Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, December 03, 2018

Harvard CAPS/Harris Poll: In a hypothetical democratic primary, Joe Biden received a plurality of the vote (25%), following by Bernie Sanders (15%), then Hillary Clinton (13%). (An alternative version of the question, excluding Hillary Clinton as an option, yielded Joe Biden with a 28% plurality, following by Bernie Sanders at 21%). Today, over a third of voters (38%) think that Hillary Clinton will run again in 2020. The surprise of the 2020 Democratic horserace is Beto O'Rourke, who appears fourth with 9%, ahead of democratic mainstays Elizabeth Warren (4%), Cory Booker (3%), and Kamala Harris (2%), among others. President Trump is a clear favorite in the hypothetical GOP primary with 44%, well above second place Mitt Romney at 6%.

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I'd vote for him.

But half the democratic base won't vote for anyone with white skin and male sex organs. You can have one or the other, but not both.

After feeling so good about electing the first black president, they're never going back to white guys, even if it means they'll lose every election.

#1 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-12-03 08:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1


Mr O'Rourke seems to be a rather interesting candidate at the present. He would definitely make 2019 interesting....

#2 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-12-03 09:02 PM | Reply

#1 have you heard of this fellow named Bernie Sanders? I'll let the rest of the posters fill you in here.

#3 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2018-12-03 09:02 PM | Reply

I'll let the rest of the posters fill you in here.

That the old guy that joins the Democratic party for election season and then leaves when it's over?

#4 | Posted by REDIAL at 2018-12-03 09:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

if biden or clinton are even mentioned then the dems deserve to lose again

#5 | Posted by ABlock at 2018-12-03 09:13 PM | Reply

Biden. Clinton.

#6 | Posted by Spork at 2018-12-03 09:13 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

Beto can generate huge turnout and fundraising, the two most important elements of any campaign. He should obviously be viewed as a frontrunner. I'd be happy to vote for him.

I'd say he should be VP, but that almostrisks him upstaging the actual candidate. Most of the other names floated are very boring people and they'd come off even more boring next to Beto.

#7 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-03 09:17 PM | Reply

"That the old guy that joins the Democratic party for election season and then leaves when it's over?"

You must be thinking of some other guy. This one never filled out the paperwork.

#8 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2018-12-03 09:22 PM | Reply

Caution on Beto. We don't know anything about him yet.

#9 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2018-12-03 09:23 PM | Reply


Hopefully the Democrats will learn something from the pushback that Rep Pelosi has been getting in the House from the new generation of Democrats that have walked through the doors.

The Democrats cannot just continue to put up the same tired candidates for reelection.

The electorate has moved on.

#10 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-12-03 09:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

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Hopefully the Democrats will learn something

Don't hold your breath.

The Democrats cannot just continue to put up the same tired candidates for reelection.

They can't? That sounds like a challenge. One I'm sure the DNC will accept.

The electorate has moved on.

Yep. Hopefully one day the DNC will figure that out.

#11 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-03 09:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Robert Francis O'Rourke, "Beto", a Irishman married to a billionaire pretends to be a Latino progressive fighting for the little guy.

I love it!

#12 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2018-12-03 09:29 PM | Reply

You must be thinking of some other guy. This one never filled out the paperwork.

OK.

#13 | Posted by REDIAL at 2018-12-03 09:29 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

@#9 ... Caution on Beto. We don't know anything about him yet. ...

Sen Cruz's campaign looked far and wide and deep, and didn't find anything of substance.

But to your point, yeah, that's why I said 2019 would be interesting.

OK, this song just came to mind... :)
www.youtube.com

#14 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-12-03 09:30 PM | Reply

Caution on Beto. We don't know anything about him yet.
#9 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER

Don't worry yourself.

You can vote for Hillary in 2020.

Third times the charm!!

#15 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-03 09:31 PM | Reply

I love it!

#12 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

Why you lying?

You love the fat orange pile of excrement in the white house.

He gave you the tax cuts you wanted, banned the muslims you're scared of, and demonized Central and South Americans like your drinking buddies do.

Plus he can grab anyone's ----! He said so himself!

#16 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-03 09:33 PM | Reply

a Irishman married to a billionaire pretends to be a Latino progressive fighting for the little guy.

Why not? A German trust fund baby doing the same thing worked.

#17 | Posted by REDIAL at 2018-12-03 09:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Caution on Beto. We don't know anything about him yet.

You think Ted Cruz left any stone unturned? Beto's dirty laundry was aired out extensively and he still almost turned Texas blue. I'm comfortable supporting him at this point.

#18 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-03 09:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#18 Have you heard the story of this woman called Hillary Clinton? Spin can do wonders to trash anyone.

#19 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2018-12-03 09:39 PM | Reply

Have you heard the story of this woman called Hillary Clinton?
#19 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER

Yep. She was destined to fail in the general elections. But, despite all warning, she demanded the nomination, it was her turn! The arrogance of the DNC cost us the 2016 elections and gave us Trump

Her story will be forever remembered.

#20 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-03 09:42 PM | Reply


@#18 ... almost turned Texas blue ...

That phrase just sent chills down the spine of this former Republican.

#21 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-12-03 09:47 PM | Reply

He reminds me too much of John Kerry, but hey, just about anyone is an improvement over drumpf.

#22 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2018-12-03 09:51 PM | Reply


@#19 ... Spin can do wonders to trash anyone. ...

It is not necessarily the spin, but the candidate's reaction to it.

fmr Sec of State just dismissed the email server accusations, instead of admitting she made a mistake and moving on.

I remember one of her "rallies" in a local school gym where she had the prime "mea culpa" opportunity, and she blew it. That was a turning point. Well, that, and when fmr FBI Dir Comey did that late October thing. imo, fmr Sec of State Clinton was a bad candidate, but would be a good President, while Pres Trump was a good candidate and a less than good President.

But I think I'm digressing from the thread's topic, so I'll go away for a bit.... :)

#23 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-12-03 09:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Said it before. Bobby is "The One." When he gets to Iowa and New Hampshire the national press corp will descend like a cloud of locusts. Wokamala and Spartacus will be left in the dust. It'll be impolite to mention that he's an empty suit with little experience. They'll probably start calling him Bobby to make the RFK connection.

#24 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-03 10:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It'll be impolite to mention that he's an empty suit with little experience.

But enough about Trump...

#25 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-03 10:30 PM | Reply

They'll probably start calling him Bobby to make the RFK connection.

He should stick with Beto, its catchy, and he already has Texas in the bag.

#26 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-03 10:31 PM | Reply

They'll probably start calling him Bobby to make the RFK connection.

That was the name that he went by when he rowed crew, was arrested for a DUI and on all his college papers, according to Vox.

But idiots (at least here in LA) think he is some kind of Hispanic hero.

Go figure.

#27 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-03 10:33 PM | Reply

#27 Everyone can be seen as an Hispanic Hero when compared to Canadian, Rafael Edward Cruz.

#28 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2018-12-03 10:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

--was arrested for a DUI

Which of his competitors will be the first to circulate this meme? I'm guessing Harris.
pbs.twimg.com

#29 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-03 10:47 PM | Reply

was arrested for a DUI

That was brought up during the midterms.

Didn't seem to matter.

Whats next?

idiots (at least here in LA) think he is some kind of Hispanic hero.

Well, he hasn't called them criminals and rapists. So. Already much better than Donnie the Orange sack of Excrement.

Keep swinging!

#30 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-03 10:55 PM | Reply

Didn't seem to matter. - Clownshack

Good looks over character ...

#31 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2018-12-03 11:05 PM | Reply

Hm. So they can't say anything about Beto.

Interesting.

#32 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2018-12-03 11:11 PM | Reply

#29

Actually it was first mentioned here by a Nazi Coddling kid cager.

#33 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-03 11:16 PM | Reply

The most qualified Dem is obviously Hillary Clinton... but she's got so much baggage that the GOP paid billions for over the last 30 years that she should prolly stay offa the train.

Beto has a lot more good policy choices and charisma than most, but only Texas House District leadership and City Council experience; had he been able to spend even a short time as a Sen the way Obama did, he'd be a good candidate.

As it is, he'd be a better VP candidate to a left of center Presidential candidate who's not over 70... or nearly 80, and not so far left that they scare the center left.

So, I'm thinking Cadenhead/Beto 2020.

#34 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-03 11:26 PM | Reply


@#34

Who's Cadenhead?

(I jest, of course)

Fun tune, btw...

www.youtube.com

Every time I listen to it, my foot starts a tappin'

#35 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-12-03 11:31 PM | Reply

#35

That's hot stuff.

I've been listening to a sound that originated in the dance halls of the old Weimar Republic... until Hitler figured out this was mostly Jewish musicians and songwriters and banned it.

Max Raabe and the Palast Orchester - Bei Mir Bist Du Schoen *Yiddish for "To Me You are Beautiful"

www.youtube.com

www.youtube.com

#36 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-03 11:43 PM | Reply


@#36 ... Bei Mir Bist Du Schoen *Yiddish for "To Me You are Beautiful" ...

You have the translation correct, but the original language of "Bei Mir Bist Du Schön" is German, not Yiddish. The Yiddish version is, "Bei Mir Bistu Shein." ( en.wikipedia.org )

That aside, the songs are quite good big band renditions. But I have to say that Ms Katie Webster puts a bit more of toe-tapping ~groove~ in her song.

Max Raabe sounds to me more like an Artie Shaw or Glenn Miller than an energetic Katie Webster.

But that's just me. :)

#37 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-12-04 12:43 AM | Reply

Raabe sings it in Yiddish, the youtube video title by someone else is written in German; they sound the same when spoken... or sung. But thanks for the difference-free distinction.

You do understand that pedants are quite boring, don't you?

#38 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-04 12:52 AM | Reply


@#38 ... You do understand that pedants are quite boring, don't you?

Oh yeah. 100% agreement. Many folk do not like to learn new things or be corrected.

Unfortunately, in this area you happen to be conversing with a person who won the New York City Achievement Medal for Excellence in German when he was in high school. (did you notice that I even put an umlaut over the "o" in Schön? Frau Ramras would be proud.)

So, for better or worse, you just happened to have hit a sweet spot for me.

Otherwise, I would have let it pass. :)

#39 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-12-04 01:07 AM | Reply

That singer sucked. Here's a real singer doing I Won't Dance.

www.youtube.com

#40 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-04 01:10 AM | Reply

He reminds me too much of John Kerry, but hey, just about anyone is an improvement over drumpf. POSTED BY INDIANAJONES

Beto is more Brian Williams than John Kerry.

#41 | Posted by Gonoles92 at 2018-12-04 01:17 AM | Reply


@#41

Do you really think that trying to compare Mr O'Rourke to failed persons of the past will be a winning tactic?

It didn't work in Texas. By what I saw it may have even helped him, as it showed the desperation of his opponents to find anything substantially wrong with him.

#42 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-12-04 01:25 AM | Reply

Why not? A German trust fund baby doing the same thing worked.
#17 | POSTED BY REDIAL

Because the Democratic party is based on identity, how can you not understand that.

Do you believe the intersectionals will come out to vote for him?

How about the Africa Americans?

What about the Latinos, that see through his disguise?

Fat chance; live by identity politics, die by the identity politics.

#43 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2018-12-04 01:25 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Because the Democratic party is based on identity, how can you not understand that."

Is there a party that isn't???

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-04 01:28 AM | Reply

Headline could use a bit of tweaking. I wouldn't exactly call that...ahem...accurate.

#45 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-04 01:29 AM | Reply

President Trump is a clear favorite in the hypothetical GOP primary with 44%

Republicans are scum. Brain dead, water headed scum.

#46 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-04 01:29 AM | Reply


@#43 ... Because the Democratic party is based on identity, ...

Oh please. The current Republican Party is all about identity politics. Have you listened to the President lately?

It is almost to the point of outright racism.


live by identity politics, die by the identity politics.

Precious.


#47 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-12-04 01:30 AM | Reply

That the old guy that joins the Democratic party for election season and then leaves when it's over?

#4 | Posted by REDIAL

If you want to be petty and a self-perpetuating loser, sure.

I would say the old guy who has a better feel for the current political winds and, therefore, a better grasp of the lessons that the DNC ignored from Obama's two elections.

But the Dems, being the party of eternal self-victimization, will intentionally lose just to claim victim status from those meany Repubs.

#48 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-04 01:35 AM | Reply


@#47 ... Precious. ...

Or maybe I should say, "priceless..."

www.youtube.com

#49 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-12-04 01:44 AM | Reply

--live by identity politics, die by the identity politics.

"Precious."

Precious indeed. Explains 2016.

Clinton's message:
i.pinimg.com

#50 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-04 01:44 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1


@#50 ... Clinton's message: ...

Spot on.

I don't know who advised fmr Sec of State Clinton to utter the word "deplorables" but wow, just wow.

I cannot believe she ever thought that was good advice. I did not believe my ears when I heard her utter that comment.

Wow.

#51 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-12-04 01:48 AM | Reply

Deplorables was and is an apt description for Trump's supporters. They were never her intended audience.

The problem was the ignoramus middle voters who either didn't vote because they were stupidly apathetic or the middle voters who sided with Trump because they're, well...stupid.

#52 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-04 01:55 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

BTW if you can't see how the term was appropriate by now then I'm sorry to say it but you're rather stupid as well.

#53 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-04 01:56 AM | Reply


@#52 ... Deplorables was and is an apt description for Trump's supporters ...

I disagree. Strongly.

I would never apply such a derogative term to my fellow Americans.

"shockingly bad in quality." just because I disagree with their political opinions?

No, I will not say that. Period. Full stop.


@#53 BTW if you can't see how the term was appropriate by now then I'm sorry to say it but you're rather stupid as well.

You are entitled to your opinion of my intelligence. I suspect you may be surprised, however. :)


#54 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-12-04 02:06 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Spot on.
I don't know who advised fmr Sec of State Clinton to utter the word "deplorables" but wow, just wow.
I cannot believe she ever thought that was good advice. I did not believe my ears when I heard her utter that comment.
Wow.
POSTED BY LAMPLIGHTER AT 2018-12-04 01:48 AM | REPLY

Yeppers it was horrific just like she is. It was her 47% moment. What she failed to realize is those so called deplorables would have been her bosses too had she of won.

#55 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-12-04 02:17 AM | Reply

I would never apply such a derogative term to my fellow Americans.

Then you haven't been paying attention.

Just like every family has a crazy uncle everyone is afraid to talk to, we have 30% of the electorate that shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Some people are too stupid to save. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that.

You are entitled to your opinion of my intelligence. I suspect you may be surprised, however. :)

well, you sniffed and avoided the troll bait so I'm afraid you're likely right.

While admirable, I wonder how you will survive this world, Edmond Dontes.

#56 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-04 02:23 AM | Reply

What she failed to realize is those so called deplorables would have been her bosses too had she of won.

It's unfortunate that after two years of Trump you're still so hung up on your biases that you'd make the same mistake in 2020 that you made in 2016.

#57 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-04 02:25 AM | Reply


@#55 ... What she failed to realize is those so called deplorables would have been her bosses too had she of won. ...

I think that precious few Presidents realize that they have the Honor to live in the People's House for their term of office.


imo, the current one does not. He thinks it is all about him, not the People of this Country.


#58 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-12-04 02:26 AM | Reply


@#58 ... Some people are too stupid to save. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that. ...

Yes, there is.

No fellow American is too [whatever] to save.

#59 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-12-04 02:29 AM | Reply

No fellow American is too [whatever] to save.

#59 | Posted by LampLighter

I admire your optimism.

With those bright eyes and bushy tail, are you around the ripe old age of 23 perhaps? LOL

#60 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-04 02:35 AM | Reply


@#56 ... well, you sniffed and avoided the troll bait so I'm afraid you're likely right. ...

I've been conversing on message boards since the 1970's. Your tactics are nothing new to me. ;)


... While admirable, I wonder how you will survive this world, Edmond Dontes ...

Neither a plan nor a need to get bitter on my part. Thanks for the concern, though.

www.youtube.com

#61 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-12-04 02:38 AM | Reply


@#60 ... No fellow American is too [whatever] to save.

#59 | Posted by LampLighter

I admire your optimism....

It is not optimism, it is a duty.

My Marine friend once told me a story about his unit of Marines who risked their lives to rescue American hostages.

It is a duty.

#62 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-12-04 02:44 AM | Reply

My Marine friend once told me a story about his unit of Marines who risked their lives to rescue American hostages.

It is a duty.

#62 | Posted by LampLighter

The fact that they needed rescuing likely means they were doing something more noble and selfless than our current crop of fat ass, self-absorbed righties.

Most righties are beyond help. Sorry to break it to you.

#63 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-04 03:08 AM | Reply

"I would never apply such a derogative term to my fellow Americans."

Trump would, and his supporters wouldn't think twice about it.
In fact, they'd love him all the better for it.

#64 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-04 03:11 AM | Reply

"Most righties are beyond help. Sorry to break it to you."

At the very best, there are Republicans who simply want lower taxes, end of conversation.
Not exactly a principled position, unless greed is a principle.
At the worst, it's very dark indeed. Children in cams. Closed borders. End immigration. End the global hegemony. Surrender our position of global leadership to Russia, China, Iran, whoever. It's basically a death cult.

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-04 03:17 AM | Reply

It's unfortunate that after two years of Trump you're still so hung up on your biases that you'd make the same mistake in 2020 that you made in 2016.

POSTED BY JPW AT 2018-12-04 02:25 AM | REPLY

I didn't make a mistake. It was a mistake nominating her in the first place. I'll do the same thing in 2020 if the Democratic party nominates her.

#66 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-12-04 04:22 AM | Reply

Beto is the new corporate dem candidate. Everybody is going to love it. Obama 2.0, but white this time.

#67 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-04 06:47 AM | Reply

He doesn't even speak with a Hispanic dialect!

#68 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-04 07:15 AM | Reply

I would never apply such a derogative term to my fellow Americans.

So your "fellow americans" who go to Nazi rallies and run people over with cars and march around with torches doing Hitler salutes aren't to be deplored?

Get real. Just because someone's an american doesn't mean they aren't an abject idiot worthy of scorn.

#69 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-04 07:56 AM | Reply

First sentence was meant to be in quotes.

#70 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-04 07:57 AM | Reply

#66 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

So you'd rather see Trump re-elected than have Hillary. Hillary is not a great candidate, but neither is she the "wicked witch of the west" that the "vast right-wing conspiracy" (see Jerome Coursi) has spent the last 25 years painting her to be. At least, she would be competent. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather she didn't run and I'd like to see a real (and younger) progressive in the WH, but I'd choose her over Trump any day.

#71 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2018-12-04 09:05 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Do you really think that trying to compare Mr O'Rourke to failed persons of the past will be a winning tactic?
Uhh...no? There was a comparison made of O'Rourke to John Kerry, but at least Kerry served his nation in uniform - can't say the same about Beto O'Rourke.

Plus, Brian Williams looks like he could be Beto's dad.

#72 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2018-12-04 10:19 AM | Reply

at least Kerry served his nation in uniform - can't say the same about Beto O'Rourke.

Trump never served our nation and he denigrates our armed forces on a near-daily basis.

You're going to quickly learn that Republicans' traditional objections to opposing candidates no longer carry any weight due to your support for a cretin like Trump.

#73 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-04 10:27 AM | Reply

Dems should nominate Beto for Senate against Cornyn and fellow native Texan Sully Sullenberger for President. That would turn Texas blue.

#74 | Posted by Texhoma at 2018-12-04 10:28 AM | Reply

Y'all realize that O'Rourke got beat buy a guy with all the charisma of a scorpion, a guy that Trump put away in a couple of months. People vote their pocket book.

#75 | Posted by docnjo at 2018-12-04 10:32 AM | Reply

#75 ...in Texas, where historically most people would vote for an imprisoned Republican opossum than a Democrat human.

#76 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-04 10:35 AM | Reply

Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger was born in Denison, Texas (same birthplace as President Eisenhower), graduated from Denison High School and the United States Air Force Academy with honors. He was a Republican for most of his adult life, but joined the Democratic Party in 2012, supporting Obama. A commercial pilot for 30 years, his heroic landing on the Hudson River in 2009 saved at least 155 lives of the passengers and probably many others on the ground. His 10-minute interview on MSNBC two days before the midterm elections is very strong. If Sullenberger were nominated for President (or Vice President) he would turn many counties in rural Texas from red to blue. www.youtube.com

#77 | Posted by Texhoma at 2018-12-04 10:44 AM | Reply

So your "fellow americans" who go to Nazi rallies and run people over with cars and march around with torches doing Hitler salutes aren't to be deplored?
Get real. Just because someone's an american doesn't mean they aren't an abject idiot worthy of scorn.

#69 | POSTED BY JOE

That is a tiny subset of "fellow Americans". To suggest that 30% (as JPW did above) fall into that category is absurd.

#78 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 10:59 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

That is a tiny subset of "fellow Americans". To suggest that 30% (as JPW did above) fall into that category is absurd.

According to the SPLC that subset consists of .09% of the US population...but JPW still thinks that 30% of Americans should be disenfranchised because of his prejudices.

Absurd indeed.

#79 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-04 11:50 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#76 | Posted by JOE Actually back when I was a kid, the voters of Texas were referred to as "Yellow Dog Democrats", due to Sam Rayburn's statement that the Democrat party could run a yellow dog would beat a Republican in any election in Texas. But after enough characters like LBJ, Connolly, and Yarborough and some really venal local politicians, such as the "Duke of Duval" who was probity guilty of killing anyone who would expose his corruption. But that creep gave LBJ his election to the senate via transparent voter fraud. Federal agents did not close down that operation until "Landslide Lyndon" died. There is many reasons that Texas seldom elect Democrats in a state wide elections.Ann Richards was the last Democrat governor.

#80 | Posted by docnjo at 2018-12-04 12:06 PM | Reply

"Sam Rayburn's statement that the Democrat party" - #80 | Posted by docnjo at 2018-12-04 12:06 PM

Liar.

Sam Rayburn never said any such thing.

"transparent voter fraud."

Stuffing ballot boxes is not voter fraud.

#81 | Posted by Hans at 2018-12-04 12:10 PM | Reply

To suggest that 30% (as JPW did above) fall into that category is absurd.

30% of Americans (yourself included) argue, on a daily basis, in support of a president who supports those people via racist dogwhistles. Close enough.

#82 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-04 12:49 PM | Reply

Sam Rayburn never said any such thing,BS. I live less than 20 miles from his home. His own tolerance of corruption, black mail, voter fraud, including paying black voters a dollar or a jug of wine while providing poll tax receipts to them by the truck load,(literally truck loads). He started as a share cropper's son, or so he said, and ended up in a mansion east of Bonham. He ended up with 22,000 in cash assets when he died, (yet his mansion cost 5 times that). Yellow dog democrat was a term he used freely in his "board of education" while he was speaker of the house. My grand parents had some great stories about him, they lived in his district almost their entire life. Two of his protegees became POTUS, Truman and Johnson.

#83 | Posted by docnjo at 2018-12-04 12:51 PM | Reply

"Sam Rayburn never said any such thing," - #83 | Posted by docnjo at 2018-12-04 12:51 PM

That's correct, liar.

Sam Rayburn never said any such thing.

#84 | Posted by Hans at 2018-12-04 12:54 PM | Reply

#1 have you heard of this fellow named Bernie Sanders? I'll let the rest of the posters fill you in here.

#3 | Posted by BruceBanner

Yeah that was the candidate who couldn't win because he was a white man.

Everyone was determined to vote for the first ______ president, even if that candidate was a corporate stooge with a long track record of bad judgement.

#85 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-12-04 01:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#82

LOL, go ahead and show me all of my "support" for Donnie Little Hands and his racist dog whistling...I'll wait.

Obfuscation fallacy incoming in 3, 2, 1...

#86 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-04 01:10 PM | Reply

That the old guy that joins the Democratic party for election season and then leaves when it's over?

#4 | Posted by REDIAL

No the guy who ACTUALLY represents what the democratic party only CLAIMS to represent.

He's more democrat than the democrats, and doesn't want their slime on him.

#87 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-12-04 01:11 PM | Reply

That is a tiny subset of "fellow Americans". To suggest that 30% (as JPW did above) fall into that category is absurd.

#78 | Posted by JeffJ

30% support a nazi sympathizer. Supporting racism is racist. Sorry. You don't get to say "I support trump but not the racism part." You buy the whole hog.

#88 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-12-04 01:14 PM | Reply

#84 | Posted by Hans Prove it liar.

#89 | Posted by docnjo at 2018-12-04 01:20 PM | Reply

"That is a tiny subset of "fellow Americans"

The much larger subset that supports their right to march a priori, without even commenting on the implications of armed Trump supporters marching and chanting Nazi slogans, to protest the removal of a monument to racial slavery. is also deplorable.

That's you, Null, RoC, and pretty much every Trumper and Never Trumper alike.

In other words, probably about half the GOP.

In other words, Clinton was right.

For further insight into how deplorable you personally are as a person, JeffJ, please consult your wife's police report.

#90 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-04 01:23 PM | Reply

#84 | Posted by Hans That term was in common usage for 50 years before Sam ever ran for congress. It refers to a extremely safe Democrat constituency.

#91 | Posted by docnjo at 2018-12-04 01:24 PM | Reply

#84 and 89

You are both (kind of) correct. The 1st, 2nd and 4th Districts of East Texas have been traditionally known as "Yellow Dog Democrat" territory, so Rayburn may have referenced it at some point. However, the phrase "Yellow Dog ________" (it has been used for both Dems and Repubs) has been around since before Lincoln was POTUS.

#92 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-04 01:26 PM | Reply

A bunch of strawmen on this thread. Color me shocked.

#93 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 01:28 PM | Reply

"A commercial pilot for 30 years, his heroic landing on the Hudson River in 2009 saved at least 155 lives of the passengers and probably many others on the ground."

Are you serious?
The man is a remorseless goose murderer!!!
:)

#94 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-04 01:29 PM | Reply

LOL, go ahead and show me all of my "support" for Donnie Little Hands and his racist dog whistling...I'll wait.

I wasn't quoting you or speaking to you. Try reading.

You seem awfully desperate to one-up me...better luck next time.

#95 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-04 01:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

My bad Joe, since I also quoted Jeff's statement and yours appeared right after mine.

I would apologize but you seem to have problems gracefully accepting them.

#96 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-04 01:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I wasn't quoting you or speaking to you. Try reading.

Correct. Instead you were busy falsely assigning a position to me.

You seem awfully desperate to one-up me...better luck next time.

#95 | POSTED BY JOE

The self-irony of that comment is hilarious given the straw man you knocked down in #82.

#97 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 01:35 PM | Reply

"A bunch of strawmen on this thread."

Yeah.

Straw man arguments are a bigger turn-off for you than armed Trump supporters chanting Nazi slogans in support of a racist monument.

That's precisely what makes you so deplorable.

#98 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-04 01:36 PM | Reply

I would apologize but you seem to have problems gracefully accepting them.

#96 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

I was torn between a FF and NW. I gave it a NW.

#99 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 01:36 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

"It refers to a extremely safe Democrat constituency." - #91 | Posted by docnjo at 2018-12-04 01:24 PM

Oh, I know exactly what "Yellow Dog Democrat" means.

But Mr. Sam never used that term in reference to a non-existent "Democrat party" ("...due to Sam Rayburn's statement that the Democrat party could run a yellow dog ...").

If you're going to present yourself as some kind of history buff here, at least get it right.

#100 | Posted by Hans at 2018-12-04 01:36 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

You are a world-class bore.

#101 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 01:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I'd rather be boring than deplorable.

Strange that you don't feel the same.

#102 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-04 01:38 PM | Reply

reference to a non-existent "Democrat party"

Sorry Hans, I wasn't aware that Doc had invoked one of your pet peeves.

#103 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-04 01:39 PM | Reply

Instead you were busy falsely assigning a position to me.

It's not "falsely assigning a position to you" to say that you come here on a daily basis to lap up Trump's excrement. Why even lie about that? Anyone can read your posting history, as excruciating as that might be.

#104 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-04 01:40 PM | Reply

"I wasn't aware that Doc had invoked one of your pet peeves." - #103 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-04 01:39 PM

Faux historians will do that.

#105 | Posted by Hans at 2018-12-04 01:40 PM | Reply

Humpy is anything but boring. That's why they like him. Bout now they are beginning to realize what that really means.

Boring gets the job done. No humpy drama necessary.

Ask Bill Gates how that worked out for him.

#106 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-12-04 01:43 PM | Reply

The man is a remorseless goose murderer!!!
:)
#94

The Canadian Geese apologized right before being sucked into the jet engines.

#107 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2018-12-04 01:43 PM | Reply

"I was torn between a FF and NW. I gave it a NW." - #99 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 01:36 PM | Flag: Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

No need to be torn, JeffJ. :-)

#108 | Posted by Hans at 2018-12-04 01:45 PM | Reply

Speaking of Mr. Sam:

The story goes that right after he was made Majority Leader, LBJ called the Speaker, Sam Rayburn, from his car to Mr. Sam's car. LBJ was impressed that Mr. Sam had one, and now he had a car phone, too. "Hello, Mr. Sam! I'm calling you in your car from my car," exclaimed LBJ.

"Hold on a moment, Lyndon," replied Mr. Sam. "I've got a call coming in on the other line."

#109 | Posted by Hans at 2018-12-04 01:57 PM | Reply

Ditch the shovel, Joe.

#110 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 02:02 PM | Reply

Translation: I got nothin'.

#111 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-04 02:02 PM | Reply

When all you have is straw...

#112 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 02:03 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

Nobody believes that you don't come here and carry water for Trump. What is the point of your denial? Do you actually think this about yourself?

#113 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-04 02:08 PM | Reply

"When all you have is straw..."

Like when you don't have a police report?

#114 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-04 02:12 PM | Reply

"LOL, go ahead and show me all of my "support" for Donnie Little Hands and his racist dog whistling."

Okay. Review your comments in this thread: "Why Migrants Flee Central America" www.drudge.com

#115 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-04 02:16 PM | Reply

Only people who don't know how to read draw that conclusion. I'm surprised you fall into that category.

#116 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 02:21 PM | Reply

"STS incoming in 3, 2, 1...
Nailed it, and not a peep from Dorkus of Naples about the linked USC article that was summarized by the American Thinker.
You just can't make this stuff up.
#17 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER"

and

"I've highlighted the relevant portions of the Summary from page iv of the actual report, and it basically says that the primary motivator for Adults is economic and that crime and violence might be a slight contributing factor.
Sorry if that ruins your narrative.
#30 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER"

That's not supporting Trump on immigration, JeffJ?

Then what is it?

#117 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-04 02:28 PM | Reply

= That singer sucked.

Yeah, all the way to Carnegie Hall, you pompous ass.

Of course, you and Frank share rwing politics, so there's that.

#118 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-04 02:29 PM | Reply

To suggest that 30% (as JPW did above) fall into that category is absurd.

#78 | Posted by JeffJ

I did no such thing.

BTW LOLs for

A bunch of strawmen on this thread. Color me shocked.

#93 | Posted by JeffJ

Do you not even realize you lie compulsively? It's the only way to explain the lack of awareness when you whine about other people's supposed transgressions.

#119 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-04 03:05 PM | Reply

When all you have is straw...

#112 | Posted by JeffJ

LOL

#120 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-04 03:07 PM | Reply

To suggest that 30% (as JPW did above) fall into that category is absurd.

#78 | Posted by JeffJ
---
I did no such thing.

Really? This is what I was responding to:

we have 30% of the electorate that shouldn't be allowed to vote...

#56 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2018-12-04 02:23 AM | REPLY


Perhaps some clarification is in order...

#121 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 03:20 PM | Reply

This added clarity:

The fact that they needed rescuing likely means they were doing something more noble and selfless than our current crop of fat ass, self-absorbed righties.
Most righties are beyond help. Sorry to break it to you.

#63 | POSTED BY JPW

#122 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 03:26 PM | Reply

Perhaps some clarification is in order...

#121 | Posted by JeffJ

I never even remotely said anything about nazis or white supremacists ect.

I was referring to his die hard base who are so self-absorbed and stupid they continue to be the Orange Turd's diehard base.

#123 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-04 03:29 PM | Reply

Let's get back on topic. I'm curious what the non-Trump supporter Trump supporters think about the 2020 election.

Would you vote for a Republican primary challenger to Trump?

Would you vote for Beto O'Rourke over Trump?

#124 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-04 03:30 PM | Reply

Joe, Snoofy and Speaksoftly all doubled down on it. Granted, they don't speak for you.

#125 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 03:30 PM | Reply

#123 | POSTED BY JPW

Thank you for clarifying.

Would you vote for a Republican primary challenger to Trump?

If I liked the challenger and thought he/she had a shot at winning the primary - absolutely.

Would you vote for Beto O'Rourke over Trump?

#124 | POSTED BY JOE

Nope. I'd vote for Jim Webb over Trump, but the Democratic base no longer likes candidates like Webb. Most likely I'd do what I did in '16 - vote 3rd Party.

#126 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 03:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If I liked the challenger and thought he/she had a shot at winning the primary - absolutely.

Did you mean to say "the general?" Or did you actually mean you wouldnt vote for a primary candidate who might not win the primary?

#127 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-04 03:36 PM | Reply

Most likely I'd do what I did in '16 - vote 3rd Party.
#126 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Why? You're no longer a never Trumper.

You're elated with his judiciary nominees. You love Kavanaugh.

You support his tax cuts. Find no fault with most things he does.

You were way more critical of anything Obama.

Seems to me. Trump is your perfect candidate.

Time to come out of the closet and accept it.

#128 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-04 03:37 PM | Reply

Did you mean to say "the general?"

Yes. Sorry for the poor articulation. That's at least twice today.

#129 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 03:48 PM | Reply

You're elated with his judiciary nominees.

True.

You support his tax cuts.

I've come full circle on that. We need to fully fund our government. Taxes need to go up, not down. They need to go up across the board and they'd have to if our government is to fully fund itself. People need to know how much big government truly costs.

Find no fault with most things he does.

He's been a pleasant surprise on policy, tariffs notwithstanding. Although it's mostly phone/pen stuff - undoing the over-reach of the previous administration. On foreign policy he hasn't gotten us into any new altercations and hasn't helped topple any governments either leading from behind or going all-in on war.

Trump is your perfect candidate.

I'm disgusted by who he is as a person and how he demeans the office for purely personal reasons.

#130 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 03:53 PM | Reply

"Taxes need to go up, not down."
~Jeff

"STFU. We're borrowing an additional $2.1 Trillion, and giving 82% away to the world's wealthiest 1%."
~Republicans

"You've got my vote!"
~Jeff

#131 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-04 03:56 PM | Reply

I'm disgusted by who he is as a person and how he demeans the office for purely personal reasons.

I'm sure you can overlook that.

He's the best president ever.

He said so himself.

#132 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-04 04:08 PM | Reply

#131

I'm not a single-issue voter and Democrats aren't serious about the debt and deficits either. Even suggest doing something about the oncoming entitlement disaster and they produce videos of prominent Republicans pushing wheelchair bound grannies off a cliff.

#133 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 04:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I'm not a single-issue voter "

But every stand you seem to take, the current Rs are taking the diametrically opposed position. And your punishment for them is to give them your vote at the next opportunity.

"Even suggest doing something about the oncoming entitlement disaster and they produce videos of prominent Republicans pushing wheelchair bound grannies off a cliff."

That's only because rather than address the shortcomings, they're too busy digging an additional $2.1 Trillion hole. If any and every "fix" didn't center around slashing taxes for the wealthiest, you might have a point.

#134 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-04 04:36 PM | Reply

But every stand you seem to take, the current Rs are taking the diametrically opposed position

I don't agree with all of their policies but I agree with more of them than I do Democrats'.

And your punishment for them is to give them your vote at the next opportunity.

In '16 I voted for Gary Johnson.

#135 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 04:39 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Democrats aren't serious about the debt and deficits either. "

Bill Clinton handed off true surplus budgets as far as the eye could see to Dubya, Cheney, and the Republicans.

Could you remind us what they did? Could you remind yourself?

#136 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-04 04:39 PM | Reply

"In '16 I voted for Gary Johnson."

And what about statewide, for Congress, and for Senate?

#137 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-04 04:40 PM | Reply

And what about statewide, for Congress, and for Senate?

#137 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

A mix of Republicans and Libertarians. I always voted for Carl Levin when he was on the ballot but he retired.

#138 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 04:41 PM | Reply

Bill Clinton handed off true surplus budgets as far as the eye could see to Dubya, Cheney, and the Republicans.

With the help of a Republican House (the House controls the purse-strings).

Could you remind us what they did? Could you remind yourself?

#136 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Those -------- spent with reckless abandon. I almost threw a bottle through my TV screen when Tom Delay declared they had cut all they could cut. It was all couched in 'compassionate conservatism'.

Setting aside Iraq, the left should have loved Bush. Obviously not for the tax cuts and fiscal recklessness but for his top-down approach to education, creation of a new entitlement and his spending overall. Throw in his lax border security.

#139 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 04:45 PM | Reply

"And your punishment for them is to give them your vote at the next opportunity.

In '16 I voted for Gary Johnson."

You had another opportunity to punish them last month, but instead you voted the GOP line, correct?

#140 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-04 04:47 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

You'll find your answer in #138.

#141 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 04:48 PM | Reply

They need to go up across the board and they'd have to if our government is to fully fund itself.

Crazy how when they go down it's primarily for billionaires, but when they go up suddenly everyone has to pay.

No thanks.

#142 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-04 04:49 PM | Reply

The last couple of decades has shown that the greatest degree of fiscal sanity comes when the GOP has the house and a Dem is in the WH.

#143 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 04:50 PM | Reply

"On foreign policy he hasn't gotten us into any new altercations and hasn't helped topple any governments either leading from behind or going all-in on war."

He's helping Russia topple Ukraine, by not-leading from behind.

#144 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-04 04:50 PM | Reply

Crazy how when they go down it's primarily for billionaires, but when they go up suddenly everyone has to pay.
No thanks.

#142 | POSTED BY JOE

In order to fully fund the government everybody is going to have to pay more. Can't get there by soaking the rich alone.

#145 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 04:51 PM | Reply

"The last couple of decades has shown that the greatest degree of fiscal sanity comes when the GOP has the house and a Dem is in the WH.
#143 | POSTED BY JEFFJ"

But you don't vote for Democrats for President.

Because you'd rather not have fiscal sanity, when the chips fall.

Now, it would be refreshing if you could say what you value more than fiscal sanity.

But you can't.

#146 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-04 04:52 PM | Reply

"A mix of Republicans and Libertarians."

Did any of the Republicans you didn't vote for lose? Or was it you voting for "more crazy" to protest "crazy," like your '16 vote?

#147 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-04 04:54 PM | Reply

"Can't get there by soaking the rich alone."

What a joke. The guys you vote for are actively slashing taxes on the rich.

"I almost threw a bottle through my TV screen when Tom Delay declared they had cut all they could cut. "

And then you went out and voted for them again.

#148 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-04 05:04 PM | Reply

"In order to fully fund the government everybody is going to have to pay more. Can't get there by soaking the rich alone."

Not treating capital gains favorably == soaking the rich, in JeffJ's parlance.

#149 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-04 05:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The Republicans just rewrote the tax code, and kept carried interest and GRATs.

At a time of record deficit budgets, they just voted to BORROW an additional 10% of all the debt we've rung up since 1776.

Any pretense Rs are more fiscally responsible is horsecrap.

#150 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-04 05:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Setting aside Iraq, the left should have loved Bush. Obviously not for the tax cuts and fiscal recklessness but for his top-down approach to education, creation of a new entitlement and his spending overall. Throw in his lax border security.
POSTED BY JEFFJ"

His top-down approach to education was not a good top-down approach.

His spending was not good spending.

His MAPD was not a good way to get a Rx benefit into Medicare.

Apparently in your world, any top-down approach is good to Democrats, any spending is good to Democrats, even if it approaches the problem the wrong way.

So I'll end with the $64,000 question:

You've been on this site chock full of Democrats for fifteen years.

Are you ever going to try talking to us???

#151 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-04 05:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

In order to fully fund the government everybody is going to have to pay more. Can't get there by soaking the rich alone.

#145 | Posted by JeffJ

The rich can afford to pay more. WAY more. No one else can.

That would drastically reduce the deficit. But big baby jeff needs TOTAL 100% solutions or they're not worthwhile.

#152 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-12-04 05:14 PM | Reply

In order to fully fund the government everybody is going to have to pay more

You can repeat that all you want; it doesn't make it true. Let's start by reversing every tax cut and loophole created for the rich in the last 20 years that wasn't extended to the middle and lower class in some commensurate fashion, and see where we are at. Deal?

#153 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-04 05:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I must give Jeff credit for sticking it out on threads where he's clearly being pounded on.

I feel like most conservative posters on the DR spew and run.

#154 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-04 05:30 PM | Reply

CLOWN

Negative attention is better than no attention at all. For all we know, that's the story of Jeff's life.

#155 | Posted by Twinpac at 2018-12-04 05:33 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Negative attention is better than no attention at all.

Seems to be RightOCenter's motto.

#156 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-04 05:35 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

--Negative attention is better than no attention at all.

There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about. - Oscar Wilde

#157 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-04 05:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Deal?

#153 | POSTED BY JOE

That would certainly be a good start. It doesn't get us there, but it's a start. Then, after we do that, tax increases on all income brackets.

#158 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 05:48 PM | Reply

How many times do I have to explain I'm not a single-issue voter?

BTW - Vote shaming is juvenile.

#159 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 05:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I'll give you credit for coming that far, Jeff. I'd still like to see a progressive rate increase after that since it's obvious who spends (i.e. needs) 100% of their income and who doesn't in this country, but if i were a legislator and this were all i could get i'd take it.

#160 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-04 05:51 PM | Reply

Then, after we do that, tax increases on all income brackets.

#158 | Posted by JeffJ

Why? Because they rich shouldnt pay more unless EVERYONE pays more? The rich can afford to. Everyone else is struggling to pay for healthcare and college.

They're not gonna let you into the clubhouse jeff no matter how shiny you get their shoes.

#161 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-12-04 05:51 PM | Reply

I also think you'd be surprised at how far just reversing all the preferential treatment we've seen for higher income taxpayers would get us. It's a shame that we'll never see that money.

#162 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-04 05:52 PM | Reply

Reading is fundamental, Speaks.

I said what Joe proposed was a good start.

You want big government? Then ------- pay for it. People would love it a lot less if they were actually required to pay for it.

#163 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 05:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I also think you'd be surprised at how far just reversing all the preferential treatment we've seen for higher income taxpayers would get us.

Like I said, it would be a good start.

#164 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 05:54 PM | Reply

"Like I said, it would be a good start."

Meanwhile, the guys you vote for are running full speed the opposite way.

#165 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-04 06:05 PM | Reply

"People would love it a lot less if they were actually required to pay for it."

But meanwhile, if Rs expand the government and slash taxes on the wealthiest, you'll punish them by voting for them next time.

#166 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-04 06:07 PM | Reply

#165 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Which is why he can say it on an anonymous board. He KNOWS that he can say he backs it because his money will never be where his mouth is. Jeff is the 'look at me' of fence sitters. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain (or the vote I make) just believe what I say.

#167 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2018-12-04 06:10 PM | Reply

#163

Whyyyyy should IIII have to pay for it?

-Shreek

#168 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-04 06:13 PM | Reply

I see the JeffJ bashing team in out in force. Guess that's no surprise. There's so few conservatives on this blog that without him and a half dozen others you guys would have nothing left to do except give each other high-fives. That would get boring very quickly.

Go team!

#169 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-04 06:15 PM | Reply

"I see the JeffJ bashing team in out in force."

We'd bash you too, if you kept claiming you wanted A, yet were voting for people who keep giving you Z.

#170 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-04 06:17 PM | Reply

#169 What a shocker, not a lot of rightwingers on a leftwing blog. Next you'll tell me the comments section over at Daily Stormer doesn't have a big Bernie contingent.

#171 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-04 06:22 PM | Reply

Which is why he can say it on an anonymous board. He KNOWS that he can say he backs it because his money will never be where his mouth is. Jeff is the 'look at me' of fence sitters. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain (or the vote I make) just believe what I say.

#167 | POSTED BY JUSTAGIRL_IDAHO

What about this says or implies 'fence sitter'?

Party: Republican

Ideology: Conservative

That's right on my profile page.

#172 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 06:23 PM | Reply

The things you say to try and make people believe you are more moderate than you are. You now pretend that you were okay with Obama playing golf because your guys does it significantly more. You pretend you are a never Trumper, yet you back him any way you can and then run from it saying you were not backing him up. You claim that you are against the borrow and spend yet vote for more of it. In point of fact you talk out of both sides of your face as tho you sit the fence, but can claim to be a Republican when it suits you.

#173 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2018-12-04 06:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You're going to quickly learn that Republicans' traditional objections to opposing candidates no longer carry any weight due to your support

It's my personal personal preference. I would like to see a veteran president in my lifetime, whether that be someone in high speed spec-ops, an undes sailor, a chairmaster in the air force, or a returned peace corps volunteer. As long as they are a serious, sober candidate, they have my vote. Give me a Tammy Duckworth to vote for!

#174 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2018-12-04 06:37 PM | Reply

You want big government? Then ------- pay for it. People would love it a lot less if they were actually required to pay for it.

#163 | Posted by JeffJ

Yeah that's why candadians brits and swedes are all scrambling to copy our healthcare system.

#175 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-12-04 06:38 PM | Reply

Party: Republican

Ideology: Conservative

That's right on my profile page.

#172 | Posted by JeffJ

Then you should update it.

PARTY: TRUMP

There is no more republican party. There's just trump support and trump opposition. You've chosen your side. Better to stand beside the con man than agree with liberals.

#176 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-12-04 06:40 PM | Reply

Would you vote for a Republican primary challenger to Trump?

Would you vote for Beto O'Rourke over Trump?

Yes to a primary challenger (but who?!), maybe to O'Rourke. Depends who the VP candidate is. As it stands, and how the SCOTUS looks today, Trump's presidency has been a mission accomplished.

Any news on how Justice RBG is doing?

#177 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2018-12-04 06:41 PM | Reply

Great. Another psychoanalysis loaded with a bunch of straw men. It is funny how instead of responding to my actual words so many DR lefties want to make it all about me personally. I guess I should be honored that l live rent free in so many heads on this site.

#178 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 06:44 PM | Reply

Depends who the VP candidate is.

You would decide whether to vote for Beto vs. Trump based on who Beto's VP candidate is? That's just ridiculous imo.

#179 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-04 06:44 PM | Reply

I would love it if I knew how to Hans a few of my comments regarding Obama's golf.

#180 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 06:45 PM | Reply

Yeah, because who is Beto other than a pretty face and a popular guy who lost a senate race? Line him up with someone with experience and knows how things work (like Biden to Obama, LBJ to Kennedy).

#181 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2018-12-04 06:50 PM | Reply

"Another psychoanalysis loaded with a bunch of straw men."

It's your own words, and your own actions.

You make a bold proclamation--taxes should be hiked and/or spending cut until we pay our bills--yet vote for the folks who slash taxes and jack up spending.

It's a fair observation to point out the spectrum of difference.

#182 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-04 06:50 PM | Reply

Great. Another psychoanalysis loaded with a bunch of straw men. It is funny how instead of responding to my actual words so many DR lefties want to make it all about me personally. I guess I should be honored that l live rent free in so many heads on this site.

#178 | Posted by JeffJ

Yeah it's almost as if years of posting has given people a pretty clear picture of what you stand for. As if people can be known and judged by their words. Crazy!

#183 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-12-04 06:51 PM | Reply

"Line him up with someone with experience and knows how things work"

Didn't you vote for a guy who thinks money laundering, serial adultery, bribing porn stars, and tax evasion is "how things work"?

#184 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-04 06:51 PM | Reply

instead of responding to my actual words -- Jeff

Your stated actions contradict your words. You say you want one thing, but admit to having voted for the opposite. Therefore a lot of what you write is taken with a grain of salt. I am an independent. Very moderate. Financially more conservative than most Dems I know, but socially I am pretty liberal. I tend to lean Democrat when I must choose a side. I have little respect for someone that lets a party dictate how to vote. I feel like a lot of the time you want to be seen as more moderate than you actually are and therefore contradict yourself. It is why you get called out on so much BS. I read this site A LOT.

#185 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2018-12-04 06:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#182

I've also said that I'm not a single issue voter.

But that somehow gets ignored. In sum the GOP better represents my views than the Democratic Party.

Do you 100% agree with everything the DNC does, Danforth? If not then you have no business voting for them based on the logic you are applying.

#186 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 06:56 PM | Reply

I could have sworn it was jeff himself that first used the "fence-sitter" line to describe jeffyj.

#187 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2018-12-04 06:56 PM | Reply

#164

Gary Johnson likes those things too? That changes everything!

#188 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-04 06:56 PM | Reply

Sorry, that should be #184, damn phone.

#189 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-04 06:57 PM | Reply

Idaho,

If you read this site a lot you'd know that on social issues I'm quite liberal as well. I am who I am and my views don't track 100% in one direction on every issue. I'm a registered Republican and I've never tried to hide that. I'm also very critical of the GOP because in a lot of ways they royally suck. I tend to vote Republican out of pragmatism. I'd prefer to vote Libertarian (and did so in ‘16) because they better represent my views than the GOP. But they rarely have a shot at winning.

#190 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 07:02 PM | Reply

But that somehow gets ignored. In sum the GOP better represents my views than the Democratic Party.

Do you 100% agree with everything the DNC does, Danforth? If not then you have no business voting for them based on the logic you are applying.

#186 | Posted by JeffJ

Irrelevant.

The GOP is dead. It's the trump party now. You either support trump, his ethics, his morality, and everything that comes with him, or you don't. You can't pick and choose which parts of the trump party represent you. If you're in the trump party, you support white supremacy as much as you support the second amendment or whatever.

#191 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-12-04 07:04 PM | Reply

"Do you 100% agree with everything the DNC does"

No, but I'm not 180 degrees opposite them, again and again.

Budgets, taxes, and deficits are large issues. What's larger?

And you can't say size of government: Bush and Trump are both YUUUGE government-growers.

#192 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-04 07:07 PM | Reply

I could have sworn it was jeff himself that first used the "fence-sitter" line to describe jeffyj.

Posted by IndianaJones at 2018-12-04 06:56 PM | Reply

He used to be a supposed fence sitter back in the I have strong opinions on this. email me and we can discuss them further days.

#193 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-12-04 07:08 PM | Reply

#191. I love how you think you can just dictate all of the terms. For a progressive who claims to embrace nuance you frequently have a very binary view of things.

By your logic if Trump started pushing for single payer you'd be opposed.

#194 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 07:09 PM | Reply

"I tend to vote Republican out of pragmatism."

What does that mean?

#195 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-04 07:10 PM | Reply

Danforth,

Unfounded liabilities is a far bigger problem. If a Dem candidate were to seriously address it in a meaningful way you'd see me vote Democrat in spite of the other areas of disagreement.

#196 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 07:13 PM | Reply

Didn't you vote for a guy who thinks money laundering, serial adultery, bribing porn stars, and tax evasion is "how things work"?
#184 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

Different election in 2020.

As it stands, and how the SCOTUS looks today, Trump's presidency has been a mission accomplished.

Any news on how Justice RBG is doing? -me

#197 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2018-12-04 07:13 PM | Reply

It means if the Libertarian has no chance of winning I'll default to the GOP

#198 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 07:14 PM | Reply

Those were the days, Laura.

What did you think of my threat on that climate thread? You need to check it out.

#199 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 07:15 PM | Reply

"If a Dem candidate were to seriously address it in a meaningful way you'd see me vote "

The Republican elected officials seriously addressed it in a meaningful way: they made it $2.1 Trillion WORSE. And you rewarded them with your vote.

It's hard to believe this is an important issue, given the math.

#200 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-04 07:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I'm talking about unfunded liabilities, not the current deficits.

#201 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 07:21 PM | Reply

"Different election in 2020. "

That doesn't change the way you voted.

"and how the SCOTUS looks today, Trump's presidency has been a mission accomplished."

On what issues? Screwing workers? Creating a de facto dictatorship? Subjugating certain people?

#202 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-04 07:22 PM | Reply

By your logic if Trump started pushing for single payer you'd be opposed.

#194 | Posted by JeffJ

No by my logic, if trump supported any of my priorities I still wouldn't support trump or spend any time defending him because I don't support fascism or white supremacy.

You think it's a worthwhile compromise to allow the rise of white supremacy if it gets you some tax cuts or whatever.

#203 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-12-04 07:23 PM | Reply

"I'm talking about unfunded liabilities"

Okay...

Will the $2.1 Trillion in newly borrowed money, 82% given away to the wealthiest, cause addressing the unfunded liabilities to be BETTER, or WORSE?

#204 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-04 07:24 PM | Reply

A de facto dictatorship?

Risible.

#205 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 07:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#204

The tax cuts don't address unfunded liabilities at all.

#206 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 07:26 PM | Reply

It means if the Libertarian has no chance of winning I'll default to the GOP

#198 | Posted by JeffJ

The libertarian never does.

So you're saying you're going to vote for trump in 2020, despite his support for nazis and klansmen, despite his blowing up the budget, despite his obvious criminality, despite his turning his back on democracies and embracing murderous dictators...

You're so anti democrat that you've been sucked into the trump cult without even realizing it.

#207 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-12-04 07:26 PM | Reply

He used to be a supposed fence sitter back in the I have strong opinions on this. email me and we can discuss them further days.
#193 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

I thought he was joking because his rightwing bias was so obvious.

#208 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2018-12-04 07:28 PM | Reply

That doesn't change the way you voted.

What's done is done and I wouldn't change it.
"No ragrats" [sic]
¯_(ツ)_/¯

#209 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2018-12-04 07:29 PM | Reply

So much ridiculous DRama on this thread...wow.

#210 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-04 07:29 PM | Reply

So much ridiculous DRama on this thread...wow.

#210 | Posted by Rightocenter

The last resort of the trump cult is always to say people are too emotional in their opposition to trump.

You cant make a decent argument to defend him so you try and attack the messenger's tone instead.

Weak sauce.

#211 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-12-04 07:31 PM | Reply

No by my logic, if trump supported any of my priorities I still wouldn't support trump or spend any time defending him because I don't support fascism or white supremacy.

So, if Trump took an action you support you would be opposed to him taking an action you support?

Again, this binary view you are taking is just dumb. If Trump does something you support it's OK to say so. Doing that doesn't mean you support him nor does it necessarily mitigate all of the things he does that you disagree with. You've caught yourself in a logical trap because you've made this binary.

I supported Obama's decision to try and normalize relations with Cuba and I said so at the time. I thought his speech after the Giffords shooting (after 3 days of the right and left ripping each other to shreds) was magnificent and I said so at the time. Does that make me an Obama supporter? If you say yes Hans is going to show up and link the "This is the part where we throw our heads back and laugh' thingy.

#212 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 07:32 PM | Reply

So you're saying you're going to vote for trump in 2020, despite his support for nazis and klansmen, despite his blowing up the budget, despite his obvious criminality, despite his turning his back on democracies and embracing murderous dictators...

I have no idea how I'm going to vote 2 years from now. In politics 2 years is a lifetime. It's a fluid situation.

I thought he was joking because his rightwing bias was so obvious.

#208 | POSTED BY INDIANAJONES

If you saw those posts then you used to post under a different name.

Here is your profile:

INDIANAJONES

Henry Jones II

Seniority: 316

Party: None

Ideology: Liberal

Private E-mail
Visit Home Page

Joined 2016/09/09


Those posts were made a long time ago.

Genuinely curious - what other names have you used?

No worries if you don't want to answer.

#213 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 07:36 PM | Reply

You're so anti democrat that you've been sucked into the trump cult without even realizing it.

#207 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Right. I'm so anti-Democrat that I voted for Carl Levin every time he was on the ballot.

#214 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 07:41 PM | Reply

"The tax cuts don't address unfunded liabilities at all."

You're using Republican Math™

Try Actual Math, and answer the question again: if you're in debt up to your eyeballs, and you vote to give away 10 MORE of the debt, does that make dealing with unfunded liabilities EASIER, or HARDER?

#215 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-04 07:41 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"A de facto dictatorship?
Risible."

The newest judge doesn't think the President should be bothered with following pesky laws. What would YOU call it?

Wait...

What would you call it if it were Obama who committed crimes?

#216 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-04 07:44 PM | Reply

"I voted for Carl Levin every time he was on the ballot."

Last time Carl Levin was on the ballot was over 10 years ago.

#217 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-04 07:46 PM | Reply

10 MORE of the debt =10% MORE of the debt

#218 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-04 07:47 PM | Reply

#216. Completely false regarding Kavanaugh. Completely.

#219 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 07:48 PM | Reply

So, if Trump took an action you support you would be opposed to him taking an action you support?

#212 | Posted by JeffJ

No if trump did something I support I'd still not support trump, would still not vote for him, and would still do everything in my power to prevent his re election.

If you had any brains, ethics, or patriotism you would too.

#220 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-12-04 07:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

$2.1 Trillion under static scoring, which assumes that tax cuts have zero effect on the economy. It makes for a nice talking point but it's a dumb way to measure a tax cut.

Secondly, it's small potatoes compared with the unfunded liabilities

#221 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 07:53 PM | Reply

"$2.1 Trillion under static scoring"

Republicans tried to sell it as $1.5 Trillion, conveniently ignoring interest.

"which assumes that tax cuts have zero effect on the economy."

You're right: tax cuts only create ~85 cents on the dollar of economic activity, so it'll actually cost MORE than $2.1 Trillion. Good catch.

"it's small potatoes compared with the unfunded liabilities"

Wow, you fail at math every time, don't you?

#222 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-04 07:56 PM | Reply

#213 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

I've never posted under a different name. You were claiming to be a fence sitter this year, so I am not sure why the age of my account is relevant.

#223 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2018-12-04 07:57 PM | Reply

With the number of "Gary Johnson" voters I've encountered since 2016, it's a wonder the man didn't win the election. Must be a stroke of luck that everyone i see arguing in support of Trump day in and day out just happens to have voted for someone else.

#224 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-04 08:00 PM | Reply

Secondly, it's small potatoes compared with the unfunded liabilities

#221 | Posted by JeffJ

Jeff can't tell the ethical difference between paying for social security for old people and paying for tax cuts so rich people can buy more yachts.

#225 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-12-04 08:04 PM | Reply

"it's small potatoes "

Going in the diametrically opposed direction is NOT small potatoes.

You CANNOT decry debt and deficits, warn about unfunded liabilities, and then approve borrowing an additional $2.1 Trillion for tax cuts. Especially when you're not balancing the budget to begin with.

The tax cuts are all based on new, additional borrowing...you know that, right?

#226 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-04 08:11 PM | Reply

Secondly, it's small potatoes compared with the unfunded liabilities
#221 | Posted by JeffJ

Oh lovely the unfunded liabilities Squawk machine is up and running again.

#227 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-12-04 08:13 PM | Reply

$2.1 Trillion is "small potatoes," but when we raise taxes it absolutely has to be on poor people. Why isn't the amount you'd extract from the poor "small potatoes" in your eyes?

#228 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-04 08:33 PM | Reply

Secondly, it's small potatoes compared with the unfunded liabilities

#221 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Only when you trot out the -------- infinite horizon PROJECTION that's been shot down at least a dozen times.

It's becoming dishonest to use that talking point as you've had ample corrections on the matter.

#229 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-04 08:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"It's becoming dishonest to use that talking point as you've had ample corrections on the matter."

Now, now....

Jeff can't even state if blowing $2 Trillion is bad enough to affect his vote.

#230 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-04 09:24 PM | Reply

Take it up with the actuaries, JPW.

The unfunded liabilities is a real thing - a population bulge all drawing benefits in disproportion to contributors. That you deny this is ridiculous.

You're right: tax cuts only create ~85 cents on the dollar of economic activity, so it'll actually cost MORE than $2.1 Trillion. Good catch.

Left-wing economics is really a funny thing to behold. Apparently, the less the private sector has in total, the more it spends. Never mind the fact that savings is actually a form of spending in the financial sector. This is Econ101 crap that you are attempting to argue is inverse.

#231 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-04 09:26 PM | Reply

You are hoping so badly I can feel it here.

#232 | Posted by fresno500 at 2018-12-04 09:27 PM | Reply

#231 nice cop out. It's still a projection you present as a definitive number.

#233 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-04 09:31 PM | Reply

They better have Mueller investigate her father, billionaire William Sanders, you never know what unseemly things unscrupulous Republicans might dig up about him and his money.

#234 | Posted by jdmeth at 2018-12-04 09:41 PM | Reply

Oh, FFS.

SNAP creates $1.70 of economic activity for every dollar:
www.cbpp.org

Tax cuts create less economic activity than "Transfers to Individuals":
www.taxpolicycenter.org

#235 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-04 09:45 PM | Reply

"Apparently, the less the private sector has in total, the more it spends."

You've been wrong about everything before, so please pay attention:

The reason $1 in SNAP benefits creates $1.70 in economic activity is folks on the bottom rung spend all their money, and then some. in addition-literally--a chunk of what they spend goes to the same spend-it-all class. Rinse, repeat.

$1 in tax cuts may or may not create economic activity on this side of the planet. It's also difficult to horde money when you don't have any to begin with. Regardless, a dollar in tax cuts doesn't create as much economic activity as a dollar in SNAP.

#236 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-04 09:57 PM | Reply

"If you read this site a lot you'd know that on social issues I'm quite liberal as well.
POSTED BY JEFFJ"

Supports voter disenfranchisement through Voter ID.
Wants to end Affirmative Action.
Supports taking public taxpayer money from public schools and redistributing it to private schools, including religious schools, in voucher form.
Doesn't believe in global warming, or any regulatory framework to fight it.
Thinks labor unions hurt workers.
Thinks police shootings are almost always justified.
Thinks bailing out GM was wrong.
Thinks people shouldn't be allowed to use the bathroom that matches their gender identity.
Thinks an armed march of Nazis is a peaceable assembly.
Thinks monuments to racism should never be removed from the public square.

Any other liberal bona fides I forgot, JeffJ?

#237 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-04 10:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

O'Rourke said at an El Paso town hall last week that he was considering a run, pending discussions with his family.

Beto meets with Obama: www.washingtonpost.com

#238 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2018-12-04 10:38 PM | Reply

Robert Francis O'Rourke, "Beto", a Irishman married to a billionaire pretends to be a Latino progressive fighting for the little guy.

I love it!

#12 | Posted by AndreaMackris

If he was bigoted towards Latinos you would think he's the bee's knees.

#239 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-04 10:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#239

Your trolling has become really pathetic...what happened to you?

I am being serious.

#240 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-04 11:11 PM | Reply

--what happened to you?

PTSD caused by Nov. 8th 2016. Poor little fella.

#241 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-04 11:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Your trolling has become really pathetic...what happened to you?
#240 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

He's not trolling. Most his comments are spot on.

How curious one never has to wonder whether JPW supports Trump.

Unlike you. The majority of your posts read as if you're eating straight outta Don's orange excrement shoot.

#242 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-04 11:24 PM | Reply

It's sad, we used to have intelligent conversations, but it's like he is trying to be dumber than clownshart and idiotjones combined.

#243 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-04 11:38 PM | Reply

ClownShack on Beto O'Rourke Seen as a Top Contender in 2020: Poll ...

I think I felt a little ankle nibble from the Clown Prince of Persia...I'm sure it was really insightful.

#244 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-04 11:42 PM | Reply

#231 nice cop out. It's still a projection you present as a definitive number.

#233 | POSTED BY JPW

By all means, keep burying your head in the sand.

#245 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 12:17 AM | Reply

#244 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

How ridiculous of you to pretend you're always signed in and never see plonked user comments.

Do you usually pout this much at home? Or is this for my benefit?

#246 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-05 12:24 AM | Reply

Any other liberal bona fides I forgot, JeffJ?

#237 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

A ton. But you are fundamentally dishonest and while I'm being generous right now I mostly ignore your trolling, douchebaggery and inanity. Sometimes you exude your smarts and education - be it a somewhat rare thought-provoking post or through clever humor.

Mostly you disappoint - you punch way below your pay-grade. For a long time I allowed myself to be pulled into your web - defending myself against absurd straw-men only to realize it didn't matter. That I'm even addressing you right now is a huge act of charity on my part. I mostly ignore you because it is well deserved. I won't plonk you because just often enough you type a good post.

Just thought you should know. I'll go back to ignoring you most of the time.

#247 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 12:25 AM | Reply

"By all means, keep burying your head in the sand."

The President you support and are pleased with just borrowed $2 trillion dollars of sand to help with that.

Strange that you can't see it.

#248 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-05 12:28 AM | Reply

"Any other liberal bona fides I forgot, JeffJ?
#237 | POSTED BY SNOOFY
A ton."

Funny how you can't name any of them.
I guess you would like for me to ignore that.

I'll never ignore you, JeffJ.
It's like asking a doctor to ignore cancer.

#249 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-05 12:30 AM | Reply

"right now I mostly ignore your trolling, douchebaggery and inanity."

Of course.

You ignore anything that don't fit into your narrative.

The most striking example is how you ignored your wife's failure to file a police report.

#250 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-05 12:33 AM | Reply

The reason $1 in SNAP benefits creates $1.70 in economic activity is folks on the bottom rung spend all their money, and then some.

The "Multiplier theory" is one of the stupidest aspects of left-wing economics.

I'll list a couple of the most obvious false-assumptions:

1. The biggest is static-scoring - taking $1 dollar out of the private sector apparently doesn't have any adverse economic impact but recycled back through government is has a multiplier effect.

2. Bureaucratic-drain? $1 siphoned out of the private sector doesn't equal $1 to the recipient once it filters its way back through.

#251 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 12:37 AM | Reply

Your trolling has become really pathetic...what happened to you?

I am being serious.

#240 | Posted by Rightocenter

The right showed themselves to be a complete joke.

All the moralizing, self-righteous pontificating has been shown to be a giant sham.

Their faith? A lie. Their morals? Context specific rules for others.

Their economic and fiscal ideals? A cudgel to beat the Dems into submission.

In the past two months the wheels have begun to fly off the clown car. Supporting this ---- show boils down to bind stupidity or self-absorbed greed.

I don't freak out over every Trump tweet. Hell, I'm not even on Twitter. I don't think every gaffe that spills from his pie hole is the end of the world.

But I do know that every day he occupies that office he sullies its reputation. He embarrasses the US and, by extension, all of us. The Repub base has latched on to him and has decided they're going to support him no matter what.

That leaves me no choice but to treat them with the same way that I would treat Trump if I were to meet him face to face: with the utmost contempt.

Hence why I posted what I did to Andrea. He/she/it/Xe has proven themselves to be driven by political expediency and nothing more.

So why should I hesitate to point that out? Because you'll accuse me of morphing into a partisan? Pffft.

That's nothing but low hanging fruit for a poster looking to justify their desire to write off the hart biting posts of somebody who's principles and ideals have remained constant.

I'm sorry you can't see this outside of a partisan context but it's really that simple. Trump is toxic and so are his supporters. Anybody who claims not to support him but who continues to deny this fact is doing so out of something other than rational though.

#252 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-05 12:37 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#252 | POSTED BY JPW

You say the exact same thing about pretty much any Republican politician. And you downplay similar-to identical-to worse behavior out of Democrats. It's partisanship on your part. 100% You are just too ----------- to be honest about it.

#253 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 12:41 AM | Reply

PTSD caused by Nov. 8th 2016. Poor little fella.

#241 | Posted by nullifidian

Funny you should weigh in with your wrong as usual opinions.

"What happened to me" was I realized there was no utility in remaining polite to anybody who was willingly and openly supporting Trump. There's no rational thought driving that mindset. As such you're either stupid or immoral/greedy if you maintain consistent support of Trump.

As for you weighing in, I'd say that's pretty laughable given the hard turn you've taken from local curmudgeon to local racist, xenophobic curmudgeon who loathes the state they live in just slightly less than enough to move to the white nationalist capital of the US.

#254 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-05 12:43 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

100% You are just too ----------- to be honest about it.

#253 | Posted by JeffJ

LOL

You haven't represented a position of mine accurately for months.

Just stop trying. You obviously don't have the ability to stop your compulsive lying or an ability to even recognize it.

#255 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-05 12:46 AM | Reply

"But you are fundamentally dishonest"

Well that's just not true, JeffJ. I'm brutally honest.

If I misconstrued any of your positions in #237, feel free to set the record straight.

Not that you ever do. You just keep trotting out the same old lies, half-truths, and mischaracterizaions, again and again.

#256 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-05 12:47 AM | Reply

1. The biggest is static-scoring - taking $1 dollar out of the private sector apparently doesn't have any adverse economic impact but recycled back through government is has a multiplier effect.

Are you denying the Mulitplier Effect, or your own sloppy claim that "taking $1 dollar out of the private sector apparently doesn't have any adverse economic impact?"

Because if you're denying the Mulitplier Effect, you need to ask your economics professors for your money back.

#257 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-05 12:49 AM | Reply

"What happened to me" was I realized there was no utility in remaining polite to anybody who was willingly and openly supporting Trump"

Bingo.

I feel the same about Second Amendment supportrs, by the way.

Because you can get everything you need from your guns the way they do it in Canada, with a remarkable reduction in school shootings, church shootings, synagogue shootings, movie theater shootings, and concert shootings.

#258 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-05 12:52 AM | Reply

You say the exact same thing about pretty much any Republican politician.

Maybe because, as of late, they've all jumped aboard the Trump Train Wreck.

You have this nagging problem of being piss poor at assessing reality but expecting people to believe your ------ assessment of reality.

Sorry, bro, but I'm not going to accept your twisted as ---- version of reality just to play nice.

And you downplay similar-to identical-to worse behavior out of Democrats.

Because it's almost always a figment of your partisan imagination.

How old are you? Seriously. I ask because you have one of the most genuine but loose grasp on reality of anybody on the DR.

#259 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-05 12:54 AM | Reply

You haven't represented a position of mine accurately for months...

#255 | POSTED BY JPW

I'm well aware of that. This time I was particularly deliberate.

It's annoying, isn't it?

Know what? You haven't represented a position of mine accurately for over a year.

Deal honestly and I will do my very best to return the courtesy.

Be an increasingly perpetual dick and you get what you get.

#260 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 12:57 AM | Reply

. The biggest is static-scoring - taking $1 dollar out of the private sector apparently doesn't have any adverse economic impact but recycled back through government is has a multiplier effect.

What a good little sheep. You're protesting every dollar being kept from the 1%'s pocket.

But it's because you're too far gone to see the faults in your thinking.

And it's even Econ 101 level stuff. Stuff you claim to be familiar with.

#261 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-05 01:00 AM | Reply

JPW- I'm not going to respond to #259 because I was baiting you. Apparently I was successful...

#262 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 01:01 AM | Reply

#252 | POSTED BY JPW

Newsworthy.

I'd give it more than 1 if I could.

#263 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-05 01:02 AM | Reply

Know what? You haven't represented a position of mine accurately for over a year.

Deal honestly and I will do my very best to return the courtesy.

Be an increasingly perpetual dick and you get what you get.

#260 | Posted by JeffJ

LOL

I've represented your views quite accurately.

You're just butt hurt that the implications of your views cast a shadow on the perception you would like to have.

Lie with pigs and you'll get dirty.

#264 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-05 01:03 AM | Reply

You're protesting every dollar being kept from the 1%'s pocket.

Straw man.

But it's because you're too far gone to see the faults in your thinking.

Too dumb to even be a straw man.

And it's even Econ 101 level stuff. Stuff you claim to be familiar with.

#261 | POSTED BY JPW

Actually, it isn't. I listed some of the problems with the multiplier theory. It was an incomplete list. Can you address any of it on point?

#265 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 01:04 AM | Reply

PW- I'm not going to respond to #259 because I was baiting you. Apparently I was successful...

#262 | Posted by JeffJ

LOL it was all part of your grant plan...

Sure.

I don't think anybody beyond Nulli and rightocorky will believe you.

#266 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-05 01:08 AM | Reply

I've represented your views quite accurately.

No you haven't. Not even close.

You're just butt hurt that the implications of your views cast a shadow on the perception you would like to have.

I am totally comfortable with my views. I react when they are distorted. The reaction gets stronger the more they are distorted.

I tried to show you what that was like by turning that back onto you.

Instead of empathizing you double-downed on douchebaggery. I guess you should go back to advocating the revocation of the voting rights of 30% of the population because they don't share your pompous political views.

#267 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 01:09 AM | Reply

I don't freak out over every Trump tweet. ~JPW

No you lost your freaking mind the evening of the election .... It really hasn't come back either....

#268 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2018-12-05 01:10 AM | Reply

I have ZERO doubt you won't cry foul on this but...

JPW- I'm not going to respond to #259 because I was baiting you. Apparently I was successful...

#262 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-12-05 01:01 AM


Was actually intended toward

#261 | POSTED BY JPW

Sorry for the misattribution.

#269 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 01:17 AM | Reply

"The "Multiplier theory" is one of the stupidest aspects of left-wing economics."

Yeah, no.
It's not really all that different than the Treasury turning a profit from TARP.
I think you suffer from Economic Asperger's.
And I daresay it's not limited to your understanding of economics.

#270 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-05 01:25 AM | Reply

"I am totally comfortable with my views. I react when they are distorted. The reaction gets stronger the more they are distorted."

What was distorted in my #237, then?

#271 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-05 01:27 AM | Reply

Straw man.

Clearly, you don't know what that means.

Too dumb to even be a straw man.

Feeble attempt at a deflection.

Actually, it isn't. I listed some of the problems with the multiplier theory.

Giving a little bit of cash to a lot of people who will spend it puts more currency into the economy than giving a lot of cash to people who will horde it.

The former multiplies because most of it (all of it by American saving stats...) goes back into the economy when the store owner (level up!) spends it much like the recipient did.

Even if we quabble over the details, you're still fighting a losing battle. Trickle down has been show to be an abysmal failure. Period.

Arguing with that only shows how moronic you are.

#272 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-05 01:29 AM | Reply

Clearly, you don't know what that means.

Sure I do. You prefer erecting and knocking down straw-men than dealing with me honestly. It's strange as you handle yourself very well when engaged in honest discourse

Feeble attempt at a deflection.

It was in response to you deflecting from this thread and trying to make it about mw.

#273 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 01:36 AM | Reply

No you haven't. Not even close.

How so?

Make a compelling argument and I'll change my tune.

But make sure it's a good argument. I make a living parsing complex information to identify inconsistencies and discrepancies.

I tried to show you what that was like by turning that back onto you.

LOL so what does it tell you when the point is clearly missed?

Instead of empathizing you double-downed on douchebaggery.

You didn't make a compelling enough argument. Sorry, but that's the truth of the matter.

I guess you should go back to advocating the revocation of the voting rights of 30% of the population because they don't share your pompous political views.

#267 | Posted by JeffJ

My views are hardly pompous. They are, however, consistent and informed.

As for my claims that you're lying, I think this is a prime example.

I've stated quite clearly that I think Trump supporters are too stupid to vote. You're inserting your interpretation of my statements to conclude that it's a mere disagreement that's driving my views.

Still want to push your point?

#274 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-05 01:38 AM | Reply

No you lost your freaking mind the evening of the election .... It really hasn't come back either....

#268 | Posted by AndreaMackris

A disturbingly large portion of the population showed their stupidity in November 2016.

Far too many have continued to show it by supporting that turd until now.

If you don't want to be a turd, mackris, don't act like one.

#275 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-05 01:41 AM | Reply

Giving a little bit of cash to a lot of people who will spend it puts more currency into the economy than giving a lot of cash to people who will horde it.

Which sounds great when viewed in a vacuum. You have to assume that taking from producers and redistributing it to non-producers will have zero effect on the economic activity of the producers.

You also have to assume that "saving" by the wealthy doesn't translate to its own economic activity. The more the wealth "save' the more money banks have on-hand to lend to the impoverished.

#276 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 01:42 AM | Reply

I've stated quite clearly that I think Trump supporters are too stupid to vote. You're inserting your interpretation of my statements to conclude that it's a mere disagreement that's driving my views.

Still want to push your point?

#274 | POSTED BY JPW

Your argument stems from bigotry and faux-self-superiority.

Do you want to be Speaksoftly 2.0 or are you someone who I should take seriously?

#277 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 01:46 AM | Reply

Make a compelling argument and I'll change my tune.

I can't even count how many times I've clarified a mischaracterization of my views by you. Initially, I blame myself for poor articulation. After a bunch of clarifications get ignored, it's on you. Either you decide to be a dick and call me a liar (when I've been courteous to you) or you just willfully misrepresent what I say...to be a dick.

#278 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 01:50 AM | Reply

It's strange as you handle yourself very well when engaged in honest discourse

Maybe you're engaging me in dishonest discourse more frequently than you think?

You're touching on the reason why I frequently ask why, if you seem to trust me in most contexts, you disbelieve me in specific ones.

when people I trust make rational arguments in contexts that I disagree with them in I tend to listen.

#279 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-05 01:51 AM | Reply

i>Either you decide to be a dick and call me a liar (when I've been courteous to you) or you just willfully misrepresent what I say...to be a dick.

#278 | Posted by JeffJ

LOL

Your argument stems from bigotry and faux-self-superiority.

Do you want to be Speaksoftly 2.0 or are you someone who I should take seriously?

#277 | Posted by JeffJ

Checkmate.

PS Trump supporters are stupid. At best, gullible. But likely stupid.

#280 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-05 01:53 AM | Reply

A disturbingly large portion of the population showed their stupidity in November 2016...

#275 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2018-12-05 01:41 AM |

Which is what I've witnessed you saying every time an election doesn't go your way.

#281 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 01:54 AM | Reply

"You have to assume that taking from producers and redistributing it to non-producers will have zero effect on the economic activity of the producers."

This isn't even the language of economics any longer.

Producers and non-producers, this is just wealth apologist nonsensw.

Also, your math is wrong. All that you have to assume is it will have greater positive effect that letting the producers do whatever they would do with it, which is often just keep it on the sidelines, i.e., do nothing with it.

Which is all intuitively obvious if you consider who makes more selling cars, Toyotas that regular people buy, or 50x the cost Lamborghinis which sell at far lower volume than even 1/50th of Toyotas.

#282 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-05 01:56 AM | Reply

when people I trust make rational arguments in contexts that I disagree with them in I tend to listen.

#279 | POSTED BY JPW

Great qualifier - that's "Latin" for - "People who toe my line."

#283 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 01:57 AM | Reply

No you lost your freaking mind the evening of the election .... It really hasn't come back either....
#268 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

GTFOH

You're all butt hurt JPW is throwing your shht in your face.

Mandrea, a mattress. You're the biggest liar, troll, shill on the DR.

Time after time you post garbage. Get your shht thrown back in your face. Then you run away.

Your only fan is Nulli.

You took a hiatus from the DR. Why did you come back?

#284 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-05 01:59 AM | Reply

You have to assume that taking from producers and redistributing it to non-producers will have zero effect on the economic activity of the producers.

Oh my God. With this kind of -------- I know to never take your "econ 101" posts seriously.

"Taking for producers". LOL You gullible, spoon fed fool.

There's a high likelihood that any individual dollar given to a 1%er would be horded away and its economic benefit halted.

There's an equally high likelihood (probably higher, actually...) that any individual dollar given to a bottom 10%er will be cycled back into the economy.

Your inability to grasp this suggests you don't have the ability to grasp complex systems.

#285 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-05 02:00 AM | Reply

Trump supporters are stupid. At best, gullible. But likely stupid.

#280 | POSTED BY JPW A

Why stop with Trump Supporters? You characterize just about anyone who disagrees with you about anything as, at best stupid and at worst gullible.

My reversal was deliberate.

#286 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 02:00 AM | Reply

"You also have to assume that "saving" by the wealthy doesn't translate to its own economic activity. The more the wealth "save' the more money banks have on-hand to lend to the impoverished."

This is also pretty damn wrong.

For starters, banks don't lend to the impoverished, unless someone else is there to guarantee the loan. Payday lenders do, though.

And again, savings doesn't have to translate into zero economic activity, just less than spending.

#287 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-05 02:02 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Great qualifier - that's "Latin" for - "People who toe my line."

#283 | Posted by JeffJ

LOL

you're too far gone.

You look for any excuse to justify your view point, no matter how unsupported or ridiculous it is (not mutually exclusive).

Stop whining and man up. Examine your views for once or, at the very least, stop assuming they're correct.

#288 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-05 02:04 AM | Reply

Your inability to grasp this suggests you don't have the ability to grasp complex systems.

#285 | POSTED BY JPW

Of course. Centrally-controlled economies always thrive in your ridiculous Utopian ignorance of current events. Lemme guess - Venezuela is an overwhelming.success....

#289 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 02:06 AM | Reply

Why stop with Trump Supporters? You characterize just about anyone who disagrees with you about anything as, at best stupid and at worst gullible.

Not at all. You just throw this accusation out there because it lets you skate without actually formulating a real thought or argument.

I stop at Trump supporters because that's the extent of relevancy in our conversation.

I've never characterized somebody who likes KC style BBQ as stupid. Because, even though it's too sweet and sauce heavy for me, I realize it's a subjective thing that I can't really argue against.

When it comes to Trump supporters who continue to support Trump policies that are having OBJECTIVE, QUANTIFIABLE negative consequences to the US,you're wrong.

#290 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-05 02:09 AM | Reply

Stop whining and man up. Examine your views for once or, at the very least, stop assuming they're correct.

#288 | POSTED BY JPW

Look in the mirror. I am 100 times more humble than you.

Yes, part of that is due to the fact that you are smarter than me. The rest of it is due to you being an arrogant ----- who is not as smart or experienced as he thinks he is.

#291 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 02:11 AM | Reply

#289 | Posted by JeffJ

LOL how did you jump to a Venezuela deflection from that?

Do you have some new story you're just itching to post and challenge lefties to refute?

#292 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-05 02:12 AM | Reply

When it comes to Trump supporters who continue to support Trump policies that are having OBJECTIVE, QUANTIFIABLE negative consequences to the US,you're wrong.

#290 | POSTED BY JPW

So, you are the sole arbiter of this?

To hold yourself out there as fitting into any of the vaunted subsets you described is almost as comical as trying to force someone else in.

#293 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 02:18 AM | Reply

Jesus

#293 was a disaster of a post. I am so sorry about that.

#294 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 02:20 AM | Reply

Seriously -that was on par with zHousing Military'

#295 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 02:23 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Look in the mirror. I am 100 times more humble than you.

LOL will your uncle beat up my uncle too?

The rest of it is due to you being an arrogant ----- who is not as smart or experienced as he thinks he is.

You have no idea what range my experiences encompass.

However, you'll notice I rarely question opinion based on experience. Ever read exchanges between et_al and I? Well, if you haven't I'll clue you in-I show a lot of deference and respect for et_al because he almost always posts based solely on experience with available information to back it. I lack the experience to challenge his posts and so my interactions with him (her?) are largely composed of questions. Same goes for Eberly.

So blow it out your arse, in an experiences fashion, hopefully.

#296 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-05 02:24 AM | Reply

Bedways is Rightways. I'll check backin tomorrow AM.

#297 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 02:24 AM | Reply

#293 was a disaster of a post. I am so sorry about that.

LOL

What's the spirit of choice this evening?

That's not a dig. I am, after all, the DR drunk.

#298 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-05 02:26 AM | Reply

"Centrally-controlled economies always thrive in your ridiculous Utopian ignorance of current events."

Can you grasp that forbidding Medicare from negotiating drug prices is Central Planning, or is that too confusing?

#299 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-05 03:24 AM | Reply

I give JPW credit for even trying to convince intentionally ignorant people of...well, anything.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see."

Sorry Jeff, you've jumped the shark.

#300 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-05 04:49 AM | Reply

Sorry for the drunken blogging last night, folks.

At the time I felt I was on a roll.

Perusing my posts after the fact it is clear I was on some kind of a roll but it wasn't a good one.

JPW is a far better drunk blogger than I am.

At best I hope my posts provided some kind of entertainment value in a purely self-deprecating way.

#301 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 09:00 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

The last time I drunk-blogged to that extent was a couple of years ago. I got a vacation and had no idea why. I finally guessed that it was because I called Dirk Struan Dick Stain. I emailed Rcade to ask him if that was why I got put in jail. He responded that he didn't even see the Dick Stain comment and it had something to do with some kind of racial remark I made about Iranians. He was nice enough to offer me an opportunity to clarify. I had to sheepishly admit that I was drunk-blogging and didn't remember the comment. He thought that was hilarious and he made an immediate reinstatement of my posting privileges based upon how he felt about the sauce I had been drinking. So I told him what it was and he felt good enough about it to give me a get out of jail free card.

#302 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 09:07 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Have you ever watched 'Drunk History'?

It's pretty funny. Ordinary people drink to a point of obvious drunkenness and then try to explain history.

#303 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2018-12-05 09:28 AM | Reply

"Seriously -that was on par with zHousing Military'" - #295 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 02:23 AM

Wow! Only people speaking the language of known conflict have now become the entire housing military.
And...
In Kantian fashion, our moral disposition is being confronted with and tested by the social order and this trend is determined by ethical, political, and juridical power. (Empire!) building.
And...
Fortunately, the totality of the empire is not falling in line with the single state policing.
And...
reasoning skills are necessary to add the post he was responding to to his own.
;0)

#304 | Posted by Hans at 2018-12-05 09:35 AM | Reply

I love what I hear from Beto. But personally I don't think he's ready to run for president. Maybe by the next time around.

#305 | Posted by cbob at 2018-12-05 09:40 AM | Reply

George H.W.R.I.P.'s Bush's service dog should run as Republican in 2020. He'd win against any Democrat challenger, no doubt.

He's a US citizen by birth, and all he needs to be is 5 years old to meet the age requirement.

#306 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2018-12-05 09:51 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

He's a US citizen by birth, and all he needs to be is 5 years old to meet the age requirement.

#306 | POSTED BY NERFHERDER

That's funny. A few years ago my wife got me a t-shirt with this: In dog beers I've only had one.

#307 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 09:56 AM | Reply

#304 | POSTED BY HANS

Those are fantastic quotes, Hans.

Makes me feel a bit better about my incoherence last night.

#308 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 09:59 AM | Reply

I love what I hear from Beto. But personally I don't think he's ready to run for president. Maybe by the next time around.

#305 | POSTED BY CBOB AT 2018-12-05 09:40 AM | FLAG:

His whole campaign is to tell you what you want to hear.

I for one am enjoying the resurgence of the corporate dem. Definitely not dead yet.

#309 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-05 10:18 AM | Reply

I love what I hear from Beto. But personally I don't think he's ready to run for president. Maybe by the next time around.

People said the same thing about Obama. There's something to be said for a clean slate. After Trump nobody can say anything about a candidate's lack of experience.

#310 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-05 10:41 AM | Reply

After Trump nobody can say anything about a candidate's lack of experience.

#310 | POSTED BY JOE

Trump has set the bar awfully low. It's disheartening that POTUS doesn't attract the truly best candidates.

#311 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 10:45 AM | Reply

People said the same thing about Obama. There's something to be said for a clean slate.

#310 | POSTED BY JOE AT 2018-12-05 10:41 AM | FLAG:

I'm welcoming the return of the corporate Democrat. If the guy has the balls to get up there and try to convince a bunch of old Mexican ladies that it's good to get your house sized, payed below market value rates for it, then turned into a Starbucks, that's my kind of Dem. It's going to be a financial win for me.

#312 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-05 10:48 AM | Reply

#312 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

Your cynicism is humorous.

#313 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 10:52 AM | Reply

People said the same thing about Obama. There's something to be said for a clean slate. - joe

At least Obama was a Jr senator, and illinios congressman if I recall.

Trump regardless of how you feel about his start earned his billions.

Robert has neither.... Robert married his money, and has never served as a representative of any kind.

Robert sets the lowest bar I have ever seen.

But he sure looks good (tall white male)!!!

#314 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2018-12-05 10:53 AM | Reply

Your cynicism is humorous.

#313 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-12-05 10:52 AM | FLAG:

It's not that cynical. I said from the beginning Hillary was a better choice for me economically. I'm enjoying the tax cuts, but tariffs are bad for me overall.

#315 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-05 10:56 AM | Reply

OK. Fair point.

#316 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 11:01 AM | Reply

"I'm enjoying the tax cuts"

Are they worth every taxpayer in your household borrowing $11,000 apiece?

#317 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-05 11:04 AM | Reply

At least Obama was a Jr senator, and illinios congressman if I recall.

And Trump was a racist twitter troll who bankrupted casinos and sold steaks, yet you voted for him. Nobody gives a ---- about the qualifications you only demand from Democrats. Beto is a congressman too, btw.

#318 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-05 11:07 AM | Reply

"At least Obama was a Jr senator, and illinios congressman if I recall." - #314 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2018-12-05 10:53 AM

Interesting you mention Illinois.

There was another politician from Illinois who served in the US House of Representatives.

He ran for a US Senate seat, but lost that election.

Then, a mere 2 years after losing his US Senate campaign, he found himself elected President of the United States.

That Illinois politician was a man named Abraham Lincoln.

#319 | Posted by Hans at 2018-12-05 11:07 AM | Reply

Robert married his money, and has never served as a representative of any kind.

Seriously, are you mentally retarded? He has been a Congressman for six years and was on a city council for six years before that. That's twelve more years of political experience than Trump had when you voted for him.

#320 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-05 11:09 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

--Robert married his money

Like John Kerry, but Bobby is better on a skateboard than Kerry was on a surfboard.

#321 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-05 11:10 AM | Reply

Are they worth every taxpayer in your household borrowing $11,000 apiece?

#317 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2018-12-05 11:04 AM | FLAG:

Sure. Can I get them without the stupidity of tariffs next time?

#322 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-05 11:15 AM | Reply

"Sure. "

Recheck your math.

"Can I get them without the stupidity of tariffs next time?"

No.

#323 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-12-05 11:17 AM | Reply

Well, Beto has already has built a reputation of losing to particularly loathsome Republicans (i.e. Ted Cruz) so I'm sure he'll build upon that legacy if Trump decides to run for re-election in 2020.

#324 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2018-12-05 11:17 AM | Reply

Beto has already has built a reputation of losing to particularly loathsome Republicans

...in Texas, where he did better statewide than any Democrat has in decades. Imagine how he might clean up on a national scale.

#325 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-05 11:18 AM | Reply

If Democrats nominate Sully Sullenberger for POTUS or VP and Beto O'Rourke runs for Senate against John Cornyn, Texas flips from red to blue. See Lawrence O'Donnell u tube interview with Sullenberger.

#326 | Posted by Texhoma at 2018-12-05 11:20 AM | Reply

Recheck your math.

#323 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2018-12-05 11:17 AM | FLAG:

Still sure.

#327 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-05 11:25 AM | Reply

"That Illinois politician was a man named Abraham Lincoln"

Wasn't he the guy who got elected despite the lowest popular vote percentage in the last 180 years of US presidential election history? Good thing the aisle-shuffling moderates and Democrats of the time created three separate parties for him to run against or the results might have been quite different.

#328 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2018-12-05 11:26 AM | Reply

Truth is, lots and lots of Democrats such as myself really know nothing about this guy O'Rourke. He has one hell of a lot of work to do before you get me waiving a Beto Banner. The fact that he is a billionaire and has never won public office before are not factors in his favor. On the other hand, everybody seems to be saying he is the real deal. Well, you have my attention. Don't waste it.

#329 | Posted by moder8 at 2018-12-05 11:27 AM | Reply

...in Texas, where he did better statewide than any Democrat has in decades"

JFK did pretty well in Texas too. If the scope of Oswald's Carcano was misaligned by a micro-millimeter he could've won re-election in '64.

#330 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2018-12-05 11:29 AM | Reply

has never won public office before

Is every anti-Beto person this ignorant?

#331 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-05 11:34 AM | Reply

#329 | POSTED BY MODER8 AT 2018-12-05 11:27 AM | FLAG:

He's going to be your candidate, and you are going to vote for him before of the D in front of his name. Everything else is irrelevant.

#332 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-05 11:34 AM | Reply

He's going to skateboard out onto a late night's stage and play the guitar with whichever host it is that night. The rest of the Dems are done at that point, none of them are cool.

#333 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-05 11:35 AM | Reply

Trump regardless of how you feel about his start earned his billions.

If "earned his billions" = "inherited daddy's money", then sure. He sure did.

#334 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-05 11:36 AM | Reply

"If Democrats nominate Sully Sullenberger for POTUS"

That's a Democrat I would vote for.

#335 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2018-12-05 11:37 AM | Reply

--He's going to skateboard out onto a late night's stage and play the guitar

Maybe he can do a duet: Bobby on bagpipes and Willie Nelson on guitar.

#336 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-05 11:37 AM | Reply

They already did a duet.

#337 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-05 11:40 AM | Reply

Robert married his money, and has never served as a representative of any kind.

Seriously, are you mentally retarded? He has been a Congressman for six years and was on a city council for six years before that. That's twelve more years of political experience than Trump had when you voted for him.
#320 | POSTED BY JOE

Andreà utilizes the Republican tactic of lie loud and often. That way she spreads misinformation and muddies the narrative.

As it is. She got Moder8 to parrot her lie

The fact that he is a billionaire and has never won public office before are not factors in his favor.
#329 | POSTED BY MODER8

Almost everything Andreà posts is a lie or a half truth.

#338 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-05 11:43 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I was wondering if "Beto hasnt won an election before" was some kind of geriatric talk radio meme.

#339 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-05 11:44 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Almost everything Andreà posts is a lie or a half truth.

#338 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2018-12-05 11:43 AM | FLAG:

He's only worth $9 million, sitting in the top 1/3 of wealth in the Texas House.

That money is primarily from financial/insurance/real estate investments. That's why he is the perfect poster boy to trot out when you have to eminent domain somebody. He's so nice about it.

#340 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-05 11:49 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Beto is a crisis actor! = Andy M.

#341 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-05 11:56 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Truth is, lots and lots of Democrats such as myself really know nothing about this guy O'Rourke. He has one hell of a lot of work to do before you get me waiving a Beto Banner. The fact that he is a billionaire..." - #329 | Posted by moder8 at 2018-12-05 11:27 AM

Beto O'Rourke Rank: 52nd in the House with an estimated net worth of $8,952,012 in 2015.
Only $991,047,988 to go for "the fact" he's a billionaire.

"and has never won public office before..."

El Paso City Council (2005–2011)
U.S. House of Representatives (2012–present)
It is funny, in a sad sort of way, that moder8 used the terms "Truth is..." and "The fact..." in a post devoid of both.

Did someone hack moder8's Retort account?

#342 | Posted by Hans at 2018-12-05 11:57 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#252

Thanks for that, it is, in all honesty, reassuring that behind the partisan blinders that I have perceived you to have slipped on (rightfully or not) that your intellect remains intact.

I get your frustration with those that avidly (and blindly) support Donnie Little Hands, but there are people like me that support some of what he does/has done but disagree with other things, especially his overbearing narcissism and bullying tendencies. I honestly felt the same way about Obama (liked some things he did, hated others) but ended up voting for him for reelection because the positives outweighed the negatives IMHO. This coming election cycle, I will once again vote against Trump, and I hope that the Dems come up with a much more palatable (to me) option than the Anointed One. Otherwise, 3rd party I remain.

I chuckle when the Usual Idiots accuse me of voting for/supporting Trump since to them everything is black and white. To me that is emblematic of their systemic inability to understand policy driven political nuance and exhibits their low wattage blind partisanship.

#343 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-05 12:01 PM | Reply

- everything is black and white.

Apparently there are some people that feel like they supported Charlie Manson when he occasionally helped little old ladies across the street.

Or Kim one days when he didn't starve and torture people to death.

To me that is emblematic of their systemic inability to understand that just because their partisan GOP buttons are pushed occasionally, they should overlook the broader pattern of a President's uniquely intolerable behavior politically, patriotically, legally, and personally.

#344 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-05 12:11 PM | Reply

I get your frustration with those that avidly (and blindly) support Donnie Little Hands, but there are people like me that support some of what he does/has done but disagree with other things, especially his overbearing narcissism and bullying tendencies.
#343 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER AT 2018-12-05 12:01 PM | REPLY

So you like him for his policy but don't care for his personality.

And somehow that's supposed to prove you don't support him?

I see.

#345 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-12-05 12:11 PM | Reply

Sorry for the drunken blogging last night, folks.

There's no reason to apologize. You weren't in any way insulting or offensive.

#346 | Posted by jpw at 2018-12-05 12:13 PM | Reply

You weren't in any way insulting or offensive.

#346 | POSTED BY JPW

Incoherent. Like I said, I hope it at least provided some entertainment value.

#347 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 12:35 PM | Reply

JeffJ was a lot more honest when he was drunk.

Intersting peek behind the curtain.

#348 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-05 12:41 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

JeffJ was a lot more honest when he was drunk....

#348 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Most people are.

In rereading the thread this morning I laughed that it was so obvious to JPW that he asked me what I was drinking and he wasn't being mean about it. He was clearly amused.

#349 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-12-05 12:44 PM | Reply

to me that is emblematic of their systemic inability to understand policy driven political nuance and exhibits their low wattage blind partisanship.

Like a siren call, Dorkus of Naples comes-a-runnin to make my point.

Well done, I guess.

#350 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-05 01:00 PM | Reply

#350

This caricature, and avoiding the point made of your own partisanship, is all that could be predicted from the Pres of Lawyers Sans Arguments.

#351 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-05 01:05 PM | Reply

#351

Translation: I got nuthin, as usual.

#352 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-05 01:12 PM | Reply

NO, I got pointing our your partisan hackery of putting up with Trump because he pushes a few of your GOP buttons.

You got nuthin'.

#353 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-05 01:23 PM | Reply

JeffJ, the part where you called multipliers "left-wing economics" revealed you can't keep yoir biases in check.

It also showed that you don't even realize you can't keep your biases in check.

Here's a more mundane example of a mulitplier: your boy GoNoles misappropriated his government student loans by investing in stocks and earned 5x returns.

Go ask your econ professors for your money back.

#354 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-05 01:38 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#353

Hardly, which was my exactly my point in #343 when I very clearly said "I chuckle when the Usual Idiots accuse me of voting for/supporting Trump".

You just can't help but prove my points for me, can you...

#355 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-05 02:03 PM | Reply

#355

It's understandable that you are embarrassed by your party foisting off such a Pres on us, but it's also obvious that you get a few goodies in the way of inane GOP policy, so you spend most of your time here obfuscating and deflecting for the GOP.... which is now Trump.

Those two things are inseparable in reality.... a place with which you seem less and less familiar.

#356 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-05 02:13 PM | Reply

it's also obvious that you get a few goodies in the way of inane GOP policy, so you spend most of your time here obfuscating and deflecting for the GOP.... which is now Trump.

Once again, proving my point that your posts are "emblematic of their systemic inability to understand policy driven political nuance and exhibits their low wattage blind partisanship."

Keep it up, I got you covered.

#357 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-05 02:17 PM | Reply

Firstly, I never said I do not or will not support O'Rourke. Maybe I will. What I did say is that I, any many other Democrats, don't know anything about him at this point. I didn't even know he'd been in Congress for several terms. The point is, for most of us he is an unknown. He is going to have to show us something over the coming year if he is serious about being the DNC candidate.

#358 | Posted by moder8 at 2018-12-05 02:41 PM | Reply

He hasn't been in Congress. He's in the Texas House.

#359 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-05 02:42 PM | Reply

and it doesn't matter what you think, you're old. Pop culture is behind Beto, not any other Democrat.

#360 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-05 02:42 PM | Reply

- blind partisanship

lol.... no one is so blind as he who will not see.... that you get a few goodies in the way of inane GOP policy, so you spend most of your time here obfuscating and deflecting for the GOP.... which is now Trump.

(Iteration and constant reiteration conveys an alien thought to a recalcitrant mind.)

#361 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-05 02:43 PM | Reply

#358

Beto has a lot more good policy choices and charisma than most, but only Texas House District leadership and City Council experience; had he been able to spend even a short time as a Sen the way Obama did, he'd be a good candidate.

As it is, he'd be a better VP candidate to a left of center Presidential candidate who's not over 70... or nearly 80, and not so far left that they scare the center left.

So, I'm thinking Cadenhead/Beto 2020.

#34 | POSTED BY CORKY

#362 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-05 02:45 PM | Reply

--Iteration and constant reiteration

As demonstrated by reposting one's own posts as in #362

lol

#363 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-12-05 02:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#363

Yes.... perhaps the usage of the quote flew high over your intellectual capabilities, such as they are, Sniperfidian.

361 used it as a good thing, and 362 was an example.

Perhaps you should stick to things you are good at like flagging Mackris, RoCheney and every other lame rwinger's posts here as NW.

#364 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-05 02:55 PM | Reply

#364

I was wondering when Dorkus would have no option but to resort to WFW.

#365 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-05 02:59 PM | Reply

#365

The Caricature Lawyer.... Arguments not an option.

#366 | Posted by Corky at 2018-12-05 03:33 PM | Reply

"and it doesn't matter what you think, you're old. Pop culture is behind Beto, not any other Democrat.
#360 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG"

This is becoming the defining feature of who wins.

Goes back to Clinton playing his sax on whatever late night TV show that was.

Goes back to Nixon's flop sweat debate with Kennedy, from before our time.

I'm sure it goes back further than that.

It's just amplified now.

#367 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-05 03:34 PM | Reply

He couldn't beato Ted friggin' Cruzo. Losero.

#368 | Posted by Spork at 2018-12-05 03:51 PM | Reply

And let's be honest - do you think the Spartacus/Kamala/Pocahontas crowd is going to let a pale face man get the nod? I see many pins being stuck in dolls, and tomahawks flying.

#369 | Posted by Spork at 2018-12-05 03:58 PM | Reply

I read an article about him in the El Paso Times and like what I see. He seems to not mind getting his 'hands dirty' so to speak and meet the people. He eats in burger joints during his travels, and streams live on his facebook page. I dont like that he is for banning "assault weapons" as that is based on the appearance of a gun and not much else. He is for universal background checks which I do like, but again he is against reciprocity for Conceal Carry permits and I would like that, although I agree some states would need to have stronger guidelines. He is pro-veterans in a lot of ways, pro health care, and many other things that are important to me.

It appears so far that if the vote were between him and Trump then Beto would get my vote without a regret. Experience isn't everything and he certainly has more than Trump did. Guess we will see.

#370 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2018-12-05 04:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I'm sure it goes back further than that.

#367 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2018-12-05 03:34 PM | REPLY

For our country it goes back to founding fathers and early American authors, our first pop culture icons. "Assume the Position with Mr. Wuhl" has some hilarious takes on this.

#371 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-05 04:58 PM | Reply

Experience isn't everything and he certainly has more than Trump did. Guess we will see.

#370 | POSTED BY JUSTAGIRL_IDAHO AT 2018-12-05 04:07 PM | REPLY

Him and Trump agree on one thing. The system is rigged and politicians are cheap.

#372 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-12-05 05:07 PM | Reply

It appears so far that if the vote were between him and Trump then Beto would get my vote without a regret. Experience isn't everything and he certainly has more than Trump did. Guess we will see.

#370 | POSTED BY JUSTAGIRL_IDAHO AT 2018-12-05 04:07 PM

I agree 100%, I just don't think that Beto can emerge from the primaries with the nomination. But I also thought that about Trump, and was completely wrong, so as you say, we will see.

#373 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-05 05:11 PM | Reply

I agree 100%, I just don't think that Beto can emerge from the primaries with the nomination. But I also thought that about Trump, and was completely wrong, so as you say, we will see.

#373 | Posted by Rightocenter

That's because trump had hidden masses of closet racists who normally don't vote, but were thrilled to get a chance to vote for white supremacy for the first time. These people don't talk to pollsters.

I doubt Beta has a hidden mass of ashamed supporters like trump does.

#374 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-12-05 05:23 PM | Reply

I doubt Beta has a hidden mass of ashamed supporters like trump does.

#374 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

You are right about that, but after these years of Trump I would bet that there will be record turn out of young voters wanting to protect the dreamers, get stricter background checks for guns, and a universal health care system. We had record turnout for our midterm election so I think we can safely expect more of that.

#375 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2018-12-05 05:47 PM | Reply

We had record turnout for our midterm election so I think we can safely expect more of that.

#375 | Posted by justagirl_idaho

We safely expected hillary to win too. Never relax and think the dems have things under control. They can always be bribed to fail by some donors, or shoot themselves in the foot by playing too much identity politics.

#376 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-12-05 05:52 PM | Reply

I was foolish in 2016. I knew Trump had a chance to win, thought Hilary would likely get it in a close race due to the EC, but thought even if Trump won he couldn't be this bad...

#377 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2018-12-05 06:07 PM | Reply

I never thought Hillary was all that safe.
Especially after the Comey "announcement."

#378 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-05 06:08 PM | Reply

To be precise, her chances looked worse and worse as the election neared.

She looked safe in 2015, sure.

#379 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-12-05 06:10 PM | Reply

Never relax and think the dems have things under control. They can always be bribed to fail by some donors, or shoot themselves in the foot by playing too much identity politics.

#376 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2018-12-05 05:52 PM

Congratulations, Speaksoftly, you have won the Coveted Moment of Clarity Award (tm) for this post!

Well done, and thanks for playing!

#380 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-12-05 06:21 PM | Reply

Congratulations, Speaksoftly, you have won the Coveted Moment of Clarity Award (tm) for this post!

Well done, and thanks for playing!

#380 | Posted by Rightocenter

My moment of clarity came when I realized conservatism was all based in fear and hatred and so I switched parties. It's lasted for several decades now.

#381 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-12-05 06:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Don't know who this guy is, but I like his comment:

Lenny Liebmann @LennyLiebmann

Let's make every election about charisma until we are finally led by a boy-band junta.
7:20 PM - 5 Dec 2018

#382 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-12-05 11:24 PM | Reply

"but thought even if Trump won he couldn't be this bad..."

That's what I thought about W. I knew Trump would be bad. Okay, maybe not separate parents and children at the border bad, but bad.

#383 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-12-05 11:32 PM | Reply

Firstly, I never said I do not or will not support O'Rourke. Maybe I will. What I did say is that I, any many other Democrats, don't know anything about him at this point.#358 | POSTED BY MODER8 AT 2018-12-05 02:41 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

You also posted abject lies about him that you have yet to acknowledge.

He hasn't been in Congress. He's in the Texas House.
#359 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG AT 2018-12-05 02:42 PM | FLAG:

And there'a another lie. Is this going to be the strategy against Beto, or is everyone posting about him just an imbecile?

#384 | Posted by JOE at 2018-12-06 08:52 AM | Reply

orourke.house.gov

"Congressman
Beto O'Rourke
Official website of the
US Representative

for El Paso, TX"

Sitz is too lazy to google it which is sort of dumb.

#385 | Posted by danni at 2018-12-06 09:11 AM | Reply

I will say though, Beto's web site is awful. Why doesn't he get someone to create a decent web site?

#386 | Posted by danni at 2018-12-06 09:12 AM | Reply

"or is everyone posting about him just an imbecile?"

Their attempts to push false ideas just demonstrates that the right wing lunatics are afraid of him.

#387 | Posted by danni at 2018-12-06 09:14 AM | Reply

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