Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, December 06, 2018

Sources close to the president say he has repeatedly shrugged off the national debt, implying that he doesn't have to worry about the money owed to America's creditors -- currently about $21 trillion -- because he won't be around to shoulder the blame when it becomes even more untenable.

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I guess he's more of a mainstream Republican than we thought.

#1 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-05 11:47 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

The most honest thing to ever come out of his mouth.

#2 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-05 12:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

To be fair, every President with the exception of Clinton has done the same, and until someone has the testicular fortitude to figure out how to fix our escalating entitlement spending issues, it will continue to be kicked down the road until it becomes untenable.

#3 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-05 12:07 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

To be fair

"To deflect," you mean.

every President with the exception of Clinton has done the same

Every president said "yeah but i wont be here?" Interesting, i never saw that.

#4 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-05 12:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

Every president said "yeah but i wont be here?" Interesting, i never saw that.
#4 | POSTED BY JOE

No you didn't ever see it, isn't honesty wonderful?

"Yeah, but I won't be here", thought by every politician negotiating with a public sector union.

#5 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2018-12-05 12:16 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

#5 Go back to lying about Beto, it's more entertaining.

#6 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-05 12:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

I Don't Really Care, Do U?

#7 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2018-12-05 12:19 PM | Reply

#3 is a typical RoC post in which he explains how he doesn't support Trump.

Oh no. Never mind.

It's a typical RoC post in which he deflects and utilizes Whataboutisim to try and make Trump's garbage palatable.

#8 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-05 12:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 7

"because he won't be around to shoulder the blame when it becomes even more untenable."

To be fair, this has been GOP economic/[political strategery since Irving Kristol and Starve the Beast in the 1980's.... according to Reagan's own Budget Dirs and just about everyone else involved as quoted here:

"According to supply-side economists, the wealthy would use their tax break to spur investment, and the economy would boom. And if it didn't – well, to Reagan's cadre of small-government conservatives, the resulting red ink could be a win-win.

"We started talking about just cutting taxes and saying, ‘Screw the deficit,'" Bartlett recalls. "We had this idea that if you lowered revenues, the concern about the deficit would be channeled into spending cuts."

It was the birth of what is now known as "Starve the Beast" – a conscious strategy by conservatives to force cuts in federal spending by bankrupting the country.

As conceived by the right-wing intellectual Irving Kristol in 1980, the plan called for Republicans to create a "fiscal problem" by slashing taxes – and then foist the pain of reimposing fiscal discipline onto future Democratic administrations who, in Kristol's words, would be forced to "tidy up afterward."

There was only one problem: The Reagan tax cuts spiked the federal deficit to a dangerous level, even as the country remained mired in a deep recession. Republican leaders in Congress immediately moved to reverse themselves and feed the beast.

"It was not a Democrat who led the effort in 1982 to undo about a third of the Reagan tax cuts," recalls Robert Greenstein, president of the nonpartisan Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. "It was Bob Dole."

Even Reagan embraced the tax hike, Stockman says, "because he believed that, at some point, you have to pay the bills."

www.rollingstone.com

Of course, these days rwingers, the GOP or Trump, have no conscience at all about this strategery,

#9 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-05 12:21 PM | Reply

"Yeah, but I won't be here," the president bluntly said,

He'll be hiding in Brazil or Russia.

#10 | Posted by Zed at 2018-12-05 12:24 PM | Reply

Every president said "yeah but i wont be here?" Interesting, i never saw that.

#4 | POSTED BY JOE AT 2018-12-05 12:11 PM

That's obviously not what I said or meant, your strawman skilz need work, maybe Snoofy can take you as a protege.

#11 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-05 12:25 PM | Reply

The GOP has been a cult since Reagan. As George H.W. Bush is celebrated we should not forget one of his most famous comments, when he called "Reaganomics" "Voodoo" economics. He was, of course, entirely correct and nothing has changed about "Voodoo" economics since then. Republicans have watched our debt increase while they insisted that tax cuts would fix it, that is "Voodoo" and only cult members believe lies like that.

#12 | Posted by danni at 2018-12-05 12:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 6

#12

So true... and then his dopey son GW doubled-down on Starve the Beast with a first; cutting taxes AND going to war at the same time without paying for either except on the American's credit card.

Then Obama was, as planned, criticized for how long it took to clean up that mess, and Trump's GOP came in cut taxes on corps and the wealthy again... and take credit for the raised economy.

One has to admit that other than being cruel and unusual punishment on the avg American taxpayer... and totally unpatriotic, it's a brilliant strategery.

#13 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-05 12:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"To be fair, every President with the exception of Clinton has done the same..." - #3 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-05 12:07 PM

Actually, the trajectory of the annual deficit spending was going down under the previous administration, now it is on the way back up again:


2009 $1,413
2010 $1,294
2011 $1,300
2012 $1,087
2013 $679
2014 $485
2015 $438
2016 $585
2017 $665
2018 $833 (est)
2019 $984 (est)
2020 $987 (est)
2021 $916 (est)

#14 | Posted by Hans at 2018-12-05 12:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 8

"Then Obama was, as planned, criticized for how long it took to clean up that mess, and Trump's GOP came in cut taxes on corps and the wealthy again... and take credit for the raised economy."

And yesterday the stock market fell 850 points and the bond market is getting ready to drive interest rates through the roof. Remember what happened last time that happened?

#15 | Posted by danni at 2018-12-05 12:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 7

That's obviously not what I said or meant

You meant that every president has increased the debt? What a shocking revelation, give this man a gold star.

#16 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-05 12:35 PM | Reply

"To be fair, every President with the exception of Clinton has done the same, and until someone has the testicular fortitude to figure out how to fix our escalating entitlement spending issues, it will continue to be kicked down the road until it becomes untenable.
#3 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER"

"every President with the exception of Clinton"

Oh I get it.

We need another Clinton.

Moment of Clarity award to RightOCenter.

#17 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-05 12:35 PM | Reply | Funny: 6

2009 $1,413
2010 $1,294
2011 $1,300
2012 $1,087
2013 $679
2014 $485
2015 $438
2016 $585
2017 $665

2018 $833 (est)
2019 $984 (est)
2020 $987 (est)
2021 $916 (est)

#14 | POSTED BY HANS

That is truly depressing. I remember a time when the numbers I put in bold would have been seen as catastrophic. That they look comparatively good is truly frightening.

#18 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 12:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

#18 |

What's truly frightening is that even semi-intelligent people look at the facts economically... especially given Trump... and still vote Republican.

Apparently because they are afraid of losing their majority racial position, in many cases, or have been on other issues culturally divided and conquered.

#19 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-05 12:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

#16

Maybe you do need to visit Indy and Dirk's Reading Comprehension Tutor.

Each President (but for Clinton) has shrugged off the growing national debt since the political cost of dealing with it was too great, so they all pushed it down the road to their successor.

Would a chart help you understand it better, or do you get it now?

#20 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-05 12:43 PM | Reply

" I remember a time when the numbers I put in bold would have been seen as catastrophic. That they look comparatively good is truly frightening." - #18 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 12:38 PM

In the 1980 presidential election, Candidate Reagan took President Carter to task for having a $81 billion deficit.

After just two years in office President Reagan's deficit (FY1983) was 3 times as much.

#21 | Posted by Hans at 2018-12-05 12:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 6

Would a chart help you understand it better, or do you get it now?

#20 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

Hans provided numbers in #14. Very depressing.

#22 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 12:45 PM | Reply

#21 | POSTED BY HANS

$81 billion. And that was during an economic downturn when a deficit can be reasonably expected. These days our government runs that much of a deficit in 1 month.

#23 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 12:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Hans provided numbers in #14.

That was very nice of him to help out Joe like that.

#24 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-05 12:57 PM | Reply

I understood your post from the beginning. It's just irrelevant. This is a thread about something Trump said. Deflect to others as you wish; i don't have to care.

#25 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-05 01:13 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

In the 1980 presidential election, Candidate Reagan took President Carter to task for having a $81 billion deficit.

After just two years in office President Reagan's deficit (FY1983) was 3 times as much.
#21 | POSTED BY HANS

^
And thus was born the GOP Faith-Based Economic Fact:

"Reagan proved deficits don't matter."
--Dick Chebey

#26 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-05 01:22 PM | Reply

Each President (but for Clinton) has shrugged off the growing national debt since the political cost of dealing with it was too great, so they all pushed it down the road to their successor.
Would a chart help you understand it better, or do you get it now?
#20 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

I love when Trump supporters take us on a trip through history to excuse Trump's gross statement.

Now remind us of when Truman dropped nukes on Japan and Jefferson and Washington owned slaves.

That really makes a difference on my opinion of Trump.

#27 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-05 01:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

So you wanted it to solely be about Trump's statement and not about the fact that the president "has repeatedly shrugged off the national debt, implying that he doesn't have to worry about the money owed to America's creditors -- currently about $21 trillion -- because he won't be around to shoulder the blame when it becomes even more untenable", which is exactly what I addressed in #3, in that he is not alone in that sentiment.

Got it.

#28 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-05 01:31 PM | Reply

You're right. I won't vote for Barack Obama, George W. Bush, or Ronald Reagan in the 2020 election. Thanks for the valuable input!

#29 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-05 01:39 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

- the valuable input!

That would be a first....

#30 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-05 01:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#29

Now you are once again being a butt hurt douche, but I guess that is to be expected at this point.

#31 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-05 02:05 PM | Reply

Oh, it's pretty clear who the douche is.

It ain't Joe.

#32 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-05 02:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"he won't be around to shoulder the blame when it becomes even more untenable", which is exactly what I addressed in #3, in that he is not alone in that sentiment."

No other President has expressed that sentiment, sad old liar.

#33 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-05 02:08 PM | Reply

#31

No, he is making a very salient point about your logical fallacy of choice; your constant, whiny Whataboutisms.

#34 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-05 02:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

your constant, whiny Whataboutisms

Which is why he got upset when I addressed the very first sentence in his thread post (and quoted it later to buttress my point)?

Riiiight.

#35 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-05 02:13 PM | Reply

Let me summarize:

*I point out that Trump, who is supported by alleged "conservatives," doesnt care about the national debt

*ROC walks in and says "but but other presidents didnt care about it either!"

*I say "ok, i wont vote for those people then"

And somehow i'm a "butt hurt douche." That about right?

#36 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-05 02:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

"Which is why he got upset"

No.

You got upset.

It's approaching tantrum status.

If it weren't for my bleeding heart liberal concern for the food workers that get popcorn lung from the fake butter chemicals in microwave popcorn, I'd be making popcorn right now.

#37 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-05 02:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Popcorn lung?

I can honestly say I've never heard that one before.

I like it.

#38 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 02:31 PM | Reply

That about right?

#36 | POSTED BY JOE

Yep.

:-)

#39 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 02:32 PM | Reply

Nope, not even close.

This might help, apply as directed.

#40 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-05 02:33 PM | Reply

#40

The argument-free lawyer strikes again!

#41 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-05 02:39 PM | Reply

Throws a fit, then calls others butthurt. You're more like Trump than you think.

#42 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-05 02:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Throws a fit

Classic coming from the guy who throws up this strawman:

"Every president said "yeah but i wont be here?" Interesting, i never saw that."

And then when called on it, gets all petulant with this:

"Deflect to others as you wish; i don't have to care."

TFF

#43 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-05 03:26 PM | Reply

emptywheel @emptywheel

The more I think about this national debt story, the more I realize Trump is doing the same on climate change.

#44 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-12-05 03:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

That wasn't a strawman; it was a literal reading of your post, a device typically used as a joke. Glad to help explain the world to you. Any other questions?

#45 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-05 04:08 PM | Reply

"a conscious strategy by conservatives to force cuts in federal spending by bankrupting the country."

Catch that: Republicans' purposeful action was to bankrupt the country.
What could possibly go wrong?

#46 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-05 04:45 PM | Reply

"...typically used as a joke"

Uh huh. You were "joking", not being an angry bitch. Sure, lil joe, sure.

#47 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-12-05 05:51 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Popcorn lung?

I can honestly say I've never heard that one before.

I like it.

#38 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 02:31 PM | Reply

Same thing happens when a person vapes.

#48 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-12-05 07:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The bloated piss chugger will likely attempt to declare bankruptcy yet again.

#49 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2018-12-05 11:25 PM | Reply

In the 1980 presidential election, Candidate Reagan took President Carter to task for having a $81 billion deficit.
After just two years in office President Reagan's deficit (FY1983) was 3 times as much.

#21 | POSTED BY HANS AT 2018-12-05 12:45 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

It's that same ---- the GOP and Dotard have been doing all 8 Obama years. Then they get back in power and blow the deficit through the roofs. I don't blame them. I blame the -------------- ------- that continue to fall for their bullshoot. Those are the people that if brains were dynamite would be unable to blow their nose.

#50 | Posted by 726 at 2018-12-06 07:06 AM | Reply

So, after reading the article, we find that this is just another lie about Trump. LOL!!! Trump never said this nor did anyone else.

#51 | Posted by JordyPete at 2018-12-06 08:48 AM | Reply

This is exactly how the crooks on Wall Street think.

Mint a $21 million coin in Treasury and give it to the Fed. End of that story.

To reduce skyrocketing Federal debt in the future STOP borrowing all money from the private sector. Move the computer that creates dollars from nothing out of the hands of private bankers for ALL Federal projects and return that authority to Treasury.

#52 | Posted by bayviking at 2018-12-06 09:11 AM | Reply

To be fair, every President with the exception of Clinton has done the same, and until someone has the testicular fortitude to figure out how to fix our escalating entitlement spending issues, it will continue to be kicked down the road until it becomes untenable.

#3 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER AT 2018-12-05 12:07 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Obama had us on track to financial stability too.

I would say that a financially responsible voter should vote Dem for the foreseeable future.

That said, if the Bernie folks get too much power, I will revise my argument for Dem fiscal responsibility.

#53 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2018-12-06 09:30 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1


It looks to me as if Pres Trump is trying to enable red-hot economy for the short term (i.e., his term of office) regardless of the longer-term consequences.

That way, he can always say, ~see, look what I did. I had that economy roaring.~

Then when it becomes tome to pay the piper, he'll blame the administrations after his for messing it up.

No one should be surprised he is doing this. It fits right in to his agenda.

#54 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-12-06 09:43 AM | Reply

So according to RoC Dems are 1-1 on the deficit while the Pubs are 4-0.
Yet I wonder which party he votes for.

#55 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2018-12-06 09:57 AM | Reply

and until someone has the testicular fortitude to figure out how to fix our escalating entitlement spending issues, it will continue to be kicked down the road until it becomes untenable.

#3 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

Riiight.. Lets blame the debt on the cost of poor people, while completely ignoring the gifts to the rich in the form of massive Bush/Obama/Trump tax cuts (we should never forget that Obama made the Bush tax cuts permanent), and the out-of-control MIC spending, all paid for on the national credit card.

Until conservatives and recognize that our out of control debt is entirely the fault of more than thirty years of failed supply-side philosophy, this will not be fixed.

#56 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2018-12-06 10:07 AM | Reply

While the Righties are blaming both sides, MATH seems to draw a different conclusion:

Following an announcement Monday from the Treasury that the federal government ran a deficit of $779 billion in Fiscal Year 2018, the Democratic staff on the Senate Budget Committee released a report showing that the federal government would be running a surplus today if not for four Republican policies. Without the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the enormous post-9/11 defense buildup and two rounds of costly, regressive tax cuts, the federal government would be running a $156 billion surplus instead of a $779 billion deficit. The Trump Tax Cuts – which coupled permanent corporate tax cuts with temporary individual tax cuts – added $164 billion to the 2018 deficit. The Bush tax cuts contributed $488 billion to the deficit in FY 2018, the Trump tax cuts added $164 billion, the direct costs of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan ran up $127 billion and base defense increases led to $156 billion in spending.

www.budget.senate.gov

#57 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-06 10:11 AM | Reply

Wow, it would be so easy to be a journalist today, just say "an anonymous source close to xxxx said..." and you have an article that everyone from the other side not only believes, but uses as ammunition. Such an easy job.

"While the Righties are blaming both sides, MATH seems to draw a different conclusion:"

Yet, when research found out that the 2008 bubble was directly caused by Clinton's deregulation, Dems refused to believe it. The issue isn't that the research is wrong, it's that both sides ignore the research that is negative towards them. The other part about this which is rather hilarious is that the Dems in that research actually try to get people to ignore all of the spending related to ALL policies that are in the deficit. Anyone can pick any number of line items and say these are costing us this much, and if we didn't have them we would be running a surplus. To make it easier for those mathematically challenged, if your monthly bills didn't include the $1000 for mortgage and $300 for car payments, you would be running a surplus of $1300 every month!!! Forget about the money you have to spend on food, insurance, electricity, etc...because for some reason those should be ignored according to the logic used by the research in the article.

I'm not saying the research is wrong, it's just a very good idea to actually think critically about what is being said than to just blindly believe it.

#58 | Posted by humtake at 2018-12-06 11:46 AM | Reply

Yet, when research found out that the 2008 bubble was directly caused by Clinton's deregulation, Dems refused to believe it.
#58 | POSTED BY HUMTAKE

That's because the Research you mention doesn't exist.

Stop lying.

#59 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-12-06 12:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Dear Republicans,

Thank you for screwing the country.

Please never vote again.

#60 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-12-06 12:03 PM | Reply

"Yet, when research found out that the 2008 bubble was directly caused by Clinton's deregulation..." - #58 | Posted by humtake at 2018-12-06 11:46 AM

When all else fails, lie.

#61 | Posted by Hans at 2018-12-06 12:04 PM | Reply

So, after reading the article, we find that this is just another lie about Trump. LOL!!! Trump never said this nor did anyone else.

#51 | POSTED BY JORDYPETE
You lie!
Just because you didn't hear it or read it on Fox News doesn't mean it didn't happen.

#62 | Posted by aborted_monson at 2018-12-06 12:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So, after reading the article, we find that this is just another lie about Trump. LOL!!! Trump never said this nor did anyone else.
#51 | POSTED BY JORDYPETE

Where does the article say its a lie?

What has Trump done to reduce the deficit that he complained was so high before he became president?

Jordy, you make Sniper look smart.

#63 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-12-06 01:49 PM | Reply

So, after reading the article, we find that this is just another lie about Trump.

#51 | POSTED BY JORDYPETE

A stream of -------- just like the real jordan peterson spews.

#64 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2018-12-06 01:56 PM | Reply

Wow, it would be so easy to be a journalist today, just say "an anonymous source close to xxxx said..." and you have an article that everyone from the other side not only believes, but uses as ammunition. Such an easy job.
humatake

you mean like obama is a secret muslim, kenyan, non american citizen? that kind of "jounalism?"

#65 | Posted by cjk85 at 2018-12-06 03:30 PM | Reply

Trump really is an evil old man.

#66 | Posted by Tor at 2018-12-06 07:32 PM | Reply

Same thing happens when a person vapes.
#48 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

Link?

#67 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2018-12-07 03:42 PM | Reply

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