Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Saturday, November 17, 2018

Inflation dictates that the cost of living will continue to rise -- except, it seems, when it comes to renewable energy. The cost of building a new utility-scale solar or wind farm has now dropped below the cost of operating an existing coal plant, according to an analysis by the investment bank Lazard. Accounting for government tax credits and other energy incentives would bring the cost even lower.

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Someone is gonna be ticked off.

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Hagbard Celine I DID IT. I learnt how to properly post a thread all by myself. Aren't you proud of me?? ROFLMMFAO

#1 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-11-17 01:55 PM | Reply

So Trump appoints a former Coal industry CEO to head the EPA! We are living in Crazytown! Trump is the Mayor of Crazytown!

#2 | Posted by danni at 2018-11-17 02:01 PM | Reply

We really shouldn't keep power plants going.....or glowing.......and certainly not gloing.

#3 | Posted by Tor at 2018-11-17 02:17 PM | Reply

Reliability of the system and market stability requires mixed generation, a little bit of everything. But, Nuclear comes with very dangerous long term risks that are being ignored. Right now the solar and wind fraction is so small that it can cover most new construction, phasing in slowly.

#4 | Posted by bayviking at 2018-11-17 04:36 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Don't forget that transportation uses much more energy than current electrical generation.
The switch to electric vehicles will require a more than doubling of generation. Green energy is the future.

#5 | Posted by bored at 2018-11-17 06:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

www.youtube.com

"Your never call, you never write! Ahh! My hand!"

#6 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2018-11-17 09:03 PM | Reply

"Aren't you proud of me??"

Well done, young lady.

#7 | Posted by Hagbard_celine at 2018-11-17 09:17 PM | Reply

#4 History teaches us that nuclear is 99.7% reliable. That's based on the three reactor meltdowns we have already had.

#8 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2018-11-17 09:39 PM | Reply

#8, the only reasonable estimate of lives lost are associated with the Chernobyl disaster at 4000, most from long term effects of radiation exposure. The Three Mile Island and Fukushima disasters casualties have never been reported in anything close to the truth. The USS Ronald Reagan rushed to help Japan after the Fukushima disaster and became so contaminated with radiation that it was subsequently denied portage in Japan and other countries and was forced to return to the USA. Hundreds of sailors subsequently contracted a myriad of health problems which the US Government denies has anything to do with their radiation exposure. Japan has admitted to about 500 radiation exposure related deaths. But the entire Pacific Ocean is now polluted with Fukushima isotopes and that meltdown may permanently contaminate Tokyo's entire water supply. The US government denies people down wind from Nevada above ground testing and Three Mile Island suffered health problems like outbreaks of leukemia. They are lying.

#9 | Posted by bayviking at 2018-11-17 11:14 PM | Reply

And let's not forget the partial core meltdown (this incident is where the term 'China syndrome' was born) at the Fermi 1 nuclear plant South of Detroit, near Monroe, MI, in 1966.

www.freep.com

And I'll bet that until this moment, none of you had ever even heard of Fermi 1 let alone what happened there. My awareness is based on the fact that I'm from Michigan and for a short period of time in the mid-50's I lived only a few miles from where this plant was eventually built. In fact, just a few months before they started to fuel the reactor core, me and my family had a chance to tour the nearly finished facility. My cousin was working as a technician for one of the electrical contractors and he arranged the tour, which included not only visiting the control room, but also a chance to go inside the containment building itself. This was in early 1962 when I was 14 years old. Back then, nuclear power was the 'wave of the future' and in the case of this particular nuclear plant, it was going to produce more nuclear fuel than it consumed (read the article above for details), a sort of miracle of technology that was going to produce electricity for nearly a zero net-cost, or at least that was the story that was being told at the time.

#10 | Posted by OCUser at 2018-11-17 11:57 PM | Reply

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There's a book about that called "We Almost Lost Detroit."

#11 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-11-18 12:34 AM | Reply

Coal and nuclear plants supply half of the US's power. Wind and solar have to be able to reliably produce that much power before they can be shut down. No coal or nuclear plants will be shut down before their natural life span is completed. Wind and solar will not be ready even then, gas fired co-generation plants will have to be built to cover the gap. Environmental concerns may stop the fracking needed to produce the gas. I foresee dark times ahead.

#12 | Posted by jdmeth at 2018-11-18 12:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Coal and nuclear plants supply half of the US's power. Wind and solar have to be able to reliably produce that much power before they can be shut down. No coal or nuclear plants will be shut down before their natural life span is completed. Wind and solar will not be ready even then, gas fired co-generation plants will have to be built to cover the gap. Environmental concerns may stop the fracking needed to produce the gas. I foresee dark times ahead.

POSTED BY JDMETH AT 2018-11-18 12:03 PM | REPLY

Your ignorance of the subject matter is duly noted.

www.independent.co.uk

People in Germany essentially got paid to use electricity on Christmas.

Electricity prices in the country went negative for many customers - as in, below zero - on Sunday and Monday, because the country's supply of clean, renewable power actually outstripped demand, according to The New York Times.

How this happens
The phenomenon is less rare than you may think.

Germany has invested over $200 billion in renewable power over the last few decades, primarily wind and solar. During times when electricity demand is low - such as weekends when major factories are closed, or when the weather is unseasonably sunny - the country's power plants pump more electricity into the grid than consumers actually need.

#13 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-11-18 12:11 PM | Reply

"And I'll bet that until this moment, none of you had ever even heard of Fermi"

A bet you'd lose. I'd bet that many of the posters here are familiar with his name and his accomplishments and some to a fare more in depth level than you have.

#14 | Posted by danni at 2018-11-18 12:37 PM | Reply

"Don't forget that transportation uses much more energy than current electrical generation."

But it also uses the energy much less efficiently.

#15 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-11-18 12:42 PM | Reply

And at some point during times of peak demand and low winds brownouts and blackouts will occur. Unlike Germany there are no neighboring countries to ship in more power. Canada's hydro is already maxed out.

#16 | Posted by jdmeth at 2018-11-18 01:12 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

#16 | POSTED BY JDMETH

Oh my god if only we have a cheap energy storage solution where we move water up a hill.

#17 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2018-11-18 03:32 PM | Reply

However, You need coal for power when the wind does not blow and the sun does not shine.

#18 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-11-18 05:05 PM | Reply

learnt

#1 | Posted by LauraMohr

Where are you from?

#19 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-11-18 05:07 PM | Reply

Learned vs. learnt

Learned is the more common past tense and past participle of the verb learn. Learnt is a variant especially common outside North America. In British writing, for instance, it appears about once for every three instances of learned. In the U.S. and Canada, meanwhile, learnt appears only once for approximately every 500 instances of learned, and it's generally considered colloquial.

#20 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-11-18 05:08 PM | Reply

Don't forget that transportation uses much more energy than current electrical generation.
The switch to electric vehicles will require a more than doubling of generation. Green energy is the future.

#5 | Posted by bored

Green energy ain't gonna cut it.

#21 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-11-18 05:10 PM | Reply

#9 | Posted by bayviking

The Three Mile Island never caused anything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks to a movie it scared the crap out of a lot of people.

I was in NC loading 2 emergency generators on 2 rail cars Right after that happened, where were you, pooping your diaper?

#22 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-11-18 05:16 PM | Reply

#10 | Posted by OCUser

From the article!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There were no injuries or hazardous radiation released,

#23 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-11-18 05:19 PM | Reply

Oh my god if only we have a cheap energy storage solution where we move water up a hill.

#17 | Posted by IndianaJones

It is called 'pumped storage'. It has been around for a long time.

#24 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-11-18 05:22 PM | Reply

DANNI, I was NOT talking about the Italian scientist, but rather the nuclear plant named after him, but you would have known that if you had read the ENTIRE sentence:

"And I'll bet that until this moment, none of you had ever even heard of Fermi 1 let alone what happened there."

OCU

#25 | Posted by OCUser at 2018-11-18 05:29 PM | Reply

Texas has more wind farms than anyone else in the country, they work well about 70% of the time. The remainder of the time is when demand is at it's highest. Late Summer and the very coldest part of winter. No wind when we have a stationary high pressure system. BTW, most of our power plants use natural gas. We have our own power network too.

#26 | Posted by docnjo at 2018-11-18 06:22 PM | Reply

Most new nonrenewable power plants built today are natural gas fired turbines, favored because of low capital cost and low emissions. Coal and nuclear power plants are all aging power systems which require massive capital investments, long lead times and come with environmental risks from heavy metal and radioactive emissions. After decades of delays and cost overruns in the USA no utility would ever consider a nuclear power plant. But France has a better track record and produces 73% of its electricity from nuclear power compared to 19% in the USA. In the USA it is the most expensive technology without ever accounting for waste management costs involving periods of time much longer than civilized human history. The Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant nearly doubled PG&E's electrical rates when it was brought on line.

Most renewable power plants built today are wind farms, because advances in synchronization with the grid have made them increasingly cost effective under variable wind conditions. Its presently about 6% of US utility generation, biomass is 5%, hydro is 7.5%, Solar is only .024% even though three large steam driven plants have been built in the Southwest. In Iceland, Italy and the California geothermal also plays a role.

#27 | Posted by bayviking at 2018-11-18 10:19 PM | Reply

4 History teaches us that nuclear is 99.7% reliable. That's based on the three reactor meltdowns we have already had.

#8 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

Only three meltdowns? Not bad! And it's only gonna to take 40 years to clean up Fukushima. The cost is incalculable. So fortunately no one knows how much it will cost. So no worries!

Though I'd hate to see their electric bills once the cleanup costs are passed on to the customers.

#28 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-11-19 11:07 AM | Reply

Wind farms are fine [just read about Texas], but another source of electric generation will always be necessary as the wind does not always blow; just as for solar the sun does not always shine. It's just what type generation to be chosen, whether natural gas, coal, or nuclear. [Hydo is pretty much maxed out in those areas where prevalent.

#29 | Posted by MSgt at 2018-11-19 12:26 PM | Reply

Wind farms are fine [just read about Texas], but another source of electric generation will always be necessary as the wind does not always blow; just as for solar the sun does not always shine.

Stop thinking like a Trump Humper.

We don't need to save coal jobs like we didn't need to save stable jobs when cars came along. There are plenty of jibs in the solar and wind industries. And much better and more healthy jobs,too.

As for solar cells not generating electricity on cloudy days:

Some critics of solar power say that solar panels don't produce electricity on cloudy days. This claim is false. Solar panels can still can produce 10–25% of their typical output on a cloudy day. Obviously, this amount is much less than during periods of direct sunlight, but it is not nothing.

Also, there are there are the Tesla Powerwall batteries and other systems just like it.

Also, there are the new hydrogen generators that are becoming cheaper all the time.

Put a hydrogen generator at your home and solar on your roof and you can disconnect from the grid. At a Powerwall just to be sure and never worry about your power going out in an emergency again.

#30 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-11-19 01:03 PM | Reply

oops.. italics off plz!

#31 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-11-19 01:04 PM | Reply

I did the math for a solar setup for my new house build. It would have been $40k and taken 13 years to pay itself off, but the shelf life for the components is only 10. Not quite worth it yet, sticking with wind energy.

#32 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-11-19 03:03 PM | Reply

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