Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, April 23, 2018

Ever wonder why it's so difficult to argue with that agitating distant relative or high school classmate who posts political -- albeit inaccurate -- memes across social media? It could be they are simply ignorant of their own ignorance. People who know less about politics are more confident that they know more and, when partisan identities are thrown into the mix, the effect is intensified, according to a new study published in Political Psychology.

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... individuals with low levels of competence will judge themselves to be more competent than they really are, while people who are highly competent underestimate their excellence.

And competent people know enough to know to always follow the money, because that's where competent people know they'll always find the answer.

#1 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-04-22 08:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

And gifted conmen know enough to know what lies to tell the clueless to get their vote.

#2 | Posted by bored at 2018-04-22 11:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

i think "confident" is the wrong word, here.

#3 | Posted by ichiro at 2018-04-22 11:29 PM | Reply

Actually a pretty good read. It isn't just Politics either. What's amazing is I know someone this fits to a T in non-political areas. Won't admit he's wrong even when you back him into a corner with facts as well. Keeps insisting he is right when in black and white he isn't.

#4 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2018-04-23 01:14 PM | Reply

In other words, stupid people are too stupid to know how stupid they are.

Go visit the breitbart comment section for proof.

#5 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-04-23 01:15 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

NULLIFIDIAN, ARE YOU READING THIS ARTICLE? NULLIFIDIAN, READ THIS ARTICLE!! SHEEPLESCHISM, YOU TOO!!

#6 | Posted by moder8 at 2018-04-23 01:25 PM | Reply | Funny: 7 | Newsworthy 1

NULLIFIDIAN, ARE YOU READING THIS ARTICLE? NULLIFIDIAN, READ THIS ARTICLE!! SHEEPLESCHISM, YOU TOO!!

POSTED BY MODER8 AT 2018-04-23 01:25 PM | REPLY

A whole lot of Hillary supporters need to read that too.

#7 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-04-23 01:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

A whole lot of Hillary supporters need to read that too.

Everybody but me needs to read this.

#8 | Posted by jpw at 2018-04-23 01:35 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Laura, Honey, you and other Puritopians like you decided Trump wasnt worth beating, so you helped him win.

The candidate who won the popular vote would have been a much better choice for POTUS than Trump.

You built that.

#9 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2018-04-23 01:36 PM | Reply | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 4

Laura, Honey, you and other Puritopians like you decided Trump wasnt worth beating, so you helped him win.
The candidate who won the popular vote would have been a much better choice for POTUS than Trump.
You built that.

POSTED BY OLDWHISKEYSOUR AT 2018-04-23 01:36 PM | REPLY

OldWhiskeySour sweetie. You offered up one of the most demonstrative horrible canidates ever. Trump is a dumpster fire sure but Hillary supported the worst war crime this country has ever perpetrated. Not only that she didn't learn anything from it with her pushing for war in Libya. Not to mention all her conjob screeds that are too numerous to list. But do carry on blaming me. It is what Hillary supporters are great at. Blaming anyone and everyone but Hillary herself.

#10 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-04-23 02:31 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

Laura, Honey, you and other Puritopians like you decided Trump wasnt worth beating, so you helped him win.
The candidate who won the popular vote would have been a much better choice for POTUS than Trump.
You built that.
POSTED BY OLDWHISKEYSOUR AT 2018-04-23 01:36 PM | REPLY
OldWhiskeySour sweetie. You offered up one of the most demonstrative horrible canidates ever. Trump is a dumpster fire sure but Hillary supported the worst war crime this country has ever perpetrated. Not only that she didn't learn anything from it with her pushing for war in Libya. Not to mention all her conjob screeds that are too numerous to list. But do carry on blaming me. It is what Hillary supporters are great at. Blaming anyone and everyone but Hillary herself.
#10 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

Laura,

Who would do more damage? Hillary or Trump?

There were only two real options for the White House. Pretending otherwise doesn't change that. Voting third party doesn't change that. Not voting doesn't change that.

We had a chance to put the lesser of two evils in office and we didn't.

I don't care what you do the other 1460 days between Presidential elections, but on election day you choose the idiot who will do the least damage to the country or you become partially responsible for the damage of the worse option.

#11 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-23 02:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

Perhaps Laura Belle could listen to an excellent lecture on Freedom of Speech, and curb her enthusiastic HDS.

www.youtube.com

#12 | Posted by Corky at 2018-04-23 02:51 PM | Reply

There were only two real options for the White House. Pretending otherwise doesn't change that. Voting third party doesn't change that. Not voting doesn't change that.
We had a chance to put the lesser of two evils in office and we didn't.
I don't care what you do the other 1460 days between Presidential elections, but on election day you choose the idiot who will do the least damage to the country or you become partially responsible for the damage of the worse option.

#11 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT AT 2018-04-23 02:36 PM | FLAG:

You served up a crap sandwich and expected me to eat it. No thanks. Want my vote give me something I can vote for. Until then I will be taking my service elsewhere.

#13 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-04-23 03:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"You served up a crap sandwich and expected me to eat it. No thanks"

You're still eating it, is the thing.

I know you like to say both party's crap is equally awful. It's not.

#14 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-23 03:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

You built that.

#9 | POSTED BY OLDWHISKEYSOUR

Because I think it's worth pointing out.. No matter how Laura voted, Trump was still going to win Kansas. Laura's vote did not matter. I didn't vote for Hillary, yet she DID win my state. My vote didn't matter either. The Trump team knew which Checkers pieces to move to win the game. It's that simple.

Perhaps Hillary should have spent more time in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, instead of fundraising in California....

Perhaps if Corky, Twin and RCade had spent more time knocking on thousands of doors in Florida, instead of yaking at dozens of people on this site....

Perhaps if millennial's showed up at the booth. Perhaps if the half of the electorate that skipped it had shown up at the booth...

There is a lot of blame for Trump to go around. But if progressives of all stripes don't move along from the blame game soon and unite their electorate, Trump may just get another four years. You want to win in 2020? You will need a better candidate. And that's what we all should be focusing on.. finding a better candidate.

#15 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2018-04-23 03:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

There were only two real options for the White House. Pretending otherwise doesn't change that. Voting third party doesn't change that. Not voting doesn't change that.
We had a chance to put the lesser of two evils in office and we didn't.
I don't care what you do the other 1460 days between Presidential elections, but on election day you choose the idiot who will do the least damage to the country or you become partially responsible for the damage of the worse option.
#11 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT AT 2018-04-23 02:36 PM | FLAG:
You served up a crap sandwich and expected me to eat it. No thanks. Want my vote give me something I can vote for. Until then I will be taking my service elsewhere.
#13 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

Then you voted for Trump and you are as responsible for it as the Republicans. You had your chance to help stop him and you didn't.

And the Republican National Committee would like to thank you for contributing to the Trump Campaign. They know that all voters can help make a difference and they are glad you decided not to.

#16 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-23 03:38 PM | Reply

Then you voted for Trump and you are as responsible for it as the Republicans. You had your chance to help stop him and you didn't.
And the Republican National Committee would like to thank you for contributing to the Trump Campaign. They know that all voters can help make a difference and they are glad you decided not to.

POSTED BY SYCOPHANT AT 2018-04-23 03:38 PM | REPLY

Negatory I voted for Jill not Trump. I'm so sorry you can't understand this.

#17 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-04-23 03:40 PM | Reply

Stein had no path to victory, not sure why you bet on a horse to win when the best she could do is third place.

#18 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-23 03:43 PM | Reply

Stein had no path to victory, not sure why you bet on a horse to win when the best she could do is third place.

#18 | Posted by snoofy

If you're not in a swing state, you can vote for whoever you want to send a message to the parties about the type of candidates they need to offer to win your vote.

If you're in a swing state, you have the responsibility to vote for the lesser evil.

#19 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-04-23 03:53 PM | Reply

If you're in a swing state, you have the responsibility to vote for the lesser evil.

POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2018-04-23 03:53 PM | REPLY

WRONG It's that attitude that dooms presidential campaigns. Your only duty is to vote your conscience THAT'S IT. You want my vote EARN IT.

#20 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-04-23 04:08 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#15 | Posted by Whatsleft
You want to win in 2020? You will need a better candidate. And that's what we all should be focusing on.. finding a better candidate.

The Dems must be doing this, but mostly behinds the scenes, which is probably wise to keep their candidate wish list private until the time is right. Otherwise, you provide the GOP with more time to character assassinate the potential Dem candidates.

#21 | Posted by babyhuey at 2018-04-23 05:05 PM | Reply

- Perhaps if Corky, Twin and RCade

Laura, and those like her, would have voted in such a way as to help Trump even if they lived in a swing state. Because voting for their favoritist favorite rather than voting strategically for what is best for the country is what they do.

Ask her.

#22 | Posted by Corky at 2018-04-23 05:21 PM | Reply

Great article. describes everyone up thread.

#23 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2018-04-23 05:42 PM | Reply

You want to win in 2020? You will need a better candidate. And that's what we all should be focusing on.. finding a better candidate.
#15 | POSTED BY WHATSLEFT

They're focusing on urine saturated video tapes that don't exist.

Also, BOLO for Bathrobe Tom Brady - He's dangerous. Last seen fleeing stripper parking lot-Las Vegas.

Let's not forget, Melania slapped his hand. AND...did you know? She's throwing a state dinner for Macron, WITHOUT an event planner!!
Tee-hee-hee.

#24 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2018-04-23 05:46 PM | Reply

Great article. describes everyone up thread.

#23 | POSTED BY SHEEPLESCHISM

Oh the irony

#25 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-23 05:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

WRONG It's that attitude that dooms presidential campaigns. Your only duty is to vote your conscience THAT'S IT. You want my vote EARN IT.

#20 | Posted by LauraMohr

It's THAT attitude that gave us president trump, and all the damage he's causing to suffering people and the planet.

While you wait for the perfect candidate, morons and -------- will vote for whatever slimeball the GOP offers them, and they'll win.

#26 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-04-23 05:57 PM | Reply

Then you voted for Trump and you are as responsible for it as the Republicans. You had your chance to help stop him and you didn't.
And the Republican National Committee would like to thank you for contributing to the Trump Campaign. They know that all voters can help make a difference and they are glad you decided not to.
POSTED BY SYCOPHANT AT 2018-04-23 03:38 PM | REPLY
Negatory I voted for Jill not Trump. I'm so sorry you can't understand this.
#17 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

You're right. You're worse than Trump voters.

They are too stupid to see what kind of person Trump is or how he would damage the country.

You knew. You knew there was a less worse option who had a chance of winning. And you threw your vote away.

You had a chance to help stop him. You didn't.

You're as guilty as the Republicans.

#27 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-23 06:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

- a less worse option

LOL. That's some plan you got there.

Sounds too good to be true.

#28 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2018-04-23 06:08 PM | Reply

There's not one honest broker with regards to Hillary supporters. Not a single one. Sad commentary that is.

#29 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-04-23 06:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

There's not one honest broker with regards to Hillary supporters. Not a single one. Sad commentary that is.

#29 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

You're the one being dishonest by trying to pretend you did anything.

I hated Hillary. But she would do less damage then Trump. That was good enough for me to try to help her win.

#30 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-23 06:12 PM | Reply

How long you gonna keep pickin' at that scab? It's really helping us prepare for what lies ahead.

I don't know which group of people are stupider: HRC supporters who are angry that so many progressives refused to support HRC. Or the many progressives who can't just leave well enough alone in regard to rubbing HRC supporters' faces in it. The election is over. HRC lost. Trump is in the White House. Let's move on already.

#31 | Posted by moder8 at 2018-04-23 06:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

- You're right. You're worse than Trump voters.

The article is about you, Sycophant. Oh woke One.

You're smarter than everyone else. especially those stupid Jill Stein voters, who OWED their vote to Hillary.

OWED it! Because that's what good little sycophants do when faced with evil. They for slightly less evil.

#32 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2018-04-23 06:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

They're focusing on urine saturated video tapes that don't exist.
Tee-hee-hee.

#24 | Posted by SheepleSchism

YOu know it's true because the world's most famous liar says so. And you believe him. What's that say about you?

#33 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-04-23 06:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"There's not one honest broker with regards to Hillary supporters. Not a single one. Sad commentary that is."

How about Bernie Sanders?

#34 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-23 06:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

And you believe him. What's that say about you?
#33 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

I believe evidence, not flappy arms.

Same is true for bombing at will without evidence.

Your flappy arms might well lead us into a nuclear confrontation. Keep flapping, Flappy.

#35 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2018-04-23 06:33 PM | Reply

I believe evidence, not flappy arms.

Same is true for bombing at will without evidence.

Your flappy arms might well lead us into a nuclear confrontation. Keep flapping, Flappy.

#35 | Posted by SheepleSchism

Awesome. You said the tapes don't exist. Where's your evidence?

So far nothing in Steele's dossier has been proven to be false. Tell us how you know the pee tape will be an outlier.

#36 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-04-23 06:40 PM | Reply

- That was good enough for me to try to help her win.

It was good enough for Bernie, too. Unfortunately, the number of Purity Pony ex-BernieBros in the 3 Rust Belt swing states that cost her the EC, 80,000, was enough to give us Trump.

"By flipping three states -- Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin -- by a total of less than 80,000 votes, he won. That razor-thin margin, about six-tenths of a percent of the nearly 14 million votes cast in those states, wouldn't even fill the Big House at the University of Michigan."

www.usatoday.com

Bubba and Barack won, twice each, by having liberals, moderates, and conservatives vote for them. When the extremes of one of those groups defected (to Russia!) Trump won.

And he could again if those three factions don't stand together rather than fail apart.

#37 | Posted by Corky at 2018-04-23 06:53 PM | Reply

I believe evidence, not flappy arms
#35 | Posted by SheepleSchism

What lucky timing for you:
www.drudge.com

#38 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-04-23 07:00 PM | Reply

READ IT

www.politico.com

#39 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-04-23 07:09 PM | Reply

READ IT

www.politico.com

#39 | Posted by LauraMohr

Title is misleading. The "smartest" swing state progressives knew that clinton is much closer to their goals than trump. It should say "most STUBBORN progressives".

#40 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-04-23 07:18 PM | Reply

#39

"Hillary is a known evil. Trump is unknown. They'd rather bet on the unknown, since it will also send a big message to Team Dem that they can no longer abuse progressives."

Well, now they know what they should have known before; Trump was always more of an evil choice.

Even for poor, "abused" far lefties. Are the folks at "Naked Capitalism" STILL proud of their vote?

They are morans if they are.

Naked Capitalism is "Webber/Smith graduated from Harvard College and Harvard Business School. She had 20 years of experience in the financial services industry with Goldman Sachs, McKinsey & Co., and Sumitomo Bank.[3]"

#41 | Posted by Corky at 2018-04-23 07:19 PM | Reply

From #39:
"Even on Wall Street, a powerful Sanders contingent so hates what Clinton stands for -- the status quo -- they'll pull the lever for almost anyone else."

Yeah.
You made an emotional choice based on the negative emotion of hate.
That wasn't a smart thing to do.

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-23 07:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Even on Wall Street, a powerful Sanders contingent so hates what Clinton stands for -- the status quo -- they'll pull the lever for almost anyone else."

#42 | Posted by snoofy

Clinton didn't just stand for the status quo. She stood for FAKE liberalism. TALKING liberal, while taking money from bankers and corporations - the forces that prevent society from making liberal progress. Anyone with half a brain knows that she's either lying to the banks, or lying to the liberal base.

#43 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-04-23 07:34 PM | Reply

"She stood for FAKE liberalism"

What's that mean?
Under Obama, America legalized gay marriage and gays in the military.
Was that fake liberalism?

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-23 07:40 PM | Reply

-knows that she's either lying to the banks, or lying to the liberal base.

We know that the banks pay a whole lot more than the liberal base.

#45 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2018-04-23 07:44 PM | Reply

Here's a post about the bloggers at Naked Capitalism blog who wanted to take the chance on Trump... he's barely mentioned on their site these days... and these are wealthy libs who aren't taking much of a chance... as a matter of fact, they got a big fat tax cut while Laura got diddly.

"Pretty words. But here's the problem with these kinds of arguments: only certain sets of people can afford to make them.

The "smartest progressives" that Smith referred to, for instance, are, demographically, a small segment of the broad center-left coalition of forces currently supporting one or the other of the Democratic candidates. They're an even tinier portion of the American population as a whole.

.
But those who denounce Clinton and urge a vote for Trump are consigning others to be the first to run at the Right's machine guns. They can take this position because the future that is on the line, for the most part, isn't theirs. They aren't the ones who will suffer first or disproportionately when a Trump presidency begins."

But in politics – especially for people who should be paying attention to the bigger questions of long-term strategy and are serious about making change – purity of principle isn't enough. It can't be. It is necessary to mix in a little more pragmatism with our ideological fervor. Our votes and our activism cannot hinge solely on the supposedly "principled" concern of which candidate "deserves" our support.

"Do poor people deserve the cuts that will come their way under a Trump presidency? Do people of color deserve to be on the receiving end of a spike of racism and violence that will be legitimated by the rhetoric spewing from a Trump White House?

Do immigrants deserve to face the prospects of permanent family separation and deportation? Do women deserve to be "punished" when they seek out reproductive health services? Do young people deserve to see their future continuously mortgaged by an every-increasing burden of debt?

much more

www.peoplesworld.org

#46 | Posted by Corky at 2018-04-23 07:52 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

-knows that she's either lying to the banks, or lying to the liberal base.
We know that the banks pay a whole lot more than the liberal base.

#45 | POSTED BY SHEEPLESCHISM

Seriously, when you have nothing left, you go to trolling?

Seriously, considering the elderly collecting social security tend to vote right by large margins, it would seem those Dems are the ones paying the taxes.

#47 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-23 08:12 PM | Reply

What's that mean?
Under Obama, America legalized gay marriage and gays in the military.
Was that fake liberalism?

#44 | Posted by snoofy

Obama also let the bankers get away with crashing the economy without being punished. Because he cozied up to the bankers, a lot of americans felt betrayed, so they said "screw the democrats then" and voted for trump, or just didn't show up to vote.

Obama being a wall street "liberal" is one reason we have trump today.

#48 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-04-23 08:16 PM | Reply

"Obama also let the bankers get away with crashing the economy without being punished."

I didn't ask about that.
I asked about gay rights.

#49 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-23 08:28 PM | Reply

"Obama being a wall street "liberal" is one reason we have trump today."

Is Trump not a wall street "liberal" then?

#50 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-23 08:28 PM | Reply

I asked about gay rights.

#49 | Posted by snoofy

Does standing up for gay rights mean you also have to protect wall street criminals?

#51 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-04-23 08:35 PM | Reply

#46 | POSTED BY CORKY

Post erects a scarecrow. "go back - Danger - Vote Less Evil"

#52 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2018-04-23 10:26 PM | Reply

#SniperExplained

#53 | Posted by e1g1 at 2018-04-23 11:08 PM | Reply

"Does standing up for gay rights mean you also have to protect wall street criminals?"

Is standing up for gay rights wrong, if you also protect wall street criminals?

#54 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-23 11:44 PM | Reply

Laura, and those like her, would have voted in such a way as to help Trump even if they lived in a swing state. Because voting for their favoritist favorite rather than voting strategically for what is best for the country is what they do.

---- you corky.

This mindset is why we're stuck with the two party system to begin with.

The very system that gave us Hillary v Trump.

As usual you lack perspective.

#55 | Posted by jpw at 2018-04-24 01:37 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

"This mindset is why we're stuck with the two party system to begin with."

We have a two party system because that was how we set up the system. When three parties run a candidate the two candidates with most similar views lose to the minority candidate. We need a two party system which doesn't even let third parties run in the general election unless they can meet some reasonable threshold of support so that we can have majority party rule. We had a minority candidate win in 2000, he took us into unnecessary war, Trump could too. We do not ever want a minority candidate leading this nation to war.

#56 | Posted by danni at 2018-04-24 07:19 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

We need a two party system which doesn't even let third parties run in the general election unless they can meet some reasonable threshold of support so that we can have majority party rule. We had a minority candidate win in 2000, he took us into unnecessary war, Trump could too. We do not ever want a minority candidate leading this nation to war.

POSTED BY DANNI AT 2018-04-24 07:19 AM | REPLY

You just proved Hagbard Celine correct.

".... I'll evaluate the situation. Then I'll support the side that offers the most hope."
Who are you kidding? You've been on here lately not just acknowledging the reality of our two party system, but arguing in favor of it. We know there's now way in hell you'll be voting for a Republican so why pretend there is anything that has a snowball's chance in hell of affecting your loyalty to the Democrats?

POSTED BY HAGBARD_CELINE AT 2018-04-21 11:16 PM | REPLY

BTW Your attitude is what's wrong with America. You are in essence saying if someone wants to run for POTUS as a third party candidate in the general election they should be forbidden. It's that elitist snooty attitude that has turned many a liberal from the Democratic party. It's no wonder the Democratic party is in such shambles.

#57 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-04-24 07:43 AM | Reply

on election day you choose the idiot who will do the least damage to the country - #11 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-23 02:36 PM
That was the 3rd party candidate

Stein had no path to victory - #18 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-23 03:43 PM
History proves that Clinton had no more of a path to victory than Stein did. Had every Clinton voter voted Stein instead, then she's have won.

While you wait for the perfect candidate - #26 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-04-23 05:57 PM
She didn't wait for the perfect candidate, she voted for the best candidate.

We had a minority candidate win in 2000, he took us into unnecessary war, Trump - #56 | Posted by Danni at 2018-04-24 07:19 AM
I'm pretty sure it was Congress who authorized war.

#58 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-04-24 09:14 AM | Reply

-This mindset is why we're stuck with the two party system to begin with.

Awww... that's cute. J PW'd raging against the machine rather than finding a way to beat it. Let us know how that werks out for you.

-BTW Your attitude is what's wrong with America.

What was wrong in the last election was your attitude, which was fully demolished in #46.

#59 | Posted by Corky at 2018-04-24 09:28 AM | Reply

Geesh, hasn't this been covered enough? Haven't we established that Laura didn't vote in a swing state, so it's perfectly reasonable for her to protest vote? I think we'd all agree that it would be stupid to vote 3rd party in a swing state when one main candidate was demonstratably worse than the other, unless you really think the difference is negligible and it's better to play the long game. In this case, Laura has her position, and I'm pretty sure that won't change even if trump launches wwiii. I think Trump is so unappealing and dangerous that I can't imagine not voting effectively against him if I could. And I know I'm right (as per the topic of this thread ;-)

#60 | Posted by Snowfake at 2018-04-24 09:59 AM | Reply

You're right, snowfake. Maybe we can put the argument to rest. Laura, if you were in a battleground state, would that have changed your vote?

#61 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2018-04-24 10:02 AM | Reply

@#46 | Posted by Corky at 2018-04-23 07:52 PM
Do immigrants deserve to face the prospects of permanent family separation and deportation?
Legal immigrants? No. Unlawful immigrants should face the prospect of deportation, yes.

Do women deserve to be "punished" when they seek out reproductive health services?
No

Do young people deserve to see their future continuously mortgaged by an every-increasing burden of debt?
No

However, with Trump or Clinton as President those answers remain the same, and the underlying concern remains the same. Clinton would not reverse our deficit to a surplus, she would not stop deportations of unlawful immigrants, and she would make no changes, as Trump hasn't, that would address anyone being 'punished' seeking reproductive health services. If those were your reasons for choosing Clinton or Trump over a better candidate, then you have mislead yourself.

#62 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-04-24 10:09 AM | Reply

"Clinton would not reverse our deficit to a surplus"

The last one did.

#63 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-04-24 10:22 AM | Reply

You're right, snowfake. Maybe we can put the argument to rest. Laura, if you were in a battleground state, would that have changed your vote?

#61 | POSTED BY HAGBARD_CELINE AT 2018-04-24 10:02 AM | FLAG:

No Sir. There was NO WAY I was EVER going to vote for Hillary. It mattered not the state or anywhere at all. I would have still voted for Jill Stein.

#64 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-04-24 10:22 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"No Sir. There was NO WAY I was EVER going to vote for Hillary."

Then yes, attitudes like yours contributed to Trump's victory, swing state or not.

#65 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-04-24 10:35 AM | Reply

Then yes, attitudes like yours contributed to Trump's victory, swing state or not.

#65 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2018-04-24 10:35 AM | FLAG:

No Sir. It was the horrific candidate that was Hillary Clinton is the reason for Trumps Victory. Provide a better candidate if you want my vote.

#66 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-04-24 10:39 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"It was the horrific candidate that was Hillary Clinton is the reason for Trumps Victory."

As well as people pretending others had a chance. There is no escaping that fact.

#67 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-04-24 10:44 AM | Reply

As well as people pretending others had a chance. There is no escaping that fact.

POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2018-04-24 10:44 AM | REPLY

When I travel around to these small Kansas towns visiting History Museums I drive bey places like McDonalds Burger King and the like. I NEVER stop to eat at their restaurants because the food is so crappy. I always look for a small mom and pop cafe or diner. The place may not look very new or shinny. Their floors have seen better days. There's matchbooks holding one leg to steady it and a duct tape patch job on a booth. I go in have a good wholesome meal and then walk out happy. Something I couldn't get out of a national brand.

#68 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-04-24 10:55 AM | Reply

While true I may not be a part of the national brands success or failure. I am completely happy with my choice.

#69 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-04-24 10:58 AM | Reply

"Something I couldn't get out of a national brand." #68 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

"Sorry, Laura. You're gonna have to choke down those crap burgers, and like it. Mom and Pop's are being replaced by robots, and you're gonna have to suck it up, buttercup. Get wit da program. Hold your nose and vote.

Because although it's crap, it's less evil than diarrhea. And you know, you kinda get used to eating crap burgers.

Sure, they don't care about you, and they spread crap around the planet, but you don't want diarrhea, do you?

Well, DO you, Punk??"

- Love, DNC/DCCC

#70 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2018-04-24 11:04 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What was wrong in the last election was your attitude, which was fully demolished in #46.

#59 | POSTED BY CORKY

Oh please please tell me what my attitude was during the election, then please, "demolish" it.

You exemplify the topic of this thread.

#71 | Posted by jpw at 2018-04-24 11:12 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Then yes, attitudes like yours contributed to Trump's victory, swing state or not."

Remember, Hillary got the votes....just not the EC.

I say that because you are Including Lauras protest vote in Kansas as to why Hillary lost.

If Laura is in Ohio and didn't vote or went third party...then fine.

But his attitude is why Hillary lost?

If you want people to get the big picture Of national elections then get that Laura's attitude is irrelevant. Her vote in a swing state is.

#72 | Posted by eberly at 2018-04-24 11:21 AM | Reply

" you are Including Lauras protest vote "

I am including all the Lauras of the US, not just ours.

"But his attitude is why Hillary lost?"

Writ large? Yes, in part.

#73 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-04-24 11:30 AM | Reply

WHY AM I CALLED HIS????? I may have a stinky winky still I assure you I am NO MALE. geeesh.

#74 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-04-24 11:34 AM | Reply

There are 2 types of people. Neither is better. Neither is worse.

People who honestly and morally believe they should not have to vote for the lesser of two evils when they consider both options to be unacceptable.

People who honestly and morally believe if there are only two options it is necessary to vote for the lesser of the two evils no matter how unacceptable they both may be.

#75 | Posted by moder8 at 2018-04-24 12:13 PM | Reply

73

that's just too damn bad.

none of us created the 2 party system, the primary nomination process, nor the electoral college.

all we have is what we think of our candidates. You can't make people like a candidate they think sucks ass. you can explain the "voting for the lesser of 2 evils" concept but remember, that's calling both candidates "evil".

sorry Laura....

#76 | Posted by eberly at 2018-04-24 12:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Because although it's crap, it's less evil than diarrhea"

A good analogy to what's going on right now is vomiting and diarrhea. The current state of our system made this condition inevitable, and no amount of shaming people for not "holding it in" was going to prevent it, no how much some people naively hoped in vain it would.

#77 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-04-24 01:16 PM | Reply

"History proves that Clinton had no more of a path to victory than Stein did."

Uh, no. History shows Clinton's path got a lot closer to victory that Jill Stein's path.

#78 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-24 01:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

History shows Clinton's path got a lot closer to victory that Jill Stein's path. - #78 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-24 01:28 PM

'got a lot closer' means that both of their paths failed to reach victory. Neither having a path to victory means that Clinton had no more of a path than Stein.

#79 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-04-24 02:27 PM | Reply

"that Clinton had no more of a path than Stein".
That's just silly. Sure history is fixed now, but the margins were razor thin and the result could have been affected by a Saturday night live skit, an fbi letter, or even the weather.

Re the endless analysis of Laura's vote - Laura, do you mind answering if, when you voted, you saw a Clinton victory as just as bad or worse than a trump victory; and if you have the same opinion now.

#80 | Posted by Snowfake at 2018-04-24 02:42 PM | Reply

"Neither having a path to victory means that Clinton had no more of a path than Stein."

Now you're just being thick. Which is what you do, so no surprises there.

Clinton got a lot closer to winning than Stein, only a few EVs shy. The opposite is not true.

Clinton might have won if Stein wasn't in the race. The opposite is not true.

#81 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-24 02:43 PM | Reply

- Clinton might have won if Stein wasn't in the race.

Or more likely, they weren't going to vote for her anyways.

Ether way, HRC lost. The next "HRC" that the DNC puts forward will also lose.

There's a certain demographic that is done supporting these centrists who are BSing the left.

#82 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2018-04-24 02:47 PM | Reply

"There's a certain demographic that is done supporting these centrists who are BSing the left."

Them they must prefer Trump to a centrist.
That puts them on the right.

#83 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-24 02:50 PM | Reply

"If you're not with us, you're with the Enemy." - Snoofy W. Bush

#84 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-04-24 02:52 PM | Reply

Re the endless analysis of Laura's vote - Laura, do you mind answering if, when you voted, you saw a Clinton victory as just as bad or worse than a trump victory; and if you have the same opinion now.

#80 | POSTED BY SNOWFAKE

She had a choice. She made it.

Any bad things that happen because Trump was elected rather than Hillary is partly her fault.

It's like people who choose holistic medicine over chemo when they get cancer. Chemo sucks, but holistic medicine is useless. I can't feel bad for you dying due to refusing an option you didn't like it.

Life sucks. We all have to make choices and do things we don't want to. That includes voting for the lesser of two evils in an election to stop the greater of two evils. Welcome to being an adult.

#85 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-24 02:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

We are seriously still having this conversation?

Hillary lost, get over it. Start volunteering to get local candidates elected.

#86 | Posted by leftcoastlawyer at 2018-04-24 02:56 PM | Reply

#84 "If you prefer Trump over a centrist woman, you just might be a redneck."
--Snoof Foxworthy

#87 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-24 03:02 PM | Reply

Re the endless analysis of Laura's vote - Laura, do you mind answering if, when you voted, you saw a Clinton victory as just as bad or worse than a trump victory; and if you have the same opinion now.

POSTED BY SNOWFAKE AT 2018-04-24 02:42 PM | REPLY

Why add more fuel to their fire. They blame me for their horrible candidate. It's the same song and dance. They never blame Hillary they blame people like me who seen right through her BS. As far as your question. We were offered two horrible candidates. Either learn from it or continue the slide downwards.

#88 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-04-24 03:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Re the endless analysis of Laura's vote - Laura, do you mind answering if, when you voted, you saw a Clinton victory as just as bad or worse than a trump victory; and if you have the same opinion now.
POSTED BY SNOWFAKE AT 2018-04-24 02:42 PM | REPLY
Why add more fuel to their fire. They blame me for their horrible candidate. It's the same song and dance. They never blame Hillary they blame people like me who seen right through her BS. As far as your question. We were offered two horrible candidates. Either learn from it or continue the slide downwards.

#88 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

That's your problem right there. You call Hillary their horrible candidate. You lump everyone together who voted for her like she was their choice of candidate.

Grow up. I didn't choose Hillary. I supported Bernie and Kasich. Most of the damn country didn't choose Hillary. It was a small number of Dems who got Hillary nominated. But for the rest of us, we voted for her because the alternative was even worse. We acted like adults.

You can throw as many temper tantrums as you want about how bad a candidate Hillary was. It doesn't change the fact that when the time came to stop an evil greater evil, you ducked. You are as responsible for Trump as the Republicans. Deal with it.

#89 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-24 03:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#71 | POSTED BY JPW

Should I call you Laura now? You retorted a retort to something she said which I quoted.

#90 | Posted by Corky at 2018-04-24 03:31 PM | Reply

Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnn more of the same Sycophant. How sad.

#91 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-04-24 03:32 PM | Reply

"your problem ... Grow up ... throw as many temper tantrums as you want ... You are as responsible ... blah blah blah"

You people are beyond stupid. You're hopeless.

#92 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-04-24 03:47 PM | Reply

"your problem ... Grow up ... throw as many temper tantrums as you want ... You are as responsible ... blah blah blah"
You people are beyond stupid. You're hopeless.

#92 | POSTED BY SENTINEL

You support Trump...

If you want to tell me how I'm wrong, go for it.

#93 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-24 04:03 PM | Reply

Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnn more of the same Sycophant. How sad.

#91 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

You can justify it to yourself however you would like. It still doesn't change the facts.

Everyone who is hurt by Trump has every right to partially blame you.

#94 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-24 04:05 PM | Reply

#93,94 Morons like you helped Trump get elected and are projecting your guilt on to others. Those who decided years ago that they weren't going to vote for another Bush or another Clinton and stood by it had absolutely zero effect on the outcome of the election.

#95 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-04-24 05:22 PM | Reply

You can throw as many temper tantrums as you want about how bad a candidate Hillary was. It doesn't change the fact that when the time came to stop an evil greater evil, you ducked. You are as responsible for Trump as the Republicans. Deal with it.

#89 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT AT 2018-04-24 03:27 PM | FLAG:

WOW I NEVER called you anything remotely childish like this. How sad.

#96 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-04-24 05:23 PM | Reply

MSNBC Ordered Ed Schultz Not To Cover Bernie Sanders, Then Fired Him

Gee, it would seem that agents of ignorance are positioned at the highest levels of power. This Phil Griffin character is the kind of gatekeeper that needs to be removed. I wondered what had really happened to Ed right when we needed his voice the most. Now we know.

#97 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2018-04-24 06:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"we" as in everyone. Sanders was always systematically removed from the dialogue by these media outlets. They all function on behalf of something that wanted to position Trump above Sanders. That is an obviously dire cause for concern.

#98 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2018-04-24 06:07 PM | Reply

Everyone who is hurt by Trump has every right to partially blame you.
#94 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

LOL. What a diaper load.

#99 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2018-04-24 06:09 PM | Reply

- Sanders was always systematically removed from the dialogue by these media outlets.

That's for certain. No sooner than Bernie would announce anything, CNN/MSNBC had a wall of talking heads shooting it down as impossible, and the answer was HRC.

#100 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2018-04-24 06:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#94 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT AT 2018-04-24 04:05 PM | FLAG: Nonsensical

#101 | Posted by Kaikane at 2018-04-24 06:13 PM | Reply

You can throw as many temper tantrums as you want about how bad a candidate Hillary was. It doesn't change the fact that when the time came to stop an evil greater evil, you ducked. You are as responsible for Trump as the Republicans. Deal with it.
#89 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT AT 2018-04-24 03:27 PM | FLAG:
WOW I NEVER called you anything remotely childish like this. How sad.
#96 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

Its childish to act like you are better than everyone who voted for her. You treat anyone who voted for her like they are the DNC and you throw us under the bus for it: their horrible candidate. 98% of us didn't choose her to be the DNC's candidate. And we didn't vote for her because we liked her. We voted for her for the good of the country.

Honestly, I don't care that you didn't like her. I don't care what you demand from the DNC. She is who we got stuck with. But you knew the damage Trump would do. You knew Clinton was substantially better for the country however many issues she had. And to live under Trump because people like you threw your vote away rather than voting for a candidate you didn't like very much should piss off the rest of us.

If a person is drowning and you don't throw them a life preserver, you don't get to claim its not your fault just because you didn't hold their head underwater. "I didn't vote for him" is not good enough. The rest of us held our noses and did what had to be done to protect our country. You didn't because you were too good for it. That's frankly childish.

You have an issue with Hillary as a candidate? Great. Get involved in the primaries like I intend to.

But on election day, you have one duty: To do whats in the best interests of your country. And frankly, you didn't do that. And the RNC thanks you greatly.

#102 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-24 06:35 PM | Reply

You can have your collective misery.It's clear you are lashing out and I'm your target. Toodle loo. Have fun.

#103 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-04-24 06:37 PM | Reply

There's no doubt that HDS is real. The thing is, it's something that Hillary voters had/have when they think the best way to get others to support her is to shame others and tell them it's their moral duty.

"If you don't vote for candidate X, your an eediot, durrrrrrrrrrrr...." has been thoroughly proven to be a failure as a campaign slogan. Yet people just can't stop themselves.

#104 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-04-24 06:55 PM | Reply

IMHO Laura at #20 and Mod8 at #31 had the best posts on the thread.

Trump was the Dems' dream candidate yet Hillary still lost. Produce better candidates.

#105 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-04-24 07:13 PM | Reply

You can have your collective misery.It's clear you are lashing out and I'm your target. Toodle loo. Have fun.
#103 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-04-24 06:37 PM

I believe the point is to get you to admit that your non-vote for Hillary enabled Trump. Totally forgetting that Hillary would never change health care system for the better, elevate the minimum wage, employ any formal control over monetary abuse of our government, oh and marijuana would never be re-sheduled to a proper classification. The warring would be well-funded. Banking interests fully unimpeded. Poverty increasing.

Trump has lied about all of his campaign promises, which is a good thing. It shows actual resolve to survive the presidency. Unfortunately he's in with Russian intelligence and laundering mob money for decades. Who knew? Cabridge Analytica helped 30 other republicans. Sinclair repeated messages of re-enforcement seem quite practiced. We also know that television executives were already positioning Donald Trump as a presidential candidate during the Apprentice program. It seems so easy to just buy out the local news outlets, as if by design.

National media appears to be directly controlled on some levels. The implies that the Trump presidency is become a joint Russian and United States intelligence operation.

The alleged DNC server hack was deliberately covered up for months when it obviously could have begun a serious dialogue.

She's so monied and protected I simply can't believe anything that explosive wasn't used to her advantage.

Isn't Wikijules a CIA asset? So facilitating the alleged Russian hack could begin to tie Donald to them. For whom do they work?

#106 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2018-04-24 07:13 PM | Reply

IMHO Laura at #20 and Mod8 at #31 had the best posts on the thread.
Trump was the Dems' dream candidate yet Hillary still lost. Produce better candidates.
#105 | Posted by JeffJ

"NEVER ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR ONE'S ACTIONS"

The Motto for the Party of Personal Responsibility

#107 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-04-24 07:19 PM | Reply

"Why add more fuel to their fire. "
Laura, honestly I was trying to find an understanding. Your vote seems to really worry a lot of people - I think it's because for the most part people respect your opinion.
If you really think trump was as good a choice as Clinton, or it was close enough not to be a big deal either way, then voting 3rd party in a swing state would be logically sound. Heck, if you thought trump was better, then voting for him was logically sound. If that's how you feel (and I seem to remember comments about him really being a liberal), then that takes us to a different, but more typical right-left argument.
But if you see both trump and Clinton as bad, but recognize that trump is significantly worse, then voting 3rd party in a swing state simply doesn't make numerical sense; you aren't doing what you can to get what you most want. If you know that, but still don't vote for Clinton because of some emotional hang up, then that's strange and incongruous.
It's all fine to blame the Democratic Party for running Clinton, but when it came to voting day, in an effective two party system one has to make a call.
I think we could put this to rest if you came out and clearly said you didn't care if Clinton or trump won, ie all the crap that trump has done and will do is equally bad as the (different) crap that Clinton would have done - you'd probably be challenged for that, but we could at least let this 3rd party voting logic issue pass.

#108 | Posted by Snowfake at 2018-04-24 07:29 PM | Reply

Snowflake,

I'm a registered Republican. Up until ‘16 this is how I voted in presidential elections: Dole - Bush - Bush - McCain - Romney. I was so disgusted with Trump that in ‘16 I decided I didn't want to be a Johnson so I voted Gary Johnson. Given that I always voted for Carl Levin for Senate it is 100% on your party for putting forth such a horrible nominee. I would have voted Webb in a heartbeat.

#109 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-04-24 07:46 PM | Reply

- but when it came to voting day, in an effective two party system one has to make a call.
#108 | POSTED BY SNOWFAKE

What a BS scarecrow argument. As long as the Sheeple continue to fall for it, that's the only choice they'll ever be given.

But let's be clear, the MEDIA sabotaged Bernie, and wanted Clinton to run against Trump , so that the Coronation would be a slam dunk.

They were shocked to learn that American's didn't swallow the bait. Clinton's underhanded campaign sealed this country's fate under Trump.

Eat your pie.

#110 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2018-04-24 07:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"What a BS scarecrow argument. As long as the Sheeple continue to fall for it, that's the only choice they'll ever be given."

I cannot personally control who gets nominated. I can control who I vote for.

At least I didn't fall for Trump. Like you did. And the thing is, it may very well be the last choice I will be given in the matter.

#111 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-04-24 10:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

But on election day, you have one duty: To do whats in the best interests of your country. - #102 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-24 06:35 PM
That's to vote for her best candidate, which she did.

#112 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-04-25 06:43 AM | Reply

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