Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, December 07, 2018

Some 252 million years ago, Earth almost died. In the oceans, 96 percent of all species became extinct. It's harder to determine how many terrestrial species vanished, but the loss was comparable. This mass extinction, at the end of the Permian Period, was the worst in the planet's history, and it happened over a few thousand years at most -- the blink of a geological eye.

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Is that how all the ice ages ended? Who drove all the SUVs that killed the cold spell athat allowed the planet to warm enough to grow enough trees to form all the coal? This planet has gone through many warm and cold cycles before man drove cars and burned that dirty coal.

#1 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-12-07 04:31 PM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

"This planet has gone through many warm and cold cycles before man drove cars and burned that dirty coal."

How do you know?
You weren't there.
And you don't believe climate scientists either.

So, what exactly leads you to make your preposterous claim?

#2 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-07 04:33 PM | Reply

He believes the parts he wants to believe and vehemently attacks the rest.

#3 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2018-12-07 04:56 PM | Reply

He thinks its ok if it happens again extinction of everything larger than an amoeba and all

#4 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-12-07 11:30 PM | Reply

This planet has gone through many warm and cold cycles before man drove cars and burned that dirty coal.

#1 | Posted by Sniper

Still spouting this ignorant trash.

F&%$ off moron. You're trying to "discuss" something way above your pay grade.

#5 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-08 01:58 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Yeah... and this time it is caused by humanity.

most every bio-organism that has inhabited this little blue galactic dirt ball is extinct too.

#6 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2018-12-08 06:43 AM | Reply

Humanity is also a natural phenomena... every bit as much as a meteor... and seems to be just as damaging.... like locusts on the planet... we are a collective organism made from this planet.

I know the Jayzys Kryst crowd like to think they are special beings of light... custom made by gawd for a special purpose... like helping Jayzys kill muzlums and satan... or something holy like that... and this is all there is... but they are truly ignorant.

Too bad when Jayzys warned that there would be wars and rumors of wars earth quakes etc he didn't also include that his followers would be turned into self destructive dumb$hi†s

#7 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2018-12-08 06:57 AM | Reply

The Permian Extinction was caused by the Siberian Trapps volcano. It caused greenhouse gas levels similar to what we'll see but it took a few thousand years. Ours will happen much quicker so it will be worse. The Permian wiped out almost all life on the planet. What's worse than that? All life? And still deniers will spout fossil fuel propaganda like CO2 is plant food. That's one reason denial is so stupid. The planet has seen global warming before and we know what it does.

#8 | Posted by SomebodyElse at 2018-12-08 08:04 AM | Reply

-- It caused greenhouse gas levels similar to what we'll see

Got any hot stock tips, Miss Cleo?

#9 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-08 08:13 AM | Reply

#9 - you competing with Sniper now?

#10 | Posted by YAV at 2018-12-08 08:43 AM | Reply

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scripps.ucsd.edu

#11 | Posted by YAV at 2018-12-08 08:46 AM | Reply

--#9 - you competing with Sniper now?

You competing with the street corner preacher screaming "repent, the end is near"?

#12 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-08 09:00 AM | Reply

--scripps.ucsd.edu

thefederalist.com

#13 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-08 09:09 AM | Reply

#13
"Annual"
"In the US"
"From energy consumption"

None of that is a refutation of the chart you responded to.

#14 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-08 09:16 AM | Reply

I cite Scripps, and you cite "The Federalist" citing something the American Enterprise Institute came up with no attribution and no sourcing of the data?

www.esrl.noaa.gov

You are nothing but political now, at all costs, even if it means ignoring facts staring you right in the face.

By the way, the Northwest Passage is open. Cruise ships are now making the trip.

#15 | Posted by YAV at 2018-12-08 09:28 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

American Enterprise Institute is hogwash.

#16 | Posted by hamburglar at 2018-12-08 09:33 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

--no attribution and no sourcing of the data?

"Source: Energy Information Administration"

Reading is fundamental.

#17 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-08 09:34 AM | Reply

--American Enterprise Institute is hogwash.

STS because it doesn't support your ideology.

#18 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-08 09:36 AM | Reply

None of that is a refutation of the chart you responded to.

Nice point-by-point take down.

Reminds me of when he put out graphs on the Northwest Passage showing increasing ice - From the beginning of November to the end of November. Seriously? It was so bad I thought he had to be trolling.

I don't know if it's that he's dishonest, or genuinely so desperate to find something, anything to confirm his bias he doesn't check, doesn't think critically, doesn't realize what he's doing.

#19 | Posted by YAV at 2018-12-08 09:36 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

STS because it doesn't support your ideology.

No. It's because it doesn't say what you think it says, or you were so busy trying to make some point that you didn't realize what you posted was crap.

Joe nailed it.

#20 | Posted by YAV at 2018-12-08 09:37 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

--www.esrl.noaa.gov

Another chart that doesn't prove worst-case global warming, only that ppm has increased. My chart shows that US emissions are declining, and that's the only thing that US public policy can effect.

#21 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-08 09:44 AM | Reply

Don't like my source? Take your pick from other sources.

www.google.com

#22 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-08 09:47 AM | Reply

--no attribution and no sourcing of the data?
Reading is fundamental.

Let me be more specific. Who drew the graph, what data did they use, etc. We already know they looked at one output measure, only. We also know it's for the U.S. only, and we know the time frame.

We also know the U.S. manufacturing output declined due to the recession, and that states, like California are doing what they can to help reduce greenhouse gas emissions. We know that coal is down and natural gas usage is up (in the charts below) and that's helping.

What you should have posted was a graph like these (keeping in mind, as Joe already indicated, are only for U.S. Energy-related carbon dioxide emissions:

www.eia.gov

Which is unrelated to the point that was made, or how this is one planet and what's happening to CO2 levels on a global scale. That's why I posted the Scipps data, and sourcing. Or if you prefer:
www.climate.gov

#23 | Posted by YAV at 2018-12-08 09:53 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Nice google search terms you used there, Null:

us leads the world in reducing carbon emissions

No bias in that! LMAO!

Which is not what this thread is about, or what any of the discussion was about. You had to move those goalposts to make a point.

#24 | Posted by YAV at 2018-12-08 09:57 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

and that's the only thing that US public policy can effect.

Faulty premise. Again. Unrelated to the point. Goalpost moving now admitted, at least, so there's that.

#25 | Posted by YAV at 2018-12-08 09:59 AM | Reply

--are only for U.S. Energy-related carbon dioxide emissions:

Which is the only thing that the US can control or mitigate. We can't force China and India or any other country to stop building coal plants or reduce their population or slow their economic growth.

#26 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-08 10:00 AM | Reply

Wrong.

#27 | Posted by YAV at 2018-12-08 10:02 AM | Reply

-- Unrelated to the point

What point? That the planet has had cycles of warming and cooling? True. So what?

#28 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-08 10:06 AM | Reply

The only option is "force?"

I'm not interested in discussing this any further. First you had to move the goalposts from what this article was all about, and now you're stating the only way to get other countries to help is by force.

I could discuss treaties, what's been accomplished, what self-interest is. I could bring up examnples, like the ozone hole, acid rain, any of the myriad of things we've accomplished as a species by working together, government to government, NGO to NGO.

This is all too basic to miss, and yet you're doing just that. It isn't interesting. Nor is you missing the entire point of the article with your #28.

#29 | Posted by YAV at 2018-12-08 10:12 AM | Reply

If your neighbor is irate that you let your dog run loose in his yard, you can pacify him. If he's irate that you are reading his thoughts through his tinfoil hat, there's nothing you can do except disengage.
Jonathan Chait

You're going to have to learn to just ignore Snippy & other Russian trolls.

#30 | Posted by SomebodyElse at 2018-12-08 11:20 AM | Reply

The reason our country's emissions have gone down the past several decades is because we now outsource them to China... Doh.

#31 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2018-12-08 12:41 PM | Reply

-- It caused greenhouse gas levels similar to what we'll see
Got any hot stock tips, Miss Cleo?

#9 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN/i>

You really have gone way off the loony bin end.

#32 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-08 01:10 PM | Reply

STS because it doesn't support your ideology.

#18 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Says the guy posting political think tank garbage as a "refutation" of actual science...

You've gotten so bad the word pathetic doesn't even describe it anymore.

#33 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-08 01:13 PM | Reply

Faulty premise. Again. Unrelated to the point. Goalpost moving now admitted, at least, so there's that.

#25 | POSTED BY YAV

What's funny is that his goal post move here (US reduction in emissions) is caused by things like solar power becoming increasingly more common, which he ----- all over in the CA mandating new homes to have solar panels installed.

He doesn't care what garbage is spewing from his maw, so long as it's sneeringly directed at "libruls".

#34 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-08 01:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

What point? That the planet has had cycles of warming and cooling? True. So what?

#28 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Duuuuuuhhh the climate has always cycled...duuuhhhhhhh *drool*

Why do you bother opening your ignorant trap?

#35 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-08 01:18 PM | Reply

"What point? That the planet has had cycles of warming and cooling? True. So what?"

What's the point? We are all gonna die! Someday. But then we can finally all play with baby Jesus! (Taking turns and being very polite of course!)

Who cares! Heaven awaits!

Anyway. Jesus or Aliens or something will surely come along save us from ourselves! Let it Be written! Let it be said! Let it be done!

And baby Jesus wouldn't let us all die. What would be the point in that?

Who would worship baby Jesus if we are all dead! Who would appreciate the Majesty of the Dream if we were all dead?

So stop worrying! Baby Jesus gots this!

#36 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-12-08 02:07 PM | Reply

#32 | Posted by jpw
#33 | Posted by jpw
#34 | Posted by jpw
#35 | Posted by jpw

Wrong.

#37 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-08 02:16 PM | Reply

Wrong.

#37 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Good. You understood what I was telling you.

You've shown nothing but abject ignorance and dishonesty on this thread.

#38 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-08 02:51 PM | Reply

The earth has gone through numerous natural hot and cold cycles [and will continue to do so]. Mankind cannot stop, start, or pause this, so all we can do is adapt. As for the which is preferable for man is a warming cycle as an ice age would be more detrimental with less and less areas to grow sustenance for our populations of billions.

#39 | Posted by MSgt at 2018-12-08 04:59 PM | Reply

You guys really have no idea how foolish you look using that argument, do you? Better, you have no idea how it highlights your ignorance and dishonesty, do you?

#40 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-08 05:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Greenhouse gases are not real. In fact, I didn't just type that term.

The only places you can find "evidence" that we don't need to do anything about global warming are oil company funded right wing thinktanks and $#!+rags. All of the apolitical organizations are actually part of the vast liberal conspiracy to get us all to fund science jobs because scientists weren't smart enough to work for oil companies or Wall Street, or some stupid crap like that

#41 | Posted by hamburglar at 2018-12-08 05:32 PM | Reply

#39 | Posted by MSgt

Sorry, was on my phone and didn't feel like typing more than that drive by post.

The "climate has always cycled" argument is foolish and dishonest for these reasons.

1. The claim isn't that simple warming is what's different. There's never been an idea of climate being static. The GW data shows that human activities are accelerating normal warming processes and creating feed forward loops that amplify our effect. So it's never, EVER, been about stopping, starting or pausing anything and has always been about our changes leading to time frames that are too short for effective adaptation.

2. The argument is dishonest and disingenuous because the very people who produced the data that allows you to even make that argument are the same people saying our activity is modifying normal dynamics. Your cherry picking their work to serve your purposes without actually understanding what you're doing or what it means. In addition, you're pointing to the basis of the entire conclusion of GW as the reason why it's wrong. Do I really need to explain why that's absurd?

#42 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-08 05:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Sniper needs to read the Deception Dossiers. These are documents obtained from Exxon and other oil companies under the FOIA and lawsuits. They show Exxon's own scientists warned them as early as 1978. A 'Roadmap to Victory' memo outlined that climate change obfuscation was the goal and that victory would be achieved when the average person was undecided about the evidence:

The scanned documents are available via the Union of Concerned Scientists: www.ucsusa.org

#43 | Posted by zarnon at 2018-12-09 05:40 AM | Reply

Mostly from the Link and Wikipedia:
Uncertainty exists regarding the duration of the Permian extinction and about the timing and duration of various groups' extinctions within the greater process. Some evidence suggests that there were multiple extinction pulses or that the extinction was spread out over a few million years, with a sharp peak in the last million years of the Permian.
No one should think that the consequences to the planet's natural order over a period of a few million years are comparable to a 200 year period of human industrialization.
The Siberian volcanoes ultimately delivered much more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere than we will ever emit by burning fossil fuels. But our annual rate of carbon emissions is actually higher.
The carbon we released over the past two centuries already has made the atmosphere warmer, and the ocean has absorbed much of that heat. And now, just as during the Permian-Triassic extinction, the ocean is losing oxygen. Over the past fifty years, oxygen levels have declined by 2 percent.

If we proceed to use up all the fossil fuels on Earth, it could warm by as much as 17 degrees Fahrenheit by 2300.
As the ocean warms, its oxygen levels will continue to drop. If ancient history is any guide, the consequences for life, especially marine life in the cooler parts of the ocean, will be disastrous.
"Left unchecked, climate warming is putting our future on the same scale as some of the worst events in geological history," Dr. Deutsch said.

#44 | Posted by bayviking at 2018-12-09 02:03 PM | Reply

I thought global warming denialism wasn't tolerated on this site.

#45 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-12-09 06:25 PM | Reply

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