Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, December 06, 2018

Immigration Reform: Just how much do non-U. S. citizens cost the rest of the country? Plenty, if you believe census data looking at welfare and the uninsured in America. Those data show that noncitizens are almost twice as likely to get welfare benefits, and more than three times as likely to be uninsured.

Recently, the Center for Immigration Studies poured through Census poverty and welfare data and found that a shockingly high percentage of noncitizens are getting some sort of welfare benefit from the federal government

More

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

These census numbers caught me by surprise.

#1 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-06 09:50 AM | Reply

"Plenty, if you believe census data looking at welfare and the uninsured in America"

IOW, we're going to take all the minuses, and ignore any and all plusses, and pretend that's the full equation. aka Republican Math™

FTW:
RCIS is a "think tank "that favors far lower immigration numbers and produces research to further those views.""

Meanwhile, when ALL the math is used:
www.thenation.com

#2 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-06 09:58 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

STS incoming in 3,2,1...

#3 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-06 09:58 AM | Reply

"STS incoming i"

More like slaughter the guy with the calculator.

Read the farkin' article, then read my link. The authors, a group trying to trash immigration at every turn, decided to analyze the problem by only looking at one side of the equation.

But I'll ask directly: do YOU believe this article shows the entire picture, or just enough to draw the conclusion it wants?

Let's see if you can be honest, or if you're just an illiterate serial flagger.

#4 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-06 10:06 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

lol. Corky Jr. is so predictable.

#5 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-06 10:09 AM | Reply

"Corky Jr. is so predictable."

IOW, you can't directly rebut the facts I laid out, so you STS.

Speaking of predictable....

#6 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-06 10:13 AM | Reply


Immigrants use little health care, subsidize care of non-immigrants: study
medicalxpress.com

...

A study published today in the International Journal of Health Services finds that immigrants use far less health care than non-immigrants, and may actually subsidize the care of U.S. citizens. The findings by researchers at Harvard Medical School and Tufts University School of Medicine contradict recent claims by Pres. Trump and other political leaders that immigrants drive up U.S. medical costs.

Researchers examined all studies published since 2000 related to health care expenditures by immigrants. Compared to U.S.-born individuals, immigrants were found to have lower rates of utilization and lower per capita expenditures from private and public insurance sources; health expenditures were particularly low for undocumented immigrants. Across all age groups, immigrants' utilization was only one-half to two-thirds as high as that of the U.S.-born population. Immigrants also made larger out-of-pocket health care payments compared to those born in the U.S.

Researchers concluded that as a group, immigrants effectively subsidized private insurance and some public insurance programs such as Medicare because they constitute a low-risk pool that pays more into the system (by way of premiums and tax contributions) than is paid out for their care....


#7 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-12-06 10:15 AM | Reply

#2 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

What area of the country do you live, I cannot recall paying attention if you said? I ask because the article you posted above is super squishy, love the immigrants, lets not count their unpaid ER visits or their welfare because 'they raise children that may become productive citizens'. I grew up in central California, and would welcome you to go work in a welfare office, or just sit for a day in the lobby, in one of those small ag towns in the middle of the state. Illegal immigrants are a drain on social services, and California's already terrible budget. They work for cash under the table, their US citizen children (born one after the other) qualify for everything until they turn 18. Cash, food stamps, medical, WIC, section 8 housing, all of it. I have the experience of dealing with these cases. If a US citizen parent is on welfare and has another child said child is not legally allowed to be added to the claim and NO additional benefits will be provided. However, illegal immigrant parents are not on the claim and therefore every child they produce can be added. It is a loophole California has not corrected.

I actually know some of the Asian ladies that do manicures in the last town I live in before I left Cali who told me they can use their state Medical card to get massages (to be honest I didnt ask how that works but took them at their word). One admitted she doesnt have to claim her nail earnings when customers pay her cash, that is why it is her preferred payment and she actually charges you a fee to use your card. These are ladies I know well and wouldnt question their honesty.

I know that many of the illegal immigrants are good people aside from the fact that they are here illegally. I know they dont want to live in the shadows of society. I can both like the people, and still be against what they are doing. But I will not pretend they are not a drain on government resources when I know that to be wrong. Our country would benefit from easier immigration laws and allowing the ones already here to work with a tax ID number instead of forcing them to hide and take cash.

#8 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2018-12-06 10:20 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

#7

But, but, but...

What if you only counted the expenses?!? That would make the conclusion different, right???

#9 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-06 10:21 AM | Reply

"What area of the country do you live"

One where calculators work, and where the full equation includes both the minuses AND the plusses.

#10 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-06 10:23 AM | Reply

"One admitted she doesnt have to claim her nail earnings when customers pay her cash, that is why it is her preferred payment and she actually charges you a fee to use your card."

And did you turn them in to the IRS, or are you content with paying their slice of the tax pie?

"These are ladies I know well and wouldnt question their honesty."

I just spit coffee all over my irony meter.

#11 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-06 10:24 AM | Reply

One where calculators work, and where the full equation includes both the minuses AND the plusses.

#10 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Do we take into account the plusses of citizens too?

It would be very interesting to measure the plusses and minuses of citizens vs non-citizens.

#12 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-06 10:28 AM | Reply

#10 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Your article also tried to call it a tax to pay these workers less. That leaves money in the hands of the employer which is not a tax. Taxes go the governments above the employer (local, state, federal) to pay for the services illegal immigrants use. Paying a worker less and not claiming it does nothing to pay for services. To be fair there are citizens that also take advantage of employers willing to pay cash in order to get services they would not otherwise qualify for.

#13 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2018-12-06 10:28 AM | Reply | Funny: 1


@#9 ... But, but, but...

What if you only counted the expenses?!? That would make the conclusion different, right??? ...

I remember a thread a few days or so ago about gun violence.

The cited article for the thread breathlessly declared that ~all the other articles were lying~ about gun violence because the author's chart showed no correlation between gun murder rates and gun ownership rates.

What I noticed was that the author of the article either knowingly or unknowingly was comparing apples to oranges. The author was using incomplete FBI stats on gun murders while most of the media articles I've read talk about gun deaths.

After reading the article I was left with the opinion that the author started with a premise and went out to find data that supported what he wanted to support, no matter how incomplete the dataset.


#14 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-12-06 10:30 AM | Reply

"Do we take into account the plusses of citizens too? "

Are those goalposts hard to move that far, that fast?

We're talking about YOUR THREAD SUBJECT.

#15 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-06 10:31 AM | Reply

"Paying a worker less and not claiming it does nothing to pay for services."

Bullshirt. Paying a worker less and not claiming it creates a larger profit, for which the owner pays all taxes due.

"To be fair there are citizens that also take advantage of employers willing to pay cash in order to get services they would not otherwise qualify for."

And it will continue, until we start frog-marching hirers.

#16 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-06 10:31 AM | Reply

I just spit coffee all over my irony meter.

#11 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

These are ladies I had known for many years and trust. It is not ironic that someone would be completely open and honest with a friend, yet shady with the government.

Not that it is any of your business, but I did in fact send in anonymous information. For all appearances it doesn't seem anything was done about it.

#17 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2018-12-06 10:33 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"But I will not pretend they are not a drain on government resources when I know that to be wrong."

Sure they're a drain...when you're only including items that count as "drain". Do the ENTIRE equation, and the result is much different.

#18 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-06 10:33 AM | Reply

"It is not ironic that someone would be completely open and honest with a friend, yet shady with the government. "

It's ironic you would claim someone as a beacon of honesty while admitting they want YOU to pay their taxes for them.

#19 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-06 10:36 AM | Reply

E-verify should be a requirement, employers should be held responsible, and a better process for legalizing immigrants should be worked out.

#20 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2018-12-06 10:39 AM | Reply

"E-verify should be a requirement, employers should be held responsible, and a better process for legalizing immigrants should be worked out."

Agreed, agreed, and agreed, in that order.

#21 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-06 10:40 AM | Reply


@#20 ... E-verify should be a requirement, employers should be held responsible, and a better process for legalizing immigrants should be worked out. ...

Worth repeating, boldly...

E-verify should be a requirement, employers should be held responsible, and a better process for legalizing immigrants should be worked out.

#22 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-12-06 10:44 AM | Reply

"If a US citizen parent is on welfare and has another child said child is not legally allowed to be added to the claim and NO additional benefits will be provided. However, illegal immigrant parents are not on the claim and therefore every child they produce can be added. It is a loophole California has not corrected."

I wonder why CA doesn't correct the loophole. I also wonder if other states have that same loophole.

#23 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-12-06 10:46 AM | Reply

"Do we take into account the plusses of citizens too? "
Are those goalposts hard to move that far, that fast?
We're talking about YOUR THREAD SUBJECT.

#15 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

If you read the article, the thread subject compares non-citizens vs citizens welfare receipts and the rolls of the uninsured.

You moved the goalposts by trying to throw in the pluses. If you are going to add that in for non-citizens (by moving the goalposts) then you need to do it for citizens as well.

#24 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-06 10:46 AM | Reply

"To be fair there are citizens that also take advantage of employers willing to pay cash in order to get services they would not otherwise qualify for."
And it will continue, until we start frog-marching hirers.

#16 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Take employment opportunities away and the only reason reason non-residents have to be here is to milk the welfare state. Essentially, eliminate the pluses.

#25 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-06 10:48 AM | Reply

"You moved the goalposts by trying to throw in the pluses.'

Oh, FFS, thanks for the YUUUUUGE laugh. I "moved the goalposts" by pointing out the picture wasn't complete?!? The authors hate immigration, and are dedicated to churning out crap that paints an incomplete picture, just trolling for math illiterates to glom on to the conclusion and forward their biased crap. Lucky for them, they've got you.

"If you are going to add that in for non-citizens (by moving the goalposts) then you need to do it for citizens as well."

Read your headline for the topic.

#26 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-06 10:49 AM | Reply

"Take employment opportunities away and the only reason reason non-residents have to be here is to milk the welfare state. "

Which is no reason to be here.

I guess we've both located the problem.

So let's take Kansas: authorities know where illegals live (SE and SW areas) and know where they work (packing plants). Why no arrests or frog-marches in those Republican controlled counties?

#27 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-06 10:52 AM | Reply


@#27 ... Why no arrests or frog-marches in those Republican controlled counties? ...

Because the economy in those areas is based upon the illegal immigrants.

That is a large part of the problem that needs to be solved, our economy is based upon the presence of illegal immigrants.

#28 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-12-06 10:55 AM | Reply

"Because the economy in those areas is based upon the illegal immigrants."

Then we as a country need to admit as much, and deal with it humanely.

#29 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-06 11:00 AM | Reply

"If you are going to add that in for non-citizens (by moving the goalposts) then you need to do it for citizens as well."
Read your headline for the topic.

#26 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

The headline only allows a max of 60 characters. The embedded piece makes the comparison between citizens and non-citizens.

You moved the goalposts by adding pluses of non-citizens and then accuse me of moving the goalposts when I ask you to apply that metric to citizens as a means of comparison.

The logic I'm employing is wholly consistent whereas you want to cherry-pick.

#30 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-06 11:04 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

--Because the economy in those areas is based upon the illegal immigrants.

Welcome to California, the Democrat state that rolls out the red carpet for illegal job-seekers. The cheap-labor lobby has already made it a sanctuary state, and the next thing on the agenda is free healthcare.

#31 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-06 11:04 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Why no arrests or frog-marches in those Republican controlled counties?

#27 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Why Kansas? Why not look at California?

#32 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-06 11:05 AM | Reply

IOW, we're going to take all the minuses, and ignore any and all plusses, and pretend that's the full equation. aka Republican Math™ ~Danforth
Sure they're a drain...when you're only including items that count as "drain". Do the ENTIRE equation, and the result is much different. ~ Danforth

Well start enumerating the pluses instead of spitting in your coffee.... you spent 4-5 posts arguing there are pluses, .... well ??

Basic rule of thumb, if the job doesn't need certification/qualifications you will find a high density of illegal immigrants doing it for cash, stealing jobs and tax dollars from the American public.

Illegal Immigration drives up the price of resources for citizens, like food, housing, education, traffic, crime.

Illegal Immigration drives down wages for unskilled labor, landscaping, roofing, where ever no certification is needed there is illegal immigrants taking jobs and lower wages on American Citizens, hurting the African American community the most. Sure they MAY pay some taxes, but not as much if an American Citizen was doing that job, as the wages would be greater.

Illegal Immigrants do not spend all the money earned in the poor neighborhoods where they live but sending back to where they came from to help their families. Draining the local poor economy of needed dollars.

$28Billion dollars lost from local poor economies due to remittances.
mexiconewsdaily.com

So please, pretty please, with a cherry on top, enumerate a plus that helps citizens at large?

Back to you Lamplighter, I like how your "study" focuses on immigrants, and not illegal immigrants, though there is a sentence ...
Its not the issue that the use LESS, its that they use it at all, it drives up costs as its a fixed resource.....

How American Citizens Finance $18.5 Billion In Health Care For Unauthorized Immigrants
www.forbes.com

Here we argue that Americans should pick up the tab .... its coming people ..

Another cause of doctor burnout: Being forced to give immigrants unequal care
www.nbcnews.com

OpenBorders and Healtcare don't mix, hell even in Canada if you are an illegal immigrant/visitor and can't pay you can get the hell out.
immigration.findlaw.ca

This is how Canada treats illegal immigrants and healthcare

Pay up front people....

At the emergency department Aisha was told she had to pay $350 before they would provide care. She was told her situation was not an emergency. Not having the money, Aisha explained that her sickle cell crisis would soon leave her unconscious. It had before. Emergency department admitting staff told her that if she became unconscious, they would treat her without demanding payment first. Aisha seated herself near the triage station and waited. When she collapsed, she was taken in. After 3 days in hospital she received a bill for more than $5000.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

#33 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2018-12-06 11:12 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I see a lot of claims every time illegal immigration comes up that these people spend their money locally and pay taxes on the things they purchase/rent/etc. Yet nobody will touch the fact that a significant portion of the cash they are paid is sent home to wherever they moved here from. They receive food and housing assistance so they dont need large amounts of money. Even the single men that come from Mexico tend to co-habit so they can send as much home as possible. I dont see much of this here in Idaho, but it was rampant in California. My neighbors at an apartment complex that we lived in for a few years early in our marriage were 5 Mexican men living in a 2 br townhouse and spoke little english. Two were constant and they were quiet and friendly neighbors, the other 2-3 guys in the apartment changed every few months.

#34 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2018-12-06 11:13 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1


@#31 ... Welcome to California, the Democrat state that rolls out the red carpet for illegal job-seekers. ...

It is not just California, or the Democratic states. It is everywhere.

It is a national problem, as much as you may want to pin it on Democrats or blue states.

It is a national problem.

Unfortunately, the first step to resolving the problem is determining the actual problem to be resolved. All the tribal finger-pointing is doing little to solve the problem, and a lot to further divide us.

#35 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-12-06 11:14 AM | Reply

Lamp,

Nulli brought up California because that is where he lives.

Danforth brought up Kansas so he could bash Republicans.

#36 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-06 11:22 AM | Reply

--It is a national problem, as much as you may want to pin it on Democrats or blue states.

Cali is the only sanctuary state in the country, so far. You're not going to see any enforcement or "frog marching" from a state that is actively hostile to ICE. Our "woke" Senator, Wokamala Harris, actually compares ICE to the KKK.

#37 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-06 11:22 AM | Reply


@#33 ... Back to you Lamplighter, I like how your "study" focuses on immigrants, and not illegal immigrants, though there is a sentence ...
Its not the issue that the use LESS, its that they use it at all, it drives up costs as its a fixed resource..... ...

The thread title and the cited article focus "non-citizens" not "illegal immigrants."

We can debate all we want. Unless and until there is movement along the lines of what JUSTAGIRL_IDAHO noted in #20, this divisive issue will remain.

#38 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-12-06 11:24 AM | Reply

When employers face arrest and jail for hiring illegal aliens I will consider the arguments against illegal aliens but til then I can't even hear your arguments. Republican business owners take advantage our our unenforced immigration laws which, if enforced, would put them in jail. Don't enforce our laws against employers then don't expect illegal immigration to be diminished. It's like you can't see the forest for the trees.

#39 | Posted by danni at 2018-12-06 11:25 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The thread title and the cited article focus "non-citizens" not "illegal immigrants."

Yes.

#40 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-06 11:27 AM | Reply

--When employers face arrest and jail for hiring illegal aliens

Let me know when the cheap labor lobby-Dems and CoC Republicans, support mandatory E-verify. The Dems idea of "comprehensive immigration reform" is amnesty, amnesty, and amnesty. And how do you crack down on employers if you abolish ICE, an increasingly popular idea with Democrats?

#41 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-06 11:34 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Employers hire these people, if they didn't they would not be here. Pick your own crops Jeff, replace your own roof. Americans receive services from immigrants every day, quit whining about some of them getting some assistance which is probably used to feed the U.S. citizen children. Because the head of the family may be an immigrant the kids are citizens with the exact same rights as every other U.S. citizen. That is probably the basis for the applications for assistance. Cry me a river. I honestly just don't care, I have more important things to worry about. You have a totally corrupt political system and you're worried about this crap???? Priorities.

#42 | Posted by danni at 2018-12-06 11:38 AM | Reply

replace your own roof.

I had it done two years ago. It was done by a Michigan-based company called Weathergard.

#43 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-06 11:43 AM | Reply

But......but........but... they are so good for our economy.

#44 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-12-06 11:49 AM | Reply

Article is rwing garbage from rwing source. Real studies show that no such thing.

"Founded in 1985 by John Tanton, the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) has gone on to become the go-to think tank for the anti-immigrant movement with its reports and staffers often cited by media and anti-immigrant politicians.

CIS's much-touted tagline is "low immigration, pro-immigrant," but the organization has a decades-long history of circulating racist writers, while also associating with white nationalists.

CIS reports have been widely criticized and debunked by groups such as the Immigration Policy Center and the CATO Institute.

Alex Nowasteh, an Immigration Policy Analyst at CATO said in early 2017, "Oh, I'm convinced that [CIS executive director Mark Krikorian is] wrong about all the facts and issues. They're wrong about the impact of immigrants on the U.S. economy and on U.S. society." "

www.splcenter.org

Benefits of Immigration Outweigh the Costs

www.bushcenter.org

"In other words, the study's findings appear to contradict the long-running narrative that immigrants are taking Americans' jobs and that they're hurting those already here by agreeing to work for lower wages than native-born individuals would find acceptable.

This type of argument has been a staple for GOP nominee Donald Trump, who has advocated for limiting the issuance of H-1B visas for skilled immigrants.

The study, however, also found that skilled immigration is ultimately a net positive for the U.S., as it helps spur technological innovation and broader productivity gains."

www.usnews.com

"a staple for GOP nominee Donald Trump"

And for Little Nulli Trump, too!

#45 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-06 12:18 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

The numbers being cited come from the Census.

#46 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-06 12:21 PM | Reply

#46

And the spin on the numbers is from a rwing hate group.

#47 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-06 12:23 PM | Reply

"I had it done two years ago. It was done by a Michigan-based company called Weathergard."

Michigan is probably somewhat different from Florida, here you can call what you believe to be a very legitimate company but when the crew arrives on site you notice most of them speak zero English and are virtually all Mexicans. Employers are all about profits, if illegals will work cheap that is who they hire and if the government won't arrest the employers and put them in jail, as they used to do before Reagan, that is what they are going to do. As long as they can get away with it they will do it and illegals will continue to seek jobs here.
Hey, eat some fresh picked tomatoes today! Then thank an illegal immigrant.

#48 | Posted by danni at 2018-12-06 12:25 PM | Reply

-- Hey, eat some fresh picked tomatoes today! Then thank an illegal immigrant.

What percentage of illegal job-seekers work in agriculture?

#49 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-06 12:28 PM | Reply

It is so sad...

💔 Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-06 11:34 AM | Reply | Flagged newsworthy by not sheepleschism
💔 Posted by not sheepleschism at 2018-12-06 11:13 AM | Reply | Flagged newsworthy by nullifidian
💔 Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-06 11:04 AM | Reply | Flagged newsworthy by not sheepleschism
💔 Posted by not sheepleschism at 2018-12-06 11:12 AM | Reply | Flagged newsworthy by nullifidian
💔 Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-06 11:04 AM | Reply | Flagged newsworthy by not sheepleschism
💔 Posted by not sheepleschism at 2018-12-06 11:04 AM | Reply | Flagged newsworthy by nullifidian
💔 Posted by not sheepleschism at 2018-12-05 10:10 PM | Reply | Flagged funny by nullifidian
💔 Posted by not sheepleschism at 2018-12-05 10:09 PM | Reply | Flagged newsworthy by nullifidian
💔 Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-05 12:50 PM | Reply | Flagged funny by not sheepleschism

#50 | Posted by Hans at 2018-12-06 12:32 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

#47

The numbers are the numbers.

#51 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-06 12:35 PM | Reply

#51

Oh, BS... you know better than that. You just want your bias confirmed no matter the biased source.

Benjamin Disraeli: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Read the links from the GW Bush Center, for f's sake, and the most recent large US study at the USA Today link.

#52 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-06 12:43 PM | Reply

From the embedded piece:

Recently, the Center for Immigration Studies poured through Census poverty and welfare data

#53 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-06 12:50 PM | Reply

#53

Now you are being purposefully dense... one hopes. Stats are spun every day. In this case, by a right wing hate group whom even sources like Immigration Policy Center and the CATO Institute have called wrong about the facts and the issues.

#54 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-06 12:59 PM | Reply

Corky,

All your sources are doing is slaughter the source.

The numbers are what they are.

#55 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-06 01:08 PM | Reply

#55

So, just thick, not purposefully? Maybe you are just hitting the eggnog early.

Neither of the articles I posted address the biased source in this thread article.

The National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine and the experts they quote from the USA Today link use the same Census and welfare data that the right wing hate group used.

www.nap.edu

What's troubling you is that rwing memes about immigration, welfare, and other safety nets are turning out to be fake news.... and hate news.

#56 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-06 01:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"The embedded piece makes the comparison between citizens and non-citizens. "

And ends with this:
Even so, there's an important question that needs an answer. Is it fair for hardworking Americans to pay billions of dollars in benefits to those who aren't U.S. citizens, or worse, are here illegally?

Translation: When we only count the minuses, the final number is a minus.

"You moved the goalposts by adding pluses of non-citizens"

That's not moving goalposts at all. That's pointing out the part of the picture the authors DON'T want you to look at.

#57 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-06 01:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Recently, the Center for Immigration Studies poured through Census poverty and welfare data"

...And there here only to report the minuses.

In other JeffNews, the US collected $3.4 Trillion in revenues last year, and if you don't count expenditures, we're ending up with a YUUUUUUGE surplus!!!

#58 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-06 01:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"What percentage of illegal job-seekers work in agriculture?"

Oh, so you want to discuss employers who hire them. Do you want them arrested and sent to jail? Be careful here, I'm pretty sure you know some of those employers, just like I do, just like most of us do. Probably the only people who don't are very rich people who pay other people to know people who hire illegals.

#59 | Posted by danni at 2018-12-06 02:37 PM | Reply

"The numbers are what they are.
#55 | POSTED BY JEFFJ"

Yeah.
What they are is garbage.

#60 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-06 02:51 PM | Reply

They're only garbage because they screw up your narrative.

#61 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-06 02:57 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

This issue is never going away. It is intended to keep us divided. Illegal immigrants are still people whether they are breaking our laws or not. We need to require E-Verify for all employers, hold employers accountable when they knowing hire illegals, and provide a better path to citizenship with easier immigration guidelines. We should be tracking Visa stays better as well. No politician seriously works toward a solution because it is a good distraction and brings out voters.

#62 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2018-12-06 03:09 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"They're only garbage because they screw up your narrative.
#61 | POSTED BY JEFFJ"

I suppose you're right.

My narrative is predicated on honesty.

Your linked narrative is predicated on "far lower immigration numbers and produces research to further those views."

#63 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-06 03:17 PM | Reply

"No politician seriously works toward a solution because it is a good distraction and brings out voters.
#62 | POSTED BY JUSTAGIRL_IDAHO"

DREAM Act isn't working towards a solution???

#64 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-06 03:18 PM | Reply

"I see a lot of claims every time illegal immigration comes up that these people spend their money locally and pay taxes on the things they purchase/rent/etc. Yet nobody will touch the fact that a significant portion of the cash they are paid is sent home to wherever they moved here from."

Yeah I know a guy who does that. Here legally. Works under the table. After his bills are paid, he sends a lot of money home to help with raising his daughter. Saves the rest to start his business.

America would be better if he were an American citizen.

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-06 03:24 PM | Reply

- They're only garbage because they screw up your narrative.

GIGO... they are garbage because they are a rwing hate group who publishes fake news and "They're wrong about the impact of immigrants on the U.S. economy and on U.S. society.", even according to libertarian experts.

You seem rather petulant today. Did someone stiff you on your paper route collection?

#66 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-06 03:27 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

America would be better if he were an American citizen.

#65 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

I agree, it is likely he would make more money in a position where he didnt have to be paid cash, which in turn would pay in taxes on his income. I am not against immigration. I am against the system in its current state and the laws being broken.

#67 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2018-12-06 03:45 PM | Reply

Just how much do non-U. S. citizens cost the rest of the country?

Why have so many people entirely forgotten that immigrants made the country?

#68 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar at 2018-12-06 04:27 PM | Reply

"Just how much do non-U. S. citizens cost the rest of the country?"

Isn't it around negative a few billion?

#69 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-06 04:34 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

Why do lefties always want to conflate legal immigration with illegal immigration as if they are 1 in the same?

#70 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-06 04:36 PM | Reply

50 | Posted by Hans

Say something intelligent sometime.

#71 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-12-06 04:38 PM | Reply

"Why do lefties always want to conflate legal immigration with illegal immigration as if they are 1 in the same?"

Read your pathetic headline.
It treats both the same.
Hack much?

#72 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-06 04:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#54 | Posted by Corky You are right cor...... you can't believe one word from the government.

#73 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-12-06 04:40 PM | Reply

#70 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

You're projecting rightwing lunacy again. They don't seem to understand that seeking asylum is legal or that 90% of "illegals" come from overstayed visas; not border-wall vaulters.

#74 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2018-12-06 04:41 PM | Reply

Illegal immigrants are still people whether they are breaking our laws or not.

#62 | Posted by justagirl_idaho

WTF do you mean if they are breaking the law or not?

They are in the country illegaly.

if they are working either they are braking the law by working under the table or they have a stolen identy.

What part of illegal don't you understand?

#75 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-12-06 04:45 PM | Reply

Why have so many people entirely forgotten that immigrants made the country?

#68 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar

WTF does that have to do with illegal immigration?

#76 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-12-06 04:47 PM | Reply

90% of "illegals" come from overstayed visas; not border-wall vaulters.

#74 | POSTED BY INDIANAJONES

Um....

Visa overstays account for ‘half' of all people in the country illegally

www.politifact.com

Read your pathetic headline.
It treats both the same...

#72 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

If said conflation was limited to this thread, you'd have a point.

#77 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-06 04:48 PM | Reply

90% of "illegals" come from overstayed visas; not border-wall vaulters.

#74 | Posted by IndianaJones

That is a damn lie.............

#78 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-12-06 04:49 PM | Reply

90% of 22 million is................... 19.8 million....... I don't think that is the number of overstayed visas.

#79 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-12-06 04:52 PM | Reply

"Read your pathetic headline.
It treats both the same...
#72 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

If said conflation was limited to this thread, you'd have a point.
POSTED BY JEFFJ"

You asked why liberals conflate the two.

I pointed out these racists right wing douches you like also conflate the two.

You don't like the point, but it doesn't change how right I am.

#80 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-06 04:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Why have so many people entirely forgotten that immigrants made the country?

POSTED BY DEREK_WILDSTAR AT 2018-12-06 04:27 PM | REPLY

American is replete with arrogance towards the immigrants that came during times like today. They forget that they too are immigrants and that they owe immigrants of the past for doing the very same thing as these people are doing to say. America is also sadly very racist. We've always have been racist and sadly I don't see that changing anytime soon.

#81 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-12-06 05:13 PM | Reply

#78 | POSTED BY SNIPER

Okay you literalist -------;

"According to Pew, between 4 and 5.5 million foreigners entered the United States with a legal visa, accounting for between 33–50% of the total population."

Either way, seeking asylum is still legal.

#82 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2018-12-06 05:29 PM | Reply

Wait. So legal immigration is also scary?

You xenophobes are ridiculous.

Too bad you don't all have tiny islands to live on. So you don't have to see other humans ever again.

#83 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-06 05:33 PM | Reply

I don't think
#79 | POSTED BY SNIPER

You sure don't. Never have, never will.

You're the perfect Trumpublican.

#84 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-06 05:34 PM | Reply

"Wait. So legal immigration is also scary?"

It's so scary, Trump has banned it from six (or is it seven) Muslim countries.

#85 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-06 05:41 PM | Reply

Must be awful to constantly fear and hate other people because they aren't white. Or aren't an American (born) citizen.

#86 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-06 05:47 PM | Reply

-Why have so many people entirely forgotten that immigrants made the country?

Yes, they did. But how much were immigrants costing this country as they were pouring in?

I think of the movie "Gangs of New York" and I wonder what all of this was costing our government.

we weren't handing out health insurance nor food stamps nor public education. If the current tax paying residents had to pay for that then I suspect things would have been different.

Not that I'm against these folks coming here. I'm just pointing out some distinctions. I'm also for us supporting immigrants to a point.

Immigration is a political wedge issue. It's a fear issue.

#87 | Posted by eberly at 2018-12-06 05:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

-Must be awful to constantly fear and hate other people because they aren't white.

Not really. It's easy. LOL

#88 | Posted by eberly at 2018-12-06 05:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I'll ask mom how much she cost America for all those years she had a green card and worked for banks on Wall Street.

Then I'll ask how much she cost America when she became a United States citizen and started working for the Federal government inside the Beltway.

Any guesses on which cost more?

#89 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-06 05:51 PM | Reply

"-Why have so many people entirely forgotten that immigrants made the country?"

Same reason they forget slaves built this country.

It runs contrary to their narrative that they are all self-made men.

JeffJ to his credit doesn't make that claim about himself.

#90 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-06 05:53 PM | Reply

Not really. It's easy. LOL
#88 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Sadly. You're right.

#91 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-06 05:56 PM | Reply

"-Why have so many people entirely forgotten that immigrants made the country?"

True as there was no welfare they came to work and better their lives. Also they were legal immigrants who came in through the system [Ellis Island, etc.].

#92 | Posted by MSgt at 2018-12-07 12:04 PM | Reply

Comments are closed for this entry.

Home | Breaking News | Comments | User Blogs | Stats | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Privacy | Copyright 2018 World Readable

Drudge Retort