The Fraser Institute, a Canadian public policy think tank, estimates that 52,513 Canadians received non-emergency medical treatment in the U.S. and other countries in 2014, a 25 percent jump from the roughly 41,838 who sought medical care abroad the previous year."

REalize, at least that number of Canadians winter in the United States every year and, of course, many of them requuire some medical services while they are here. But most of them did not travel here for medical services, they travelled here for sunshine, that's why so many of them are my neighbors down here in S. Florida. Guess what, here's a clue. When you actually know them and talk to them you learn. I've actually known one particular individual for many years, he has had a terrible bout with cancer over many years and has lost one arm and other portions of his body. When he requires treatment he's on a plane home where he gets it for free. My daughter in law is from Ukraine, she does the same thing transatlantic. Opponents of Medicare for all will try to find ways to tear down the healthcare systems of other nations and dishonestly present them but it is b******t, even Ukraine, not a rich nation provides their people better healthcare services than does the U.S. provide for our people.

#34 | Posted by danni at 2018-12-29 02:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

My sister and mother live in Canada. It has the second to last rated health system of rich countries. But its system is better and far cheaper than the US system of organized extortion of the sick.

Only the greedy and gullible support the USA system. The GOP base.

#35 | Posted by bored at 2018-12-29 08:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Please explain to me why so many Canadians come to the US for treatment.

#17 | POSTED BY SNIPER AT 2018-12-29 10:53 AM | REPLY

A McKinsey and Co. report from 2008 found that between 60,000 to 85,000 medical tourists were travelling to the United States for the purpose of receiving in-patient medical care.

The same McKinsey study estimated that 750,000 American medical tourists travelled from the United States to other countries in 2007 (up from 500,000 in 2006).

If America has the best healthcare why do 12 times as many Americans travel to other Countries for Healthcare as come TO America for Health care?

#36 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-12-29 11:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Cost

#37 | Posted by visitor_ at 2018-12-30 02:31 AM | Reply

If there had been It has the second to last rated health system of rich countries.
#35 | POSTED BY BORED AT 2018-12-29 08:29 PM | REPLY | FLAG" TRUTH

USA places 43 out of 100 industrialized nations.

We pay the most for mediocre.

Which is probably why white guys are killing themselves at an alarming rate and people all over are afu on opiates to make their miserable lives tolerable.

We're #1 at bragging.

#38 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2018-12-30 06:21 AM | Reply

My bad... since the inception of the Affordable Care Act ... called Obamacare by the dumba$$ class so they wouldn't have to explain why they are against affordable healthcare... we've moved up to 37th place from 43rd.

Wow it must be working... unlike Truplethinskin's shutdown.

Obama bested him again.

#39 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2018-12-30 06:36 AM | Reply

And that's why Medical Tourism from Canadian citizens is so profitable for NE US Hospitals. They are making a fortune. Even from many Canadian elected officials.

#1 | POSTED BY BOGEY1355

Do you know and understand the concept of Evidence-based Medicine?

Here, let me help you ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Evidence based medicine (EBM) is the conscientious, explicit, judicious and reasonable use of modern, best evidence in making decisions about the care of individual patients. EBM integrates clinical experience and patient values with the best available research information. It is a movement which aims to increase the use of high quality clinical research in clinical decision making.

If a medical procedure is not indicated ("indicated" meaning it's necessary to correct serious or life-threatening conditions medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com ) ... so if a procedure or treatment is not based on science and evidence, then it's just wasted time and money -- understand?

And in America, we waste ~ $750 billion in healhcare costs EVERY YEAR. Your taxes helps pay for all this unnecessary healthcare.

So when Canadians come to the U.S. for medical procedures, the chances are very high that it's for an elective surgery for a non-serious and non-life-threatening condition. And, of course, they will be counter examples, but there are the exemptions.

#40 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-12-30 08:26 AM | Reply

Only the greedy and gullible support the USA system. The GOP base.

#35 | Posted by bored

Or an insecure, consumption-based society.

I personally think it's just another way to show social status to right wingers. Having a job with benefits is a mark of success and, therefore, superiority over those who don't.

The ACA was the equivalent of giving everybody gas guzzling SUVs in----------- Trump base land.

#41 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-30 10:13 AM | Reply

"The ACA was the equivalent of giving everybody gas guzzling SUVs in----------- Trump base land."

I personally know at least 10 people who got healthcare insurance for the first time in years because of ACA. It save lives, it saved dollars, it was a total success. Not perfect but then what is? Do you have any idea how many Americans, with pre-existing conditions, were able to buy healthcare insurance which SAVED THEIR LIVES because of ACA? I personally know several INCLUDING MY DAUGHTER.

#42 | Posted by danni at 2018-12-30 10:20 AM | Reply

"The same McKinsey study estimated that 750,000 American medical tourists travelled from the United States to other countries in 2007 (up from 500,000 in 2006)."

One of my best friends traveled to Mexico for a complete dental treatment, came back happy and healthy with bright shiny white teeth.

#43 | Posted by danni at 2018-12-30 10:22 AM | Reply

Anyone remember Sarah Palin tell us where she went for healthcare when she was younger? Her answer to that question tells you everything you need to know about this discussion.

#44 | Posted by danni at 2018-12-30 10:24 AM | Reply

#42 | Posted by danni

Easy Danni, I was offering up an explanation for why righties are so keen on seeing millions go without insurance.

The point of my post is that to their selfish a--es healthcare is just another part of keeping up with the Joneses. They need to feel superior and having insurance is a mark of that.

#45 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-30 10:34 AM | Reply

Fair enough JPW but I do have a slightly different opinion on that. They think "lazy black welfare Cadillac owning queens" are getting something for nothing and they have been motivated by that wrong headed idea ever since Ronald Reagan put that idea in their stupid heads.
IMHO, the worst part was Reagan was a Democrat until his father in law converted him to a right wing lunatic. Reagan wasn't smart enough to actually be evil, he was just trying to get his father in law to love him.

#46 | Posted by danni at 2018-12-30 11:00 AM | Reply

"only 43 per cent of Canadians were able to see a doctor or nurse on the same or next day when they needed care ... Half of them had to wait two or more hours for care in the emergency room ... 30 per cent of them had to wait two or more months to see a specialist ... and 18 per cent had to wait four or more months for elective surgery."

Sounds just like America.

#13 | POSTED BY HANS

I don't know where Mustang lives, but that sounds better than the healthcare in the part of America where I live.

#47 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2018-12-30 04:12 PM | Reply

When you go to an ER the first person you see after you register is the triage nurse. In a busy ER the triage nurse has the role of determining which patient has the most urgent need for care. It is NOT 1st come 1st serve. If you are waiting for an x-ray of a twisted ankle you will sit while they take care of someone having a cardiac event first.

#48 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-12-31 11:03 AM | Reply

I had good insurance. I had a good job. I owned my own home and had a car and a truck. Life was good. Then my kidneys failed. I blew through the lifetime cap for renal on my insurance in the first 2 week hospital stay. A month later the insurance company did not offer renewal to our company as a whole. I lost my job because with me working the entire company had to pay way higher rates that were untenable. I was forced to liquidate everything I owned to pay for medical expenses BEFORE I could get medicaid or other government assistance. I went from a 6 bedroom house to a studio apartment. I had to sell both my vehicles I could not afford insurance on even one. I had tons of experience and knowledge but could not get a job because of my pre-existing condition. Anyone that hired me would face huge cost increases for all of their employees. Then Obama got elected. Obamacare got passed. I was able to learn a new skill so I could work with my physical limitations. I now work full time plus on call rotation. I have dialysis 3 days a week for 4 hours. Without Obamacare I would have been on SSDI the rest of my life. With Obamacare I am able to pay my own way and pay a lot of taxes. I would welcome higher taxes in return for universal healthcare. I have spent 12 years being gouged by the bean counters who think people like me should just go somewhere else and die quickly and quietly.

Unless you have an actual idea for getting coverage to people like me without forcing me to live in squalor to qualify stop trying to wreck what is working for millions of americans

#49 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-12-31 03:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Tatter5183's story is tragic yet ends in hope because of Obamacare yet we have so many people who want to take that "life boat" away from him I don't know how people like that can live with themselves.

#50 | Posted by danni at 2018-12-31 03:21 PM | Reply

Tatter5183 = Hatter5183, sorry about that.

#51 | Posted by danni at 2018-12-31 03:21 PM | Reply

#49

Dude. Sorry to hear. 😕

#52 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-31 03:26 PM | Reply

Hatter is an amazing person who had the misfortune of being born in a heartless country. Most poor countries are not heartless, but they are in no position to help all their poor. America is different it can afford to do it, better than any other Western economy, they just refuse, unlike every other Western economy. America would rather squander its precious resources practicing Imperialism with Bankers and weapons of mass destruction.

#53 | Posted by bayviking at 2018-12-31 07:28 PM | Reply

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