Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, November 09, 2018

At least five people have been killed and more than 150,000 evacuated as two big wildfires rage in California, officials say. West of Los Angeles, the Woolsey Fire has jumped a major highway and is now threatening coastal areas, including the town of Malibu.

More

Alternate links: Google News | Twitter

Further north near Sacramento, the five victims were found in cars in a town that was destroyed by the Camp Fire. Both fires are moving fast, fanned by strong winds.

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

Wildfires are as common as sunshine or earthquakes in California. Back in the 70s we used to drive up to the top of dead end streets at the base of the foothills and have fire-watching parties.

#1 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-11-09 09:38 PM | Reply

You ever think about heading up there in your mobility scooter, for old time's sake?

#2 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-11-09 09:40 PM | Reply | Funny: 5

Stupid climate change.

#3 | Posted by Tor at 2018-11-09 09:45 PM | Reply

--Stupid climate change.

Nothing to do with it. This is regularly scheduled business as usual.

#4 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-11-09 09:47 PM | Reply

Speaking of regularly scheduled,

Current climate models for forests and rangelands predict that California will soon be experiencing many changes as a result of climate change. These include increased wildfire frequency and intensity; longer fire seasons; declines in distribution, productivity and health of conifers and some range species; changes in ecosystems, wildlife habitat and populations; potential increases in drought, insects and disease in Southern California; and increased spread of invasive species. www.calfire.ca.gov

#5 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-11-09 09:50 PM | Reply

Why link the BBC?

If you want to see what's going on, here is KTLA for the latest.

I have 10 clients who have had to evacuate, at least 2 are wondering if they still have a home to return to.

#6 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-11-10 12:08 AM | Reply

"Why link the BBC?"

He probably heard you like the BBC.

#7 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-11-10 12:45 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

#7

rofl... that's what I heard, too.

#8 | Posted by Corky at 2018-11-10 12:46 AM | Reply

"I have 10 clients who have had to evacuate, at least 2 are wondering if they still have a home to return to."

Damn. They must be flapping like crazy.

#9 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-11-10 12:47 AM | Reply | Funny: 2

"Nothing to do with it. This is regularly scheduled business as usual."

Yeah, except we keep having "biggest fire in history" events year after year. I talked to the local wildfire fighters in my area of southern California, the Santa Ana mountains lost more than 50% of their wild lands during all of the fires we have had here in the last year. The air quality is approaching pre-regulation gasoline levels at times.

Totally business as usual. Totally.

#10 | Posted by dibblda at 2018-11-10 12:56 AM | Reply

"The air quality is approaching pre-regulation gasoline levels at times."

The bride and I were with friends in Monterey and Paso Robles recently, and three of the four of us ended up with bad coughs by the end of the week.

#11 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-10 01:00 AM | Reply

--#10 | Posted by dibblda

Baloney. The only reason there is more property destruction and injuries is population growth. The barren foothills I observed in flames during the 70s are now filled with subdivisions.

#12 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-11-10 01:03 AM | Reply

"The only reason there is more property destruction and injuries is population growth."

Is that the only reason for migratory birds moving northward as well?

#13 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-10 01:06 AM | Reply

Slash and Burn...

It's how we drove the Indians out of the Amazon...

It's how we'll get drive the Anglo's out of California...

To make room for our Caravans...

Viva la Raza!

#14 | Posted by Pegasus at 2018-11-10 09:41 AM | Reply

So what does our president do in response to this tragedy?

Why, he wakes up in Paris and fires off an angry tweet threatening to cut federal funds because of California's poor forestry management.
That's your leader, Republicans!

abcnews.go.com

#15 | Posted by cbob at 2018-11-10 10:24 AM | Reply

"Baloney. The only reason there is more property destruction and injuries is population growth. "

That is part of the reason but far from the only one. Historic levels of drought and massive heat waves are a big player.

#16 | Posted by dibblda at 2018-11-10 11:45 AM | Reply

Wildfires are as common as sunshine or earthquakes in California. Back in the 70s we used to drive up to the top of dead end streets at the base of the foothills and have fire-watching parties.

#1 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

The question isn't whether fires a new phenomena.

The question is why is the fire season getting longer, drier and the amount of readily available fuel higher.

#17 | Posted by jpw at 2018-11-10 12:42 PM | Reply

Nothing to do with it. This is regularly scheduled business as usual.

#4 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

No, it's not you ignorant ----.

psmag.com

Instead of sneeringly denying it why don't you actually make an effort to educate yourself on it.

#18 | Posted by jpw at 2018-11-10 12:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

--psmag.com

Environmental extremists. Their headline is unscientific fear mongering to promote their agenda.

#19 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-11-10 12:54 PM | Reply

"Their headline is unscientific fear mongering"

What is the political slant of the migratory birds? What about the trees, what's their bent?

And what about HALF OF ALL SPECIES:
news.nationalgeographic.com

#20 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-10 12:58 PM | Reply

Environmental extremists. Their headline is unscientific fear mongering to promote their agenda.

#19 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Jesus H you're stupid.

Even the fire fighting officials agree that that's the driver.

Which is why you have no argument other than to state your opinion as fact.

#21 | Posted by jpw at 2018-11-10 01:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Environmentalist Policies Are Exacerbating Wildfires. It's Time to Rethink Forest Management.

www.dailysignal.com

#22 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-11-10 01:12 PM | Reply

You do realize it's not an either or, right?

That changes because of climate change might dictate changes to management?

#23 | Posted by jpw at 2018-11-10 01:23 PM | Reply

Practically every Church in neighboring counties has evacuees now living in them.

And the Republican response is to claim California and Californians are to blame for this.

#24 | Posted by Tor at 2018-11-10 01:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

www.dailysignal.com

#22 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

"It is published by The Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank. The Daily Signal has very strong right wing bias in reporting and wording."

mediabiasfactcheck.com

He's just All Crap Rwing Sourced Posts All the Time now.

#25 | Posted by Corky at 2018-11-10 05:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#25 | Posted by Rubles at 2018-11-10 05:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Time for another episode of "Slaughter the Source," the only arrow in this poster's puny quiver.

#26 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-11-10 05:32 PM | Reply

--psmag.com
Environmental extremists. Their headline is unscientific fear mongering to promote their agenda.
#19 | Posted by nullifidian

Slaughter the Source indeed. LOL.

#27 | Posted by bored at 2018-11-10 05:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

#28 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-11-10 05:57 PM | Reply

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

#28 | Posted by nullifidian

They hypocrites excuse is always to whine about the other's hypocrisy.

#29 | Posted by jpw at 2018-11-10 06:22 PM | Reply

I'm amazed no didn't say that the people deserve to lose their homes. After all they live in California.

#30 | Posted by Tor at 2018-11-10 06:28 PM | Reply

- the only arrow in this poster's puny quiver.

Facts, dummy. Keep posting fake news from rwing publishers like the freaking Heritage Foundation and you deserve what you get.

Maybe you should read the LA Times instead, rofl!

"The current wildfires, which have killed nine people and consumed nearly 400,000 acres of woodland, destroyed 1,100 homes and forced the evacuation of thousands of residents, are among the worst in the state's history.

They're unrelated to water supplies or environmental laws."

www.latimes.com

#31 | Posted by Corky at 2018-11-10 08:31 PM | Reply

Now up to 25 dead. We can have bad fire seasons in MT, but we can rely on winter to snuff out the fires.

Nulli, you have some good points. People continue to expand development into forested lands, increasing the risk of death and property loss due to wildfire. I am not familiar with best management practices for land owners living in forested areas in CA, but I have heard their activity is limited due to CA law (e.g., thinning, removing lower branches, brush removal etc.). Is this correct?

We also have 100+ years of fire suppression, removal of old growth forest which were more resilient to wildfire, and limited logging operations (largely thanks to the misguided efforts of "environmentalists"). So, yeah, environmental policies are part of the problem. I should note concerning Trump's comments blaming CA, and as Gal noted in the other fire thread, the vast majority of forested land in CA are managed by the US forest service.

But disregarding climate change as a primary driver of increased wildfire activity has little scientific base as far as I know. The research has shown that observed decreases in both the total summer precipitation amounts and the number of rain days is the primary driver of area burned by wildfire (Holden et al., 2018, PNAS). We also see increases in vapor pressure deficit from spring to fall over much of the western US, including California (Ficklin and Novick, 2017, JGR.). Vapor pressure deficit can be thought of as the atmosphere's ability to dry the land surface but also works to disrupt the physical processes which drive precipitation.

Also interesting (but unfortunate and hinted at by Snoofy in #5) is the expected transition of forested land to savannah or grassland moving into the future due to wildfire and climate change. While mature conifers can somewhat tolerate reduced precipitation and increased vapor pressure deficit, seedlings are much more sensitive. So, when stands experience large disturbance like wildfire, mature trees burn and are replaced by seedlings which can't survive the current climate. So they are replaced by vegetation more suited to dryer conditions (i.e., grasses, shrubs and likely invasive species) (Simeone et al., 2018).

Sorry for linking to scientific papers where only the abstract is available (I wish scientific publications were more accessible to the public, but I digress). This research is relatively new and has not been modified via media for public dissemination. But you get the point.

#32 | Posted by horstngraben at 2018-11-11 12:02 PM | Reply

--Nulli, you have some good points. People continue to expand development into forested lands, increasing the risk of death and property loss due to wildfire.

It's too bad that environmentalists stopped talking about the 800-pound gorilla in the room, population growth. Wonder why that is. It exacerbates just about every social and environmental problem one could name, including global warming.

#33 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-11-11 12:40 PM | Reply

It's too bad that environmentalists stopped talking about the 800-pound gorilla in the room, population growth.

Population growth is definitely a problem. But what do we do about it? And who decides?

#34 | Posted by horstngraben at 2018-11-11 01:18 PM | Reply

Good luck, Horst.

He'll just slaughter your sources and move the goal posts.

For him it's just about bitching about leftists and environmentalists, not actually becoming knowledgeable on the topic.

#35 | Posted by jpw at 2018-11-11 03:25 PM | Reply

Good luck, Horst.

He'll just slaughter your sources and move the goal posts.

For him it's just about bitching about leftists and environmentalists, not actually becoming knowledgeable on the topic.

I don't need others to tell me what some poster is going to post. Besides, most of nullifidian's responses are in kind. Then the rest of you pile on and label him a nazi or tumpster or whatever is the current fad. It's why I don't make a habit of posting here.

#36 | Posted by horstngraben at 2018-11-11 03:45 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

It's too bad that environmentalists stopped talking about the 800-pound gorilla in the room, population growth.

Unless you're suggesting these fires are arson, I'm not sure what the population has to do with them.

You could be implying increased population is responsible for climate change, but you're not:

Stupid climate change.

Nothing to do with it. This is regularly scheduled business as usual.
#4 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN


Nah. You're just spinning your typical xenophobic nonsense.

#37 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-11-11 04:01 PM | Reply

Nothing to do with [climate change]. This is regularly scheduled business as usual.
#4 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

It exacerbates just about every social and environmental problem one could name, including global warming.
#33 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN


Are there multiple people posting under your username, or are you confused?

It has nothing to do with climate change, but it could be global warming?

Go hit the bong again.

#38 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-11-11 04:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

--Population growth is definitely a problem. But what do we do about it? And who decides?

Good question. For politicians more residents mean more taxes, and for business more consumers and profits. That's why we have been encouraging population growth my entire life in California. I remember admiring the Oregon governor in the 70s. Thought we should do the same.

"Referring to Oregon's tourist industry in a 1971 speech, McCall may have first publicly voiced his famous "Come visit, don't stay" slogan: "I urge them to come and come many, many times to enjoy the beauty of Oregon. But I also ask them, for heaven's sake, don't move here to live.""

#39 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-11-11 04:13 PM | Reply

Besides, most of nullifidian's responses are in kind.

LOL

Then the rest of you pile on and label him a nazi or tumpster or whatever is the current fad.

Well yes, the nazi thing is pretty stupid.

#40 | Posted by jpw at 2018-11-11 04:14 PM | Reply

Well yes, the nazi thing is pretty stupid.

It would be stupid. Were he not so xenophobic.

#41 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-11-11 04:25 PM | Reply

"That's why we have been encouraging population growth my entire life in California." - #39 | Posted by nulliquisling at 2018-11-11 04:13 PM

Most people do not need to be encouraged to ---.

It is designed that way.

#42 | Posted by Hans at 2018-11-11 04:28 PM | Reply

#39 | Posted by nullifidian

Ha! I remember in the 90s when local Montana news was pushing our inherent earthquake activity in order to dissuade Californians from moving here. We used to have colder winters which also worked to ward off the masses, but winters have been trending towards milder.

The smugness of incoming "liberals" who bring with them the two different barbecues (one for vegetarian and one for meat) is a bit much. Locals feel like the "progressives" leave home and move here because where they come from sucks, but then they come here and try to make things just like home. So, Montana people entrench themselves in "conservatism". It is a shame, but I understand.

#43 | Posted by horstngraben at 2018-11-11 04:44 PM | Reply

--but winters have been trending towards milder.

I hope so. I would love to live in Montana.

#44 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-11-11 04:49 PM | Reply

I hope so. I would love to live in Montana.

Best time to visit is the late spring and early fall. Other than that, ---- off you damn Californian.

#45 | Posted by horstngraben at 2018-11-11 04:52 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"winters have been trending towards milder."

It's political!>
~Nulli

#46 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-11 04:53 PM | Reply

"...the two different barbecues..." - #43 | Posted by horstngraben at 2018-11-11 04:44 PM

Two?

Sounds like people in Montana are clueless about barbecue.

#47 | Posted by Hans at 2018-11-11 04:56 PM | Reply

--Other than that, ---- off you damn Californian.

That's what I will say, if I'm lucky enough to be the last Californian to move to Montana.

#48 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-11-11 05:00 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"...the two different barbecues..." - #43 | Posted by horstngraben at 2018-11-11 04:44 PM

First, there are the different sauces:

Eastern North Carolina Vinegar Sauce
Piedmont or Lexington-Style Dip
South Carolina-Style Mustard Sauce
Texas-Style Mop or Basting Sauce
Kansas City-Style Sauce
Alabama White Sauce
Then there are the styles:
MEMPHIS
What it is: This town's big on pork, whether it's in rib or pulled form, and usually uses a dry rub that includes garlic, paprika, and other spices. The meat's cooked in a big pit, and's typically served with a tangy, thin tomato-based sauce. How Marc Cohn still managed to sing that song about this city between bites of BBQ is truly remarkable.

NORTH CAROLINA
What it is: Divided between Lexington-style and Eastern-style, both camps agree that the meat (typically pork) should be brushed with a spice-and-vinegar mixture while cooking and served with a ketchup-based sauce. Eastern proponents use the entire pig when BBQing, and Lexington tends to use just the pork shoulder or ribs.

SOUTH CAROLINA
What it is: Pretty similar to the North Carolina style in terms of the meat used, except, in mid-state, the sauce is usually mustard-based, and includes brown sugar and vinegar.

KANSAS CITY
What it is: Kansas City goes for the gusto -- no meat is off-limits (owing to the city's status as a meatpacking hub), and it's all cooked super-slow and super-low, preferably over hickory wood. The sauce is most commonly a thick, sweet molasses-and-tomato concoction that sticks to ribs of both animal and man. (try the burnt ends!)

CENTRAL TEXAS
What it is: Highly influenced by Czech and German immigrants, Central Texas has a huge number of meat markets that serve heaping portions of brisket and ribs smoked over pecan or oak wood. Meat is king here, and sauce and sides are treated as secondary elements. Also, Kreuz Market popularized its sausage, which is considered the gold standard of sausage around the country.

EAST TEXAS
What it is: Composed of pretty much equal parts beef and pork, East Texas BBQ is chopped instead of sliced and served between two buns with a butt-ton of hot sauce. It's got more in common with other Southern BBQ styles than with Central Texas.

ALABAMA
What it is: A kind of between-the-extremes barbecue style influenced by both Texas and Carolina, Alabama tends to skew toward meaty sandwiches filled with pulled pork (or chicken) and cole slaw. The one true emblem of this style is the white sauce, a mayonnaise-and-vinegar mixture that can be found all over the state, and probably all over everyone's faces, too.

Slightly more than "two"

#49 | Posted by Hans at 2018-11-11 05:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

And pecan is sounded out as pe'cahn. Not PEE CAN like the northerners like to do.

#50 | Posted by madscientist at 2018-11-11 05:06 PM | Reply

Sounds like people in Montana are clueless about barbecue.

Probably true.

Slightly more than "two"

No, I mean two different barbecue apparatus so the meat doesn't contaminate the vegetarian.

#51 | Posted by horstngraben at 2018-11-11 05:06 PM | Reply

"No, I mean two different barbecue apparatus so the meat doesn't contaminate the vegetarian." - #51 | Posted by horstngraben at 2018-11-11 05:06 PM

Just like the principles of kashrut.

Besides, Meathead Goldwyn of AmazingRibs.com recommends different grills for seafood and non-seafood dishes. He says that the oils released from grilling/smoking seafood, especially fish, can adhere to the surfaces of the grill or smoker, "contaminating" the taste of other foods.

Maybe the people in Montana could learn a thing or two about grilling and smoking.

Oh, and no one I know calls a grill or smoker "barbecue apparatus."

#52 | Posted by Hans at 2018-11-11 05:17 PM | Reply

Maybe the people in Montana could learn a thing or two about grilling and smoking.

Yes, the grilling and smoking is awful. Plus, we're landlocked, so no seafood. Everyone is conservative and its a horrid place to live. But the late-spring and early-fall is beautiful, especially in Glacier or Yellowstone. Come check it out, but leave by winter because the winter sucks.

#53 | Posted by horstngraben at 2018-11-11 05:23 PM | Reply

But the late-spring and early-fall is beautiful, especially in Glacier or Yellowstone.

I drove the Bitterroot valley and stayed in Hamilton for two days in early June a few years ago.

Almost called my wife and told her she was moving to Hamilton because it was too beautiful to leave.

#54 | Posted by jpw at 2018-11-11 05:29 PM | Reply

I would love to live in Montana.
#44 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

I would love for you to live in Montana as well.

#55 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-11-11 07:55 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I drove the Bitterroot valley...

Nice down there... Clark Fork as well.

#56 | Posted by REDIAL at 2018-11-11 08:25 PM | Reply

Comments are closed for this entry.

Home | Breaking News | Comments | User Blogs | Stats | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Privacy | Copyright 2018 World Readable

Drudge Retort