Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Saturday, September 08, 2018

Aaron Rupar: On Friday, Apple announced that in response to the $200 billion in tariffs that the Trump administration plans to slap on Chinese goods, the company will raise prices on a number of products, including the Apple Watch, AirPods and Apple Pencil. "Our concerns with these tariffs is that the U.S. will be the hardest hit, and that will result in lower U.S. growth and competitiveness and higher prices for U.S. consumers," the company said in a letter to the U.S. trade representative.

More

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

While I would love to see US-home based companies manufacture in the US, placing extra taxes upon American consumers (the vast majority of which are paid for out of already stagnant or negative wage growth) will certainly lead to less consumer spending and a slowdown in the domestic GDP. These tariffs aren't hurting the foreign countries as much as they are US exporters and consumers which makes no sense whatsoever.

#1 | Posted by tonyroma at 2018-09-08 07:00 PM | Reply

While I would love to agree with you Tony, because you are certainly a brilliant person, I do disagree. Tariffs served to protect American jobs for 200 years and they can do the same again. All the other nations we compete with are doing the same thing but they are just calling it VAT which is what we probably should have done too. As with many complicated products, such as autos or phones, parts come from various parts of the world to be assembled, VAT increases the cost accordingly and makes manufacturing in the U.S. much more attractive. Manufacture all the parts of your phone or your car here and avoid all those taxes. Sorry but, we can't afford a 500 billion dollar trade deficit with China and even if consumers have to pay more and buy less I still beleive we have to deal with the trade imbalance....even if that makes me agree with Trump on something.
Liberals, Progressives, Independents and Democrats all need to understand one thing....Trump is President today because he supported protectionism and I agree with him on that. I told everyone here that he won the election when he first announced his willingness to enact tariffs long before he even got the nomination. Rust belt, formerly Democrat, voters were waiting for someone to come along and rescue them. It remains to be seen if it really will but the perception is that at least he's trying. My party didn't do anything for those folks for 30 years. His tax cuts for the rich though, sort of undermine his ideas of rebuilding manufacturing here. When taxes are so low there is no incentive to invest in expensive factories.

#2 | Posted by danni at 2018-09-08 07:35 PM | Reply

Danni,

I live in the center of the heartland and I work closely with over 50+ union locals in most fields including many in manufacturing. Tariffs are destroying what's left of middle America because the world doesn't play under the rules of engagement that you prefer. Trump has no background in industry nor does he have any background in manufacturing outside of procuring his own branded garbage mainly from foreign suppliers. Trump was able to win the EC for a number of factors but anyone believing that he truly cares about US workers is deluded. Trump has built his empire on exploiting US workers and paying as little as possible if at all. He is economically ignorant and I'm sure you can see that. The people and advisors he surrounded himself with have never been allied with workers or interested in advancing their causes. I have been inside the Carrier plant controversy and am a personal friend of the former local president who called Trump on his BS even though many of his union workers believed just as you recited. Most no longer believe what they did because the reality on the ground is far from the picture Trump lied to sell.

The problem with mainly white workers in middle America is that they have been sold the fiction that the Democratic party is more concerned with issues dealing with minorities than they are with the concerns you mention. The truth is all of the concerns roiling the minority communities are the exact same ones affecting working class whites, but they refuse to understand the Reagan cliche that a rising tide lifts all boats when simple physics dictates that it does. Focusing on those with the worst problems is not ignoring the needs of those with related problems. US businesses are making record profits and most companies could invest a percentage of their profits towards supporting their personal infrastructures, aka the workers. It doesn't take tariffs, it takes targeted tax policies and this is where we separate. If you want to incentivize US manufacturing and production, then alter the tax code accordingly, don't force struggling Americans to fund their own demise.

There is only one way to view tariffs on imported goods and that is a tax placed upon consumers which minimizes their purchasing power and can be absorbed by companies like Apple by raising their prices. This does not help improve the domestic situation, it will eventually destroy it. There certainly are needs for better trade agreements including wages and working conditions in emerging countries, but trade wars lead to hot wars and this is something that you as a historian should be well aware of. Unfettered trade is a key component in keeping the relative peace amongst nations, and it's been one of the main reasons for the continued growth and prosperity we've enjoyed as the top economic engine on the planet. We just need politicians willing to tweek our tax code so that more of that prosperity is shared with the workers who create and maintain it.

#3 | Posted by tonyroma at 2018-09-08 08:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

If you want to incentivize US manufacturing and production, then alter the tax code accordingly, don't force struggling Americans to fund their own demise.

Bingo.

Tariffs sound like simple solutions but we're seeing they don't work as planned.

#4 | Posted by jpw at 2018-09-08 10:24 PM | Reply

I am in China now and it has been an eye opener. I agree with Danni that the trade imbalance needs to be addressed, but I don't think tariffs alone will work.
Chinese are mad for iPhones, the Apple stores are huge and packed. I suspect Apple could sell more iPhones in China than the USA. Tariffs might push Apple out of the USA rather than bring phone manufacturing to it.
The world has changed. While the USA has squandered its wealth on wars that were no benefit to average Americans, China has transformed. Its infrastructure is more advanced than the USA. The USA should raise taxes to build 21 century infrastructure and create good jobs. Tariffs are a consumer tax on imports and an export tax rolled into one. That will not benefit average workers.

#5 | Posted by bored at 2018-09-08 10:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

The world has changed. While the USA has squandered its wealth on wars that were no benefit to average Americans, China has transformed. Its infrastructure is more advanced than the USA. The USA should raise taxes to build 21 century infrastructure and create good jobs. Tariffs are a consumer tax on imports and an export tax rolled into one. That will not benefit average workers.

Shhhhhh that can't be true cuz 'Murica!

#6 | Posted by jpw at 2018-09-08 10:34 PM | Reply | Funny: 5

Sorry to hear Apple will only clear millions instead of billions because of tariffs.
Corporatist monolith money printers and swamp monsters will stuff their pockets while states tell foodstamp recipients to go out and find a job.

The coal dust stole my grandads breath away - Fish
www.youtube.com

#7 | Posted by ajwood at 2018-09-09 03:07 AM | Reply

Tariffs sound like simple solutions but we're seeing they don't work as planned.

Tariffs change the offshoring equation i.e. is the benefit of offshoring worth the additional tariff(s). Tariffs just might prevent some companies from moving their manufacturing operations over seas.

Many companies such as Apple have already offshored their manufacturing but, because of tariffs, they still have a decision to make: Will the tariffs affect their sales to the point that they should bring manufacturing back to the US or should they abandon the market? Not enough time has passed for these questions to be answered.

I would agree, tax policy is the best way to handle this; just reverse the perverse incentives that caused US companies to outsource in the first place. However, getting Congress to agree to a change in tax policy would be very difficult.

I don't agree with Trump on much, but I do agree with him on tariffs. However, with just about everything Trump touches, it was done incompetently. The tariff war with China should be fought in the open to demonstrate the seriousness of the issue. However, private negotiations with our friends and allies should have been held to resolve our trade disputes amicably.

#8 | Posted by FedUpWithPols at 2018-09-09 03:27 AM | Reply

with our friends and allies

Oh we got some of those left? No?

Try looking between the sofa cushions.

#9 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2018-09-09 04:23 AM | Reply | Funny: 2

I would be the first to agree that Trump doesn't understand economics nor trade but we weren't doing ANYTHING about a 500 billion dollar yearly trade deficit. That has to be addressed. Like I've said here many times, most other nations are using VAT, we should be too. We need smart economists to help us create a system that causes manufacturing to return to the U.S. without totally bankrupting our consumers but our consumers will have to pay more. Cheap goods is not a road to happiness, it is a slow road to poverty.

"The problem with mainly white workers in middle America is that they have been sold the fiction that the Democratic party is more concerned with issues dealing with minorities than they are with the concerns you mention."

That message needs to be heard by the leaders of the Democratic Party. They need to hear it and absorb it. Not that I would like to step back from support for minorities, our Archie Bunkers need love too. They feel forgotten and left behind, we need to make them know that we want higher wages, more jobs, better conditions for them too. Oh wait, that's what unions do. Repeal Taft-Harley and fix America.

#10 | Posted by danni at 2018-09-09 06:00 AM | Reply

That message needs to be heard by the leaders of the Democratic Party. They need to hear it and absorb it.

We are living in a volatile political environment. You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic -- you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people -- now how 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks -- they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America.

But the other basket -- and I know this because I see friends from all over America here -- I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas -- as well as, you know, New York and California -- but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.

Hillary Clinton - September 9, 2016

Something like the bolded portion of this quotation? It's a fiction that the Democratic party ever abandoned the working class told by the very people enriching themselves by actually selling it out. Trump sold a white unicorn to white people largely through fear, not truth. White economic anxiety comes from the policies and actions of mainly white, male-dominated corporate America armed with billions of tax cut dollars they never earned nor deserved and lobbying groups like ALEC and the Koch network. That money could have been used to modernize America's infrastructure which would have led to gains for all citizens and have eventually show up as more black on business' bottom lines, but the GOP just cut the common man out of their equations for expediency's and greed's sake. Democrats aren't voting to gut worker's rights nor to install right-to-starve laws throughout state legislatures, that would be Republicans like Trump. Democrats aren't working to cut the legs out from the most effective political counterbalance to corporatism and worker exploitation which indeed are unions. That again would be the Republicans. Trump and his lies were never meant to improve the lives of the conned who believed him, they were just the latest tool of the very forces using every means possible to eliminate any political opposition to their unjust distribution of the profits realized through the sweat and toil of America's workforce.

#11 | Posted by tonyroma at 2018-09-09 08:45 AM | Reply

#3 Tony Roma Your essay is a brilliant summary of what's wrong; but the punchline is incomplete. The line to which I am referring is, "The problem with mainly white workers in middle America is that they have been sold the fiction that the Democratic party is more concerned with issues dealing with minorities than they are with the concerns you mention." Not just minorities, but also every person living in America who is not normalized, including all minorities of all nationalities and races, immigrants (both legal and illegal), and old people.

#12 | Posted by john47 at 2018-09-09 09:08 AM | Reply

#3 Tony Roma Your essay is a brilliant summary of what's wrong; but the punchline is incomplete. The line to which I am referring is, "The problem with mainly white workers in middle America is that they have been sold the fiction that the Democratic party is more concerned with issues dealing with minorities than they are with the concerns you mention." Not just minorities, but also every person living in America who is not normalized, including all minorities of all nationalities and races, immigrants (both legal and illegal), and old people.

POSTED BY JOHN47 AT 2018-09-09 09:08 AM | REPLY

The Democratic party lost its way when they began catering to corporate interests over the peoples interests. They moved to the right instead of staying left of center.

#13 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-09-09 09:14 AM | Reply

Quit worrying about when the Democratic party "lost it's way." We haven't lost our way. We've been battling the billionaires who want to destroy all the unions and put us all in fear for our jobs so that they can put us into poverty. Laura attacks those who are trying to defend workers and ignores those who attack us every single day and believes voting for Jill Stein is a way to build a better America. What rubbish. I hope Jill enjoyed her dinner with Putin.

#14 | Posted by danni at 2018-09-09 09:33 AM | Reply

Let's be clear. One party has defended worker's rights for many decades and one party has attacked them for many decades. It's pretty simple. If you can't figure it out then the problem is in your stupid head. Sorry to be blunt but not really.

#15 | Posted by danni at 2018-09-09 09:35 AM | Reply

nymag.com

The GOP understands how important labor unions are to the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party, historically, has not. If you want a two-sentence explanation for why the Midwest is turning red (and thus, why Donald Trump is president), you could do worse than that.

With its financial contributions and grassroots organizing, the labor movement helped give Democrats full control of the federal government three times in the last four decades. And all three of those times -- under Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and Barack Obama -- Democrats failed to pass labor law reforms that would to bolster the union cause. In hindsight, it's clear that the Democratic Party didn't merely betray organized labor with these failures, but also, itself.

Between 1978 and 2017, the union membership rate in the United States fell by more than half -- from 26 to 10.7 percent. Some of this decline probably couldn't have been averted -- or, at least, not by changes in labor law alone. The combination of resurgent economies in Europe and Japan, the United States' decidedly non-protectionist trade policies, and technological advances in shipping was bound to do a number on American unions. Global competition thinned profit margins for U.S. firms; cutting labor costs was one of the easiest ways to fatten 'em back up; and breaking unions (through persuasion, intimidation, or relocation) was one of the easiest ways to cut said costs.

#16 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-09-09 09:39 AM | Reply

Quit worrying about when the Democratic party "lost it's way." We haven't lost our way. We've been battling the billionaires who want to destroy all the unions and put us all in fear for our jobs so that they can put us into poverty. Laura attacks those who are trying to defend workers and ignores those who attack us every single day and believes voting for Jill Stein is a way to build a better America. What rubbish. I hope Jill enjoyed her dinner with Putin.

#14 | POSTED BY DANNI AT 2018-09-09 09:33 AM | FLAG:

Your Jill Stein screeching Danni is duly noted.

#17 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-09-09 09:40 AM | Reply

The Democratic party lost its way when they began catering to corporate interests over the peoples interests. They moved to the right instead of staying left of center.

You continue to show that you've never spent one second working inside any state or local Democratic party organization. You don't have a clue how they work and you'll never find out until you take your dupaiash off your couch/chair and put your feet on the ground and WORK. Your criticisms ring as hollow as your ignorance of how politics works in 2018 America.

No candidate can win any election without soliciting funding. NO ONE. Now, most people understand the concept of not digging for water in a dry hole, but I guess that gem of wisdom has escaped you. Nationally, the Democrats could not compete without soliciting money from the very people that have the most of it, and most of those people are going to want something in return for their investments (and make no mistake, donations on both sides come with strings, that's just politics). However, all the issues that Democrats agree with you on and proudly stand to protect your human rights to be who you want to be can only be actuated due to many Faustian bargains of degrees.

But locally, the story is different. Small donors are the lifeblood of campaigns all over America. These are the ones the Democratic Party organizations nurture and make viable. Many local/state Democrats aren't progressive liberals, they may have conservative leanings but not to the degree of their Republican counterparts and those degrees still make a huge difference in what laws are passed and policies are implemented. Throwing rocks at the structure because it doesn't fit your wishes is well and good but it does nothing. If you want to affect real change, come inside the tent and raise your concerns. Move others to sacrifice and donate money so that corporate blood money won't be necessary. You can do it, it's what I do. And my union affords me the opportunity to donate thousands of dollars to worker-friendly candidates in my state and community along with my coworkers in all 50 states. But what we do is still a small drop in the bucket, but we attach no strings and we make no demands. We donate because the candidates we support want to make things better for working Americans of all colors, creeds and stripes. And so does my local Democratic party operation and I know this because I work with its leaders almost every day.

#18 | Posted by tonyroma at 2018-09-09 09:40 AM | Reply

--The Democratic party lost its way when they began catering to corporate interests over the peoples interests.

As progressive journalist Thomas Frank put it, the Democrats have gone "from being the party of Decatur to the party of Martha's Vineyard."

#19 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-09 09:49 AM | Reply

Tonyt just stop with your BS. Take Obama. He bailed out wall street and left main street to twist in the wind. He didn't hold banksters accountable for shafting their customers. He put them in key positions to his administration. With all due respect Tony don't give me your long winded gobblygoop that can easily be eviscerated. Take Bill Clinton. He signed NAFTA for Pete sake.

#20 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-09-09 09:53 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

--Take Bill Clinton. He signed NAFTA for Pete sake.

What's even worse is that he gave China most-favored-nation status and approved their entrance to the WTO. The consequences to American workers have been devastating.

#21 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-09 09:59 AM | Reply

I would argue that the difference between paying $5/hr in China and $7.25/hr in the USA is not a deal breaker. The problem is that assembly factories are capital intensive long term investments made only when market size and interest rates favor doing so. They also require a chain of supply to operate efficiently. Once made the only way to pay for them is to run them. So to move or build a factory requires extensive planning and financing. Oftentimes closing financing takes longer than any other step. To close financing labor contracts and pricing contracts and trade deals that prove that the loan can be repaid are put in place. Risk analysis is then conducted. Thousands of decisions to move fabs to Mexico or China are not made overnight and they aren't coming back any time soon. They are always a long term commitment. Break those contracts and the lawsuits begin.

#22 | Posted by bayviking at 2018-09-09 10:03 AM | Reply

www.newsweek.com

Democrats have offered precious little to prevent people in the Rust Belt from feeling embattled and forgotten. More to the point, the Clintons are avatars of free trade, financialization and identity politics, a triumvirate of characteristics that associates them pretty directly with what many people associate with the causes of Rust Belt decline and crisis.

But it didn't matter that Democrats stood for these things when Republicans stood for most of them as well. When lines of political conflict were organized around abortion, guns and taxes, as the Republican operative Grover Norquist wanted, there was no room for a distinctively Rust Belt politics.

#23 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-09-09 10:08 AM | Reply

www.theguardian.com

Disaffected rust belt voters embraced Trump. They had no other hope
Richard C Longworth
Midwestern workers voted for Obama in 2012, but they have lost faith in the establishment. Trump echoed their resentments while promising change

#24 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-09-09 10:21 AM | Reply

What's even worse is that he gave China most-favored-nation status

Which President Bush then made permanent.

#25 | Posted by REDIAL at 2018-09-09 10:22 AM | Reply

"What's even worse is that he gave China most-favored-nation status and approved their entrance to the WTO. The consequences to American workers have been devastating."

Thanks, Capitalism.

#26 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-09 10:26 AM | Reply

--What's even worse is that he gave China most-favored-nation status

Which President Bush then made permanent."

So Clinton sucked as much as Bush. I agree.

#27 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-09-09 10:28 AM | Reply

So Clinton sucked as much as Bush. I agree.

Enjoy your lifetime of endless misery.

#28 | Posted by REDIAL at 2018-09-09 10:31 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Bush bailed out wall street.
Obama did tax cuts and infrastructure spending.
Obama couldn't hold wall street accountable because they didn't break laws, but he did put in new regulations to limit their shenanigans. Regulations that trump has now removed so banksters can't be held accountable again.

#29 | Posted by bored at 2018-09-09 10:36 AM | Reply

Obama couldn't hold wall street accountable because they didn't break laws, but he did put in new regulations to limit their shenanigans. Regulations that trump has now removed so banksters can't be held accountable again.

POSTED BY BORED AT 2018-09-09 10:36 AM | REPLY

WRONG Please do try again.

www.businessinsider.com

What this program particularly demonstrated was that the Obama justice department, in particular the Chief of its Criminal Division, Lanny Breuer, never even tried to hold the high-level criminals accountable.

What Obama justice officials did instead is exactly what they did in the face of high-level Bush era crimes of torture and warrantless eavesdropping: Namely, acted to protect the most powerful factions in the society in the face of overwhelming evidence of serious criminality. Indeed, financial elites were not only vested with impunity for their fraud, but thrived as a result of it, even as ordinary Americans continue to suffer the effects of that crisis.

Worst of all, Obama justice officials both shielded and feted these Wall Street oligarchs (who, just by the way, overwhelmingly supported Obama's 2008 presidential campaign) as they simultaneously prosecuted and imprisoned powerless Americans for far more trivial transgressions.

OOPSIE DAISY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#30 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-09-09 11:04 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Tonyt just stop with your BS. Take Obama.

Take a reading comprehension course! You ignored everything I said. Is Obama your local Democratic party? FFS, wake the hell up! You're bitching and moaning about NATIONAL issues when the point of my screed was lumping in the local/state organizations with the national organization (to which you make valid points, but you ignore that the votes were never there to enact the policies which you desired, and that's simply fact) whose main job is to solicit as much money from as many people as humanly possible. The Democratic Party is all the people in every state and locality who work to forward its goals, not the President or any congressional member per see. You're so focused on your own ire that you refuse to see that one thing is not like the other.

My personal experience is not "BS" Laura and I don't take kindly to your misplaced disrespect. Until you take your time and your money and put it toward making the changes you desire from within the only viable state/local party structure than can enact those changes, your words are little more than hot air. I canvassed in the rain yesterday for local Democratic state candidates even though the GOP currently holds supermajority status in our state legislature. Our issues won't be heard until we elect more people singing in unified voice. That's not going to happen by complaining about our former President, presidential candidates, and the outrageous influence of big-donor money upon our national politics even though those are valid criticisms, but in a wholly different discussion.

#31 | Posted by tonyroma at 2018-09-09 11:05 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

www.salon.com

Obama's hypocrisy: He said blame Wall Street, not food stamps -- but he bailed out bankers and cut help for the hungry
Why didn't Obama listen to his own advice? His State of the Union rhetoric directly contradicts his policies.

#32 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-09-09 11:08 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#32 - However President Obama did it, he gave our country and Donald Trump a recovering stable, economy. The rust belt companies moving manufacturing to less problematic labor markets is on those companies themselves. No one else.

#33 | Posted by getoffmedz at 2018-09-09 11:44 AM | Reply

www.theguardian.com

Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more
Robert Reich

At the start of the 2016 election cycle, this power structure proclaimed Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush shoo-ins for the nominations of the Democratic and Republican parties. After all, both of these individuals had deep bases of funders, well-established networks of political insiders, experienced political advisers and all the political name recognition any candidate could possibly want.

The Democratic party once represented the working class. But over the last three decades the party has been taken over by Washington-based fundraisers, bundlers, analysts, and pollsters who have focused instead on raising campaign money from corporate and Wall Street executives and getting votes from upper middle-class households in "swing" suburbs.

Democrats have occupied the White House for 16 of the last 24 years, and for four of those years had control of both houses of Congress. But in that time they failed to reverse the decline in working-class wages and economic security. Both Bill Clinton and Barack Obama ardently pushed for free trade agreements without providing millions of blue-collar workers who thereby lost their jobs means of getting new ones that paid at least as well.

MY WORDS FOLLOW

PAY ATTENTION TONY and for God sake get off your high horse. Your attitude is why we have Trump today. When you think the moneyed elite is more important than winning the hearts of average Americans. You lose. You and those like you lost it for Hillary becazse you were so worried about funding that you ignored the voter. You can have all the money in the world but if you don't also have the average American voter what good is it??

#34 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-09-09 01:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

When you think the moneyed elite is more important than winning the hearts of average Americans. You lose.

You do have reading problems because I haven't uttered one word of support for the moneyed elite in any of my posts! WTF is your problem? You keep putting words into my mouth that I've never uttered. Grow up and stop trying to place your hatred into my opposition of your ignorance. I'm working with average Americans every day and you sit on your butt acting like Keyboard MacArthur and trust me, you're not.

Local people comprise the Democratic Party, not the moneyed elites as you call them. There are no moneyed elites at the local level in the same sense of they influence and dominate the national party. Moneyed elites don't canvas. Moneyed elites don't phonebank. Moneyed elites don't post flyers and attend CLC meetings. You're wholly ignorant of how "real people" keep the Democratic Party viable and active at the local and state levels.

How many times do you have to be told that the national party is not the same as the people working in the Democratic Parties across all 50 states? That's the ONLY POINT I've been trying to cram into your closed mind. The real strength of every party comes from the ground up, not from the top down. The moneyed elites are at the top, not engaging fellow citizens in the streets and cities, preaching the very message we both believe the party has to to live up to what its core voters want nearly universally.

#35 | Posted by tonyroma at 2018-09-09 01:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

You do have reading problems because I haven't uttered one word of support for the moneyed elite in any of my posts! WTF is your problem? You keep putting words into my mouth that I've never uttered. Grow up and stop trying to place your hatred into my opposition of your ignorance. I'm working with average Americans every day and you sit on your butt acting like Keyboard MacArthur and trust me, you're not.

#35 | POSTED BY TONYROMA AT 2018-09-09 01:44 PM | FLAG:

No candidate can win any election without soliciting funding. NO ONE. Now, most people understand the concept of not digging for water in a dry hole, but I guess that gem of wisdom has escaped you. Nationally, the Democrats could not compete without soliciting money from the very people that have the most of it, and most of those people are going to want something in return for their investments (and make no mistake, donations on both sides come with strings, that's just politics). However, all the issues that Democrats agree with you on and proudly stand to protect your human rights to be who you want to be can only be actuated due to many Faustian bargains of degrees.

#18 | POSTED BY TONYROMA AT 2018-09-09 09:40 AM | FLAG:

OOPSIE DAISY Want to try again Tony???

#36 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-09-09 01:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#36

So an explanation is the same to you as an endorsement?

Got it.

Grow TF up Laura, you're getting worse than Sniper.

I haven't uttered one word of support for the moneyed elite in any of my posts!

Truth.

#37 | Posted by tonyroma at 2018-09-09 01:53 PM | Reply

And stop picking out one sentence and phrase while ignoring my overall points. It makes you look deluded and completely unable to accept or debate more than one idea at a time.

#38 | Posted by tonyroma at 2018-09-09 01:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

WOW 2 meaningless condescensions in a row Tony??? How lovely.

#39 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-09-09 01:57 PM | Reply

This is what I endorsed Laura:

Throwing rocks at the structure because it doesn't fit your wishes is well and good but it does nothing. If you want to affect real change, come inside the tent and raise your concerns. Move others to sacrifice and donate money so that corporate blood money won't be necessary. You can do it, it's what I do.
I guess you missed this part that followed the part you "ooopsie(d)".

#40 | Posted by tonyroma at 2018-09-09 02:00 PM | Reply

WOW 2 meaningless condescensions in a row Tony???

Only to those who actually READ before they shoot their mouths off in ignorance Laura.

#41 | Posted by tonyroma at 2018-09-09 02:01 PM | Reply

"... don't READ..." excuse me. Again, if you keep attacking me for things that I don't say expect to be called out for it.

#42 | Posted by tonyroma at 2018-09-09 02:04 PM | Reply

"The rust belt companies moving manufacturing to less problematic labor markets is on those companies themselves. No one else.
#33 | POSTED BY GETOFFMEDZ"

My man, you seriously need to take an economics class.

When corporations move entire factories overseas, it was the Invisible Hand of the Free Market that did it.

Thanks, Capitalism!

#43 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-09-09 03:19 PM | Reply

The populace needs top going after the poor and disenfranchised for the few pennies they have... and going after the rich who are robbing them blind. Its time to go after the 1% holding 1/2 the world's wealth ...its time for wealth redistribution and its time to get out the pitchforks if they refuse to comply.

#44 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2018-09-10 09:43 AM | Reply

If you want to incentivize US manufacturing and production, then alter the tax code accordingly, don't force struggling Americans to fund their own demise.

If they did that, it would eat into the private wealth of the 1%, so it ain't happening.

Instead the GOP will lie to the public and pass laws that make it more profitable to send manufacturing overseas through the overly complex tax code that no average voter can understand and then campaign on "how the new tax law is bringing jobs back to 'Murica!"

Much better to hit the middle class with tariffs that a) pay for the tax giveaway to the 1% and b) make good sound bites that "they are getting tough on Gyna" that low info voters eat up.

The GOP knows their audience.

#45 | Posted by 726 at 2018-09-10 11:07 AM | Reply

The USA should raise taxes to build 21 century infrastructure and create good jobs. Tariffs are a consumer tax on imports and an export tax rolled into one.

The GOP wants to make permanent the individual side of the tax scam that passed last December now before the election.

They can't use reconciliation this time, so it will fail in the Senate.

But look for them to aggressively campaign on how democrats want to raise taxes on everyone.

#46 | Posted by 726 at 2018-09-10 11:10 AM | Reply

So Apple has two choices:

1. Raise prices to pay for the tariffs.
2. Move production here and raise prices even more to cover the extra costs of manufacturing here.

End Result: Prices go up for US Consumers and they have less money to spend on other products across the market. Demand goes down everywhere. We get a couple Apple jobs maybe but lose far jobs in other sectors.

How do we know this:
1. Math and basic Economics.
2. History. We did this with steel in 2002 under Bush. We lost 10 times as many jobs in other sectors due to the price increases as we gained in steel plants.

Fact: Most tariffs are counter-productive.

#47 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-09-10 01:44 PM | Reply

Fact: Most tariffs are counter-productive.

#47 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

Yep

#48 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-09-10 01:58 PM | Reply

Comments are closed for this entry.

Home | Breaking News | Comments | User Blogs | Stats | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Privacy | Copyright 2018 World Readable

Drudge Retort