Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, April 12, 2018

"Richard Spencer, the white supremacist and movement figurehead who coined the term " alt-right," discussed his atheism last year in an interview with atheist blogger David McAfee. When he posted the interview on his own website, Spencer retitled it "The Alt Right and Secular Humanism," leaving no doubt that he sees atheism and humanism as linked to his cause." And Spencer isn't alone he is the norm in his sick subculture.

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Interesting Vice article from an atheist calling other atheists out for their silence about Neo-Nazi neo-atheists like Spencer.

#1 | Posted by Corky at 2018-04-11 07:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

i know from my friends who are "ex muslims" get a lot of followers from alt right sympathetic folks. Most try to avoid them or ignore them, but a few of the ex muslims i know through them are straight up alt right themselves.

and they are straight edgelords or scumbags like asra nomani.

#2 | Posted by klifferd at 2018-04-11 07:38 PM | Reply

#2 Is it like a gay person who goes into religion as a self-hating thing?

#3 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2018-04-11 07:42 PM | Reply

To the larger point that Corky made, I completely agree. We can't rely on outside forces to hold us accountable. We must hold ourselves and our colleagues accountable.

#4 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2018-04-11 07:43 PM | Reply

I doubt a lot of peope know Spencer et al are atheists. They mix a lot with rwing faux "Christians" from the KKK, and I doubt it comes up much. Of course, the hapless Muslims get screwed by both alt right atheists and traditional rwingers.

#5 | Posted by Corky at 2018-04-11 08:07 PM | Reply

Dawkins disciples are narcissists that worship self.

They're always the smartest authoritarians in the room.

#6 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2018-04-11 09:00 PM | Reply

"The Alt-Right" seems more like an Ayn Rand Superman movement than anything explicitly religious.

They'll defend their atheist brothers by saying they support freedom of religion. It's a different story when it comes to believers in the G-d of Abraham, though. Muslims are a no-go zone, and Jews are shady. Best to be Christian, if you're going to have to be any religion. Then maybe they'll bring out the list of Nobel laureates of each faith. Just scientific facts and unbiased information, like Sitzkrieg might offer up.

#7 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-11 09:10 PM | Reply


I've thought of them more as anarchists than atheists. Though I don't necessarily see the two as mutually exclusive.

#8 | Posted by LampLighter at 2018-04-11 09:27 PM | Reply

Ayn Rand despised Jesus, Shakespeare, Beethoven, Karl Marx and facial hair

Yes the Alt Right has many many atheist among them

#9 | Posted by PunchyPossum at 2018-04-12 02:06 AM | Reply

it's simple. man created god. then the christians turned it into a franchise! if they lost a few key wars that they won we would all be juish or muslim or ???

#10 | Posted by AuntieSocial at 2018-04-12 09:29 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

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I'm going to go with no.

A lot of them are atheists, but I doubt it's being driven by their atheism.

#11 | Posted by jpw at 2018-04-12 12:45 PM | Reply

@JPW

"James Croft -- a humanist community organizer who has also been deeply engaged in movement and online atheism for many years as a speaker and blogger -- he emphasized that Spencer's atheism is a central component of his worldview."

#12 | Posted by Tor at 2018-04-12 01:25 PM | Reply

Opinion: Don't Let the Alt-Right Hijack the Atheist Movement

Actually we should let them be as atheist as they want. It will split the breitbart bible thumper morons away from the breitbart nazi morons.

#13 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-04-12 06:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

This article is full of crap.

"But what has gone less noticed is that, unlike far-right American movements of years past, you don't hear much talk of God or religion at today's alt-right rallies. "

Um the breitbart comment section is basically an alt right rally. And there is a nonstop stream of christian bible thumper idiocy on there.

#14 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-04-12 07:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Um the breitbart comment section is basically an alt right rally. And there is a nonstop stream of christian bible thumper idiocy on there.

#14 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

I find it humorous that you frequent the Breitbart comment section.

Why do you do it?

Is it for entertainment?

#15 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-04-12 07:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I find it humorous that you frequent the Breitbart comment section.
Why do you do it?
Is it for entertainment?

POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-04-12 07:17 PM | REPLY

Know thy what the opposition is thinking makes you a more knowledgeable person and one who hath the power to counter act their BS.

#16 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-04-12 07:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

I get that, Laura. It's one of the primary reasons I come to this site. But if you truly want to know what conservatives are thinking NRO is a far better choice than the comments section at Breitbart. Until he answers my money is on the entertainment factor.

#17 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-04-12 07:37 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I find it humorous that you frequent the Breitbart comment section.

Why do you do it?

Is it for entertainment?

#15 | Posted by JeffJ

Partially for entertainment. Partially so I know the propaganda stories the trump team is spreading. Its fun to compare that to the real news stories of the day and watch how they create their own alternate reality. It really explains how someone could think that there is nothing to russiagate and hillary needs to be prosecuted for something immediately and mexicans are the cause of all our financial struggles.

Know your enemy.

It's depressing though. You see how far gone these lunatics are and realize there is no way they'll ever come back to reality. I think they'd rather go down in a blaze of bullets first. Many of them openly advocate it.

Our country is in deep trouble because of these morons. Even after trump is gone, they will remain.

#18 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-04-12 07:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"But if you truly want to know what conservatives are thinking NRO is a far better choice than the comments section at Breitbart."

It's almost as if you believe Breitbart news consumers don't vote. Their opinions are of equal concern as those who read NRO. Perhaps even more so than NRO conservatives because Breitbart's reach is greater.

#19 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2018-04-12 07:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

NRO conservatives are corporate globalist/free traders/open borders/neo-con GOP establishment. Maybe Paul Ryan can get a gig there.

#20 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-04-12 07:55 PM | Reply

I get that, Laura. It's one of the primary reasons I come to this site. But if you truly want to know what conservatives are thinking NRO is a far better choice than the comments section at Breitbart. Until he answers my money is on the entertainment factor.

POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-04-12 07:37 PM | REPLY

Why NRO They are the saner of the insane. Why worry about the ones who MIGHT cause trouble rather than the ones who are actively doing so??? A partially insane person doesn't need the funny farm like a full blown nutbar.

#21 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-04-12 07:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Maybe Paul Ryan can get a gig there."

They can't afford Paul Ryan.

#22 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2018-04-12 08:05 PM | Reply

NRO conservatives are corporate globalist/free traders/open borders/neo-con GOP establishment. Maybe Paul Ryan can get a gig there.

#20 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

It depends on the writer. Their writers are not monolithic in thought.

Partially for entertainment. Partially so I know the propaganda stories the trump team is spreading...

#18 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

A little of both. So Laura and I were both correct.

It's almost as if you believe Breitbart news consumers don't vote. Their opinions are of equal concern as those who read NRO. Perhaps even more so than NRO conservatives because Breitbart's reach is greater.

#19 | POSTED BY HAGBARD_CELINE

I guess I didn't articulate my point very well. If you truly want to understand what conservatives are thinking, the writers at NRO are far more intelligent, far less wacky and far more articulate than a vast majority of those who post comments at Breitbart.

#23 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-04-12 08:05 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"If you truly want to understand what conservatives are thinking, the writers at NRO are far more intelligent, far less wacky and far more articulate than a vast majority of those who post comments at Breitbart."

I know you'd like to believe that but Conservative thought isn't a monolith. Breitbart readers whom you deride here, are the mule that more high brow NRO conservatives ride to electoral victory. You can't have one without the other. And since Breitbart's readership is many times greater than NRO one could argue that they are vastly more important.

#24 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2018-04-12 08:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Thread gets the funny flag.

#25 | Posted by Angrydad at 2018-04-12 08:21 PM | Reply

It's already to late.

Atheist surely heard Dawkins, Maher, Harris etc's sneering attitude towards women which is nearly identical to the alt right and they did nothing.

#26 | Posted by Tor at 2018-04-12 09:32 PM | Reply

Atheist surely heard Dawkins, Maher, Harris etc's sneering attitude towards women

#26 | Posted by Tor

Examples?

#27 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-04-12 09:36 PM | Reply

#26 | Posted by Tor at 2018-04-12 09:32 PM | Reply | Flag: Stupid and confused

#28 | Posted by Angrydad at 2018-04-12 10:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"But if you truly want to know what conservatives are thinking NRO is a far better choice than the comments section at Breitbart."

I disagree with this.
The Breitbart comment section is reflective of actual conservative values and opinions.
The NRO is a bastion of well-crafted arguments conservatives use to con people like you.

#29 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-12 10:21 PM | Reply

The NRO is a bastion of well-crafted arguments conservatives use to con people like you.

#29 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Here is Mr. Rogers new word for today: Humility

You are way too unemployed and fundamentally dishonest to be employing that kind of ad hominem.

#30 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-04-12 10:30 PM | Reply

"Here is Mr. Rogers new word for today: Humility"

Go check the Breitbart comments section.
You'll find I'm pretty humble compared to your ilk.

#31 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-12 10:32 PM | Reply

Here is Mr. Rogers new word for today: Humility
You are way too unemployed and fundamentally dishonest to be employing that kind of ad hominem.

POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-04-12 10:30 PM | REPLY

Thanks You FINALLY made me cry. I so miss that man.

#32 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-04-12 10:37 PM | Reply

Go check the Breitbart comments section.
You'll find I'm pretty humble compared to your ilk.

#31 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

My ilk?

Go eff yourself.

Being the most fundamentally dishonest person on this site isn't enough for you? You want to be the biggest douche too?

#33 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-04-12 10:38 PM | Reply

"My ilk?"

Yes, your ilk.
What do you think differentiates you from them, your college degree perhaps?

#34 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-12 10:39 PM | Reply

Mr Rogers was awesome, Laura. Mr Robinson, played by Eddie Murphy, was awesome too.

#35 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-04-12 10:40 PM | Reply

Yes, your ilk.
What do you think differentiates you from them, your college degree perhaps?

#34 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

[stamp]
Please explain. Your claim is ridiculous. Stop repeating what you hear and educate yourself. What exactly was that supposed to prove? When your point is based entirely on an assumption, you didn't have a point to begin with. In order to make your point, you had to make something up completely. See the problem? Anything else that you would like to make up? The rest of your post was just mindless. I think you have only shown that you assume too much.
Do you ever actually understand what you are commenting on or does stupidity just take hold? Does anyone really understand what this person is babbling about?
[/stamp]

#36 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-04-12 10:40 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

So, you can't say what makes them not your ilk. Noted.

#37 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-12 10:43 PM | Reply

You gonna go all Goatman on me now?
That worked out well for him.

#38 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-12 10:43 PM | Reply

No, I'm going to continue to deliver the Ashton Stamp to you because that is what you deserve.

Quit being a dick and I'll quit giving you the Ashton Stamp.

I am done with your childish games.

#39 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-04-12 10:48 PM | Reply

You are childish games.

#40 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-12 11:04 PM | Reply

Examples?

Google elevatorgate.

#41 | Posted by Tor at 2018-04-13 12:33 AM | Reply

Another good article on the subject:
http://time.com/4915161/charlottesville-alt-right-alt-christianity/

So as traditional Christian institutions shrink, stagnate and struggle, Spencer and his white-supremacist allies, feeling supported by Donald Trump, are creating a violent alt-Christianity, as their counterparts in the Middle East have created an alt-Islam. They are supplying their followers with alt-liturgies, alt-mysticism, and alt-magic and are willing to smash, burn, destroy and kill for it, as they idolize their vision of "America" as a white "ethno-state," an absolutized, divinized race and nation.

These scumbags are to atheism what suicide bombers are to islam, what the KKK is to christianity, a self-satisfying perversion. If all the other atheists are to be held responsible to 'do something' about every gropey old man or alt-right bigot will the religious hold themselves to this standard?
WARNING: link to alt-right.com
The majority of the people I know in the Alt-Right are Christian to a degree. One of my closest friends who is in the movement is planning on becoming a Catholic priest.

There will be more atheists among the right. More among the left. More in prison. More in government. More in boardrooms. More creeping on women at conferences. Its a trend, like religious birth canals, it only goes on one direction.
Organized religion wont survive the Information Age.
The absolute monopoly religion has held on political violence for 2000 years is over.

#42 | Posted by BluSky at 2018-04-13 05:29 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

For those who dont remember dawkins and women dont get along.

www.theatlantic.com

#43 | Posted by Tor at 2018-04-13 02:00 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Science and education make organized religion more and more ridiculous on its face. At least 60% of Americans DO NOT attend church regularly. But, like many third world countries, it can be dangerous to espouse atheism and most of our politicians all hold strong religious affiliations. Even Trump and Melania attend church now. In the USA, a religious leader, such as MLK, enjoys some institutional cover to promote the general welfare.

As education improves so does belief in atheism. It should surprise no one that this includes the alt-right.

#44 | Posted by bayviking at 2018-04-13 02:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Only thing getting more ridiculous by the day is those stupid atheists who seem themselves as better than all theists but can't even confront that their own movement is driven by bigotry against women and minorities couples with a desperate need to be the center of attention and a host of personality disorders.

#45 | Posted by Tor at 2018-04-13 05:14 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I didn't even know there was an "atheist movement"?

First it was a religion and now it is a movement?

This is why we liberals can't have nice things.

Conservatives have to ruin everything.

#46 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-04-13 05:25 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Athiest Movement"

Hahaha this crap is why normal people consider atheist nutcases just as bad as religious nutcases.

#47 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2018-04-13 05:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I didn't even know there was an "atheist movement"?

Ditto.

It ranks up there with the War on Christmas if you ask me.

#48 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-13 05:26 PM | Reply | Funny: 3 | Newsworthy 1

You can quibble over semantics all you want.

The alt right is still an atheist movement and rather than fight it your going to deny it.

#49 | Posted by Tor at 2018-04-13 05:32 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

ust scientific facts and unbiased information, like Sitzkrieg might offer up.

#7 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2018-04-11 09:10 PM | FLAG:

Free rent in the wheto's head.

Want an opinion? I'm an atheist. I don't go to meetings. I'm not in any social media groups. Organizing around non-belief is for people who need attention and don't have enough free time.

#50 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-04-13 06:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"The alt right is still an atheist movement and rather than fight it your going to deny it."

The alt right is a white nationalist movement that is happy to get support from anyone, atheists and theists alike.

#51 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-13 06:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The alt right is still an atheist movement and rather than fight it your going to deny it.

#49 | Posted by Tor

That's where you are wrong. I am not denying anything. And I am not fighting "movement"

I will however stand up to individuals such as Richard Spencer.

They want to debate then we should debate. They want to march we march. They want to carry guns, we send in their worst fear... Antifa.

#52 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-04-13 06:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I see some people don't want to read the article must be to painful.

#53 | Posted by Tor at 2018-04-13 08:02 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

It's kind of painful that you keep insisting there's an "atheist movement."

They should form a coalition with the "There is no tooth fairy" movement.

And join ranks behind the "There ain't no Santy Clause, neither!" movement.

But for really big numbers, they need to tap into the "There is no Global Warming" movement. That's the motherlode right there, and well-heeled to boot.

#54 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-13 08:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"It's kind of painful that you keep insisting there's an "atheist movement.""

There clearly is.

www.patheos.com

FTA: "Stedman's criticism, however, was not of atheists as individuals, or even atheists as a group, but rather of the movement which has sprung up around atheism in America. The atheist movement is distinct from "atheists in general": it is represented by organizations, it holds conferences, it promotes books. It is very much, in its own way, like a religious movement, in that it is an organized set of activities which has developed its own culture, assumptions, and modes of behavior which exist to promote a religious position."

Now, if your point is tha this movement does not include all atheists or that atheism more generally is not monolithic, then your point is both true and trivial.

#55 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-04-13 08:58 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I was thinking of joining the Flat Earth society. Now that's a movement. They have their own rockets 🚀. We can ride one off the edge and finally see what's holding us up. I am leaning toward agreeing with the turtle caucus.

Seems everything has a "movement" these days.

Now excuse me while I go make one.

#56 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-04-13 09:09 PM | Reply

"It is represented by organizations, it holds conferences, it promotes books. It is very much, in its own way, like a religious movement, in that it is an organized set of activities which has developed its own culture, assumptions, and modes of behavior which exist to promote a religious position."

Sweet sassy molassey, it's not like a religious movement. It's like any movement that holds meetings and writes books, such as the early childhood education movement or the stop drunk driving movement or any movement including religious that promotes an agenda.

How is it that religious types can't talk about atheism without trying to paint it as a religion? This is a really weird stumbling block. It reminds me of people who say they don't see color when discussing race. Unless you're literally blind, you can see what color someone is.

#57 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-13 09:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Now, if your point is tha this movement does not include all atheists or that atheism more generally is not monolithic, then your point is both true and trivial."

Speaking of trivial, does this movement even warrant a name?
Recently I've been sympathetic to OWS and BLM and March for Children's Lives. Never heard of an atheist movement.

#58 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-13 09:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So. The movement in question calls itself "alt-right." Not atheist.

Was "atheist-right" taken?

Pretty sure there's not an "atheist movement" that isn't using atheism as a cover or a lure for some ulterior motive. This is a common tactic in brainwash groups. Start on the soft stuff and work up to the real agenda.

#59 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-13 09:29 PM | Reply

"Speaking of trivial, does this movement even warrant a name?
Recently I've been sympathetic to OWS and BLM and March for Children's Lives. Never heard of an atheist movement."

Sure you've heard of it. You are presumably ly aware of all the things mentioned in the article I linked. The lack of a name isn't relevant.

#60 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-04-13 09:34 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"How is it that religious types can't talk about atheism without trying to paint it as a religion?"

Who is doing that? The article I linked paints the movement as one that addresses a religious topic, not as a religion in the strict sense (whatever that would even mean).

#61 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-04-13 09:36 PM | Reply

"Pretty sure there's not an "atheist movement" that isn't using atheism as a cover or a lure for some ulterior motive."

There are atheist conferences, books, organizations, etc. Is your argument that they all have some sinister hidden motive?

#62 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-04-13 09:38 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Dirk has a point there isn't an atheist movement there are multiple atheist organizations some with overlapping goals.

apparently it's a taboo to ever say they move in similar directions.

#63 | Posted by Tor at 2018-04-13 09:41 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

The questions here are 1) is it fair for a movement to be held to account for impulses within it that can and do lead in dangerous directions and 2) if so, does such scrutiny need to be leveled at the atheist movement (not least by the movement's own members. These are, at minimum, fair and interesting questions and coming from a self professed member of the atheist movement, I personally find them reflective of a refreshing intellectual honesty. I am not sure, therefore, why this article is producing such a backlash on this forum.

#64 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-04-13 09:42 PM | Reply

From the article:

"Yet I don't know of any prominent atheist, humanist, or secular organizations that took the opportunity to condemn Spencer."

Guess he missed this: www.splcenter.org

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-13 09:50 PM | Reply

Guess he missed this: www.splcenter.org

#65 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2018-04-13 09:50 PM | FLAG:

The SPLC is a humanist or secularist organization? Citation needed.

#66 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-04-13 09:55 PM | Reply

Good point.

Name these "prominent" atheist, secular, humanist organizations, then.

I'm not sure why SPLC doesn't count, but since it doesn't, name names.

#67 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-13 10:06 PM | Reply

"Good point."

"Name these "prominent" atheist, secular, humanist organizations, then."

Hitchens and Dawkins, for starters. The Freedom from Religion Foundation, the American Humanist Association, Atheist Alliance International, the Secular Coalition for America... the list goes on. There are atheist dating sites, social clubs, student groups, countless webrings and sites.

"I'm not sure why SPLC doesn't count,"

You are the one who suggested it did, so that is very strange.

#68 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-04-13 10:15 PM | Reply

#68 Other than the blowhard Dawkins, I've never heard of any of those.

"Prominent" is not a word that describes atheism in general, at least not in America.

But why isn't SPLC secular and humanist?

#69 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-13 10:19 PM | Reply

Want some events?

Scepticon, American Atheist Convention, Countless Regional Comventions...

How about best selling books? Take your pick from the ones written by Dawkins, Hitchens

Music? Try this: en.m.wikipedia.org

#70 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-04-13 10:22 PM | Reply

So. Is nobody asking why the regular right isn't holding the alt-right accountable because everyone can see they're two heads of the same hydra?

#71 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-13 10:22 PM | Reply

"#68 Other than the blowhard Dawkins, I've never heard of any of those."

Argumentum ad ignorantiam.

"But why isn't SPLC secular and humanist?"

Onus probandi.

#72 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-04-13 10:26 PM | Reply

I'm not seeing how SPLC doesn't meet the definition of secular and humanist.

Feel free to define those words however you see fit, then tell me how they don't make the grade.

I assert they are secular and maybe even humanist too. Again, pick any definition.

Have fun.

#73 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-13 10:30 PM | Reply

#71

Why can't one ask both questions, especially since they are just variations on the same question?

#74 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-04-13 10:31 PM | Reply

"I assert they are secular and maybe even humanist too."

Good for you. If you want anyone to be at all convinced by your assertion, however, you will need to back it up with an actual argument.

#75 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-04-13 10:34 PM | Reply

Not variations on the same question.

One is why bikers don't condemn bikers who juggle.

Other is why jugglers don't condemn other jugglers.

#76 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-13 10:38 PM | Reply

"If you want anyone to be at all convinced by your assertion"

It doesn't seem like you're operating in good faith here.

Explain why SPLC isn't humanist, or secular, or accept that they are. I've given you carte blanche to define those words any way you like. What's the hold-up?

#77 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-13 10:40 PM | Reply

Meanwhile, I don't recognize any of the names on this list, which gets back to my suggestion that there are no "prominent" secularist organizations to do the condemning that is apparently lacking.

It's not from lack of condemnation, it's from the non-existenve of "prominent" secular, humanist organizations.

Surely you know what framing statements are. Surely you can see how the author has invoked one.

List: en.m.wikipedia.org

#78 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-13 10:45 PM | Reply

"It doesn't seem like you're operating in good faith here.
Explain why SPLC isn't humanist, or secular, or accept that they are."

Onus probandi. You are the one not being intellectually honest, as I've already observed.

#79 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-04-13 10:46 PM | Reply

"Meanwhile, I don't recognize any of the names on this list,"

Argumentum ad ignorantiam. Again.

#80 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-04-13 10:47 PM | Reply

A few more for you:

The Richard Dawkins Foundation, the Brights Movement, the Institute for Humanist Studies...

#81 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-04-13 10:50 PM | Reply

You have atheist summer camps (camp quest) and atheist clothing lines...

#82 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-04-13 10:53 PM | Reply

"Argumentum ad ignorantiam. Again."

So what "prominent" organizations did the author have in mind?

We're both ignorant of that.

Somehow, this albatross only encumbers my argument...

#83 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-13 11:12 PM | Reply

"You have atheist summer camps (camp quest) and atheist clothing lines..."

I surmise my ignorance of them is not at all suggestive of the fact that they are not "prominent."

They are front and center, I just haven't noticed!

I should really get out more to these atheist conventions; get on your level.

#84 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-13 11:19 PM | Reply

Maybe my question goes like this:

"Don't let the alt-right hijack the atheist movement."

Q: Why not?

#85 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-13 11:21 PM | Reply

"I surmise my ignorance of them is not at all suggestive of the fact that they are not "prominent.""

And I only had to point it out to you twice! What a clever thing you are!

#86 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-04-13 11:29 PM | Reply

"So what "prominent" organizations did the author have in mind?"

Quite immaterial. He need not have had any particular organization in mind for his point to be valid. And I have shown you all manner of organizations, indeed, a whole thriving atheist culture.

#87 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-04-13 11:31 PM | Reply

#85

Oh you could try reading the OP or perhaps the link I posted...

#88 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-04-13 11:32 PM | Reply

"Quite immaterial."

We've been talking about it for 20 posts.
SPLC and many, many other organizations condem these ------.
What's with the litmus test for these other specifically atheist agenda-oriented organizations, who are frankly pretty kooky themselves?
It's like saying, someone published an awful book, how come every Book Club isn't dedicating a night to say how awful it is.

I think you have a weird view of what not believing in G-d is. See that -? You can pencil in an o. It won't hurt me.
Nothing actually changes. Just the way you spelled a word. What could it matter?

To the extent that a young atheist might be led astray by a nationalist using atheism as bait, sure, that's a problem.

You'd think the religious community would warn children about it too, since we're in a country where about 85% of people aren't atheists. Guess that opens a whole can of worms that you must think is somebody else's problem.

It's a problem, for sure, but to try to pin the tail on the donkey of atheism is really far off the mark from the many other donkeys such as whiteness and maleness and as I called it up at the start of the thread an Ayn Rand Superman cult, which occupies the seats of power but greedily, the whites in power do not directly distribute it quite as much as some who were merely born white might have hoped, which leads to resentment but not against the power, against those that take it; the immigrant, the criminal. You might become a cop, heck you can even become a black cop. You could join the military, as many here have done, and tend to lean more white nationalist than those who did not. It is always turned towards the outsider, never introspectively.

Now, what is the atheist, but an introspective outsider in our society? Potential school shooter, even.

And, who made him that way?

I often hear atheism has the highest death toll in the 20th century. Well, that's some real power. Maybe they were on to something. What would really be wrong with wielding that power and using it to wipe your enemies from the pages of history? Isn't that what the Second Amendment is for?

#89 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-13 11:51 PM | Reply

I love the fact that Snoofy and Boydstruan are both independently thinking that the other is the most reviled poster on the DR.

Kismet.

#90 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-04-14 12:01 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

*crickets*

Sorry that the mirror killed your "conversation"

#91 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-04-14 12:35 AM | Reply

Alt-right people are the people who heard the same classroom lecture and discussion as you, but failed to understand any of it.

History, math, literature, composition; it doesn't matter.

Of course, if they picked up on about half of what they heard, they got the degree, same as you!

#92 | Posted by john47 at 2018-04-14 10:41 AM | Reply

#91 | Posted by Rightocenter

Your childish sense of self-importance is amusing.

#93 | Posted by Angrydad at 2018-04-14 11:47 AM | Reply

Your childish sense of self-importance is amusing.

Careful... he'll call you names.

#94 | Posted by REDIAL at 2018-04-14 11:49 AM | Reply

The entire premise of this thread is foolishness. Atheism is not a "movement." It can't be hijacked by the right. A non-belief is not an idea. There is nothing there to hijack. Atheism is not a religion. That's sort of the point of atheism.

#95 | Posted by danni at 2018-04-14 12:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If you truly want to understand what conservatives are thinking, the writers at NRO are far more intelligent, far less wacky and far more articulate than a vast majority of those who post comments at Breitbart.

#23 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

That's sort of like saying that double ply toilet paper is more intelligent than single ply. One has more substance, yet they both gather crap unto themselves.

#96 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2018-04-14 12:45 PM | Reply

The entire premise of this thread is foolishness. Atheism is not a "movement." It can't be hijacked by the right. A non-belief is not an idea. There is nothing there to hijack. Atheism is not a religion. That's sort of the point of atheism.

POSTED BY DANNI AT 2018-04-14 12:04 PM | REPLY

The ones who don't believe and want to force their nonbelief on everyone is a movement a big ole bowel movement. They are a religion onto their own. Not unlike other religions.

#97 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-04-14 01:43 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Actually we couldn't care less. Do like the holidays though

#98 | Posted by bruceaz at 2018-04-14 02:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"The ones who don't believe and want to force their nonbelief on everyone is a movement a big ole bowel movement."

No it isn't. It's actually just a bunch of idiots while there are millions of atheists who wouldn't even spend ten minutes with them. Personally, I think I am the only true belief is angonsticism because that is the faith that Mother Theresa believed in and I don't question her faith.

#99 | Posted by danni at 2018-04-14 02:17 PM | Reply

angonsticism because that is the faith that Mother Theresa believed in and I don't question her faith.

#99 | POSTED BY DANNI

Agnosticism is not a faith and does not require faith.

Other than the faith that the existence of God, of the divine or the supernatural is unknown or unknowable via current scientific or rational reasoning.

Seems agnosticism is kinda the opposite of having faith.

I mean it is sort of like hedging your bets until all the evidence is in isn't it?

#100 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-04-14 02:28 PM | Reply

#97 Who has tried to force non-belief on anyone in the USA?
Mostly I see people telling believers in santa claus that their faith doesn't give them the right to force belief on others or punish others for not adhering to their selection of rules.

#101 | Posted by bored at 2018-04-14 02:39 PM | Reply

Your childish sense of self-importance is amusing.

#93 | Posted by Angrydad

Oh c'mon it was kind of funny.

Relax a little.

#102 | Posted by jpw at 2018-04-14 02:57 PM | Reply

I mean it is sort of like hedging your bets until all the evidence is in isn't it?

#100 | Posted by donnerboy

Or it's simply acknowledging that one way or the other we simply don't and won't know.

#103 | Posted by jpw at 2018-04-14 02:58 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Agnosticism is the argument within yourself between the desire to believe and the recognition of what is going on around you thereby asking how could any loving God allow it.
That is what I believe. That is what Mother Theresa believed. I want to believe in God, I still do pray to God. I don't always believe that anyone hears those prayers, how could I? Look at the world.

#104 | Posted by danni at 2018-04-14 03:00 PM | Reply

"Oh c'mon it was kind of funny."

Hence, the use of the word "amusing".

But, yeah...I reckon I got a little too worked up.

#105 | Posted by Angrydad at 2018-04-14 03:02 PM | Reply

"Who has tried to force non-belief on anyone in the USA?"

War. On. Christmas.
Just keep telling yourself there is one, that makes it true for millions of your fellow Americans.

#106 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-14 05:29 PM | Reply

My real religious belief boils down to one simple sentence: "I don't know and you don't know either." Anyone who says differently is just a liar.

#107 | Posted by danni at 2018-04-14 05:32 PM | Reply

"The ones who don't believe and want to force their nonbelief on everyone is a movement a big ole bowel movement."

They're not nearly as dangerous as actual people in power who say that the First Amendment does not protect atheism.
People like George H. W. Bush:

Sherman: What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are Atheists?
Bush (Senr): I guess I'm pretty weak in the Atheist community. Faith in god is important to me.
Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are Atheists?
Bush (Senr): No, I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.
Sherman (somewhat taken aback): Do you support as a sound constitutional principle the separation of state and church?
Bush (Senr): Yes, I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on Atheists.

#108 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-14 05:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#107 we don't know if there's a teapot orbiting Pluto either, but our lack of a big enough telescope doesn't make it a more reasonable possibility,

#109 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-14 05:33 PM | Reply

Reasonable possibility is hardly the same thing as "knowing" there is a God. I can provide millions, actually billions, of reasons to doubt God's existence. Still I choose to try and believe in spite of the evidence that my belief is wasted effort.

#110 | Posted by danni at 2018-04-14 05:39 PM | Reply

- it a more reasonable possibility,

The universe formed ex nihilo wasn't a reasonable possibility until it was.

And Christian religion isn't about knowing, it's about possibilities, hope, faith, and most all love.

It's just gotten bad press because of the human frailties of traditionalists.

Kinda like atheism could get bad press being associated with Nazis like Spencer et al.

#111 | Posted by Corky at 2018-04-14 05:42 PM | Reply

"It's just gotten bad press because of the human frailties of traditionalists."

That's not the only reason.
Take Mother Theresa, saying it's noble for the poor to suffer.
That's not human frailty, that's a political system of oppression.

#112 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-14 05:50 PM | Reply

Her saying it was human frailty, as is a political system of oppression.... it's certainly not on a human achievements highlights film.

#113 | Posted by Corky at 2018-04-14 06:00 PM | Reply

"Her saying it was human frailty"

I don't see how. All she did was recite dogma.

#114 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-14 06:17 PM | Reply

- All she did was recite dogma.

The nobility of the suffering poor isn't even Christian, much less dogma. It's traditionalist hypocrisy.

#115 | Posted by Corky at 2018-04-14 06:24 PM | Reply

www.goodreads.com

#116 | Posted by Corky at 2018-04-14 06:33 PM | Reply

"The nobility of the suffering poor isn't even Christian, much less dogma. It's traditionalist hypocrisy."

Unfortunately, traditionalist hypocrisy and dogma are not mutually exclusive.

Do you believe people who reject Jesus will burn in hell for eternity? Just curious.

#117 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-14 07:13 PM | Reply

"The nobility of the suffering poor isn't even Christian, much less dogma. It's traditionalist hypocrisy."

Their nobility is in their willingness to suffer instead of to die. Lesser humans would give up and just die.

#118 | Posted by danni at 2018-04-14 07:22 PM | Reply

Or they would forget their values and just take that which others need to survive.

#119 | Posted by danni at 2018-04-14 07:25 PM | Reply

The anti-iraq war movement didnt agree on everything.

Per those who are being obtuse that means they werent a movement at all.

#120 | Posted by Tor at 2018-04-14 09:43 PM | Reply

Only thing getting more ridiculous by the day is those stupid atheists who seem themselves as better than all theists...

#45 | POSTED BY TOR AT 2018-04-13 05:14 PM |

If only you would have stopped there.

The smartest people I know are religious. I can't comprehend why. I don't judge them or mock them for it, because evereyone has their reasons.

#121 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-04-14 09:51 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

@101CHAIRBORNE

Sadly most atheist activists don't seem to be driven by some desire to help others but to make others miserable same as them.

#122 | Posted by Tor at 2018-04-14 10:21 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#122 isn't that true of religious activists too? Is there anything more miserable than carrying pictures of dead fetuses in front of an abortion clinic?

#123 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-14 10:41 PM | Reply

"#122 isn't that true of religious activists too? "

Jerks who carry those photos are human train wrecks.

Newspapers love to talk about them and ignore the local interfaith food bank employees.

#124 | Posted by Tor at 2018-04-14 10:52 PM | Reply

Because interfaith food bank employees aren't "activists."

#125 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-15 12:04 AM | Reply

Is there really any better way to prove the value of your ideology than by doing good in its name?

#126 | Posted by Tor at 2018-04-15 02:55 AM | Reply

- people who reject Jesus

Sounds like you have been listening to too many rwing TV evangelists. It's not like he's begging at the door.

It is true, however, that people who don't believe they can do or be something usually can't.

#127 | Posted by Corky at 2018-04-15 01:12 PM | Reply

Do you believe people who reject Jesus will burn in hell for eternity? Just curious.

#117 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

There is a difference between "rejecting" and "believing". In other words, while I might believe a human named Jesus existed and I like his teachings but I don't believe the all the supernatural myths and "miracles" and I don't think he or anyone has ever been "resurrected" or Life after Death or actual angels or demons the way Christians believe. ( why would Anyone deny a Prophet named Jesus existed as the odds are that he or someone very much like him did exist).

If Jesus showed up today I would not "deny" him or his teachings. I would be very impressed. But, I would have a lot of questions.

#128 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-04-15 01:42 PM | Reply

"Sounds like you have been listening to too many rwing TV evangelists. It's not like he's begging at the door."

You are both avoiding the question.

Is apostasy a mortal sin or not? Jesus says it is. What do Corky and Dirkstruan say?

#129 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-15 03:24 PM | Reply

"Is there really any better way to prove the value of your ideology than by doing good in its name?"

Anti-abortion goons think they are doing good in their ideology's name.
See Also: WTc, twice.

#130 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-15 03:26 PM | Reply

-You are both avoiding the question

You just didn't like the answers, both of which were quite apropos.

- mortal sin

Is Catholic mythology, and Jesus said no such thing.

#131 | Posted by Corky at 2018-04-15 03:52 PM | Reply

"Is Catholic mythology, and Jesus said no such thing."

Okay, then show me the Red Letters; pick your translation, doesn't matter to me.

#132 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-15 03:56 PM | Reply

Show you what he didn't say? C'mon, man.

People who don't believe they can do or be something usually can't. And what Dboy said, are both reasonable responses.

#133 | Posted by Corky at 2018-04-15 04:00 PM | Reply

"Show you what he didn't say? C'mon, man."

No, show me what he did say.
Sort of like this,
en.wikipedia.org

#134 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-15 04:02 PM | Reply

"This article relies too much on references to primary sources. Please improve this by adding secondary or tertiary sources."

Article is a mishmash of mostly traditionalist myths. And even at that, it defines apostasy as "falling away" from an established faith, not the initial rejection of unbelievers per your 117.

If I didn't know better, which I don't, I might think that you didn't know what apostasy meant any more than you knew what mortal sin meant. And I say that in the nicest way.

Neither of those terms mean what you seem to think they mean, Vizzini.

#135 | Posted by Corky at 2018-04-15 04:10 PM | Reply

Snoofy even anti-abortion activist will concede whether what they're doing good in the eyes of the public is a matter of debate.

spending some of your free time helping to feed the less fortunate is a matter of contention for No One.

#136 | Posted by Tor at 2018-04-15 04:27 PM | Reply

"Snoofy even anti-abortion activist will concede whether what they're doing good in the eyes of the public is a matter of debate."

Whatever.
In their eyes, it's unequivocally good to try and stop murder.

"Article is a mishmash of mostly traditionalist myths."

Yeah. So is The Bible.

#137 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-15 05:22 PM | Reply

#137 |

Defensive pettiness? No one could have predicted that.

#138 | Posted by Corky at 2018-04-15 05:59 PM | Reply

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