Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, September 11, 2018

Minimum wage increases in six U.S. cities boosted worker pay without harming job growth, according to a study released Thursday by University of California at Berkeley researchers. Economists at the school's Center on Wage and Employment Dynamics examined U.S. Labor Department data from the first major cities to raise their local wage floors above $10 an hour: Washington, Chicago, Seattle, San Francisco, Oakland, and San Jose.

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An interesting read, whether you believe it or not.

Major implications considering automaton's taken over as much as it has and considering China's industry growth is less tied to pure labor numbers and now more tied to their massive gains in vocational skill development.

It's why Apple can't bring iPhone manufacturing to the U.S. There are not enough skilled workers in the U.S. to meet global demand.

#1 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2018-09-10 11:17 PM | Reply

I didn't expect poor results from increasing the wage because of the locales where it was happening. Those are all incredibly expensive places to live.

#2 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-10 11:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Logically, boosting wages should increase demand since the "cost to employ" dances around only 20% of the price of the product. It's not that hard to see.

#3 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2018-09-11 12:16 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

But that is less money for the business owners, so it must be evil.

#4 | Posted by 726 at 2018-09-11 07:03 AM | Reply

This article provides a huge boost to proving that federal action on minimum wage is unnecessary. Cities/states/localities that wish to mandate these higher wages should provide all the evidence required of stronger economies for other localities to want to emulate.

#5 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-09-11 07:10 AM | Reply | Funny: 3

#5 Can you be more evil? Is that possible? Just want your opinion.

#6 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2018-09-11 07:28 AM | Reply

It's why Apple can't bring iPhone manufacturing to the U.S. There are not enough skilled workers in the U.S. to meet global demand.

#1 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

Here is my rub with that statement. If businesses would go back to having new hire training programs or apprenticeships they could go have skilled workers they need. Nobody wants to train anymore. Tech schools can only do so much. Companies want you to have the exact skills needed for the job. Oh I have seen how apple treats its workers in China. They are so poor some sleep in shipping containers. Apple obviously doesn't want to pay a fair wage to hire Americans.

#7 | Posted by byrdman at 2018-09-11 08:05 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If wage increases don't affect employment, how do you explain so many places using machines to replace workers?

#8 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-09-11 11:28 AM | Reply

In those cities $10/hr will not pay the rent for one person.

#9 | Posted by bayviking at 2018-09-11 11:30 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

--I didn't expect poor results from increasing the wage because of the locales where it was happening. Those are all incredibly expensive places to live.

Exactly. Average wages in the bay area are far above the norm as are living costs. This study is useless because it cherry picks high wage areas.

"the average hourly wage is $36.43 an hour in Santa Clara County, $33.34 in San Francisco-San Mateo County and $29.03 in the East Bay. The national average wage is $22.71, the survey determined.Jun 23, 2015

#10 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-11 11:31 AM | Reply

--In those cities $10/hr will not pay the rent for one person.

There's a solution to that. Move.

#11 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-11 11:34 AM | Reply

Just put your little hand in mine...there ain't no hill or mountain we can't cliiiiiiiiiiiimb. Babe...I got you babe.

I figured since we are continuing down this "one study says this but I'm going to disagree and then another study says the opposite and that one I will agree with because it matches my opinion" repeat every year, might as well play the song that immortalized Groundhog's Day. Seriously, there have been so many studies on this issue that contradict what another study finds that for any person with actual intelligence to use one over another is just dumb. No frills. No intellectual euphemisms for ignorance. Just dumb.

#12 | Posted by humtake at 2018-09-11 12:09 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

If wage increases don't affect employment, how do you explain so many places using machines to replace workers?

#8 | POSTED BY SNIPER

Machines are cheaper than even $8 an hour.

But that creates employment in other fields such as manufacturing the machines, maintenance, training, and opens up jobs via cost savings.

It's called Basic Economics.

#13 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-09-11 01:23 PM | Reply

In those cities $10/hr will not pay the rent for one person.

#9 | Posted by bayviking

They are supose to be entry level and part time jobs for high school kids.

Learn a skill and get a real job.

#14 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-09-11 03:12 PM | Reply

In those cities $10/hr will not pay the rent for one person.
#9 | Posted by bayviking
They are supose to be entry level and part time jobs for high school kids.
Learn a skill and get a real job.
#14 | POSTED BY SNIPER

No, they aren't. Many regular full time jobs pay $10-12 an hour.

And some have become entry level part time jobs for high school kids because no one else can afford to take them. They didn't use to be.

#15 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-09-11 03:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Machines are cheaper than even $8 an hour.

But that creates employment in other fields such as manufacturing the machines, maintenance, training, and opens up jobs via cost savings.

It's called Basic Economics.

#13 | Posted by Sycophant

My point exactly.......... Fast food server is not a path through life. It should only be a starting point.

#16 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-09-11 03:15 PM | Reply

No, they aren't. Many regular full time jobs pay $10-12 an hour.

And some have become entry level part time jobs for high school kids because no one else can afford to take them. They didn't use to be.

#15 | Posted by Sycophant

Only full time jobs that require NO skill. The market is flooded with thoes people.

#17 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-09-11 03:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

There's a solution to that. Move.

But who will change your Depends when all the unskilled workers leave?

#18 | Posted by JOE at 2018-09-11 03:18 PM | Reply

Only full time jobs that require NO skill. The market is flooded with thoes people.

#17 | POSTED BY SNIPER

There is no job that requires NO skill to be performed properly.

#19 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2018-09-11 03:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

No, they aren't. Many regular full time jobs pay $10-12 an hour.
And some have become entry level part time jobs for high school kids because no one else can afford to take them. They didn't use to be.
#15 | Posted by Sycophant
Only full time jobs that require NO skill. The market is flooded with thoes people.
#17 | POSTED BY SNIPER

You'd know this was a lie if you ever had a job.

#20 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-09-11 04:40 PM | Reply

#11 Nulli,

Putting aside family issues, anyone who can't afford rent can't afford to move because that's even more expensive.

I know for a fact that unskilled laborers who cannot speak English, in zip 34135 refuse to work now for less than $15/hr. Rents there are substantially less than the areas studied.

#21 | Posted by bayviking at 2018-09-11 04:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

In those cities $10/hr will not pay the rent for one person.
#9 | POSTED BY BAYVIKING

Even in most impoverished communities, $10.00 per hour won't provide enough income to cover the costs of living.

Living Wage Calculator

This article provides a huge boost to proving that federal action on minimum wage is unnecessary.
#5 | POSTED BY AVIGDORE

The Federal minimum wage is still too low. And it need to be tied to some sort of cost of living adjustment.

Only full time jobs that require NO skill.
#17 | POSTED BY SNIPER

What exactly are these jobs that "require no skill"? Even if they really don't require skill, shouldn't they still provide a living? I dare you to try and work one of these jobs for a month while you don't supplement your income with savings.

#22 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2018-09-11 06:10 PM | Reply

Even if they really don't require skill, shouldn't they still provide a living?

Other than jobs that can and should be filled as first jobs. If a job needs to be done, the person doing it needs to be able to afford to live.

I just don't understand the thought process which says hey I need a person to do this job but I need them so little I don't care if they starve.

My company is a small business and every employee there is paid enough to support themselves and and a spouse or kid. Even the warehouse guys who's only required skill is "be able to lift a lot in NC heat". Somehow the owner is still rich as heck.

#23 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2018-09-11 06:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Even if they really don't require skill, shouldn't they still provide a living?

No necessarily. If you have 500 people who can do the job and only one position open, if person A will do the same job for $10 an hour and person B wants $20 an hour, who do you think is going to get hired?

I am a CISSP. There's only about 100K of us in the world. When I go for Information Security jobs, there's usually only one or two candidates for the job.

It's to the point now, I've been telling hiring managers and recruiters that I dont get out of bed before 110 to 130K a year. That's where negotiations start. And I do get multiple job offers in today's environment.

Every job cant pay a living wage.

#24 | Posted by boaz at 2018-09-11 06:49 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Somehow the owner is still rich as heck.

#23 | POSTED BY TAOWARRIOR

Your margin's must be high. If you have a business with razer thin margins for survival, they arent going to be able to overpay for labor.

#25 | Posted by boaz at 2018-09-11 06:51 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Every job cant pay a living wage.

#24 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2018-09-11 06:49 PM | FLAG:

Says who?

#26 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-11 07:27 PM | Reply

26

Says the marketplace, right now.

#27 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-11 07:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

26
Says the marketplace, right now.

#27 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2018-09-11 07:49 PM | FLAG:

Who elected the marketplace? Why should we listen to it?

#28 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-11 07:55 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 3

Every job cant pay a living wage.

When it comes to some small businesses, that may be true. But when it comes to companies like Amazon that are worth $1,000,000,000,000.00, that's just not true.

#29 | Posted by JOE at 2018-09-11 08:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

28

Not everybody and everything that has control or influence is elected.

We have a system of regulated capitalism.

You obviously have time to look that up. Why don't you?

#30 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-11 08:05 PM | Reply

29

He used the wrong word. He said can't and he should've said won't

#31 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-11 08:06 PM | Reply

"Not everybody and everything that has control or influence is elected."

The question is, why are you okay with an unelected market determining things like this, at a real and persistent human cost?

#32 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-11 08:25 PM | Reply

#31 "won't" is the right word, but i doubt Boaz intended to use it

#33 | Posted by JOE at 2018-09-11 08:26 PM | Reply

32

Explaining how the world works to you isn't the same thing as a agreeing with everything in the world.

Yes, there are real human costs to this reality

#34 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-11 08:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

- We have a system of regulated capitalism.

Um, yeah, regulated by corps and 1 percenters who get to write the tax and wage laws in exchange for their donations. This country hasn't had anything near a level playing field since before Reagan.... it's crony capitalism at it's finest now with yuge perm tax cuts.

#35 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-11 08:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Explaining how the world works to you isn't the same thing as a agreeing with everything in the world."

What a weasely non-answer. Just come out with it: are you okay with an unelected market determining things like this or aren't you?

#36 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-11 08:35 PM | Reply

Things like what?

That cities can choose to increase their minimum wage up to a much more appropriate level?

Yes, I've been in favor of that since the ideas were being voted on.

That's an example of regulated capitalism

Aren't you for things like that?

#37 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-11 08:47 PM | Reply

35

Thanks for the news report, Walter Cronkite.

#38 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-11 08:48 PM | Reply

"Things like what?"

Things like the market deciding that not every job can pay a living wage... which is what we are talking about. So? Your answer?

#39 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-11 08:51 PM | Reply

#38

No problem, Babawaw Walters.

#40 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-11 08:53 PM | Reply

--Who elected the marketplace?

Asked by no economically literate person ever. Only Statists think they can wave a magic wand and abolish the laws of supply and demand. It's as absurd as trying to regulate the laws of physics.

#41 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-11 08:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Corky, why don't you play with Dirk.

I'm not in the mood to play "what's in Eberlys heart"

The market decides dirk's wage. Is he okay with that?

The market decides the rent, cost of real estate, groceries, etc...

If his wage isn't high enough then let's just make those things cheaper?

Wages are just one of many components that determines how far a wage goes.

#42 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-11 09:00 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"The question is, "

No, you mean your question is.....

It's not the question....it's just your question.

Only you go down these juvenile roads

#43 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-11 09:04 PM | Reply

It's as absurd as trying to regulate the laws of physics.

#41 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2018-09-11 08:57 PM | FLAG:

Spoken like a true totalitarian.

#44 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-11 09:05 PM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

#43
Answer, coward.

#45 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-11 09:06 PM | Reply

I'm okay with not every job paying a living wage.

My daughter (16 years old) is babysitting right now.

Living wage is owed?

When she lifeguards?

Works at the snow-cone stand?

Living wage owed? She makes more than minimum wage at all of those jobs, BTW.

IMO, no. Living wage is not owed.

#46 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-11 09:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

-coward

I pity you. Plain and simple.

You can join snoofy.

#47 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-11 09:12 PM | Reply

-- Answer, coward.

Internet toughguy. Too funny.

#48 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-11 09:13 PM | Reply

-Internet Toughguy

I'm sure Clownshack will be along any time to scold me for being mean to his little brother.

#49 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-11 09:17 PM | Reply

#25

Who says he over pays? Retention is high because pay is high and working conditions are good. Since everyone has a lot of experience and motivation we only need a few people to do all the work. Margins are actually low. We make about 2% on most fireplaces, the luxury units for high end builders make us 15% but then we usually have to hold the builders hand from install to start up so that tends to cut it down to 10%.

Paying well has been shown to pay off for companies in the long run. Costco would be another example of a company with high pay and consequently excellent employees. Also when your employees have a comfortable life they will perform better at work. Healthier life means less sick time, more vacation time means less burn out, not having to worry about keeping a roof over your head etc. means you can focus on work.

#50 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2018-09-11 09:18 PM | Reply

Internet toughguy. Too funny.

#48 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2018-09-11 09:13 PM | FLAG:

For calling a coward a coward?

#51 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-11 09:20 PM | Reply

#46
Nice to know how little you value your child's work!

#52 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-11 09:23 PM | Reply

Too bad you've given up your right to an opinion.... since you have to listen to the market.

#53 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-11 09:25 PM | Reply

"Who says he over pays? "

Boaz is just the evil twin of Dirk. Both think they know better than Everybody else what wages should be.

#54 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-11 09:26 PM | Reply

"Paying well has been shown to pay off for companies in the long run. Costco would be another example of a company with high pay and consequently excellent employees."

I agree completely.

#55 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-11 09:29 PM | Reply

I agree completely.
#55 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2018-09-11 09:29 PM | FLAG:

Weasely way of relying on "market solutions."

#56 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-11 09:41 PM | Reply

Only Statists think they can wave a magic wand and abolish the laws of supply and demand.

It's not about abolishing the laws of supply and demand, it's about overriding them when they fail us as a society. We have a government (much to your chagrin), they collect and spend trillions annually, and they can (and do) tinker with and override market forces on a daily basis. This is not news.

#57 | Posted by JOE at 2018-09-11 09:51 PM | Reply

--it's about overriding them when they fail us as a society.

You can't override the laws of supply and demand. You can, for example, impose wage and price controls, but the laws of supply and demand will assert themselves with decreased supply.

#58 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-11 09:58 PM | Reply

I see Nulli is on his knees again for that boy band, Trump and the Corportists and their hit tune, "Supply, Demand, and the Magic Hand!".

Let old conservative Ben Stein teach you a lesson in economics:

Our best economic years? 1941 to 1973 during high taxes... and no, the war doesn't account for that.

www.youtube.com

#59 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-11 10:14 PM | Reply

#58 that sounds like a distinction without a difference. Whether you deem the laws to have been "overridden," the outcome they would have produced is no longer present.

#60 | Posted by JOE at 2018-09-11 10:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

They are supose to be entry level and part time jobs for high school kids.
Learn a skill and get a real job.

#14 | POSTED BY SNIPER AT 2018-09-11 03:12 PM | REPLY |

There are 16 million high school kids and 40 million FULL TIME jobs that pay $10/hr or less. The jobs cannot be filled by kids who can only work 20 hours a week without hurting their grades

#61 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-09-11 10:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Stop pretending that permanent full time jobs are part time entry level temporary jobs. These jobs are not starter jobs they are jobs that used to pay enough to raise a family.

My Grandfather was a salesman in the clothing department at Sears. Back then employees were considered partners in the business. He made enough money selling Suits to let my Grandmother stay at home and not have to work. They bought land, built a house, and raised a family on that single income. Then when he retired he had a pension and SS and was able to travel and enjoy his retirement.
My dad followed in his footsteps. He too worked at Sears, in middle management. Then when I was 14 Sears changed. Instead of being partners in the business the workers became enemies. Only the costs of labor were considered, not the value of the work. After a few rounds of cost cutting my Dad was ordered to fire several people at his store simply because their wages were too high. My dad tried to argue that those were his best most experienced workers and found himself holding a pink slip as well. So my dad found himself unemployed with 4 children nearing college age. The next couple years were tough. My parents almost lost the house.
My dad retooled. My mom worked more. We got some help from the evil soshulists in the form of food and energy assistance. We survived. The days of a person working full time at any job being enough to support a family are gone. Instead we have record dividends and free money for the investor class. The employees are the enemy. A cost center to be minimized at all cost. Instead of being partners in growing the business employees are viewed as leeches. The job they fill is a gift from the "job creator". If the job doesn't provide the means to live it is the employee's fault.

The reason 40 million people work full time for $10/hour or less is not because the workers are lazy or unmotivated or uneducated. The reason is simply that 40 million full time jobs have wages under $10/hour and no amount of education will reduce the number of people required to work them by even 1

#62 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-09-11 10:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

"The next couple years were tough. My parents almost lost the house."

Sounds like it was a rough time. What did your dad end up doing for a living?

#63 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-11 10:59 PM | Reply

He went into insurance sales and eventually got his MBA and managed retirement accounts. I went to his graduation when I was 25.

#64 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-09-11 11:12 PM | Reply

"You can't override the laws of supply and demand."

Says who?

#65 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-11 11:33 PM | Reply

You can't override the laws of supply and demand. You can, for example, impose wage and price controls, but the laws of supply and demand will assert themselves with decreased supply.

#58 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

As we have come to expect, the Republicans prove themselves AGAIN to be economically illiterate. The law of supply and demand state that if you increase the price of something, demand will decrease or stay constant. AND, it only applies if all else stays equal. The amount it decreases is based on the price elasticity of demand, which is the rate at which demand falls as price increases. So, if you have a very low PED, then a very high change in price will result in a very low change in demand. But, putting more money into the pockets of lower income workers is NOT "all else staying equal". That increases disposable income so would push the demand curve up. So, based upon the laws of supply and demand, it is very possible for demand for labor to INCREASE as the minimum wage is increased.

But, since it seems your scientific knowledge is limited to what can fit on a bumper sticker ("law of supply and demand... derp") I don't expect this explanation of economic theory to change your opinion in the least.

#66 | Posted by gtbritishskull at 2018-09-12 12:03 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Great story, HATTER.

Thank you for sharing. I can directly relate.

#67 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2018-09-12 12:30 AM | Reply

splinternews.com

new report from the National Low Income Housing Coalition confirms something that anyone who lives in a city and is not a millionaire should know intuitively -- there is no affordable housing.

The report from the National Low Income Housing Coalition found that it is virtually impossible for a minimum wage worker to afford a fairly priced two-bedroom apartment in any state in the country.

According to the chart you still need to make 14.00 bucks an hour to rent in WV. We have a housing crisis in this country and while the min wage going up will help it won't fix it because landlords will just keep raising rents. I can only see this being fixed by having the govt step in and purchase properties and rent control on a large scale so people have affordable housing.

#68 | Posted by byrdman at 2018-09-12 01:19 AM | Reply

There is a company proving that you can have a successful thriving business AND pay your employees well for low skill jobs. Kwik Trip started in Eau Claire Wisconsin in 1965. They have always paid much higher than minimum wage for starting pay as a sales associate. Starting pay at our local stores is $13/hr. If someone is a good worker they will be trained as a store leader within 2 years. Store leaders make $25-$30/hr. It's basically a convenience store like many others with a glaring difference. The workers look like they are happy to be there, there are more of them (sometimes 4 registers running), and the stores are cleaner and better stocked than any other convenience store I have been to.

The right wing tells us that raising the minimum wage will result in companies like this going out of business. Kwik Trip proves that is a lie. Not only are they doing ok paying 60% higher starting wages than the other guys, They just bought out their largest regional competitor. they now have 18,000 employees and over 1,000 stores. They are expanding into Iowa and the dakotas (Look out Casey's)

That's right they average 18 employees at a store. Unlike most convenience stores where there is 1 person behind the counter and sometimes another stocking, during the day there are 8-10 employees in the store and 3-4 at night.

Forbes ranked Kwik Trip #27 in their best places to start work for new grads 2018 and #68 in their America's best employers 2018

#69 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-09-12 06:19 AM | Reply

#69

Nice I'll add them to Costco and my own company as examples of how you can run a successful business while still offering reasonable compensation.

I do have to wonder with these companies how they feel about a rising min wage? They are well above it but if min wage goes up they either have to match the increase or loose some of their edge. That can be painful when you are already in the upper range of wages.

#70 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2018-09-12 07:02 AM | Reply

Unlike most convenience stores where there is 1 person behind the counter and sometimes another stocking, during the day there are 8-10 employees in the store and 3-4 at night.

I can see that working at like a Sheetz type, high volume gas station, but not at smaller ones. There has to be high volume for that to work.

#71 | Posted by boaz at 2018-09-12 09:01 AM | Reply

It's not about abolishing the laws of supply and demand, it's about overriding them when they fail us as a society.

Spoken like a true socialist.

You cant override them no more than you can override the laws of physics or gravity.

Go jump out of a building and see if you can "override" the law of gravity. Let me know how that works out for you..

#72 | Posted by boaz at 2018-09-12 09:04 AM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

It's not about abolishing the laws of supply and demand, it's about overriding them when they fail us as a society.

And the way I see it, the laws dont fail society, it's the low skilled people failing the law. Understand the law and update your skills to comply with it and you have no problems.

#73 | Posted by boaz at 2018-09-12 09:10 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

$10.00, why not $15 or $20?

#74 | Posted by Maverick at 2018-09-12 09:14 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You cant override them no more than you can override the laws of physics or gravity.

You literally can.

If (according to conservatives), the "law of supply and demand" dictates fhat someone earn $3/hour, the government can override that "law" and say that person's actually going to make $8 - Or the government can just hand money to the worker, thereby overriding the preferred outcome of supply and demand.

I didn't say anything about the merits of overriding the law of supply and demand. I simply said it can be done, and is done, daily in the United States and across the globe. So take the rest of your post and stick it up your ass.

#75 | Posted by JOE at 2018-09-12 09:17 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I can see that working at like a Sheetz type, high volume gas station, but not at smaller ones. There has to be high volume for that to work.

#71 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2018-09-12 09:01 AM | REPLY |

They have 1000 stores AVERAGING 18 employees per store. They simply reject the model you cling to for how to run a convenience store. The BP and Shell stations within 2 blocks are about the same size, same number of pumps but have one person behind a counter getting lower pay and not putting in any more effort than they are paid for.

And no Kwik Trip didn't have to raise their prices. They actually have staples like bread, eggs, and butter for less than the grocery stores.

#76 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-09-12 09:21 AM | Reply

update your skills

Are you even aware of the fact that our society, culture, and educational system has failed millions of people that will never have the capability to "update their skills?" Or would you rather pretend those people didn't exist?

Let me put it in terms you might understand. Remember when you had a government job in the military which generated a government paycheck and now gives you a fat government pension? Remember how there were people who ranked Private, were good enough at what they did but everyone knew they wouldn't make it beyond that? No matter how much you might have told them to "update their skills?"

We can't all have 150+ IQs and collect a fat government pension. For some people a menial job is all they will ever achieve. Telling them to "update their skills" is like me telling you to understand this post.

#77 | Posted by JOE at 2018-09-12 09:22 AM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

There will always be more menial jobs than intellectual jobs. They are necessary for society to function unlike the BSers. To consciously plan a society wherein those menial jobs cannot afford to pay rent or healthcare is a formula for a failed society,,a dog eat dog capitalist society.

#78 | Posted by bayviking at 2018-09-12 10:11 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"We can't all have 150+ IQs and collect a fat government pension. For some people a menial job is all they will ever achieve. Telling them to "update their skills" is like me telling you to understand this post."

Ouch!

#79 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2018-09-12 10:18 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

The problem with our society is that we refuse to accept the simple fact that we need lots and lots of low skill labor to generate the enormous wealth. We pretend that the wealth comes from the top when the truth is that in most companies if the upper management got stranded in a desert for a year it wouldn't affect the revenue of the company. The low wage workers are the ones who do all the work that generates the revenue.

#80 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-09-12 10:49 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

--$10.00, why not $15 or $20?

Why not $30 or $40? If you override the laws of supply and demand there would be no negative consequences. So why aren't progressives proposing that?

#81 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 11:05 AM | Reply

there would be no negative consequences

Nice shrawman. It's about balancing those consequences with the consequences of simply letting the market decide.

#82 | Posted by JOE at 2018-09-12 11:20 AM | Reply

Nothing strawman about it. Just do it. Put a $40 minimum wage in your platform, since the laws of supply and demand can be abolished by government dictate.

#83 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 11:28 AM | Reply

"The low wage workers are the ones who do all the work that generates the revenue."

We would split hairs over who generates the revenue depending on the specific job.

But we can agree the jobs are essential to the success of the company.

#84 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-12 11:30 AM | Reply

"So why aren't progressives proposing that?"

Math.

#85 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-09-12 11:33 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"So why aren't progressives proposing that?"

Politics

#86 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-12 11:44 AM | Reply

Progressives are proposing legitimate regulations that help level a playing field in an economic system that naturally flows wealth upwards. Like people friendly wage and tax laws rather than permanent corporate tax give-aways.

You know, like they did during the best economic years of America when taxes were used to promote fairness in the system and a min wage was established along with other safety nets.

According to Comrade Nulli and his butt-buddy Trump, Russia's current crony capitalist oligarchy is the ideal result of the the laws of supply and demand, and we shouldn't, and cannot, fight it.

Resistance is useless.

#87 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 11:47 AM | Reply

Hilarious how these libertarian crackpots ignore post 66.

#88 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-12 11:49 AM | Reply

"The Resistance" is useless, that's for sure.

#89 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 11:51 AM | Reply

--Hilarious how these libertarian crackpots ignore post 66.

#88 | Posted by DirkStruan

If history is any guide, Comrade Dirk should be good for another 50 posts on this thread.

#90 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 11:53 AM | Reply

#89

Your lack of any real argument, ever, makes you totally useless. One supposes that your Tramp for Trump act is really difficult to pull off without making Sniper and FishP look like geniuses.

#91 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 11:54 AM | Reply

If history is any guide, Comrade Dirk should be good for another 50 posts on this thread.

#90 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2018-09-12 11:53 AM | FLAG:

Each one a veritable work of literature compared to your usual array of hackneyed bumper sticker slogans, alleged scholar.

#92 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-12 11:57 AM | Reply

Perhaps I should remind everyone that this article highlights the impact of a minimum wage hike in 6 high cost of living cities.

We've had to endure a bypass from that to explain to ----- like Boydstraun the unelected marketplace has a huge say in wages.

Most folks here agree with that. They may not like it but they accept it as reality.

#93 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-12 12:14 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

#93 ----- like Nulli should read the article before spouting off about "negative consequences" of governments interfering with the labor market.

#94 | Posted by JOE at 2018-09-12 01:10 PM | Reply

"We've had to endure a bypass from that to explain to ----- like Boydstraun the unelected marketplace has a huge say in wages."

I never disputed that it DOES, I merely asked why it SHOULD. No answer from you, naturally.

#95 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-12 01:14 PM | Reply

-"negative consequences" of governments interfering with the labor market.

You don't think there are negative consequences of the govt interfering with the labor market?

#96 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-12 01:19 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#96 Did you read the article?

#97 | Posted by JOE at 2018-09-12 01:21 PM | Reply

Yes. Now answer my question.

#98 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-12 01:28 PM | Reply

------- like Nulli should read the article before spouting off about "negative consequences" of governments interfering with the labor market.

#94 | Posted by JOE

Hey dummy, you see my #10? Now, when you are going to propose a $40 minimum wage, since there are no consequences?

#99 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 01:30 PM | Reply

The "negative consequence" i always see predicted is that less low-wage earners will have jobs if we raise the minimum wage. This article seems to disprove that theory.

The other one i hear is that the product or service offered will have to cost more. This study says McDonald's prices would go up 4.3% if minimum wage were increased to $15/hour. So a big mac goes from $3.99 to $4.16.

So, i suppose if i have to answer such a multifaceted question with something simple enough for you to understand, it would be "yes, but the good caused by the interference far outweighs the bad."

#100 | Posted by JOE at 2018-09-12 01:32 PM | Reply

Yes. Now answer my question.

#98 | Posted by eberly

No no no. Do it Dirk style.

"Answer, coward.

#45 | Posted by DirkStruan

#101 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 01:33 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

you see my #10?

Yeah. Post your own study if you don't like this one.

#102 | Posted by JOE at 2018-09-12 01:33 PM | Reply

You don't think there are negative consequences of the govt interfering with the labor market?

Posted by eberly at 2018-09-12 01:19 PM | Reply | Flagged funny by DirkStruan

That's all Dirk has.

#103 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 01:34 PM | Reply

And all you have is ankle biting and whining about flags. Give it up, old man.

#104 | Posted by JOE at 2018-09-12 01:35 PM | Reply

--Yeah. Post your own study if you don't like this one.

The problem with this "study" was pointed out by Eberly in the second post, and that's only because he beat me to it. Maybe learn to read before flapping your gums.

#105 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 01:38 PM | Reply

I get that you have "problems" with it. Now post your own.

Or do you not have one?

#106 | Posted by JOE at 2018-09-12 01:38 PM | Reply

That's all Dirk has.

#103 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2018-09-12 01:34 PM | FLAG:

Nah. It is just all lightweights like you two deserve.

#107 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-12 01:39 PM | Reply

Hey Joe, about that $40 minimum wage...aw, never mind. You aren't going to answer it, because you can't.

#108 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 01:41 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

Your stupid strawman? I've already admitted that interference in the market has its limitations, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't find the right balance or resort to imbecilic hyperbole.

Except in your case, because you can't do any better.

#109 | Posted by JOE at 2018-09-12 01:44 PM | Reply

Hey Nulli, about that whole justification for the market setting wages: I am still waiting for it. Oh, that's right... you have no answer.

#110 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-12 01:44 PM | Reply

100

The reason I asked is because it appears you don't think that's possible. That the govt can indeed generate negative consequences from interfering in the labor market.

So again, do you or do you not think that's true?

#111 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-12 01:46 PM | Reply

Govt: "We should cut taxes by 20%".
Nulli: "HURRRRR IF THATS SUCH A GOOD IDEA WHY NOT CUT TAXES BY A THOUSAND PERCENT?!?!?"

Govt: "We should give some food to people who are starving."
Nulli: "DUUURRRR IF THATS SUCH A GOOD IDEA WHY DONT WE GIVE EVERY FAMILY ON EARTH PRIME RIB AND FOIE GRAS EVERY SINGLE DAY!?!?!??"

Govt: "We should impose 15% tariffs on China."
Nulli: "HURR DUURRR IF THATS SUCH A GOOD IDEA THEN WHY NOT CHARGE A 50,000,000% TARIFF?!?!?"

This is literally what you sound like.

#112 | Posted by JOE at 2018-09-12 01:47 PM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

#111 I answered you in the last sentence of 100. Try reading.

#113 | Posted by JOE at 2018-09-12 01:48 PM | Reply

Danforth answered the question with one word, but Joe just produces word salad.

"So why aren't progressives proposing that?"

Math.

#85 | Posted by Danforth

#114 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 01:49 PM | Reply

113
My bad. I missed that.

Thanks.

#115 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-12 01:49 PM | Reply

Danforth answered the question with one word, but Joe just produces word salad.
"So why aren't progressives proposing that?"
Math.
#85 | Posted by Danforth

#114 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Credit is where it's due: Danforth gave a brilliant answer.

#116 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-09-12 02:01 PM | Reply

Hey Nulli, about that whole justification for the market setting wages: I am still waiting for it. Oh, that's right... you have no answer.

#110 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

If not the market, what do you propose?

#117 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-09-12 02:03 PM | Reply

word salad

It's more of a ten-course meal. I realize you can't gum it down at your age.

#118 | Posted by JOE at 2018-09-12 02:05 PM | Reply

--Credit is where it's due: Danforth gave a brilliant answer.

Unlike Comrades Dirk and Joe, he understands the law of supply and demand, which can be summarized as TANSTAAFL.

#119 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 02:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If not the market, what do you propose?

#117 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-09-12 02:03 PM | FLAG:

Is that your answer?

#120 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-12 02:10 PM | Reply

Funny that the same people who want the State to raise wages for unskilled labor want to import cheap, unskilled labor which drives wages down. Brilliant!

#121 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 02:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Is that your answer?

#120 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

No.

I was asking you a question. You seem bothered by the notion that the market should determine wages, which suggested to me that you thought a better option existed. I was curious as to what you believe that better option is. This isn't a "gotcha" or anything like that. I'm genuinely curious.

#122 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-09-12 02:13 PM | Reply

--If not the market, what do you propose?

We already know what that is.

#123 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 02:14 PM | Reply

Hey Joe, about that $40 minimum wage...aw, never mind. You aren't going to answer it, because you can't.

#108 | Posted by nullifidian

Hey howbout you run your car engine at 10,000 RPM as you drive around? Or 200 RPM? See how that works for you.

Or maybe smart people realize complex systems with variable inputs have optimal levels for optimal outputs, and it's usually somewhere in the middle.
Experts can find the optimal input levels for the best outputs. Fox watching morons like you cant.

#124 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-09-12 02:15 PM | Reply

We already know what that is.

#123 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2018-09-12 02:14 PM | REPLY | FLAG

Still waiting.

#125 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-12 02:15 PM | Reply

--We already know what that is.

#123 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2018-09-12 02:14 PM | REPLY | FLAG

Still waiting.

#125 | Posted by DirkStruan

Waiting for what? Your alternative is Marxist socialism. Everyone knows that.

#126 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 02:18 PM | Reply

Experts can find the optimal input levels for the best outputs.

Another term for that is: Central planning.

#127 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-09-12 02:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Waiting for what?"

Your justification for letting the market decide wages, alleged liberal. Funny how little all your talk of liberty is worth when it comes to the market, isn't it?

#128 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-12 02:20 PM | Reply

Another term for that is: Central planning.

#127 | Posted by JeffJ

Another term for it that scares republicans is SCIENCE.

#129 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-09-12 02:21 PM | Reply

Another term for that is: Central planning.

#127 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-09-12 02:20 PM | FLAG:

Was your mother a thesaurus? Or are you dog whistling?

#130 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-12 02:22 PM | Reply

Another term for it that scares republicans is SCIENCE.

#129 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

You're the guy who thinks a plane didn't hit the Pentagon on 9/11.

#131 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 02:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

- a $40 minimum wage,

Wow.... absurd red herrings are all this clown has these days. If he's not yammering on about antifa and the New Great Red Scare that is such a danger to this country.... when the Right holds all of government, then it's ludicrous nonsense like a $40 minimum wage that no one has ever proposed.

Sniper and FishP's relative IQ increases each time he posts. And then when you ask him to back up his lame claims, he runs away faster then Donald Trump at a paternity hearing.

#132 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 02:22 PM | Reply

Or are you dog whistling?

#130 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

Wolf whistling and only when a hottie is in the vicinity.

#133 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-09-12 02:26 PM | Reply

- alternative is Marxist socialism.

The alt to crony capitalism is a well-regulated capitalism, as we once had, that takes into account the Pareto principle; the 80/20 Rule and the natural flow of capitalism to the top, by leveling the playing field with equality progressive taxation and wage and social safety net laws.

www.theguardian.com

#134 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 02:28 PM | Reply

--Experts can find the optimal input levels for the best outputs.

Yeah, like GOSPLAN. lol

#135 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 02:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Experts can find the optimal input levels for the best outputs.

Another term for that is: Central planning.
#127 | POSTED BY JEFFJ"

So What?
We get that Central Planning is the economic N word for you, but so What?

Are you denying that experts can determine this better than uneducated consumers?

If not, then what are you doing?
You're pointing your finger at Speaks and calling him a N-----. I mean, "Central Planner."

#136 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-12 02:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

--Are you denying that experts can determine this better than uneducated consumers?

Another idiot that fetishizes "experts"

#137 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 02:38 PM | Reply

"Danforth gave a brilliant answer."

Yes. But he misspelled "marketplace"

#138 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-12 02:41 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

You're the guy who thinks a plane didn't hit the Pentagon on 9/11.

#131 | Posted by nullifidian

You're the guy who hated george bush and now spends all his time defending someone far worse.

#139 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-09-12 02:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

- fetishizes "experts"

Poster idolizes science deniers, fake news, and hates him some fact-based expertise. He SO much in common with alt right Trumpers these days that Steve Bannon will be performing his next surgery because he's a popular guy among rwingers now.

Who needs experts for a quality lobotomy?

#140 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 02:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"You seem bothered by the notion that the market should determine wages, "

Don't forget.....it's an unelected marketplace.

#141 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-12 02:43 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

139

I see him arguing with you more than defending trump.

It's not the same thing.

But.......you're a 9-11 denier?

#142 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-12 02:47 PM | Reply

- It's not the same thing.

Except when it is.

#143 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 02:49 PM | Reply

But.......you're a 9-11 denier?

#142 | POSTED BY EBERLY

You didn't know that?

It's his default programming - if something bad can in any way be attributed to a Republican or conservative - that's the answer.

#144 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-09-12 02:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

143

Like you could ever tell.

Because I choose to refute crap spewed by folks here, I'm constantly accused of being a trumper.

It's just like racebaiting only with zero creativity.

When someone has nothing, they grab their "you're a trumper " card from their ---.

#145 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-12 02:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Don't forget.....it's an unelected marketplace.

#141 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2018-09-12 02:43 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Correct. And you are fine with surrendering your choices to it, apparently. Why do you hate freedom?

#146 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-12 02:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Because I choose to refute crap spewed by folks here, I'm constantly accused of being a trumper."

You are. You run interference for him constantly.

#147 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-12 02:58 PM | Reply

--I see him arguing with you more than defending trump.

It's all he's got, every day. He should create a Corky stamp, in the tradition of the Ashton stamp, and save himself some typing.

#148 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 03:00 PM | Reply

When someone has nothing, they grab their "you're a trumper " card from their ---.

In Corkyworld, if you have anything to say that is positive about the economy, trade, international relations, etc. you are automatically a Trump supporter...and then he accuses you of either an ad hominum attack or posting without substance and declares victory.

#149 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-09-12 03:02 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

#148

Still no argument, only caricature. At least I do both.

But hey, maybe you aren't very bright, just bright enough to know that your idiotic claims allow for no good argument you could make, so why should you pretend they do?

See, I try to find the best in people.

#150 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 03:04 PM | Reply

#149

Says the cut and paste crusader.

#151 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-12 03:04 PM | Reply

- you are automatically a Trump supporter.

When one spends their days here obfuscating and deflecting for rwing policy, Nazi Marchers, and Donald Trump's lunacy and lies, they've made themselves into Trump Humpers.

Pointing out the obvious is no crime. And apparently it's necessary for the will-fully blind.

#152 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 03:07 PM | Reply

{Corky stamp}

You're a nazi-coddling Trumpist who marches with Robert Spencer and watches Fox News and loves Steven Bannon and white supremacists and racists, 1 percent crony capitalist KKK science denier, bla bla, bla.

{stamp]

Did I leave anything out?

#153 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 03:07 PM | Reply

#150

"Still no argument, only caricature."

How predictable was that...?

#154 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-09-12 03:08 PM | Reply

Another idiot that fetishizes "experts"
#137 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

^
Another idiot that fetishizes Snoofy since they can't discuss literally anything without engaging in name calling.

#155 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-12 03:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

- Did I leave anything out?

Yeah, any argument to support the lame claims you make here... oh, and the fact that:

You're a nazi-coddling Trumpist who marches with Robert Spencer and watches Fox News and loves Steven Bannon and white supremacists and racists, 1 percent crony capitalist KKK science denier, bla bla, bla.

Is a solid paraphrase of your postage here. Good werk, Brownie Boots!!

#156 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 03:10 PM | Reply

- How predictable was that...?

Says the Pres of Lawyers Sans Arguments.

#157 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 03:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Revised:

{Corky stamp}
You're a nazi-coddling Trump Humper who marches with Robert Spencer and watches Fox News and loves Steven Bannon and white supremacists and racists, 1 percent crony capitalist KKK science denying obfuscator, who has no arguments, only charicature.
{stamp}

#158 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-09-12 03:12 PM | Reply

Correct. And you are fine with surrendering your choices to it, apparently. Why do you hate freedom?

#146 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

You have it backwards. A free market maximizes choices and maximizes freedom.

#159 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-09-12 03:15 PM | Reply

- who has no arguments

I've made arguments throughout the thread, and supported them with facts. Nulli has made lame claims about "$40 minimum wages" and staggeringly stupid claims about the inevitability of unfettered capitalism as the LAW of supply and demand.

You? You've just hung on his short, short coattails like it's your natural place in life.

#160 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 03:15 PM | Reply

You have it backwards. A free market maximizes choices and maximizes freedom.

#159 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-09-12 03:15 PM | FLAG:

The hell are you talking about? You people just conceded that it is unelected and controls wages.

#161 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-12 03:18 PM | Reply

#159

"In economics, a free market is an idealized system..." Read on:

en.wikipedia.org

Perhaps this definition has also escaped you...

"Neoliberalism or neo-liberalism[1] refers primarily to the 20th-century resurgence of 19th-century ideas associated with laissez-faire economic liberalism.[2]:7 Those ideas include economic liberalization policies such as privatization, austerity, deregulation, free trade[3] and reductions in government spending in order to increase the role of the private sector in the economy and society.[11]

These market-based ideas and the policies they inspired constitute a paradigm shift away from the post-war Keynesian consensus which lasted from 1945 to 1980.[12][13]"

en.wikipedia.org

Nulli, Jeffy, RoCheney.... proud little neoliberals.

#162 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 03:20 PM | Reply

The hell are you talking about? You people just conceded that it is unelected and controls wages.

#161 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

It is by definition - free.

People have the ability in a market to negotiate their own compensation and as a consumer have all sorts of choices. That is WAY more free than any command-economy can muster.

#163 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-09-12 03:21 PM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

"A free market maximizes choices and maximizes freedom."

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

A free market doesn't maximize choices, it kills choices until only the most profitable choice remains.

You should give back your liberal arts degree.

#164 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-12 03:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

It's all he's got, every day. He should create a Corky stamp, in the tradition of the Ashton stamp, and save himself some typing.

#148 | Posted by nullifidian

And all you've got, every day, is defending everything you used to hate.

I'm still open to hearing how a progressive dubya-hater turns into one of the most reliable trump deflectors on the site, literally repeating the con man's talking points word for word.

#165 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-09-12 03:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

You have it backwards. A free market maximizes choices and maximizes freedom.

#159 | Posted by JeffJ

Yeah a free market maximizes corporations' freedom to sell you poison and call it food.

#166 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-09-12 03:25 PM | Reply

"It is by definition - free."

Not an answer.

"People have the ability in a market to negotiate their own compensation and as a consumer have all sorts of choices. That is WAY more free than any command-economy can muster."

Again, what are you talking about? The MARKET sets wages. The MARKET produces "choices" (between marketable products). How is domination by an unelected market "free" in any meaningful sense of the term?

#167 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-12 03:26 PM | Reply

"People have the ability in a market to negotiate their own compensation"

You have the ability to negotiate the price of a gallon of gas at the Texaco, and the price of a Big Mac at McDonald's.

Do you ever do that?

You're counting negotiated chickens that are never, ever going to hatch.

Basically, you're a liar.

#168 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-12 03:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"and as a consumer have all sorts of choices"

Did you "choose" your utility company?

#169 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2018-09-12 03:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#169

Why yes, he found them on Amazon, lmao!

#170 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 03:31 PM | Reply

--You should give back your liberal arts degree.

These days, a classical liberal arts degree has been turned into SJW studies, including history [of white supremacy], literature [except dead white people], sociology AKA Marxist studies, Oppression 101, Feminist Geography, Intersectional Quantum Physics, Ethnomathmatics, Genderless Studies, etc.

#171 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 03:32 PM | Reply

"People have the ability in a market to negotiate their own compensation and as a consumer have all sorts of choices. That is WAY more free than any command-economy can muster."

"Again, what are you talking about? The MARKET sets wages"

LMFAO.

Dude you're talking to an intellectual eighth grader.

He doesn't understand what he's saying.
He just recites it like he recited the Pledge of Allegiance every day. Rote repetition is why he believes it's true. Not though education or understanding.

#172 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-12 03:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#171

Could have been taken directly from a Trump Tweet, rofl! Well, with some spelling corrections.

Neolibfidian to the rwing rescue again.

#173 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 03:37 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

You need to quit biting my ankles.

I'm not taking your insipid bait. You're looking desperate and pathetic.

#174 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-09-12 03:38 PM | Reply

"That is WAY more free than any command-economy can muster."

Yeah. So thanks to freedom, you work for $10 an hour and someone who is better at negotiation gets $35/hr to do the same job.

And you go home at the end of the day with $200 less in your pocket and celebrate your freedom to work for less money.

You're capitalism's Useful Idiot.

#175 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-12 03:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

These days, a classical liberal arts degree has been turned into SJW studies, including history [of white supremacy], literature [except dead white people], sociology AKA Marxist studies, Oppression 101, Feminist Geography, Intersectional Quantum Physics, Ethnomathmatics, Genderless Studies, etc.

#171 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2018-09-12 03:32 PM | FLAG:

Translation: "I'm real mad we pay attention to minorities, women, and the poor now."

#176 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-12 03:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You're capitalism's Useful Idiot.

#175 | POSTED BY SNOOFY FLAG: Communism's useful idiot

#177 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-09-12 03:43 PM | Reply

"You have the ability to negotiate the price of a gallon of gas at the Texaco"

if the heritage foundation made that claim, jeffyj would swear he does it all the time

#178 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2018-09-12 03:44 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

JeffJ, here's what's happening:

I'm discussing the issues, in a way that points out how misinformed and flat out wrong you are, as well as stunningly ignorant.

You are pouting over the fact that I'm using you as an example, since you can't actually refute anything I've said.

And now you are pretending your hurt little feelings give you carte blanche to keep spreading your stupid lies.

#179 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-12 03:44 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#176

Dulli is a prominent White Social Injustice Warrior.... and Red Scare Monger.

Like all the voters who said in exit polls that they voted for Trump because they are afraid of losing their majority status.... oh, and that they really have no problem with a strong social/economic safety net, as long as it wouldn't help said minorities.

#180 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 03:45 PM | Reply

#175 | POSTED BY SNOOFY FLAG: Communism's useful idiot

(POUTING INTENSIFIES)

#181 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-12 03:45 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

--proud little neoliberals.

Add brown booted neoliberal to the stamp.

#182 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 03:47 PM | Reply

I'm discussing the issues...

#179 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2018-09-12 03:44 PM

That is seriously funny. Your lack of self-awareness is astounding.

You are biting ankles because you are bored and don't have anything better to do. Nothing more. FF for what is in bold.

#183 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-09-12 03:48 PM | Reply

v.3:

{Corky stamp}
You're a nazi-coddling brown booted neoliberal Trump Humper who marches with Robert Spencer and watches Fox News and loves Steven Bannon and white supremacists and racists, 1 percent crony capitalist KKK science denying obfuscator, who has no arguments, only charicature.
{stamp}

#184 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-09-12 03:48 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#182

Why not? Facts are facts.... well, except in your Trumpish World.

As long as you obfuscate and deflect for Trump, Nazi Marchers, and neoliberal economics, people are going to point out that you do.... and in direct opposition to your previously held positions.

And you did all this to yourself just so you could criticize progressives who failed so terribly to agree with you. My, my. What a tangled web we weave...

#185 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 03:51 PM | Reply

If history is any guide, Comrade Dirk should be good for another 50 posts on this thread.

#90 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2018-09-12 11:53 AM

Looks like I underestimated the Power of Comrade Dirk.

#186 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 03:54 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

- charicature.

You know, one might forgive a low-level attny for misspelling the word once, but twice?

Worse, though, he's posted a couple of times here, and still with no argument to anything that's been said on topic whatsoever. It's almost like he to is becoming Sniper or FishP before our very eyes.

But at least he didn't deny being a neoliberal... which is prolly a good thing since no one would buh-lieve him.

#187 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 03:54 PM | Reply

Now you are resorting to typo comments?

You really do have nothing at this point.

#188 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-09-12 03:56 PM | Reply

#186

Powerful argument! That shows you didn't make any stupid claims about $40 min wages and supply and demand as irrefutable neoliberal law.

And that you haven't spent the last couple of years here deflecting and obfuscating for the alt right, the GOP, Trump, Nazi Marchers, and neoliberal economics.

I'm SO proud of you!

#189 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 03:58 PM | Reply

{Corky stamp}
You're a nazi-coddling brown booted neoliberal Trump Humper who marches with Robert Spencer, watches Fox News, loves Steven Bannon, white supremacists and racists, a 1% crony capitalist KKK science denying obfuscator, who has no arguments, only caricature.
{stamp}

Feel better now Corky?

#190 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-09-12 03:58 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

--But at least he didn't deny being a neoliberal

I'm not. That's corporate-globalist free trading Hillary "gold standard" Clinton

#191 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 03:58 PM | Reply

#188 still nada on topic, no argument, no nothing.... well, there's the Nulli -------, so I guess that's something.

#192 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 03:59 PM | Reply

-I'm not.

That's another claim, and then a caricature. You really don't have this debate thingy down at all even after all these years.

The claim is refuted by everything you've said the last couple of years, and the HDS caricature is just par for your course.

#193 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 04:01 PM | Reply

-- alt right

Have to add that to the stamp.

#194 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 04:01 PM | Reply

"But he misspelled "marketplace""

Sometimes, it just comes down to math.

For example, Actor's Equity has a percentage-of-operating-budget successful theatres use for performer costs. If a new or emerging theatre is way out of whack, AEA will either negotiate higher salaries (if the % is too low) or, more likely, warn them it's too high. Why? Because no one wins when the operation goes out of business.

#195 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-09-12 04:02 PM | Reply

Only a neoliberal, btw, would argue the sanctity of the law of supply and demand and the inevitability and effectiveness of the "free market"... which doesn't exist anyway.

#196 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 04:03 PM | Reply

#194

Pls, go ahead. I mean, you have so little these days, I hate to see you ever more so devolved and diminished. If making a stamp is all you can do, make it the best stamp in the whole entire world!

#197 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 04:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Looks like I underestimated the Power of Comrade Dirk.

#186 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2018-09-12 03:54 PM | FLAG: | FUNNY: 1

And every post is a soaring triumph compared to your bumper stickers.

#198 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-12 04:07 PM | Reply

It's amazing to me that Corky is using neoliberal as a political slur, yet it was a defining term for the policies embraced by Bill Clinton, George Bush, Tony Blair, Angela Merkel and Barrack Obama and would have certainly been embraced by Queen Hillary as well had her coronation gone as planned.

TFF

#199 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-09-12 04:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Corky, Snoofy and Boydirk are truly the Three Stooges of the DR Left.

#200 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-09-12 04:12 PM | Reply

Corky, Snoofy and Boydirk are truly the Three Stooges of the DR Left.

#200 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER AT 2018-09-12 04:12 PM | FLAG:

Says the cut and paste 4chan troll.

#201 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-12 04:15 PM | Reply

Corky, why don't you branch out from Wikipedia once and a while to get a better handle on terms that you blithely throw around but barely understand:

IMF: Neoliberalism-Oversold?

#202 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-09-12 04:16 PM | Reply

#199

Ah, but then, the sun rising is amazing to you, too, so there's that.

America's most productive, and most fair, economies followed Keynesian economics, not the 19th century neoliberal laissez-faire corporate over government of, by, and for the people that you prefer.

Your lame caricatures, spelled correctly, of what Dem leaders fighting decades of Reaganomics might or might not have done notwithstanding.

You might want to stick to carrying Nulli's pi... er, water. Something you are good at.

#203 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 04:17 PM | Reply

"You are biting ankles because you are bored and don't have anything better to do."

I'm calling you out on your lies.
The real problem is you can't tell when you're lying.
That's how hard you believe the propaganda.

You think that if you have faith in something, that makes it true.

Your critical thinking skills are practically non-existent, or at the very best you've simply decided to turn them off when you post nonsense like we're all better off when you're free to negotiate to work for $10/hr while someone else works the same job for $35/hr. There's literally only one person who's better off there, it's the person who is taking advantage of you working for far less than you're worth. But its their money and their job to give, so you're naturally happy with anything you get from your economic superiors.

#204 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-12 04:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#202

More jocularity.... The IMF on the eb'ils of their basic philosophy of neoliberalism?

And I don't understand the concepts? You are a joke just waiting to be written.

#205 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 04:20 PM | Reply

Nulli is really trying hard to become the DRs newest Special Eddie.

He ignore posts directed at him.

He doesn't add to the conversation.

He's posting opinion as fact.

He's become a troll.

Sad.

#206 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-09-12 04:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

--#206 | Posted by ClownShack

You think gold under the towers was stolen by the Mossad before they destroyed it, so, salt peanuts.

#207 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 04:26 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

v.4:

{Corky stamp}
You're an alt-right nazi-coddling brown booted neoliberal Trump Humper who marches with Robert Spencer, watches Fox News, loves Steven Bannon, white supremacists and racists, a 1% crony capitalist KKK science denying obfuscator, who has no arguments, only caricature.
{stamp}

#208 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-09-12 04:26 PM | Reply

I just wish Andrea would come back to Bill O'.

He's totally lost without her.

#209 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 04:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

critical thinking skills

#204 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-12 04:19 PM | Reply | Flag: Posted by Snoofy

#210 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 04:28 PM | Reply

I mean, honestly, RoCheney is trying, but he's no Mackris.

#211 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 04:29 PM | Reply

Here's how it goes JeffJ:

You spout your lies.
I come along and refute your lies.
You give up defending your lies and start attacking me.

Been this way for about three years now.

#212 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-12 04:30 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Corky, Snoofy and Boydirk lecturing the DR about, well, anything.

#213 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-09-12 04:30 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

#213 |

Ah, finally an argument.... no, wait. Never mind.

#214 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 04:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You have it backwards. A free market maximizes choices and maximizes freedom.

#159 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-09-12 03:15 PM |

We don't have a free market and republican policies are making it less free.

#215 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-09-12 04:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

This thread is tremendously big and tremendously wet.

Thank you.

#216 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2018-09-12 04:33 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

This thread is tremendously big and tremendously wet.
Thank you.

#216 | POSTED BY SCHIFFERBRAINS AT 2018-09-12 04:33 PM | FLAG:

Not true. My tremendously big panties are still tremendously dry so..............

#217 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-09-12 04:35 PM | Reply

- We don't have a free market

Neither does anyone else. It's like a rwing snipe hunt... doesn't exist except in the minds of some morons.

#218 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 04:35 PM | Reply

I'd like to ask JeffJ if a slave buying his own freedom is an example of the free market maximizing freedom.

#219 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-12 04:36 PM | Reply

First this:

In Corkyworld, if you have anything to say that is positive about the economy, trade, international relations, etc. you are automatically a Trump supporter...and then he accuses you of either an ad hominum attack or posting without substance and declares victory.

Followed by these:

Still no argument, only caricature.

#150 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2018-09-12 03:04 PM

When one spends their days here obfuscating and deflecting for rwing policy, Nazi Marchers, and Donald Trump's lunacy and lies, they've made themselves into Trump Humpers.

#152 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2018-09-12 03:07 PM

Says the Pres of Lawyers Sans Arguments.

#157 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2018-09-12 03:11 PM

Dulli is a prominent White Social Injustice Warrior.... and Red Scare Monger.

#180 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2018-09-12 03:45 PM

Worse, though, he's posted a couple of times here, and still with no argument to anything that's been said on topic whatsoever.

#187 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2018-09-12 03:54 PM

188 still nada on topic, no argument, no nothing

#192 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2018-09-12 03:59 PM

Your lame caricatures, spelled correctly, of what Dem leaders fighting decades of Reaganomics might or might not have done notwithstanding.

#203 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2018-09-12 04:17 PM

Ah, finally an argument.... no, wait. Never mind.

#214 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2018-09-12 04:32 PM

And the beat goes (very predictably) on.

#220 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-09-12 04:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

--And the beat goes (very predictably) on.

vignette.wikia.nocookie.net

#221 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 04:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#220

Wow, how come I only get the incompetent stalkers?

A competent, and honest, stalker would not have selectively edited out all the fact-based substantive posts I made. And would have admitted to posting nothing on substantive himself... or at least a 10 to 1 ratio. Sad.

#221

Takes a stooge to C&P one. But when it's all ya got, it's all ya got. Stamps and clips. More sadness.

I don't remember when RoCheney was ever creative, but Bill 0' was once upon time. But that's when he had Mackris to tickle his fancy.... in the shower.

Now he's just a shell of his former self... a rwing shell. Like a nut.

#222 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 04:56 PM | Reply

selectively edited out all the fact-based substantive posts I made

You mean the wikipedia cut and pastes? LMAO

#223 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-09-12 05:07 PM | Reply

"You have the ability to negotiate the price of a gallon of gas at the Texaco"

No but I can go across the street and buy the gas which means that the consumer has some power in the transaction.

This assumes that there are competitive gas stations in the area.

I'm not trying to argue the consumers have some vast amount of purchasing power in negotiation power that they do not have, in reality
I'm not trying to argue the consumers have some vast amount of purchasing power in negotiation power that they do not have, in reality.

Rather, I'm just calling out the stupid analogy

#224 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-12 05:16 PM | Reply

"You have the ability to negotiate the price of a gallon of gas at the Texaco"

"No but I can go across the street and buy the gas which means that the consumer has some power in the transaction."

Sure.

And if McDonald's offers you less than your desired wage, you can go across the street to Burger King "which means that the employee has some power in the transaction."

Analogy seems fine to me.

But, to give you something to do, I would like fries with that analogy.

#225 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-12 05:23 PM | Reply

- I can go across the street and buy the gas

As if there would be more than 2 cents difference, if any difference at all The illusion of choice is just that in most cases that count.

#226 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-12 08:12 PM | Reply

But a 1/2 mile away it is 40 cents cheaper (at least that happens here on the West side of LA), so you do have a choice. Same thing with the McDonalds, if you go two miles away you can apply at the In-n-Out, they pay $1.50 more per hour, so there is competition.

Best current example of the free market at work is how Uber demolished the taxicab monopoly, they were undercutting the shield holders by up to 70%, which forced the cab companies to drop their prices and become more customer friendly.

Name an unregulated industry, I will give you an example.

#227 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-09-12 08:43 PM | Reply

Go to the Enterprise Rent a Car on Wilshire at 17th, starting wage for a Management Trainee (what they call their desk people) is $36K. Less than 1/4 mile away, at Hertz on Santa Monica Blvd., the Manager Trainee (same position) is $26K.

#228 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-09-12 08:46 PM | Reply

You think gold under the towers was stolen by the Mossad before they destroyed it, so, salt peanuts.
#207 | POSTED BY SPECIAL NULLI

You suck at trolling.

At least you're consistent when it comes not being good at anything.

#229 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-09-12 08:54 PM | Reply

#229

But you do believe that, at least that is what you said yesterday.

#230 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-09-12 08:55 PM | Reply

But you do believe that, at least that is what you said yesterday.
#230 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

Citation necessary, stupid.

But I'm sure Nulli is appreciative of you running to his defense.

He's always counted on the help of strange men to handle his business for him.

#231 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-09-12 08:59 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

--Citation necessary, stupid.

I'm exaggerating. But you did say the gold was moved by some sinister figures who knew the attack was coming, and you did claim a "controlled demolition" by some sinister figures.

#232 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-12 09:03 PM | Reply

The day we learned when a build gets hit from one side, it falls down on itself, demolition style.

...

The day after all the gold stored under the twin towers was moved.

POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2018-09-11 12:12 PM

Those are your words, correct?

My bad on the Mossad part, I conflated your idiotic comments with Nulli's snark.

#233 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-09-12 09:41 PM | Reply

Yeah...so long as we're willing to pay higher prices.

#234 | Posted by Billjohnson at 2018-09-12 10:15 PM | Reply

"As if there would be more than 2 cents difference, if any difference at all The illusion of choice is just that in most cases that count."

Well, it's actually the reality of the marketplace.

Maybe it's cheaper soda or beer or candy that draws you across the street. Or cleaner bathrooms.

But it's not an illusion. It's really a choice.

#235 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-12 10:17 PM | Reply

Nothing comes for free. Increased wages will be felt somewhere.

#236 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2018-09-12 10:18 PM | Reply

"Best current example of the free market at work is how Uber demolished the taxicab monopoly"

By operating an unlicensed taxi service.
Uber is not an example of the free market at work.
Unless your definition of "free market" is: It's better to ask forgiveness than beg permission.

"Name an unregulated industry"

Taxicabs. Not an unregulated industry. Your own words contradict the point you're trying to make.

#237 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-12 10:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"But I'm sure Nulli is appreciative of you running to his defense. "

Not nearly as appreciative as boydstraun is when you show up to share in the beating you take with him.

#238 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-12 10:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Nothing comes for free. Increased wages will be felt somewhere.
#236 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2018-09-12 10:18 PM |

DeVos will have to settle for 10 yachts instead of 11?

That's basically where we're at in America.

#239 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-09-12 10:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Another idiot that fetishizes "experts"
#137 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

DR posters on both sides of the aisle denigrate anyone they consider a hoplophobe and rely on themselves as the gun experts to legitimize said denigration. So yes, another idiot on the DR that fetishes "experts," of which I am sure you are one.

#240 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2018-09-12 10:24 PM | Reply

"Increased wages will be felt somewhere."

At least a portion will be felt by the workers, yes?

#241 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-09-12 10:30 PM | Reply

"Increased wages will be felt somewhere."
At least a portion will be felt by the workers, yes?

POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2018-09-12 10:30 PM | REPLY

Yep and the economy would be stimulated even more so it's a win win.

#242 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-09-12 10:32 PM | Reply

#237

It's cute that you don't realize how hard you are flailing.

#243 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-09-12 10:37 PM | Reply

Is it as cute as you not realizing taxicabs are a regulated industry?

#244 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-12 10:39 PM | Reply

I drove a cab for about a year, I even threw a semi regulated industry in there, sorry you couldn't see the point.

Flail away little man.

#245 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-09-12 10:41 PM | Reply

You're right, I couldn't see the point.
What's the point?

#246 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-12 10:46 PM | Reply

"I drove a cab for about a year,"

That kind of makes it worse, Rightostupid. Like your claiming to be a lawyer yet being ignorant of basic legal concepts.

#247 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-12 10:47 PM | Reply

"But it's not an illusion. It's really a choice."

You are an impoverished soul indeed if that is your idea of choice.

#248 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-12 10:50 PM | Reply

"best current example of the free market at work is how Uber demolished the taxicab monopoly, they were undercutting the shield holders by up to 70%, which forced the cab companies to drop their prices and become more customer friendly."

Yes. Good example. Free market at work.

#249 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-12 10:53 PM | Reply

248

The gas station idea wasn't mine.

You have a choice. Make it.

It doesn't mean you'll save 40% with one choice.

I've discovered that folks like you hate choice.

You want decisions made for you.

#250 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-12 10:55 PM | Reply

Wait, I swear I plonked that -------- Boydtard.

#251 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-12 10:58 PM | Reply

"If you override the laws of supply and demand there would be no negative consequences.
#81 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN"

Say what? How does that follow?

#252 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2018-09-13 01:01 AM | Reply

Wait, I swear I plonked that -------- Boydtard.

#251 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2018-09-12 10:58 PM | FLAG:

Add that to the long list of things you are lousy at, Ebb Early. And you still manage to mistake me for Boyd. Sad.

#253 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-13 01:01 AM | Reply

I've discovered that folks like you hate choice.
You want decisions made for you.

#250 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2018-09-12 10:55 PM | FLAG:

Just the opposite, stupid. You are the one who is okay with surrendering choice to the market.

#254 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-13 01:03 AM | Reply

I conflated your idiotic comments with Nulli's snark.
#233 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

All good, you're stupid.

#255 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-09-13 01:04 AM | Reply

LOL, the guy who thinks that gold was removed from the WTC deliberately on 9/10 calls me stupid.

You are as lame as Boydirk, and that is saying something.

#256 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-09-13 01:07 AM | Reply

"But I'm sure Nulli is appreciative of you running to his defense."

Not nearly as appreciative as boydstraun is when you show up to share in the beating you take with him.
#238 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Wow. I really chapped your hide when I pointed you had spent an entire thread trolling Dirk.

I'd recommend some butt paste. That rash must burn.

#257 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-09-13 01:08 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

You are as lame as Boydirk, and that is saying something.

#256 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER AT 2018-09-13 01:07 AM | FLAG:

Looks like I am living rent free in Rightostupid's head... at least there is plenty of empty space.

#258 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-13 01:11 AM | Reply | Funny: 2

LOL, the guy who thinks that gold was removed from the WTC deliberately on 9/10 calls me stupid.

Gold was moved out from the vaults under the towers prior to the event. Deliberately or not.

You are as lame as Boydirk, and that is saying something.
#256 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

I'm as lame as the guy you're obsessed with?

You and Eberly love Dirk.

I don't think you two value how much you need him, in order for you to achieve the DR experience you're seeking.

#259 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-09-13 01:37 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

This thread reminds me of why i left this --------. That and getting doxxed by Jackass. Either way, peace out ---------.

#260 | Posted by JOE at 2018-09-13 02:00 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Nothing comes for free. Increased wages will be felt somewhere.
#236 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON AT 2018-09-12 10:18 PM |"

Nothing true about that as the rise of the middle class since 1933 clearly showed. By your logic, as wages rose the nation as a whole should have gotten poorer when exactly the opposite happened. By your logic, India would be a rich nation. In a market economy if the people don't have any money to spend the economy cannot grow. Yes, the stock market will grow a huge bubble but the stock market is not the economy.

#261 | Posted by danni at 2018-09-13 07:07 AM | Reply

You claim that the laws of supply and demand are irrefutable and unchangeable and nothing can be done about it we just have to live with the "fact" that the laws of supply and demand require millions of people to work for next to nothing. In your own words:

Every job cant pay a living wage.

#24 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2018-09-11 06:49 PM | REPLY |

That is demonstrably false. In our own country a minimum wage job could raise a family 40 years ago. In European nations an Australia there are no jobs that pay non-living wages.

Every job CAN pay a living wage. You just have to create a business plan that doesn't use underpaying the workers as the only source of profit. In Australia McDonald's is a sit down restaraunt. You are served on a plate by a server making wages that allow them to pay the rent without asking for handouts. You order from a kiosk (EEEK AUTOMATION!!!!) but then instead of handing you a bag you are served on a wooden plank with metal silverware. So they got rid of counter help but added dishwashers, buspersons, servers, and, due to a much more varied menu, extra line cooks.

According to the American right this would be armageddon. The franchises would be bankrupted in hours!! Instead McDonald's Australia is in the midst of 6 quarters of solid growth while McDonald's in America are in their 20th quarter of declining sales.

Everything Boaz "knows" about how the economy works just aint true

#262 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-09-13 09:42 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

In Australia McDonald's is a sit down restaraunt. - #262 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-09-13 09:42 AM |
Australia's minimum wage is a scale based on age up to 21 years old. Those under 16 make 36.8% of the 'minimum wage'. If America moved towards this sort of policy, would you be ok with those under 21 making lower than minimum wage?
www.minimum-wage.org

#263 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-09-13 09:52 AM | Reply

--In our own country a minimum wage job could raise a family 40 years ago

Preposterous. I worked some minimum wage jobs in high school and freshman college. It was barely enough to pay for gasoline, girls, weed and booze.

#264 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-13 09:53 AM | Reply

"In our own country a minimum wage job could raise a family 40 years ago." - #262 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-09-13 09:42 AM

Good call:

The Minimum Wage Used To Be Enough To Keep Workers Out Of Poverty -- It's Not Anymore

[snip] Up until the early 1980s, an annual minimum-wage income -- after adjusting for inflation -- was enough to keep a family of two above the poverty line. At its high point in 1968, the minimum wage was high enough for a family of three to be above the poverty line with the earnings of a full-time minimum-wage worker, although it still fell short for a family of four.

graph

They must have skipped that bit of factual history at CNU*.

* CliffNotes University

#265 | Posted by Hans at 2018-09-13 10:17 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"...you had spent an entire thread putting up with the trolltard, BoydDirk"

FTFY

#266 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-13 10:19 AM | Reply

--trolltard,

Abelist slur!
--Comrade Dirk

#267 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-13 10:27 AM | Reply

-Up until the early 1980s, an annual minimum-wage income -- after adjusting for inflation -- was enough to keep a family of two above the poverty line. At its high point in 1968, the minimum wage was high enough for a family of three to be above the poverty line with the earnings of a full-time minimum-wage worker, although it still fell short for a family of four.

Fair enough....but did the poverty line accurately represent what it really took to raise a family of 3 in 1968? I know there has been arguments made in the past regarding where the poverty line was set and if it's reflected the actual amount of people in poverty.

just a question....not a deflection or an argument that the information is false......

#268 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-13 10:34 AM | Reply

- It was barely enough to pay for gasoline, girls, weed and booze.

Because that's what you spent it on rather than raise a family.

SO now we have Neolibfidian railing against the efficacy of the min wage. My. how the turd has turned.

#269 | Posted by Corky at 2018-09-13 12:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

In Australia McDonald's is a sit down restaraunt. - #262 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-09-13 09:42 AM |
Australia's minimum wage is a scale based on age up to 21 years old. Those under 16 make 36.8% of the 'minimum wage'. If America moved towards this sort of policy, would you be ok with those under 21 making lower than minimum wage?
www.minimum-wage.org

#263 | POSTED BY AVIGDORE AT 2018-09-13 09:52 AM |

Yes I would. The problem we have is 40 million full time jobs that pay less than $10 an hour. There aren't enough kids to fill them.

WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT KIDS. We are talking about permanent full time jobs. There are about 3.5 million kids of each age. There are only 17.5 million kids in the 16-21 age group. They all have school too so expecting them to fill full time positions is idiotic. In many states when school is in session 16 and 17 year olds cannot work later than 7 pm by law. If half of the 16-21 year olds work full time (unlikely) and ALL of the rest work half time you will still have 28 million full time jobs of this type unfilled. They can ONLY be filled by people over the age of 21.

We could only talk about these as starter jobs if there were less jobs than starter workers. There are not 40 million 15 year olds that can turn 16 and take these jobs next year. There are also not 40 million next rung on the ladder jobs that these people can move into because of experience gained on these jobs. These are full time jobs but they often have variable schedules that make getting education or training for a better job difficult.

If you want to negotiate a starter wage temporarily while people get trained for a better position thats fine. If you want to pay 16 and 17 year olds a starter wage that is negotiable too but don't pretend that ALL of these jobs are starter jobs for kids. They aren't. They are permanent jobs and generate billions in revenue and the workers that do them are not asking you to make them rich just give them enough to live.

It works everywhere it has been tried. Evidence does not support the doom and gloom of the right wing.

#270 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-09-13 12:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"..did the poverty line accurately represent what it really took to raise a family of 3 in 1968?" - #268 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-13 10:34 AM

Ebs, I found that the poverty line is defined as "the minimum level of income deemed adequate in a particular country."

In 1968 the minimum was was $19,553 for a full-time (40 hours a week) worker (in 2013 dollars, date of the article I referenced in my #265). That was $777.00 more than the poverty line (for a family of 3), and almost $3,500.00 more than the poverty line (for a family of 2).

I would say that the poverty line represents an objective way of measuring the value the minimum wage. In other words, the minimum needed for transportation (to/from work for the breadwinner), food and shelter for a given family size.

But, the part "what it really took to raise a family of 3" becomes very subjective. That minimum wage probably did not, for example, allow for things like birthday presents and vacations, things that some would argue is part and parcel of the cost to "raise a family."

#271 | Posted by Hans at 2018-09-13 12:51 PM | Reply

"Fair enough....but did the poverty line accurately represent what it really took to raise a family of 3 in 1968?"

Does it in 2018?
Why not extend your pettifogging into the present day, Eberly?

#272 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-13 02:44 PM | Reply

271

Thanks, Hans. I appreciate the time and attention to your thoughtful answer.

272

You're a complete --------. Never respond to me again with your purse swinging hysteria.

The question "does it in 2018?" is a good question, BTW. But you are still and will never be anything but a complete --------.

#273 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-13 02:50 PM | Reply

"The question "does it in 2018?" is a good question"

I don't know how good it was, but it was remarkably effective at at sending you into a tizzy.
What's up with that? You go from zero to 100MPH of drama in one post.
Are you quitting smoking or something? Why the freakshow?

#274 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-13 03:00 PM | Reply

Why the freakshow?

#274 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2018-09-13 03:00 PM | FLAG:

You act like this is a new development.

#275 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-13 03:12 PM | Reply

I'm a lot more interested in why, than when.
I think Eberly's hostility is a reflection of something himself.
He even said it was a good question, so clearly, this is a personal thing for him.
I'm just wondering what that thing is.
Maybe it's all just an act.

#276 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-13 03:14 PM | Reply

(something in himself)

#277 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-13 03:14 PM | Reply

2 fellas can't get over the fact I consider them worthless trolls and nothing more.

that opinion is not just mine, BTW.

you're both worthless trolls.

don't ever address me again, please.

#278 | Posted by eberly at 2018-09-13 03:27 PM | Reply

you're both worthless trolls.
don't ever address me again, please.

#278 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2018-09-13 03:27 PM | FLAG:

Is that "faux outrage." Since you are the self proclaimed expert and all.

#279 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-09-13 03:38 PM | Reply

"2 fellas can't get over the fact I consider them worthless trolls and nothing more."

Make that three.
You're the one who brought it up.
Give yourself some credit!

Also, "fellas?" How dare you assume I have a gender! Can you ever NOT oppress??

#280 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-13 04:56 PM | Reply

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