Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, November 07, 2018

"I've just been denied entrance to the WH," Acosta tweeted. "Secret Service just informed me I cannot enter the WH grounds for my 8pm hit." Acosta posted a video of a Secret Service officer removing his pass. "I was just told to do it," the officer said on the recording. "I am now giving my hard pass to the Secret Service," Acosta said. Reporters who regularly cover the White House are routinely granted "hard passes" to ease entry and exit to the White House grounds. It is unclear whether Acosta will be granted some other sort of entry pass for his work. But on Wednesday night, he was turned away at the gate.

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Donald Trump always seeks revenge.

#1 | Posted by Zed at 2018-11-07 09:40 PM | Reply

ridiculous. unpresidential. unamerican.

Trump.

#2 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-11-07 09:42 PM | Reply

Donald Trump is a bag of ----.

#3 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-11-07 09:43 PM | Reply

Violation of the 1st Amendment. PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!

#4 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-11-07 09:48 PM | Reply

Peter Baker @peterbakernyt

If this is a decision by the White House because it doesn't like the coverage, it's the first time I can remember this happening to any reporter since I started covering the White House more than 22 years ago. Very bad sign.

#5 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-11-07 09:51 PM | Reply

Laura,

This is a BAD thing. It's something Acosta's peers need to rally behind him 1000%. It does NOT violate the 1st Amendment. Having said that, this is absolutely outrageous and I am pissed off about it.

This is going to rightly result in some major backlash, some of it bipartisan, and is going to make Trump look like a bigger fool than he already is, and that is truly amazing.

#6 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-07 09:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

This is a BAD thing. It's something Acosta's peers need to rally behind him 1000%. It does NOT violate the 1st Amendment. Having said that, this is absolutely outrageous and I am pissed off about it.

This is going to rightly result in some major backlash, some of it bipartisan, and is going to make Trump look like a bigger fool than he already is, and that is truly amazing.

Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-07 09:54 PM | Reply

It absolutely is a violation of the 1st Amendment. In order to have a free press it needs access to our governments leaders. It is a check on the government. When it is blocked it violates that check.

#7 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-11-07 10:05 PM | Reply

Government isn't socialism.

A welfare state isn't socialism.

Socialism is when the state controls the means of production. It always fails. Always. And it's been tried on numerous occasions over the past century.

Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-07 10:03 PM | Reply

Public Roads socialism
Public Schools socialism.
Public Fire and police protections socialism.

#8 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-11-07 10:08 PM | Reply

If you watch the video, you can see he doesn't touch her. She tries several times to grab the mic from his hands, but he won't let it go. She didn't touch him; he didn't touch her:

Jim Acosta @Acosta

Jim Acosta Retweeted Sarah Sanders
This is a lie.

Sarah Sanders @PressSec

President Trump believes in a free press and expects and welcomes tough questions of him and his Administration. We will, however, never tolerate a reporter placing his hands on a young woman just trying to do her job as a White House intern...
4:48 PM - 7 Nov 2018

#9 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-11-07 10:09 PM | Reply

#8 | Posted by LauraMohr

Utter nonsense. I'm tired of trying to educate you clowns who know nothing about the theory and history of capitalism/socialism/marxism/communism. It's just a waste of time.

#10 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-11-07 10:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

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Laura,

What Nulli said.

#11 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-07 10:12 PM | Reply

Thread already posted.

#12 | Posted by gracieamazed at 2018-11-07 10:12 PM | Reply

Oops. I stand corrected. She touches him several times:

Kaivan Shroff @KaivanShroff

Replying to @Acosta
Slow motion video showing White House staffer touches Acosta FOUR times -- he never gets physical with her.

Video here:
twitter.com

#13 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-11-07 10:13 PM | Reply

Sander's is a lying sack of scheiße. She's reaching lower lows every day.

#14 | Posted by YAV at 2018-11-07 10:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Laura,

What Nulli said.

Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-07 10:12 PM | Reply

When you take nullifidian's side you lose. He has no credibility here if you haven't been paying attention.

#15 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-11-07 10:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It absolutely is a violation of the 1st Amendment. In order to have a free press it needs access to our governments leaders. It is a check on the government. When it is blocked it violates that check.

#7 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

Members of the press are prohibited from sitting in on national security meetings and intelligence briefings.

This isn't unconstitutional but it's flagrantly wrong. Obama tried the same thing with Fox early in his first term and the response was vicious to a point where the administration back-tracked. The press needs a similar response to this - it needs to happen immediately and it needs to be harsh. If Acosta is who CNN wants to represent them in the pool then he absolutely belongs there. I am in almost complete agreement with you on this.

#16 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-07 10:16 PM | Reply

Oh and let's not forget when government bails out corporations. Socialism.

#17 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-11-07 10:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

When you take nullifidian's side you lose. He has no credibility here if you haven't been paying attention.

#14 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

It's not about taking a side. He's right about this. You are fundamentally ignorant about what socialism actually is. This is a subject he has studied extensively going back decades.

The only reason he has "no" credibility here is because he is no longer embracing the approved strain of politics. He's an apostate in these parts.

#18 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-07 10:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Members of the press are prohibited from sitting in on national security meetings and intelligence briefings.

Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-07 10:16 PM | Reply

This isn't one of those times you intellectually dishonest hackjobs. This was a press briefing. Can you stick to what is cogent at the moment for once??

#19 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-11-07 10:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"This is a subject he has studied extensively going back decades."

So he likes to claim while spouting the same stupid talking points the rest of you barely literate rightists consume daily from the AM radio disinformation sphere. I've never seen a hint of this alleged scholarship of his.

#20 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-11-07 10:24 PM | Reply

#15 I am almost with you. But there is protocol and there is respect. If they let every reporter use up their time, ask their quota of questions and refuse to pass the Mike to the next reporter there needs to be consequences or the press conferences would be a free for all.

I would not have revoked his security clearance but I would have made him sit in the back of the room for a week and tell CNN to send someone else for the week to ask questions.

That staffer was trying to do her job and defuse the situation, maybe that would teach him decorum. Acosta refused to quit.

#21 | Posted by gracieamazed at 2018-11-07 10:26 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

It's worth stating twice what a pathetic man child Trump is.

#22 | Posted by jpw at 2018-11-07 10:29 PM | Reply

Then the staffer needs to learn not to assault reporters (or anyone for that matter).

#23 | Posted by YAV at 2018-11-07 10:32 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Trump spent that presser treating the press like -----. Nothing new there. So much for decorum. Trump has none. He's the horrible human being, and he's going to burn this country to the ground, if need be, to save himself and his kids. And all the deluded, Kool-Aid drinking Trumpers are going to make excuses and cheer him on.

#24 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-11-07 10:34 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

He's certainly representing the right country.

#25 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-11-07 10:35 PM | Reply

He's the "horrible human being" he accuses others of being. #Projection

#26 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-11-07 10:37 PM | Reply

#22 Got any links of you protesting when Obama was insulting Fox News? Democratic president (Obama) did more than complain. His administration at times took action against the cable network. The Obama Justice Department surveilled one of Fox News' reporters, and a White House spokesman acknowledged excluding Fox News from interviews.

Here is the reminder:
www.factcheck.org

#27 | Posted by gracieamazed at 2018-11-07 10:40 PM | Reply

--He's an apostate in these parts.

No one is hated by ideologues--religious or political--more than an apostate.

Madeline Albright once expressed this mentality with her "there is a special place in hell for women who don't vote for Hillary." Same holds true for black conservatives who are viciously attacked by white leftists.

#28 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-11-07 10:42 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Fox News isn't news. It's rightwing propaganda. Now more than ever.

#29 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-11-07 10:44 PM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 4

The white house should refuse access to the makeup artist that gave the orange bag of ---- his reverse raccoon eyes today.

#30 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-11-07 10:45 PM | Reply

I can flag your posts as funny too, Gracie. Wheee! It's so fun.

#31 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-11-07 10:46 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#25

Poor Dulli. He is just so oppressed!
/snark

#32 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-11-07 10:49 PM | Reply

#26 Congrats. You win the Retort post of the day for the left. You should call Nielsen and others and tell them that they are doing ratings wrong. Because a radical left wing anonymous Internet warrior is smarter than everyone else.

#33 | Posted by gracieamazed at 2018-11-07 10:51 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#26 Your so vain I know the first thing you do when a post of yours is flagged is run to the stats page. It's funny to watch.

#34 | Posted by gracieamazed at 2018-11-07 10:52 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Me "a radical left wing" anything? Hardly. But, I suppose, to someone who has attended 4 Trump rallies, reality is hard to identify.

#35 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-11-07 10:55 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

LOL The smell of desperation is in the air. Thanks for playing.

#36 | Posted by gracieamazed at 2018-11-07 10:56 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Oh and let's not forget when government bails out corporations. Socialism.

DRtarded post of the day, and that is saying something.

You clearly have no idea what socialism is...maybe one of my anklebiters, Fortune Cookie Lenin, can give you a sound bite or two.

#37 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-11-07 10:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You are the one who thinks she is smarter than everybody, Gracie. Well, smarter than all us dumb, radical left wing liberals anyway. If you are smelling desperation, perhaps you should shower more often.

#38 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-11-07 10:58 PM | Reply

#24 Gracie,

The only reason I brought up the Obama-Fox thing was to illustrate how the press unified to push back. They need to do the same thing with this. This is not about Gal choosing sides.

#26 Gal,

Fox is no more propaganda than CNN or MSNBC.

That all of these outlets have become more partisan doesn't change the fact that they shouldn't be dismissed from the press pool.

#39 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-07 10:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Oh and let's not forget when government bails out corporations. Socialism."

Don't call it socialism, Laura, if it makes the word police go crazy. Call it corporate welfare instead!

#40 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-11-07 11:00 PM | Reply

"Fox is no more propaganda than CNN or MSNBC."

Yes, it is when it runs with things like the Seth Rich murder story for weeks on end.

#41 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-11-07 11:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

You clearly have no idea what socialism

This is funny.

The gaslighting continues.

#42 | Posted by YAV at 2018-11-07 11:02 PM | Reply

--Don't call it socialism, Laura, if it makes the word police go crazy. Call it corporate welfare instead!

People who make up ad-hoc definitions of terms that have a well understood historical meaning aren't interested in honest discourse.

#43 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-11-07 11:11 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 3

--Yes, it is when it runs with things like the Seth Rich murder story for weeks on end.

Michael Avenatti was on CNN-DNC 82 times in 3 months.

#44 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-11-07 11:23 PM | Reply

"Socialism is when the state controls the means of production."

Or when the state has a monopoly on the activity.

Roads, police, public schools....

#45 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-07 11:29 PM | Reply

Avenatti was a guest on CNN as opposed to Hannity and Carlson, who both pushed the Rich story, who are employed by Fox News and are on 5 nights a week.

#46 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-11-07 11:50 PM | Reply

That's not Socialism and you know it, Danforth.

With your example we only have Government and Anarchy - nihilism.

Garbage removal is not socialism. Jesus. I now understand why Laura is so confused and why so many DR lefties go ballistic when it is correctly pointed out that enforced socialism utterly destroyed Venezuela. Tp be fair, plenty of conservatives falsely attribute stuff to socialism as well. Social Security is not socialism.

#47 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-07 11:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Spin, spin, spin is you got.

#48 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-11-07 11:54 PM | Reply

44 | Posted by JeffJ

Are you sure he knows it? It's not the first time he's posted that BS.

#49 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-11-07 11:57 PM | Reply

Gal,

Avenetti was given celebrity status when it was all Stormy. Why has the media gone silent regarding Swetnick? She forcefully alleged that a SCOTUS nominee was involved in a serial gang-rape train. She submitted a written statement supposedly under oath.

*crickets* from our news media. Absolute crickets.

Her allegations were entered into SJC hearings by Senator Feinstein. She was the ranking member for the Democratic Party for that committee at the time. yet, all of this immediately goes away?

All of a sudden the MSM has ZERO desire to pin her down? Joe the Plumber received a media colonoscopy for asking candidate Obama a question regarding wealth redistribution that Obama fielded poorly. It was a campaign-gaffe. The media reaction was to destroy the person who asked Obama the question that prompted a bad and embarrassing answer.

#50 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-08 12:07 AM | Reply

Are you sure he knows it?

Yes. He's really smart.

It's not the first time he's posted that BS.

#46 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

He's trolling.

#51 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-08 12:10 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Garbage removal is not socialism. Jesus. I now understand why Laura is so confused and why so many DR lefties go ballistic when it is correctly pointed out that enforced socialism utterly destroyed Venezuela. Tp be fair, plenty of conservatives falsely attribute stuff to socialism as well. Social Security is not socialism.

Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-07 11:54 PM | Reply

You lie like the proverbial rug. What's killing Venezuela isn't socialism. It's our continued meddling into their country's affairs and trying to force the duly elected leaders out of power IE our attempted coup on Hugo Chavez. Not to mention the piss poor quality of their crude oil nobody wants cause it's so bad.

#52 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-11-08 12:16 AM | Reply

Laura,

Their poor quality of crude is no different now than it was pre-Chavez when Venezuela was one of the most prosperous countries on South America.

The problem here is your fundamental ignorance of what socialism actually is.

#53 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-08 01:05 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Their poor quality of crude is no different now than it was pre-Chavez ...

I was more saddened by the state's inability to operate the infrastructure it nationalized.

#54 | Posted by et_al at 2018-11-08 01:44 AM | Reply

The problem here is your fundamental ignorance of what socialism actually is.

Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-08 01:05 AM | Reply

No dear I know what socialism is. Your ignorant of what is causing Venezuela's problems and none of it is socialism you partisan hackjob.

#55 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-11-08 06:37 AM | Reply

That's not Socialism and you know it, Danforth.

Remember this when the "Right" talks about socialized health care, welfare, or how Obama was a "socialist," or any of the myriad of examples of tagging everything they don't like with "socialism" or "socialist." The right is "Socialist this!" Socialist that!" "That's socialism!"

Now all of a sudden they know what "Socialism" really is.

They're lying now, or they've been lying for years.

#56 | Posted by YAV at 2018-11-08 07:15 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

They're lying now, or they've been lying for years.

POSTED BY YAV AT 2018-11-08 07:15 AM | REPLY

What's galling is when Jeff declares Obama a socialist when he is not. Jeff hath become a partisan hackjob through and through. Sad to see but there it is.

#57 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-11-08 07:38 AM | Reply

Press passes are granted, not granted, or revoked at the pleasure of the administration. Remember when Obama denied press passes to three newspapers because they had been mean to him?

#58 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2018-11-08 07:44 AM | Reply

Laura probably thinks the USSR was Utopia.

#59 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-08 08:00 AM | Reply

I'm not desperate. Everyone I voted for is in office or will be soon. All the amendments I voted YES for passed. It gave me pleasure to see all the people Obama stumped for lost. I invested wisely and will live comfortable the rest of my life. I live a full life that includes showers and pedicures. Poor Gal. I'll pray for you dear, bless your heart.

#60 | Posted by gracieamazed at 2018-11-08 08:08 AM | Reply

Laura probably thinks the USSR was Utopia.

Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-08 08:00 AM | Reply

There he goes again. Deflecting from the subject at hand. I think I'd keel over dead if he stuck with the subject in discussion.

#61 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-11-08 08:12 AM | Reply

Wow.
Had a whole night to mull over what to post, and that's the first thing you came up with and the first person you addressed?
Gal owns you.

#62 | Posted by YAV at 2018-11-08 08:21 AM | Reply

Jim Acosta has stopped trying to report the news and is instead trying to make himself the story. His 'hot mic' slip up during the Singapore summit should have led to his firing and perhaps even imprisonment. He has become a disruption to the press events and needed to be booted for a long time.

With the Dems taking the House, the gloves are finally coming off for Trump and this is just the beginning. He know, 100% knows, that nothing he does will appease the Democrats or press to the point that they will treat him fairly. So, why would the press expect him to put any effort in trying to appease them when, 1.) it won't, and 2.) his base prefers it when he calls them out as fake news? This is just the tip of the iceberg - we are finally going to get the combative Trump that we elected.

#63 | Posted by moveon_2020 at 2018-11-08 08:24 AM | Reply | Funny: 3

#57

What a coincidence. I shower too.

#64 | Posted by Zed at 2018-11-08 08:59 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

#60

Rat. Corner. Aggression.

Sure. I agree with you.

#65 | Posted by Zed at 2018-11-08 09:00 AM | Reply

Every member of the Press Corps should boycott Trump. The White House lied about Acosta putting his hands on that woman and is just trying to rid itself of reporters who ask questions of importance.

#66 | Posted by danni at 2018-11-08 09:04 AM | Reply

"I agree with you.
#62 | POSTED BY ZED"

How does it feel to be right for the first time in your life?

#67 | Posted by moveon_2020 at 2018-11-08 09:07 AM | Reply

"Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play."
Joseph Goebbels

#68 | Posted by SomebodyElse at 2018-11-08 09:09 AM | Reply

#47 I assumed the reason no one is following up on Swetnick is because Kav is on the court, so her story is now a moot point, and because Grassley referred her to be investigated for lying. Also, because the news cycle has moved on to countless other stories since then. I'm not saying that's how it should be, but once Kav was confirmed, everyone, including Trump, moved on to new shiny objects and real tragedies. FWIW, I saw her interview on NBC when they first aired it. To me, she didn't have the credibility that Ford had. The story she told on camera wasn't quite the same as the one Avenatti had claimed she reported.

#69 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-11-08 09:24 AM | Reply

That's not Socialism and you know it, Danforth."

Nonsense. Try opening up your own police force, and see what happens.

#70 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-08 09:26 AM | Reply

I was more saddened by the state's inability to operate the infrastructure it nationalized.

#51 | POSTED BY ET_AL

Psst - Don't let Laura know that is socialism.

#71 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-08 09:27 AM | Reply

Danforth,

If I understand you correctly - you define any and all government as socialism.

#72 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-08 09:28 AM | Reply

"his base prefers it when he lies to them."

FTFY.

#73 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-08 09:29 AM | Reply

" The right is "Socialist this!" Socialist that!" "That's socialism!""

Exactly what the left does: roads, bridges, garbage collection, libraries, etc. are all socialist!

"Public Roads socialism
Public Schools socialism.
Public Fire and police protections socialism.

Posted by LauraMohr"

If the left doesn't like the right inaccurately using the word "socialist" they should start using it correctly themselves.

#74 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-11-08 09:29 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

He's trolling.

#48 | Jeffj

Guess he wasn't.

#75 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-11-08 09:32 AM | Reply

"you define any and all government as socialism."

Many parts are socialistic compartments of a capitalistic society. Any area where the government controls it, competitors aren't allowed, and the government isn't operating it on a for-profit basis, is a type of socialism.

For example, how is a library not socialistic?

#76 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-08 09:33 AM | Reply

"Exactly what the left does: roads, bridges, garbage collection, libraries, etc. are all socialist!"

Feel free to explain how all of us pooling our money to build free roads isn't a socialistic aspect of a capitalistic society.

#77 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-08 09:37 AM | Reply

Guess he wasn't.

#70 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Apparently.

#78 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-08 09:38 AM | Reply

This is unreal.

Nulli, do you have the patience to address this?

#79 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-08 09:39 AM | Reply

Everything is socialist!

--Mohr, Danforth, Danni and most "progressives"

Why does the right call us socialists? It's a dirty iie!

--Yav

The hilarity continues. TFF

#80 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-11-08 09:43 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#75 That deserves a NW but it also made me laugh...tough decision.

#81 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-08 09:46 AM | Reply

--Nulli, do you have the patience to address this?

Not really. Done this a hundred times and am tired of hitting my head against a wall of invincible ignorance.

"It turns out, though, that the "Denmark is awesome!" talking point is only the second most preposterous one socialists (and people who don't understand what the word means) have adopted. There's a more vacuous, and more prevalent, argument that posits if you're a fan of "roads, schools, libraries, and such" you are, even if you don't know it, a supporter of socialism.

For one thing, we enjoy these state services because we enjoy an unprecedented wealth fostered by free markets. Every penny of the $21,206 spent every year on every single student, rich or poor, in Ocasio-Cortez's district is dependent on profits derived from capitalism. There is no welfare system, no library or museum, that subsists on good intentions. Having the state take over the entire health-care system can rightly be called a socialistic endeavor, but pooling your local tax dollars to put books in a building is called local government."
thefederalist.com

#82 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-11-08 09:47 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"do you have the patience to address this?"

All I need is one clear answer.

#75

I take that as having no answer to my direct question in #72.

#83 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-08 09:49 AM | Reply

#78 see #77

#84 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-08 09:50 AM | Reply

Dan Rather
‏Verified account @DanRather

News the White House pulled Jim @Acosta's credentials is not an attack on one journalist but all of the press. There should be complete solidarity. This is a moment for any Republican who says they believe in the Constitution to stand up.
9:14 PM - 7 Nov 2018

#85 | Posted by qcp at 2018-11-08 09:51 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The clear answer is government does not automatically translate to socialism.

#86 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-08 09:52 AM | Reply

Dan Rather
‏Verified account @DanRather
News the White House pulled Jim @Acosta's credentials is not an attack on one journalist but all of the press. There should be complete solidarity. This is a moment for any Republican who says they believe in the Constitution to stand up.
9:14 PM - 7 Nov 2018

#80 | POSTED BY QCP

Amen to that. And on topic too. NW.

#87 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-08 09:52 AM | Reply

Sanders has shared a doctored (by infowars) video of the incident on twitter to justify the WH's actions.

www.huffingtonpost.com

#88 | Posted by qcp at 2018-11-08 09:55 AM | Reply

"#78 see #77"

#77 makes my claim: We have socialistic aspects of our capitalistic society. You're pretending there is only one or the other.

"Having the state take over the entire health-care system can rightly be called a socialistic endeavor, but pooling your local tax dollars to put books in a building is called local government.""

What a silly conclusion, pretending a takeover is different based on the size of the government doing it.

#89 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-08 10:32 AM | Reply

-Nulli, do you have the patience to address this?

God help him.

most here don't have the balls to go nose to nose with him on this issue. They have the lack of guts to throw spit wads from the back row but that's about it.

why?

Nulli understands what socialism is as he's clearly studied it formally.
Nulli doesn't use the term "socialism" as a dirty word. He's more objective about it.

#90 | Posted by eberly at 2018-11-08 10:34 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Danforth,

Socialism isn't = ALL government.

Until you, or Laura for that matter, demonstrate an understanding of that fact this discussion is counter-productive.

#91 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-08 10:37 AM | Reply

" government does not automatically translate to socialism."

I agreed, and limited it to obvious examples. Not all government is socialism. That said, there are certainly aspects which are decidedly not capitalistic.

#92 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-08 10:39 AM | Reply

You can call funding a fire department, jail or a public school a "socialistic endeavor" if you want. The point is that it's still funded by local tax payers who generated the tax revenue in a regulated capitalistic society.

And while it's not a straight line, basically, the more successful someone has been in this society...the more they have paid to fund the school, jail, fire department, etc.....

taking over healthcare is different than building a library in so many ways.

#93 | Posted by eberly at 2018-11-08 10:40 AM | Reply

-That said, there are certainly aspects which are decidedly not capitalistic.

no, but they are assuredly funded from capitalistic output.

#94 | Posted by eberly at 2018-11-08 10:41 AM | Reply

"Nulli understands what socialism is as he's clearly studied it formally."

I studied that as well: it's where the government controls the means of production. It's also where the collective does together what it disallows to the public. For, example, can you create your own police force?

If you're claiming a national health care system is socialistic, I agree. If you believe we mostly have a capitalistic system for health care, I agree. If you believe it's suddenly not socialistic if your local government takes it over, you're silly.

#95 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-08 10:45 AM | Reply

"they are assuredly funded from capitalistic output."

Of course. I've never claimed otherwise.

"You can call funding a fire department, jail or a public school a "socialistic endeavor" if you want."

You wouldn't call it capitalistic.

#96 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-08 10:46 AM | Reply

"Ocasio-Cortez is making a very typical, if very wrong, surface level argument that socialism -- "democratic" or otherwise -- equates to "any involvement by the government at all, for any reason, and in any way."

This, of course, is not what socialism actually is. Taxation is not socialism. Government spending is not socialism. These things have literally existed in every nation in world history, in both socialistic and laissez-faire capitalistic societies, since the dawn of human civilization.

The ideology that Ocasio-Cortez continually claims to advocate is actually very different. At its core, socialism is about social ownership of the means of production. Democratic socialists want to institute supposed "democratic management" of the various economic institutions created under their utopian vision. The bedrock American concepts of private property, and private ownership of business are typically things that a democratic socialist would seek to eliminate. They often claim to the contrary, but taking "social ownership" of the means of production typically means using centralized state authority to claim that ownership for "the people" before that same central authority then disburses it.

www.themainewire.com

Some "democratic socialists" are very hardcore about this, and want to "abolish profit" Sanders and Cortez on the other hand, seem to be talking about just expanding the welfare state. Higher taxes. More programs. In other words, the Democrat platform on steroids.

#97 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-11-08 10:52 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#97 - you really should take this up with Hannity, Limbaugh, Fox News' commentators and guests, and almost every Republican politician in Congress and the Senate.

#98 | Posted by YAV at 2018-11-08 11:00 AM | Reply

-You wouldn't call it capitalistic.

I don't know what to call it, really.

#99 | Posted by eberly at 2018-11-08 11:06 AM | Reply

I was more saddened by the state's inability to operate the infrastructure it nationalized.

#51 | POSTED BY ET_AL

Psst - Don't let Laura know that is socialism.

#71 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-08 09:27 AM | Reply

No it's not you cretin

en.wikipedia.org

Nationalization is to be distinguished from "socialization", which refers to the process of restructuring the economic framework, organizational structure, and institutions of an economy on a socialist basis. By contrast, nationalization does not necessarily imply social ownership and the restructuring of the economic system. By itself, nationalization has nothing to do with socialism, having been historically carried out for various different purposes under a wide variety of different political systems and economic systems.[3] However, nationalization is, in most cases, opposed by laissez faire capitalists as it is perceived as excessive government interference in, and control of, economic affairs of individual citizens.

#100 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-11-08 11:16 AM | Reply

People who make up ad-hoc definitions of terms that have a well understood historical meaning aren't interested in honest discourse.
#43 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

^
Tell me what "open borders" means.
And tell me if ours is.

#101 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-11-08 11:21 AM | Reply

#100

Laura, here is something that is simple enough for you to understand. If you look at the left side of the graphic, you will see a Capitalist economy like the US. If you look at the right side of the graphic you see a Socialist economy like Venezuela.

One succeeds, one fails.

Guess which one is which?

Economicshelp.org: Capitalism vs Socialism

#102 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-11-08 11:46 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I don't know what to call it, really."

Socialistic endeavor is fine; same thing I'm saying, really: Our capitalist society has aspects of socialism, where we all pool our resources to create positive aspects of our society. We could have a capitalistic police force, all toll roads, and fees to check out library books; instead, we socialize those aspects.

But it's not all or nothing. Medicare for all would be Socialism; provider companies would still be capitalistic. Market forces alone could necessitate single-payer, since less workers will be paying for more retirees. The end result is the insurance industry would have to shrink and reorganize (like they'll be doing for car insurance), and the US would see costs more in line with the world, where a smaller percentage of GDP could cover a much larger percentage of the populous and deliver better measurable results.

Of course, we'd have to negotiate drug prices, too, something both parties have failed to do when in power. It's a crime 30 million can't get the same (or better) group discount as 30.

#103 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-08 12:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

After witnessing Trump get extremely rude with the press it should be remembered that he has always been that way with all members of his own sycophant administration.

That said, Acosta pushed her arm down after it crossed into his space. That staffer did not use any force other than extreme rudeness.

Trump claims that Acosta is a rude and terrible and should treat people that way - in the same breath claiming asylum seeking women and children walking hundreds of miles to a "better" future are an invasion force.

How strange that the news corp laughed at Acosta being defended. Enemy of each other seems more appropriate.

#104 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2018-11-08 12:36 PM | Reply

#103 Danforth,

Well stated. We are on the same page.

#105 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-11-08 12:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Too bad you won't vote for anything on that page, JeffJ.

Instead you support vouchers that save money by... not covering the full cost.

#106 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-11-08 12:51 PM | Reply

" If you look at the right side of the graphic you see a Socialist economy like Venezuela."

Cuz we all know Venezuela is typical of all nations that have a socialist compnonet to their economy as do we here in the U.S. Such an absolutely stupid comparison as to be laughable.

#107 | Posted by danni at 2018-11-08 12:52 PM | Reply

#103 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-08 12:28 PM

I agree with JeffJ: Well stated.

Part of the confusion rests with the idea known as a genericized trademark.

#108 | Posted by Hans at 2018-11-08 12:58 PM | Reply

1 A political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

1.1 Policy or practice based on the political and economic theory of socialism.

1.2 (in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of Communism.

The term ‘socialism' has been used to describe positions as far apart as anarchism, Soviet state Communism, and social democracy; however, it necessarily implies an opposition to the untrammelled workings of the economic market. The socialist parties that have arisen in most European countries from the late 19th century have generally tended towards social democracy

en.oxforddictionaries.com

#109 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-11-08 01:03 PM | Reply

Origin
Early 19th century: from French socialisme, from social (see social).

#110 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-11-08 01:05 PM | Reply

OED definition of socialism

socialism (sou.Saliz'm). a. Fr. socialisme (1832), or independently f. social a. + -ism. See also next. The early history of the word is somewhat obscure. The first use of Fr. sociaed in common. to have been in the Globe of 13 Feb. 1832, where it was employed in contrast to personnalito. In its modern sense it is variously claimed for Leroux or Reybaud, writing within three or four years after this. A different account, assigning the priority of this use to England, is given in the Encycl. Brit. (1887) XXII. 205; according to this the word originated in 1835 in the discussions of a society founded by Robert Owen.

1. A theory or policy of social organization which aims at or advocates the ownership and control of the means of production, capital, land, property, etc., by the community as a whole, and their administration or distribution in the interests of all.

2. A state of society in which things are held or used in common.

www.writing.upenn.edu

It seems to me that definition #2 is then folks like Laura and Danforth are referring to.

#111 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-11-08 01:08 PM | Reply

The changing meaning of ‘socialist'

blog.oxforddictionaries.com

#112 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-11-08 01:14 PM | Reply

"30 million can't get the same (or better) group discount as 30"

More like "300 million can't get the same discount as 300."

#113 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-11-08 01:43 PM | Reply

What a brutal thread.

If there's one thing that we can all agree on, it's that greed and abuse of powers will eventually be the demise of a nation.
Be it capitalist or socialism.

The capitalist model in theory is the better model in my ideal sense. The problem is what's going on right now. It's called the golden rule. He who has the gold gets to make the rule. Politicians are bought by the highest corporate bidders. Then they're kept on a short leash and owned. Unchecked capitalism is dangerous, which means we have to alter the landscape to compensate.

The socialism model works in every other walk of life except humans because of greed or bad characters wanting something for nothing. In a perfect world there's absolutely nothing wrong with everyone working for the good of all. But humans aren't built like that. At least they aren't anymore. Early humans were likely more socialists but I haven't studied enough to argue over it.

This is just what I've learned in my 49 years of living. There's always someone out there who will fu@k it up for everyone else.

#114 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2018-11-09 09:44 AM | Reply

Why do holes defend capitalism when it is clearly the most disproportionate method of economic stimulation? And complaining that "democrat socialists" (you Nulli) want to abolish profiteering is so simplistic you must be English second language because you are not living in the United States today, witnessing the devastation.

The economy is not doing well whatsoever - the dollar is dropped from five major exchanges. S&P is fallen 500 points in a day - is that supporting the notion of capitalism creating a boom? The jobs increase isn't here in the US - I know several people who's hours are cut, education grants cut and nobody is seriously hiring. It appears to be the same old scam of dropping people from the list because "they are no longer seeking employment" and therefore they no longer qualify for government assistance - meaning a "savings".

Is it any wonder that even the contract agencies are operating out of India and routed through California phone numbers to appear state-side? More Americans are unemployed than ever before, imo. It's all around us.

Michael Moore might be correct - Trump is the last American president.

#115 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2018-11-09 03:39 PM | Reply

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