Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, June 10, 2018

Sen. John McCain pushed back Saturday night against President Donald Trump's reversal of an agreement to sign onto a statement by the G7 countries, saying that Americans would continue to stand with its historical allies. "To our allies: bipartisan majorities of Americans remain pro-free trade, pro-globalization & supportive of alliances based on 70 years of shared values," the Arizona senator tweeted. "Americans stand with you, even if our president doesn't." Earlier in the evening, Trump tweeted that Canadian prime minster Justin Trudeau was "meek" and "mild" and that his statements were "false."

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What allies?

At this rate we'll be lucky if Ecuador sez Hi to us instead of crossing to the other side of the street when they see us coming.

Americans have got rabies... we growl at everyone now without any reason.

Sad. Very sad.

#1 | Posted by J_Tremain at 2018-06-10 04:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

He only speaks for some of the US population.

#2 | Posted by MSgt at 2018-06-10 07:50 PM | Reply

He only speaks for some of the US population.

So do you.

#3 | Posted by REDIAL at 2018-06-10 08:13 PM | Reply

sniper to mccain. Who cares?

#4 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-06-10 08:21 PM | Reply

McCain, I'm sorry to say, is a racist, bigoted, homophobic, bitter old man. I base that on numerous things he's said over the years on the floor of the Senate.

#5 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-10 08:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

McCain, I'm sorry to say, is a racist, bigoted, homophobic, bitter old man. I base that on numerous things he's said over the years on the floor of the Senate.

#5 | POSTED BY 9MMHEATER AT 2018-06-10 08:23 PM | REPLY

Such as?

#6 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-06-10 08:29 PM | Reply

I like how they're letting the new guy operate the deflector shields.

#7 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-06-10 08:39 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

The electorate disagrees with Mccain, that is why he was elected. Mccain is a war hero but also a bitter man because he lost the presidency. Sad way to go out.

#8 | Posted by fishpaw at 2018-06-10 08:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#6

With respect. I no longer post links for numerous reasons. A few of the main reasons are as follows.

After several years spent on political blogs, it became apparent to me that links do not matter to those who ask for or demand them, and usually result in a 'credible information' argument when they are posted.

The user-unfriendly internet of today has greatly increased the amount of time for a person to reach their destination, regardless if they are looking for information or using a 'simple' app such as iTunes.

Most importantly, and related to my 1st reason, is that I've also come to understand that there is nothing you can express about yourself, that those with their preconceived notions of your 'political ideologies', will believe or even give a benefit of doubt to. So, I post my views, opinions, facts or truth fully understanding these realities.

#9 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-10 10:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

The electorate disagrees with Mccain, that is why he was elected. Mccain is a war hero but also a bitter man because he lost the presidency. Sad way to go out.

#8 | POSTED BY FISHPAW

You really are an idiot.

#10 | Posted by jpw at 2018-06-10 10:42 PM | Reply

#9 | POSTED BY 9MMHEATER

Nice cop out.

What was being asked for isn't subjective, hence why a link supporting you assertion is warranted.

#11 | Posted by jpw at 2018-06-10 10:42 PM | Reply

#11

I agree, but it doesn't change what I said.

Let's be honest here. If links are required for subjective comments made here, can you just imagine it? Heck, I'm willing to start linking again as long as I can request them for subjective comments. But, with the caveat that my requests are answered in kind.

#12 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-10 10:57 PM | Reply

To be clear, I would agree with your 2nd sentence.

It was no cop out. It was as I said, based on his own words I heard with my own ears throughout his years in the Senate. So, take it as you choose to because, as I explained above, it just does not matter.

#13 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-10 11:04 PM | Reply

"With respect. I no longer post links for numerous reasons. A few of the main reasons are as follows."

Go blow it out your ass.

If you're going to call a war hero with an african american adopted child a racist, a link is kinda standard.

Maybe mccain IS racist, i don't know, but i didn't make the assertion.

#14 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-06-10 11:06 PM | Reply

#14

In that case, I'd appreciate links for every single assertion that Trump is racist.

#15 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-10 11:22 PM | Reply

www.nbcnews.com

Your turn.

#16 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-06-10 11:32 PM | Reply

www.google.com

Here's another one.

#17 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-06-10 11:33 PM | Reply

www.nytimes.com

Now you don't ever have to ask for a link again. Trump is a racist puke.

#18 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-06-10 11:35 PM | Reply

It was no cop out. It was as I said, based on his own words I heard with my own ears throughout his years in the Senate. So, take it as you choose to because, as I explained above, it just does not matter.

#13 | POSTED BY 9MMHEATER AT 2018-06-10 11:04 PM | FLAG:

That which can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

#19 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-06-10 11:36 PM | Reply

#16

Seriously?

You don't have to believe what I said about links and how they, most often, lead to a credibility argument. I do though, and this is just another example.

Call it a cop out, say I'm scared to debate or argue a point, or even that I'm tucking my tail or burying my head. But, if you expect me to take any 'news' source as credible, or to report things in proper context, especially about a republican president, and especially regarding Trump; well, it ain't gonna happen.

I think I'm a fair person, and I can understand your passion on this, but I simply will not be linking, much less begin a possible 3 hour search on this, or on anything I say in the future. If it's perfectly acceptable for others to throw out slanderous or insulting comments on a daily basis, and not provide anything to back those comments, I'd be a doormat to allow a different set of 'rules' to be applied to me.

#20 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-10 11:58 PM | Reply

#19

Agreed.

#21 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-10 11:59 PM | Reply

Y'all are something else. NBC, Google, NYTimes....some things never change.

#22 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 12:01 AM | Reply

"Call it a cop out"

Okay.

It's a cop out.

#23 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-06-11 12:04 AM | Reply

9mm- youre a whack job.

theres VIDEO of him saying racist things, but you won't accept it hecause "google"

You just did exactly what you accused others of doing: poo pooing the source that is factual reality.

#24 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-06-11 12:17 AM | Reply

the "google" link you didn't look at was usatoday. I figured even you could read that.

#25 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-06-11 12:21 AM | Reply

-factual reality.

Hold on, now. Let's not assume there is such thing! - 1sillymm

#26 | Posted by Corky at 2018-06-11 12:40 AM | Reply

Son Of A !!!

I just typed a response to the links, as detailed in explanation as I could. Hit submit & apparently was over the 4000 word limit & was instructed to back up and adjust it. I did so and it's all gone.

Quite certain that will not be believed either, but it is the truth & I'm sorry but I just ain't typing it again, even if I could recall the different reasoning used to show how and why the information given in the links do not prove racism. I also gave alternative possibilities and examples to comments, viewed by some as racist, to show how they do not prove racism.

Unreal. Well....that's a crap way to spend over an hour.

Nite.

#27 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 02:29 AM | Reply

Y'all are something else. NBC, Google, NYTimes....some things never change.

#22 | POSTED BY Comrade 9MMHEATER AT 2018-06-11 12:01

Hypocrite much? You won't post links because you sources are Fox News, InfoWars, Brietbart and other alt-right propaganda sources.

#28 | Posted by aborted_monson at 2018-06-11 02:29 AM | Reply

I even worked a link in myself for no reason other than out of respect. F it

#29 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 02:32 AM | Reply

The guy called a venezuelan woman "miss housekeeping"

How the ---- is he not a bigot?

#30 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-06-11 02:36 AM | Reply

#28

Good, god! I can understand why you might use those names as sources I might use, simply because you think you know my political ideology, as complex as they actually are. But, not only are you entirely wrong on all counts, your audacity to assume as much is absolutely stunning.

#31 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 02:39 AM | Reply

#30

Glad you said that Alexendrite because it was one of my points. Racism & bigotry are not the same things. I even said he was bigoted in the, however many, typed words I just lost.

I read nothing in any information provided thru the leaks that would be proof of racism to me, or a court of law, IMO.

#32 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 02:42 AM | Reply

I even typed 'Miss Housekeeping' as you did, in quotes.

#33 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 02:44 AM | Reply

Sorry, leaks is links. I really am done for the nite. I've just noticed 2 mistakes in basic grammar I made in 2 short posts.

Nite for real.

#34 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 02:49 AM | Reply

The guy called a venezuelan woman "miss housekeeping"
How the ---- is he not a bigot?

#30 | POSTED BY ALEXANDRITE

Or nazis "good people".

#35 | Posted by jpw at 2018-06-11 08:50 AM | Reply

Quaint. But you are not POTUS.

#36 | Posted by fresno500 at 2018-06-11 11:00 AM | Reply

So far I've seen McCain, Susan Collins, and Jeff Flake make similar tweets.

Will they do anything besides tweets and prayers?

#37 | Posted by schifferbrains at 2018-06-11 11:03 AM | Reply

Your turn. - #16 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-06-10 11:32 PM
Equating Warren to Pocahontas, one of the few women so endeared by our country to be immortalized on our money, is in no way racist against Amerindians.

Here's another one. - #17 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-06-10 11:33 PM
What race do you think Trump was feeling prejudiced against when he called that Caucasian Ms. Housekeeping?

Now you don't ever have to ask for a link again. Trump is a racist puke. - #18 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-06-10 11:35 PM
I can't get past the paywall on that one, but it is an opinion piece. Could you elaborate on it or find a non-paywall version?

#38 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-06-11 11:22 AM | Reply

The guy called a venezuelan woman "miss housekeeping"
How the ---- is he not a bigot? - #30 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-06-11 02:36 AM

Ah, there we go. Bigot? Yes. Racist? Probably, but not in the links you provided.

#39 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-06-11 11:25 AM | Reply

avigdore-

---- you

#40 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-06-11 11:25 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Seriously, you're going to defend trump by semantically arguing bigotry vs racism?

Your parents must be proud. Evil came along and avigdore wasted his time being a contrarian on a blog with 20 members. Good for you.

#41 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-06-11 11:32 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I didn't and do not defend him. I'm explaining that you were mistaking bigotry for racism.
And that your definition for racism in the first citation is flawed.
The term Racist has been thrown around so much that it has lost all meaning. It's getting up there with fascist and Nazi.
Using the word that meets how he's behaved is the way to have a reasonable discussion.
Throwing out racist when he isn't being racist is the way to give ammunition to people who want to show how Trump is being maligned.
I'm sorry that you are getting wound up by this. I know it's hard to be corrected sometimes. I mean it only in the most respectful way.
Just like it is wrong to lie about Trump (who himself is a renowned liar), it is also not a good choice to call him a racist and cite non-racist activity as your basis.

#42 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-06-11 11:38 AM | Reply

" I'm explaining that you were mistaking bigotry for racism."

How do you live with yourself?

#43 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-06-11 11:41 AM | Reply

I love how donald trump calling black people lazy suddenly isn't racist.

You trump enablers sicken me.

#44 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-06-11 11:43 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Trump treated black employees at his casinos differently from whites, according to multiple sources. A former hotel executive said Trump criticized a black accountant: "Black guys counting my money! I hate it. ... I think that the guy is lazy. And it's probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks.""

www.nytimes.com

#45 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-06-11 11:49 AM | Reply

#44 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-06-11 11:43 AM
Is that the 3rd citation? I mentioned in #38 that I couldn't access it behind the paywall and asked for another link or some reference so I could google it myself.
Trump calling black folks lazy is absolutely a sign of racism and bigotry.
I can only assume that you're talking about this:
www.slate.com
Which if true, would be very definitive of Trump being racist against black people. Unfortunately, it's ...how does Slate put it...'this is O'Donnell's recollection of what Trump said, not a direct quote in a news report or a transcript of a recording'
You 'know' and I believe that Trump is racist. The pudding is in the proof.
If the NYTimes article was something else, I'd be happy to look for another non-paywall cite for that with a bit more information from you on what was.

#46 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-06-11 11:52 AM | Reply

First you accuse me of not linking to proof.
Then its "oh i can't see your proof"
now that i copy pasted it, you attack the source.

You're a waste of time.

#47 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-06-11 11:55 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Evil came along and avigdore wasted his time being a contrarian on a blog with 20 members. Good for you. - #41 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-06-11 11:32 AM
I can't sway 'evil'. I can help people move from rage to reasonableness, from ignorance to educated, and from myopic to observant.
(Not that I consider you ignorant or myopic, but I think you may be letting rage overtake sensibility some here).

#48 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-06-11 11:56 AM | Reply

I can help people move from rage to reasonableness, from ignorance to educated, and from myopic to observant.

#48 | Posted by Avigdore

Funny, that's why I come here too.

#49 | Posted by Zed at 2018-06-11 12:01 PM | Reply

I didn't accuse you of not linking to proof. And I didn't attack the source. You've twice linked to the NYTimes, which I explained that I am unable to access because it is behind a paywall. I'm sure that the NYTimes has an excellent article on it that I could see if I were at my home computer, but I don't have the same accesses from the government's computers. I offered to search myself for what you were talking about if you gave me more info.

While I was trying to learn what the thing was that you linked in #18, I searched on my own and came up with the Slate article. Slate, is a left-leaning site, but doesn't have a paywall. It also actually shows an image from the book in question, and explains, as I quoted above, that it's a 3rd party recollection of events, not a quote or transcript. As such, it makes for weak proof with which to call someone a racist.

#50 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-06-11 12:02 PM | Reply

Im tired of the goatman trick of "i demand proof, i can't see your proof"

Youre not an honest person.

#51 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-06-11 12:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Donald Trump is a sociopath. If he needs to be racist he'll do that, and has. Cut the man open and find thousands of squiggly worms with no character, just needs.

#52 | Posted by Zed at 2018-06-11 12:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Im tired of the goatman trick of "i demand proof, i can't see your proof"
Youre not an honest person. - #51 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-06-11 12:05 PM

I didn't demand anything. I'm sorry that you feel that this is demanding:
"I can't get past the paywall on that one, but it is an opinion piece. Could you elaborate on it or find a non-paywall version? - #38 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-06-11 11:22 AM"
Heck, I wanted to know the actual information that I couldn't see on the Times. I asked if you could provide another link or just some actual words so that I could perform a decent google search. I was searching on my own as well, as evidenced by my posting my #46 3 minutes after your #45.

#53 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-06-11 12:17 PM | Reply

Well, it's nice to see that someone understands where I've been trying to come from, Avidgore. Don't worry, I'm not making any other equations to us other than you explained what I, foolishly, lost after an hour or so of doing my best to explain, in detail, where I'm coming from. Obviously, if I went over 4,000 words, I used a bit too much detail. BTW, not that anyone gives a caca, but I realized last nite I lost all I had typed because I was very mentally tired and hit the 'back' button instead of the little blue 'try again' button. So, full disclosure, it was my fault that I lost, what had to be over 4,000 words due to the limit and thus my backing up to adjust it.

Avidgore made a point that gets close to the heart of the matter for me, here today. Words like Nazi & racist are thrown around far too often. Republican presidents since, at least Bush I, have been called Nazi's on left-leaning blogs. I know because I was a regular poster on a blog at Slate.com for some years, as well as one or two other blogs no longer around. I think what bothers me about the use of the word is the misuse of it. Those who use Nazi to insult the right know very well there simply is no comparison to be, legitimately, made between the two. Not one that would add up to the word being a fair description, certainly.

It's intellectual-dishonesty and, worse, reckless to throw words like Nazi and Racist around, consistently, & with no basis in fact attached to the words when used. It is also quite hypocritical when you consider the left are the original founders of politically correct speech. I'll need to double check, but I believe it was actually a small group of extreme left folks, shouting loudly enough that got the PC ball rolling a few decades ago. Extreme left being opposite & equal to the extreme right.

#54 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 01:59 PM | Reply

How does one poster combine such pomposity, dullness and plain wrongness as 9mmhooter?

#55 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-06-11 02:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Avignore is Goatman.

#56 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2018-06-11 02:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

I'd also like to support, Avidgore's comment on the NYTimes link being an opinion piece. What struck me was the title of the article. Going off recall, so if not exact it is close enough I'm certain. The title read, to this effect, 'Trump a Racist? The Definitive List'. I found the use of the word Definitive, shall we say, out of place in an opinion piece.

I read thru the entire thing and noticed what was alluded to as well. That I saw nothing that pointed to proof of racism, tho plenty that would indicate bigotry. And, the distinction between racist and bigot is an important one.

My mom is 71, and I recently told her that neither she or some of her friends are racist, but do have remnants of bigotry, still present in them. I see this as a byproduct from the time in which they grew up, and my guess is many of that generation don't even realize this. I damn sure know she didn't when I explained this to her. Maybe, when we get into stuff like this we need to try and remember how that generation came up, where any one person grew up (environment), etc. when applying labels to them, I feel anyway. Or, maybe try to apply more understanding of where they came from and grew out of.

In no way is this to excuse bigotry. I've been saying for some years now that, racism & bigotry will end in this country at some point, but it will be, essentially, bred out, for lack of better term. And, a big chunk will die out the sooner these old, crusty, and established bastard's in our government finally die. Contrary to some beliefs, this includes people of both parties. Harsh but true in my view.

Since the 60's, each generation has gone thru, however small for some, a type of awakening to truth & justice, and I believe this is exponential in growth and can only continue that way.

#57 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 02:43 PM | Reply

"I think what bothers me about the use of the word is the misuse of it." - #54 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 01:59 PM

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

#58 | Posted by Hans at 2018-06-11 02:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#55

No answer on that for ya, but I've often wondered how some seem to think insults discredit others? They don't advance constructive discourse at all, either.

#59 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 02:53 PM | Reply

He only speaks for some of the US population.

#2 | Posted by MSgt

Yeah the part that deserves consideration. Trump's minority of uniformed idiots deserve to be ignored. There's a reason they've been ignored for years before trump: You don't let the dumb guys fly the plane.

#60 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-06-11 02:54 PM | Reply

Avignore is Goatman.

#56 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour

Changing user names is the most pathetic way to dodge your record of losing debates and stupid statements.

People around here would rather pretend they're a different person than admit they were wrong.

#61 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-06-11 02:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#58

And sometimes it isn't. This would be one of those times.

Come on now, Hans, calling a white person a Nazi is as close as it gets to calling a black person.....

#62 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 02:56 PM | Reply

Come on now, Hans, calling a white person a Nazi is as close as it gets to calling a black person.....

#62 | POSTED BY 9MMHEATER AT 2018-06-11 02:56 PM | FLAG:

So untrue it is actually laughable.

#63 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-06-11 03:01 PM | Reply

Come on now, Hans, calling a white person a Nazi is as close as it gets to calling a black person.....

#62 | Posted by 9mmHeater

Perfect example of the type of false equivalencies repubs desperately cling to so they dont have to deal with their party's moral corruption.

You CHOOSE to be a nazi. Black people didn't CHOOSE to be black or enslaved.

#64 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-06-11 03:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#63

Oh really? Will you help me understand by explaining how it is laughable?

A friend and I were hanging out at my place, enjoying the Herb, & chillin & chattin, pulling up crazy stuff on Youtube, about 6 months ago. I don't recall anything but the discourse of the video as I was mostly just listening. At one point he stopped the vid, and to this effect said, 'ok, now I want to say something here about dude in this video, but just in case I want to apologize before using a word I'm going to say'.

I replied to this effect, 'man, you know you can always speak your mind with me. What's up?'

To which he laughed as he said, 'I know that but I ain't said this one before.' Followed by, 'That Cracker!......" Whatever followed is irrelevant because we were laughing so hard. Known him 5 years now, and I appreciated the fact he took time out like he did, but assured him cracker, ------, etc. will never bother me, as the tear inducing laughter went on.

Point is, someone calls me a Nazi or white supremacist, or lumps me in with that crowd it takes it to another level. He, of course, was doing neither of those things, he'd just never used the word Cracker around me. True story, funny for me, and hopefully makes some sense of the point I tried to make.

#65 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 03:29 PM | Reply

"NYTimes, which I explained that I am unable to access because it is behind a paywall."

Turn on private browsing.

#66 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-06-11 03:30 PM | Reply

"Will you help me understand"

Impossible, because you have no desire to understand.

Thanks for reading and understanding.

#67 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-06-11 03:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Point is, someone calls me a Nazi or white supremacist, or lumps me in with that crowd it takes it to another level. He, of course, was doing neither of those things, he'd just never used the word Cracker around me. True story, funny for me, and hopefully makes some sense of the point I tried to make.

#65 | Posted by 9mmHeater

Cracker isn't insulting because it has no historical significance.

If someone calls you a nazi or white supremacist, it's probably because you're being a racist.=
You don't get called that for just being white.

Black people get called N******* just for being black.

MODERN REPUBLICANISM - HAPPILY BROUGHT TO YOU BY PATHETIC FALSE EQUIVALENCIES.

#68 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-06-11 03:34 PM | Reply

Trump is a complete and utter disgrace. And his supporters are pieces of ----. But we all already know that. It is time for this ---- to be removed from office.

#69 | Posted by moder8 at 2018-06-11 03:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#64

If you believe that every soldier, scientist, and German in WW II CHOSE to be a Nazi you are, once again, so incredibly wrong. And your line of thought & lack of logic or deductive reasoning almost hurts to imagine what it must be like to have such a narrow view of things.

More to the point, neither you or I knows what feelings arise, or how intense the anger may be, in any black American upon having that slur aimed at them. Just as you have no idea of the anger and desire to lash out & attack is for me when I've been called a Nazi. I would never try to equate any struggle I've had to what black Americans have suffered thru in this country. I'm trying to explain just how incredibly insulting it is to be labeled a Nazi, by anyone for any reason, at any time.

BTW, did I choose to be white?

#70 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 03:45 PM | Reply

9mm, you may not think of yourself as a Nazi, but it is people exactly like you that allow Nazis to gain power.

#71 | Posted by moder8 at 2018-06-11 03:46 PM | Reply

If you believe that every soldier, scientist, and German in WW II CHOSE to be a Nazi you are, once again, so incredibly wrong. And your line of thought & lack of logic or deductive reasoning almost hurts to imagine what it must be like to have such a narrow view of things.

More to the point, neither you or I knows what feelings arise, or how intense the anger may be, in any black American upon having that slur aimed at them. Just as you have no idea of the anger and desire to lash out & attack is for me when I've been called a Nazi. I would never try to equate any struggle I've had to what black Americans have suffered thru in this country. I'm trying to explain just how incredibly insulting it is to be labeled a Nazi, by anyone for any reason, at any time.

BTW, did I choose to be white?

#70 | Posted by 9mmHeater

Yes, in an effort to make nazis seem like victims, let's go 80 years back to when there were some "innocent" nazis. Pathetic.

Everybody who's a nazi TODAY, CHOOSES to be a nazi.

If you hate being called a nazi so much, you should ask yourself why you're being called a nazi all the time. People who don't promote white supremacist ideologies rarely have to deal with being called nazis.

#72 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-06-11 03:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

BTW, did I choose to be white?

#70 | Posted by 9mmHeater

Are you being attacked for being white?

No.

You're being attacked for spreading white supremacist ideologies, which is a choice, not an inherent condition of your whiteness.

#73 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-06-11 03:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

People who don't promote white supremacist ideologies rarely have to deal with being called nazis.
#72 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY FLAG: Hasn't been paying attention to the Retort

#74 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-06-11 03:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#68

Oh how wrong you are and don't have a clue about it.

I'd love to tell you of a real event, which took place in Ireland of all places, and in January 2017 right after the election, that entirely smashes your statement. Just know it happened and I reacted verbally & instantly. Based on what I've said and what has been said back to me on this thread, it would be a total waste of my time to type out, but even worse, as true as it is I know it would be met with the same crapola that's been said here.

#75 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 03:55 PM | Reply

#72 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY FLAG: Hasn't been paying attention to the Retort

#74 | Posted by JeffJ

Yeah there are a lot of real victims on the retort who get called nazis when all they're doing is supporting white supremacist politicians and making excuses for nazis. It's so unfair for them.

#76 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-06-11 03:56 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#73

One example of where I've promoted a single of that type of ideology. You make a comment like that you better back it up.

#77 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 03:57 PM | Reply

I'd love to tell you of a real event, which took place in Ireland of all places, and in January 2017 right after the election, that entirely smashes your statement. Just know it happened and I reacted verbally & instantly. Based on what I've said and what has been said back to me on this thread, it would be a total waste of my time to type out, but even worse, as true as it is I know it would be met with the same crapola that's been said here.

#75 | Posted by 9mmHeater

Maybe you should whine about it to on an irish retort site then.

In america, if you're regularly getting called a nazi, you're probably doing something supportive of white supremacy.

I'm white and I've never once been called a nazi.

Simply put - it's YOU dude.

#78 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-06-11 03:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

One example of where I've promoted a single of that type of ideology. You make a comment like that you better back it up.

#77 | Posted by 9mmHeater

Show me an example of when you've been called a nazi and it's probably preceded by you promoting/excusing white supremacy.

#79 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-06-11 03:59 PM | Reply

Calling someone a Nazi coddler isn't the same as calling someone a Nazi.

#80 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-06-11 04:00 PM | Reply

Yeah there are a lot of real victims on the retort who get called nazis when all they're doing is supporting white supremacist politicians and making excuses for nazis. It's so unfair for them.

#76 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Simply espousing things like: federalism, Constitutionally-limited federal government, support for the 1st Amendment, support for the 2nd Amendment, checks and balances, etc. gets you labeled as a Nazi by some on this site.

If you haven't seen it you are willfully blind to it.

#81 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-06-11 04:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Calling someone a Nazi coddler isn't the same as calling someone a Nazi.

#80 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

A distinction without a difference.

#82 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-06-11 04:01 PM | Reply

"In america, if you're regularly getting called a nazi, you're probably doing something supportive of white supremacy."

Plenty on the right call people Nazis too.

Feminazi, for example.

#83 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-06-11 04:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"A distinction without a difference."

I disagree.

Coddlers are "useful idiots."

They support the Nazi right to march, as though that right is somehow under threat, which it isn't, which is what makes them idiots.

#84 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-06-11 04:05 PM | Reply

Simply espousing things like: federalism, Constitutionally-limited federal government, support for the 1st Amendment, support for the 2nd Amendment, checks and balances, etc. gets you labeled as a Nazi by some on this site.

If you haven't seen it you are willfully blind to it.

#81 | Posted by JeffJ

I've never seen someone arguing for lower taxes get called a nazi.

I've seen people defending nazis get called nazis, when nazi-sympathizer would probably be more accurate.

I've also seen people who argue for more gun control get called nazis, so let's not argue like this all occurs on the same side.

#85 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-06-11 04:06 PM | Reply

#72

Deeeeep Breath.

I've been doing my best to find out how people such as you can feel justified in calling someone like me a Nazi?

Look, you, and others like you, are so tightly wrapped up in your extreme biases towards anything considered a republican view, you literally have lost touch with reality.

And would you PLEASE just give one example of an ideology, that you consider a Nazi ideology, which I have promoted, much less even alluded to promoting? I'm begging you here.

#86 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 04:06 PM | Reply

I've also seen people who argue for more gun control get called nazis, so let's not argue like this all occurs on the same side.

#85 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

So you admit that it's a word that gets baselessly overused. That's a good start.

#87 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-06-11 04:09 PM | Reply

I've been doing my best to find out how people such as you can feel justified in calling someone like me a Nazi?

#86 | POSTED BY 9MMHEATER

Hyper-partisans don't just believe that those with whom they disagree are wrong. The source of said disagreement is due to their opponent as either being evil or stupid. A person simply cannot have good intentions, be intelligent and well-read and also disagree with a hyper-partisan.

#88 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-06-11 04:10 PM | Reply

And would you PLEASE just give one example of an ideology, that you consider a Nazi ideology, which I have promoted, much less even alluded to promoting? I'm begging you here.

#86 | Posted by 9mmHeater

I'm not calling you a nazi. I don't know you. You just showed up here, unless you're an old user hiding under a new name because everyone realized you were a moron before.

My only point is I'm white and I don't get called a nazi. Not once ever.

If you're getting called a nazi all the time, it's not because of your skin color, it's because of the things you say.

#89 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-06-11 04:12 PM | Reply

"A person simply cannot have good intentions, be intelligent and well-read and also disagree with a hyper-partisan."

Well-read?

He doesn't know who David Brooks is.

Stop. Coddling.

#90 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-06-11 04:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

9mmheater, please stop indulging yourself in victimhood. It's embarrassing to read, man.

You're behaving like a couple of posters in the past who used to derail threads all day long. Our host let them be until it got too stupid to ignore.

Why else come to a left-leaning website but to introduce fear, uncertainty, and doubt? It's not stimulating discussion, just indulging your masochistic personality.

Just ---- it and move on. As my old drill sergeant used to say.

#91 | Posted by madscientist at 2018-06-11 04:17 PM | Reply

Have ya ever been to Ireland, SS?

Woo!! Now I'm reminded why I stopped trying to have discussions with the likes of, SS and a few others here. It truly is impossible for them to have civil discourse, and I have tried every angle to do so over several years.

#92 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 04:19 PM | Reply

"Have ya ever been to Ireland, SS?"

Does this relate to the story you're not going to tell us?

Goody, I love non-story time!

#93 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-06-11 04:23 PM | Reply

#91

My goodness. I agree with your last sentence & was just hitting that point. Please forgive the fact I've stayed away from blog posting for about 2 years now, and having recently began engaging again, I've allowed myself to be sucked into things when I know better. It may always bother me to some extent that I can go to great lengths, and have, just trying to be understood by certain people, for the very reason of creating constructive discourse. But, it doesn't bother me as much, or for nearly as long as it once did. So, nicely timed advice & thanks.

To answer your question, I've always & only posted on liberal sites because I'm not interested in having people agreeing with me all day long, I do believe discourse is the only way this country improves in any given area of dispute or competing ideas, and I still fully believe those willing & capable to have discussion without insult are around. Inducing fear is something I've never even considered doing, tho I'm certain any number of things we write on blogs, emails & texts are easily misconstrued and taken out of the intended context, and often & I would say by anyone.

Apologies again for reverting to, and helping the thread devolve into, nonsense.

#94 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 04:45 PM | Reply

Woo!! Now I'm reminded why I stopped trying to have discussions with the likes of, SS and a few others here. It truly is impossible for them to have civil discourse, and I have tried every angle to do so over several years.

#92 | Posted by 9mmHeater

No. What does ireland have to do with the modern conservative movement and their affection for white supremacy?

I'm speaking to you in a civil manner. Not name calling, not cursing.
Saying "people are being mean to me!" is just another way to run away from losing an argument around here.

So what was your old username anyway?

#95 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-06-11 05:47 PM | Reply

I went to Ireland for 1 month, which turned into a stay of 3. I never dreamed I'd get to go to Europe, much less for that length of time so I know how fortunate I am.

As I said, it was right after Trump was elected, I arrived in Dublin January 11th, 2017, and I was surprised at the amount of interest about it and more struck by the many who approached me to ask questions. Maybe I shouldn't have been , but I was. It was my 1st trip overseas after all. The funny thing about the questions I was asked about the election, was the way in which I was approached and asked 95% of the time. It went like this. An Irishman would hear me say something in a pub, instantly know I was from the States, make his way over to me, & regardless how many times it happened the line of questioning was always the same, and went like this.

'How ya doin lad? Where ya from then?' My answer to that was always, I'm from Texas, good to meet you.
'Can I ask ya a question then?' Of course, please do. 'What about your man Trump?'. From there the discussion could go any direction just as here, but without any hostility & always with mutual respect.

Mind you, this interest was 98% coming from men from 30's on up in age. So, I'd gone there to get completely away from America, mind, body, & spirit yet here I was surrounded by America, in a general sense. It took me a month to figure how to, politely & effectively, extricate myself from this discussion, which I truly did not want to have in any way. At first, sure, my interest was peaked by their interest, but that wore off quickly for me & not for them.

I found a nice base for me in Ennis, Co. Clare on the west coast of Ireland, where I stayed 2 1/2 months and did my venturing out from there. 6 weeks into my stay, I'd by then found what worked best to avoid having to discuss American politics. Of course, it was the easiest, tho last manner I tried, out of several. I just would politely smile and say, 'I honestly appreciate your interest, but I must, respectfully, answer with 'no comment'.

To the point in following post & before I hit 4,000 again.

#96 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 06:14 PM | Reply

#96 | Posted by 9mmHeater

What is the point of that story?

You would have gotten the same questions anywhere in the world.

The entire world was shocked to learn that america, which had one been the shining city on a hill, had become so full of morons, bigots, and greedbags, that they now had enough people in their ranks to pick the president.

This changes all previous power structures, and the future of the planet.

If you're going to support trump, you deserve be forced to defend that support to people who will be harmed by his presidency. And that's nearly every living thing on the planet. Your "no comment" simply shows you lack the courage of your convictions.

#97 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-06-11 06:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Hey 9mm, I'm from Texas, also. Ever been to Westport, Ireland? County Mayo. We have a satellite manufacturing facility there for the European Market. I sometimes wish I could move there. Since I've got orange hair, I'd fit right in.

#98 | Posted by madscientist at 2018-06-11 06:33 PM | Reply

"What is the point of that story?"

Ditto.

#99 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-06-11 06:35 PM | Reply

By this time, I'd become a regular of a pub connected to the place I was staying, and also been 'taken in', best I can put it, as part of that area & community. The pub had a dance club in the rear of the building that was open weekends.

One night I met 2 Irish girls & we ended up partying, dancing and had a great time all night. The club was closing for the night, and the girls & I were talking outside before we were going back to the pub. Politics & Trump had not been mentioned by either of them the entire night, but then here it came. One girl said, ' I'm dying to know what you think about Trump being elected?' At the same time, a 20 something year old Irish guy had sidled up next to us, no doubt interested in the girls, but was just listening to us.

I explained to her why I'd rather not discuss it, yet she persisted and asked if I'd at least say who I voted for, and added, 'I bet you voted for Trump.' So, fueled with plenty of Guinness by then I said, 'if I tell you who I voted for do you promise not to go further with the discussion?' She said, yes. So, I simply said 'your guess was right.' At that point, the guy took a step forward, looked me in the eye, and said very seriously, 'well, you're just a --- white supremacist aren't ya then.'

That was my tipping point. I verbally launched into him & in his face. No way can I recall everything that spilled from my mouth, but I know it started with, 'do you have any idea what you just called me? Do you know what a white supremacist even is and how they think etc.?' Followed by giving him a detailed explanation of what he just labeled me, based solely on my vote, I am Caucasian, but I'd have voted for anyone other than Hillary, including Bernie, but that part I was rarely asked about nor did I offer freely very often.

I also know I ended my tirade by saying, 'you do realize that your country is made up of a population that is 90% white, 1.7% Muslim, about 3% black with the rest being other, don't you? Yet, somehow, I'm the white supremacist among us?'

Now, I want to be VERY clear on this. I fell in love with the Irish people & their country & this was the only instance where anything like this was said to me. To the guy's credit, he knew what he said was extremely insulting to me, obviously from my reaction, and offered his hand & apologized.

That is a lot to try to explain in short fashion, and I've left things out that may have helped paint a better picture of my experience as a whole, and relate in ways to the topic. My whole point is, labeling someone as being something so atrocious & insulting to them, and is baseless in its assumption, is reckless & is no way to engage in civil discourse.

I hope some of this makes sense, as I am not trying to further an argument over it, but I did make the mistake of making mention of it. Thus, for me, I was obligated to explain it as best I could.

#100 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 07:07 PM | Reply

#100 | Posted by 9mmHeater

They were right to call you out.

Trump supporters don't deserve a safe space from facts, logic, or the results of their decision.

You may not be a white supremacist, but you SUPPORT a white supremacist. Does that help ease your conscience at all?

#101 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-06-11 07:24 PM | Reply

"Ever been to Westport, Ireland? County Mayo."

#98

I wanted to visit every county there, MadScientist, but Mayo is one I did not get to make it to. As you know, getting around can be quite the challenge, especially factoring in checking out of a base you may have, to check in elsewhere (almost everywhere I visited was at least a 2 day stay). Of course this means toting all your luggage with you etc.

After getting to know the people I met in Ennis, or better them getting to know me, I was fortunate enough to have been taken on several trips by locals, which took the green bus out of the equation. Very grateful for that as well. Some wanted to just show me where they grew up, while other times I'd be given a lift to a destination, dropped off, and picked up 2-3 days later. Even with that, I must say, about 2 months into my stay I started to become very drained, mentally & physically.

I still think of my time there, especially those I became close with, on a daily basis & the reason I ended up there for 3 months was I was trying to find a way to move there myself. It almost happened, but that's a whole other story in itself, of course.

#102 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 07:29 PM | Reply

SS, I have a full understanding now of how you see things, so you no longer need worry about me attempting a reasonable discussion with you.

#103 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 07:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

SS, I have a full understanding now of how you see things, so you no longer need worry about me attempting a reasonable discussion with you.

#103 | Posted by 9mmHeater

Aww. Yeah you're not running away from a debate. You're taking the high road because my words were too harsh on your delicate years.

Maybe go change your username again and we'll talk again someday.

#104 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-06-11 07:43 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I will say one last thing tho. You are mistaken to think that every Irish person thinks as you do. The many many discussions I had on politics while there were just as it would be here. Half saw it as you do, tho nowhere nearly as biased & always respectfully, with the other half were glad of the outcome of the election.

And very lastly, did you catch the part where I mentioned getting out of America to be out of America, mind, body, and spirit. That is the reason I did not want to, however still did for over 1 month, every single hour of every single day, engage in discussing it. If you can't understand that, which I seriously doubt that you can, I hope someday you are able to.

#105 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 07:43 PM | Reply

If it were a debate I'd continue.

Later

#106 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 07:44 PM | Reply

Hang in there 9mm. You've passed the "are-you-an-old-poster-come-back-as-someone-new" test. Sorry to be so brusque with you earlier.


#107 | Posted by madscientist at 2018-06-11 07:47 PM | Reply

"'well, you're just a --- white supremacist aren't ya then.'"

But in your mind, you think you're just a Hillary Hater, is that the point?

#108 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-06-11 07:47 PM | Reply

I will say one last thing tho. You are mistaken to think that every Irish person thinks as you do.
#105 | Posted by 9mmHeater

Can you provide a quote where I said that?

No?

Then you're just assigning false positions to people and arguing against straw men. A real sign you're winning the debate.

#109 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-06-11 07:49 PM | Reply

Madscientist, I think I sat next to a possible colleague of yours on my flight back. I think there were a total of 4-5 of them on the plane, and I know he mentioned Mayo and business they were doing there. He mentioned having made several trips back & forth for it.

I was so wiped by then, and the 4 hour trip thru the airport and customs and do not recall his name. Tall gentleman, greyish hair, about 220-230 lbs I'd guess. I also know it was a business based in technology and remember saying to him how great the need was for Ireland. Which is why I'm almost certain it was to do with satellites.

#110 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 07:57 PM | Reply

#107

As they say, no worries at all, my friend. Or my favorite, 'Not a bodder'. I was saying that one for a months after getting back, and not on purpose either.

#111 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 08:01 PM | Reply

few months that is

#112 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 08:02 PM | Reply

MadS, I flew Aer Lingus and it was on April 10 or 11 2017 coming back.

#113 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 08:06 PM | Reply

This is pharmaceuticals. I couldn't get over how many times the Irish inserted "like" into a sentence. I had to constantly tell them to slow down because I couldn't understand what they were saying sometimes.

#114 | Posted by madscientist at 2018-06-11 08:12 PM | Reply

When my counterpart came to Texas, she said, "Is it always this hot here?" I told her, yes, it's October. It gets to 105F which is 40C in the summers sometimes. She said the heat was killing her, but she took a taxi to a horse-riding stable about 40 miles away and wanted to ride a horse. I told her I would've taken her. I was wondering if she wanted to fire a gun or rifle, but didn't ask. LOL.

She was a trip.

#115 | Posted by madscientist at 2018-06-11 08:15 PM | Reply

While she was here she bought about 10 pairs of Levi's 501s. She told me they're a hundred dollars in equivalent Euros per pair there. Here they're about $40.

#116 | Posted by madscientist at 2018-06-11 08:17 PM | Reply

I had to constantly tell them to slow down because I couldn't understand what they were saying sometimes.

HAHA! Man, it took me at least a month, to be able to catch full sentences. Ever have an old, drunk, from Northern Ireland invite you over for a chat in a loud pub? Oh my..... Happened only once to this extreme, but after a minute of trying to understand a single word he was saying, I just started waiting for him to finish a comment, leaning my ear right next to his mouth while he talked, then I'd lean back, smile and nod in agreement or laugh if he laughed.

Man I miss it. You are so lucky my friend.

Where did I get satellites from?

#117 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 08:22 PM | Reply

Tought crowd tonight.

#118 | Posted by jpw at 2018-06-11 08:23 PM | Reply

I told her, yes, it's October.

Oh do I know how true that statement is and have said something similar many times to people who've never been. Especially Central & Southeast Texas.

#119 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 08:25 PM | Reply

She said she'd never felt heat like this before. It was about 80-85F. It's a constant 45-55F there year round. She also told me the entire island are alcoholics and admit it. But they don't drink and drive because the penalties are so harsh....And they don't need to with a pub on every corner. They just walk a block home.

Probably why there a so many DWIs here in Texas. It's 10-20 miles to a bar. And the only way to get there is by car. And there aren't a lot of taxis or public transportation here. I'd say upwards of 10% of the male population has one in this county.

#120 | Posted by madscientist at 2018-06-11 08:31 PM | Reply

#116

Good on you for getting her to Texas. I was struck by how often I'd hear girls or anyone mention they're 'going on holiday'. Most often they wanted New York or Boston, and always for the shopping regardless of destination in the US.

#121 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 08:31 PM | Reply

She said she'd never felt heat like this before.

Yeah. I get that all the time.

#122 | Posted by jpw at 2018-06-11 08:41 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"I'd say upwards of 10% of the male population has one in this county."

On Quora it's estimated that 17% of US drivers have a DUI conviction. This seems reasonable bases on the number of people I know with one. As I've gotten older, I've met more and more people who have one.

I'm guessing only the insurance companies really know, since they'd want to know for their actuaries.

DUI wasn't even a thing before technology replaced horses with cars. Leaving your forgotten kid to cook in the car seat wasn't a thing until car seats were mandated.

Just an example of how there's a hidden cost to technology.

#123 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-06-11 08:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#120

Yes. I had the pleasure of the 4 seasons a day weather there. Well, once winter was, apparently, over. They said it was anyway and the sun did come out in late March a few times. Got to see a tropical storm come thru too. Been thru 4 hurricanes so it was really cool to experience it coming from the North Atlantic. Plus it was at night...very cool.

Pubs. I knew there would be tons of them but had no idea they would be, depending on where you are, the place where many go to eat, drink, socialize, watch a game. Not many movie theaters etc. Certainly not in Ennis, La Hinch, Doolen. Pretty much all of Co. Clare. The walking aspect makes it all the more perfect too. I know they have their share of alcholism, but I encountered quite a few who moderated their drinking. At least in the pubs.....

Now, Co. Galway, it was very difficult to make myself leave that place. If I ever get to go back, that will no doubt be my base of operating out of.

I've also often told people that everyone drives in Texas. % people meeting at the same place and each will have their own car. It's just a must in most places.

#124 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 08:46 PM | Reply

%? Man I think my mind is growing mushy. :-)

#125 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 08:49 PM | Reply

How did this thread about a well respected sane republican standing up against our disgusting president on the international stage turn into a "my favorite vacation" trip report?

#126 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-06-11 08:50 PM | Reply

Why ask why. Drink Bud Dry.

**BURRRRRP***

#127 | Posted by madscientist at 2018-06-11 08:57 PM | Reply

I miss Bud Dry.

Just kidding. It's Zima we all miss.

#128 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-06-11 09:00 PM | Reply

Yeah, it doesn't smell like beer on the drive home.

Sir, have you been drinking tonight? No. Absolutely not.

#129 | Posted by madscientist at 2018-06-11 09:02 PM | Reply

I'm pretty sure cops know you're lying whenever you answer with "sir" but that alone is not sufficient to establish probable cause.

Maybe Gorsuch can fix that.

#130 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-06-11 09:09 PM | Reply

I gained 12 lbs over there and it was not the food, which is so clean. Think it had something to do with the stools in the pubs. I refuse to blame the Guinness.

#131 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 09:10 PM | Reply

How did this thread about a well respected sane republican standing up against our disgusting president on the international stage turn into a "my favorite vacation" trip report?

40-odd posts by 9mm. Reminds me of when ------ first fell in love with Goatman.

#132 | Posted by REDIAL at 2018-06-11 09:15 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

You can plonk 9mm and won't lose a word worth reading.

#133 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-06-11 09:21 PM | Reply

40-odd posts by 9mm

Dang, now why do ya have to put it all on the new guy? No worries tho, according to some I'm an expert at claiming being a victim. (sarcasm)

#134 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 09:21 PM | Reply

#133

Are you trolling me, Clownshack? Tho, on this thread, I'd have to agree.

#135 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-11 09:23 PM | Reply

Dang, now why do ya have to put it all on the new guy?

Habit. You'll get used to it. :-)

#136 | Posted by REDIAL at 2018-06-11 09:28 PM | Reply

Yes. I had the pleasure of the 4 seasons a day weather there.

Michigan has only 2 seasons: Winter and road construction.

#137 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-06-12 07:06 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. - #58 | Posted by Hans at 2018-06-11 02:43 PM
Welcome back Hans.

#138 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-06-12 07:09 AM | Reply

Avignore is Goatman. - #56 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2018-06-11 02:20 PM
People around here would rather pretend they're a different person than admit they were wrong. -#61 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-06-11 02:56 PM

Please allow me to clear the air on something...
I communicate privately with Goatman. I can tell all of you, unequivocally, that Avigdore is NOT Goatman.
#19 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-17 01:33 PM

Turn on private browsing. -#66 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-06-11 03:30 PM
I explained that I'm on a government computer (and could do that if I were on my home computer). The US doesn't allow private surfing (at least not NMCI)

You may not be a white supremacist, but you SUPPORT a white supremacist. Does that help ease your conscience at all? - #101 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-06-11 07:24 PM
If you support the first amendment, you support white supremacists. If you don't support the first amendment, you're a fascist. Pick your poison and move on.

#139 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-06-12 07:22 AM | Reply

"If you support the first amendment, you support white supremacists. If you don't support the first amendment, you're a fascist. Pick your poison and move on."

Man... Talk about succinct.

Wish I'd have said it.

#140 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-12 12:48 PM | Reply

I wrote this for some friends on Facebook who were getting frustrated because they were arguing with not-liberals for the first time and couldn't figure out why it was so frustrating. This is from 2015, so some of it is dated.

Common conservative arguments on Facebook:
1) Ad hominem. Discredit/attack/focus on the source, the messenger or the delivery of your argument. Don't respond to the intent, substance or content whenever possible.
2) Credit "your side" for the "other side's" success, based on "your side's" opposition to whatever you're talking about.
3) Change the subject completely. This is commonly with a "what about?" statement, but can be anything...Benghazi, Socialism and the latest fake scandal are also commonly used.
4) Tell you that Bush was president a long time ago, and to get over it. George W. Bush is off the hook for anything that happened ever. This only applies to Bush, Jimmy Carter is fair game.
5) Completely deny your post is factual based solely on their belief. Evidence, common knowledge, data...all irrelevant if they believe something else.
6) Personal attack.
7) No response whatsoever (if there is someone who is clearly shown to be wrong about a previous assertion, the easiest thing to do is claim they never saw the post).
8) Cherry-pick one of the points or conclusions in the article and discredit the entire thing based on a twisted interpretation of that point.
9) Wait to see if someone on Fox "news" or breitbart. com (or for those who "never listen to/watch/read those outlets," wherever else they get the exact same talking points/framing/messaging) responds, and then just repeat that point as proof that a majority of Americans disagree or something like that.
10) False equivalency. "Both sides" (insert text).
11) Defeatism without admitting defeat/Cynicism. Your argument can't be right, and their argument is weak, so the answer must be that nothing can be done about it. Throw your arms in the air, and suggest that an external, immovable force is at work and anyone who disagrees with them is naive.
12) Reference a baseless opinion, use it as fact, build your argument around it.
13) Blame Obama.
14) Argue semantics. Whenever someone uses a term (racist, bigot, a political label, etc.), make the argument about the *word*, not the content. Claim that your opponent is making unfair assumptions about you, and that you are merely trying to have a pleasant conversation, but it's impossible because they're being mean to you.
15) Chewbacca Defense - look it up.

#141 | Posted by chuffy at 2018-06-12 12:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I used to just put the number into the comments section after a while. I used it for a while, but it got too depressing because my entire comments section just became me replying #3, #10 and only my liberal friends understood what I was doing.

#142 | Posted by chuffy at 2018-06-12 01:02 PM | Reply

#13 needs to change from Obama to Hillary to make this more current. Most of the other stuff (except the Bush thing) is still relevant.

#143 | Posted by chuffy at 2018-06-12 01:03 PM | Reply

"If you support the first amendment, you support white supremacists. If you don't support the first amendment, you're a fascist. Pick your poison and move on."

This is one of the stupidest statements I think I've ever read.

Here, I'll fix it for you:

If you support the First Amendment, you support the freedom of speech of white supremacists."

White supremacists are free to say whatever they want, and I am free to describe them in any way I choose. Having freedom of speech does not mean freedom from the consequences of your speech among citizens. Now, if you want a REAL violation of the First Amendment, have a government official actively work towards abridging your right to protest based on lies and actively work to discredit the free press. That's good ol' Republicanism for you!

#144 | Posted by chuffy at 2018-06-12 01:08 PM | Reply

"If you support the First Amendment, you support the freedom of speech of white supremacists."

I agree that this is the correct way of putting it.

Can't speak for someone else but, Avidgore may have been alluding to how some on this thread, and other threads, claim that support of Trump, in any way, means a person supports white supremacy. Which is, obviously, an absurd notion.

#145 | Posted by 9mmHeater at 2018-06-12 01:39 PM | Reply

It's not absurd to suggest that someone who supports an overt racist is unable to separate themselves from supporting racism in general. That's fair game.

Drumpf is an overt racist, so supporting him means, at the very least, that you're good with that aspect of him. Defending his racism is a sign of something else. Can't really get away from that.

#146 | Posted by chuffy at 2018-06-12 02:41 PM | Reply

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