Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, December 07, 2018

California officially became the first state in the nation on Wednesday, Dec. 5 to require homes built in 2020 and later be solar powered. To a smattering of applause, the California Building Standards Commission voted unanimously to add energy standards approved last May by another panel to the state building code.

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Just what the poor need ... you do understand why Paris is burning right? I am sure I messed up something in the title so my apologies ahead of time to Danforth and his insensibilities.

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California raises prices of housing during housing crisis. Brilliant.

#1 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-06 11:10 PM | Reply

"California raises prices of housing during housing crisis. "

Thanks, Republican Math™!

California lowers overall long-term costs of housing during housing crisis; eases long-term pressures on energy suppliers.
~Actual Math™

#2 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-06 11:22 PM | Reply

Fake math. This drives up prices. You can't get long term savings if you can't afford the house in the first place.

#3 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-06 11:37 PM | Reply

"This drives up prices."

And immediately lowers monthly costs. Owners can also enter into agreements to lease, though I'd bet at worse rates than mortgages.

"Fake math."

You wouldn't know the math if it bit you in the ---.

Here's mine: At this point, it saves $40 a month, and costs less than $51/mo at 4.5%, 30 years. That's an $11/mo net cost, or $132/year. It should also be noted the $51 payment is a set dollar amount, the value of which will decrease over the years due to inflation. Meanwhile, the $40 a month savings will go the other way as rates rise, so the savings will eventually outstrip the cost.

Your turn: show me your "real math" that proves your claim.

#4 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-07 12:09 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Nulli has trouble with the maths.... they won't get offa his lawn, either.

#5 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-07 12:32 AM | Reply

GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! More states should do the same.

#6 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-12-07 12:44 AM | Reply

Nulli, where'd you go?

When you posted "Fake math", you certainly had your own to prove me wrong, right?

Post your math.

#7 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-07 12:46 AM | Reply

Nulli, where'd you go?

Thought I heard a door slam and someone running down the alley a while ago.

#8 | Posted by REDIAL at 2018-12-07 12:48 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

This will be fascinating to watch unfold.

This is federalism at it's finest.

#9 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-07 12:54 AM | Reply

--Nulli, where'd you go?

The world doesn't revolve around you, Archimedes.

#10 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-07 12:59 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

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"The world doesn't revolve around you, Archimedes."

Does that mean you have the math, or are you about to start tap dancing?

#11 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-07 01:01 AM | Reply

--GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! More states should do the same.

What would you know about it? You live in Kansas, and don't have to cope with our sky-high housing prices.

#12 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-07 01:06 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#12

Tap Dance #1

#13 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-07 01:08 AM | Reply

--This is federalism at it's finest.

Except it's brain dead. It's global warming, not California warming.

#14 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-07 01:10 AM | Reply

What would you know about it? You live in Kansas, and don't have to cope with our sky-high housing prices.

What the fffk does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Requiring solar panels on new constructions is a great idea. Will help save energy. Will in fact produce energy.

#15 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-07 01:10 AM | Reply

#14

Tap Dance #2

#16 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-07 01:11 AM | Reply

"Will help save energy. Will in fact produce energy."

And will leave more land to build housing.

#17 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-07 01:12 AM | Reply

California officially became the first state in the nation on Wednesday, Dec. 5 to require homes built in 2020 and later be solar powered.

Makes me proud to be a Californian.

#18 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-07 01:13 AM | Reply

--Requiring solar panels on new constructions is a great idea

If they were such a great idea they would be selling like hot cakes without mandates or subsidies. This is just another example of greenie weenies try to regulate everything they can get their Statist hands on.

#19 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-07 01:15 AM | Reply

#19

Tap Dance #3

Clearly, you have neither the math to show, nor the class to admit it.

#20 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-07 01:16 AM | Reply

You're not nearly as important as you think you are, Archimedes. You're just another anonymous windbag on a tiny blog.

#21 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-07 01:19 AM | Reply

--Makes me proud to be a Californian.

It'll make me laugh when you are priced out of the state by our braindead space cadets in Sacramento.

#22 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-07 01:22 AM | Reply

"If they were such a great idea they would be selling like hot cakes without mandates or subsidies."

Doesn't follow. Try again.

#23 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-12-07 01:40 AM | Reply

Poor Nulli... so angry at everything good his state does. Must be terrible to be dragged kicking and screaming into the future.

#24 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-12-07 01:41 AM | Reply

"You're not nearly as important as you think you are, Archimedes.'

And now the crying starts.

"You're just another anonymous windbag on a tiny blog."

Probably. But I mattered enough for you to accuse me of Fake Math. Now you're just embarrassed, after being outed as having NO math.

#25 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-07 01:42 AM | Reply

--Poor Nulli... so angry at everything good his state does.

What state do you live in, Dirk?

#26 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-07 01:48 AM | Reply

Except it's brain dead. It's global warming, not California warming.

#14 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2018-12-07 01:10 AM | FLAG:

Faulty logic. As if no one should take positive steps unless everyone else does.

#27 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-12-07 01:49 AM | Reply

"You're just another anonymous windbag"

Um...just to recap:

You made a claim.
I pointed out a major mitigating factor.
You puffed up and proclaimed "Fake math".
I did the math for you, and showed costs of less than 37 cents a day.
I pointed out megatrends for both cost and savings, proving the number gets better with time.
I asked you to show YOUR math, that backed up your claim.

(Crickets)
(Tap Dancing)
(Tap Dancing)
(More Tap Dancing)

And then you told me I'm not as important as I think I am, before accusing me of being a windbag.

Is anyone else laughing as hard as I am???

#28 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-07 01:55 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

What would you know about it? You live in Kansas, and don't have to cope with our sky-high housing prices.

#12 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-07 01:06 AM | Reply

It would save a whole lot of money on electric bills. Hell they should demand this nation wide and help reduce pollution and waste disposal..

#29 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-12-07 02:43 AM | Reply

California raises prices of housing during housing crisis. Brilliant.

Perhaps your rich friend Andreà can loan you some of her trust fund money.

#30 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-07 05:40 AM | Reply

You're not nearly as important as you think you are, Archimedes. You're just another anonymous windbag on a tiny blog.
#21 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Prime example of a self retorting retort.

You couldn't have described yourself any better.

Or any of us really.

#31 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-07 05:46 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Well I could post on a small blog
And I can rant on a small blog
Gonna have a time on this small blog
And that's probably where they'll plonk me"

- apologies to John Mellencamp

#32 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2018-12-07 06:17 AM | Reply

And immediately lowers monthly costs. Owners can also enter into agreements to lease, though I'd bet at worse rates than mortgages.

#4 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2018-12-07 12:09 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

I did the math on my new house build. I'm an ideal candidate, I work from home and use more than average energy. The system to support my energy needs cost $40k and took 13 years to pay off in a best case scenario of optimal generation and no hardware failures ever. I did not include additional insurance (hurricane zone), 5 and 10 year battery bank replacement parts, grid tie inverter replacements, etc. I'm already on wind power, have been for over a decade, so it would increase my carbon footprint to go solar.

I have considered a leased system. I have enough yard space to put a $200k array in and never have to damage my roof. The buy-back rates for the power are not bad, but natural gas is still the king of cheap energy.

#33 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-07 08:30 AM | Reply

It's nice to see micro-generation finally getting some traction at least. It's come a long way from when the only people doing it were preppers, or people trying to heat a pool cheaply.

#34 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-07 08:37 AM | Reply

Requiring solar panels on new constructions is a great idea.

#15 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2018-12-07 01:10 AM | REPLY

Catch 22. If it's such a great idea, and the math always works, it doesn't have to be required. People would just do it.

#35 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-07 09:12 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Sitz effectively killed this thread.

#36 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-07 09:55 AM | Reply

People would just do it.

#35 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

Like fire detectors.

People are doing it. But, people are lazy and apparently have trouble believing the math.

#37 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-12-07 10:12 AM | Reply

Then that begs the question. Whom here actually has any form of micro-generation setup whatsoever? They've been available for decades.

#38 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-07 10:28 AM | Reply

"If it's such a great idea, and the math always works, it doesn't have to be required. People would just do it."

That would require people to understand math. Clearly from this site, way too many people don't. Look at all the threads posted where the authors themselves are clueless.

Just yesterday, a thread was posted where the authors took all of the minuses for immigrants and concluded that the end result of the equation was a minus. Of course they didn't bother with a single plus. And the DR math illiterates cheered it on.

#39 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-07 10:32 AM | Reply

What micro-generation system do you use Danforth?

#40 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-07 10:33 AM | Reply

I'm moving too soon for investment recapture.

But things like extra insulation, a programmable thermostat, and thermal windows were outfitted when we first moved in, so they've long paid for themselves.

#41 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-07 10:37 AM | Reply

So.. none, because the math doesn't work... It doesn't work for me either on the new build, we'll only be in it 8 to 10 years.

#42 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-07 10:43 AM | Reply

I considered a portable solar panel to handle battery charging for my giant scale model aircraft, but it's close to $600 to get only half the amps I need :(

#43 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-07 10:45 AM | Reply

"So.. none, because the math doesn't work... It doesn't work for me either on the new build, we'll only be in it 8 to 10 years."

The solar panels wouldn't increase the property value when it comes time for you to sell?

#44 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2018-12-07 10:46 AM | Reply

Somewhat. It's a depreciating asset. If you're in for 10 years, the panels only have 1/2 their lifespan left and all of the infrastructure needs overhaul. You're not going to be able to stick the full price tag on an informed buyer.

#45 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-07 10:47 AM | Reply

I'm moving too soon for investment recapture. ~ Danforth

Stick in the price like these mandates ...

Walk the talk ...

#46 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2018-12-07 10:48 AM | Reply

You do get stuck with the property taxes of the full system cost though for the entire lifespan of the system. Government doesn't give a crap about the panel lifespan.

#47 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-07 10:49 AM | Reply

"Stick in the price like these mandates ...Walk the talk ..."

I did stick in the prices. That's why I'm delaying until the next house.

But go ahead and show YOUR math.

If you have any.

#48 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-07 10:56 AM | Reply

On the property tax increases, Texas will give you a 100% exclusion, but only on a new installation. Bought a used house? No love. Might have changed, but I doubt it.

California exclusions are around 75% for some types, Nevada is 55% on pretty much everything. Check your local tax codes before building anything.

#49 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-07 11:05 AM | Reply

#39. That thread was a comparison between citizens and non citizens. You moved the goalposts.

#50 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-07 11:34 AM | Reply

"That thread was a comparison between citizens and non citizens."

A thread on an article that ONLY considered the minuses...and then concluded non-citizens were minuses.

Nothing about the billions into the SS system from people who will never realize a dime.

YOU chose an author who wasn't showing the whole picture...because it was the picture you wanted.

#51 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-07 11:50 AM | Reply

The comparison was of the minuses. You only added the pluses for non citizens because it was the picture you wanted.

#52 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-07 12:40 PM | Reply

If you don't have both sides of the equation, your picture sucks.

#53 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-07 12:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"The comparison was of the minuses. You only added the pluses for non citizens because it was the picture you wanted."

The comparison was of the minuses, and the conclusion of the authors was therefore non-citizens are minuses.

Reread the article you posted as many times as it takes.

#54 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-07 12:53 PM | Reply

Non citizens are a comparative drain on the safety net and have a higher uninsured rate. I don't know why you are trying to obfuscate that.

#55 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-07 01:02 PM | Reply

"Non citizens are a comparative drain on the safety net"

You don't know that. Pluses weren't counted for either side.

Citizens pay into SS and get benefits. Non-citizens pay in and DON'T get benefits. Where is that part of the equation? Oh, right...the authors don't want you to have that part, because it screws up their narrative.

And you gleefully chomp up their manure.

#56 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-07 01:06 PM | Reply

"Non citizens are a comparative drain on the safety net and have a higher uninsured rate."

Hey JeffJ.

You actually have to look at utilization ti substantiate your "drain" comment.

You haven't done that.

You also can't really call someone a "drain" without looking at how much they put back in.

You haven't done that either.

#57 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-07 01:11 PM | Reply

When both the minuses AND the plusses are counted:

www.vox.com

www.azcentral.com

psmag.com

www.nytimes.com

#58 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-07 01:16 PM | Reply

"You also can't really call someone a "drain" without looking at how much they put back in. You haven't done that either."

Don't you get it? In JeffWorld, the US is running a $3.4 Trillion annual surplus...

...as long as you don't count any expenditures.

See how easy Republican Math™ can be???

#59 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-07 01:18 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

So much for talking about micro-generation and energy sovereignty.

#60 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-07 01:20 PM | Reply

"So much for talking about micro-generation and energy sovereignty."

Well, I asked for math from two posters, and neither of them can seem to produce any....

#61 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-07 01:22 PM | Reply

Currently living in Louisiana in a house surrounded by oak trees [60+ Ft tall]. Solar panels would not be an option is such a situation. Great where one can use them. Also in mid 80s lived in central NY where, due to lake effect weather [off Erie] only about 163 sunny days per year - again, Calif would be great for such a program, some states, not so much.

#62 | Posted by MSgt at 2018-12-07 01:25 PM | Reply

"Don't you get it? In JeffWorld, the US is running a $3.4 Trillion annual surplus...
...as long as you don't count any expenditures."

We also don't have a gun violence problem if you don't count young black men.

That's how much these (con)Federalists have progessed. Blacks have gone from 3/5 a person to zero.

#63 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-07 01:38 PM | Reply

#62 Are the trees going through your house and covering your roof? You're further south than California, the sun should be more directly above the ground. I'm sure you'd have no problem.

#64 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2018-12-07 01:38 PM | Reply

There are maps which show you how much solar energy you can expect to produce.

We could power the whole country with a corner of Arizona.

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-07 01:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#64 | POSTED BY INDIANAJONES AT 2018-12-07 01:38 PM | FLAG: Trees are both east and west to shade house from sun in both morning and afternoon in this very hot climate. They save a lot in air-conditioning costs so that is a big plus as sun only hits the house about three hours a day.

#66 | Posted by MSgt at 2018-12-07 02:29 PM | Reply

We could power the whole country with a corner of Arizona.

#65 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2018-12-07 01:43 PM | REPLY |

We could power most of the US on solar by using just 2/3 of the land consumed by corn ethanol crops.

#67 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-07 02:47 PM | Reply

I said comparative drain.

Reading, folks. Try it.

#68 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-07 03:17 PM | Reply

"I said comparative drain."

Without a shred of proof to back it up.

The authors counted all the minuses they could muster, and ignored any and all the plusses. Much like you're still doing.

Math, folks. Try it.

#69 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-07 03:20 PM | Reply

Failing that, one could look at the four links I provided, each of them drawing conclusions after counting the minuses AND the plusses.

#70 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-07 03:22 PM | Reply

You looked at ONLY the pluses of non-citizens. You didn't perform the comparison of pluses of non-citizens vs pluses of citizens which is particularly strange given the embedded piece was comparing the welfare-state usage and uninsured rates of non-citizens vs citizens.

#71 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-07 03:48 PM | Reply

"You looked at ONLY the pluses of non-citizens. "

Which proved the author's bottom line is manure.

"You didn't perform the comparison of pluses of non-citizens vs pluses of citizens"

I only know data from non-citizens. I disproved the author's conclusion. If you want to continue with data from citizens, bring it.

"which is particularly strange given the embedded piece was comparing the welfare-state usage and uninsured rates of non-citizens vs citizens."

And purposefully omitting the rest of the equation, so they could draw their conclusion: Immigration Bad.

#72 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-07 04:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"We could power most of the US on solar by using just 2/3 of the land consumed by corn ethanol crops."

That's even better than the Arizona thing. Farmland has already been raped and toxified with chemical fertilizer and pesticides, and there's plenty of access roads to bring the panels in.

But since this is shaping up to be America's Lost Century, let's just stick with ethanol.

#73 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-07 04:19 PM | Reply

It's like saying your top performing salesman also submits the most expense reports, so he's the biggest drain on company funds.

#74 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-07 04:22 PM | Reply

"I said comparative drain."

The first and last sentences disprove your claim. They lay out EXACTLY what this article is about.

First words:
Immigration Reform: Just how much do non-U. S. citizens cost the rest of the country? Plenty, if you believe census data looking at welfare and the uninsured in America.

If something costs $1, and you get a rebate of $1.25, how much did it "cost" you?

Last words:
The U.S. is a wealthy and generous nation. Even so, there's an important question that needs an answer. Is it fair for hardworking Americans to pay billions of dollars in benefits to those who aren't U.S. citizens, or worse, are here illegally?

And in between, not a single keystroke about ANY plusses.

#75 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-07 04:24 PM | Reply

"The U.S. is a wealthy and generous nation. Even so, there's an important question that needs an answer. Is it fair for hardworking Americans to pay billions of dollars in benefits to those who aren't U.S. citizens, or worse, are here illegally?"

It's not fair to make hardworking Americans pay.

We should pay by increasing capital gains taxes.

Make our hardworking capital pay for it.

#76 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-07 04:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"to those who aren't U.S. citizens, or worse, are here illegally?"

So this is attacking ALL immigration, even the ~30 million legal immigrants.

#77 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-07 04:37 PM | Reply

"People should leave Melania alone!"

#78 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-07 04:39 PM | Reply

Non citizens are a comparative drain on the safety net

And Eugene is the number 1 Northwestern city that isn't Seattle or Portland.

#79 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-07 05:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

That's even better than the Arizona thing.

#73 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2018-12-07 04:19 PM | REPLY

We don't even need to convert farmland. At the rate California burns down, all of the homes will have panel setups with this mandate.

#80 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-07 05:31 PM | Reply

Hey Jeff,

Can you explain to me what you're really worried about?

You're worried about our tax dollars?

Then how can you vote for republicans who time and again waste our tax revenue, give tax cuts to the rich, pay other nations for their "friendship", spend our taxes on oil wars, give it to corporations as subsidies, etc etc etc...

So, again, I ask, whats really bothering you about immigrants.

#81 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-07 05:34 PM | Reply

oh no!!!

solar power!!

why did we ever move away from oil powered electricity!!

#82 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-07 05:35 PM | Reply

It's still oil based electricity. You can't build a panel without it.

#83 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-07 05:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

why did we ever move away from oil powered electricity!!
#82 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

It's still oil based electricity.
#83 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

Well, those goal posts were moved in a hurry.

#84 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-07 05:55 PM | Reply

It is what it is. Figure out how to make panels, turbines, electrical infrastructure without oil and you'll be the most important person on the planet.

#85 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-07 05:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Sitzkrieg, how much oil gets manufactured and how much is fuel?

#86 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-07 06:17 PM | Reply

Ask me again if we massively ramp up PV production in the most polluting country on the planet.

I know where the turbines that power my home came from, about 10 minutes down the road.

#87 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-07 06:28 PM | Reply

How much oil gets burned for fuel and how much oil gets used in manufacturing?

#88 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-07 06:36 PM | Reply

Almost all of it.

#89 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-07 06:38 PM | Reply

So what point do you think you're making when you say you need oil to manufacture things?

#90 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-07 06:39 PM | Reply

It seems ~82% goes for fuel

42 gallon barrel

19-20 gallons gasoline
12 gallons diesel
4 gallons jet fuel

The rest for petroleum products.

www.eia.gov

#91 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-07 06:43 PM | Reply

Heavy-handed but smart.

#92 | Posted by fresno500 at 2018-12-07 07:09 PM | Reply

Figure out how to make panels, turbines, electrical infrastructure without oil

The point. Which you're purposely ignoring is. It takes less oil to manufacture something than it does to create electricity with it.

and you'll be the most important person on the planet.

We can't all be Nullifidian.

#93 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-07 07:23 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

--The point. Which you're purposely ignoring is...

...is that it takes fossil fuels at every point in the panel's lifecycle, from mining raw materials to final disposal, not to mention all the toxic waste generated along the way.

#94 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-07 07:29 PM | Reply

It's still oil based electricity. You can't build a panel without it.

#83 | Posted by sitzkrieg

are you sure?

PVs do not require any oil for any of its component parts. Very little oil is used to producing electricity anymore.

In addition a PV breeder plant can produce it's own electricity to produce panels.

#95 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-12-07 07:30 PM | Reply

"...is that it takes fossil fuels at every point in the panel's lifecycle"

What fossil fuels does it take when it's sitting on your roof for 20 years, Nullifidian?

#96 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-07 07:32 PM | Reply

are you sure?
PVs do not require any oil for any of its component parts.

#95 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY AT 2018-12-07 07:30 PM | FLAG:

The only company to make PVs without petroleum products was a company in California that went out of business.

#97 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-08 02:08 PM | Reply

If you want a Green Economy, buy a bicycle and use it.

#98 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-08 02:09 PM | Reply

If you want a Green Economy, buy a bicycle and use it

Bike tires need oil to produce. Bike chain needs to be oiled. As well as the break levers.

Only way to true be green is to use a horse.

#99 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-08 03:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Too much methane. It's worse than co2. Back to walking, like the natives.

#100 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-08 03:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Back to walking, like the natives.

It's what Mother Nature intended.

#101 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-08 03:25 PM | Reply

It's what Mother Nature intended.

POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2018-12-08 03:25 PM | REPLY

Speak for yourself. Mother Nature gave us cars to drive in.

#102 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-12-08 03:35 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"If you want a Green Economy, buy a bicycle and use it."

BRB. Putting bicycles on the roof to power the home. I hope the landlord understands.

#103 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-08 03:55 PM | Reply

BRB. Putting bicycles on the roof to power the home. I hope the landlord understands.

#103 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2018-12-08 03:55 PM | REPLY

You'll look silly on your roof. Put it next to your xbox.

#104 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-08 04:05 PM | Reply

PG&E and all the other utilities don't like implications of this move.

#105 | Posted by bayviking at 2018-12-08 08:34 PM | Reply

PG&E and all the other utilities don't like implications of this move.

#105 | POSTED BY BAYVIKING

Absolutely!!

When you install solar with a net-zero contract you basically are locking in your electricity costs for 20 years.

If the people get angry enough after rates rise dramatically to pay for the Destruction of Paradise, CA will make PG&E pay me for ALL energy I make at the going rate. Which is BETTER than net-zero. Which means I could start actually making money from my system someday.

#106 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-12-08 10:36 PM | Reply

GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! More states should do the same.

#6 | Posted by LauraMohr

The main reason we have the Electoral College..

#107 | Posted by boaz at 2018-12-09 12:20 PM | Reply

"Just what the poor need"

poor people don't get new houses idiot.

#108 | Posted by Tor at 2018-12-09 02:54 PM | Reply

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