Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, August 06, 2018

A white man kills a black man over a parking spot. Doesn't even get arrested. A black woman defends herself from an abusive husband attacking her yet again and goes to jail. www.wonkette.com "in the decade after Florida enacted the law, murders increased 22%, with a 75% hike in justifiable homicides. Nationwide, states with stand your ground witnessed a 53% average increase in the justifiable homicide rate after passage of the law. Meanwhile, states that did not enact the law experienced an average decline of 5% in justifiable homicides during the same period" Those fact things rearing their leftist head again

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Yea, the black woman had a restraining order out, but she choose to let the guy back into her home while it was active.

Decisions.

#1 | Posted by boaz at 2018-08-06 09:45 AM | Reply

And I'm not saying she didnt have a right to defend herself. I actually think she shouldnt have been arrested, asuming she can prove he was about to kill her or she was scared for her life. But why let the abuser back in? She could have taken better actions to ensure she wasnt hurt, like not being around the abuser.

#2 | Posted by boaz at 2018-08-06 09:46 AM | Reply

...states with stand your ground witnessed a 53% average increase in the justifiable homicide rate...

That's what they want. The folks backing these laws are just itchin' to kill someone and SYG helps make that possible.

#3 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2018-08-06 10:22 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 7

3

Agree with that.

I think the problem with 'stand your ground' is it really is not necessary, and worse, I have serious doubts that most permit holder's understand it, much less take the time to understand the legalese involved with it. Legalese which borders on contradiction of itself at times even, depending on the state.

I've had a Glock aimed at my chest from 10 feet away, & on my own property, & for no reason other than to attempt to scare me (illegal btw), and having made no threats verbal or otherwise or even raised my voice. The situation is a long story, of course, but it comes down to a bunch of BS, in the interest of brevity.

Stand your ground contains all the same wording and reasoning one would find in gun laws if it were not even a part of them. IOW's, it is almost as if the term was created & inserted into the laws with specific intent, IMO. I mean come on, take 1,000 people and ask them what that phrase means in their opinion, and I'm betting a very high percentage of them will essentially say, 'prepare to fire & fire when you deem it necessary'.

#4 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-08-06 02:41 PM | Reply

#4 you are not credible. sorry not sorry.

#5 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2018-08-06 02:54 PM | Reply

I actually think she shouldnt have been arrested, asuming she can prove he was about to kill her or she was scared for her life.

#2 | Posted by boaz

That's the point of the article. Black people have to prove this. White people just have the cops and judges take their word for it.

#6 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-08-06 02:56 PM | Reply

#6,

Actually no.

The white person in this article had video to back them up.

Otherwise, it's he said she said.

#7 | Posted by boaz at 2018-08-06 02:58 PM | Reply

Otherwise, it's he said she said.

#7 | Posted by boaz

The stats tell a racist story.

"when both the shooter and victim are white, 11% of these cases are ruled justifiable. When both parties are black, the rate is 8%. However, when the shooter is white and the victim is black, the rate of justifiable homicide is 34%. But when the shooter is black and the victim is white, that rate is only 3%. "

#8 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-08-06 03:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 6

Of course lowering the qualifications for "justifiable" would make the rate go up.

#9 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2018-08-06 03:09 PM | Reply

We would have to look at the specifics of each case, though, Speak..

I would bet nine times out of 10, in the black vs white thing, it's probably a robbery by the black person robbing or assaulting the white guy.

#10 | Posted by boaz at 2018-08-06 03:33 PM | Reply

5

Unless you qualify that statement with reasoning, it stands as a simple opinion.

So, it should read similar to, 'I don't think you are credible.' Even then I would still ask you why you think not?

#11 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-08-06 03:36 PM | Reply

I would bet nine times out of 10, in the black vs white thing, it's probably a robbery by the black person robbing or assaulting the white guy.

#10 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2018-08-06 03:33 PM | REPLY

That's quite a telling bet. It implies that you also bet that when blacks stand their ground against whites they are NOT being robbed or assaulted? If not then there is still no explanation for the 1100% difference in rulings.

Care to elaborate?

#12 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-08-06 03:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It implies that you also bet that when blacks stand their ground against whites they are NOT being robbed or assaulted?

Yep. That's why we would have to see the actual data.

#13 | Posted by boaz at 2018-08-06 04:22 PM | Reply

"Nationwide, states with stand your ground witnessed a 53% average increase in the justifiable homicide rate after passage of the law."

Again, I say the SYG provision is not needed. If the laws in each state required a permit holder to retreat 1st, if possible, the only thing left when it is not possible to do so would be to SYG. At that point it becomes a question of self defense, a crime being committed, an immediate threat to a person't life or of bodily harm, or any the rest of the provision's in place.

This, of course, all comes down to the situation and, in some cases, that does come down to a 'he said she said'. If a situation is not fairly evident, such as an intrusion into someone's home resulting in the intruder being shot, the mitigating factors can become multiplied & complex, save for one.

If the permit holder can convince the police, judge or jury that they felt their life was threatened they are off the hook. If the person who gets shot is a black American, it is much more likely the shooter will convince the above mentioned that their life was indeed threatened. That is the reality of how our judicial system has been proven to operate when it comes to race.

The event I described above involving myself enters a different realm. I'm white & the permit holder was white. I was a new resident & their family were lifetime resident's, and likely a generation or two beyond that. In this case, all it took for the real criminal here to say was, 'I felt my life was threatened'. That is what happened, it was a complete and utter fabrication with no basis in reality or facts, and was all the cops needed to not investigate any further.

So, no charges were brought against the person who committed, at the very least, 2 crimes stated in the gun laws at the time. At the very very least, the permit should have been suspended or revoked, and I know that the cops knew this too.

#14 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-08-06 04:25 PM | Reply

Was there video of the Zimmerman murder? Nope. So the cops didn't arrest him based on what he said happened. No asking why he got out of his car with a gun (bad decision). Being a judges son had nothing to do with this. Uh huh.

#15 | Posted by bored at 2018-08-06 05:08 PM | Reply

That's what they want. The folks backing these laws are just itchin' to kill someone and SYG helps make that possible.

#3 | Posted by TFDNihilist

You are funny, no, stoopid.

#16 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-08-06 05:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I would bet nine times out of 10, in the black vs white thing, it's probably a robbery by the black person robbing or assaulting the white guy.

#10 | Posted by boaz

That's because you're a bigot.

#17 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-08-06 05:41 PM | Reply

17

what if he lowered the number? say.....to 6 times out of 10.

is he still a bigot?

#18 | Posted by eberly at 2018-08-06 05:47 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

And I'm not saying she didnt have a right to defend herself.
#2 | POSTED BY BOAZ

No, you literally just said that in #1. Now you are trying to cover up for it. Pathetic. You'd sound smarter if you said a lot less.

#19 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-08-07 01:11 AM | Reply

From The Article:
"In the 2012 shooting death of Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Florida, George Zimmerman was acquitted after invoking the stand your ground defense."
CNN is wrong here. Zimmerman never invoked the stand your ground defense. Wonder why they're misreporting a narrative?
George Zimmerman Waives Right To 'Stand Your Ground' Hearing

#20 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-08-07 11:13 AM | Reply

Let these hillbillies shoot each other all they want.

MAGA

#21 | Posted by getoffmedz at 2018-08-07 11:34 AM | Reply

The stats tell a racist story.
"when both the shooter and victim are white, 11% of these cases are ruled justifiable. When both parties are black, the rate is 8%. However, when the shooter is white and the victim is black, the rate of justifiable homicide is 34%. But when the shooter is black and the victim is white, that rate is only 3%. "

#8 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2018-08-06 03:05 PM | FLAG:

That doesn't mean SYG and the application of it is racist. This article is an op ed without a root cause analysis and leaves out external factors like the War on Drugs.

#22 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-08-07 12:29 PM | Reply

"leaves out external factors like the War on Drugs."

What do you want them to do, adjust the odds because of the racist War on Drugs to demonstrate if SYG if any more or less racist than the racist War on Drugs?

#23 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-08-07 12:41 PM | Reply

That doesn't mean SYG and the application of it is racist. This article is an op ed without a root cause analysis and leaves out external factors like the War on Drugs.

#22 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

The only factor that changed was SYG. It's the only common factor that is different between the states in terms of the numbers.

And the article is CITING a study that covers the root cause analysis and accounts for external factors.

#24 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-08-07 01:42 PM | Reply

Tell us Sitz

How does the war on drugs affect SYG stats.

Are you going to pretend that drug abuse is more prevalent among blacks? Any competent medical professional can tell you that whites have higher rates of drug abuse.

www.huffingtonpost.com

#25 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-08-07 01:53 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

How does the war on drugs affect SYG stats.

#25 | POSTED BY HATTER5183 AT 2018-08-07 01:53 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

It's not about abuse, it's about distribution. SYG doesn't apply to drug violence.

Don't lack.

If you have to be explained what "Don't lack" means, you don't know ---- about the drug game.

#26 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-08-07 03:30 PM | Reply

leaves out external factors like the War on Drugs.

#22 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG AT 2018-08-07 12:29 PM | REPLY |

SYG doesn't apply to drug violence.

#26 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG AT 2018-08-07 03:30 PM | REPLY

Once you pivot more than once you are just spinning

#27 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-08-07 03:32 PM | Reply

#27 | POSTED BY HATTER5183 AT 2018-08-07 03:32 PM | FLAG:

---- me I'm going to have to use crayons to explain this.

#28 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-08-07 03:45 PM | Reply

And the article is CITING a study that covers the root cause analysis and accounts for external factors.

#24 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT AT 2018-08-07 01:42 PM | FLAG:

He cited a study that didn't do any statistical work, which in turn cited other studies that explicitly say in them they can't test their own hypothesis.

#29 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-08-07 03:46 PM | Reply

Sooooooooooooooo were you BSing when you said the problem was it didn't factor in drugs or were you BSing when you said drug violence was irrelevant 2 posts later?

#30 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-08-07 05:24 PM | Reply

#22 | Posted by sitzkrieg, #17 | Posted by SpeakSoftly- Is it bigotry to point out the actual numbers reported by the FBI in their crime statistics report that black criminals victimize white individuals about 20 times more often than vice versa?

#31 | Posted by docnjo at 2018-08-08 08:46 AM | Reply

"Nationwide, states with stand your ground witnessed a 53% average increase in the justifiable homicide rate after passage of the law."

Apparently there are a lot of people that need killing and a lot of people willing to do it.

MAGA!

Make America like the Wild West again!

#32 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-08-08 10:11 AM | Reply

#32 | Posted by donnerboy, Bad analogy, the homicide rate in the "wild" west, even in hard core mining towns or "lawless" cow towns like Dodge City or Wichita was less than a third of what it is now. The fact is Wyatt Earp had killed exactly one individual before he arrived in Tombstone Arizona, and that was ruled accidental but it did get him fired from the Dodge City Police Department. The individual he shot was a fellow police man and a close friend. The Earp brothers and Doc Holiday were enforcing a gun ban when they encountered five men on the street outside the OK corral, three died. Two of his brothers were wounded. He was arrested for murder because of that incident, but was exonerated at trial. With a population of more than 10,000 Tombstone averaged less than one murder a year. Even during the gang wars during prohibition, the homicide rate is a fraction of what it is today in Chicago.

#33 | Posted by docnjo at 2018-08-08 10:56 AM | Reply

SYG, just like the War on Drugs thirty years ago, is designed to justify killing black people while not affecting white people too much. If you doubt it, just look at how it is applied and enforced.

#34 | Posted by moder8 at 2018-08-08 11:08 AM | Reply

#22 | Posted by sitzkrieg, #17 | Posted by SpeakSoftly- Is it bigotry to point out the actual numbers reported by the FBI in their crime statistics report that black criminals victimize white individuals about 20 times more often than vice versa?

#31 | POSTED BY DOCNJO AT 2018-08-08 08:46 AM | REPLY |

The problem is that the actual numbers reported by the FBI in their crime statistics DO NOT report that black criminals victimize white individuals about 20 times more often than vice versa.

#35 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-08-08 11:39 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

EVERY black man and most white men understand the law is consistently applied unequally between races, EXCEPT BOAZ. The OJ case just reinforced the reality that money is always the most important consideration in a for profit system.

#36 | Posted by bayviking at 2018-08-08 01:01 PM | Reply

And the article is CITING a study that covers the root cause analysis and accounts for external factors.
#24 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT AT 2018-08-07 01:42 PM | FLAG:
He cited a study that didn't do any statistical work, which in turn cited other studies that explicitly say in them they can't test their own hypothesis.

#29 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

Jesus, read what you are talking about. The link doesn't go to the article and study. It links to a short OVERVIEW of the article and study. The overview has a link to the actual article and study on the first page: (www.sciencedirect.com).

So...would you care to try again?

#37 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-08-08 01:13 PM | Reply

#35 | Posted by hatter5183 CITATION!

#38 | Posted by docnjo at 2018-08-08 07:15 PM | Reply

"black criminals victimize white individuals about 20 times more often than vice versa?"

There's a lot more blacks than whites in America.

So when a criminal, black or white, randomly chooses a victim, most of the time it will be white.

Not that it's random, but hopefully you can understand the way different population sizes largely explain both your vice and your versa.

#39 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-08-08 07:21 PM | Reply

#39 | Posted by snoofy "There's a lot more blacks than whites in America", Nope, the black population is about 13% of America, and continues to fall due to the successful efforts of Margarete Sanger. 2). Makes sense, but crime for profit is only about a third of violent crime. About a half of the remainder is personal. Murder or assault committed within the home or 3) the final category is predatory, think rape. Average black woman is about 6 times more likely to be raped than a white woman. It would take a seriously sophisticated conspiracy to get as many black men into prison as possible, but I doubt that. I've dealt with the government for decades, they ain't that slick. Truth is the vast majority of black men in prison deserve to be there. I know all the snowflakes will scream raciest, but I invite all you virtue signaling phonies to invite and sponsor a parolee and invite him into your home. GO ahead and put some skin into tha game.

#40 | Posted by docnjo at 2018-08-08 07:39 PM | Reply

"There's a lot more blacks than whites in America"

Oh dear. I screwed that one up.

If that were the case, you'd see far more white on black crime than the opposite.

But of course the opposite is the case, which explains why we see far more black on white crime.

#41 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-08-08 07:42 PM | Reply

"I've dealt with the government for decades, they ain't that slick."

Like you could tell.

They're so slick you don't even realize Voter ID requirements disproportionately affect blacks.

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-08-08 07:45 PM | Reply

If that were the case, you'd see far more white on black crime than the opposite.
But of course the opposite is the case, which explains why we see far more black on white crime.

#41 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2018-08-08 07:42 PM | REPLY

You see very little white on black crime OR black on white crime.

bottom line we do not have any statistics on crime. We have statistics on ARRESTS AND CONVICTIONS. Those are different things.

In addition there are no legitimate statistics anywhere that show a 20:1 ratio you claim

#43 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-08-09 11:36 AM | Reply

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