Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, October 01, 2018

The U.S. and Canada have agreed on a trade deal that would save the North American Free Trade Agreement as a trilateral bloc, according to three people familiar with the matter.

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Wait, what? This isn't what MediaHuffAlterThinkTalkingMattersPoNetProgressPointsMemo told us would happen!!!

-The DR Left

#1 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-09-30 10:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Some people familiar with the talks credited Trump senior adviser Jared Kushner for helping smooth the path toward a deal.

So Oui Pierre gets to bang Ivanka?

#2 | Posted by REDIAL at 2018-09-30 10:54 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

"This isn't what MediaHuffAlterThinkTalkingMattersPoNetProgressPointsMemo told us would happen!!!"

Is that so?

Good thing I read Mother Jones then!

Or maybe you just need to broaden your brush to accommodate more of your straw men.

I'd wish you luck with that, but we both know you don't need any luck to succeed in your core competency of assigning positions to people who aren't breahtlessly pro-Trump.

#3 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-30 11:01 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#3

Translation: I hate it when good things happen during this Administration.

And thanks for reminding me to add Mother Jones to the left wing spin machine citation.

#4 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-09-30 11:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Once again the people who proclaim failure when some policy objective isn't achieved overnight look like children complaining "are we there yet? are we there yet?"

#5 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-30 11:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#5 |

Just what a partisan Trumpublican hack would say... and did.

#6 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-30 11:14 PM | Reply

#5

I am sure that the same gloom and doom people who gnashed their teeth and donned sack-cloth when Trump demanded that NAFTA had to be renegotiated will find something to complain about in this new deal.

#7 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-09-30 11:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Translation: I hate it when good things happen during this Administration"

There you go.
Now that's the broad brush I'm talking about!
I knew you'd get there... eventually.

#8 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-30 11:16 PM | Reply

The only thing the article said was accomplished was keeping NAFTA together and renaming it to the U.S.-Mexico-Canada agreement.

Unlike RoC or Null, I'm afraid I'm going to have to withhold any excitement until I see something different in this deal than what we already had. Something besides a name change.

BTW - even that name change is a "what Trump wants" at this point.

So what is being celebrated here appears to be a trilateral deal that we had not being blown up.

Hm. Yay?

#9 | Posted by YAV at 2018-09-30 11:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

As Daniel Tosh famously said, "Remember kids, it isn't a stereotype if it is always true."

#10 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-09-30 11:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

To review:
Tump set NAFTA ablaze.
Canada and Mexico worked with the US to put out the fire Trump started.

To sum up:
What an amazing victory for Trump; with foreign help, he was able to put out the fire he started!

#11 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-30 11:22 PM | Reply

So what Obama promised to do and failed to deliver in 8 years was done in 2 years.

img.washingtonpost.com

#12 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-30 11:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Unlike RoC or Null, I'm afraid I'm going to have to withhold any excitement until I see something different in this deal than what we already had. Something besides a name change.

It's going to be very similar to the deal reached with Mexico last month, from the NYT:

Yet while Mr. Trump may try to change the name, the agreement reached with Mexico is simply a revised Nafta, with updates to provisions surrounding the digital economy, automobiles, agriculture and labor unions. The core of the trade pact -- which allows American companies to operate in Mexico and Canada without tariffs -- remains intact.

...

The revised deal with Mexico makes significant alterations to rules governing automobile manufacturing, in an effort to bring more car production back to the United States from Mexico. Under the changes agreed to by Mexico and the United States, car companies would be required to manufacture at least 75 percent of an automobile's value in North America under the new rules, up from 62.5 percent, to qualify for Nafta's zero tariffs. They will also be required to use more local steel, aluminum and auto parts, and have 40 to 45 percent of the car made by workers earning at least $16 an hour, a boon to both the United States and Canada and a win for labor unions, which have been among Nafta's biggest critics.

The United States and Mexico had also reached an agreement over a "sunset clause," proposed by the Trump administration, that would cause Nafta to automatically expire unless the three countries voted to extend it. The two countries agreed to a review of the trade pact every six years that would extend its lifetime for 16 more years, officials said.

The countries also agreed to limit the kinds of legal challenges that investors can make against foreign governments under Nafta. The oil and gas, infrastructure, energy generation and telecom industries are exempted from these more restrictive rules, and will operate under the previous terms, Mr. Lighthizer said -- a win for those industries.

The agreement with Mexico also contains significant new protections for intellectual property and beefs up copyright protections, which was very important to US technology and entertainment industries.

#13 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-09-30 11:30 PM | Reply

"It's going to be very similar to the deal reached with Mexico last month, from the NYTMediaHuffAlterThinkTalkingMattersPoNetProgressPointsMemo"

You don't say!

#14 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-30 11:39 PM | Reply

--The countries also agreed to limit the kinds of legal challenges that investors can make against foreign governments under Nafta.

Even Elizabeth Warren opposed that kind of nonsense in the Obama/Clinton "gold standard" TPP.

"One strong hint is buried in the fine print of the closely guarded draft. The provision, an increasingly common feature of trade agreements, is called "Investor-State Dispute Settlement," or ISDS. The name may sound mild, but don't be fooled. Agreeing to ISDS in this enormous new treaty would tilt the playing field in the United States further in favor of big multinational corporations. Worse, it would undermine U.S. sovereignty.

ISDS would allow foreign companies to challenge U.S. laws -- and potentially to pick up huge payouts from taxpayers -- without ever stepping foot in a U.S. court. Here's how it would work. Imagine that the United States bans a toxic chemical that is often added to gasoline because of its health and environmental consequences. If a foreign company that makes the toxic chemical opposes the law, it would normally have to challenge it in a U.S. court. But with ISDS, the company could skip the U.S. courts and go before an international panel of arbitrators. If the company won, the ruling couldn't be challenged in U.S. courts, and the arbitration panel could require American taxpayers to cough up millions -- and even billions -- of dollars in damages. "

www.washingtonpost.com

#15 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-30 11:52 PM | Reply

RE: #13 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER AT 2018-09-30 11:30 PM

That's a great summary of the US-Mexico trade deal, but what about the US-Canada deal?

The BBC is reporting that the specific terms of the trade deal weren't announced and don't have to be announced for up to sixty days.
That means they don't have to be announced before the US elections in November. Things that make one go 'Hmmmmmm...'.

From the BBC:
"The joint US-Canada statement did not include details of the agreement.
However, the new accord is expected to contain key provisions on Canada's dairy industry and car exports to the US.

US farmers will have access to about 3.5% of Canada's dairy market, Reuters reported, citing sources.

Canada is also reported to have secured some protections for its automobile industry against potential US tariffs.

US tariffs on steel and aluminium will remain for now, the sources said."

also:

"So having an agreement will come as a relief to the many industries in both the US and Canada that depend on Nafta and that have been living with uncertainty since the talks began.
Still, while Mr Trudeau has maintained he would not agree to a deal that was not in Canada's best interests, they will be waiting to get a clear picture of what concessions were made in the final hours to secure the agreement."

www.bbc.com

#16 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2018-10-01 02:05 AM | Reply

The only thing the article said was accomplished was keeping NAFTA together and renaming it to the U.S.-Mexico-Canada agreement.

That's all it takes for ROC to take a victory lap.

Sad.

#17 | Posted by 726 at 2018-10-01 07:34 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

The BBC is reporting that the specific terms of the trade deal weren't announced and don't have to be announced for up to sixty days.
That means they don't have to be announced before the US elections in November.

Well that's a shocker.

I'm sure the MAGAts will be cheering this agreement (see#1) even though no terms are disclosed.

Why are they keeping the details secret? Because it is SO AWESOME, that's why!

#18 | Posted by 726 at 2018-10-01 07:37 AM | Reply

"I hate it when good things happen during this Administration"

Has no clue what is in the agreement, declares it "good news" nonetheless.

#19 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2018-10-01 10:03 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

And whatever this saves us is probably already being paid out in subsidies to the hogs at the trough.

#20 | Posted by lfthndthrds at 2018-10-01 10:39 AM | Reply

That's a great summary of the US-Mexico trade deal, but what about the US-Canada deal?

It's a tri-lateral agreement, all three parties have to agree to all of the substantive provisions, so it won't be much different than the US-Mexico announced terms...but you knew that, right?

#21 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-10-01 11:52 AM | Reply

#17

What's even sadder is that you believe that is the only thing that is changed.

Try Google and broaden your knowledge base over what someone like Yav tells you to believe.

#22 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-10-01 11:54 AM | Reply

This is the most trumpian thing his administration has done yet. He's going to renegotiate the deal to put us in an objectively worse position, but he gets to rename it and feel like he's winning!

How do I know we'll be worse off? Trump is our negotiator. Look how he help N.Korea at our expense.

#23 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2018-10-01 11:57 AM | Reply

Washington Post calls it a "big win" for Trump. Since when do Democrats not believe everything they write?

#24 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-10-01 12:00 PM | Reply

Here are the details from the WashPo article that Nulli just referenced (and which are roughly consistent with what I set out last night):

U.S., Canada and Mexico just reached a sweeping new NAFTA deal. Here's what's in it.

#25 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-10-01 12:10 PM | Reply

This has got to sting, FTA I just linked:

"The deal also includes stronger protections for labor rights, the environment and intellectual property than did Obama-era trade deals, the official said."

#26 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-10-01 12:13 PM | Reply

Your party calls Right To Work protection for labor rights, RightOCenter.

#27 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-10-01 12:17 PM | Reply

#27

Since you are Reading Comprehension Challenged, here are a few of the major labor protections in the USMCA:

1. There's a new rule that a significant percentage of the work done on the car must be completed by workers earning at least $16 an hour, or about three times what the typical Mexican autoworker makes. Starting in 2020, cars and trucks should have at least 30 percent of the work on the vehicle done by workers earning $16 an hour. That gradually moves up to 40 percent for cars by 2023.

2. The USMCA stipulates that Mexican trucks that cross the border into the United States must meet higher safety regulations and driver standards.

3. The USMCA stipulates that Mexican workers must have more ability to organize and form unions.

#28 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-10-01 12:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Interestingly enough, the CTM (the main labor confederation in Mexico) was quietly fighting numbers 2 and 3 because those provisions were pushed by the AFL-CIO and Teamsters, who are gearing up to make a huge organization push in Mexico once this agreement is enacted (they have been effectively barred from anything more than minor activities in Mexico until now). The CTM has vowed to aggressively protect its turf, hopefully that is resolved peacefully.

#29 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-10-01 12:30 PM | Reply

Winning...

#30 | Posted by sawdust at 2018-10-01 01:08 PM | Reply

I'm sure the MAGAts will be cheering this agreement (see#1) even though no terms are disclosed.
Why are they keeping the details secret? Because it is SO AWESOME, that's why!

#18 | POSTED BY 726 AT 2018-10-01 07:37 AM

Why make statements like these that are so easily proven wrong?

United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement Text

#31 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-10-01 01:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

www.bloomberg.com

The U.S.-Mexico-Canada Agreement, clinched just before a midnight deadline on Sunday, reads more like an amalgam of the existing Nafta along with certain provisions from the 12-nation Trans-Pacific Partnership that Trump pulled the U.S. out of on his first full working day in office.

The risk, according to some economists, is that Nafta 2.0 imposes more regulatory demands on companies including automakers and ends up hurting rather than helping North America's competitiveness versus rivals like China.

So it's just smoke and mirrors. Same crap just different packaging. The Right just eats it up however because they are losers. It's crap ROC.

#32 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-10-01 01:33 PM | Reply

Laura, for every negative article you so desperately searched for there are a dozen positive articles about the USMCA.

Nice try though.

#33 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-10-01 01:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Laura, for every negative article you so desperately searched for there are a dozen positive articles about the USMCA.

Nice try though.

Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-10-01 01:41 PM | Reply

The right wingers have to polish that turd somehow slick.

#34 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-10-01 01:48 PM | Reply

The right wingers have to polish that turd somehow slick.

If this was done by St. Obama (as he long promised but completely failed to deliver on) you would be falling all over him, hypocrite.

#35 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-10-01 01:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

It looks like Mexico buckled, USA got more and Canada gets to tag along with some of the concessions Mexico gave up on labor.

#36 | Posted by bored at 2018-10-01 02:35 PM | Reply

#36

Each participant buckled on a few things, the US on the dispute mechanisms and car quotas, Mexico on Labor, wages and content and Canada on copyright, agriculture and pharma.

#37 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-10-01 02:43 PM | Reply

USMCA - are the Village People going to help with the announcement?

#38 | Posted by YAV at 2018-10-01 02:43 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I do agree that the US got more out of this any anyone, but that is what usually happens when you are the biggest customer with the most leverage.

#39 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-10-01 02:43 PM | Reply

"The deal also includes stronger protections for labor rights, the environment and intellectual property than did Obama-era trade deals, the official said."

The first 2 were Canadian demands/positions that were weakened by the USA during negotiations.He can take credit for the 3rd item which helps inflate Drug Prices and health care costs in all three countries.

#40 | Posted by Scotty at 2018-10-01 03:57 PM | Reply

The first 2 were Canadian demands/positions that were weakened by the USA during negotiation

Uhh, no. Both of those areas were demands the US made of and concessions received from Mexico, Canada wasn't impacted by allowing Mexican Trucks on US roads, requiring wages in excess of $16 for all US imported cars from Mexico or requiring Mexico to relax its union organizing rules to comply with International Labor standards.

Canada's big demands/positions were increased quotas for cars to be exported to the US (which they got), continued restrictions on dairy imports (which they lost), maintenance of dispute resolutions for dumping (which they mostly won) and continued lower thresholds for copyright and IP (which they mostly lost).

#41 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-10-01 04:20 PM | Reply

Actually that should be "for up to 40% of US cars imported from Mexico".

#42 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-10-01 04:21 PM | Reply

I'm pretty sure he was already doing that. It's common knowledge up here in Canada.

#43 | Posted by Jaspar at 2018-10-01 07:54 PM | Reply

#43

Who was doing what?

People enjoy your posts more if they don't have to guess what you are talking about.

#44 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-10-01 08:00 PM | Reply

Translation: I hate it when good things happen during this Administration.

Have you read it? How do you know it's good or even better than NAFTA?

#45 | Posted by jpw at 2018-10-01 09:32 PM | Reply

Winning...

#30 | POSTED BY SAWDUST

You say this about every Trump turd.

#46 | Posted by jpw at 2018-10-01 09:34 PM | Reply

You say this about every Trump turd.

POSTED BY JPW AT 2018-10-01 09:34 PM | REPLY

It's like that coin op chicken that lays those plastic filled eggs. Everyone is a winner to him.

#47 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-10-01 09:37 PM | Reply

Have you read it? How do you know it's good or even better than NAFTA?

Yes, I have, see link #31 and it is better for the US and now up to date.

#48 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-10-01 09:52 PM | Reply

#48 What about it is better? Just curious - I haven't read it and would like to hear from someone who has

#49 | Posted by JOE at 2018-10-01 10:31 PM | Reply

"If this was done by St. Obama (as he long promised but completely failed to deliver on) you would be falling all over him, hypocrite."

You mean taking a torch to NAFTA, or replacing it with a slightly evolutionary, not revolutionary USCMA, or the whole shebang?

Trump got plenty of votes from NAFTA haters, I guess he's counting on them not minding that USMCA is pretty much the same thing. I guess he's probably right about that.

Trump has done one or two good things and I dont mind giving him credit for them. If this turns out to be one, good for the three partners. If NAFTA doesn't really change meaningfully because of this, it's just Trump checking off a box on his long list of mostly insane campaign promises with the least amount of effort possible.

And if that's the case, NAFTA haters and Trump Guzzlers won't mind at all.

#50 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-10-01 11:44 PM | Reply

If this was done by St. Obama (as he long promised but completely failed to deliver on) you would be falling all over him, hypocrite.

#35 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-10-01 01:53 PM | Reply |

I've been anti NAFTA and TPP dear. You know they were both horrible when Republicans desperately wanted to work with Obama on them.

OOPSIE DAISY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#51 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-10-01 11:58 PM | Reply

Trump wants to cancel everything Obama did and then put his name on it. Don't think for a second he has made any substantive changes. Its the same ol' crap with a different name. Giveaways for Corporations that will hurt workers and increase pollution.

#52 | Posted by bayviking at 2018-10-02 12:52 AM | Reply

" 'That's a great summary of the US-Mexico trade deal, but what about the US-Canada deal?'

It's a tri-lateral agreement, all three parties have to agree to all of the substantive provisions, so it won't be much different than the US-Mexico announced terms...but you knew that, right?
#21 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER AT 2018-10-01 11:52 AM"

First, let me say thanks for posting additional info regarding the terms of the agreement.

That said, I see there are bi-lateral components in regards to US-Canada. That is precisely the point of my previous comment. In fairness, you might not have read the agreement information you later posted.

....but you knew that, right?

#53 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2018-10-02 01:50 AM | Reply

Rick Tyler had the best snapshot analysis of this: "Trump has joined the globalists and convinced his base he tore up NAFTA."

#54 | Posted by YAV at 2018-10-02 07:14 AM | Reply

#53

To the extent that your comment wasn't totally snark (I took that sentence as such) I apologize.

#55 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-10-02 11:29 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#52

Not big on reading, are you...there are plenty of substantive changes, you just don't want to acknowledge them since it ruins your narrative.

#56 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-10-02 11:30 AM | Reply

"Trump has joined the globalists and convinced his base he tore up NAFTA."

He was never going to tear up NAFTA and Bob Lighthizer said exactly that when he announced that the Administration wanted to renegotiate NAFTA, it was only the MSM that interpreted his remarks that way. NAFTA is too complex to "tear up", that was all political theater on both sides.

#57 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-10-02 11:33 AM | Reply

He was never going to tear up NAFTA and Bob Lighthizer said exactly that when he announced that the Administration wanted to renegotiate NAFTA, it was only the MSM that interpreted his remarks that way. NAFTA is too complex to "tear up", that was all political theater on both sides.

#57 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

...It's still ------- NAFTA with a couple alterations to percentages...

Seriously, there is no really big change with Mexico or Canada. It's still god damn NAFTA.

So exactly what are you cheering?

#58 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-10-02 01:02 PM | Reply

#58,

At least the ball is tipped more in our favor than it used to be. Quit being so negative and take this for what it is. It is a win for the US.

#59 | Posted by boaz at 2018-10-02 01:20 PM | Reply

...It's still ------- NAFTA with a couple alterations to percentages...
Seriously, there is no really big change with Mexico or Canada. It's still god damn NAFTA.
So exactly what are you cheering?

I totally get it that you don't want to see any success from this administration, from today's LA Times:

The agreement includes a dozen new chapters, including on labor and the environment, which in the original pact were mere side agreements. There are fresh or expanded sections on digital trade, financial services, state-owned enterprises and intellectual property.

Analysts noted that some new portions were borrowed from or built on provisions in the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the 12-nation trade pact completed by President Obama that Trump promptly killed when he became president. The U.S., Canada and Mexico were part of that Pacific Rim accord.

Lighthizer acknowledged as much in a briefing with reporters Monday, joined by Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner, who helped mediate the trade talks. But Lighthizer said "our agreement is substantially better" than the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

U.S. negotiators delivered some solid gains for U.S. farmers, particularly by prying open a little more of Canada's tightly controlled dairy market, especially dry milk. And Canada also bent to U.S. demands for 10 years of patent exclusivity protection for biologic drugs, two more years than what was negotiated in the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Drugmakers sought the longer exclusivity term, but consumer advocates argued that the extended period would hurt patients by delaying the marketing of generic drugs. U.S. negotiators also delivered solid gains in IP and copyright protections that were not in NAFTA

"There's a spirited debate going on in Canada, but the overall sentiment is relief that there's a deal to be done," said Daniel Ujczo, an international trade lawyer who specializes in Canada-U.S. affairs at the law firm Dickinson Wright.

Ujczo said the Trump administration was never "red in tooth and claw" about radically transforming NAFTA in the first place. That was a false narrative, he said. "The reality was they wanted to renovate the agreement." Ujczo said the big win for Trump was political.

Perhaps the single biggest and most innovative change came in auto rules, which took up the largest amount of negotiating time. The auto industry welcomed a deal that included all three countries, fearing a breakup of NAFTA would devastate long-built supply chains that cut across borders. Trump had threatened to proceed with Mexico alone if an agreement with Canada could not be reached by Sunday.

The provision requiring 75% of a vehicle's content be produced in North America to qualify for tariff-free trade -- up from 62.5% -- and a new requirement that 40% to 45% of a vehicle's content must be produced by workers making at least $16 an hour are likely to help lure auto manufacturing to the U.S.

Lighthizer consulted closely with both parties during the yearlong negotiations and said Monday that he believed the deal would get significant support. Many congressional Democrats have been critical of NAFTA, blaming it for spurring offshoring of jobs to Mexico, with its low wages and poor labor rights.

The labor provisions in the new agreement -- including some to bolster workers' organizing rights in Mexico -- "are more progressive than ever negotiated by anybody else," Lighthizer said.

Analysts agreed that the labor chapter in the new agreement is stronger than those in the Trans-Pacific Partnership. "Added protections for working people and some reductions in special privileges for global companies is a good start" Richard Trumka, president of the AFL-CIO, said in a statement.


#60 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-10-02 01:52 PM | Reply

At least the ball is tipped more in our favor than it used to be. Quit being so negative and take this for what it is. It is a win for the US.

POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2018-10-02 01:20 PM | REPLY

There's no ball tipping. It got sucked up in Trump's nether regions.

#61 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-10-02 01:52 PM | Reply

"#53
To the extent that your comment wasn't totally snark (I took that sentence as such) I apologize.
#55 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER AT 2018-10-02 11:29 AM"

Acknowledged.

The sentence was no more snark than when you used the sentence first.

#62 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2018-10-03 02:12 AM | Reply

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