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Thursday, June 14, 2018

NK released a video of the awkward exchange between Trump and a NK General. Cue WhataboutObama in 3.2.1...

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Days without being a national embarrassment: 0

#1 | Posted by 726 at 2018-06-14 11:06 AM | Reply

"When he approaches a uniformed general, the president initially holds out his hand for a handshake. The general responds by giving the president a salute -- and the president, in turn salutes back."
Clearly grounds for immediate impeachment.

#2 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-06-14 11:21 AM | Reply

My father who was a 30 year Navy officer criticized President Carter and most other presidents for now knowing the correct protocol when being saluted by military personnel. Presidents should not salute back, they aren't military personnel.

#3 | Posted by danni at 2018-06-14 11:24 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1


twitter.com


VoteVets
‏Verified account @votevets

"It is wholly inappropriate for the commander in chief of our armed forces to salute the military of our adversary... We must talk with them, for the sake of avoiding a disastrous war. But they have not earned the salute of a president." - @PaulDEaton52


PaulDEaton52 is Army Maj. Gen. (Ret.) Paul Eaton

#4 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-06-14 12:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"My father who was a 30 year Navy officer criticized President Carter and most other presidents for now knowing the correct protocol when being saluted by military personnel. Presidents should not salute back, they aren't military personnel."
#3 | POSTED BY DANNI

AIUI there is no requirement for the civilian commander in chief to return a salute, but there's no rule against it either.

www.jacksonville.com

So, [Reagan] said to the Commandant, ‘Look, I know all the rules about saluting in civilian clothes and all, but if I am the Commander in Chief, there ought to be a regulation that would permit me to return a salute.' And [the Commandant] said, ‘I think if you did, no one would say anything.'
"So, if you see me on television and I'm saluting, you know that I've got authority for it now - and I do it happily."
So returning salutes by the president is a modern-day courtesy and not a requirement.

.

#5 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-06-14 12:48 PM | Reply | Funny: 1


More of the anecdote:
www.presidency.ucsb.edu

...I can't resist telling you a little story that I've just told the marine guard at the Embassy. The story has to do with saluting. I was a second lieutenant of horse cavalry back in the World War II days. As I told the admiral, I wound up flying a desk for the Army Air Force. And so, I know all the rules about not saluting in civilian clothes and so forth, and when you should or shouldn't. But then when I got this job- [laughter] -- and I would be approaching Air Force One or Marine One and those marines would come to a salute and I -- knowing that I am in civilian clothes -- I would nod and say hello and think they could drop their hand, and they wouldn't. They just stood there. So, one night over at the Commandant's quarters, Marine Commandant's quarters in Washington, and I was getting a couple of highballs, and I didn't -- [laughter] -- know what to do with them. So, I said to the Commandant -- I said, "Look, I know all the rules about saluting in civilian clothes and all, but if I am the Commander in Chief, there ought to be a regulation that would permit me to return a salute." And I heard some words of wisdom. He said, "I think if you did, no one would say anything." [Laughter]

So, if you see me on television and I'm saluting, you know that I've got authority for it now -- [laughter] -- and I do it happily. But you know there are some people here I can't salute, of course, because they're civilians. But seeing them does bring to mind all the sacrifices that your families make. So, whether your families are here or back home, the next time you see them or write a letter, you tell them for me their President thanks them -- and so does all America. [Applause] It seems to me, we have one more round of applause still to go. The talks that we've concluded could never have been had it not been for the generosity of the people of Iceland. [Applause]


Was fmr Pres Reagan talking about saluting an adversary?

#6 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-06-14 01:17 PM | Reply

"Was fmr Pres Reagan talking about saluting an adversary?"

No, but at worst this looks like Trump is treating a foreign general as a subordinate.

#7 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-06-14 01:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1


@#7

For me, the "at worst" aspect is the President of the United States saluting a general in the military of an adversary.

If only the President were merely saluting a subordinate, I would not view it as badly.

Additionally, given the sequence of events, I also wonder if the North Koreans staged the salute for their own PR purposes, and Pres Trump blindly went along with their set-up. {shrug}

#8 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-06-14 01:59 PM | Reply

"{shrug}"

This is exactly how I feel about it, and probably most people do. We all know Trump's a joke, but people jumping on every little thing makes him look like a victim and gives him more credence and attention than he deserves. Obsessing over something like this will backfire on Trump's critics, just like obsessing over every little thing Obama did didn't help the Republicans do anything more than maintain the status quo until after he was gone.

#9 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-06-14 02:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2


@#9 ... We all know Trump's a joke, but people jumping on every little thing ...

Except with Pres Trump, "every little thing" is not usually "little."

The errors he makes are rather big and frequent. This salute is just one in a long string.

It does make him look like a victim, but a victim of himself. He makes a lot of errors, he lies a lot. A lot.

The sheer quantity should not relieve him of being called out on those errors and lies.

#10 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-06-14 02:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

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"The errors he makes are rather big and frequent."

This was not one of them. If he hadn't returned the salute as a courtesy, 95% of the people here bashing him for doing it would be saying he was deliberately trying to embarass the general and jeopardizing potential peace if he didn't.

#11 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-06-14 02:46 PM | Reply

Remember how the right-wingers reacted when Obama said "corpse-man?"

They're not reacting that way over this.

Gee, I wonder why?

#12 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-06-14 02:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"If he hadn't returned the salute as a courtesy, 95% of the people here bashing him for doing it would be saying he was deliberately trying to embarass the general and jeopardizing potential peace if he didn't."

Oh.

So you're saying, if he hadn't returned the salute, it would jeopardize the peace process.

Got it.

Hey guys, remember how the right-wingers reacted when Obama bowed to Ayatollah Khamenei, by saying if he hadn't bowed, it would threaten the delicate negotiations with Iran?

#13 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-06-14 02:56 PM | Reply

We all know Trump's a joke, but people jumping on every little thing ...

Remember "Tan Suit Gate" and the "Chewing Gum Outrage"? I do.

#14 | Posted by 726 at 2018-06-14 02:59 PM | Reply

#14, so do I. It was totally offensive for him to do that during the Bowling Green Massacre.

#15 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-06-14 03:01 PM | Reply | Funny: 1


@#13 ... 95% of the people here bashing him for doing it would be saying...

When your best response is to state what you imagine other other people will do, you have lost your position.

Nice try, though. You were doing pretty well until you gave up. :)

#16 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-06-14 03:07 PM | Reply

Oh darn. You got me there. Can't argue against made up on the spot internet rules.

*raises eyebrow*

Or can I?

#17 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-06-14 03:11 PM | Reply | Funny: 1


@#17 ...Can't argue against made up on the spot internet rules. ...

Not internet rules.

Just my opinion regarding online discussions.

Have fun.

#18 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-06-14 03:26 PM | Reply

Do any of you dumb asses even know why we salute?

The salute was created to show there was nothing in the right hand when knights met each other in the field. It has evolved into a sign of respect between officers and enlisted. They are called customs and courtesy. I saluted many officers from other militaries when they out ranked me..It's respect.

We are not at war with North Korea. South Korea and the U.N. have a truce with them. There was nothing wrong with the show of respect to Trump from the General.

Now if we declared war on NK, until a peace treaty was signed, there would be no saluting. As an example, look at the Japanese surrender aboard the ship. The emperor got honors after he left the ship...

#19 | Posted by boaz at 2018-06-14 04:28 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Do any of you dumb asses even know why we salute?"

Does any part of your fat ignorant ass know when the President shouldn't?

Sad!

#20 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-06-14 04:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

We are not at war with North Korea. South Korea and the U.N. have a truce with them. There was nothing wrong with the show of respect to Trump from the General.
Now if we declared war on NK, until a peace treaty was signed, there would be no saluting. As an example, look at the Japanese surrender aboard the ship. The emperor got honors after he left the ship...

POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2018-06-14 04:28 PM | REPLY

Hey numbnuts we are technically still at war with North Korea. Get your facts straight. Oh and I'm so thrilled that you opine this way because it shows your opinion on the POTUS changes from the letter after their name. You raised holy hell when Obama merely bowed to a leader out of respect.

#21 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-06-14 04:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

The salute was created to show there was nothing in the right hand when knights met each other in the field. It has evolved into a sign of respect between officers and enlisted. They are called customs and courtesy. I saluted many officers from other militaries when they out ranked me..It's respect.

#19 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2018-06-14 04:28 PM | FLAG:

Actually it was to raise their visors to show that they were friendlies.

#22 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-06-14 04:52 PM | Reply


@#19 ... The salute was created to show there was nothing in the right hand when knights met each other in the field. ...

Yeah. And the word "jazz" used to mean ---. So what's your point.

The North Koreans tricked our President into saluting their general for propaganda purposes.

Pres Trump, once again, was played.

Just like the Russians played him into revealing classified information during that Oval Office party Pres Trump held for the Russians.

#23 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-06-14 08:43 PM | Reply

But remember when Obama wore a TAN SUIT!?!?!?!

#24 | Posted by 726 at 2018-06-15 07:35 AM | Reply

Hey numbnuts we are technically still at war with North Korea.

When did we declare war?

#25 | Posted by boaz at 2018-06-15 07:39 AM | Reply

When did we declare war?

POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2018-06-15 07:39 AM | REPLY

The Korean War is the first UN Declared war.

#26 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-06-15 08:14 AM | Reply

"The North Koreans tricked our President into saluting their general for propaganda purposes."

Their General saluted your President first. If they want to play games like that then it's quite easy to say it backfired and they were the ones made to look foolish and subordinate to the US. Or we could just call it a petty nothingburger and move on.

"Just like the Russians played him into revealing classified information during that Oval Office party Pres Trump held for the Russians"

Did they play him or did he know exactly what he was doing? Either way, that deserves serious questioning and shouldn't be diluted with petty sniping and the noise of other non-serious events like the one above.

#27 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-06-15 09:33 AM | Reply

My father who was a 30 year Navy officer criticized President Carter and most other presidents for now knowing the correct protocol when being saluted by military personnel. Presidents should not salute back, they aren't military personnel. - #3 | Posted by Danni at 2018-06-14 11:24 AM

Hey Danni, if your dad is still around give him my respects. If he's not, then don't hold against him that he made a simple mistake:
If you need proof of Eisenhower saluting the troops after taking the Oath of Office and in civilian clothes, he did so on Nov. 10, 1954, while attending the dedication of the U.S. Marine Corps War Memorial.
Presidents have been saluting military while in civilian dress and uncovered for over 6 decades.

#28 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-06-15 12:51 PM | Reply

If you need proof of Eisenhower saluting the troops after taking the Oath of Office and in civilian clothes, he did so on Nov. 10, 1954, while attending the dedication of the U.S. Marine Corps War Memorial.
Presidents have been saluting military while in civilian dress and uncovered for over 6 decades.

#28 | POSTED BY AVIGDORE AT 2018-06-15 12:51 PM | REPLY

AMERICAN military. This douche he saluted is a member of a dictator's goon squad. Kim is not in an equal position of power to Trump and this general is not worthy of the respect of our president when his only experience is either shooting at American troops if he is old enough or shooting at his own people trying to flee if hes not

#29 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-06-15 02:13 PM | Reply

A president saluting an enemy general is a formal sign of surrender, binding in international law. North Koreans will show up at the Whitehouse and day now to ask for the keys.

....either that, or this is nothing but a mildly embarrassing breach of protocol, at worst.

#30 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-06-15 02:26 PM | Reply

AMERICAN military. This douche he saluted is a member of a dictator's goon squad. - #29 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-06-15 02:13 PM
Couldn't bring yourself to actually read the article where it discusses a 1959 video showing Eisenhower saluting Italian troops, huh? Even linked in the article.
Well thanks for proclaiming your willful ignorance for all to see.

#31 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-06-15 02:32 PM | Reply

It's ok to salute the enemy?

it's just not ok to bow.

Saluting ok.

Curtsying is ok. Bowing not ok.

Got it.

#32 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-06-15 02:58 PM | Reply

#32, nothingburger vs. nothingburger

#33 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-06-15 03:29 PM | Reply

"Couldn't bring yourself to actually read the article where it discusses a 1959 video showing Eisenhower saluting Italian troops, huh? Even linked in the article."

Italy was a democracy in 1959 and a member of NATO and Eisenhower was a former General.

#34 | Posted by danni at 2018-06-15 04:22 PM | Reply

And were those Italians that President Eisenhower saluted "AMERICAN military. - #29 | Posted by hatter5183", or is hatter5183 full of crap?

#35 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-06-15 04:59 PM | Reply

"Couldn't bring yourself to actually read the article where it discusses a 1959 video showing Eisenhower saluting Italian troops, huh? Even linked in the article."

Italy was a democracy in 1959 and a member of NATO and Eisenhower was a former General.

#34 | POSTED BY DANNI

This. Italy was an ally of the US at the time. Is NK an ally today?

Please go away until you can learn a modicum of intelligence.

#36 | Posted by tonyroma at 2018-06-15 05:30 PM | Reply

Avi only has half truths and failed attempts at having a point.

He's easily ignorable.

#37 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-06-15 05:59 PM | Reply

Is NK an ally today?
#36 | POSTED BY TONYROMA

No, but in fairness NK is an ally of trump's boss.

#38 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2018-06-15 06:40 PM | Reply

This. Italy was an ally of the US at the time. Is NK an ally today?
#36 | POSTED BY TONYROMA AT 2018-06-15 05:30 PM

I am refuting someone's point that the president salutes AMERICAN military. It's not like I quoted it several times while directly referring to it. What difference at all does it matter that Italy was an ally or not? They could be Canada and still not be AMERICAN, which is what hatter5183 said presidents salute. Your weak deflections that any country, ally or not, is the same as American is almost as foolish as you are. Once again you accuse me of not being intelligent while you are simultaneously unable to comprehend what is being discussed.

#39 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-06-15 07:14 PM | Reply

Trump Betrayed Our Military by Saluting North Korea

observer.com

#40 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-06-15 07:18 PM | Reply

Yeah, it's pretty weird to that he saluted the NK guy, especially when the general had his hand ready for a handshake.

#41 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2018-06-15 07:21 PM | Reply

Give Trump a break. Saluting dictators is reflex for him now.

#42 | Posted by bored at 2018-06-15 07:26 PM | Reply

Presidents should not salute back, they aren't military personnel.
-Danni

...proof of Eisenhower saluting the troops...
-Avigdore

You realize Eisenhower was in the military, right?

#43 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-06-15 07:26 PM | Reply

You realize he was a civillian and President during the times in question, right? He saluted a foreign military member as a civilian president 7 years after he retired from military service.

#44 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-06-15 07:58 PM | Reply

military.maryland.gov

see sec1@5e.

#45 | Posted by ichiro at 2018-06-16 03:46 AM | Reply

chap 1, sec1-5, e.

#46 | Posted by ichiro at 2018-06-16 03:47 AM | Reply

He saluted a foreign military member as a civilian president 7 years after he retired from military service.

Does one ever truly retire from the military?

#47 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-06-16 01:04 PM | Reply

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