Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, April 11, 2018

President Donald Trump is making a big push to expand work requirements in the nation's social safety net, calling on his administration to propose tougher rules for America's most vulnerable population to benefit from welfare programs. Trump signed the Reducing Poverty in America by Promoting Opportunity and Economic Mobility executive order privately Tuesday, ordering secretaries across the government to review their welfare programs -- from food stamps to Medicaid to housing programs -- and propose new regulations, like work requirements. The executive order calls on federal agencies to enforce current work requirements, propose additional, stronger requirements, and find savings (in other words, make cuts), and to give states more flexibility to run welfare programs.

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"It's a false narrative," Ziliak told me last year of a conservative proposal to cut food stamps. "The evidence shows that the program actually works. Not all programs work. But SNAP actually is one of those that does what it is supposed to be doing."

As is, SNAP and TANF, which provide services like child care or income assistance, already have work requirements for able-bodied adults without dependents. Those requirements are often waived when the economy is doing poorly and reinstated when the job market is more stable, which is what Maine and Kansas did."

#1 | Posted by Corky at 2018-04-11 01:15 AM | Reply

Spoiled, fat, frat boy hates the poor.

#2 | Posted by danni at 2018-04-11 08:08 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 5

"Conservatives" don't actually hate regulations, they just hate those that hinder profit in the name of safety, environmental protection or worker well being.

However, regulations allowing them to extract more from the populace are great, even as were consistently near full employment it's still not enough.

#3 | Posted by jpw at 2018-04-11 08:48 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

That is a good move by Trump, have to put some pressure for people to go work instead of waiting for Welfare... But some people really need, but some needs some push.

#4 | Posted by material07310 at 2018-04-11 09:56 AM | Reply

Governor Walker signed a bill requiring food stamp recipients in Wisconsin to work 30 hours per week. Passing this law means that the maximum food stamp beedit in Wisconsin is now $38. The formula for food stamp benefits is $400 minus 40% of gross pay. A Person working 30 hours a week at minimum wage makes $906/month

Perversely The people who earn less and truly need this money are ineligible

#5 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-04-11 10:21 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"The evidence shows that the program actually works. Not all programs work. But SNAP actually is one of those that does what it is supposed to be doing."
#1 | POSTED BY CORKY

=================

I think we need a discussion about what these programs are supposed to be doing them. We have way, way, way too many people on food stamps. I agree that the program is working as intended if the intention is to provide an endless supply of free food. The problem is that the programs are rife with fraud. I know people that sold their food stamps and another poster on here admitting to buying some. The role of the government is not to provide an endless redistribution of money to poor people so stating programs as working as intended that do this, and only this, is disgusting to me as a taxpayer. Along with fixing the foodstamp program, Trump needs to do a full audit of the disability program with impartial judged and drastically reduce those rolls as well.

#6 | Posted by Rex_Buyt at 2018-04-11 10:32 AM | Reply

#4 | Posted by material07310

Uhhh seriously? You apparently don't understand how these things work already.

#7 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2018-04-11 10:47 AM | Reply

#6 | Posted by Rex_Buyt

"The problem is that the programs are rife with fraud." - I assume you have actual Evidence? I am not saying it didn't happen but personally I have never saw a poster on here admitting to "buying some". The way they work in this state is you get a debit card - they aren't actual "stamps". Kind of hard to sell your debit card and still have it.

I know several people on SNAP - Good RR Republicans all - they have their 2-3-4 kids. Can't afford daycare when all they can get are $10-12/hours jobs with no education beyond HS. So one parent works at that wage while the other takes care of babies. They certainly aren't selling their food or access to their card.

That said - certainly there are people that cheat the system - but how many? I hear about kids every day without food, without electricity, without water in their homes - in the USA. It isn't their fault their parents are not equipped to provide for them. Heck I just heard about a kid in 5th grade yesterday who has never been to the local mall - just 5 miles away.

#8 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2018-04-11 10:58 AM | Reply

When someone has been given much, much will be required in return; and when someone has been entrusted with much, even more will be required.
--Luke 12:48

#9 | Posted by catdog at 2018-04-11 10:59 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I assume you have actual Evidence?

#8 | POSTED BY GALAXIEPETE

=========================

Yep. And Snoofy or Corky or one of the other brain dead trust on here admitted to buying some off someone so they could buy alcohol or cigs (it was something stupid but I can't remember exactly). The worst thing you can do is give a 'debit' card and take away the social stigma from living off the taxpayer teat.

#10 | Posted by Rex_Buyt at 2018-04-11 11:05 AM | Reply

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8
I hear about free breakfast and lunch at public schools.
I've read about districts that were going to offer weekend food as well (don't know if it happened).

There are options available if people are willing to look and do the work. That so many choose not to is baffling.

#11 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-04-11 11:12 AM | Reply

I've read about districts that were going to offer weekend food as well (don't know if it happened).
#11 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

=====================

It is. And summer too. I think children should be taken away and put into foster care if you are unable to do the most basic job of a parent which is to feed your kid. Really, you don't deserve to be called a parent if you can't do that.

#12 | Posted by Rex_Buyt at 2018-04-11 11:16 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

The worst thing you can do is give a 'debit' card and take away the social stigma from living off the taxpayer teat.

#10 | POSTED BY REX_BUYT

Where is your outrage for the corporate "debit cards" and corporations living off the taxpayer teat?

When is Humpy going to sign an executive order to cut corporation welfare?

Why do conservatives always seek to punish the poorest among us who need the help and continue to allow corporations to waste massive amounts of taxpayer dollars?

#13 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-04-11 11:17 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Where is your outrage for the corporate "debit cards" and corporations living off the taxpayer teat?

#13 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

================

That is terrible too. I would like to see the 20% corporate tax actually enforced. No loop holes. No depreciation tables. I want GE, Amazon, etc to pay 20% in taxes in the year it was earned.

#14 | Posted by Rex_Buyt at 2018-04-11 11:25 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#10 | Posted by Rex_Buyt

You seriously think that takes away the "stigma"? Most of the people I know are embarrassed they need the help. You certainly know one of them when you see one too as they are instantly recognizable - no need to worry about your stigma. Besides based on what I can make of your theory people don't care anyhow.

#15 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2018-04-11 11:35 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I think children should be taken away and put into foster care if you are unable to do the most basic job of a parent which is to feed your kid."

We feed all kids breakfast and lunch year round where I live, regardless of ability to pay. Better to do that than to put kids in the foster system if what you're interested in is positive outcomes for the children. Of course if you're more interested in punishing the poor for being poor than you are in helping children then you might support different policies.

#16 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2018-04-11 11:38 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Some of these filthy poor people cheat the system for a few dollars, meanwhile Wells Fargo was caught, red handed, stealing from their customers to the tune of millions. So what does Trump do? Cuts foods stamps for the poor and weakens the Consumer Protection Agency.

#17 | Posted by danni at 2018-04-11 11:39 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It is. And summer too. I think children should be taken away and put into foster care if you are unable to do the most basic job of a parent which is to feed your kid. Really, you don't deserve to be called a parent if you can't do that.

#12 | Posted by Rex_Buyt

You probably also think "charities" should fund that too, right?

#18 | Posted by jpw at 2018-04-11 11:49 AM | Reply

Better to do that than to put kids in the foster system if what you're interested in is positive outcomes for the children.

===================

I would rather bump up funding for foster care. If you can't feed your kid, I doubt you are reading to them at night or making sure they have their homework done. Let's be realistic here.

===================

Of course if you're more interested in punishing the poor for being poor than you are in helping children then you might support different policies.

#16 | POSTED BY HAGBARD_CELINE

===================

Not punishing poor people, encouraging better decision making by removing the crutch for those that continually make bad decisions. Children are not helped by being raised by bad parents.

#19 | Posted by Rex_Buyt at 2018-04-11 11:50 AM | Reply

#19 | POSTED BY REX_BUYT

And what if you are an amazing parent, struggling with a young child diagnosed with a non communicative form of Autism and you are are a single parent? I personally know a mom that must be available at all times for her child which includes while he is at school, so she is not able to work. The disability she gets for him doesnt pay the bills. Dad is a deadbeat and she is getting about $60 per month for child support on their 2 kids. But her daughter without autism gets straight A's in school, plays school sports, etc. She does as much as she possibly can to fully support them. These people you are labeling lazy and poor are not who you think they are. These children would be worse off in the foster care system, and people like you are rooting for her failure.

#20 | Posted by justagirl_idaho at 2018-04-11 11:58 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Better to do that than to put kids in the foster system if what you're interested in is positive outcomes for the children.

===================

I would rather bump up funding for foster care. If you can't feed your kid, I doubt you are reading to them at night or making sure they have their homework done. Let's be realistic here.

I agree on both fronts.

Issue is that charity rarely has enough resources to cover it, which is true in most cases where government has stepped in to create social programs.

So while your statements sound good theoretically, they're unfeasible to nearly impossible.

Also, I wouldn't quite go that far. Some people work their asses off to provide for their kids but just can't make ends meet. It's not necessarily out of ill intent or neglect.

#21 | Posted by jpw at 2018-04-11 11:59 AM | Reply

#12 | Posted by Rex_Buyt

Wow that's pretty harsh and heartless. And who will be paying for them? And how much will they be paying for foster care? It isn't free after all. There is one young woman who's past I recently learned about. Had a single parent who worked but struggled with depression (and no healthcare) and with her and her 3 siblings. Rarely had water or power in the house. Food was always in question. Etc. Embarrassed as a child about their predicament. You wouldn't know she came from that based on her current situation - she has made herself a better life. I had no clue until she opened up about it. What she remembers fondly is the love though.

SOME school districts can and do offer these meals while many others - in particular the ones where many of these students are - can not. In many areas school districts can't even afford the basics or schooling. Especially the summer meals.

If you actually go and read the article you will also find that apparently many States are NOT handing out the funds to people but taking the funds regardless. So maybe there doesn't need to be reform in the programs as much as at the state level.

#22 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2018-04-11 12:03 PM | Reply

These people you are labeling lazy and poor are not who you think they are. These children would be worse off in the foster care system, and people like you are rooting for her failure.

#20 | POSTED BY JUSTAGIRL_IDAHO

======================

First, should not have had sex with a deadbeat dad. Let's be honest, we all know she knew what she was getting into. Second, the state should have the deadbeat dad working/paying child support or locked up. Third, you are acting like this scenario is the norm when it is the 1 in a 1000 case.

#23 | Posted by Rex_Buyt at 2018-04-11 12:05 PM | Reply

Rarely had water or power in the house. Food was always in question. Etc. Embarrassed as a child about their predicament. You wouldn't know she came from that based on her current situation - she has made herself a better life.
#22 | POSTED BY GALAXIEPETE

=================

She would have been better off in a well funded foster care system.

#24 | Posted by Rex_Buyt at 2018-04-11 12:07 PM | Reply

There are so many programs available that it may actually be too many. They should make the process simpler and more efficient.
The recipients have to buy in and do their part though. Register, show up to get their groceries, or be there when delivered.

There is so much fraud and waste on the user and distributor side that turning the process on its head may be worth a try.

#25 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-04-11 12:23 PM | Reply

The recipients have to buy in and do their part though. Register, show up to get their groceries, or be there when delivered.
There is so much fraud and waste on the user and distributor side that turning the process on its head may be worth a try.

#25 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

So you want them to get a job but also be available at your convenience to get their groceries. That makes perfect sense.

There is no question there is a lot of fraud and waste. That we can agree on. BUT the problem often is that combating fraud and waste is more expensive than the fraud or waste in the first place.

I worked for a Workers Compensation Defense Law Firm that represented Insurance Companies. We did quite a bit of lobbying. And this was the exact problem. While we liked the idea of combating fraud in the system, plans to do so were expensive that it often simply wasn't worth it.

#26 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-11 12:37 PM | Reply

So you want them to get a job but also be available at your convenience to get their groceries. That makes perfect sense.
-syco

Is that what you took away from my post? Are you really that stupid?

#27 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-04-11 12:47 PM | Reply

I think we need a discussion about what these programs are supposed to be doing them. We have way, way, way too many people on food stamps. I agree that the program is working as intended if the intention is to provide an endless supply of free food. The problem is that the programs are rife with fraud. I know people that sold their food stamps and another poster on here admitting to buying some. The role of the government is not to provide an endless redistribution of money to poor people so stating programs as working as intended that do this, and only this, is disgusting to me as a taxpayer. Along with fixing the foodstamp program, Trump needs to do a full audit of the disability program with impartial judged and drastically reduce those rolls as well.

#6 | POSTED BY REX_BUYT

Lets take this one bit at a time.

1. "We have way, way, way too many people on food stamps."
Yep. But its a matter of WHY though. 1/3 of SNAP households have someone employed but their job doesn't pay enough. This includes military families. About half had someone employed in the last year. 1/4 are senior citizens. Half are families with children. And there are requirements that people who can work and don't have kids actually work. So it's not that food stamp requirements are too lenient. It's that jobs simply don't pay enough in most cases where someone is working or the jobs are seasonal. But most of the time, it's not chronic unemployment for people who can't work.

2. "I agree that the program is working as intended if the intention is to provide an endless supply of free food."
Generally food stamps or SNAP only provide a portion of the family's food for the month. And generally its not endless. No one WANTS to be on food stamps. It's called a Safety Net for a reason. It's there for families who need it and all evidence suggests that's mainly who gets it.

3. "The problem is that the programs are rife with fraud."
Actually study after study has suggested the complete opposite. Yes, there is fraud. But the fraud is fairly minimal. And the cost of combating the fraud is often far more expensive than the fraud itself. More strict requirements also tend to kick families off who actually need it. The general position is we would rather ensure a family and their children who need the help get to eat than to let them go hungry because we are intent on wiping out all fraud committed by a few other bad people.

#28 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-11 12:57 PM | Reply

4. "I know people that sold their food stamps and another poster on here admitting to buying some."
That is an issue. There is actually a simple solution though. The SNAP program. It requires the person to present the certificate at the grocery store for only the items allowed and it can't be done by someone else.

5. "The role of the government is not to provide an endless redistribution of money to poor people so stating programs as working as intended that do this, and only this, is disgusting to me as a taxpayer."
The Food Stamp, SNAP and other programs don't endlessly redistribute money to poor people. They provide a safety net for when families need it. People fall on hard times or have issues finding work often due to physical or mental health issues. This program is there to make sure they aren't living under bridges and starving. Its such a small portion of the overall wealth in our economy that to call it wealth redistribution is plain idiotic. Moreover, it also significantly helps to reduce crime rates by ensuring people have at least the basics. The only reason its disgusting to you as a taxpayer is because you have never bothered to look at how much of your paycheck goes to social welfare type programs. It's a pretty insignificant amount. As an aside, a good chunk the Feds spend on "Welfare" is actually block grants to the states which the states can use for about anything. The largest portion often goes to public education in K-12 and state universities as general spending.

6. "Along with fixing the foodstamp program, Trump needs to do a full audit of the disability program with impartial judged and drastically reduce those rolls as well."
While reducing the rolls would be great, kicking people off who need these programs wouldn't be. If you actually want to reduce the rolls, you should be investing in education, infrastructure, retraining programs, and relocation programs for families to relocate to where the economy has jobs available. You would also be ensuring that we pay workers, including military families, a livable wagea so they can have sustainable financial situations independent of government assistance.

It's pretty clear you have absolutely no understanding of the welfare, social programs or food stamps/SNAP. You should do some research and look at the numbers/programs before commenting any further.

#29 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-11 12:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So you want them to get a job but also be available at your convenience to get their groceries. That makes perfect sense.
-syco
Is that what you took away from my post? Are you really that stupid?
#27 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

That's literally what you said: "Register, show up to get their groceries, or be there when delivered."

If it isn't what you meant, maybe you should consider thinking through your wording a bit more before you post because these people already go get their groceries at the grocery store.

#30 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-11 12:58 PM | Reply

There is no question there is a lot of fraud and waste.

Is there really, though?

Going from my memory, I seem to recall the dollar amount sounding impressive but as a % of total benefits distributed it's minuscule (single digit >5% type minuscule).

#31 | Posted by jpw at 2018-04-11 01:03 PM | Reply

"There is so much fraud and waste on the user and distributor side that turning the process on its head may be worth a try."

That's not even close to a sensible reason.
That's just you looking for an excuse to be cheap when it comes to social programs.

#32 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-11 01:23 PM | Reply

Rwingers ignore the studies that prove the efficacy of these programs, as shown in the thread article, just a they ignore the studies that show immigration is an overall net plus for the economy and the society as are these programs.

They'd rather repeat the fear-mongering memes about the poor with which their wealthy Tinkle Down Not! Masters have brainwashed them.

Science being fake news and all.

#33 | Posted by Corky at 2018-04-11 01:30 PM | Reply

"There is no question there is a lot of fraud and waste."
Is there really, though?
Going from my memory, I seem to recall the dollar amount sounding impressive but as a % of total benefits distributed it's minuscule (single digit >5% type minuscule).

#31 | POSTED BY JPW

For me, that's still a lot. It's just not an unreasonable amount given the cost to solve for it.

#34 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-11 01:34 PM | Reply

What are those poor people going to do?

www.marketwatch.com

#35 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-04-11 01:39 PM | Reply

Uhhh seriously? You apparently don't understand how these things work already.

#7 | Posted by GalaxiePete

You are right gal. We have become a nation of leaches.

#36 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-04-11 01:41 PM | Reply

Uhhh seriously? You apparently don't understand how these things work already.
#7 | Posted by GalaxiePete
You are right gal. We have become a nation of leaches.
#36 | POSTED BY SNIPER

Well obviously. But we Blue states and metro areas are okay for the most part supporting you Red state agricultural areas because we understand your roads, utilities, water, etc. is too expensive for you to pay on your own because not enough people live in those areas.

Your welcome.

#37 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-11 01:44 PM | Reply

Where is your outrage for the corporate "debit cards" and corporations living off the taxpayer teat?

#13 | Posted by donnerboy

I am sure you have examples of this going on.

#38 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-04-11 01:44 PM | Reply

...Can't believe I just did that..."Your"....

You're welcome.

#39 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-11 01:44 PM | Reply

Is that what you took away from my post? Are you really that stupid?

#27 | Posted by 101Chairborne

He is.

#40 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-04-11 01:47 PM | Reply

Where is your outrage for the corporate "debit cards" and corporations living off the taxpayer teat?
#13 | Posted by donnerboy
I am sure you have examples of this going on.
#38 | POSTED BY SNIPER

Absolutely. And so does anyone who knows how to Google anything rather than just listening to Hannity all day.

Farming Corporate Welfare: www.aei.org
Trump's Tax Plan Corporate Welfare: www.indivisible.org
Gas and Oil Corporate Welfare: www.taxpayer.net

In fact, we spend MORE on Corporate Welfare than we do on actual Welfare for the poor outside of Medicare/Social Security.

#41 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-11 01:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Going from my memory, I seem to recall the dollar amount sounding impressive but as a % of total benefits distributed it's minuscule (single digit >5% type minuscule).

#31 | Posted by jpw

So, you are good with fraud if it isn't too big a % of the total?> WOW!!!

#42 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-04-11 01:49 PM | Reply

Re#38

Is your google broke? Here you go you poor helpless snowflake.

lmgtfy.com

#43 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-04-11 01:50 PM | Reply

Is that what you took away from my post? Are you really that stupid?
#27 | Posted by 101Chairborne
He is.
#40 | POSTED BY SNIPER

I just know how to READ.

So how about you tell us again how Obama ran up the National Debt $20 trillion in 8 years.

#44 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-11 01:50 PM | Reply

Going from my memory, I seem to recall the dollar amount sounding impressive but as a % of total benefits distributed it's minuscule (single digit >5% type minuscule).
#31 | Posted by jpw
So, you are good with fraud if it isn't too big a % of the total?> WOW!!!
#42 | POSTED BY SNIPER

Yes. Absolutely.

Because:
1) Every system will have fraud.
2) Combating fraud past a certain point is more expensive than the fraud itself.
3) Certain measures to combat fraud actually kicks deserving people out of the system for a minor benefit.

Unless, you'd like to pay a lot more for welfare programs to have fraud units with expansive budgets?

#45 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-11 01:51 PM | Reply

Farming is full of welfare.

Lowering corp taxes is NOT welfare

Depletion allowance is NOT welfare, it is a tax write-off

#46 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-04-11 01:52 PM | Reply

We have become a nation of leaches.

#36 | Posted by Sniper

Are you only referring to those using social services to fill the gaps their employers opened or are you including the CEOs who's pay has skyrocketed from an ever more efficient and productive workforce being paid less for more?

#47 | Posted by jpw at 2018-04-11 01:54 PM | Reply

"Lowering corp taxes is NOT welfare"

So when people talk about "corporate welfare," do you have no idea what they're referring to, or do you pencil in "jealousy?"

#48 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-11 01:57 PM | Reply

So, you are good with fraud if it isn't too big a % of the total?> WOW!!!

#42 | Posted by Sniper

Of course I'm not "good with fraud", I'm merely pointing out that the appropriate measure suggests it's not as rampant or widespread as the c-c-c-c-conservatives like to say it is.

Likely because they don't understand log scales.

#49 | Posted by jpw at 2018-04-11 01:57 PM | Reply

Lowering corp taxes is NOT welfare

What about lowering taxes for corps with large subsidies?

#50 | Posted by jpw at 2018-04-11 01:58 PM | Reply

"So, you are good with fraud if it isn't too big a % of the total?"

Sniper, do you acknowledge that there's an opportunity cost to combat fraud?

#51 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-11 02:00 PM | Reply

"Lowering corp taxes is NOT welfare"

How is it not welfare if one corporation pays taxes and the other corporation doesn't?
That's more money in one corporations's pocket.
That's not welfare?

#52 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-11 02:10 PM | Reply

We have way, way, way too many people on food stamps.

Then start holding corporations accountable for not paying workers enough to feed a family.

#53 | Posted by 726 at 2018-04-11 02:11 PM | Reply

We have become a nation of leaches.

#36 | Posted by Sniper

I am reminded of that every time a right winger whines about paying teachers a good salary.

#54 | Posted by 726 at 2018-04-11 02:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I seem to recall Obama relaxing the requirements for welfare recipients. Does this change simply bring things back to prior levels?

I'm drive-by blogging today so haven't had enough time to dig into this.

#55 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-04-11 02:17 PM | Reply

Thanks for the drive-by Obama deflection!
Mighty white of you.

#56 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-11 02:20 PM | Reply

So, I am a hypothetical rightwing Republican congressman in an agricultural red state. Being rightwing republican, I claim to hate food stamps and welfare of any types. (Lazy bastards should get a job.) But my biggest donors are wealthy corporate agriculture outfits. They make BILLIONS of dollars every year by selling massive amounts of food to the Federal Government which is then purchased via food stamps. These Corporate Farms take a massive hit to profits if Food Stamps are cut. What to do? Being a cynical rightwing Republican, I publicly denounce foodstamps and other public welfare programs, while making damn sure in the back room deals that none of these programs suffers any real cuts. FoxNews loves me. Corporate Ag donors love me. Stupid Republicans throughout the nation love me. Problem solved.

#57 | Posted by moder8 at 2018-04-11 02:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Farming is full of welfare.
Lowering corp taxes is NOT welfare
Depletion allowance is NOT welfare, it is a tax write-off

#46 | POSTED BY SNIPER

Why?

Half the time you whine about freeloaders not paying any taxes because they don't make enough.

But now, tax cuts to corporations, sometimes reducing corporate taxes to nothing, are suddenly not welfare?

Man, would I LOVE some of this "not welfare"!

#58 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-11 02:42 PM | Reply

I seem to recall Obama relaxing the requirements for welfare recipients. Does this change simply bring things back to prior levels?
I'm drive-by blogging today so haven't had enough time to dig into this.

#55 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Who knows. We don't really know what the change will be precisely yet.

#59 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-11 02:43 PM | Reply

Just certain poor. The poor residing on SSI Disability are "fine people".

#60 | Posted by fresno500 at 2018-04-11 03:09 PM | Reply

So how about you tell us again how Obama ran up the National Debt $20 trillion in 8 years.

#44 | Posted by Sycophant

You are the only on that said that syc. Now we all know you can't read.

#61 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-04-11 05:16 PM | Reply

So when people talk about "corporate welfare," do you have no idea what they're referring to, or do you pencil in "jealousy?"

#48 | Posted by snoofy

How about the green company that went bankrupt after 500 billion was given to them. That was welfare along with bailing GM and the banks out with the trillion dollars.

Now you have a clue.

#62 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-04-11 05:20 PM | Reply

Of course I'm not "good with fraud", I'm merely pointing out that the appropriate measure suggests it's not as rampant or widespread as the c-c-c-c-conservatives like to say it is.

Likely because they don't understand log scales.

#49 | Posted by jpw

It is everywhere in government programs. WTF does scaling logs have to do with government waste? I suppose you don't have a clue what log scaling is.

#63 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-04-11 05:23 PM | Reply

Because:
1) Every system will have fraud.
2) Combating fraud past a certain point is more expensive than the fraud itself.
3) Certain measures to combat fraud actually kicks deserving people out of the system for a minor benefit.

Unless, you'd like to pay a lot more for welfare programs to have fraud units with expansive budgets?

#45 | Posted by Sycophant

has anybody ever told you just how stoopid you sound?

#64 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-04-11 05:25 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Half the time you whine about freeloaders not paying any taxes because they don't make enough.

But now, tax cuts to corporations, sometimes reducing corporate taxes to nothing, are suddenly not welfare?

Man, would I LOVE some of this "not welfare"!

#58 | Posted by Sycophant

Wake up and realize who pays the income taxes for any company........... It is included in the price of their goods and YOU pay all of it. I would have thought a genius like you would have figured that out all by yourself.

#65 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-04-11 05:28 PM | Reply

Sniper don't lecture anyone about taxes till you've had a job.

#66 | Posted by Tor at 2018-04-11 05:28 PM | Reply

"How about the green company that went bankrupt after 500 billion was given to them. That was welfare along with bailing GM and the banks out with the trillion dollars.
Now you have a clue.
#62 | POSTED BY SNIPER "

Oh, so there is welfare on the corporate side.

And, presumably you opposed the bank bailout then.

What do you say to people who say the bank bailout was far less costly than letting the banks fail? Are they wrong, or do you not care, or what?

#67 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-11 05:32 PM | Reply

Because:
1) Every system will have fraud.
2) Combating fraud past a certain point is more expensive than the fraud itself.
3) Certain measures to combat fraud actually kicks deserving people out of the system for a minor benefit.
Unless, you'd like to pay a lot more for welfare programs to have fraud units with expansive budgets?
#45 | Posted by Sycophant

has anybody ever told you just how stoopid you sound?
#64 | POSTED BY SNIPER

^
Huh?
Nothing wrong with Syco's explanation here.
You're the one who sounds dumb, dismissing these obviously true statements.

#68 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-04-11 05:34 PM | Reply

Likely because they don't understand log scales.

#49 | Posted by jpw

It is everywhere in government programs. WTF does scaling logs have to do with government waste? I suppose you don't have a clue what log scaling is.

#63 | Posted by Sniper

Exactly, sniper. Exactly.

#69 | Posted by jpw at 2018-04-11 05:53 PM | Reply

has anybody ever told you just how stoopid you sound?

#64 | Posted by Sniper

FF!

#70 | Posted by jpw at 2018-04-11 05:53 PM | Reply

This is going to be devastating for his base of welfare queens like sniper.

#71 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2018-04-11 06:06 PM | Reply

Man, would I LOVE some of this "not welfare"!
#58 | Posted by Sycophant
Wake up and realize who pays the income taxes for any company........... It is included in the price of their goods and YOU pay all of it. I would have thought a genius like you would have figured that out all by yourself.
#65 | POSTED BY SNIPER

Actually, that's not how it works entirely. Yes, taxes can drive up the cost of goods but its rare for them to have a serious impact. The majority of taxes are on Corporate PROFITS, not revenue. So its quite a small percentage of the actual cost of a product after all is done and said. And the effective tax rate in this country is very low compared to the statutory tax rate you see due to loopholes, subsidies and deductions. And what you fail to grasp is that you are actually paying to make the company profit. Many companies, like GE, pay such low taxes that they don't actually pay for the infrastructure they use. That cost is actually passed onto you and you pay for it with your tax dollars. But the owners still take home the profit utilizing the infrastructure, educated work force, and police/fire protections you paid for.

And worse, some companies like GE for several years, not only avoided taxes entirely but over the course of four years were paid billions by the US Government in tax subsidies despite making nearly $30 billion in profit.

Welcome to America.

#72 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-11 07:32 PM | Reply

Man, would I LOVE some of this "not welfare"!

#58 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

=======================

It is quite clear you are either still in high school or college and have never actually paid taxes. So, you are enjoying that 'not welfare' as we speak. After you get that job as a community organizer and if you ever crack $50K a year, tell me again how much you like the fraud and abuse in government programs.

#73 | Posted by Rex_Buyt at 2018-04-11 08:37 PM | Reply

about ------ time!

#74 | Posted by Maverick at 2018-04-11 09:06 PM | Reply

It is quite clear you are either still in high school or college and have never actually paid taxes. So, you are enjoying that 'not welfare' as we speak. After you get that job as a community organizer and if you ever crack $50K a year, tell me again how much you like the fraud and abuse in government programs.

#73 | POSTED BY REX_BUYT AT 2018-04-11 08:37 PM | REPLY |

As a network engineer at a fortune 500 company I probably pay more in taxes each year than you make. I don't have a problem with paying them. My taxes pay for good schools, police, fire, libraries, museums, parks, roads, and lots of other things including government assistance programs. I don't directly benefit from most of them. I understand however that I benefit
indirectly when other people are helped. My daughter is out of college. I receive no direct benefit from funding public schools. I do however benefit when our education system produces innovators who create things that do make my life better directly. Sure not all of the publicly educated kids become Bill Gates or Elon Musk but some do, and the more kids being educated, the more WILL become the next wave of innovators. Each wave builds upon the success of the last.

#75 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-04-12 11:02 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"It is. And summer too. I think children should be taken away and put into foster care if you are unable to do the most basic job of a parent which is to feed your kid."

Psychotic.

"It is quite clear you are either still in high school or college and have never actually paid taxes."

This moron is too stupid to realize he is talking to people who make more money than he does and pay far more in taxes than he does but just aren't as mean spirited as he is. Tea Party? Yes, I think so.

#76 | Posted by danni at 2018-04-12 11:12 AM | Reply

Lowering corp taxes is NOT welfare
Depletion allowance is NOT welfare, it is a tax write-off

#46 | POSTED BY SNIPER AT 2018-04-11 01:52 PM | REPLY

So when a corporation uses the roads and is protected by the fire department and the police department and their contracts are enforced by our court system and they pay no taxes because their machines aren't as new as they were last year you think that's NOT Welfare?

A single Semi loaded at average weight does the same amount of damage to the roadway as 1,408 passenger cars.

Trucks comprised 4.1% of traffic on the interstate highway system That means that if 1000 vehicles go by on the interstate there were 41 trucks and 959 cars but EACH of the 41 trucks did almost 50% more damage than all of the cars COMBINED.

ops.fhwa.dot.gov

Trucks do 98% of the damage to our interstate system but only about 1/4th of the gas tax that is supposed to fund their maintenance.

So yes when you lower corporate taxes and shift the cost of everything they use to the rest of us you are giving them welfare

#77 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-04-12 11:25 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

I seem to recall Obama relaxing the requirements for welfare recipients. Does this change simply bring things back to prior levels?
I'm drive-by blogging today so haven't had enough time to dig into this.

#55 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-04-11 02:17 PM | REPLY

Your memory is full of things that never happened.

www.politifact.com

#78 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-04-12 11:34 AM | Reply

It's not much of an executive order.....not specific and doesn't really change any policies.

It looks like tough talk from the little guy.......and that's all.

#79 | Posted by eberly at 2018-04-12 11:35 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"It's not much of an executive order.....not specific and doesn't really change any policies. "

Bashing welfare recipients is Republican dogma, Trump is just speaking to his rabid base.

#80 | Posted by danni at 2018-04-12 12:10 PM | Reply

It's not much of an executive order.....not specific and doesn't really change any policies.
It looks like tough talk from the little guy.......and that's all.

#79 | POSTED BY EBERLY

That's something we can agree on.

#81 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-12 12:19 PM | Reply

Man, would I LOVE some of this "not welfare"!
#58 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT
=======================
It is quite clear you are either still in high school or college and have never actually paid taxes. So, you are enjoying that 'not welfare' as we speak. After you get that job as a community organizer and if you ever crack $50K a year, tell me again how much you like the fraud and abuse in government programs.

#73 | POSTED BY REX_BUYT

The Trump tax cut gave me an extra $5,000 year. My old job required me to submit tax calculations for my clients for court. I sit next to the guys who sell and advise on one of the most used tax planning software systems on the planet and we debate tax policy at lunch (usually Tuesdays).

No, I think I've got a fair idea what I'm talking about. If you'd like to show me how I'm wrong, please go ahead and do so rather than whining, Snowflake.

#82 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-04-12 12:22 PM | Reply

"Bashing welfare recipients is Republican dogma, Trump is just speaking to his rabid base."

That's pretty much what it amounts to.

#83 | Posted by eberly at 2018-04-12 05:10 PM | Reply

I go all in with Donnerboy.
Why is it that Rs always, ALWAYS demonize the poor and ignore the corporate and military welfare, which costs way more money (nationally and locally) than welfare?
It's beyond me, I admit, how Conservative Christians can claim on the one hand to be Christian and on the other hand to vote Republican today. The Republicans in Congress are not Christian in any sense of the word. My conclusion is that they think abortion outweighs EVERY OTHER consideration: character, competence, mental fitness, experience, criminal activity, compassion....and consequences be damned.

#84 | Posted by e1g1 at 2018-04-12 05:14 PM | Reply

"Why is it that Rs always, ALWAYS demonize the poor and ignore the corporate and military welfare..."

Whys is it that progressives always want to demonize corporate welfare, while enshrining public welfare as a noble institution?

Why does one suck and one doesn't?

#85 | Posted by madbomber at 2018-04-12 06:55 PM | Reply

- Why does one suck and one doesn't?

Because one is the powerful tlite and the other is the oppressed poor. Weird that someone would have to 'splain that to you.

Well, maybe not, since you think that people are poor because, really, they want to be.... not to mention deserve to be.

And the wealthy are always only that way because they deserve to be.

#86 | Posted by Corky at 2018-04-12 07:01 PM | Reply

tlite = elite

#87 | Posted by Corky at 2018-04-12 07:02 PM | Reply

"Because one is the powerful tlite and the other is the oppressed poor. Weird that someone would have to 'splain that to you."

Thank you for your honest response, Komrade.

#88 | Posted by madbomber at 2018-04-12 07:02 PM | Reply

Are there no prisons? And the workhouses...are they still in operation?

~Ebenezer J. Trump

#89 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-04-12 07:14 PM | Reply

- Komrade.

Really? That should be right up there with "Hitler!" as non-responsive.... which of course you were.

But then, you could have just as well said Jesus, who created a communal church.

Funny how you also didn't address the other 2/3d's of my post.... because it was spot on, one can only assume.

#90 | Posted by Corky at 2018-04-12 08:00 PM | Reply

--Really? That should be right up there with "Hitler!" as non-responsive.... which of course you were.

Amazing. Spoken by a poster infamous for calling people "nazi coddlers." The lack of self-awareness is stunning.

#91 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-04-12 08:10 PM | Reply

"Funny how you also didn't address the other 2/3d's of my post.... because it was spot on, one can only assume."

Yeah. Your analysis represents a high level of intellectual comprehension there, Dorky.

WoTW, U!

#92 | Posted by madbomber at 2018-04-12 08:13 PM | Reply

"It is. And summer too. I think children should be taken away and put into foster care if you are unable to do the most basic job of a parent which is to feed your kid."
Psychotic.

I totally agree - having children removed from their parent is patently the worst decision, ask any professional - this clown is pushing a very hard line and hasn't professed any religious excuse yet..

"It is quite clear you are either still in high school or college and have never actually paid taxes."
This moron is too stupid to realize he is talking to people who make more money than he does and pay far more in taxes than he does but just aren't as mean spirited as he is. Tea Party? Yes, I think so.
#76 | Posted by danni at 2018-04-12 11:12 AM

The kind of person that won't admit undocumented immigrants are paying a higher percentage of taxes and the majority are employed. This creature doesn't comprehend the motive of attacking the Mexican laborers and not those who employ them. Or the 700,000 backlog with up to 5 years for a 2 minute "trial". The citizenship system is fraudulent and unduly constrains the proper function of government and invents a national security risk with cascading agency reactions. Like an amoeba slowly stunning with each attaching tentacle.

That is something that the neoNazi share with the TeaBags - a very transparent xenophobic platform and directing efforts to attack local schools and their communities. The stuff of Republican dreams because it feeds their incarceration and security contracts.

We need to feed everyone, clothe everyone, house and educate, employ and groom. Everyone. Even these Nazi deserve to prove their independent potentials, shed terrorism and become more complete - that's the hope, right? What kind of "propaganda" provokes them the most? Hillary. Why not make a propaganda tape of holiday Hillary hanging with Hitler, maybe paling around on Polanski's boat with a sassy Lady Gandhi impersonator and an impressionable pre-op Roy Moore? Seeing their beloved leader high-fiving Baals handmaiden might scare them straight. They sip mohitos and laugh about creating the Nazi originally as a modern dance troupe. I'm still cool with taincar-enforced yoga, where you herd them in, a warped loop of 'Obsession' fizzing over the loudspeakers. Self-actualization is completed with creation of their individual workout move. "I'm Grand Wizard Erich and I love Plow Pose!"

#93 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2018-04-12 08:31 PM | Reply

#93

Oh my god...

You need to share you drugs...because they are clearly AMAZING!!!!

#94 | Posted by madbomber at 2018-04-12 09:42 PM | Reply

Where does one find LSD nowadays?

#95 | Posted by madbomber at 2018-04-12 09:43 PM | Reply

I want to be groomed...can you groom me, Redlightrobot?

#96 | Posted by madbomber at 2018-04-12 09:45 PM | Reply

You're not going to jump out of a high rise tonight because you think you can fly, are you?

#97 | Posted by madbomber at 2018-04-12 09:47 PM | Reply

#93
Oh my god...
You need to share you drugs...because they are clearly AMAZING!!!!
#94 | Posted by madbomber at 2018-04-12 09:42 PM

I meant "traincar-enforced yoga". Sorry for any confusion.

That's a sweet idea for the new Trump anti-drug campaign "..or are drugs doing you?" Just show images of Trump drooling after a ketamine steak, or when he switches into perfect Russian when talking about his grandmothers axe collection. Donald gently stroking Vladimir, the nick-name of his cotton-candy piss hair, and maybe a little adventure where they help stop the horrific SNAP angel from feeding the nations poor by laundering embezzled funds into his Trump towers to house them instead. He turns out to be a benevolent soul, creating brief jobs as the soylent T program upscales processing to two sanctuary cities per month and sales of locals nutritional slurry is formed into nuggets by our Chinese sister government via the Value Menu Accord.

#98 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2018-04-13 01:38 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

#94 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

You'll want an anti-depressant after this:

Immigration Doesn't Hurt Native Jobs or Wages in the U.S.

time.com

#92

One can't help but notice you still had no argument.... but that's your MO. I'll take it as proof I was right.

- The lack of self-awareness is stunning.

Well, it looks made just for you, true, but stunning? You should read some of your Trump Cupping sometimes. That's stunning.

#99 | Posted by Corky at 2018-04-13 01:45 AM | Reply

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