Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Saturday, November 10, 2018

The US does not have anything resembling open borders, and no major politician in the US wants to have open borders. But Fabio Rojas does want open borders, and on the latest episode of the Future Perfect podcast, he tells us why. Rojas, a sociology professor at Indiana University Bloomington, is part of a small but growing movement of libertarians and leftists who are questioning the need for any restrictions on entering the United States.

Advertisement

More

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

I think many here want open borders. Sadly many don't realize that many of the "huddled masses" would include drug mules and MS13 members. Not all of them would be the hardworking migrants so many envision. No there would be many violent criminals coming to hurt you and your family.

#1 | Posted by byrdman at 2018-11-10 11:59 PM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

"No there would be many violent criminals coming to hurt you and your family."

At a higher rate, or lower rate than the folks who are already here?

#2 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-11 12:00 AM | Reply

Danforth why would you want to add any additional violent criminals when we don't have to? To answer your question though I would say probably close to the same.

#3 | Posted by byrdman at 2018-11-11 12:04 AM | Reply

"Danforth why would you want to add any additional violent criminals when we don't have to?"

If you have a 10% violent rate, and the violent rate of the newbies is 1%, are you making your country worse again, or making you country great again by letting in the newbies?

#4 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-11 12:09 AM | Reply

#3 For illegal immigrants the crime rate is much, much higher. They say 1/4th of all federal prisoners are illegal immigrants, and you don't get to be a federal prisoner just for border crossing or getting a car-jacking charge....

#5 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2018-11-11 12:14 AM | Reply

Remember, these people come from countries with a murder rates 20x ours and much worse for other crimes....

#6 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2018-11-11 12:15 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If you have a 10% violent rate, and the violent rate of the newbies is 1%, are you making your country worse again, or making you country great again by letting in the newbies?

#4 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2018-11-11 12:09 AM |

Sounds great until actual people are harmed by some of these so called newbies. Adding additional poverty to our country isn't going to solve anything. If what helium says is true it sounds like we are going to be adding many many more to the ranks of violent criminals in America.

#7 | Posted by byrdman at 2018-11-11 12:19 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

"Sounds great until actual people are harmed by some of these so called newbies. "

While 99 times the people will be doing good, and expanding the economy.

"If what helium says is true it sounds like we are going to be adding many many more to the ranks of violent criminals in America."

Helium is a Nazi idiot. But I repeat myself.

#8 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-11 12:30 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Remember, these people come from countries with a murder rates 20x ours"

You're lying. That's a lie. There is no country on earth with a consistent murder rate 20x the USA's rate.

Are you woefully uninformed, or stupid? I'll be a gentleman, and let you decide.

More importantly, where are you getting this lie, why do you trust that source, and are you going to keep trusting that source or not?

#9 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-11 12:37 AM | Reply

"For illegal immigrants the crime rate is much, much higher."

Lie.

#10 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-11 12:39 AM | Reply

Advertisement

Advertisement

Keep in mind, the "crime rate" for illegal immigrants is "higher" because each has at least one to begin with. And many others can be tacked on without interaction with a victim; just...breathing, on this piece of earth, versus that piece of earth.

#11 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-11 12:56 AM | Reply

Many prominent Democrats have also condemned Trump's calls for a more selective, skills-based immigration system, suggesting that this approach is not just ill-advised but offensive, too. Yet an estimated 56 percent of recent legal immigrants have incomes below 250 percent of the federal poverty level. If favoring immigrants with higher earning potential is deemed unacceptable, we can expect that proportion to rise. The bill for redistribution will rise with it.

www.postandcourier.com

#12 | Posted by byrdman at 2018-11-11 01:00 AM | Reply

Unfortunately, at the moment, most immigrants and children of immigrants are not moving up the economic ladder. When they don't do that, as Salam shows, they become stuck in ethnic enclaves. When they remain poor and only around other poor immigrants from their own ethnic backgrounds, not only do they not assimilate into America's melting pot, but they also start forming grievances against their new host country. That's a dangerous proposition not only for the American economy, but also for the American identity.

One of the key factors that contributes to this situation is that most immigrants are low-skilled workers who have traditionally been welcomed into our economy by those seeking cheap labor. However, as Salam shows throughout this book, low-skilled workers are less and less needed, as our modern economy shifts to automation and off-shoring of labor becomes a more likely proposition.
thefederalist.com

#13 | Posted by byrdman at 2018-11-11 01:02 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Sounds great until actual people are harmed by some of these so called newbies. Adding additional poverty to our country isn't going to solve anything. If what helium says is true it sounds like we are going to be adding many many more to the ranks of violent criminals in America.

Posted by byrdman at 2018-11-11 12:19 AM | Reply

Geez and to think you're from my neck of the woods too. Helium don't know squat and apparently neither do you. All they want is a better life. Something this country readily advertises.

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

#14 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-11-11 01:03 AM | Reply

"Yet an estimated 56 percent of recent legal immigrants have incomes below 250 percent of the federal poverty level"

1. The time frame of stats like this can be cherry-picked to death.
2. 250% of the federal poverty rate? So almost half (44%) came here with nothing, and have already worked themselves out of poverty?
3. 250% of the poverty rate, for one person, is $31,220. Hardly a burden on society.

#15 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-11 01:07 AM | Reply

I think many here want open borders. Sadly many don't realize that many of the "huddled masses" would include drug mules and MS13 members. Not all of them would be the hardworking migrants so many envision. No there would be many violent criminals coming to hurt you and your family.

Posted by byrdman at 2018-11-10 11:59 PM | Reply

MS13 is homegrown. It wasn't created outside of the USA.

#16 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-11-11 01:08 AM | Reply

Laura they are economic refugees that are a tremendous drain on the economy. We cannot afford to allow the world's poor to immigrate here. It would break our social safety net.

#17 | Posted by byrdman at 2018-11-11 01:09 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"that are a tremendous drain on the economy."

Lie.

#18 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-11 01:10 AM | Reply

"We cannot afford to allow the world's poor to immigrate here."

No one ever suggested otherwise.

#19 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-11 01:11 AM | Reply

Laura are we a sovereign nation or not? If we allow this caravan to enter we are not. It means can disobey our laws at will.

#20 | Posted by byrdman at 2018-11-11 01:12 AM | Reply

Laura they are economic refugees that are a tremendous drain on the economy. We cannot afford to allow the world's poor to immigrate here. It would break our social safety net.

Posted by byrdman at 2018-11-11 01:09 AM | Reply

BS They actually boost the economy not hurt it. As a matter of fact our economy is heavily dependent upon illegal immigration. Without it our crops would not get picked.

#21 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-11-11 01:13 AM | Reply

Fears of the US being overrun with immigrants should we liberalize our immigration laws seem overstated, but the long-term economic benefits of doing might be less than promised as well.

www.aei.org

#22 | Posted by byrdman at 2018-11-11 01:13 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Unchecked immigration would not be a boost to this country. We don't need millions of crop pickers. Eventually automation will replace them and then what do we do with all those uneducated poor? Are you going to take care of them?

#23 | Posted by byrdman at 2018-11-11 01:15 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

American Enterprise Institute REALLY Brydman??

#24 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-11-11 01:15 AM | Reply

"Unchecked immigration would not be a boost to this country. "

Who TF is suggesting unchecked?

"We don't need millions of crop pickers."

Why are you creating strawmen? NO ONE has suggested open borders. Or at least no one who's not a blithering idiot.

#25 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-11 01:19 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Unchecked immigration would not be a boost to this country. We don't need millions of crop pickers. Eventually automation will replace them and then what do we do with all those uneducated poor? Are you going to take care of them?

Posted by byrdman at 2018-11-11 01:15 AM | Reply

You haven't got a freaking clue how stupid you are.

www.forbes.com

The Law Of Unintended Consequences: Georgia's Immigration Law Backfires
By Benjamin Powell

To forgo a repeat of last year, when labor shortages triggered an estimated $140 million in agricultural losses, as crops rotted in the fields, officials in Georgia are now dispatching prisoners to the state's farms to help harvest fruit and vegetables.

The labor shortages, which also have affected the hotel and restaurant industries, are a consequence of Georgia's immigration enforcement law, HB 87, which was passed last year. As State Rep. Matt Ramsey, one of the bill's authors, said at the time, "Our goal is ... to eliminate incentives for illegal aliens to cross into our state."

Now he and others are learning: Be careful what you wish for, because you may get more than you bargained for.

#26 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-11-11 01:19 AM | Reply

Why are you creating strawmen? NO ONE has suggested open borders. Or at least no one who's not a blithering idiot.

#25 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

I haven't created any strawmen. I posted an article from a University Prof and activist who says we should have open borders. I think many on this board want to have open boarders. Maybe not you but many others want it.

#27 | Posted by byrdman at 2018-11-11 01:24 AM | Reply

" I posted an article from a University Prof and activist who says we should have open borders. "

No you didn't. Did you even read the article before you linked it?

"I think many on this board want to have open boarders."

I think you're crazy. Name five.

NO ONE wants completely open borders. And personally speaking, I don't want my tax dollars wasted by sending thousands of unneeded troops to our southern border, especially to face an invasion that will never occur.

#28 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-11 01:32 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Rojas, a sociology professor at Indiana University Bloomington, is part of a small but growing movement of libertarians and leftists who are questioning the need for any restrictions on entering the United States.

Immigration to the US, open borders advocates argue, raises most native-born Americans' incomes, promotes innovation by increasing our pool of skilled entrepreneurs and inventors, and hasn't led to major problems with assimilation. "Migrants create jobs because they have to eat, which means they have to buy stuff from the supermarket. They have to drive a car, which means they have to go to the gas station," Rojas explains. "So in the same way that a person from Indiana doesn't steal a job from a native of Chicago, a person from Mexico doesn't steal a job from a person in California."

Danforth what does that say?

Name 5 who support open borders.

Based on comments I have read. I would say. Snoofy, Boyd, Laura, TFD, and I will round it out with clown

#29 | Posted by byrdman at 2018-11-11 01:37 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Many people who post here are way and I mean way out of the mainstream.

#30 | Posted by byrdman at 2018-11-11 01:39 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

" is part of a small but growing movement"
"Danforth what does that say?"

It says he's one, and it's growing into two. Maybe three.

"I would say. Snoofy, Boyd, Laura, TFD, and I will round it out with clown"

NONE of those people support 100% open borders. Why the radical break with reality?

#31 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-11 01:42 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Many people who post here are way and I mean way out of the mainstream."

Well, if you claim many people here want open borders, and many people here are out of the mainstream...

...doesn't that undermine the article's suggestion it's somehow gaining momentum?

#32 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-11 01:44 AM | Reply

...doesn't that undermine the article's suggestion it's somehow gaining momentum?

#32 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2018-11-11 01:44 AM

LOL it is gaining momentum especially among the leftists on this board.

#33 | Posted by byrdman at 2018-11-11 01:49 AM | Reply

right on. (op article excerpt)

#34 | Posted by ichiro at 2018-11-11 01:49 AM | Reply

www.farminguk.com

Scientists develop automated robotic crop-picker amid worker shortage

This will be our saving grace one day

#35 | Posted by byrdman at 2018-11-11 01:51 AM | Reply

Scientist wont stop at robotic crop pickers. Manufacturing jobs are going away.

#36 | Posted by bored at 2018-11-11 03:13 AM | Reply

BYRDMAN

Well, nobody picks cotton by hand these days and it isn't because of worker shortage.

Automation enhances profits.

#37 | Posted by Twinpac at 2018-11-11 07:04 AM | Reply

Scientist wont stop at robotic crop pickers. Manufacturing jobs are going away.

Every job that can be automated will be automated, maybe not today or tomorrow but in 20 years? I can even conceptualize an automaton who could do my job and that is a tough one to automate.

I'm torn on open borders. As a libertarian intellectually I think open borders are a good thing, however as a laborer emotionally I think limits on immigration are needed. I'm not worried so much about the crime as how many people can we support as a nation without lowering the overall standard of living.

#38 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2018-11-11 08:04 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"LOL it is gaining momentum especially among the leftists on this board."

You keep claiming that, without a shred of proof.

#39 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-11 10:50 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I think many here want open borders."

Who wants that?

#40 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-11-11 10:52 AM | Reply

The article cites ONE "activist" that few, if any, have ever heard of.

"I think many here want open borders."

That's because you're an idiot.

#41 | Posted by Angrydad at 2018-11-11 03:43 PM | Reply

"It would break our social safety net."

LOL!

Republicans have been trying to do just that since 1935.

#42 | Posted by Angrydad at 2018-11-11 03:50 PM | Reply

I like how Danforth is so brainwashed and stupid he can't even look up the murder rate in Guatemala (20x) or Mexico (10x, but that's only the ones that get counted, because their politicians cover it up for their cartel masters.)

Never change Danforth. You are my new emotional support pig :)

"No borders! No Wall! No USA at all!" - AntiFa.

#43 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2018-11-11 04:28 PM | Reply

"he can't even look up the murder rate in Guatemala (20x)"

Feel free to link proof.

"Mexico (10x)"

Which isn't 20x, like your claim.

"their politicians cover it up for their cartel masters."

Again, feel free to link to proof.

""No borders! No Wall! No USA at all!" - AntiFa."

Not me.

But it's fascinating: you're yet another in a long line who believe to attack me, you must first pretend I support Antifa.

#44 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-11 04:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#43 | Posted by HeliumRat

Childish nonsense.

Grow up, son.

#45 | Posted by Angrydad at 2018-11-11 04:44 PM | Reply

--No borders! No Wall! No USA at all!" - AntiFa.

Not just an antifa slogan, but heard at a lot of pro-illegal migrant protests.

#46 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-11-11 04:45 PM | Reply

"I like how Danforth is so brainwashed and stupid he can't even look up the murder rate in Guatemala (20x)"

You're such a liar.
data.worldbank.org

I'd already looked it up: that's why I called you a liar earlier. Now, here's proof.

I guess this would make you "brainwashed and stupid".

#47 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-11 04:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"... you must first pretend I support Antifa."

New idiot tactic: accuse people who disagree with you of being Antifa supporters.

#48 | Posted by Angrydad at 2018-11-11 04:49 PM | Reply

"brainwashed and stupid".

That would be an improvement.

#49 | Posted by Angrydad at 2018-11-11 04:50 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I think many here want open borders. Sadly many don't realize that many of the "huddled masses" would include drug mules and MS13 members. Not all of them would be the hardworking migrants so many envision. No there would be many violent criminals coming to hurt you and your family.

#1 | Posted by byrdman

First off, who is it here that wants open borders? Don't "think", tell us who.

Second, whenever I read these sorts of pants pissing posts I can't help but wonder if you're posting from the most vanilla suburbia hell in the land.

#50 | Posted by jpw at 2018-11-11 04:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I haven't created any strawmen...I think many on this board want to have open boarders. Maybe not you but many others want it.

#27 | Posted by byrdman

LOL

#51 | Posted by jpw at 2018-11-11 05:03 PM | Reply

. I think many on this board want to have open boarders. Maybe not you but many others want it.

#27 | Posted by byrdman at 2018-11-11 01:24 AM | Reply

I LOVE open boarders. The stain or varnish soaks in the wood better for

#52 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-11-11 05:05 PM | Reply

I think many on this board want to have open boarders. Maybe not you but many others want it.
#27 | Posted by byrdman at 2018-11-11 01:24 AM | Reply

I LOVE open boarders. The stain or varnish soaks in the wood better for better protection

#53 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-11-11 05:06 PM | Reply

I think many on this board want to have open boarders. Maybe not you but many others want it.
#27 | Posted by byrdman at 2018-11-11 01:24 AM | Reply | Flag:

Byrdman hates people who ride skate boards

#54 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-11-11 05:42 PM | Reply

"We cannot afford to allow the world's poor to immigrate here."

No one ever suggested otherwise.

#19 | Posted by Danforth

Actually, most liberals have. And I see nothing to suggest otherwise. The author of the piece did.

Good post Byrdman and good arguments.

#55 | Posted by boaz at 2018-11-12 08:26 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

" most liberals have."

Reread the claim. "The world's poor". You're talking about 100% open borders. No one being taken seriously believes in 100% open borders.

#56 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-12 10:53 AM | Reply

-- No one being taken seriously believes in 100% open borders.

Except for Hatter and Clownshack, two retorters who want no limits on mass migration.

#57 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-11-12 10:59 AM | Reply

"Except for Hatter and Clownshack"

And no one making rules, or laws, are taking Hatter's or Clownshack's suggestions/feelings seriously.

#58 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-12 11:04 AM | Reply

"No one being taken seriously believes in 100% open borders."

You don't need to be for 100% open borders to be lumped in with those people. It's like when the NRA claims they don't believe in anarchy when it comes to guns. Technically they don't, but effectively it's perceived by many people as close enough.

#59 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-11-12 12:31 PM | Reply

"Technically they don't, but effectively it's perceived by many people as close enough."

IOW they don't, but that ruins your talking point, so you're going to pretend otherwise.

#60 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-12 12:43 PM | Reply

Do you want to be self righteous or do want to win elections? You can't do the latter if you're expressing yourself in a way that allows others to effectively paint you as something you're not.

#61 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-11-12 01:16 PM | Reply

"in a way that allows others to effectively paint you as something you're not."

Oh hell, Republicans long ago abandoned truth as an election issue. If they're going to lie about you anyway, why not express yourself honestly?

Pretty much every Dem was accused of being for crime, murder, and illegals overrunning the country.

#62 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-12 01:19 PM | Reply

Except for Hatter and Clownshack, two retorters who want no limits on mass migration.

I'm also pro abortion and limits on family size.
.

#63 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-11-12 02:11 PM | Reply

--limits on family size.

How do you plan to achieve that? A Maoist one-child policy?

#64 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-11-12 02:19 PM | Reply

"How do you plan to achieve that? A Maoist one-child policy?"

Who breeds more, rich people or poor people?

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-11-12 02:20 PM | Reply

How do you plan to achieve that?

Once I find the infinity gauntlet and all the gems, it will be a snap.

#66 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-11-12 02:23 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

You can't have it both ways. If Republicans can be lumped in with racists and fascists for not explicitly denouncing them strong enough, then the same is true for Democrats when they fail to condemn anarchists and wannabe marxists (i.e. the open borders crowd).

#67 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-11-13 12:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Comments are closed for this entry.

Home | Breaking News | Comments | User Blogs | Stats | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Privacy | Copyright 2019 World Readable

Drudge Retort