Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, February 14, 2018

Broward Schools Superintendent Robert Runcie has confirmed there have been numerous fatalities in this shooting. The Broward Sheriff's Office has confirmed they have a suspect in custody in connection to a shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland that may have injured as many as 20 people.

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Reports from the Broward County S.O. as of now 20 -50 people injured.

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Reports are shooter still at large.

#1 | Posted by gracieamazed at 2018-02-14 03:24 PM | Reply

Senator Bill Nelson says many killed. Gov Scott called President Trump. Sad.

#2 | Posted by gracieamazed at 2018-02-14 03:55 PM | Reply

Oh but ain't that America for you and me
Ain't that America somethin' to see baby
Ain't that America home of the free

#3 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2018-02-14 04:01 PM | Reply

Nothing to see here.
Thoughts and prayers, wot!
Dead children, you say?
Small price to pay, you know.
Shall not be infringed, doncha know?
So much more valuable than Life liberty and the Pursuit, wot?

Feeling bad?
Cuddle your gun.

#4 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2018-02-14 04:02 PM | Reply

Looks like they actually arrested the shooter in this one instead of him killing himself or getting killed by police.

#5 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2018-02-14 04:03 PM | Reply

NOw is not the time to talk about this situation, please shut up.

#6 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-02-14 04:08 PM | Reply

Trumpublicans and the NRA are going to be complaining about the shooter's skills if only wounded people.

#7 | Posted by Corky at 2018-02-14 04:11 PM | Reply

This is horrible, my heart goes out to the kids, their parents and teachers in this school.

#8 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 04:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

#4 & 7

Kids have died and you freaks can only post spin that fits your narrative.

Disgusting.

#9 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 04:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 8

Multiple Shooting Victims at Florida High School

"But as I said just a few months ago and I said a few months before that, and I said each time we see one of these mass shootings, our thoughts and prayers are not enough. It's not enough.

"It does not capture the heartache and grief and anger that we should feel. And it does nothing to prevent this carnage from being inflicted some place else in America." - President Barack Obama, October 1, 2015

#10 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-14 04:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I rarely pull a Corky and flag posts offensive, but #4 and 7 deserved it.

I know you won't get vacations but you both completely deserve it.

SMFH

#11 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 04:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Multiple Shooting Victims at Florida High School

**sigh**

#12 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-14 04:38 PM | Reply

- I rarely pull a Corky and flag posts offensive,

Punk has absolutely no way of knowing who posts what Offensive.

He's just lying yet again.

What IS offensive is his Republicans kowtowing to the NRA on gun laws.

#13 | Posted by Corky at 2018-02-14 04:40 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

18th school shooting for 2018.

#14 | Posted by memyselfini at 2018-02-14 04:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

The American carnage STOPS NOW!

- Dotard 1/20/17.

#15 | Posted by 726 at 2018-02-14 04:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Whoever allowed guns to fall into the hands of this shooter is going to hell.

#16 | Posted by Tor at 2018-02-14 04:45 PM | Reply

Police said a suspect is in custody. The suspect is a male student and his social media activity indicates he is a member of "a number of gun groups," according to Fox News.

Raw Story

Ah, yet another "good guy with a gun" NRA poster boy. I guess there wasn't enough of him to stop him?

#17 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar at 2018-02-14 04:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

Punk has absolutely no way of knowing who posts what Offensive.

LOL, I know for a fact that you repeatedly flag my posts as offensive/abusive, but go ahead and deny it, we all know the truth.

#18 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 04:45 PM | Reply

This is the 19th shooting at a school in 2018. Some of those were self-infliced. Some involved no injuries but still. A couple of those involved pellet guns. Seriousness of various incidents aside, there has been a shooting event of one form or another at a rate of about 2 for every 3 school days help so far this year.

#19 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2018-02-14 04:48 PM | Reply

If there's only one Rampage at a school in America in a year it is still a failure on our part.

#20 | Posted by Tor at 2018-02-14 04:50 PM | Reply

So how long till a Russian moron claims that the shooter was anti-fascist like that's a bad thing or that he's a Hillary supporter or that he has a grudge against Trump?

#21 | Posted by Tor at 2018-02-14 04:53 PM | Reply

"But as I said just a few months ago and I said a few months before that, and I said each time we see one of these mass shootings, our thoughts and prayers are not enough. It's not enough.
"It does not capture the heartache and grief and anger that we should feel. And it does nothing to prevent this carnage from being inflicted some place else in America." - President Barack Obama, October 1, 2015

#10 | POSTED BY HANS AT 2018-02-14 04:36 PM | REPLY

Reposting for truth

#22 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-02-14 04:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

How about Blue Apron gun delivery?

#23 | Posted by Zed at 2018-02-14 04:58 PM | Reply

Jesus. I just heard the video of the shooting. Lots of shots. Girls screaming. Can't imagine what it was like to be there. My stomach is churning from just listening to the tape.

#24 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-14 05:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

If this shooter wants to set Donald off he can claim Issus allegiance.

#25 | Posted by Zed at 2018-02-14 05:07 PM | Reply

#24 I can't imagine the pain families felt that saw the video before being notified. Gun control will not prevent mass shooting like this, but armed teachers can reduce the amount of casualties. And I will add that there are several posters here that need help. Their hatred runs deep and is not healthy.

#26 | Posted by gracieamazed at 2018-02-14 05:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I bet it's going to come out that this kid was beat up on, picked on or was "wronged" in his mind in some way.

This event belongs to him only.

This does not belong to the millions of law abiding gun owners in this country.

#27 | Posted by boaz at 2018-02-14 05:14 PM | Reply

- we all know the truth.

More logical fallacy, and more lies, from LawyerBoy.

But hey, no argument about his Republicans kowtowing to the NRA. Go figure.

#28 | Posted by Corky at 2018-02-14 05:15 PM | Reply

Unsupervised children should never have access to guns and mentally ill people should have generally have access to guns at all.

#29 | Posted by Tor at 2018-02-14 05:17 PM | Reply

#24

I'm willing to listen to any reasonable plan to stop these massacres.

Arming teachers is one of these half-baked ideas some people offer so they don't have to do anything really.

#30 | Posted by Zed at 2018-02-14 05:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

There are already Right wing idiots saying this shooting was staged

The mental health if Americans is a political issue and I know who needs help first.

#31 | Posted by Zed at 2018-02-14 05:24 PM | Reply

I thought this was a news discussion site, not a routine occurrence discussion site.

#32 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 05:30 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

It's awful, awful, awful and we have to do, do, do something.

Nothing's going to be done.

Any bozo really want to discuss anger with me?

#33 | Posted by Zed at 2018-02-14 05:30 PM | Reply

#30,

So you just want to hear solutions that align with your ideology, right?

#34 | Posted by boaz at 2018-02-14 05:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

I always hate when these psychos kill themselves, but now that this guy didn't kill him self I'm still po'd.

I think cruel and unusual punishment for these guys should be SOP.

#35 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 05:46 PM | Reply

CNN coverage is painful. Anyone else watching something that's decent? Wolfe is awful.

#36 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 05:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Why is war hero Brian Williams making a big deal about how the kids were made to put their arms above their heads as they came out of the school?

#37 | Posted by boaz at 2018-02-14 05:47 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

The kid was 20. Still poking around a high school. That's the first red flag. What a loser.

#38 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 05:49 PM | Reply

"This does not belong to the millions of law abiding gun owners in this country." - #27 | Posted by pfc. boazotoes© (h/t to ichiro) at 2018-02-14 05:14 PM

For all anyone knows, today's gunman was one of the "millions of law abiding gun owners in this country."

Until just before 3:00pm this afternoon.

Then he wasn't.

#39 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-14 05:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#30,
So you just want to hear solutions that align with your ideology, right?

#34 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2018-02-14 05:45 PM | FLAG:

Well yeah, since, you know, those are the solutions that work. Don't believe me? Look at, oh, say, the rest of the bloody industrialized world.

#40 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-14 05:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

This does not belong to the millions of law abiding gun owners in this country.

#27 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2018-02-14 05:14 PM | FLAG:

Yeah, it really really does.

#41 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-14 05:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

What Boaz means is he is only interested in hearing solutions which conform with his ideology.

Which means...thoughts and prayers, and this is not the time to talk about solutions.

Which means, cuddle your guns.

#42 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2018-02-14 05:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

What will be done? Probably nothing. Since Vegas shooting bump stocks are still out there. That should have been a simple one to ban. Part of the problem besides the easy gun access is what is going on with kids. when we were kids guns weren't locked up, and this idiocy wasn't a norm. Sure there was fights at school regularly but not shootings. Something has changed with the way kids deal with anger. Is it over medicating kids?

#43 | Posted by patron at 2018-02-14 06:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

43
I swear there were fights every day at school, and I went to catholic schools.
I ask my kids and nobody at school fights now a days.

#44 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 06:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

My son got kicked out in grade school for fighting back. I talked with the principle and she said he should have ran away and told a teacher instead of fighting back. The meeting went all down hill after that. But yeah they surpressed the fighting and now you have this. Who knows

#45 | Posted by patron at 2018-02-14 06:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#43 | Posted by patron

What has changed?

A explosive proliferation of "legal" guns - Long guns and handguns.
A large segment of society worshiping guns and gun culture.
A crippled national mental health system.
A system where each child is treated as "special" and a ribbon goes to everyone.
A society which treats virtually all children's behavioral issues with medications.
Parenting or lack there of.

#46 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2018-02-14 06:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Almost forgot - 24-hour Connection to Social Media.

#47 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2018-02-14 06:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

17 dead...so unnecessary.

#48 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2018-02-14 06:32 PM | Reply

#45 Patron

Are you seriously trying to tell me that stopping fights in school is what is leading to kids murdering fellow students? I'm sure it has nothing to do with having 350 million guns in the country. For the first time ever we had more guns than people starting in 2015. And you wonder why this is happening more and more? Honestly, how stupid are you?

#49 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 06:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Not as stupid as you. See how easy that is.

#50 | Posted by patron at 2018-02-14 06:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Syco,
You never fail to make yourself look like the dumbest gal in the room. Reread that post as many times as it takes.

#51 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 06:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Syco,
You never fail to make yourself look like the dumbest gal in the room. Reread that post as many times as it takes.

#51 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

It's pretty dead on, buddy.

#52 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 06:42 PM | Reply

This is horrible, my heart goes out to the kids, their parents and teachers in this school.

#8 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

Thank you putting an end to school shootings.

#53 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 06:44 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

only 16-17 corpses? meh

you guys need to get serious about legalizing more automatic or military grade weapons, this type of poor performance is sub par.

#54 | Posted by panchovilla at 2018-02-14 06:47 PM | Reply

Maybe at least part of the solution is technological. Something that disables guns or bullets.

I know, it sounds pretty far out. But so does arming everybody else with guns. Or blaming it all on insufficient treatment for mental illness.

#55 | Posted by cbob at 2018-02-14 06:47 PM | Reply

Maybe at least part of the solution is technological. Something that disables guns or bullets.
I know, it sounds pretty far out. But so does arming everybody else with guns. Or blaming it all on insufficient treatment for mental illness.

#55 | POSTED BY CBOB

...We could always just have a few less guns...

#56 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 06:50 PM | Reply

Mental health has to be the issue. Arming everyone isn't the answer and neither is some technology that can't possibly exist.

#57 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 06:51 PM | Reply

This does not belong to the millions of law abiding gun owners in this country.

#27 | Posted by boaz

Nothing can be Done.

The Tree of Liberty is so thirsty.

Let's water it with our children's blood.

Again. And Again. And Again.

#58 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-02-14 06:52 PM | Reply

Some kid on cnn said they all joked that the kid who shot up the school would some day shoot up the school. So, there's that....

#59 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 06:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Last name Cruz, Nicholas I think.

#60 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 06:53 PM | Reply

Mental health has to be the issue. Arming everyone isn't the answer and neither is some technology that can't possibly exist.

#57 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

Tell us how to identify the crazy person who is going to grab a gun and shoot everyone. Do you have any idea how impossible that is in a country this size?

And it would be awesome if we could keep guns out of the hands of people who have been deemed too mentally ill to have firearms, but the Republicans struck down the Obama administrations rule designed to stop people with severe mental health problems from buying guns.

#61 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 06:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

This does not belong to the millions of law abiding gun owners in this country.

#27 | Posted by boaz at 2018-02-14 05:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

This is ultimately on us all for being too cowardly and too lazy to demand our government to address these grave issues. It's happening on our watch.

#62 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-14 07:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

61,
Well, in this specific case, ------, the kid cnn interviewed said they all joked this kid would be the one to shoot up the school. So they managed to identify him.
In many other cases there were obvious warnings that went unheeded, as I'm sure anyone that's read any news would know.

Any other stupid questions, or are you starting to come to the conclusion you're not equipped to participate in this conversation?

#63 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 07:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

You also may want more than a left wing talking points understanding of the obama admin proposal before trotting our your stupidity.

#64 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 07:07 PM | Reply

61,
Well, in this specific case, ------, the kid cnn interviewed said they all joked this kid would be the one to shoot up the school. So they managed to identify him.
In many other cases there were obvious warnings that went unheeded, as I'm sure anyone that's read any news would know.
Any other stupid questions, or are you starting to come to the conclusion you're not equipped to participate in this conversation?

#63 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

Well, ------, do you have any idea how common that is? Kids joking that someone weird or messed up is going to shoot up the school? Do you have a clue how many messed up kids and adults there are?

And we are going to throw everyone with warning signs into the psych ward for examination or bar them from having guns?

So come on, give us what can be done with mental health that would make a significant impact.

#65 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 07:07 PM | Reply

But whatever you do, DO NOT use this incident as an excuse to bring up the issue of gun control. - The GOP

#66 | Posted by moder8 at 2018-02-14 07:09 PM | Reply

You also may want more than a left wing talking points understanding of the obama admin proposal before trotting our your stupidity.

#64 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

Seemed like a good regulation to me and everyone with half a brain... I know the NRA opposed it though.

Did the Republicans put in place a more refined regulation? ...no? Call me shocked!

Hey, did the Feds ban bump stocks yet?

#67 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 07:09 PM | Reply

LOL, I know for a fact that you repeatedly flag my posts as offensive/abusive, but go ahead and deny it, we all know the truth.

#18 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER
Quit being a disgusting little snowflake.

#68 | Posted by aborted_monson at 2018-02-14 07:10 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

The Onion is already on top of it:
‘No Way To Prevent This,' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

#69 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 07:12 PM | Reply

Just sit back and take it. Sooner you do that the sooner it will be over.

Truth hurts

#70 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-02-14 07:13 PM | Reply

Another banner day for the terrorist group that is the NRA, the Republican Party, and Orange Adolf.

Just a matter of time before Bill Hicks calls this a false flag on his ------ little propaganda network.

#71 | Posted by aborted_monson at 2018-02-14 07:13 PM | Reply

"Well, in this specific case, ------, the kid cnn interviewed said they all joked this kid would be the one to shoot up the school."

Like anyone in the GOP thinks that's a sufficient reason to take guns away!

School shootings are a hoot around here.

#72 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 07:15 PM | Reply

I'm sure it has nothing to do with having 350 million guns in the country.

This is all about socialization.

The kids who "arent cool" are just fighting back to get respect. And they see the "we thought he would come back and shoot up the school" response and mistaking that for respect. People who fear you usually dont respect you. We saw that in the professor saying the "N" word thread. The black students tried to intimidate the professor with bodily force and it worked.

Not everyone gets a trophy. But in our society today, we are lying to our kids and telling them they do. We tell them to stand up to bullies. Which is good. But sometimes, the bully kicks your ass and that clarifies your role in your social hierarchy. You realize not everyone is equal.

God made man. Smith and Wesson made them equal.

#73 | Posted by boaz at 2018-02-14 07:17 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Syco,
Go flirt with somebody else. You're simply too stupid to discuss this, as has been shown multiple times in this thread already.

#74 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 07:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#73 | POSTED BY BOAZ

There are not words to describe how stupid this post is... There are simply not words...

#75 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 07:20 PM | Reply

This is all about socialization.
The kids who "arent cool" are just fighting back to get respect. And they see the "we thought he would come back and shoot up the school" response and mistaking that for respect. People who fear you usually dont respect you. We saw that in the professor saying the "N" word thread. The black students tried to intimidate the professor with bodily force and it worked.
Not everyone gets a trophy. But in our society today, we are lying to our kids and telling them they do. We tell them to stand up to bullies. Which is good. But sometimes, the bully kicks your ass and that clarifies your role in your social hierarchy. You realize not everyone is equal.
God made man. Smith and Wesson made them equal.
#73 | Posted by boaz

So are you saying that since you don't get respect and are bullied around the DR you are going to shoot some ---- up?

#76 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-02-14 07:21 PM | Reply

Syco,
Go flirt with somebody else. You're simply too stupid to discuss this, as has been shown multiple times in this thread already.

#74 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

No, Chair, we are all waiting for an answer. Mental Health is an issue that is related. But how do you solve the issue by focusing only on mental health?

Come on. You had to post here like an idiot and call me out. I asked for one little plan and several posts later you've still got nothing.

Either tell us your brilliant idea or quit wasting space.

Tell us your plan.

Tell us your plan.

Tell us your plan.

#77 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 07:22 PM | Reply

"Some kid on cnn said they all joked that the kid who shot up the school would some day shoot up the school. So, there's that...."

Was his name John David Stutts?

#78 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 07:23 PM | Reply

"But sometimes, the bully kicks your ass and that clarifies your role in your social hierarchy."

And then you get mad and shoot up your school.

Boaz you might be on to something here...

#79 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 07:24 PM | Reply

No,I dont need to shoot anything up.

I just want a little more even moderation around here. But since some posters are ass kissers, it doesnt happen.

But we see it all the time. Kids get bullied. Kids are brutal. In their helplessness, they lose some of their humanity. They want to see their tormentors feel the same pain they do. In our violence in their face society, they can imagine it. Our kids have no more childhoods.

Our culture has changed. This is what you get.

#80 | Posted by boaz at 2018-02-14 07:24 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Here's my solution:

Clone Frank Cotton as many times as needed to put him at every school. Problem solved.

#81 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 07:26 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#80 | POSTED BY BOAZ

Great. But its not only kids doing the shootings.

In fact, about 1/3 of America's worst mass shootings have been committed by veterans.

Kids or not, veterans or not, what can we do about it?

#82 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 07:27 PM | Reply

Too bad the politicians in Congress care more about financial donations from the NRA and individuals who support the extremist gun positions of the NRA than they care about the lives of school children. Truth.

Guns are for -------.

#83 | Posted by moder8 at 2018-02-14 07:28 PM | Reply

Not everyone gets a trophy. But in our society today, we are lying to our kids and telling them they do.

Christ, this tripe again. I honestly don't know what world some people live in.

I've raised children. They have participated in a variety of sports. They don't get trophies after the age of 8 or 10 or so. My daughter did gymnastics for years. She was alone on that balance beam and immediately got a score-it was all hers 1st or last place. My boys did wrestling, you were alone on that mat and either you won or you lost. Period end of story. My boy won his little league championship one year. HIS team won it. The following year his football team went - and 10.

Kids have plenty of opportunity to learn winning and losing. Stop being a stereotypical old person.

#84 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-02-14 07:29 PM | Reply

Perfect timing for Trump. Attention is away from Rob Porter and Stormy Daniels. Tell me how sad he really is.

#85 | Posted by HeeHaw at 2018-02-14 07:29 PM | Reply

Guns are for -------.

#83 | POSTED BY MODER8

Rifles are for -------. Guns are for pleasure.

"This is my rifle; this is my gun.

This is for fighting; this is for fun."

#86 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 07:30 PM | Reply

Perfect timing for Trump. Attention is away from Rob Porter and Stormy Daniels. Tell me how sad he really is.

#85 | POSTED BY HEEHAW

Maybe if Rob Porter beat the ---- out of Stormy Daniels media attention would be back where it belongs? :-)

#87 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 07:31 PM | Reply

No,I dont need to shoot anything up.
I just want a little more even moderation around here. But since some posters are ass kissers, it doesnt happen.
But we see it all the time. Kids get bullied. Kids are brutal. In their helplessness, they lose some of their humanity. They want to see their tormentors feel the same pain they do. In our violence in their face society, they can imagine it. Our kids have no more childhoods.
Our culture has changed. This is what you get.
#80 | Posted by boaz

So which is it, you demand an even playing field or do you have to grow up and deal with reality? I'm honestly curious how you square that circle,

My kids have a childhood. Not sure what your point is though. Seems to me your saying easy access to guns give kids an opportunity to lash out violently, hey I can agree with that.

#88 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-02-14 07:32 PM | Reply

#84 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

Troofy,

I hate to break it to you - you are NOT a SJW or a progressive. You are a liberal, in the modern (not Jeffersonian) sense of the word. It's unfortunate you don't view that assessment as a compliment, but that is exactly what it is.

#89 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 07:34 PM | Reply

In the '80s we had a law enforcement War On Drugs. We need a new, visionary leader to declare a law enforcement War On Guns. I would vote for such a candidate.

#90 | Posted by moder8 at 2018-02-14 07:34 PM | Reply

Troofy,
I hate to break it to you - you are NOT a SJW or a progressive. You are a liberal, in the modern (not Jeffersonian) sense of the word. It's unfortunate you don't view that assessment as a compliment, but that is exactly what it is.
#89 | Posted by JeffJ a

I hate to break it you Jefe but your perception of a SJW is simply wrong.

#91 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-02-14 07:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

the WoD isn't successful.
bad example.

#92 | Posted by ichiro at 2018-02-14 07:37 PM | Reply

the shooter
www.truthexam.com

#93 | Posted by ichiro at 2018-02-14 07:37 PM | Reply

"No,I dont need to shoot anything up."

Boaz, I was referring to the beta cucks that get sent to the bottom of the social hierarchy the way Nature intended by alpha males like you.

I guess Nature also intended for them to get guns, and get some revenge. That's what you mean by Smith and Wesson made man equal.

#94 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 07:37 PM | Reply

the shooter
www.truthexam.com

#93 | POSTED BY ICHIRO

White. Legal citizen. Trump supporter.

I bet Breitbart is calling it a False Flag event...even though Republicans are currently in charge.

#95 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 07:39 PM | Reply

101CHAIRBORNE,

Still waiting on that genius plan of yours. Come on, buddy.

If its just a mental health issue, where is your plan to combat it? Let's hear it.

Did you run away when you got called out on it?

#96 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 07:42 PM | Reply

#87 - nice one..

#97 | Posted by HeeHaw at 2018-02-14 07:44 PM | Reply

You'll be waiting a long time you disingenuous ----.

#98 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 07:44 PM | Reply

Who's the country with the greatest school shooting record ever? USA USA USA.

#99 | Posted by bayviking at 2018-02-14 07:45 PM | Reply

You'll be waiting a long time you disingenuous ----.

#98 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

I think that would make you the disingenuous ---- actually...

Time to get real. You can't just snap your fingers and fix gun violence by claiming its a mental health issue.

Deal with it.

#100 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 07:45 PM | Reply

Syco...you simply can't help but be a dummy. de Jesus Cruz...another "white"Hispanic.

#101 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 07:47 PM | Reply

Like Zimmerman, that kind of white Hispanic?

Ban white hispanics!

#102 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 07:48 PM | Reply

100
Who said you could snap your fingers and fix gun violence by claiming it's a mental health issue? Be specific.

Again, another example of you being completely unprepared to discuss this. You are literally too stupid to participate in this discussion.

Go chase your tail, mutt.

#103 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 07:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I ---- you not.

Over at Breitbart, commentators are saying the kid is an illegal alien, ISIS sympathizer, not white and is part of ANTIFA.

They are also claiming the information Shep Smith is giving them is from the Illuminist media and debating whether Shep Smith is gay, liberal or both.

#104 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 07:49 PM | Reply

#103 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

Go home, son. You've embarrassed yourself enough today.

#105 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 07:50 PM | Reply

104
Well they seem to be as well equipped to discuss this as you.
Same level of depth.

#106 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 07:51 PM | Reply

104
Well they seem to be as well equipped to discuss this as you.
Same level of depth.

#106 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

Prove to everyone how smart you are.

Give us a plan to significantly reduce these types of incidents by focusing on Mental Health as you said.

#107 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 07:55 PM | Reply

Seriously, you guys have to read the comments on Breitbart. Everything from he's a government plan, to false flag, to government mind controlled, to ANTIFA.

#108 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 07:57 PM | Reply

You poor thing.

#109 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 07:59 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

You poor thing.

#109 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

Everyone is still waiting on your plan, you smart guy you. Come on, prove to them I am the idiot you claim.

#110 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 08:00 PM | Reply

Syco,

You frequent the Breitbart site?

I'm a knuckle-dragger and I don't visit that site.

What is wrong with you?

#111 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 08:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Leave Syco alone Chair, he has lotz of readin to do at Breitbart.

#112 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 08:02 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

#111

Maybe Syco is like one of those Fundie Preachers who, after they got busted, said they were on those gay porn sites doing "opposition research".

#113 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 08:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Syco,
You frequent the Breitbart site?
I'm a knuckle-dragger and I don't visit that site.
What is wrong with you?

#111 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Just the comments section. It is HILARIOUS, man. You have to check it out.

They are as dumb as 101Chair over there. "Oh he's hispanic! Must be a liberal!" Yeah, a GINGER Hispanic kid! Damn kid is whiter than I am and I'm Norwegian!

#114 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 08:05 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

They can simply scroll up and read, ------. It's really simple. You say stupid things, I point them out and rub your face in it. Rinse, repeat.

You've had this pointed out numerous times now and you still can't seem to comprehend it...cuz you're really stupid and il equipped to discuss any of this.

#115 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 08:05 PM | Reply

#111
Maybe Syco is like one of those Fundie Preachers who, after they got busted, said they were on those gay porn sites doing "opposition research".

#113 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

That's it. I'm having sex with male Breitbart posters. You got me!

#116 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 08:06 PM | Reply

#115 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

...still...waiting...on...that...plan...

#117 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 08:07 PM | Reply

Troofy,

A SJW doesn't agitate for true social justice. SWJ berates a white chick for wearing hoop earrings because 'cultural appropriation'. SJW defines hate speech as just about everything SJW disagrees with. SJW defines 'hate speech' as actual violence and thus warrants a physically-violent response.

You are none of that.

Yes, you share political views with SJW on a Venn Diagram. But you are not that inanity. You don't need a 'safe space' when you encounter a Libertarian viewpoint on an issue.

#118 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 08:10 PM | Reply

My prayers go out to the victims and their family and friends.
So sad.

#119 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 08:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Oh he's hispanic! Must be a liberal!" Yeah, a GINGER Hispanic kid! Damn kid is whiter than I am and I'm Norwegian!

Obviously never heard of a pelirojo.

I have to agree with Chair on this one.

#120 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 08:10 PM | Reply

Any word on which of the victims kinda had it coming?

Or is that only a thing when the police shoot someone?

#121 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 08:10 PM | Reply

You'll be waiting a long time, as I already told you.
As if I owe you a plan because you disingenuously asked for one...what a simple Sally.

Now, on the other hand, I'd like to know when somebody said anything about fixing things by snapping fingers. Or was that you desperately making ---- up to save face from that throttling I've been giving you?

#122 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 08:10 PM | Reply

#116

Add Syco to the Reading Comprehension Tutoring class.

Just wow.

#123 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 08:12 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Oh he's hispanic! Must be a liberal!" Yeah, a GINGER Hispanic kid! Damn kid is whiter than I am and I'm Norwegian!
Obviously never heard of a pelirojo.
I have to agree with Chair on this one.

#120 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

We are really stretching this one out... ANYONE to push him away from being the traditional hardcore Conservative, gun toting, pissed off Trump supporter...

#124 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 08:12 PM | Reply

Just the comments section. It is HILARIOUS, man. You have to check it out.
They are as dumb as 101Chair over there. "Oh he's hispanic! Must be a liberal!" Yeah, a GINGER Hispanic kid! Damn kid is whiter than I am and I'm Norwegian!

#114 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

It never occurred to me to check out their comments section for entertainment value or for insight.

You should seriously check out the Facebook thread I created earlier today on the back page. It's incredible how Facebook manipulated technology to create and foster (perhaps unintentionally) the kind of crap you are alluding to.

#125 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 08:13 PM | Reply

You'll be waiting a long time, as I already told you.
As if I owe you a plan because you disingenuously asked for one...what a simple Sally.
Now, on the other hand, I'd like to know when somebody said anything about fixing things by snapping fingers. Or was that you desperately making ---- up to save face from that throttling I've been giving you?

#122 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

You told us this was all a mental health issue that needs to be the focus.

Certainly it can't be the fact that we have more damn guns than people in this country, right?

#126 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 08:14 PM | Reply

"SWJ berates a white chick for wearing hoop earrings because 'cultural appropriation'"

Anyone here that you call SJW ever do that?

Maybe there are No True SJWs here. Is that it?

#127 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 08:14 PM | Reply

LMAO, you are the DRtard that thinks that Hispanic kids can't have red hair. Or are you just being racist?

#128 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 08:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#127 Snoofy

I can think of at least one poster who easily falls into the SJW category, as I've outlined it.

Hint: It's not you.

#129 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 08:16 PM | Reply

De Jesus Cruz is a stereotypical white name...in southern Florida.
Very perceptive, syco

#130 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 08:17 PM | Reply

#129

Oh oh, let me guess:

Starts with Boy...ends with duhh.

Amirite?

#131 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 08:17 PM | Reply

"It never occurred to me to check out their comments section for entertainment value or for insight."

You should read it. As you do notice the tame stuff you agree with. Notice how the tame stuff you agree with serves as a gateway drug to right wing la la land.

#132 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 08:18 PM | Reply

#130

Don't forget, according to Syco's "research", Hispanics can't be Gingers...

#133 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 08:18 PM | Reply

LMAO, you are the DRtard that thinks that Hispanic kids can't have red hair. Or are you just being racist?

#128 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

I know you DESPERATELY want to pull away from the subject. And I get it. You can't really argue everyone should have guns after another mass shooting...

BUT you are trying to hid the point as well. The original point was that this kid was some sort of illegal Hispanic immigrant. He did not resemble your normal Trump supporter. Unfortunately, he is white. Maybe White Hispanic. Maybe Ginger White Hispanic. But as my beautiful Puerto Rican friend says, "Baby, he ain't brown!"

So any racial stuff you want to pile on this incident just ain't gonna fly.

#134 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 08:19 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#130
Don't forget, according to Syco's "research", Hispanics can't be Gingers...

#133 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

Anything you can do to pull attention away from the Ginger White Trump supporter who just murdered his classmates, you keep at it buddy

#135 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 08:19 PM | Reply

"Hispanics can't be Gingers..."

Kind of like Asians can't be minorities.

#136 | Posted by eberly at 2018-02-14 08:20 PM | Reply

Amirite?

#131 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

#137 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 08:21 PM | Reply

De Jesus Cruz is a stereotypical white name...in southern Florida.
Very perceptive, syco

#130 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

Actually, Cruz is also Portuguese and southern French. Let's try not to be racist now. :)

#138 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 08:21 PM | Reply

134
The original point? That's what you're going with?
Was the point made in your post 95?

#139 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 08:22 PM | Reply

Just stop, syco. This has already gotten out of your control.

#140 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 08:23 PM | Reply

Kind of like Asians can't be minorities.

#136 | POSTED BY EBERLY

But they can be "slants".

Do you know what a Chinese person uses for a blindfold?

Dental floss.

When I was a kid my brother got a book called Truly Tasteless Jokes. One of the best/worst was:

Why do Blacks and Mexicans never marry?

Their kids would be too lazy to steal.

#141 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 08:24 PM | Reply

134
The original point? That's what you're going with?
Was the point made in your post 95?

#139 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

Yeah, 104 and 114. As I made fun of Breitbart commentators to come up with ANYTHING to make him less like a typical Trump supporter.

#142 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 08:24 PM | Reply

#134-135

I am not trying to hide anything, and I personally have always been supportive of gun control. I also agree with Chair, not only did this kid have obvious Mental Health issues but it is a pervasive thread through all these shootings, so any solution has to be a combination of both.

Sorry I pimped you on the "hispanic ginger" comments, they were pretty ignorant but I will stop.

#143 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 08:26 PM | Reply

One student told WSBTV that, while he was attending the school, many students joked that Cruz would one day commit an act of violence at the school.

"Honestly, a lot of people were saying that it was going to be him," the student said. "A lot of kids threw around jokes like that, saying 'this is the one that's going to shoot up the school,' but it turns out everyone predicted it. That's crazy."

Cruz reportedly had a pair of Instagram accounts, where he posted a series of photos displaying an assortment of knives and guns.

popculture.com

#144 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-14 08:27 PM | Reply

#144

So sad.

#145 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 08:28 PM | Reply

"He was going class to class just shooting at random kids," he said. "Everything he posts [on social media] is about weapons. It's sick."

Employees at a nearby Dollar Tree told ABC News that Cruz used to work in their store and described him as a loyal responsible employee. They were shocked that Cruz, who they said was a nice kid always who was in a good mood, was implicated in the shooting.

abc11.com

#146 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-14 08:29 PM | Reply

Just stop, syco. This has already gotten out of your control.

#140 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

Glad you agree.

So time for sensible policy for once:

1. Full Federal Background Checks on ALL Gun Sales, including private sales
2. Full Federal Registration of All Firearms renewed annually with updated background check to accompany renewal
3. A Safety Course before being allowed to Purchase a Firearm for the first time with a refresher once every 5-7 years
4. No Firearms for Felons, anyone convicted of Domestic Violence or anyone with Mental Health that lead them to be a danger to themselves or others
5. Limitations on Cartridge Size, Bump Stocks illegal
6. Elimination of PLCAA
7. Severe penalties for violation of firearm regulations
8. Penalty for an owner for losing or having a firearm stolen
9. Liability for owners of lost guns used in crimes if they failed to report the lost gun for a period longer than 12 months

Boom. Problem isn't solved. But that makes a significant dent in firearm homicides in the United States.

Glad I could save the world. I'm going to grill a steak and go to the shooting range.

#147 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 08:33 PM | Reply

Sorry I pimped you on the "hispanic ginger" comments, they were pretty ignorant but I will stop.

#143 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

As one of the few Righties I respect on here and whose posts I actually read carefully and thoughtfully because you usually have some interesting to say, it's all good.

#148 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 08:34 PM | Reply

The Ar-15 has been around for 60+ years. The firearm has not changed. I do not remember shootings in schools happening in schools 50 years ago. What has changed? You need to ask yourselves that question.
The answer to that question is not easy. But the answer is not the Ar-15.
If you think it is you are kidding yourself.

#149 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 08:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"So sad."

Not picking on you, but after seeing Trump use the word "sad" so many times on twitter, I can't read it online anymore and have it mean anything like sad. I need a new word to describe these mass shootings. Tragic comes to mind. Heart-wrenching. In one of the articles I read, it said Cruz's mother had died. Lots of pain and anger inside of him he didn't know how to handle, that's for sure.

#150 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-14 08:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"A SJW doesn't agitate for true social justice. SWJ berates a white chick for wearing hoop earrings because 'cultural appropriation'. SJW defines hate speech as just about everything SJW disagrees with. SJW defines 'hate speech' as actual violence and thus warrants a physically-violent response."

Just the sort of ridiculous strawman we have all come to expect from you.

#151 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-14 08:40 PM | Reply

#148

Shhh, don't say that out loud, they will kick you out of the Cool Kids Club.

#152 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 08:41 PM | Reply

#151

OMG, I just spit my beer all over my keyboard.

Amirite?

#153 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 08:42 PM | Reply

#150 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday
I don't watch the news on TV so I would not of heard that. Just my personal feeling.

#154 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 08:43 PM | Reply

#147

I agree with every point you make, but not sure how you enforce #8, especially since most stolen or lost firearms are never reported. I also think that #10 all States should require background checks for ammo purchases, should be added along with some sensible mental health screening.

#155 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 08:45 PM | Reply

Amirite?

#153 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER AT 2018-02-14 08:42 PM | FLAG:

In my experience, practically never. Although your drinking while posting might explain why you thought Princeton was in California in that other thread....

#156 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-14 08:46 PM | Reply

#149

Any solution to gun massacres will have to involve the guns

St. AR-15 notwithstanding.

#157 | Posted by Zed at 2018-02-14 08:46 PM | Reply

Gal-

I really don't pay attention to Trump's tweets, but I can see how it would trigger that response in some people.

Tragic works as well.

#158 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 08:46 PM | Reply

1. Full Federal Background Checks on ALL Gun Sales, including private sales
2. Full Federal Registration of All Firearms renewed annually with updated background check to accompany renewal
3. A Safety Course before being allowed to Purchase a Firearm for the first time with a refresher once every 5-7 years
4. No Firearms for Felons, anyone convicted of Domestic Violence or anyone with Mental Health that lead them to be a danger to themselves or others
5. Limitations on Cartridge Size, Bump Stocks illegal
6. Elimination of PLCAA
7. Severe penalties for violation of firearm regulations
8. Penalty for an owner for losing or having a firearm stolen
9. Liability for owners of lost guns used in crimes if they failed to report the lost gun for a period longer than 12 months

Canadian perspective:

1. Canada does that.
2. Will never work.
3. Canada does that (assuming you meant "clip" size), without the refresher.
4. Most of that is there already other than the mental health part.
5. Canada has that.
6. I don't know what that is.
7. Canada has that.
8. Canada has that regarding handguns, but only if it turns up in a crime later.
9. Canada has that for handguns, without the time limit.

#159 | Posted by REDIAL at 2018-02-14 08:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#156

Once again, right over Boyduhh's head.

Not surprised in the least.

#160 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 08:47 PM | Reply

"SJW defines 'hate speech' as actual violence"

Like getting in a pig's face and saying "F*** You?"

Now where have I heard that all over a right-wing outrage thread today...

#161 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 08:48 PM | Reply

#157 | Posted by Zed
I have never seen a Firearm commit a crime.

#162 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 08:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Once again, right over Boyduhh's head.
Not surprised in the least.

#160 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER AT 2018-02-14 08:47 PM | FLAG:

Your drinking would also explain your persistently mistaking me for this Boyd person. Maybe cut back a bit?

#163 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-14 08:49 PM | Reply

"A large segment of society worshiping guns and gun culture."

I think this is part of the problem. People in my family own guns, including my nieces. Mostly guns for hunting, but one niece got a handgun for her 21st birthday. She even posted a picture of herself with it on Facebook. One picture. Some of the people in my family belong to gun clubs. That said, none of them are obsessed with guns. They like and use guns, but they don't worship them. They don't think owning guns makes them tough or special.

#164 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-14 08:50 PM | Reply

#162

Never saw a mule plow a field either, I'll bet.

Idiot.

#165 | Posted by Zed at 2018-02-14 08:50 PM | Reply

#161

Right wing outrage tends to be one sided that way.

#166 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-14 08:50 PM | Reply

#161

Typical that you conflate "actual violence" with "threat of violence".

Learn the difference before you "get in a pig's face".

Anyway, we digress.

#167 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 08:50 PM | Reply

Your drinking would also explain your persistently mistaking me for this Boyd person. Maybe cut back a bit?

#163 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

Back when Boyd posted on this site I interacted with him often.

Take this however you wish - you are NOT Boyd.

#168 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 08:51 PM | Reply

"Typical that you conflate "actual violence" with "threat of violence"."

In context (the need to act in self defense), that difference makes no difference at all. But way to make the world safe for the hopelessly obtuse.

#169 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-14 08:53 PM | Reply

Your drinking would also explain your persistently mistaking me for this Boyd person.

Name calling is part of his schtick. Along with self back-patting and the old "I live in your head" thing.

#170 | Posted by REDIAL at 2018-02-14 08:54 PM | Reply

#168

Grand. Spread the word to your fellow backward regressives.

#171 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-14 08:54 PM | Reply

"Typical that you conflate "actual violence" with "threat of violence".

Which one is yelling the words "F*** You" to a cop?
Actual violence, or threat of violence?

#172 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 08:55 PM | Reply

Redial,

Frank Cotton has just been sent to pay you a visit.

I hope it goes well for you.

#173 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 08:55 PM | Reply

#169

Go read the end of the Princeton thread to get context, let's not hijack this thread no matter how much Snoofy wants to.

And I still think you are Boyduhh, since you have almost identical posting styles and SJW nonsense pervading them.

#174 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 08:56 PM | Reply

#173

Tell Frank he is free to "clean up" that rent free space I occupy while he is there.

#175 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 08:58 PM | Reply

164
I've said it here before, but I simply think anyone posing in a pic with a gun has issues.
Same with people and bumper stickers of any kind, but especially gun ones.

Even in the military, I always set it down or hid it. I just don't like the gun pics. It's kind of creepy in a gun glorifying way.

I'm not bagging on your niece because I have a a couple friends that do that stuff and I rip them on it constantly.

I don't want people to know I own one. I don't want people to know when I'm carrying one. If they ask I tell them it's none of their business.

#176 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 08:58 PM | Reply

"The answer to that question is not easy. But the answer is not the Ar-15."

Federalist, I have a serious question for you:

Would you expect the number of school shootings to go up as the number of AR-15s goes up?

#177 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 09:00 PM | Reply

Grand. Spread the word to your fellow backward regressives.

#171 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

Boyd was/is very liberal (in the modern sense of the label).

When it comes to issues the 2 of you would almost perfectly align on a Venn Diagram.

When it comes to demeanor he would absolutely despise your abject bigotry and hatred toward those with whom you disagree.

#178 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 09:00 PM | Reply

And I still think you are Boyduhh, since you have almost identical posting styles and SJW nonsense pervading them.

#174 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

The differences far outweigh the similarities.

Boy-Duh was capable of having a civil discussion with Mao.

Boy-Duh was well-liked by Alexandrite - who is a very reasonable and rational liberal.

#179 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 09:04 PM | Reply

#177

I think they would, which is why I think all assault rifles should not only be banned, but made illegal to own. That won't get them off the streets or even make people turn them in, but will keep them out of gun shows, stores and swap meets, etc. Tracking ammo sales would also help, in that 5.56 Nato or Rem 223 purchases could highlight who may have an AR-15, for example.

#180 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 09:05 PM | Reply

"Go read the end of the Princeton thread to get context"

I'll save you the trip:

"In California it is a crime, since you don't need to actually strike someone to commit an assault, all you need is the threat (which is the attempt) and present ability to commit a violent injury:"

Dovetails nicely into:

"SJW defines 'hate speech' as actual violence"

#181 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 09:07 PM | Reply

#178-79

Both good points, and BoydBadweekCooper couldn't be bothered to set up a sock puppet, he would have just changed his name but used the same account.

But Boyduhh could also be an intolerant bigot who hated people who disagreed with him, so I have to put that in the similarities column.

#182 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 09:09 PM | Reply

Never saw a mule plow a field either, I'll bet.

Idiot.

#165 | Posted by Zed
Nice.
I actually have seen a mule pull a plow.
But a mule unlike a Ar-15 is not an inanimate object.

#183 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 09:10 PM | Reply

#181

"Dovetails" does not not mean "the same as".

Take it to the other thread, attention whore.

#184 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 09:10 PM | Reply

"I think they would, which is why I think all assault rifles should not only be banned, but made illegal to own."

LOL.

#185 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 09:11 PM | Reply

So Zed do you blame vehicles for drunk driving deaths?

#186 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 09:11 PM | Reply

#183

I knew you wouldn't get it.

Mules don't plow fields, farmers plow fields.

#187 | Posted by Zed at 2018-02-14 09:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Zed is a recovering addict. Thats what caused him to find Jesus.

#188 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 09:14 PM | Reply

#186

Do you not think vehicles are involved?

#189 | Posted by Zed at 2018-02-14 09:15 PM | Reply

If only everyone had guns.

#190 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-02-14 09:15 PM | Reply

Again, the differences outweigh the similarities.

One of my favorite Boyd quotes (paraphrased from memory): One night I ran out of smokes, beer and money, all at once.

Boyd acknowledged those whom he respected but disagreed with as "misguided, well-intentioned gentlemen".

On his worst day Boyd's tack was eerily reminiscent of Dirk on his best day.

The overlap ends there.

I liked/like Boyd and he deserves better than being equated with someone I pity.

#191 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 09:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#188

I'm glad CHAIR is talking to me again. I was afraid he was mad at me.

#192 | Posted by Zed at 2018-02-14 09:16 PM | Reply

How's it hanging, CHAIR?

...You still have it, don't you?

#193 | Posted by Zed at 2018-02-14 09:18 PM | Reply

#177 | Posted by snoofy
No.

#194 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 09:18 PM | Reply

There's a quote I remember too...
Boyd's wife.

Man, I miss pinche. I have an old email addy I should try.

#195 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 09:20 PM | Reply

#187 | Posted by Zed
Just like AR-15's do not shoot people.
People shoot people!

#196 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 09:20 PM | Reply

1. Thoughts and prayers!
2. NOW IS NOT THE TIME to politicize this!
3. Hide for a few days from the media
4. Post Facebook photos of random constituents praising me

--GOP Plan in response to any mass shooting--

#197 | Posted by e1g1 at 2018-02-14 09:21 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

Pinche seemed to know every inch of Texas, and just about everything and anything else. His vocabulary was astonishing.

#198 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 09:22 PM | Reply

#187 | Posted by Zed
Your a real funny person. Having fun when children have died.
So proud you must be.

#199 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 09:22 PM | Reply

So Zed do you blame vehicles for drunk driving deaths?
186 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 09:11 PM

So Fed do you know why they put breathalyzer tubes in the cars of chronic drunk drivers?

#200 | Posted by e1g1 at 2018-02-14 09:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"#177 | Posted by snoofy
No."

So you don't think prevalence of the tool's use goes up as the tool itself becomes more widespread?

Why would the tool's prevalence in society grow if it weren't for more people wanting to use it?

Do you think more people fly drones where they're not supposed to now or ten years ago?

#201 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 09:25 PM | Reply

#197 | Posted by e1g1
Blame a inanimate object for a crime.

#202 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 09:25 PM | Reply

There is no such thing as a chronic mass shooter.
Checkmate.

#203 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 09:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Man, I miss pinche. I have an old email addy I should try.

#195 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE A

Pretty sure Goat has his email addy and would be willing to act as a temporary intermediary.

Yeah - that dude was cool.

#204 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 09:28 PM | Reply

Federalist has set an all time record of 5 posts without a Hillary deflection.

This place needs its own awards show.

#205 | Posted by REDIAL at 2018-02-14 09:29 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

"#197 | Posted by e1g1
Blame a inanimate object for a crime."

Federalist, you're okay with Iran having nukes I take it. Nobody ever saw a nuke commit a crime. That whole "Cold War" thing was liberal mass hysteria, yeah?

#206 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 09:29 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

#201 | Posted by snoofy
So where do you fly your drone that your not supposed to?
WTF?
Where is the correlation?
So since there are more Illegals does that correlation follow through with crime?

#207 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 09:30 PM | Reply

#206 | Posted by snoofy
So Snoofy, your Ok with beating your mother I take it.

#208 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 09:32 PM | Reply

#205 | Posted by REDIAL
Who is Hillary?

#209 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 09:33 PM | Reply

#203 | Posted by 101Chairborne
Don't be so fast. This guy is still alive!

#210 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 09:34 PM | Reply

#206 | Posted by snoofy
Do those Nukes launch themselves?

#211 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 09:37 PM | Reply

screw you Boazo and the law-abiding citizens you came in with.

#212 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2018-02-14 09:40 PM | Reply

The parameters at times are stupid. Does America have greater mental instability than the rest of the world? No.

In that case, what differentiates American society? Access to guns, and glorification of gun culture.

Nuts and terrorists shouldn't have access to guns. What about that concept is so difficult to grasp?

#213 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-02-14 09:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Do those Nukes launch themselves?

#211 | POSTED BY FEDERALIST

Only when he strokes them.and you get a premature launch.

#214 | Posted by patron at 2018-02-14 09:41 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

The parameters at times are stupid. Does America have greater mental instability than the rest of the world? No.
Link?

#215 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 09:42 PM | Reply

"Do those Nukes launch themselves?"

Do those guns pull their own triggers?
Obviously not.
So, it's okay for Lil Kim and Ayatollah Kooky to have them, right?

#216 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 09:42 PM | Reply

#214 | Posted by patron
I think that is covered under Obamacare!

#217 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 09:43 PM | Reply

"Do those Nukes launch themselves?" - #211 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 09:37 PM

Actually, there are some that can...

Russia May Still Have An Automated Nuclear Launch System Aimed Across The Northern Hemisphere

[snip] To deter the possibility of a U.S. nuclear first-strike, the Soviets created a system called Perimeter, also known as "Dead Hand."

The Dead Hand was a computer system that could autonomously launch all of the USSR's nuclear weapons once it was activated, across the entirety of the Soviet Union.

#218 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-14 09:43 PM | Reply

Lil Kim and Ayatollah Kooky to have them, right?
Legally in the U.S.? Yes if they follow the existing laws.

#219 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 09:45 PM | Reply

It took me 19 months (and I pulled a favor or two) to get legal access to a handgun. I also spent about $80 to take the class and I think $125 for my prints/background check, and maybe $2-5 for the permit itself.
I laugh when I hear people say how easy it is.
I think you can get a rifle or shotgun in 24 hours though.
Pistols and rifles/shotguns take 10 days in California. Don't know the costs.

#220 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-14 09:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#218 | Posted by Hans
Nice try Hans but "once it was activated" is the key part.
Let me know when a firearm can be activated legally without a finger.

#221 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 09:48 PM | Reply

Well, skimming this thread it seems to be the standard post-mass shooting material. Am I right?

I'm a firearm owner and even I'm getting to where something has to be done.

#222 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-14 09:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#220 | Posted by 101Chairborne
The CNN army has no idea what is going on. One of the biggest responsibilities of my life was getting the right to legally own a firearm. I have more responsibility and anything I do wrong can take away all my firearms and loose all my investment in them.

#223 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 09:52 PM | Reply

When it comes to demeanor he would absolutely despise your abject bigotry and hatred toward those with whom you disagree.

#178 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-14 09:00 PM | FLAG:

Oh look, the clown doesn't know what "bigotry" means (or pretends not to).

#224 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-14 09:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Nice try Hans but "once it was activated" is the key part." - #221 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 09:48 PM

Must have missed this part:

autonomously launch all of the USSR's nuclear weapons
Nice try.

But it doesn't fit your "narrative."

Do I need to define autonomously for you?

#225 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-14 09:55 PM | Reply

One of the biggest responsibilities of my life was getting the right to legally own a firearm.

Springsteen wrote a song about that... forget what it was called.

#226 | Posted by REDIAL at 2018-02-14 09:57 PM | Reply

"One of the biggest responsibilities of my life was getting the right to legally own a firearm." - #223 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 09:52 PM

Here's hoping you have no children.

Or even a pet.

#227 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-14 09:57 PM | Reply

"One of the biggest responsibilities of my life was getting the right to legally own a firearm."

I don't have one so I struggle with imagining that owning a firearm ranks up there with my career, my house, my kids, marriage, etc.

#228 | Posted by eberly at 2018-02-14 10:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

Do I have to define "once it was activated" to you?

#229 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 10:02 PM | Reply

"One of the biggest responsibilities of my life was getting the right to legally own a firearm."

You lost that right at some point?
That would explain a lot about you.

#230 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 10:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#228 | Posted by eberly
How does your question change the narrative? The key word in legal.

#231 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 10:03 PM | Reply

"I don't have one so I struggle with imagining that owning a firearm ranks up there with my career, my house, my kids, marriage, etc." - #228 | Posted by eberly at 2018-02-14 10:01 PM

Wish I had more than a single NW flag for that one, Eb.

Kudos.

#232 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-14 10:04 PM | Reply

#227 | Posted by Hans
Do you understand one of?

#233 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 10:05 PM | Reply

"Go read the end of the Princeton thread to get context, let's not hijack this thread no matter how much Snoofy wants to."

Context? You quoted California law on a thread about Princeton. This means you a) think that Princeton is in California or b) were making a hilarious non-sequitur.
Either confirms you as a slack-jawed idiot.

#234 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-14 10:05 PM | Reply

"Do you understand one of?" - #233 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 10:05 PM

A "one of"?

Does anyone here have a gibberish-to-English translator available?

#235 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-14 10:08 PM | Reply

"Context? You quoted California law on a thread about Princeton. This means you a) think that Princeton is in California or b) were making a hilarious non-sequitur.
Either confirms you as a slack-jawed idiot. "

I thought RoC was pointing out that in CA what the student did would have been considered a crime. I didn't know that it could be a considered a crime anywhere, so I was interested in the information.

#236 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-14 10:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#235 | Posted by Hans
Do you have anything positive to say? Any sympathy for the victims?

#237 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 10:24 PM | Reply

Do you not think vehicles are involved?

#189 | Posted by Zed
Ah yes!

#238 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 10:25 PM | Reply

"Context? You quoted California law on a thread about Princeton. This means you a) think that Princeton is in California or b) were making a hilarious non-sequitur.
Either confirms you as a slack-jawed idiot. "

Also, if you want to talk about context, RoC was responding to my post, in which I referred to how I would feel in that situation:

"Was it a crime, what that student did?"

No crime. It's not the words, but the student getting within inches of my face and shouting the words that I would have found intimidating and as potentially a threat of physical violence.

In California it is a crime, since you don't need to actually strike someone to commit an assault, all you need is the threat (which is the attempt) and present ability to commit a violent injury:
California Penal Code ...
#133 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 03:40 PM | Reply

I live in the state of NY, and I have friends who teach here and also in other states, so as I said, this new info was of interest to me. What's the law in other states? I don't know, but at least now I know to ask the question instead of just assuming it wouldn't be a crime.

#239 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-14 10:27 PM | Reply

Another registered Florida Democrat gone amuck.

#240 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 10:41 PM | Reply

Well, skimming this thread it seems to be the standard post-mass shooting material. Am I right?
#222 | POSTED BY JPW

You are. 200+ posts and not one single new argument.

#241 | Posted by REDIAL at 2018-02-14 11:05 PM | Reply

I almost posted a thing asking what kind of clip they put in the magazine of their assault weapon style rifle, so yeah, same ---- different day.

School shootings are normal now. Thanks Obama.

#242 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 11:12 PM | Reply

"Another registered Florida Democrat gone amuck."

A Democrat who wore a Trump hat?:

Ocean Parodie, a 17-year-old student at Broward County school, told The Daily Beast, "I knew him to be passive aggressive but not violent. He was rude to people. He had an act up like he was tough. He never got into, like, physical fights with anyone, but he did get into verbal arguments. I just thought he dropped out of school, I didn't think he would do anything. He always kept a low profile."

Parodie added, "He was definitely not accepted at our school socially. People saw him as someone who was different than the normal people at our school." She said he "seemed really extreme" and "liked hating on" Islam, making offensive jokes and deriding Muslims as "terrorists and bombers." She added that she had seen him wearing a Trump hat.

Cruz began using a new Instagram page in 2017, which has also been deleted, but has been confirmed to belong to him by Heavy. In that page, @nikolascruzmakarov, he is wearing a Donald Trump campaign "Make America Great Again" hat. Makarov is the name of a Russian-made pistol.

heavy.com

#243 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-14 11:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

JPW to highlight your point, your comment
'I'm a firearm owner and even I'm getting to where something has to be done."
Got two Newsworthy flags, but nobody has thought of anything to actually do.

My idea is currently illegal barring a Constitutional Amendment, so I just accept these events as The Price We Pay For Your Stupid Freedom.
(Not you personally, you along with all the other millions of gun owners who refuse to quit.)
I don't have other ideas that address guns directly, moving on, though, I favor vastly expanded health care that you don't have to sign up for, you just get for being an American. I do think that would move the needle. I can't think of too much else. Part of the problem is so much of this will have to happen at the state level, so there's not going to be a uniform response. Laboratories of democracy and all that, though from a public health perspective it's basically an ongoing Tuskege Experiment that only makes the news when they run the experiment in a school. Again, back to that pesky Constitution.

#244 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 11:19 PM | Reply

"We the People..."

We can do anything we choose to do.

Right now we choose dead children

#245 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-02-14 11:23 PM | Reply

School shootings are normal now.

Not really. They are just not unheard of.

#246 | Posted by REDIAL at 2018-02-14 11:26 PM | Reply

Regarding the whole Hispanic/Ginger debate:

"Cruz was adopted by his parents, Roger and Lynda Cruz, as a young child, a family member told ABC News. Both of his adopted parents are dead. Lynda Cruz died last year, ABC News reports. An obituary shows she died in November."

heavy.com

#247 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-14 11:27 PM | Reply

"Cruz was adopted by his parents, Roger and Lynda Cruz, as a young child, a family member told ABC News"

Ban Adoption!

#248 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 11:30 PM | Reply

"School shootings are normal now.
Not really. They are just not unheard of."

Good point.
Shootings are normal now. Commonplace. An everyday occurrence.

#249 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 11:31 PM | Reply

So, it seems Cruz was adopted by an Hispanic couple. He hated Muslims (read the article for that bit), wanted to kill terrorists and was a Trump supporter. He also said he was bullied and that no one in authority at the school did anything about it. His classmates who were interviewed mostly thought he was troubled, odd, a loner, someone who didn't fit in.

#250 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-14 11:35 PM | Reply

"Right now we choose dead children"

They don't see it that way.
They see it as gun lovers choose their guns, and the fact that this is orders of magnitude more common in America (among peer nations) is unrelated to the greater prevalence of guns; unrelated to the absence of gun control measures fond in peer nations.

#251 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 11:35 PM | Reply

"He also said he was bullied and that no one in authority at the school did anything about it."

So Boaz was right!
I knew there was something to what he was saying.
Good eye Boaz.

#252 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 11:36 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

As deadly as this shooting was, it potentially could have been a lot worse:

"He was psycho, for sure," a student who knew Cruz told WPLG-TV. "He was crazy because he liked to kill small things, like little animals -- frogs and other animals like that and he just had a crazy mind. He was racist and he was just crazy."

Police received a tip that the suspect was possibly watching videos on Youtube about how to make bombs, according to police scanner transmissions. Police were searching the building as a precaution after learning about that information, but it is not known if there were any bombs left in the school.

#253 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-14 11:38 PM | Reply

You can see Cruz's photo wearing his MAGA hat with a red, white and blue handkerchief/scar covering his face:

heavy.com

#254 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-14 11:41 PM | Reply

Police received a tip that the suspect was possibly watching videos on Youtube about how to make bombs

If bombs were easy to make these nuts would't be using guns all the time.

#255 | Posted by REDIAL at 2018-02-14 11:46 PM | Reply

"My prayers go out to the victims and their family and friends.
So sad.
#119 | Posted by Federalist at 2018-02-14 08:10 PM"

Don't forget "thoughts", too!

Have we had enough?

#256 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2018-02-15 12:37 AM | Reply

When I told a friend today about these shootings, which he had yet to hear about, the first thing he did was express regret about the killings. The second thing he said was, "There but for the grace of God go I" (he's a teacher). Then, as a sign of the politically divided times we live in, the third thing he said was, "I hope it was a Trump supporter." To which I responded, "Well, I at least hope it wasn't a Hillary or Bernie supporter, because we'll never hear the end of it."

#257 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-15 12:40 AM | Reply

"#4 & 7

Kids have died and you freaks can only post spin that fits your narrative.

Disgusting.
#9 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-14 04:34 PM"

Apparently, now is not the time.

So, when IS the right time?

*sigh*

#258 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2018-02-15 12:45 AM | Reply

Hard to say how many of these rumors are true, but I wouldn't be surprised if Cruz had been abusive to his ex:

Student Daniel Huerfano told Fox News that Nikolas Cruz "was that weird kid that you see ... like a loner." Another girl told Fox that Cruz was allegedly "expelled last year after fighting with his ex-girlfriend's new boyfriend. She said Cruz was abusive to the girl."

heavy.com

#259 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-15 12:46 AM | Reply

The response to school shootings has become to forget they happened within a week. No one does anything.

Arm teachers? Teachers are now responsible to kill students?

Nope. Nothing is going to change.

"Just seven weeks into 2018, there have been eight shootings that have resulted in injury or death."

#260 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-02-15 12:58 AM | Reply

Also, if you want to talk about context, RoC was responding to my post, in which I referred to how I would feel in that situation:

Thanks for explaining the proper context my post Gal, something that the Reading Comprehension Optional gang of Goofy, Troofy, Dorky, DBoy and now, apparently, Quirky have predictably failed to comprehend.

However, we can't expect too much from Five of the Seven Mental Dwarves. I can't wait until Donny and Indy join the mix.

#261 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 12:59 AM | Reply

Apparently, now is not the time.

So, when IS the right time?

*sigh*

Minutes after the shooting...not the right time.

These freaks couldn't wait to unleash their hatred.

As you can see, hours later we are all discussing it.

It's unfortunate that had to be explained to you.

#262 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 01:01 AM | Reply

As you can see, hours later we are all discussing it.

There's no discussion, there's only the same old lame tired ignorance and emotion exhibited in these threads for years. JPW noted it above.

I am an ardent supporter of the Second Amendment but I too am tiring of this s--t. But frankly, I don't purport to know the answer unlike many here that declare the answer but don't appear to have the first clue about guns, their lawful owners or the law.

I've argued against many of the gun control proposals offered here and in Congress. In doing so I've sometimes cited a guidance for courts written by Eugene Volokh post-Heller.

Here's the kicker, the guidance is a fairly sober analysis of "what to do." It s--t cans many of the "this'll work" arguments but supports others. Never once has any of the "I know, I know" freaks mentioned that guidance. Ever. I guess, a hundred pages is too much werk.

So much for discussion.

#263 | Posted by et_al at 2018-02-15 01:58 AM | Reply

"I am an ardent supporter of the Second Amendment but I too am tiring of this s--t. But frankly, I don't purport to know the answer"

Well, it seems like you might not be in utter denial about the direct linkage between the Amendment and the s--t.
Which, frankly, is more than I can say for most Second Amendment enthusiasts.
In other words, the answer is kind of right there in front of you...

#264 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 02:29 AM | Reply

The only answer in front of me is an Australian type ban. That ain't gonna fly. You know why.

#265 | Posted by et_al at 2018-02-15 02:39 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Minutes after the shooting...not the right time.
These freaks couldn't wait to unleash their hatred.
As you can see, hours later we are all discussing it.
It's unfortunate that had to be explained to you.
#262 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER AT 2018-02-15 01:01 AM"

RIF

Precisely as I stated:

‘Apparently, now is not the time.

So, when IS the right time?

*sigh*'

So, do you have an answer to the question?

Sorry that had to be explained to you.

#266 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2018-02-15 02:40 AM | Reply

#266

When? Now. Can you do it? Or are you just another freak squeaking about "when."

#267 | Posted by et_al at 2018-02-15 02:46 AM | Reply

It's pretty clear that the NRA opposes any gun-control legislation on "slippery-slope" grounds. It also appears clear that the NRA has most legislators in a vise grip. So how to break that NRA stranglehold?

Maybe it's time to monitor all legislation opposed or proposed by the NRA -- and then send each of our own legislators, regardless of party affiliation, a letter saying simply: "If you vote with the NRA on even one of these measures, I will never vote for you again." And, when he/she does anyway, actually send the letter saying "Now I will never vote for you again." And then actually don't ever vote for that legislator again -- regardless of party. Rinse and repeat with each new legislator we get.

A team of researchers from Columbia University found that only one in three adult Americans owns a gun. (injuryprevention.bmj.com)

So, it eems to me that, if we really want to bad enough, the other two-thirds of us could eventually wrest control of our legislatures away from the NRA sending such ultimatum letters -- and then actually voting in accordance therewith.

#268 | Posted by nimbleswitch at 2018-02-15 02:53 AM | Reply

"The only answer in front of me is an Australian type ban. That ain't gonna fly. You know why."

As best I can tell, the only reason it won't fly is because you and millions like you oppose it.
In other words, I'm ready for an Australian type ban, but you're not.
Let's just be clear on why it ain't gonna fly: You won't let it.

#269 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 03:20 AM | Reply

"I am an ardent supporter of the Second Amendment"

Why is that exactly? Do you believe fairytales about using private arms to resist a hypothetical oppressive government or foreign invasion? Or are you just one of those inconsiderate souls whose motto is "let society drown in blood, so long as I can keep my (ugly, violent) hobby?"

#270 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 03:22 AM | Reply

#269

If you expect rightists to take a little responsibility for their role in this problem, you have a hell of a wait ahead of you...

#271 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 03:24 AM | Reply

"#266
When? Now. Can you do it? Or are you just another freak squeaking about "when."
#267 | POSTED BY ET_AL AT 2018-02-15 02:46 AM"

?

Now is the time to have a discussion (if that is what you are referring to. It is what I was referring to.).

Or are you just another freak squeaking?

Take a breath Et Al. It'll help move the discussion along rather than just providing a soap box for you to preen yourself. You have much to contribute to the discourse. Don't stoop to simplistic sniping. It doesn't become you.

#272 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2018-02-15 04:41 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

18 school shootings in 45 days. In exchange for blood money Marco Rubio and Rick Scott have done everything they could to make it easy for 19 year olds to purchase AR15s. What legal use does any minor, or adult for that matter, have for such a weapon? Republicans have blood on their hands. Like Rubio and Scott, Trump's first sponsor is the NRA, whom he is obedient to. The party on the wrong side of every issue.

#273 | Posted by bayviking at 2018-02-15 06:19 AM | Reply

#149, FED,

Its a lie to say that the AR-15 has been readily available for the last 60 years. Laws vary by State but for the most part such weapons were restricted until the nineties and are the weapon of choice for deranged kids bent on shooting up a school where they didn't get along. 1.5 million AR-15s were sold last year and 6 million cars. This weapon makes killing easier and like handguns have no purpose other than to kill people. Loose Republican laws which provide these weapons to everybody are to blame.

#274 | Posted by bayviking at 2018-02-15 06:29 AM | Reply

They were not restricted at all. All that happened was patent expiration and more companies made them. Semi auto mag get carbines date back to pre ww2. You could buy them out of magazines.

#275 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-02-15 06:32 AM | Reply

Republicans speak in incomplete sentences. When they say "their thoughts and prayers are with the victims", what goes unsaid is their souls and bank account remain with the NRA.

The Australian law and plan has worked.

#276 | Posted by bayviking at 2018-02-15 06:36 AM | Reply

#275, sitz,

officially, the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act -- is a subsection of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, a United States federal law that included a prohibition on the manufacture for civilian use of certain semi-automatic firearms. Then, 77% of Americans support a ban on the manufacture, sale, and possession of assault rifles. Today, a majority of politicians don't care.

Senator Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., holds an AR-15 assault-style rifle with a collapsible stock during a Capitol Hill news conference Friday, March 22, 1996 after the House voted to repeal the two-year-old law...

Along with more than 20 fellow Senate Democrats, Feinstein announced on Wednesday the re-introduction of a bill to ban so-called "assault weapons" and those bump stocks that took so much of the blame for ...

Adding the caveat, except for target practice, there are NO LEGAL USES for assault rifles, or handguns for that matter. Hunting rifles and shotguns alone should be sold to the public and even there they should be forbidden until a safety course is completed and background check completed. Shotguns are useful for mass killings.

Vote out those Politicians who prefer blood money over civil society, even as they pretend to offer their prayers and thoughts.

#277 | Posted by bayviking at 2018-02-15 06:55 AM | Reply

You left out the grandfather clause. That segmented the market into pre and post ban. ARs, SKS, etc, and high capacity magazines were readily available during the entire AWB.

#278 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-02-15 06:59 AM | Reply

Also, the Obama ATF ruled on bump stocks. Not once, but twice. Links to the ATF's responding text, ensuring their legality, can be found easily with a quick web search.

#279 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-02-15 07:00 AM | Reply

18 school shootings in 45 days.

20 years after Columbine? That many this year? Well then, there's never going to be a time that's not too soon to talk, is there? Nothing to fix this has happened so far'.

They were not restricted at all.

Given so many of my friends have them, did the cost come down on them with all the patents expiring?

#280 | Posted by YAV at 2018-02-15 08:26 AM | Reply

#279 - Congress makes the laws. Slavery was legal once, too.

#281 | Posted by YAV at 2018-02-15 08:27 AM | Reply

(technically isn't slavery still legal?)

#282 | Posted by YAV at 2018-02-15 08:28 AM | Reply

So Boaz was right!
I knew there was something to what he was saying.
Good eye Boaz.

#252 | Posted by snoofy

I cant tell if you are being sarcastic or not. :)

But #73 could be seen coming. While I want to do something about this school violence, banning weapons isnt the answer.

I remember High School. I wasnt the "cool" kid, but I was popular. The cool kids knew who I was, I just didnt hang with them. Everything changed when I got to college. In college they were more mature and it just opened a whole new world.

What we are dealing with is a child's inability to socially adjust or in simple terms, play his role. Teenagers, in a school setting, are paternalistic, especially males. There is a social structure. Being at the bottom of that social structure isnt fun. But we tell our kids "You are special", or, "You are just as cool as those kids". But we are setting them up for failure. Some kids are just not going to be able to be "one of the cool kids". Sure, we can force other kids to acknowledge the loners or even stop them when they get into altercations with other kids.

But acceptance is the name of the game. Kids are mean, brutal and selfish today. We, as adults, may say "dont say that about that kid", but our kids, when in private with other kids, say it anyway.

Again, it's acceptance that's pushing all this. Everyone wants attention. Everyone wants acceptance. Not all kids are getting it. And getting it from parents isnt enough. This is a socialization issue and we arent teaching our kids how to understand where they fit in a social fabric.

#283 | Posted by boaz at 2018-02-15 08:35 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

(technically isn't slavery still legal?)

Posted by YAV at 2018-02-15 08:28 AM | Reply

Yep prison labor.

#284 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-15 08:42 AM | Reply

"Tomi Lahren‏ @TomiLahren

Can the Left let the families grieve for even 24 hours before they push their anti-gun and anti-gunowner agenda? My goodness. This isn't about a gun it's about another lunatic. #FloridaShooting"

No, it's about another lunatic in a country that glories gun culture, is awash in a sea of guns and has a gun lobby, the NRA that intimidates politicians and heavily funds their campaigns. Context matters. Every country has its share of lunatics, but not every country worships guns they way we do and has such easy access to them. Not every country has a gun lobby as powerful as the NRA, which, btw, now has ties to the Kremlin. Putin doesn't allow his own citizens to possesses guns the way we do, but he supports the people in our country who prevent us from doing anything about gun violence in our schools, churches and concert halls. Why? Because that serves his underlying purpose of destroying democracies around the world, preferably from within.

#285 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-15 08:48 AM | Reply

Boaz, that's about the wisest most empathetic thing I've ever seen you post here. While I disagree that weapons originally designed as lethal killing devices meant for war should be so prolific throughout civil society, your other points and observations are largely spot on. I find myself wishing that I would have had the courage to seek out the lonely and invisible students and brought them into our circles and helped them to feel their lives and presence mattered because I know now each of us has something to add in the tapestry of life.

People (kids and adults) can be cruel to each other because we're so insecure in our own true value as human beings. In the proper settings, if all of us could approach and interact with each other simply as we are - while respecting our differences - all our lives could be so much better and more fulfilling. We would celebrate the successes of everyone, not just ourselves, and we could find support for life's inevitable travails through the strength of others that we know as friends, nominally dealing with many of the same issues we all share in common.

#286 | Posted by tonyroma at 2018-02-15 08:51 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

purpose of destroying democracies

Owning a weapon doesnt destroy a democracy. Taking it away does. You make the point that Putin doesnt let his people own a gun. Is Russia a democracy?

#287 | Posted by boaz at 2018-02-15 08:53 AM | Reply

Given so many of my friends have them, did the cost come down on them with all the patents expiring?

#280 | POSTED BY YAV AT 2018-02-15 08:26 AM | REPLY

No, adjusted for inflation the average price of an AR is the same as it was in 1994. There have seen significant, temporary spikes due to panic buying induced scarcity, but those have stabilized years ago.

#288 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-02-15 08:58 AM | Reply

Again, it's acceptance that's pushing all this. Everyone wants attention. Everyone wants acceptance. Not all kids are getting it. And getting it from parents isnt enough. This is a socialization issue and we arent teaching our kids how to understand where they fit in a social fabric.

#283 | Posted by boaz at 2018-02-15 08:35 AM | Reply | Flag:

Oh BS it's not acceptance that's the problem. It's about Parents not doing their damned job raising their kids right. I was treated horribly in school HORRIBLY!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't pull a columbine or a Sandy Hook because I had parents that cared. I also had a safety net at school too. We had a school shooting in the town west of Wichita when I was in middle school. I made the comment in class I didn't blame him any. Within 30 minutes of making that statement I was in the schools principal's office with 3 councelors and the cops asking me if I was ok. Was I thinking about doing the same thing. People don't want to do what needs to be done to prevent this stuff. Oh and gun controi could help as well.

#289 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-15 09:09 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Owning a weapon doesnt destroy a democracy. Taking it away does. You make the point that Putin doesnt let his people own a gun. Is Russia a democracy?"

Reread what I said:

"Putin doesn't allow his own citizens to possesses guns the way we do, but he supports the people in our country who prevent us from doing anything about gun violence in our schools, churches and concert halls. Why? Because that serves his underlying purpose of destroying democracies around the world, preferably from within."

Putin isn't supporting a group that supports responsible gun ownership. He is supporting a group that tells us there is nothing that can be done about gun violence except to increase the number of guns in our country. Now some people want armed teachers in every classroom. What's next? Armed priests and preachers in every church. More guns don't make us safer. If it did, we'd be the safest country in the world. What can destroy a democracy is internal strife. The more intense and the more violent that strife is from Putin's perspective, the better.

#290 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-15 09:09 AM | Reply

-- Not every country has a gun lobby as powerful as the NRA, which, btw, now has ties to the Kremlin

lol. You conspiracy crackpots can tie any subject to Russia.

#291 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-02-15 09:10 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"lol. You conspiracy crackpots can tie any subject to Russia."

The Kremlin has been cozying up to the NRA during the past few years.

#292 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-15 09:15 AM | Reply

I really never got that involved with high school drama. School is just what I had to do before I went to work. 3 to 11 every day pumping gas. I dwelt with adults, some marginal, some outright failures, some very cool. I really learned much more at work than I ever did in school. Little things, such as mistakes have consequences. One stupid move can screw up your life permanently. Going to war was about as glorious as being the guest of honer at a gang rape. Lush habits have heavy bills, and you always pay. During the early 70s just about everyone I knew had a gun, most had several. I learned to shoot a rifle at school in JROTC and no one had ever attacked a school to shoot up everyone in sight. The absence or presence of firearms are not the problem, they have always been around. Adolescents being cruel are nor the problem, they are and will always be jerks that eventually find out that they are not at all special or privileged or "cool". The artificial and endemic isolation caused by social media and computer games that put kids in front of a screen for hours is the variable. When I was young, we played out side with real people. Kids do not do that much any more. Build a world where every thing you feel and every thing you do is important, divorce yourself from reality and maybe you might feel you have the need to do something terrible, just because.

#293 | Posted by docnjo at 2018-02-15 09:17 AM | Reply

Senator seeks documents on Russia money links to the NRA
www.nydailynews.com

Why has the NRA been cozying up to Russia?
The Right to Bear Arms in Moscow enjoys a close relationship with America's leading gun-rights group.
thinkprogress.org

The Trump-Russia-NRA Connection: Here's What You Need to Know
www.rollingstone.com

FBI investigates whether Russia banker used NRA to fund Trump campaign – report
www.theguardian.com

NRA Member Invited Trump To Kremlin On Behalf of Putin, According To Report
www.newsweek.com

#294 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-15 09:21 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"I learned to shoot a rifle at school in JROTC"

If this reporting is true, maybe that's where the killer learned to shoot too:

Cruz appeared to have been involved in the high school's Junior Reserve Officers' Training Corps (JROTC) program, as his name was listed under several awards in 2016, including academic achievement for maintaining an A grade in JROTC and B in remaining academic subjects, consistently presenting an outstanding appearance and outstanding conduct throughout school.

www.cnn.com

#295 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-15 09:26 AM | Reply

I would like to say this NEVER HAPPENS in countries which take care of every child, make them feel they are valued. Except is happened once in Norway. None the less, school violence is completely out of control, as is access to military style weaponry. One obvious problem is a great many children KNOW FOR CERTAIN, that their Government doesn't give a ---- about them. That is the attitude of Trump, Ryan, Scott, Rubio and hundreds of other politicians who put their personal ambitions before the safety of children in our schools. They are disgusting. Scott refused to answer the question of what business a 19 year old has with owning an AR-15. Scott and Rubio have done everything in their power to make it easy to own and use.

#296 | Posted by bayviking at 2018-02-15 09:31 AM | Reply

#296 | Posted by bayviking, When I was 18 I owned a M1 Carbine- It cost me 80 bucks and I had three 20 round magazens. Semiautomatic military grade weapon legally bought at a local pawn shop. The gun is not the problem any more than owning a hammer. Ether can kill someone. The difference is why do these jerks want to kill? An individual has to spend a lot of time alone to get this twisted.

#297 | Posted by docnjo at 2018-02-15 09:45 AM | Reply

Good post # 297

#298 | Posted by boaz at 2018-02-15 09:55 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

It's about Parents not doing their damned job raising their kids right. ~ Laura

Good proposition, but in most every form Liberals aren't about discipline. We take away the right of parents to swat their kids when they need to be swatted, we enable the parents to divorce easily, because they don't like each other. They don't see their father, tend to live in poverty.

The chidren of divorced parents have emotional scares, they tend to be anti social (Andrew J. Cherlin, Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage; Harvard University Press 1981) less liked by their peers. Because during a formative time when they should have been being socialized by their parents, they are a playing card in a divorce.

Then discipline goes out the window as the parents feel guilty ....

I don't know if this shooter comes from a broken home, but I bet he does .....

Can We Discuss Divorce's Contribution to School Shootings?
As Wilcox observes, "From shootings at MIT (i.e., the Tsarnaev brothers) to the University of Central Florida to the Ronald E. McNair Discovery Learning Academy in Decatur, Ga., nearly every shooting over the last year [2013] in Wikipedia's ‘list of U.S. school attacks' involved a young man whose parents divorced or never married in the first place."
thefederalist.com

#299 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2018-02-15 10:06 AM | Reply

"The gun is not the problem any more than owning a hammer." - #297 | Posted by docnjo at 2018-02-15 09:45 AM

Perhaps you missed it, but hammers are not specifically designed to kill people.

Guns are.

You're welcome.

#300 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-15 10:09 AM | Reply

Cruz and his brother were adopted. His father died about a decade ago from a heart attack, and his mother died in November from complications after having the flu (pneumonia).

#301 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-15 10:11 AM | Reply

If you expect rightists to take a little responsibility for their role in this problem, you have a hell of a wait ahead of you...

#271 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

I realize SJWs tend to believe they can live in the world they want instead of the one that exists, but in reality if ever "righty" but one supported a ban it would only take the last one to sue on Constitutional grounds to tank it.

You know this. Or at least you should.

But you just wanted to post some self-righteous snark, virtue signal if you will.

Which is equally part of the problem.

#302 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 10:14 AM | Reply

Putin doesn't allow his own citizens to possesses guns the way we do, but he supports the people in our country who prevent us from doing anything about gun violence in our schools, churches and concert halls. Why? Because that serves his underlying purpose of destroying democracies around the world, preferably from within.

#285 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY

I think you need to take a step back for a day or two.

#303 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 10:19 AM | Reply

I realize SJWs tend to believe they can live in the world they want instead of the one that exists, but in reality if ever "righty" but one supported a ban it would only take the last one to sue on Constitutional grounds to tank it.
You know this. Or at least you should.
But you just wanted to post some self-righteous snark, virtue signal if you will.
Which is equally part of the problem.

#302 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2018-02-15 10:14 AM | REPLY

If every rightist but one supported change, then the constitution could be amended or the composition of the courts changes such as to allow change and that last holdout would be overruled. But by all means, pretend like this issue isn't your fault.

And raising awareness of the nature of a problem isn't virtue signaling: it is an actual virtue. No sjock you can't see the difference (who uses SJW as an insult anyway?).

#304 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 10:20 AM | Reply

Perhaps you missed it, but hammers are not specifically designed to kill people.
Guns are.
You're welcome.

#300 | POSTED BY HANS

Perhaps you missed it.

Banning guns doesn't figure out why our society is breeding homicidal mass murderers at an alarming rate.

#305 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 10:27 AM | Reply

This kid had socialization issues. It wasn't the gun. I know that's hard for you liberals to understand. The kid needs to be addressed here, not the gun.

#306 | Posted by boaz at 2018-02-15 10:27 AM | Reply

#300 | Posted by Hans, Be sure to put your red lite out on your porch proclaiming that you are not in possession of a firearm. Yes, guns are designed to kill, and some individuals desperately need killing. Would you have a problem with a woman defending herself from a potential rapist with a hand gun? Would you have a problem with an individual defending himself/herself from a home invasion with a shotgun? Would you have a problem with any individual defending themselves from an assault or robbery with the simple appearance of a fire arm? This happens every day, much more often than mass shootings.

#307 | Posted by docnjo at 2018-02-15 10:28 AM | Reply

Perhaps you missed it, but hammers are not specifically designed to kill people.

#300 | POSTED BY HANS

Citation needed Hans

I can't prove it, but I'm pretty dam sure the first hammer ever invented was to kill an animal, then a human. Then it was changed for specific task like nails etc.....

#308 | Posted by PinkyanTheBrain at 2018-02-15 10:29 AM | Reply

The kid needs to be addressed here, not the gun.

#306 | Posted by boaz at 2018-02-15 10:27 AMFlag: (Choose)FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusive

Rationality dictates that both are addressed.

#309 | Posted by Zed at 2018-02-15 10:29 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

This happens every day, much more often than mass shootings.

#307 | Posted by docnjo at 2018-02-15 10:28 AMFlag: (Choose)FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusive

What's the math? Do the number of people saved by guns out-number the number murdered by guns?

Seems to be a question that gets to the crux of the matter.

#310 | Posted by Zed at 2018-02-15 10:31 AM | Reply

If every rightist but one supported change, then the constitution could be amended or the composition of the courts changes such as to allow change and that last holdout would be overruled.

This is as beautifully naive and ignorant as I was hoping you would be when I cast the bait.

Your discounting special interest money, the history of 2nd amendment case law that WILL be considered when rendering a decision and are instead advocating for judicial activism.

As already noted, you are part of the problem.

And raising awareness of the nature of a problem isn't virtue signaling: it is an actual virtue.

Except you're just a bloviating douche.

God you have a seriously over inflated view of your role in the world.

#311 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 10:31 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I think you need to take a step back for a day or two."

Guns and religion: How American conservatives grew closer to Putin's Russia
www.washingtonpost.com

The Kremlin and GOP Have a New Friend -- and Boy, Does She Love Guns
Depending on who's asking, Maria Butina is either a Russian central bank staffer, a gun rights advocate, or a connection between D.C. Republicans and Russia.
www.thedailybeast.com

#312 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-15 10:36 AM | Reply

Oh look, the clown doesn't know what "bigotry" means (or pretends not to).

#224 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN AT 2018-02-14 09:54 PM

big·ot·ry
ˈbiɡətrē/Submit
noun
intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.

Ex: Dirkstruan

#313 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 10:43 AM | Reply

Guns should be regulated and restricted in the same way abortions are.

#314 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-15 10:43 AM | Reply

#312 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY

In Jan's voice:

Russia did this, Russia did that...Russia Russia Russia!

#315 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 10:54 AM | Reply

#331

None of which would matter if most conservatives wanted change. That is just the fact.

#316 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 10:57 AM | Reply

It's pretty clear that the NRA opposes any gun-control legislation on "slippery-slope" grounds. It also appears clear that the NRA has most legislators in a. Vice grip. So how to break that NRA stranglehold?

Maybe it's time to monitor all legislation opposed or proposed by the NRA -- and then send each of our own legislators, regardless of party affiliation, a letter saying simply: "If you vote with the NRA on even one of these measures, I will never vote for you again." And, when he/she does anyway, actually send the letter saying "Now I will never vote for you again." And then actually don't ever vote for that legislator again -- regardless of party. Rinse and repeat with each new legislator we get.

A team of researchers from Columbia University found that only one in three adult Americans owns a gun. (injuryprevention.bmj.com)

So, it eems to me that, if we really want to, the other two-thirds of us could eventually wrest control of our legislatures away from the NRA sending such ultimatum letters -- and then actually voting in accordance therewith.

#317 | Posted by nimbleswitch at 2018-02-15 10:58 AM | Reply

#313

Hilarious. Do I oppress you? Poor little Jeff.

#318 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 11:00 AM | Reply

Hey Jeffylube, does that make you a BIGOT towards "SJWs?" Just curious...

#319 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 11:03 AM | Reply

Oppress me?

No.

How can someone I pity oppress me?

You preach tolerance but compete with Indy as the most intolerant person on this site.

#320 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 11:04 AM | Reply

SJW's don't seek social justice. They seek conformity; conformity to their group-think views.

There are plenty of people on the left - honest, well-meaning liberals, who actually advocate for social justice. You are not in this group.

#321 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 11:06 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The current US policy on guns is a conservative creation. They own this event and all events like it.

#322 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 11:08 AM | Reply

The current US policy on guns is a conservative creation. They own this event and all events like it.

#322 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

The current US policy on guns is tied to the 2nd Amendment. I suggest you contact your congressman and agitate for a Constitutional Amendment that repeals the 2nd Amendment, just like the 21st (my favorite) repealed the 18th.

Get that done and then we can talk about going to an Australia-style gun ban.

#323 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 11:14 AM | Reply

"SJW's don't seek social justice."

Sure they do. It is right there in the name.

"They seek conformity; conformity to their group-think views."

You have it backwards. It is guardians of privilege like you who are truly opposed to diversity of thought. Recognition of other races? You cry reverse racism. Recognition of other genders? You cry reverse sexism. Conservatives commit atrocities (like Charlottesville)? You make excuses and plead for calm.

#324 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 11:16 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 7

The current US policy on guns is tied to the 2nd Amendment. I suggest you contact your congressman and agitate for a Constitutional Amendment that repeals the 2nd Amendment, just like the 21st (my favorite) repealed the 18th.

Get that done and then we can talk about going to an Australia-style gun ban.

Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 11:14 AM | Reply

The second amendment doesn't prevent the regulation on what guns can be had. It never prevented that.

#325 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-15 11:17 AM | Reply

"The current US policy on guns is tied to the 2nd Amendment."

Nope.
Just a reading of it endorsed by you and your ilk.

#326 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 11:19 AM | Reply

Sure they do. It is right there in the name.

Nope. All sorts of awful people take nice sounding names. It doesn't make the name/label accurate.

It is guardians of privilege like you who are truly opposed to diversity of thought. Recognition of other races? You cry reverse racism. Recognition of other genders? You cry reverse sexism. Conservatives commit atrocities (like Charlottesville)? You make excuses and plead for calm.

That several sentence straw man proves your bigotry.

#327 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 11:21 AM | Reply

The second amendment doesn't prevent the regulation on what guns can be had. It never prevented that.

#325 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

Correct. This is why people can't own fully automatic weapons.

#328 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 11:22 AM | Reply

Correct. This is why people can't own fully automatic weapons.

Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 11:22 AM | Reply

Untrue you can still own them.

#329 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-15 11:25 AM | Reply

That several sentence straw man proves your bigotry.

#327 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-15 11:21 AM | FLAG:

Strawman? You do it in this thread. Privileged little Jeff, dictating to the world what constitutes a "true" pursuit of social justice and then calling people who disagree with him bigots.

#330 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 11:26 AM | Reply

Untrue you can still own them.

#329 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

Yes, but the process is VERY difficult.

dictating to the world what constitutes a "true" pursuit of social justice and then calling people who disagree with him bigots.

#330 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

Laura disagrees with me all of the time. Laura is not a bigot. Gal Tuesday disagrees with me all of the time. Gal is not a bigot.

#331 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 11:32 AM | Reply

I'm not offended by your bigotry. I pity you.

#332 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 11:33 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

www.vox.com

We don't yet know for certain if Stephen Paddock used an automatic weapon when he killed at least 59 people, including himself, and injured hundreds of others in Las Vegas on Sunday night. If you know anything about US gun laws, though, this should have at first seemed unlikely -- after all, automatic weapons are some of the few guns that are supposed to be banned or, at the very least, strictly regulated in America.

The reality is more complicated. That's because, as is all too typical with US gun laws, the automatic weapons ban has some pretty big loopholes. And that makes it possible that the rapid fire heard in the videos of the Las Vegas shooting came from a fully or effectively automatic weapon.

Automatic weapons are what many Americans think of as machine guns. These are guns that can continuously fire off a stream of bullets by simply holding down the trigger -- making them very deadly. Semiautomatic weapons, by contrast, fire a single bullet per trigger pull. The difference between an automatic and a semiautomatic effectively translates to firing hundreds of rounds a minute versus dozens or so in the same time frame.

#333 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-15 11:36 AM | Reply

"Guns should be regulated and restricted in the same way abortions are." - #314 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-15 10:43 AM

✔ Abortions can only be performed in licensed facilities.

✔ Abortions can only be performed by licensed individuals.

✔ Abortions are only permitted for a specified time during a woman's pregnancy.

Guns should be regulated and restricted in the same way abortions are?

Excellent suggestion, sentinel.

#334 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-15 11:44 AM | Reply

"...I'm pretty dam sure the first hammer ever invented was to kill an animal, then a human. Then it was changed for specific task like nails etc....." - #308 | Posted by PinkyanTheBrain at 2018-02-15 10:29 AM

I'm pretty damn sure the first gun ever invented was designed to kill. And that specific task hasn't changed.

You can't say that about hammers.

#335 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-15 11:49 AM | Reply

Laura disagrees with me all of the time. Laura is not a bigot. Gal Tuesday disagrees with me all of the time. Gal is not a bigot.

#331 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-15 11:32 AM | FLAG:

And there you go again. How lucky we all are to have you to tell us the difference between true and false progressive sentiment. /snark

#336 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 11:49 AM | Reply

I'm not offended by bigotry.

#332 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-15 11:33 AM | FLAG:

FTFW. Shouldn't you be off on an alt-right thread drawing false equivalence with Antifa or something?

We've all seen your true colors.

#337 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 11:50 AM | Reply

If the Republicans in Congress say nothing can be done about these mass shootings in schools, churches, movie theaters, etc., then let's elect people who reject that mantra. Let's elect people who believe something can be done. Let's elect people who will address the issue. Let's pray we can find the wisdom and the motivation to elect officials who aren't cowed by and beholden to the NRA.

#338 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-15 11:51 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

We don't yet know for certain if Stephen Paddock used an automatic weapon

#333 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR AT 2018-02-15 11:36 AM | FLAG:

We do know that he did not. The police released an 81 page report that detailed every model of firearm used. None were fully-automatic.

#339 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-02-15 11:52 AM | Reply

Dirk,

Please know that you have my pity.

#340 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 11:55 AM | Reply

Dirk,
Please know that you have my pity.

#340 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-15 11:55 AM | FLAG:

While alt-rightists have your full support.

Any other opinions on people that you'd like to clarify?

#341 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 11:58 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Any other opinions on people that you'd like to clarify?

#341 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

Nope.

It's important to me that you know I pity you. Well, now you know.

#342 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 12:05 PM | Reply

One of these things is just like the other:

"SJW's don't seek social justice. They seek conformity; conformity to their group-think views." - #321 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 11:06 AM
"That several sentence straw man..." - #327 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 11:21 AM

#343 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-15 12:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So, do you have an answer to the question?
Sorry that had to be explained to you.

#266 | POSTED BY TRUEBLUE AT 2018-02-15 02:40 AM

Sorry that reading comprehension eludes you, like it does so many of your brethren on the DR Left. See my exchange with Syco at 143-155.

You, on the other hand, in trueblue fashiion, dive bombed the thread without reading it and then after chiding people who were actually having a productive discussion, fled.

STFU unless you have something constructive to add.

#344 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 12:14 PM | Reply

Hans, are you just attacking Jeff for sport or does Dirk have, using the Left's favorite new vernacular, "Kompromat" on you?

You usually don't stoop that low.

#345 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 12:17 PM | Reply

"Hans, are you just attacking Jeff..." - #345 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 12:17 PM

I'm pretty sure JeffJ is completely capable of defending himself if he feels I'm attacking him.

But your concern is very sweet.

#346 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-15 12:21 PM | Reply

STFU unless you have something constructive to add.
#344 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER AT 2018-02-15 12:14 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Why don't you make this your motto, you slack-jawed cretin. Then you can free up time for your true passion: geography.

#347 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 12:21 PM | Reply

You usually don't stoop that low.

#345 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER AT 2018-02-15 12:17 PM | FLAG: Speaks an expert on stooping low.

#348 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 12:23 PM | Reply

I just thought it was weird. Jeff decided to shorten what was actually one thought into two sentences and you jumped on him when you weren't part of that discussion.

#349 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 12:23 PM | Reply

Dirk, you are an intolerant, insecure, bigoted r3tard and pretty much universally reviled here.

Just thought I would provide you with a little much needed perspective for your day.

#350 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 12:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"...when you weren't part of that discussion." - #349 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 12:23 PM

Is that some new Drudge Retort protocol?

#351 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-15 12:25 PM | Reply

#350

Uses an ableist slur in the same post in which he calls
Someone else a bigot... can we get a "self-retort" flag?

#352 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 12:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

No, but you and Jeff usually have productive discussions, and for you to jump to Dirk's defense (and unlike Jeff, he does need all the help he can get) seemed weird.

I didn't see anything on this thread where he jumped on you, which is why I asked.

#353 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 12:28 PM | Reply

Thank the RCade gods there is no rule stating one must read every post in a thread before responding to it, especially on threads that are hundreds of posts long.

#354 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-15 12:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"...and for you to jump to Dirk's defense..." - #353 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 12:28 PM

My #343 doesn't mention DirkStruan... even once.

#355 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-15 12:31 PM | Reply

Is that some new Drudge Retort protocol?

#351 | POSTED BY HANS AT 2018-02-15 12:25 PM | FLAG:

Well, you know, Righto does make the rules for these sorts of things... when it is okay to intervene in a discussion, when it is okay to discuss gun control after yet another gun related tragedy, things like that. We are all just supposed to follow his lead... right into the intellectual and moral open sewer he calls home.

#356 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 12:33 PM | Reply

My above post was in response to this comment:

"STFU unless you have something constructive to add."

I mean I get your frustration, but there is no way in hell I'd want to read every ding dang post in this thread before I was allowed to comment.

#357 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-15 12:33 PM | Reply

LMAO

"an ableist slur"...what's next, are you going to accuse me of being a "privileged misogynist product of rape culture?"

You are the lamest SJW I have seen in a long time.

Do us all a favor, put on your porkpie, get on your fixed gear bicycle and wheel away to jerk yourself off in a safe space filled with people who buy into your inanity.

#358 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 12:36 PM | Reply

#357

Gal, Trueblue dive bombs the thread, accuses me and et al of having nothing constructive to discuss and then leaves.

My comment stands.

#359 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 12:38 PM | Reply

#355

It didn't need to, now you are resorting to being deliberately obtuse and you know it.

#360 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 12:39 PM | Reply

"Yes, guns are designed to kill, and some individuals desperately need killing."

Right.

This is a thread about a person who decided 17 individials desperately needed killing.

And because of his Second Amendment frredom, those 17 individuals were indeed killed, at little risk to the shooter.

That's the way it's supposed to work, right? The gun worked as intended and people were killed as intended. Everything is in keeping with the statement I quoted from Docnjo.

It would be awfully strange to expect something other than this to happen, can we all agree on that?

#361 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 12:40 PM | Reply

--We've all seen your true colors.

#337 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

Who is "we"? The campus chapter of the Marxist-Leninist-Mao-Tse-Tung-Thought club?

#362 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-02-15 12:42 PM | Reply

"It's pretty clear that the NRA opposes any gun-control legislation on "slippery-slope" grounds. It also appears clear that the NRA has most legislators in a vise grip. So how to break that NRA stranglehold?"

See if you can get them all into a school.
Then, just let nature run its course.

#363 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 12:42 PM | Reply

My #343 doesn't mention DirkStruan... even once.

#355 | POSTED BY HANS AT 2018-02-15 12:31 PM | REPLY | FL

Guilt by association is one of his usual games.

#364 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 12:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#359

Which is really strange because Trueblue is normally rational and I make a point of reading True's posts. I'll get to Hans' point after lunch.

#365 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 12:44 PM | Reply

"LMAO
"an ableist slur"..."

Yeah. You used one and outed yourself as a bigot. And when confronted, you laugh. You are a terrible human being.

"what's next, are you going to accuse me of being a "privileged misogynist product of rape culture?""

Just let me know when it stops being true.

#366 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 12:44 PM | Reply

"It didn't need to..." - #360 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 12:39 PM

Not for the point I was making.

My #343 contains the exact - and precise - verbiage necessary for the point I was making.

And to whom that point was addressed.

#367 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-15 12:45 PM | Reply

#362

lmao... I'm just waiting for the day that Hans or Laura or someone posts some old very leftist posts from the artist formerly known as Bill O'Reilly. That'll be fun.

#368 | Posted by Corky at 2018-02-15 12:45 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Who is "we"? The campus chapter of the Marxist-Leninist-Mao-Tse-Tung-Thought club?

#362 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2018-02-15 12:42 PM | FLAG:

Isn't there a Nazi somewhere that needs coddling, alleged liberal?

#369 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 12:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Hans raised a fair point in his post directed at me. I'll offer clarification in a few.

#370 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 12:49 PM | Reply

Seemed like a good regulation to me and everyone with half a brain... - #67 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 07:09 PM
And then you admit to only having half a brain?!? Have you had some breakthrough, Sycophant?

#372 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-02-15 01:03 PM | Reply

Hans,

When I use the term SJW it serves as a basic label for a certain type of person.

For example, the label I ascribe to you is "liberal", which to me is a positive label. I never use "liberal" as a pejorative. Whilst I disagree with you on a number of issues, I am completely convinced that your views are principled; that you've developed your views through your intellect, reason, careful study and the wisdom that comes and grows with age.

When I use the term "SJW" it refers to someone who is on the left, politically, and is someone who is extremely close-minded, extremely intolerant to the point of being hateful and is one who typically lives a cloistered life and engages in group-think. This can describe plenty of people on the right side of the aisle as well. I don't think a single label has been created to describe the rightwing version of SJW cretins.

I accused Dirk of erecting a series of straw man arguments because they were directed at me, personally. My initial description of a SWJ was meant to describe a certain kind of person and I hope this post adds clarity to the type of person I am describing.

I recently admonished Troofy that he's a "liberal" and not a "SJW". A principled liberal can be very committed to actual social justice. Troofy certainly fits that mold but doesn't possess the characteristics of what I view a SJW of having.

You have genuine friendships with people on the right. You've had multiple dinners with at least 2 people on the right who post (or used to post) on this site. I regard you as a friend. A SJW would never even entertain the thought of having dinner with someone like Rightisright aka Whitedevil. A liberal such as yourself doesn't think anything of it.

#373 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 01:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Hans is doing his Rainman thing, as usual.
Dirk screams for attention and responses by being purposefully ridiculous.
Gal tries for reason but sometimes catches a crazy bug.
RightO gets heat for being smarter than everyone else.
JeffJ heats your points and will respond after a meal, or upon further reading.

I'm the only sane one here. Well, me and rcade.

#374 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-15 01:17 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

- RightO gets heat for being smarter than everyone else.

Smarter than one person, you, at most.

#375 | Posted by Corky at 2018-02-15 01:24 PM | Reply

"When I use the term SJW it serves as a basic label for a certain type of person." - #373 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 01:14 PM

Social justice warrior (commonly abbreviated SJW) is a pejorative term for an individual who promotes socially progressive views, including feminism, civil rights, and multiculturalism, as well as identity politics. The accusation that somebody is an SJW carries implications that she or he is pursuing personal validation rather than any deep-seated conviction, and engaging in disingenuous arguments.

The phrase originated in the late 20th century as a neutral or positive term for people engaged in social justice activism. In 2011, when the term first appeared on Twitter, it changed from a primarily positive term to an overwhelmingly negative one. During the Gamergate controversy, the negative connotation gained increased use, and was particularly aimed at those espousing views adhering to social liberalism, cultural inclusiveness, or feminism, as well as views deemed to be politically correct.

source

The Frank Luntzification of terms around here is usually limited to the rightwing intellectual featherweights like sniper, fishpaw, avigdore and the like.

I expect (and expected) better of you, my IRL friend.

#376 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-15 01:24 PM | Reply

"When I use the term SJW it serves as a basic label for a certain type of person."

Somehow you don't think Martin Luther King Jr. fits the nominative description of Social Justice Warrior.

Because it's passé to disagree with his social justice war.

This is the fundamental problem with your use of the term Social Justice Warrior.

You only use it a bad thing for social issues where you are blind to the injustice. And so you mock the warriors.

#377 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 01:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I don't think a single label has been created to describe the rightwing version of SJW cretins."

Let's call them JeffJs then.

#378 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 01:27 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

God made man. Smith and Wesson made them equal.

Posted by boaz at 2018-02-14 07:17 PM | Reply

COLT Did that.

#379 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-15 01:27 PM | Reply

If SJW is an unacceptable label for the type of person I described, what do you (Snoofy or Hans) suggest I replace it with?

#380 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 01:28 PM | Reply

"RightO gets heat for being smarter than everyone else." - #374 | Posted by 101Chairborne

RightO is a dumb person's idea of a smart person.

#381 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-15 01:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I'm sure some of you will scoff at Townhall as a source. Please check your bias and check out this suggestion to prevent future school mass shootings:

townhall.com

#382 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 01:29 PM | Reply

#378

I'm giving that a FF.

#383 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 01:29 PM | Reply

"If SJW is an unacceptable label for the type of person I described..." - #380 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 01:28 PM

Like calling the Democratic Party the "Democrat" party.

"...what do you...suggest I replace it with?"

Is a replacement necessary?

#384 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-15 01:31 PM | Reply

Like calling the Democratic Party the "Democrat" party.

I don't do that.

Is a replacement necessary?

#384 | POSTED BY HANS

If you and others whose opinion I value take offense as to how I use that label, then yes, a replacement is necessary.

#385 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 01:33 PM | Reply

#373

I won't claim authorship of this, it is the best summary of SJW I have ever seen:

SJW is one of the most annoying acronyms I have ever seen, and I lived through ROTFLOL. We had a pretty big Jehovah's Witness infestation (sorry, I don't know what the collective noun is) in my town when I was growing up, so I thought SJW stood for some kind of Jehovah's Witness, maybe "Single Jehovah's Witness," something a JW would use in a Craigslist dating ad. It turns out it stands for "Social Justice Warrior," and once upon a time was used it sarcastically to refer to overenthusiastic people who thought they were fighting for social justice and defending the oppressed but were actually ineffectually jerking themselves off on Tumblr.

Back in my day, we called it "political correctness," but no one will use that term now because old people do. It described an overly zealous liberal type who was oversensitive to any hint of racism or sexism and would accuse you of genocide if you called a black person "African-American" when the current popular term was "person of color." These people were usually quite white and often did not know any black people. They just got ------ from going to bat for a "poor, oppressed people" that possibly didn't even want their help.

Internet people decided to sarcastically call these people Social Justice Warriors because they seemed to visualize themselves as mighty crusaders fighting for justice when they were actually typing quietly on computers on behalf of minority groups that probably didn't even care.

However, it no longer works as an insult because people get called that and go, "A social justice warrior? Social justice is a good thing! Warriors are cool! Why are you misogynists complimenting me?"

Some people on the "right side" actually buy into this narrative, that fighting racism (or sexism) automatically makes them part of a monolithic club, or a team. They proudly hitch their identity to everyone cool on that "team." They make up their own special slang and inside jokes and look down on people who don't know it. They look for high-fives every time they drop a zinger on someone from the other side, even if that zinger changed no one's mind and didn't get any new info out there.

Being proud of the "SJW" label can lead a person into a bad trap: You feel like you can leech off the prestige and identity of people genuinely fighting for civil rights and equality if you just insult the same people they are arguing with. Someone writes an essay about sexism in the tech industry and engages with people who disagree with her by providing further reasons to back up her argument. You pile on and tell the people who disagree that they suck. Yeah! You're an equality fighter!

It becomes about clan mentality. It stops being about what you do and how you do it and starts being about what side you are on. As long as you are on the "right" side, you get lazy about keeping an eye on your attitudes and your tactics.

If the term "SJW" hadn't been ruined by internet overuse, it would have fit these people perfectly. The self-aggrandizement implied by that phrase perfectly sums up a person who champions social issues only to get a high from self-righteousness and the excitement of imagining Internet drama as a "battle" they are fighting in.

I do wish we had a replacement for the original meaning, a quick and easy reminder phrase to nip that behavior in the bud, to tell our friends they're starting to act the same as the bad guys. Social Justice Warrior Wannabes (SJWW?). Naw, that will just get co-opted by the Internet as well.


#386 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 01:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

--Somehow you don't think Martin Luther King Jr. fits the nominative description of Social Justice Warrior.

MLK advocated judging people by "the content of their character not the color of their skin".

Today's SJWs? Just the opposite.

#387 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-02-15 01:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

RightO is a dumb person's idea of a smart person.

#381 | POSTED BY HANS AT 2018-02-15 01:28 PM

So you and Corky must think I am a super genius. :)

#388 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 01:37 PM | Reply

"If you and others whose opinion I value take offense as to how I use that label, then yes, a replacement is necessary." - #385 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 01:33 PM

Okay.

How about: "You're S.W.I.E.C-M.E.I.T.T.P.O.B.H.A.I.O.W.T.L.A.C.L.A.E.I.G-T."

It is concise, to the point, and encompasses everything you said in your #373.

#389 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-15 01:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

S.W.I.E.C-M.E.I.T.T.P.O.B.H.A.I.O.W.T.L.A.C.L.A.E.I.G-T.": someone who is extremely close-minded, extremely intolerant to the point of being hateful and is one who typically lives a cloistered life and engages in group-think.

#390 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-15 01:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"If SJW is an unacceptable label for the type of person I described, what do you (Snoofy or Hans) suggest I replace it with?"

I suggest you replace it with careful introspection on why you are unable to accept a SJW like Truth asserting that they are a SJW. (This gets to not accepting trans people and conflating them with cis pervs as well.)

Then I suggest you think about why you need to have a dismissive, pejorative label for people you disagree with.

Contemplate why you think a perceived social injustice isn't a thing that should be fought.

Consider that this school shooter perceived a gruesome personal and societal social injustice, and he took it on like a true warrior. See what I did there?

#391 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 01:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"So you and Corky must think I am a super genius" - #388 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 01:37 PM

That's twice now...

...in the same thread.

#392 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-15 01:41 PM | Reply

Hans,

Thankfully you stretched that into 2 posts. I was able to give you both a FF and a NW.

#393 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 01:41 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#390

Which is the exact point of my #386, but could use some shortening.

#394 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 01:42 PM | Reply

"Today's SJWs? Just the opposite."

Who specifically do you have in mind, as the opposite of MLK, who advocates judging people the old way?

#395 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 01:42 PM | Reply

If the term "SJW" hadn't been ruined by internet overuse, it would have fit these people perfectly. The self-aggrandizement implied by that phrase perfectly sums up a person who champions social issues only to get a high from self-righteousness and the excitement of imagining Internet drama as a "battle" they are fighting in.

I think there needs to be a new term and one that can have a left and right prefix/suffix because both sides have people like this.

#396 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-15 01:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Fed:
I've heard of the phrase "the dog returns to its own vomit," but jeez, you're getting frequent flier points here.

#397 | Posted by e1g1 at 2018-02-15 01:43 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Thankfully you stretched that into 2 posts." - #393 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 01:41 PM

And think of the value of calling someone S.W.I.E.C-M.E.I.T.T.P.O.B.H.A.I.O.W.T.L.A.C.L.A.E.I.G-T:

It is right/left agnostic, so it can be used by anyone for anyone.

#398 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-15 01:44 PM | Reply

"someone who is extremely close-minded, extremely intolerant to the point of being hateful and is one who typically lives a cloistered life and engages in group-think."

You forgot left-wing.

Being on the left is key to JeffJ's use of thus term as a pejorative.

Because he's on the right.

Heck, there isn't even a term for people like that on the right!

Talk about seeing out of one eye only...

#399 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 01:45 PM | Reply

I suggest you replace it with careful introspection on why you are unable to accept a SJW like Truth asserting that they are a SJW.

That's because Troofy doesn't possess the characteristics inherent in the type of person I ascribe to the SJW label.

(This gets to not accepting trans people and conflating them with cis pervs as well.)

Fortunately, I don't do that and that certainly came out of left field.

Then I suggest you think about why you need to have a dismissive, pejorative label for people you disagree with.

I don't have a dismissive, pejorative label for people I disagree with. I have a dismissive, pejorative label for people who exhibit characteristics and traits that are worthy of a dismissive, pejorative label.

Contemplate why you think a perceived social injustice isn't a thing that should be fought.

That is a straw man. It's completely contrary to what I actually believe.

Consider that this school shooter perceived a gruesome personal and societal social injustice, and he took it on like a true warrior. See what I did there?

#391 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Yes, and it wasn't nearly as clever as you think it was.

#400 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 01:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I think there needs to be a new term and one that can have a left and right prefix/suffix because both sides have people like this.

#396 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY

Agreed. It's a point I acknowledged in 273.

#401 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 01:48 PM | Reply

It is right/left agnostic, so it can be used by anyone for anyone.

#398 | POSTED BY HANS

Which speaks to Gal's point.

#402 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 01:48 PM | Reply

"It becomes about clan mentality. It stops being about what you do and how you do it and starts being about what side you are on. As long as you are on the "right" side, you get lazy about keeping an eye on your attitudes and your tactics."

This, too, applies to some on both sides of the aisle. It used to be the folks on the right who were most like this tended to be a subset of Evangelicals, e.g., the Moral Majority, but now the Alt-Right is also forming it's own contingent and getting into the act. I sometimes refer to people who protest against SJWs so vehemently as anti-SJWs because they strike me as being opposite sides of the same coin.

#403 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-15 01:49 PM | Reply

#396

Agreed, as we see here on a daily basis.

#404 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 01:51 PM | Reply

The alt-right is the nastiest subset of the anti-SJW's of the right.

#405 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 01:52 PM | Reply

"That's because Troofy doesn't possess the characteristics inherent in the type of person I ascribe to the SJW label."

Indeed, that was my point.

It's not up to you to decide what anybody is. Thats up to them.

But, only if you believe in self-determination.

Based on your comments about transgender, I'm not sure you believe in self-determination. I think you're a serial labeller. Basically, a playground name-caller.

#406 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 01:52 PM | Reply

David French and Jonah Goldberg at NRO can personally attest to the nastiness of the alt-right.

#407 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 01:53 PM | Reply

1. Full Federal Background Checks on ALL Gun Sales, including private sales,by opening the NICS to everyone in the population
2. Full Federal Registration of All Firearms renewed annually with updated background check to accompany renewal Are you going to have this on existing weapons? If so, how are you going to find those weapons? You'll have the most push-back on this one due to the slippery-slope evidence
3. A Safety Course before being allowed to Purchase a Firearm for the first time with a refresher once every 5-7 years Have it happen in grade-school, high-school, and include it as part of the voter registration process
4. No Firearms for Felons, anyone convicted of Domestic Violence or anyone with Mental Health that lead them to be a danger to themselves or others That's the law now, right?
5. Limitations on Cartridge Size, Bump Stocks illegal Going to have to get through the 2nd amendment on this one, depending on your size restraint.
6. Elimination of PLCAA Why do you include something that will have zero impact on gun deaths and only serve to alienate people to your cause? Strike this one
7. Severe penalties for violation of firearm regulations Already in effect
8. Penalty for an owner for losing or having a firearm stolen This is pretty self-defeating. Now people who do have a weapon stolen by a criminal will have a negative incentive to report that to law enforcement
9. Liability for owners of lost guns used in crimes if they failed to report the lost gun for a period longer than 12 months This one also will not do anything to prevent gun deaths

#147 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-14 08:33 PM

So, it eems to me that, if we really want to bad enough, the other two-thirds of us could eventually wrest control of our legislatures away from the NRA - #268 | Posted by nimbleswitch at 2018-02-15 02:53 AM
This number simplification will not overcome the realities of small population states with high populations of gun-owners preventing the passing laws through the Senate or of an amendment.

#408 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-02-15 01:54 PM | Reply

Based on your comments about transgender,

Which comments about transgender? You don't need to Hans my post history, a simple summary will do.

#409 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 01:54 PM | Reply

Your inability to discuss transgender without also bringing perverts into the discussion. Those comments.

#410 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 01:57 PM | Reply

#403

Agreed, and from the same excerpt that I posted earlier:

Nowadays you can pretty much guarantee that some people who throw SJW around with abandon may not only be a racist or sexist but a fairly nasty one.

The neo-Nazis and misogynists aren't as dumb as you think -- they're deliberately trying to create a narrative that there are two equal and opposing sides, the discriminatory -------- in question and the broadbrush "SJWs" that they believe encompasses, well, everyone esle. This is like if there was a tiny, gross movement that wanted to pick their noses in public (the Free Booger Movement, say), and they called everyone else an Anti-Booger Advocate. Every time someone told them, "That's gross," or, "Haven't you ever heard of a Kleenex?" they would mutter about these people being part of the Anti-Booger agenda who are simply repeating typical ABA talking points.

Instead of having to face the truth that normal human beings everywhere, completely unconnected to each other, independently realize that public nose-picking is gross, they can believe that there is some secret, central organization that for nefarious reasons is trying to stop nose-picking, and it's fooled people everywhere into believing its propaganda. That everyone who dislikes nose-picking ultimately gets marching orders from one place.

Unfortunately, this is also what the self-described SJW's do, so at the end of the day, they really are no better than the neo-Nazi's and misogynists, they just don't realize it. We would all be better of if they all just went away or were put on an island and let them fight it out, cage-match style. While appealing, this is probably not a good idea since there are bound to be a couple of survivors that we would ultimately have to deal with.

#411 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 02:00 PM | Reply

Your inability to discuss transgender without also bringing perverts into the discussion. Those comments.

#410 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

You know why perverts get brought into the public facilities discussion. Don't be disingenuous.

#412 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 02:07 PM | Reply

"I don't have a dismissive, pejorative label for people I disagree with."

Of course you do.

"I have a dismissive, pejorative label for people who exhibit characteristics and traits that are worthy of a dismissive, pejorative label."

Based on standard that YOU set. Per your usual.

#413 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 02:07 PM | Reply

"That is a straw man. It's completely contrary to what I actually believe."

What you believe, based on your behavior, is that you are the arbiter of what is and is not legitimate as an effort towards social progress and of what constitutes social progress to begin with.

#414 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 02:09 PM | Reply

You know why perverts get brought into the public facilities discussion. Don't be disingenuous.

#412 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-15 02:07 PM | FLAG:

Yeah, because you bring them up.

#415 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 02:10 PM | Reply

"You know why perverts get brought into the public facilities discussion"

What does a perverted man in a dress committing a crime have to do with a trans woman's right to be legally accommodated in society?

These are separate issues. One is a crime; the other is a legal necessity. To speak of both in the same breath means you don't understand that.

#416 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 02:11 PM | Reply

#415 nailed it.

It is your SJW moment, JeffJ.

#417 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 02:12 PM | Reply

What does a perverted man in a dress committing a crime have to do with a trans woman's right to be legally accommodated in society?
These are separate issues. One is a crime; the other is a legal necessity. To speak of both in the same breath means you don't understand that.

#416 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2018-02-15 02:11 PM

Because, as it pertained to the "guidance letter" and similarly worded bills, it gave perverts legal protections enabling them to enter facilities designated to the opposite sex. You know this but refuse to acknowledge it.

It is not a conflation of transgenders and perverts. Suggesting that is what I was doing was just a lame attempt to shame me into shutting up. I'm not playing that game.

#418 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 02:16 PM | Reply

"Because, as it pertained to the "guidance letter" and similarly worded bills, it gave perverts legal protections enabling them to enter facilities designated to the opposite sex. You know this but refuse to acknowledge it."

Really? It legalizes perverted conduct in restrooms? How about that.

#419 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 02:20 PM | Reply

It legalized perverts access to facilities designated for members of the opposite sex.

#420 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 02:23 PM | Reply

Let's not hijack the thread (that applies to me as well).

#421 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 02:23 PM | Reply

It legalized perverts access to facilities designated for members of the opposite sex.

#420 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-15 02:23 PM | FLAG:

A nonspecific complaint at best. And, of course, the criminal behavior itself is still criminal. One wonders why you bring it up...

#422 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 02:24 PM | Reply

Let's not hijack the thread (that applies to me as well).

#421 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-15 02:23 PM | FLAG:

You already did with your usual anti-SJW screed. I get it. You have to silence dissent somehow. And you now default to another method of doing so: proceduralism.

#423 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 02:26 PM | Reply

#386 and 511

Tired of posting his own strawmen, Righto resorts to posting someone else's.

#424 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 02:28 PM | Reply

SO... another gun shooting thread derailed, deflected, and obfuscated by claims that people who care about such things are "SJW's".

What a crying shame that is.

#425 | Posted by Corky at 2018-02-15 02:31 PM | Reply

You already did with your usual anti-SJW screed

That "screed" was a response to another post.

#426 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 02:31 PM | Reply

SO... another gun shooting thread derailed, deflected, and obfuscated by claims that people who care about such things are "SJW's".
What a crying shame that is.
#425 | POSTED BY CORKY

I posted a link to what I felt was a thought-provoking piece laying out how to minimize casualties for future school shootings.

Nobody has commented on it.

#427 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 02:34 PM | Reply

427 posts. Have we solved gun violence yet? No? I'll be back next week when we return to regular news.

#428 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-02-15 02:34 PM | Reply

You have to silence dissent somehow.

You take yourself way too seriously.

And you now default to another method of doing so: proceduralism.

#423 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

Actually, it's called "courtesy".

#429 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 02:35 PM | Reply

That "screed" was a response to another post.

#426 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-15 02:31 PM | FLAG:

If a "response" means your attempt to ---- down discussion by breaking out your (supposed) pejorative of choice, then yes. And thereby the question of SJWs is introduced to the discussion.

#430 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 02:36 PM | Reply

Actually, it's called "courtesy".

#429 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-15 02:35 PM | FLAG:

Whatever excuse you need...

#431 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 02:36 PM | Reply

That turd takes YOU way too seriously. He's a flipping nut. Plank that fool, or at the very least quit quoting him so that those of us that her don't have to read is serial stupidity.

#432 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-15 02:43 PM | Reply

Tired of posting his own strawmen

For someone who only posts strawmen, you show your complete misunderstanding of that term if you think that's what #386 and 411 are.

It's understandable that you don't like those posts, self-awareness isn't your strong point.

#433 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 02:44 PM | Reply

That turd takes YOU way too seriously. He's a flipping nut. Plank that fool, or at the very least quit quoting him so that those of us that her don't have to read is serial stupidity.

#432 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE AT 2018-02-15 02:43 PM | FLAG:

Anyone care to translate this gibberish into human language?

#434 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 02:44 PM | Reply

For someone who only posts strawmen, you show your complete misunderstanding of that term if you think that's what #386 and 411 are.
It's understandable that you don't like those posts, self-awareness isn't your strong point.

#433 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER AT 2018-02-15 02:44 PM | FLAG:

The quoted post comes up with an imaginary SJW who advocates nose picking. THAT is supposed to be the operative analogy. If that isn't a strawman, then I don't know what is.

Where do you even find this nonsense?

#435 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 02:47 PM | Reply

Also, funny to be accused of lack of self awareness by someone who uses ableist slurs in a post about bigotry... you need to do some soul searching.

#436 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 02:48 PM | Reply

That turd takes YOU way too seriously. He's a flipping nut.

I only try to quote his serial stupidity, which shows in his use of SJW codewords such as "proceduralism" and "ableist", which fits precisely into this description:

"Some people on the "right side" actually buy into this narrative, that fighting racism (or sexism) automatically makes them part of a monolithic club, or a team. They proudly hitch their identity to everyone cool on that "team." They make up their own special slang and inside jokes and look down on people who don't know it. They look for high-fives every time they drop a zinger on someone from the other side, even if that zinger changed no one's mind and didn't get any new info out there."

#437 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 02:52 PM | Reply

That turd takes YOU way too seriously. He's a flipping nut. Plank that fool, or at the very least quit quoting him so that those of us that her don't have to read is serial stupidity.

#432 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

While all of that is true, I pity him, so I won't plonk.

Think about his life:

Dad is super rich, but it's first generation wealth so dad was never at home when he was a kid.

Mom was loving, but a bit detached and not very affectionate.

At a very young age he developed a dual sense of entitlement and self-victimhood.

Took 6 years to get a Bachelor's degree taking every victimhood course in the humanities department that was available.

Because he's so jaded, his parents pretty much shun him.

Dad keeps the trust-fund filled to a point where he can live comfortably enough - can afford rent on his 1000 sq foot flat, basic food and Kohl's caliber clothing, all the Zima and White Zinfandel he can drink, etc - without having to work, but not so much that he can live lavishly off dad's money. He resents the hell out of his parents as a result of this.

He has one friend, Pajama Boy, who has no friends.

His only real person-to-person interaction is talking to baristas. But, it's one sided. He talks and they nod their heads dismissively.

Imagine never having experienced things that almost all guys take for granted, like having a job, mowing the lawn, making out with a girl...

So, I understand why he is the way he is, and I take pity. But I don't excuse it or condone it. Anyone with an ounce of self-respect and even a notion of personal responsibility would take ownership of their life and would make it better.

#438 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 02:53 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

#435

You are right, you don't know what it is, thanks for confirming that for us.

#439 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 02:54 PM | Reply

"I only try to quote his serial stupidity, which shows in his use of SJW codewords such as "proceduralism" and "ableist", which fits precisely into this description:"

If you think proceduralism is a code word, you need to invest in a dictionary. As for ableism, it is no more a code word than racism or sexism (which also gives us a handy point of moral comparison for your language use).

#440 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 02:58 PM | Reply

#438

Close but not quite accurate. I think this recitation is slightly more accurate-

"The details of my life are quite inconsequential... very well, where do I begin? My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery. My mother was a fifteen year old French prostitute named Chloe with webbed feet. My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. My childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When I was insolent I was placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds- pretty standard really. At the age of twelve I received my first scribe. At the age of fourteen a Zoroastrian named Vilma ritualistically shaved my ---------. There really is nothing like a shorn -------... it's breathtaking- I highly suggest you try it."

-Dr. Dirkstruan

#441 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 02:59 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#438

How very elaborate.

And you accuse OTHERS of intolerance after that sort of manufactured ad hominem?

#442 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 03:01 PM | Reply

You are right, you don't know what it is, thanks for confirming that for us.

#439 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER AT 2018-02-15 02:54 PM | FLAG:

What's wrong with my analysis. Be specific.

#443 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 03:02 PM | Reply

And you accuse OTHERS of intolerance after that sort of manufactured ad hominem?

#442 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

It cuts pretty close to the bone, eh?

Here's a homework assignment: Google the term: Match and mirror.

#444 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 03:03 PM | Reply

#440

Here's a clue, Dirk...the reason they are called "code words" is that they can usually be found in a dictionary but are subverted or misused by the members of a "club" to mean something different then their original use.

You are welcome.

#445 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 03:04 PM | Reply

#443

LMAO, what are you, Snoofy's sock puppet?

I am done educating you on your inanity.

#446 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 03:05 PM | Reply

"Here's a clue, Dirk...the reason they are called "code words" is that they can usually be found in a dictionary but are subverted or misused by the members of a "club" to mean something different then their original use."

Not the case with either term I used. Ableist is clear as crystal and perfectly describes your use of retarded as an insult. And would you care to point out how my use of proceduralism at all differed from the conventional in describing Jeff's recent change of tactics?

#447 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 03:10 PM | Reply

438
Other than forgetting to mention his "Hillary Clinton styled hair" and love of juice boxes, you nailed it.

#448 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-15 03:10 PM | Reply

It cuts pretty close to the bone, eh?
Here's a homework assignment: Google the term: Match and mirror.

#444 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-15 03:03 PM | FLAG:

Really? I invent elaborate life stories for people that describe them in unflattering terms after claiming the moral high ground for a hundred posts straight? News to me. But by all means, try to cover your hypocrisy.

#449 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 03:11 PM | Reply

I take it you didn't look up the term and obviously have no clue as to why I suggested you look it up.

#450 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 03:13 PM | Reply

"it gave perverts legal protections enabling them to enter facilities designated to the opposite sex."

Facilities are designated by gender, not sex. "Opposite" is a false dichotomy.

But it doesn't matter. Current law protects gay male perverts who enter the bathroom of their own gender. Where is your outrage? why the double standard?

#451 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 03:21 PM | Reply

Building a rapport with someone (like a client) by mirroring tone and mannerisms, right? But, as I pointed out, I don't do what you did in that post, so the term doesn't fit.

#452 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 03:21 PM | Reply

"Actually, it's called "courtesy"

The courtesy of pity.
Mighty white of you!

#453 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 03:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

I am done educating you on your inanity.

#446 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER AT 2018-02-15 03:05 PM | FLAG:

You had better start educating yourself. Your shopping list: a dictionary, "Logic for Dummies", and of course, an Atlas of the US (in case you need to tell California from New Jersey again).

#454 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 03:27 PM | Reply

It is now confirmed that the shooter was a member of a white supremacist group

As the criminal case against the suspect took shape, the leader of a white nationalist militia called the Republic of Florida said Cruz was a member of his group and participated in exercises in Tallahassee.

Jordan Jereb told The Associated Press that did not know Cruz personally and that "he acted on his own behalf" and is "solely responsible for what he just did."

The group wants Florida to become its own white ethno-state. Jereb said his organization holds "spontaneous random demonstrations" and tries not to participate in the modern world.

But we should be afraid of social justice warriors?

#455 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-02-15 03:29 PM | Reply

Building a rapport with someone (like a client) by mirroring tone and mannerisms, right?

Correct. Nicely stated.

But, as I pointed out, I don't do what you did in that post, so the term doesn't fit.

#452 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

Ad hominem? You do it all of the time. Unprovoked.

#438 was in response to (hence, match and mirror) your serial incivility.

#456 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 03:29 PM | Reply

"I posted a link to what I felt was a thought-provoking piece laying out how to minimize casualties for future school shootings."

LOL.

Stopping school shootings is simply beyond our grasp, but we can try to minimize casualties!

American Exceptionalism writ large, in right-wing crayon. Gold star on the fridge for you!

#457 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 03:31 PM | Reply

#457 well that was a substantive rejoinder to a piece you probably didn't even read.

#458 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 03:32 PM | Reply

Reality is in the absence of an outright gun ban and confiscation 300 million guns in the US, these shootings will continue.

Democrats understandably argue for tougher gun control measures in the wake of these tragedies, but what they propose wouldn't have prevented any of these shootings had they been in place already.

#459 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 03:37 PM | Reply

Yet students are also trained in how to respond to an active shooter situation.

Ben Goldstein, an American who made aliyah to Israel, and now serves as volunteer security and supporter of IDF soldiers, says America is behind the curve. Nevertheless, he says, it doesn't take much for students and teachers to protect themselves.

"Barricade, barricade. Are desks movable? Is the teacher's desk movable? Can they barricade inside of 20 seconds? If the shooter gets in, the kids should take whatever they've got and attack. They can't just sit there frozen or they will die. America does earthquake drills, why not active shooter drills? More kids have been killed by shooters than earthquakes."


Link is in #383

#460 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 03:44 PM | Reply

JeffJ, gun laws allow killers to acquire guns, and there's nothing stopping them from bringing them to school, right?

I can only assume this is of no concern for you.

Otherwise we would be hearing all about it every time legal firearm ownership comes up. You'd be reminding us how the law, welk intentioned as it may be, gives cover for killers to acquire weapons, and we're powerless to stop them until it's too late. And it's happened dozens and dozens of times, so this isn't just some imagined threat either. There's a body count well into the hundreds, and that's just children.

But we only hear you complain when it comes to miscreants in bathrooms thanks to acknowledgement of transgender rights.

Never miscreants with guns thanks to acknowlehdement of Second Amendment rights.

Which is the bigger problem, really? If it's guns, why haven't you ever spoken out about how the law allows this to happen?

#461 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 03:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

From the same link:

In 1974, Israel endured the Ma'alot Massacre in which "Palestinian" terrorists took 115 people hostage at Netiv Meir Elementary School. Twenty-two children and three others were killed and 68 injured. Israel now requires schools with 100 or more students to have a guard posted. The civilian police force handles the entire security system of all schools from kindergarten through college. The Ministry of Education funds shelters and fences, reinforces school buses, and hires and trains guards.

Guards don't just stand around. They check everyone entering, and engage threats.

And yeah, they've got guns.The lawful purposes for carrying guns are very clear: protect school personnel and students, create a sense of security, deter the ill-intentioned, and provide self-defense.

#462 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 03:46 PM | Reply

Ad hominem? You do it all of the time. Unprovoked.
#438 was in response to (hence, match and mirror) your serial incivility.

#456 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-15 03:29 PM | FLAG:

You are not being specific enough. Inventing elaborate accounts like yours, speculating as to personal details and motives as if in possession of real knowl she on the subject etc, none of these are things I do. So you might be "matching" but not "mirroring" (and of course you are not trying to build a rapport either). Some nerve, asking me to look up a term you yourself can't use correctly...

#463 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 03:46 PM | Reply

"Reality is in the absence of an outright gun ban and confiscation 300 million guns in the US, these shootings will continue."

No ----, Sherlock.

You must therefore favor the shootings to continue, since you don't favor a gun ban and confiscation.

Thanks for reading and understanding.

#464 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 03:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Democrats understandably argue for tougher gun control measures in the wake of these tragedies, but what they propose wouldn't have prevented any of these shootings had they been in place already.

#459 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-15 03:37 PM | REPLY

Yes, they would have.

The proposed law against large capacity magazines would have made him stop and reload sooner

Many shootings end when the gunman is tackled when they stop to reload

abcnews.go.com

thinkprogress.org

Proper background checks would have revealed his violent past and prevented him from buying the gun he used

No law can eliminate the risk of any crime but they can make it harder to commit them and REDUCE the number of crimes.

#465 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-02-15 03:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

--since you don't favor a gun ban and confiscation.

Your team should put that into the Democrat 2020 platform.

#466 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-02-15 03:48 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

"Reality is in the absence of an outright gun ban and confiscation 300 million guns in the US, these shootings will continue."

The only thing standing in the way are the gun cultists. The rest of the population would vote for such a ban tomorrow if they could.

#467 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 03:49 PM | Reply

Your team should put that into the Democrat 2020 platform.

#466 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2018-02-15 03:48 PM | FLAG:

Your team should put that on the platform too... if they ever get tired of scores of dead kids every other week. I won't hold my breath.

#468 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 03:51 PM | Reply

www.youtube.com

#469 | Posted by Tor at 2018-02-15 03:52 PM | Reply

#464

Cue "but it can never happen!" catch-22 from the usual suspects.

#470 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 03:52 PM | Reply

"To build on the success of the lifesaving Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, we will expand and strengthen background checks and close dangerous loopholes in our current laws; repeal the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA) to revoke the dangerous legal immunity protections gun makers and sellers now enjoy; and keep weapons of war -- such as assault weapons and large capacity ammunition magazines (LCAM's) -- off our streets."

2016 Dem platform

time.com

Which is much better than the GOP platform that reads: Please see NRA website.

#471 | Posted by Corky at 2018-02-15 03:53 PM | Reply

Which is the bigger problem, really? If it's guns, why haven't you ever spoken out about how the law allows this to happen?

#461 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Because I am a realist.

Here is a dose of reality for you:

The only way to prevent these shootings is for an Australia-style gun-ban and the confiscation of roughly 300 million guns that are in the US.

The only way any of that is even remotely possible is to repeal the 2nd Amendment, just like the 21st (my favorite) repealed the 18th.

Talking about a nationwide gun-ban and confiscation program is pointless as long as the 2nd Amendment remains in place.

The conversation toward that end starts with talking about repealing the 2nd Amendment.

A repeal of the 2nd doesn't have enough public support to be a realistic expectation.

Given reality, I like the ideas posited from my link in #383.

#472 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 03:53 PM | Reply

--since you don't favor a gun ban and confiscation.
Your team should put that into the Democrat 2020 platform.

#466 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2018-02-15 03:48 PM | REPLY |

Why?

We don't favor shooting ourselves in the head either but we don't need it spelled out in the platform to know that.

gun confiscation is a right wing fantasy.

#473 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-02-15 03:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The only way to prevent these shootings is for an Australia-style gun-ban and the confiscation of roughly 300 million guns that are in the US.

There are other approaches.

But your hysterical, all or nothing hyperbole, is a talking point used by the NRA and gun advocates in order to make sure nothing actually changes.

So. Enjoy your weekly toll of dead kids. It's fun to pontificate. Until the dead kid ends up being one of your own.

#474 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-02-15 03:57 PM | Reply

gun confiscation is a right wing fantasy.

#473 | POSTED BY HATTER5183 AT 2018-02-15 03:55 PM | FLAG:

Spare me the details, please! If I wanted to know what right wingers fantasize about, I'd watch... well, the fault news coverage of Mr. Trumps Whitehouse, actually.

#475 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 03:58 PM | Reply

Canada hasn't outlawed guns and don't have shooting at the rate America does even if we adjust for population size differences.

What are they doing that we don't?

#476 | Posted by Tor at 2018-02-15 04:00 PM | Reply

What are they doing that we don't?

Well. Their media and their government isn't pumping them with fear anger and anxiety.

Plus. Canada is socialist. Which provides a better life for everyone. So, families aren't as stressed out.

#477 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-02-15 04:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

There are other approaches.

None of which will guarantee these shootings will never happen again.

Like I said, deal in reality.

#478 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 04:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

- None of which will guarantee these shootings will never happen again.

So, some improvement isn't worth making new law?

You are making the goalposts an inch wide and complaining about there not being more field goals.

#479 | Posted by Corky at 2018-02-15 04:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

For what it's worth, the talking heads on conservative radio are claiming a defeatest attitude towards thesw situations. "Nothing can be done In the halls of Congress!!"

Of course Rush was hammering this incessantly. But another guy put out in the air waves that this epidemic of school shootings is actually a symptom of the first school shooting in the U.S. at Columbine, at least that was his chosen ignorant POV. This all started in 1999 when the media went ape ---- covering the Columbine shooting and all shootings post Columbine are actually all tied to Columbine. He didn't even take into account the probability that many school shooters were unaware of the Columbine shooting, let alone it being something for mentally deranged teens to place on a pedestal for replication. I have students on my case load who can't even articulate what 9/11 Was or why it's important today. School shooting is a concept for mentally ill teens that is perceived as an option, but the notion that ALL school shootings post 1999, not to mention the ones previous (which did take place), are all interconnected is buffoonery.

#480 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2018-02-15 04:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Their media...

Look, man. Canadians eat, sleep, and drink American culture. Those Gordies are still watching DeGrassi.
It has to be something else, because those unoriginal tools are have nothing of their own.

#481 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-15 04:08 PM | Reply

So, some improvement isn't worth making new law?

I have no problem with that.

#482 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 04:09 PM | Reply

"We don't favor shooting ourselves in the head either but we don't need it spelled out in the platform to know that."

Most people who die from guns do so when they deliberately kill themselves. Suicide is the most common use of a gun to kill someone. It happens about fifty times every day.

Based on the evidence, the Second Amendment is a policy that promotes shooting yourself in the head.

#483 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 04:10 PM | Reply

#478

JEFF

I question any reality that necessitates the notion of "guarantee."

There's always going to be nuance within the construct of reality. Requiring as much, especially in terms of school shootings, is far too idealistic for my tastes.

Please tell me you are not also hitching your wagon to the defeatist mentality.

#484 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2018-02-15 04:11 PM | Reply

Please tell me you are not also hitching your wagon to the defeatist mentality.

#484 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

Not at all.

Having said that, a little preparation can go a long way toward deterring a potential shooting and minimizing the carnage if it happens.

See #383

#485 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 04:13 PM | Reply

"A repeal of the 2nd doesn't have enough public support to be a realistic expectation."

So?

Repealing slavery didn't have enough public support in 1854.

Is that a good reason to oppose repeal; to support slavery?

You're making excuses, which is pretty bad. I don't think you realize it, which is far worse.

#486 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 04:13 PM | Reply

Jeff,

I do t see how #383 relates to my post.

#487 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2018-02-15 04:14 PM | Reply

Beach,

It doesn't. I was just pointing out that given our political reality, it's a common sense approach to this that has proven to be successful elsewhere.

#488 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 04:17 PM | Reply

How do you bring slavery into this discussion?

As it pertains to slavery it was repealed with an Amendment, so yeah, it had pretty widespread support given it took 2/3 of congress and 3/4 of the states to get it done.

#489 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 04:19 PM | Reply

I'm not making excuses.

The type of gun ban you favor can't happen without first repealing the 2nd Amendment.

That's not an excuse, it's reality.

#490 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 04:20 PM | Reply

Jeff,

I'm giving that a FF.
#383 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-15 01:29 PM

#491 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2018-02-15 04:20 PM | Reply

Why?

#492 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 04:25 PM | Reply

"What are they doing that we don't?
POSTED BY TOR"

In terms that everyone here can understand, I'd say they are promoting the General Welfare.

To illustrtste the difference, we made it illegal for our public health authority the CDC from researching and addressing gun violence to promote the general welfare.

(By "we" I mean Republicans in Congress.)

#493 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 04:26 PM | Reply

"Yeah. You used one and outed yourself as a bigot. And when confronted, you laugh. You are a terrible human being."

Where's your outrage at the ableist slur that used daily on this site and directed at your President?

#494 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-15 04:26 PM | Reply

"The type of gun ban you favor can't happen without first repealing the 2nd Amendment."

So, you favor repeal then?
I do.

#495 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 04:26 PM | Reply

Yes or no JeffJ.
Skip the bloviating and equivocating, just yes or no.

#496 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 04:28 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I do not favor a repeal.

#497 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 04:29 PM | Reply

At 4:26 you asked the question and at 4:28 you are demanding an answer?

One word for you: patience

#498 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 04:29 PM | Reply

Where's your outrage at the ableist slur that used daily on this site and directed at your President?

#494 | POSTED BY SENTINEL AT 2018-02-15 04:26 PM | FLAG:

Which one is that?

#499 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 04:32 PM | Reply

I do not favor a repeal.

#497 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-15 04:29 PM | FLAG:

Then congrats, you are part of the reason for all these dead kids.

#500 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 04:32 PM | Reply

Person 1: "When people say they are against Social Justice Warriors, I incredulously respond 'how can you be against social justice?'"

Person 2: "When people say they are against Child Molesters, I incredulously respond 'how can you be against children?!'"

#501 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-15 04:32 PM | Reply

#499, you know which one, ------.

#502 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-15 04:36 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

When people say they are against cunning linguists, I say...

#503 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-15 04:38 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

#497 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-15 04:29 PM | FLAG:
Then congrats, you are part of the reason for all these dead kids.

#500 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

Nope. But nice try.

#504 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 04:39 PM | Reply

Dirkoff

#505 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2018-02-15 04:41 PM | Reply

500

Boyd, that's pure troll material.

#506 | Posted by eberly at 2018-02-15 04:42 PM | Reply

Nope. But nice try.

#504 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-15 04:39 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

You absolutely are. You just said an Australia style ban would work but it can't pass because of people like yourself. It is on you and those like you.

#507 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 04:45 PM | Reply

#499, you know which one, ------.

#502 | POSTED BY SENTINEL AT 2018-02-15 04:36 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

No, I'm afraid I don't. But your bigotry is noted, so clearly you don't really care either way.

#508 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 04:45 PM | Reply

Nope.

An Australia type ban would create a whole host of negative, unintended consequences.

This is why I don't favor repealing the 2nd.

#509 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 04:48 PM | Reply

500
Boyd, that's pure troll material.

#506 | POSTED BY EBERLY

It is. But Cooper can't help himself.

#510 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 04:49 PM | Reply

"I do not favor a repeal."

Seeing as you said a repeal is the only thing that can stop school shootings, why?

Why is repeal worse than ongoing school shootings... which are really just the very obvious tip of the iceberg of all the other gun violence?

#511 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 04:50 PM | Reply

Comrade Dirk is being carved up by a bunch of conservative malcontents on this thread. Too funny.

#512 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-02-15 04:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"An Australia type ban would create a whole host of negative, unintended consequences."

Worse ones than weekly school shootings and constant gun violence, huh?

The kids are just acceptable losses to you.

#513 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 04:51 PM | Reply

"Well. Their media and their government isn't pumping them with fear anger and anxiety.
Plus. Canada is socialist. Which provides a better life for everyone. So, families aren't as stressed out."

Nah.

Some how Canada's gun laws prevent numerous shooting rampages like we have and they still have many gun owners.

Does anyone know exactly what the differences are between their guns laws and ours?

#514 | Posted by Tor at 2018-02-15 04:51 PM | Reply

Nice going liberals. Ban guns from schools. Make it a gun free zone. Don't allow teachers to carry. Blood is on your hands for not allowing good armed citizens in the zone to put down this kind of crap. If you think that making laws will make guns disappear you are foolish. Worked with drugs didn't it? Worked with alcohol during prohibition didn't it? Remove all guns and it will stop? Ever hear of Norway or France?

#515 | Posted by sames1 at 2018-02-15 04:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"An Australia type ban would create a whole host of negative, unintended consequences."

1. Such as?

2. Convince me they're worse than the status quo.

Feel free to draw from Australia's or any other experiences to make evidence-based assertions...

#516 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 04:53 PM | Reply

"Ever hear of Norway or France?"

Both way safer than the US? Yeah, I have.

#517 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 04:53 PM | Reply

Again.

Gun ownership is common in Canada but they don't have shooting rampages like America suffers.

What's so different about their gun laws?

#518 | Posted by Tor at 2018-02-15 04:55 PM | Reply

The United Kingdom is often held up as evidence of the effectiveness of gun control. After all, since 1920, the UK has experienced increasingly restrictive gun control, leading up to an almost-total ban on handguns, and even many shotguns.

And yet, the homicide rate increased for years after gun confiscation was put into effect:


mises.org

#519 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 04:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Does anyone know exactly what the differences are between their guns laws and ours?

#514 | POSTED BY TOR

Finally, someone raises a meaningful question.

#520 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 04:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The only thing standing in the way are the gun cultists. The rest of the population would vote for such a ban tomorrow if they could.

#467 | Posted by DirkStruan

Things aren't that binary.

And you need to get out of your bubble a bit more often.

BTW in regards to "ableist slur"...LOL shut up ------.

#521 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 05:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The only way to prevent these shootings is for an Australia-style gun-ban and the confiscation of roughly 300 million guns that are in the US.

The only way any of that is even remotely possible is to repeal the 2nd Amendment, just like the 21st (my favorite) repealed the 18th.

And, I would venture, the requirement of paying market value for the ceased property.

Unless they really want to go crazy and simply make on a felon if a certain window of time passes and they don't turn them in.

#522 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 05:05 PM | Reply

"Things aren't that binary."

Aren't they? He outlined the problem and admitted to being part of it.

"BTW in regards to "ableist slur"...LOL shut up ------."

Flagged offensive. Amazing how people who would never think of using the N-word on these forums are so unconcerned at using a slur just as vile.

#523 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 05:07 PM | Reply

One thing nobody's talking about here is how 3D printers will affect the issue...

#524 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-15 05:08 PM | Reply

Canada doesn't have a Second Amendment.
That kinda jumps off the page...

#525 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 05:08 PM | Reply

Yes or no JeffJ.
Skip the bloviating and equivocating, just yes or no.

#496 | Posted by snoofy

BWAAHAHAHAHHAHA FF.

#526 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 05:08 PM | Reply

Flagged offensive. Amazing how people who would never think of using the N-word on these forums are so unconcerned at using a slur just as vile.

#523 | Posted by DirkStruan

Of course you did.

Shut up ----- and just enjoy your free range organic antibiotic free soy latte with almond milk in a 70% post-recycled material cup.

-------.

#527 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 05:10 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

m.mic.com

#528 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 05:11 PM | Reply

WASHINGTON -- After a suspected gunman was accused of killing 17 people at a Florida school with a legally purchased AR-15 rifle, one of President Trump's early tweets about the horrific event focused not on gun control, but on mental health.

"So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior," Trump wrote Thursday morning on Twitter. "Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!"

What he didn't mention: In one of his early acts as president, Trump signed a measure passed by the Republican-led Congress that repealed an Obama-era regulation designed to block some mentally ill people from buying guns.

The reversal of the Obama regulation -- which would have required the Social Security Administration to report the records of some mentally ill beneficiaries to the FBI's background check system -- was one of just a string recent legislative victories for the powerful National Rifle Association.

Trump was one of the biggest beneficiaries of the NRA's spending in the last election, with the group pumping more than $31 million into advertising to boost his candidacy and to attack his Democratic rival, Hillary Clinton. The spending was remarkable because the NRA was the largest, well-established outside group to back Trump's unorthodox campaign.

In addition, more than $61 million in NRA money has gone to back current members of Congress, most of which benefited Republicans. Topping the list: Arizona Sen. John McCain, a former GOP presidential nominee, who benefited from $7.7 million in NRA spending over his political career, according to the Center's data.

www.usatoday.com

#529 | Posted by Corky at 2018-02-15 05:11 PM | Reply

Aren't they? He outlined the problem and admitted to being part of it.

No. You don't have pro-gun ban people and then gun fetishest nutjobs.

My guess is you've got a typical Gaussian curve of folks, owners and non-owners, in the middle who are rational and should be driving the conversation but are shutdown by the loons to the far minority extremes of the curves like yourself.

#530 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 05:12 PM | Reply

"Canada doesn't have a Second Amendment.
That kinda jumps off the page..."

They still have lots of guns but few if any rampages.

What are they doing to control guns that we aren't?

#531 | Posted by Tor at 2018-02-15 05:13 PM | Reply

One thing nobody's talking about is the benefit of making it more difficult for deranged, mentally ill teens from obtaining firearms.

It seems to be more about guarantees that this won't happen again. "Your proposal can't guarantee a stop to school shootings? Clearly, it won't work and is not worth discussing."

#532 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2018-02-15 05:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#528 | Posted by DirkStruan

Gosh with so much over flowing compassion for every single poor persecuted and down trodden group you must be taking hand fulls of pills a day to keep the depression in check and you safely on the bus instead of stepping in front of it.

#533 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 05:14 PM | Reply

A former GOP lawmaker's blunt words on gun control: ‘Republicans are not going to do anything'

www.washingtonpost.com

#534 | Posted by Corky at 2018-02-15 05:15 PM | Reply

What are they doing to control guns that we aren't?

#531 | Posted by Tor

Even better is what is different culturally and not just legally.

Do they fetishize military service and war?

Is violence glorified as much as it is here?

I tend to view this problem as two equal parts at its simplest-a deranged, rotten society with easy access to weapons.

#535 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 05:17 PM | Reply

Maybe the info is buried in here.

en.wikipedia.org

#536 | Posted by Tor at 2018-02-15 05:18 PM | Reply

"One thing nobody's talking about here is how 3D printers will affect the issue..."

I appreciate the irony that 3D printers can be legally restricted, but firearms printed with 3D printers are much less legally restrictable.

I'm kind of surprised Republicans in Congress haven't pre-emptively banned a 3D printer registry the same way they banned a Federal firearms registry.

Oh, that's another difference between us and Canada. Canada has a Federal firearms registry; that's illegal here.

#537 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 05:18 PM | Reply

Gosh with so much over flowing compassion for every single poor persecuted and down trodden group you must be taking hand fulls of pills a day to keep the depression in check and you safely on the bus instead of stepping in front of it.

#533 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2018-02-15 05:14 PM | FLAG:

Compassion doesn't cause depression, it treats it. Consider that your life lesson for the day.

#538 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 05:18 PM | Reply

"No. You don't have pro-gun ban people and then gun fetishest nut-jobs"

I never claimed otherwise. But you do have people who would repeal the second amendment and those who wouldn't, so my argument stands.

#539 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 05:21 PM | Reply

Dirk is a special kind of ------ lover.

#540 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-15 05:21 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

None of which will guarantee these shootings will never happen again.

Again. It's all or nothing for you.

So you're satisfied with weekly school shootings? Cause, apparently, unless we find a solution which guarantees these shootings will never happen again, there's nothing that can be done.

Like I said, deal in reality.

I am dealing with reality. Stop spewing nonsense. There are solutions which don't require completely confiscating guns.

#541 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-02-15 05:21 PM | Reply

#534

I appreciate the reporting pointing out NRAs contributions to Trump's advertising, ad that was significant and definitely beneficial to him, but the millions poured into Republican congressional coffers should be taken into contextual consideration: Those millions were provided over 20-25 years, so clearly not as stark an issue as the article would like the reader to believe. From my understanding, the largest single contribution to Republican congressman was $9,000 for a single election. Same congressman took in $50,000 From Exxon during same election cycle.

That's important context. What's more important is the notion that Republican congressmen don't necessitate NRA contributions to be whores for the NRA. Their constituents demand that as a requisite for party affiliation, making NRA the most supported organization without necessitating massive political payout. It's part of the culture, much like illegals are with Democratic party. /s

#542 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2018-02-15 05:22 PM | Reply

"What are they doing to control guns that we aren't?"

One locus of control is controlling the presence of guns in your household.

Canadians are much less apt to have a gun in the household. About five times less likely I'd say.

#543 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 05:23 PM | Reply

#515 | POSTED BY SAMES1

Please be one, just one of the Jack offs here that acknowledges there was an armed police officer on campus that was completely ineffectual to this circumstance.

To your point about teachers carrying guns: what's your solution? Allow teachers to carry guns in campus or require teachers to carry guns on campus?

#544 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2018-02-15 05:25 PM | Reply

"Canadians are much less apt to have a gun in the household. About five times less likely I'd say."

If that was all we could expect them to have fewer rampages but still have them.

There is something else at play.

#545 | Posted by Tor at 2018-02-15 05:26 PM | Reply

Why?
#492 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

I was quoting your post, not giving it a FF.

#546 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2018-02-15 05:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Oh, that's another difference between us and Canada. Canada has a Federal firearms registry; that's illegal here."

This might be the big difference.

#547 | Posted by Tor at 2018-02-15 05:27 PM | Reply

But you do have people who would repeal the second amendment and those who wouldn't, so my argument stands.

That's a fair point.

I'm guessing JPW imagines himself as one of the sane ones who supports the Second Amendment.

Is there even polling on this?

I can say, if the proxy is firearms in the household, most households don't have guns. But that's not quite the same as opposing the 2nd. Similarly, I could imagine owning a gun for safety while also favoring a gun ban for safety.

#548 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 05:28 PM | Reply

Comrade Dirk is being carved up by a bunch of conservative malcontents on this thread. Too funny.
#512 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

And you're just an old curmudgeon. Oh how I enjoy a good Retort.

#549 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2018-02-15 05:29 PM | Reply | Funny: 3

So this is obviously NOT a good time to talk a out gun control.

But to JPWs earlier point, it's OBVIOUSLY a good time to discuss paying for Trump's military parade, am I right?? Or am I right? Oooooor am I right?

#550 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2018-02-15 05:32 PM | Reply

This is a perfect time to talk about the need for better gun control and better mental health.

#551 | Posted by Tor at 2018-02-15 05:34 PM | Reply

I see a trend with some of these school shootings.

They(the shooters) are outcasts. They have issues.

Why arent we dealing with that as the root cause instead of the weapon?

Why?

#552 | Posted by boaz at 2018-02-15 05:36 PM | Reply

#551

Despite Trump's previous actions, including undermining B. Hussein's attempt to make it more difficult for mentally ill to obtain firearms, he just might agree with your latter suggestion.

#553 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2018-02-15 05:36 PM | Reply

Why?

#552 | POSTED BY BOAZ

Mainly because many folks, who you seem to ideologically support, are against the notion that bullying in schools is a significant factor to consider spending tax payer resources on to combat.

Save for the wife of POTUS who seems to be doing a smash up job combatting bullying online. She's doing some REAL good for our country. /s

#554 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2018-02-15 05:38 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

If we would just live with the 2nd, but repeal every other anti-gun-control measure Republicans have enacted, well, that would be A Good Start.

Maybe that would move the needle.

But then it would be harder -- not impossible, just harder -- for someone to gift a family member a shotgun.

So that's completely off the table, I daresay, for the overwhelming majority of gun owners.

#555 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 05:39 PM | Reply

There are solutions which don't require completely confiscating guns.
#541 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

I'm open to them. I even posted a solution in #383.

#556 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 05:39 PM | Reply

Given reality, I like the ideas posited from my link in #383.
#472 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-15 03:53 PM

Jeff. This is post #383

#378
I'm giving that a FF.
#383 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-15 01:29 PM

I'm actually interested in the ideas you like. Let me know which post your link is in.

#557 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-02-15 05:40 PM | Reply

#557

I already told him that and he still hasn't bothered looking up thread to figure it out.

Not sure if he's just being lazy or obfuscating.

#558 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2018-02-15 05:42 PM | Reply

"Why arent we dealing with that as the root cause instead of the weapon?"

Explain what you mean by "dealing with them."

Would a policy that revokes Second Amendment rights of those who need "dealing with" go too far?

#559 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 05:42 PM | Reply

Requiring ALL gun owners register their weapons with the local sheriffs department might be a good start.

#560 | Posted by Tor at 2018-02-15 05:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Clown,

#382

#561 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 05:45 PM | Reply

#561 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 05:45 PM

I meant to ask: How were your steaks last night?

#562 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-15 05:48 PM | Reply

Why arent we dealing with that as the root cause instead of the weapon?

Why?

#552 | POSTED BY BOAZ

Because if these people didn't have legal access to weapons specifically designed for warfare they likely wouldn't have been able to kill and maim the numbers of innocent people that they have. It's truly that simple.

AR-15s were built for a singular purpose: to project lethality across fields of armed conflict and battle. When mentally disturbed people are allowed access to such weapons, far too often mass shootings are one of the results. We've seen disturbed people commit mass knife attacks and while people are injured, we do not see multiple deaths. Guns are unique in the scope of lethality a single individual can deliver without any other assistance whatsoever.

These are all factors that need to be rationally discussed by citizens seeking to balance the rights of individuals to have firearms versus the rights of those choosing not to arm themselves to live safely and peaceably without the constant fear that someone's rights will end their own lives prematurely.

#563 | Posted by tonyroma at 2018-02-15 05:49 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 8

"Because if these people didn't have legal access to weapons specifically designed for warfare they likely wouldn't have been able to kill and maim the numbers of innocent people that they have. It's truly that simple." - #563 | Posted by tonyroma at 2018-02-15 05:49 PM

Wish I had more than just a single NW flag for this.

#564 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-15 05:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I meant to ask: How were your steaks last night?

#562 | POSTED BY HANS

Nicely seared and a perfect medium rare.

They came out great.

Thanks for asking.

#565 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 05:56 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

his is a perfect time to talk about the need for better gun control and better mental health.
#551 | Posted by Tor

Sure, go ahead and talk, talk till your blue in the face. ani't nothing gonna happen, but talking is great.

#566 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-02-15 05:56 PM | Reply

Tony,

I'm pretty sure the AR15 is not a military weapon.

Perhaps JPW or Sitzkrieg can shed some light.

#567 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 05:57 PM | Reply

An AI algorithm scanning social media would probably flush out 98% of mass shooters before they happen. Kinda like the Minority Report.

#568 | Posted by Daniel at 2018-02-15 05:57 PM | Reply

I see a trend with some of these school shootings.

They(the shooters) are outcasts. They have issues.

Did you also happen to notice that they all had access to deadly weapons?

Think maybe that had anything at all to do with it?

#569 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-02-15 05:57 PM | Reply

"I'm pretty sure the AR15 is not a military weapon."

My understanding was it was a civilian model of the old M-16, which is a military weapon.

#570 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 05:58 PM | Reply

#539 nope your argument is still the same pile of garbage it was before. There's just some different junk mov d to the top.

#571 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 05:59 PM | Reply

AR-15s were built for a singular purpose: to project lethality across fields of armed conflict and battle. When mentally disturbed people are allowed access to such weapons,

There aren't any awards for prose, tony.

Dial back the hysterics just a little, please.

#572 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 06:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Shooter was an outcast because he was violent, dangerous, and habitually threatened others when he wasn't peeping in neighbors windows or torturing animals.

His stays in mental facilities should have prevented him from buying a gun designed for a battlefield.

#573 | Posted by Tor at 2018-02-15 06:02 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

AR-15s were built for a singular purpose: to project lethality across fields of armed conflict and battle

Actually there is a second purpose: to make the user feel virile.

#574 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-02-15 06:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

My understanding was it was a civilian model of the old M-16, which is a military weapon.

#570 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

The big fundamental difference is that it's semi automatic and doesn't have the same bullet capacity of the M-16.

#575 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 06:05 PM | Reply

Once the topic has turned to the details of the type of gun used, the moment for possible change has passed.

#576 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-02-15 06:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Jeff.

Militarize our schools? Armed guards? This doesn't guarantee no more school shootings. It just makes it so more people are shooting. It may act as a deterrent. But. It may act as an incentive. As a challenge.

I like the part about barricading doors. Having drills to prepare for a school shooting.

But these aren't solutions to anything.

These are basically giving up. There's nothing we can do to prevent school shootings. So let's accept them as commonplace and prepare for them.

You're basically surrendering to school violence.

#577 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-02-15 06:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#539 nope your argument is still the same pile of garbage it was before. There's just some different junk mov d to the top.

#571 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2018-02-15 05:59 PM | REPLY | FLA

Yeah, you are wrong. You can prattle all you want about nuance, but at the end of the day, there are two types of people: those who would repeal (which would lead to a ban which would solve the problem) and those who wouldn't. The former would create a solution if they were not stopped from doing so by the latter. If every pro second amendment person in the country woke up one day and found they were fine with repeal and an Australian style gun ban, those things would be implemented and that would be that.

#578 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 06:07 PM | Reply

The big fundamental difference is that it's semi automatic and doesn't have the same bullet capacity of the M-16.

#575 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-15 06:05 PM | FLAG:

I don't know about ammo capacity but isn't the M-16 semiautomatic now too?

#579 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 06:08 PM | Reply

You're basically surrendering to school violence.

#577 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2018-02-15 06:07 PM | FLAG:

The conservative position in a nutshell.

#580 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 06:11 PM | Reply

"I'm pretty sure the AR15 is not a military weapon." - #567 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 05:57 PM

When I was in high school (1,000 years ago), the guys (and it was always guys) who drove the muscle cars were constantly complaining about the number of speeding tickets they had received, and how they were just 1 or 2 such tickets away from license suspension.

Never seemed to hear that complaint from the people who drove VWs, mom's station wagon, or the junker they were barely able to keep running.

Chapters 19-25 of John Grisham's Rogue Lawyer explain this phenomenon, as it relates to guns, to a "T."

#581 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-15 06:12 PM | Reply

It has a switch from semi automatic to 3 round burst. It's bullet capacity is 30.

#582 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 06:13 PM | Reply

Actually there is a second purpose: to make the user feel virile.

#574 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2018-02-15 06:04 PM | FLAG:

Seriously, what kind of culture is fine with scores of dead kids a week so that they can play Rambo at the range on weekends or kill some helpless deer or whatever?

#583 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 06:14 PM | Reply

The Colt AR-15 is a lightweight, 5.56×45mm, magazine-fed, gas-operated semi-automatic rifle. It was designed to be manufactured with the extensive use of aluminum alloys and synthetic materials. It is a semi-automatic version of the United States military M16 rifle.

en.wikipedia.org

No one is being hysterical, but if it takes hysterics to move this nation to meaningful gun reform, then count me in and you'll really see how I feel.

I'm not in denial as to the genesis of these weapons. The ammunition they use are designed to inflict maximum tissue damage and to render the wounded incapable of continuing the conflict. This is what they're designed for.

"One looks like a grenade went off in there," University of Arizona trauma surgeon Peter Rhee told Wired when comparing the damage done by AR-15 bullets and 9mm handgun bullets. "The other looks like a bad knife cut."

The reason that happens is pretty simple, and it's explained by physics. The bullet from an AR-15 rifle leaves the muzzle at three times the speed of a handgun bullet. That means it has plenty of energy to "distribute" inside the body upon collision.

It can disintegrate three inches of leg bone, turning it to "dust" according to Donald Jenkins, a trauma surgeon at the University of Texas Health Science Center. "The liver looks like a jello mold that's been dropped on the floor," if hit by the same bullet, Jenkins says. The exit would can be the size of an orange.

Comparatively, handgun bullets can be stopped by flesh and bone, and can pass through the body only to remain stuck in the skin.

Furthermore, AR-15 bullets don't just affect the skin and the tissue immediately under it. In addition to turning a bone to dust or liver into jello, the high energy would also cause damage around the entry and exit wounds.

When a high-velocity bullet pierces the body, human tissue can ripple just like water does when you throw an object in it. But it all happens at increased velocity. The bullet and its ensuing fragments might miss a critical artery, but the cavitation effect could tear through blood vessels.

Rhee also said that a handgun would require only one surgery, but an AR-15 bullet wound needs three to ten.

Because it's designed so well, the AR-15 fires almost without recoil, meaning that a shooter can inflict more damage with multiple bullets accurately hitting the same target. "The gun barely moves. You can sit there boom boom boom and reel off shots as fast as you can move your finger...."

bgr.com

These are design attributes that make this weapon superior for one thing: The delivery of trauma and death on a potentially large scale which is precisely what's needed on a battlefield during combat.

#584 | Posted by tonyroma at 2018-02-15 06:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

These are basically giving up. There's nothing we can do to prevent school shootings. So let's accept them as commonplace and prepare for them.
You're basically surrendering to school violence.

#577 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

They are not giving up, they are simply preparing in case it happens. It wouldn't have to be the ONLY solution, but as you acknowledged, the preparation aspect of it makes sense.

#585 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 06:15 PM | Reply

" Actually there is a second purpose: to make the user feel virile." - #574 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-02-15 06:04 PM

Reference my #581.

#586 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-15 06:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

'No way to prevent this,' says only nation where this regularly happens

#587 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-15 06:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

The reason that happens is pretty simple, and it's explained by physics. The bullet from an AR-15 rifle leaves the muzzle at three times the speed of a handgun bullet.

Comparing an AR15 against a handgun?

Apples and oranges.

A more illustrative comparison would be against other rifles.

#588 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 06:18 PM | Reply

Yeah Tony, I don't need a c&p to tell me what I know.

It's still just hysterics. Nothing more nothing less, which is why you didn't mention one of the primary reasons for adopting the 5.56.

Can you take a guess as to what that was?

#589 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 06:18 PM | Reply

#589 | POSTED BY JPW

I just tried reading an article outlining the differences between the 5.56 and .223.

WAY too techy for this noggin.

#590 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 06:22 PM | Reply

"Seriously, what kind of culture is fine with scores of dead kids a week so that they can play Rambo at the range on weekends or kill some helpless deer or whatever?"

I wouldn't say they're fine with it, they just think the cure is worse than the disease

They can't articulate the specific problems with the cure, but they sure are convinced it's very, very bad. They also do a good job of reinforcing that belief within their culture. "Cold dead hands" and all that.

#591 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 06:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"I wouldn't say they're fine with it, they just think the cure is worse than the disease
They can't articulate the specific problems with the cure, but they sure are convinced it's very, very bad."

I suppose that is what I am really asking. Jeffy pointed to that murder rate in the UK thing, so there is that...

#592 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 06:25 PM | Reply

I'm not professing to be a technical expert JPW, so the details are irrelevant to me. The bodily harm and damage is what concerns me. I don't believe all those innocent victims of AR-15 attacks would care about 5.56 either. All their families know is that they're burying loved ones before they ever intended to because a mentally unstable otherwise coward with an AR-15 has the legal right to bear an arm originally designed for military use.

Go ahead and fetishize your superior weaponry knowledge if it keeps you warm on winter nights. I truly could care less.

#593 | Posted by tonyroma at 2018-02-15 06:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Found this:

AR-15-style rifles are no more powerful than other hunting rifles of the same caliber and in most cases are chambered in calibers less powerful than common big-game hunting cartridges like the 30-06 Springfield and .300 Win. Mag.

www.nssf.org

#594 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 06:26 PM | Reply

I am not sure why people zone in on the AR-15 when 90% of all gun homicides are committed with handguns.

#595 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 06:30 PM | Reply

In any case, Tony, by your standards just about every modern hunting bullet is a "weapon of war". The ballistic concepts behind the 5.56 are no different from that of larger, heavier bullets not used by the military.

Check YouTube for a video of ballistics gel tests on various billets. Cavitation is normal and desired as tissue damage is what actually kills; it's the reason why certain hunting rounds with hardened tips shouldn't be used within a certain range.

The excess energy coupled with the hardened tip will mean the bullet won't expand and will simply pass straight through, resulting in either a slow inhumane kill or survival of the animal.

#596 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 06:31 PM | Reply

I'm not professing to be a technical expert JPW, so the details are irrelevant to me.

Translation: I just want to spout off and don't care about rational, informed discussion. Oh, and you better believe me and agree or else your a gun fetishist!

The bodily harm and damage is what concerns me.

Which isn't that different from that of hunting bullets that have been in existence for over a century.

All their families know is that they're burying loved ones before they ever intended to because a mentally unstable otherwise coward with an AR-15 has the legal right to bear an arm originally designed for military use.

I'd doubt they're thinking about the AR15 right now, either.

Go ahead and fetishize your superior weaponry knowledge if it keeps you warm on winter nights. I truly could care less.

#593 | Posted by tonyroma

And this is why I don't even know why I bother.

If you want to just spout ignorant nonsense because it makes you feel better in your emotional state, go for it.

Just stop asking to be taken seriously.

#597 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 06:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"one of the primary reasons for adopting the 5.56.
Can you take a guess as to what that was?"

KE = 1/2 mv^2 results in a superior wound channel owing to a lighter, faster, more spalling bullet at higher energy.

It also reduces the weight of the weapons platform itself, allowing for improved combat mobility and downrage accuracy and lethality.

Was I close?

#598 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 06:35 PM | Reply

I am not sure why people zone in on the AR-15 when 90% of all gun homicides are committed with handguns.

#595 | Posted by JeffJ

Maybe because it keeps showing up in America's deadliest mass shootings?

#599 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-02-15 06:35 PM | Reply

Handgun homicide rates vary considerably from state to state.

This is a nice chart:

money.cnn.com

#600 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 06:37 PM | Reply

"I am not sure why people zone in on the AR-15"

It's the weapon in this instance of Second Amendment rights being misused. Also, it's fairly popular among school shooters.

(When kids start killing their classmates with loose change in socks, we will start talking about loose change in socks. Until then...)

#601 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 06:39 PM | Reply

Oh boy!
Did you hear the news,(so exciting)
The shooter may not have been a militia member after all!
That means this was just an ordinary mass murdering, (so interesting) so no big whoop

Sincerely

Jeffjtoecentreberlygnoleschairbound

#602 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2018-02-15 06:39 PM | Reply

Was I close?

#598 | Posted by snoofy

You should cite your sources...

In any case, yes. Smaller round meant you carried more per man. The vast majority of what us fired by an infantryman is suppressing fire, not direct fire.

More rounds=more effective infantry unit.

As for the "superior wound channel" I'm not so sure about that. It's a lethal wound channel in a smaller package but I'd doubt a 30-06 or .308 hits less hard.

#603 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 06:40 PM | Reply

"Translation: I just want to spout off and don't care about rational, informed discussion. Oh, and you better believe me and agree or else your a gun fetishist!"

And here we have JPW once again claiming one has to be a gun expert to even discuss gun control. Awfully convenient.

#604 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 06:41 PM | Reply

And here we have JPW once again claiming one has to be a gun expert to even discuss gun control. Awfully convenient.

#604 | Posted by DirkStruan

Let's just start with having some level of knowledge, ok?

Can we do that, at least? Please?

#605 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 06:45 PM | Reply

Can we all agree that eighteen is too young to legally purchase an AR-15?

#606 | Posted by Zed at 2018-02-15 06:46 PM | Reply

"Sure, go ahead and talk, talk till your blue in the face. ani't nothing gonna happen, but talking is great."

School has 3,000 students and the community is rich.

This may be what finally makes gun control a reality in America.

#607 | Posted by Tor at 2018-02-15 06:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"The ballistic concepts behind the 5.56 are no different from that of larger, heavier bullets not used by the military."

What are "ballistic concepts?"

It sounds like a company that produces TactiCool Accessories...

#608 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 06:47 PM | Reply

" I tend to view this problem as two equal parts at its simplest-a deranged, rotten society with easy access to weapons.

#535 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2018-02-15 05:17 PM | REPLY

Add in a congress so gerrymandered they dont have to do anything, and here we are.

#609 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-02-15 06:48 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

School has 3,000 students and the community is rich.

This may be what finally makes gun control a reality in America.

Posted by Tor at 2018-02-15 06:46 PM | Reply

Sandy Hook IS affluent too. Not gonna happen in this cowardly society.

#610 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-15 06:49 PM | Reply

"You should cite your sources..."

I alluded to Newton, the rest is obvious from that precept...

#611 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 06:51 PM | Reply

"Sandy Hook IS affluent too. Not gonna happen in this cowardly society." - #610 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-15 06:49 PM

Perhaps, Laura.

But the 4, 5 and 6-year-old survivors of Sandy Hook (at the time) were nowhere as boisterous as high school students.

Plus, while there were no while-it-was-happening phone videos (with sound) during Sandy Hook, video and sound from yesterday's massacre are already out there.

One can hope.

#612 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-15 06:54 PM | Reply

Sandy Hook IS affluent too. Not gonna happen in this cowardly society.

#610 | Posted by LauraMohr

Not only is not going to happen but the NRA is still pushing to weaken our gun laws in the states.

Tell the Senate to reject the dangerous 'concealed carry reciprocity' act
www.startribune.com

Nationwide concealed carry bill for gun owners is worrisome, cops say

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2018/02/cops_in_new_jersey_react_to_concealed_carry_recipr.html

Bill for nationwide concealed carry permit rights moves forward
Bill would let concealed carry permits holders carry in any state

www.wsls.com

#613 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-02-15 06:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Let's just start with having some level of knowledge, ok?"

You mean like, correct JeffJ #582; bullets are what come out of the business end of a gun, but cartridges or "rounds" are what goes in.

Seems pedantic. Everybody knows what he means.

#614 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 06:57 PM | Reply

"Sandy Hook IS affluent too. Not gonna happen in this cowardly society."

Sandy Hook didn't have 3000 students.

#615 | Posted by Tor at 2018-02-15 07:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

dame judi dench's secret woodland‏
@markpopham

Every time another one of these mass shootings happen - right when the Republicans start telling us that the answer is more guns, guns for everyone, guns for teachers, guns for students - I think about Chris Kyle.

Chris Kyle was the American Sniper guy - a highly decorated Navy Seal sniper with 150 confirmed kills in the Iraq War. Whatever else is true about him, he definitely was very good at shooting guns and used to being in combat environments.

On February 2nd, 2013, Kyle and a friend took a 25 year old Marine veteran to a shooting range, in the hope of helping him with his PTSD. On the way Kyle realized that the guy was dangerous, and texted his friend as such; the friend replied affirmatively

If this was a movie the 25 year old would have freaked out and drawn a weapon, and Kyle would have shot him or shot the gun out of his hand or held him at gunpoint. But it wasn't a movie.

What actually happened was a Navy Seal military sniper and his friend were both shot to death with Kyle's own guns. Both of them were armed, and neither had time to even unholster their weapons.

Kyle knew that the man he was with was dangerous. He knew he was armed - he armed him! To the degree that anyone could be forewarned and prepared for a situation, Kyle was. And yet the other guy shot two armed and trained men dead, got in a car and drove away.

I can spend the rest of my life at a gun range and not have the facility with firearms that Chris Kyle did. So how the ---- is a gun going to help me, or a terrified social studies teacher, because it doesn't look like it did ---- for him.

No amount of training and no gun on your belt is going to let you dodge a bullet or keep it from ripping the life out of you. Every student and teacher at that school could have been trained military personnel with access to weapons and that many people could have still died

I never meant to imply that Chris Kyle had somehow failed, in any way, to protect himself, but that the assumption that we must all be constantly prepared to fend off gunfire is impossible even for the best prepared of us

#616 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-15 07:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It's worth noting that the past several years have seen an expansion of gun rights.

Most states are "Shall Issue" now.
The Assault Weapons ban is long dead.
Concealed carry has made its way to colleges.
It's harder to disarm mentally ill people.
It's impossible to disarm terror suspects just for being on the No Fly List (though that may never have been possible).

I'm sure JPW or Et_Al can expand the list.

#617 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 07:04 PM | Reply

POSTED BY JPW

You project as much as a movie theatre. I did not address this issue as a personal affront to those who may not agree with me. You on the other hand went emotional on your first retort finding hyperbole in facts.

Addressing the unnecessary deaths of innocent children and adults is indeed an emotional issue, but the nuts and bolts relating to ordinance is not. The hows and whys are not as relevant as the actual damage and results imo.

Keep attacking me for it only diminishes your opinions in the eyes of the objective trying to find our way out of the morass a 18th Century amendment causes when faced with 20th/21st Century weaponry. Firepower which was unimaginable to those who first codified the law, along with our society frozen in disagreement in seeking common sense efforts to amend the interpretations that leave innocent people maimed or killed due to the illegal expression of a constitutionally protected right - up to the point a law is actually broken.

#618 | Posted by tonyroma at 2018-02-15 07:05 PM | Reply

#584 | Posted by tonyroma

Anecdotal BS hawking the "weapon of war" meme.

There are rifle rounds with more destructive capacity than 5.56. www.gunnersden.com

There are handgun rounds with more destructive capacity than 9mm. www.gunnersden.com

None of those rounds depend on the design characteristics of the weapon that fires them for their destructive capacity.

#619 | Posted by et_al at 2018-02-15 07:23 PM | Reply

#619

Be sure and tell that to all the families who've lost loved ones to AR-15 mass shootings.

I'm sure they'll feel better knowing they could have been killed or maimed by more superior ordinance.

You really shock me et_al.

#620 | Posted by tonyroma at 2018-02-15 07:27 PM | Reply

"There are rifle rounds with more destructive capacity than 5.56"

The fact that our troops overwhelmingly shoot 5.56 when its time to shoot rifles at bad guys tells me you're not saying much here.

We've discussed this; AR-15 in 5.56 is going to be easier for the average school shooter to score kills with than M-14 in 7.62. Because it's lighter and therefore easier to manipulate, and because of potentially higher capacity and faster magazine change. Frankly the M-14 (and most any American 7.62, e.g. not an AK) is just poorly suited for CQB; it's too big and overpowered against unarmored targets e.g. kids.

But don't take my word for it, consult the ghosts of Adam Lanza or John Muhammad and ask them what drew them to the AR-15.

#621 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 07:44 PM | Reply

#620

If you don't want to be shocked by facts don't bring up ignorant comparisons.

#622 | Posted by et_al at 2018-02-15 07:56 PM | Reply

Let's just start with having some level of knowledge, ok?
Can we do that, at least? Please?
#605 | Posted by jpw

I've posted this probably a dozen times.

Chapter 15 - In-Depth Explanation of Firearms and Ammunition

#623 | Posted by et_al at 2018-02-15 08:00 PM | Reply

#622 | POSTED BY ET_AL

Among the victims in Las Vegas were 36 women and 22 men; 51 were killed by a single shot, while seven were hit by multiple rounds; 34 suffered fatal gunshot wounds to the body, while 21 were struck in the head or neck and three were struck in their extremities. In addition, 851 people were injured in the attack, including 422 who suffered non-fatal wounds from gunfire.

With bullets exiting the shooter's weapons at a velocity of about 3,000 feet per second ― about three times as fast as a bullet fired out of a handgun ― and spinning at thousands of revolutions per second, the consequences for anyone hit directly were dire.

"You've got a relatively small cross-sectional area with a tremendous amount of kinetic energy lined up behind it, so that just penetrates," said Arthur Alphin, a ballistics expert and former West Point professor who has testified in a number of multiple shooting cases.

The autopsies describe bullets carving through flesh, leaving massive trauma in their wake. One victim suffered a gunshot wound to the left upper back. The round appeared to be tumbling end over end at the moment of impact, said Alphin, likely a sign that the gunman's weapon had begun to overheat from firing so rapidly, sending the bullet on an unstable trajectory out of an expanded barrel.

After being struck in the back, the round coursed through the woman's body, ricocheting off a rib and perforating her left lung before stopping between her eight and ninth vertebrae, where a medical examiner recovered the bullet.

The autopsy for the woman described at the beginning of this article shows she was shot in the forearm. The bullet passed through her arm twice and then entered her body.

"I'm thinking that this person had their arm up at the shoulder, but bent back at the elbow, as if scratching their ear or trying to shield their eyes or keep a hat from flying off their head," said Alphin.

It's also possible she was trying to shield herself.

Another report describes a woman who was struck in the head. As with the other victims who suffered direct shots to the head, the impact caused "instant death," Alphin said.

"The only good thing is she didn't suffer. She felt no pain at all," he said. "Some of those others, even though they died with the chest cavity wounds, they survived on the ground for 60 to 90 seconds, their heart continued to beat, the blood filled up into the pleural cavity and the thoracic cavity, their brain was still functioning, and they knew they were dying and they were in pain. At least this poor woman, it was instant."

www.huffingtonpost.com

There are rifle rounds with more destructive capacity than 5.56.
There are handgun rounds with more destructive capacity than 9mm.
None of those rounds depend on the design characteristics of the weapon that fires them for their destructive capacity.

Where did I argue that the 5.56 was "more destructive" than any other ordinance? I didn't, I posted an article documenting it's particular lethality and the doctors quoted compared them to a 9mm handgun's bullets. THEY made the comparison without qualification or claim that the AR-15 was somehow the worst.

If you would have noticed, the argument was based on the VELOCITY of the round fired by the AR-15, not it's particular caliber. But in order to do that, you would have had to read the article as written. The comparisons are what they are, not what you're trying to misrepresent them as. And they are as factual as the non-related dreck you just posted.

#624 | Posted by tonyroma at 2018-02-15 08:11 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I didn't, I posted an article documenting it's particular lethality and the doctors quoted compared them to a 9mm handgun's bullets

You emphasized sections that make the bullet sound like a magic death ray destructor of the universe.

When really it's just a bullet doing what bullets are designed to do.

#625 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 08:18 PM | Reply

#624

You posted it to support the BS "weapon of war" meme.

The charts I posted list the velocities and the energy of pretty much every caliber of round available. Some are more and some are less powerful than either the 5.56 or 9mm the good doctor waxed poetically about.

#626 | Posted by et_al at 2018-02-15 08:27 PM | Reply

What are "ballistic concepts?"

It sounds like a company that produces TactiCool Accessories...

#608 | Posted by snoofy

It's all about weight, mass and aerodynamic relations to ensure desirable trajectories, energy delivery and flight stability.

And LOL at the TactiCool.

#627 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 08:27 PM | Reply

You emphasized sections that make the bullet sound like a magic death ray destructor of the universe.
When really it's just a bullet doing what bullets are designed to do.

#625 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2018-02-15 08:18 PM | FLAG:

....which is kill. Something which sets guns apart from other items that are lethal to human beings only incidentally.

#628 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 08:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Actually, I'm serious about what I proposed at #317 to break the NRA hold on our legislators:
We each send our Senators and Representative a letter: "If you vote with the NRA's position on even one (1) bill, I will never vote for you again." And when he/she votes with the NRA anyway, send a second letter: "Now I will never vote for you again." Then actually don't ever vote for that legislator again. Repeat with any new legislator we get. Since 2/3 of adult Americans do not own a gun, we should eventually be able to retire the NRA from legislative influence.

#629 | Posted by nimbleswitch at 2018-02-15 08:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

The minutiae you guys are debating is absurd.

Does all your gun knowledge help the families of the dead students sleep better at night?

Cause. All your posturing is gross.

Congratulations. You know a lot about guns!

There's cookies and punch waiting for you next to the corpses.

Don't mind the dead kids.

They're collateral damage for our awesomeness.

#630 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-02-15 08:32 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

....which is kill. Something which sets guns apart from other items that are lethal to human beings only incidentally.

#628 | Posted by DirkStruan

You ever handle a long sword?

Besides, I've never denied bullets are intended to kill.

In fact, I quite clearly stated that above when pointing out that the 5.56 is no more or less lethal than your typical hunting round which is designed to function the same way.

#631 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 08:35 PM | Reply

When really it's just a bullet doing what bullets are designed to do.

Be a paper weight? Be used as jewelry?

Other than being used to kill something, or be used to practice your aim so you can be a better shot, what else is a bullet designed to do?

#632 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-02-15 08:36 PM | Reply

#630 | Posted by ClownShack

Yeah, let's just spout of uninformed inanities and feel like we're doing something! That'll help fix this!

Honestly, I finally have to admit that you guys have converted me. I'm now an Emotional and I'm sooooo fired up about this I won't quit until we elect a gay black asian disabled woman to POTUS and she takes her oath of office sitting in a chair of AR15s melted together with dragon fire.

#633 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 08:39 PM | Reply

"You ever handle a long sword?"

Are you hitting on me?

"Besides, I've never denied bullets are intended to kill."

Of course not. I was just saying that some people do like to argue along the lines that if we ban guns we should ban, say, cars which are of course much more lethal (in the US, at least).

#634 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 08:39 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Other than being used to kill something, or be used to practice your aim so you can be a better shot, what else is a bullet designed to do?

#632 | Posted by ClownShack

Look above you.

#635 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 08:40 PM | Reply

"I'm now an Emotional and I'm sooooo fired up about this I won't quit until we elect a gay black asian disabled woman to POTUS and she takes her oath of office sitting in a chair of AR15s melted together with dragon fire."

You joke, but what exactly would be bad about any of that?

#636 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 08:40 PM | Reply

#625

Sorry if that was what you took from it. I posted it as specific to what the AR-15 rifle was designed to do with the ordinance it uses since that is the weapon specifically in debate at the moment. To my knowledge, no one tried to present the information in any other context but for the reality of what damage it's capable of doing since it's become the weapon of choice for mass shootings, not 9mm handguns or other rifles which might be more lethal than the AR.

I don't find it relevant to discuss that other weapons can be more lethal when looking at the existent carnage directly caused by ARs, and reciting the experiences of those who've dealt with injuries caused by them. That information stands on its own, imo.

And if the argument is that the AR is being hyperbolized as a "weapon of war" perhaps you should take it up with the original designers of the first AR:

The ArmaLite AR-15 is a select-fire, 5.56×45mm, air-cooled, gas-operated, magazine-fed rifle, with a rotating bolt and straight-line recoil design. It was designed by Eugene Stoner, Jim Sullivan and Bob Fremont and it is based on the ArmaLite AR-10 rifle. The AR-15 was designed above all else to be a lightweight rifle, and to fire a new lightweight, high-velocity small caliber cartridge to allow the infantrymen to carry more ammunition.[4]

In 1958, ArmaLite submitted 10 AR-15 and 100 25-round magazines for CONARC testing.[6] The tests found that a 5- to 7-man team armed with AR-15s has the same firepower as 11-man team armed with M14s.[35] That soldiers armed with AR-15s could carry three times more ammunition as those armed with M14s (649 rounds vs 220 rounds).[36] And, that the AR-15 was three times more reliable than the M14 rifle.[6] en.wikipedia.org

The gun was designed for infantrymen to carry in combat, hence a weapon of war is indeed a factual description.

#637 | Posted by tonyroma at 2018-02-15 08:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Honestly, I finally have to admit that you guys have converted me. I'm now an Emotional and I'm sooooo fired up about this I won't quit until we elect a gay black asian disabled woman to POTUS and she takes her oath of office sitting in a chair of AR15s melted together with dragon fire.

Mmmmm.... that's good hyperbole.

#638 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-02-15 08:42 PM | Reply

"I'm now an Emotional and I'm sooooo fired up about this I won't quit until we elect a gay black asian disabled woman to POTUS and she takes her oath of office sitting in a chair of AR15s melted together with dragon fire."

Alyssa Alhadeff, Martin Duque Anguiano, Nicholas Dworet, Aaron Feis, Jaime Guttenberg, Christopher Hixon, Luke Hoyer, Gina Montalto, Joaquin Oliver, Alaina Petty, Meadow Pollack, Helena Ramsay, Alex Schachter, Carmen Schentrup, and Peter Wang thank you for your support.

Oh wait, no they don't, those sorry bastards are all dead. Like you are, on the inside.

#639 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 08:56 PM | Reply

The gun was designed for infantrymen to carry in combat, hence a weapon of war is indeed a factual description.

Many modern weapons can be historically traced to the military. That characteristic has no bearing on lethality.

The "weapon of war" meme came about, at least as far as I know, after Sandy Hook. The lawyer that sued the manufacturers etc. attempted to use it as a way around the PLCAA. It didn't work.

#640 | Posted by et_al at 2018-02-15 09:35 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Oh wait, no they don't, those sorry bastards are all dead. Like you are, on the inside.

#639 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Yawn

In a few weeks, tell me how your "you're wrong -------" approach works this time to make progress towards solving this issue, ok?

#641 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 09:39 PM | Reply

A few weeks?
You want me to wait for like five more school shootings then?

#642 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 09:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Many modern weapons can be historically traced to the military. That characteristic has no bearing on lethality.

Can't you ever admit when you've stuck your foot into your mouth? The gun was CREATED for an express military purpose. The very characteristics that make it so popular with mass shooters are the same as those wanted by the US military when CONARC requested such a weapon in 1957. It was designed to be more lethal and to increase actual per-man-firepower compared to the weapon it was created to replace. The gun was lighter, as is its ammunition, and the ordinance was smaller caliber yet traveled at a higher velocity. A single person can carry more bullets in comparison to the M14. These specifications are why it was created.

The rifle was invented to be more lethal, so yes its characteristics have a direct bearing on its ability to project lethality.

#643 | Posted by tonyroma at 2018-02-15 09:57 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The "weapon of war" meme came about, at least as far as I know, after Sandy Hook. The lawyer that sued the manufacturers etc. attempted to use it as a way around the PLCAA. It didn't work.

#640 | POSTED BY ET_AL AT 2018-02-15 09:35 PM | FLAG:

And you could barely disguise your glee. Don't want the families of dead kids getting money, after all. That would be wrong.

#644 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 09:59 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

In a few weeks, tell me how your "you're wrong -------" approach works this time to make progress towards solving this issue, ok?

#641 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2018-02-15 09:39 PM | FLAG:

You and people like you could basically solve the problem. All it would take is changing your mind and voting accordingly. But you won't (for some reason), so the best we can hope for is apparently half measures while the body count climbs ever upward.

#645 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 10:02 PM | Reply

"Many modern weapons can be historically traced to the military. That characteristic has no bearing on lethality." - #640 | Posted by et_al at 2018-02-15 09:35 PM

The military wants weapons of love, not weapons of "lethality"?

Perhaps they want weapons of "Do you really want to hurt me"

#646 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-15 10:04 PM | Reply

You joke, but what exactly would be bad about any of that?

#636 | Posted by DirkStruan

Since I could care less about their sexuality, gender, ability status, *insert identity politics here* whatever it would all depend on policy for me.

It would also be nice if they hadn't racked up a history of stiffing contractors, scamming people and being otherwise all around crappy human beings.

#647 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 10:04 PM | Reply

So military weapons aren't better?

Stick to lawyering before you jump the shark, dude.

#648 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2018-02-15 10:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

A few weeks?
You want me to wait for like five more school shootings then?

#642 | Posted by snoofy

Fair point. Probably more like 3.

Anyways, point being the shrillness of both sides insisting they're right is the largest roadblock to solving the issue as it leads to both sides accepting nothing less than the most extreme positions their side holds.

Meanwhile, as you note, kids keep dying.

#649 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 10:06 PM | Reply

"Since I could care less about their sexuality, gender, ability status, *insert identity politics here* whatever it would all depend on policy for me."

That's mighty white of you.

#650 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 10:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The rifle was invented to be more lethal, so yes its characteristics have a direct bearing on its ability to project lethality.

#643 | Posted by tonyroma

Nooooope. Still wrong, Tony.

Keep digging, though. It's pretty amusing.

#651 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 10:08 PM | Reply

"Anyways, point being the shrillness of both sides insisting they're right "

Oh I get it.
You posted shrill harpy post #633 just so you could decry it as useless and counterproductive with #649.
Your leading by both example and counterexample!

#652 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 10:11 PM | Reply

Anyone care to educate me on why the military uses a gun very much like the AR-15 and not these supposedly more lethal hunting guns I keep hearing about?

#653 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 10:11 PM | Reply

"Meanwhile, as you note, kids keep dying."

Meanwhile, there's literally nothing you can imagine that could convince you repealing the Second Amendment would ever be an appropriate course of action.

#654 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 10:12 PM | Reply

The military wants weapons of love, not weapons of "lethality"?

I swear those arguing with et_al are being willfully stupid or genius trolls.

The point is that a mass shooter using an AR15 or an M14 or an M1 Garand would get the same result as one using a Mini14 or any other semi-automatic rifle.

Shoot a 5.56 out of anything you like, military design or otherwise, and it will have the same effect.

#655 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 10:13 PM | Reply

"Anyone care to educate me on why the military uses a gun very much like the AR-15 and not these supposedly more lethal hunting guns I keep hearing about?"

Often, the things you hunt are bigger than people, so a more lethal round is indicated.

Like, if you're Donald Trump Jr. shooting an elephant, you probably can't kill it with a 9mm round to the head, like if you're killing a small human child.

#656 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 10:14 PM | Reply

Oh I get it.
You posted shrill harpy post #633

It's not my fault you look and sound like an idiot.

Meanwhile, there's literally nothing you can imagine that could convince you repealing the Second Amendment would ever be an appropriate course of action.

#654 | Posted by snoofy

Probably because that's the nuclear option.

Which only supports my contention that the extremes , *holds up a mirror for Snoofy*, are the biggest impediment to progress.

#657 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 10:15 PM | Reply

Anyone care to educate me on why the military uses a gun very much like the AR-15 and not these supposedly more lethal hunting guns I keep hearing about?

#653 | Posted by DirkStruan

That's actually a really easy question if you're not be snarky.

#658 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 10:16 PM | Reply

I swear those arguing with et_al are being willfully stupid or genius trolls.

Are you new here?

That's the only thing they do, every single post, every single day.

#659 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-15 10:16 PM | Reply

Military guns are designed either to kill people or destroy defenses.

Hunting rifles are designed to kill dumb animals.

#660 | Posted by Tor at 2018-02-15 10:17 PM | Reply

"Probably because that's the nuclear option."

But why? Why do you feel this way? If this were about... I don't know... standards for food safety, you wouldn't bat an eye. But because it involves this ill conceived "right" to guns, it is a hill to die on.

#661 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 10:19 PM | Reply

"The point is that a mass shooter using an AR15 or an M14 or an M1 Garand would get the same result as one using a Mini14 or any other semi-automatic rifle."

No, especially not the Garand, which requires reload after eight shots as opposed to thirty on the AR.
The AR is clearly the optimal choice; it has the lowest weight, highest capacity, shortest barrel, and more than sufficient lethality against unarmored adversaries.

#662 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 10:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

But why? Why do you feel this way? If this were about... I don't know... standards for food safety, you wouldn't bat an eye. But because it involves this ill conceived "right" to guns, it is a hill to die on.

#661 | Posted by DirkStruan

Really? You're comparing a Constitutional amendment to a bureaucratic agency's policy?

That's not even apples and footballs.

#663 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 10:21 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Military guns are designed either to kill people or destroy defenses.
Hunting rifles are designed to kill dumb animals.

#660 | POSTED BY TOR AT 2018-02-15 10:17 PM | FLAG:

So which is "more lethal?" Surely the question involves more than Etsy's little ballistics lesson...

#664 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 10:21 PM | Reply

"Probably because that's the nuclear option."

A repeal of the Second Amendment isn't the same as a Federal ban on firearm weapons.
Had that not occurred to you until this very moment?

#665 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 10:21 PM | Reply

The AR is clearly the optimal choice; it has the lowest weight, highest capacity, shortest barrel, and more than sufficient lethality against unarmored adversaries.

What about non "military style" semi-autos? They would significantly under perform as well?

#666 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 10:22 PM | Reply

Really? You're comparing a Constitutional amendment to a bureaucratic agency's policy?
That's not even apples and footballs.

#663 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2018-02-15 10:21 PM | FLAG:

You didn't answer my question. Why is appealing the second amendment such a big deal to you?

#667 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-15 10:23 PM | Reply

"Shoot a 5.56 out of anything you like, military design or otherwise, and it will have the same effect."

Okay, but you only listed one rifle that shoots 5.56; it's the AR.
The M14 and Garand shoot 7.62.
So there's that.

#668 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 10:27 PM | Reply

So which is "more lethal?" Surely the question involves more than Etsy's little ballistics lesson...

#664 | Posted by DirkStruan

If you had a shred of reading comprehension you would have known by now that neither is more lethal.

As for you, douchestruan, I don't think I've ever met someone so smugly sure of themselves but so full of ----. Damn even Boaz makes better arguments than you.

#669 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 10:27 PM | Reply

Okay, but you only listed one rifle that shoots 5.56; it's the AR.
The M14 and Garand shoot 7.62.
So there's that.

The Mini 14 shoots 5.56 (well, .223 actually). It's a "mini" version of the M14, get it?

So it's the round itself you have an issue with and not the gun itself?

What about an AR10 that shoots 7.62?

#670 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 10:30 PM | Reply

"That's not even apples and footballs."

Would you say it's like trying to fire a 5.56 cartridge down a 7.62 caliber barrel?

Dirk, this might answer your questions. www.swggun.org

#671 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 10:30 PM | Reply

Wow. Almost 700 posts and nothing new from the last 700 post mass shooting thread.

#672 | Posted by REDIAL at 2018-02-15 10:31 PM | Reply

You didn't answer my question. Why is appealing the second amendment such a big deal to you?

#667 | Posted by DirkStruan

Because I take rights seriously and tend to not be so emotional as to want to jump straight to the most destructive (and difficult) option.

From a practical standpoint you'll get no where so why even bother with the approach?

#673 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 10:34 PM | Reply

The Mini 14 shoots 5.56 (well, .223 actually).

My Mini-14 ate 5.56 like popcorn.

#674 | Posted by REDIAL at 2018-02-15 10:35 PM | Reply

A repeal of the Second Amendment isn't the same as a Federal ban on firearm weapons.
Had that not occurred to you until this very moment?

#665 | Posted by snoofy

You're right, they're not the same thing.

However, one must happen before the other can.

#675 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 10:36 PM | Reply

My Mini-14 ate 5.56 like popcorn.

#674 | Posted by REDIAL

Hmmmm I didn't think they were chambered for the higher pressures of 5.56.

*shrug* learn something new every day.

#676 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 10:36 PM | Reply

Wow. Almost 700 posts and nothing new from the last 700 post mass shooting thread.
#672 | Posted by REDIAL

Yeah, I was thinking the one thing that should definitely be banned as the result of mass shootings is threads like this one.

#677 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-15 10:38 PM | Reply

"Gal, Trueblue dive bombs the thread, accuses me and et al of having nothing constructive to discuss and then leaves.
My comment stands.
#359 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER AT 2018-02-15 12:38 PM"

Yes it does, for all to see.

Apologies for not devoting more time to this discussion and on your schedule. I work nights and am only available for brief intervals on an hourly basis during that time.

I admit I did not read ALL of the comments (as if anybody could!). I only asked the question. Ignoring my question and/or referring me to specific previous comments would have been helpful.

Just to be clear: I did not say you (and et al) had nothing constructive to say. Actually, if you want to scroll WAY up, I said precisely the opposite to et al.

Returning you now to your previously scheduled rant.

#678 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2018-02-15 10:45 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Because I take rights seriously"

I guess there's no right to not get murdered.

#679 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 10:47 PM | Reply

Is America as a society becoming increasingly mentality ill?

Multiple generations of children raised by one parent.

We're working as hard as we can to destroy tradition that creates stability.

I've suspected for years we're going to see something along the lines of what we're seeing with the youth.

Blaming guns is just a way to avoid honest introspection.

#680 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2018-02-15 10:49 PM | Reply

I guess there's no right to not get murdered.

#679 | Posted by snoofy

Gee. Didn't see that coming.

I'm out.

This is tiring and old.

I'll leave you with one last thing-I don't go into the "gun fetish" stuff because I think you give a crap about the differences between 5.56 and 7.62. It's because you tools are like a troop of monkeys all chasing the shiny thing and, therefore, miss the bigger picture. You're so myopic you all but guarantee the ball will remain firmly at the line of scrimmage.

#681 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-15 10:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I don't go into the "gun fetish" stuff"

Clearly not if you can't tell the difference between 5.56 and 7.62.
It's not like you had much credibility, but now you have less, and I have more.

#682 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 10:53 PM | Reply

BillJohnson:

"It takes a village to raise a child."

What are your though on that comment, and the Presidential candidate who made it famous?

#683 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 10:54 PM | Reply

Considering America is well on its way to becoming a nation of people ill equipped to deal with stress without thinking you need to get drunk or high, as well as an inability to form long lasting relationships, we might want to disarm the populace.

#684 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2018-02-15 10:57 PM | Reply

#678 | POSTED BY TRUEBLUE

You work nights? I had to work nights for 5 years and absolutely hated it.

I'll never do it again.

I hope it either works well for you or, at the very least, you are extremely well paid for what you do.

#685 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 11:53 PM | Reply

Working nights is a mild carcinogen. I'd try to avoid it. Once upon a time I did it for a while; I was much happier on swing shift.

But, in some fields it's inevitable. Civilization does take its human toll. "Nothing can be done," amirite!

#686 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-15 11:55 PM | Reply

Working nights is a mild carcinogen.
#686 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

It screws up your circadian rhythm which is bad for your health.

#687 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-15 11:58 PM | Reply

"Let's take a moment to honor the sacrifice of our brave schoolchildren who lay down their lives to protect our right to bear arms."

#688 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-16 12:13 AM | Reply

"#678 | POSTED BY TRUEBLUE
You work nights? I had to work nights for 5 years and absolutely hated it.
I'll never do it again.
I hope it either works well for you or, at the very least, you are extremely well paid for what you do.
#685 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-15 11:53 PM"

Thanx for your (and others') thoughts!

The schedule works best for my family's needs.
Often 24/7 for several weeks at a time.

Pay is very good and also task is important/fulfilling and not physically demanding.

#689 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2018-02-16 01:35 AM | Reply

"Because I take rights seriously and tend to not be so emotional as to want to jump straight to the most destructive (and difficult) option."

What a pathetic non-answer. Why is gun ownership a right in any meaningful sense of the word? Why should it be? In what sense would a gun ban be more destructive than the status quo? You answer not one of these questions and cry foul that they are asked at all.

#690 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-16 02:19 AM | Reply

Have we figured out which guns are more deadly yet?

Cause. That makes a difference to the dead kids and their families.

Maybe another 700 post of discussing anything other than a possible solution will help.

#691 | Posted by ClownShack at 2018-02-16 02:55 AM | Reply

Why is gun ownership a right in any meaningful sense of the word? Why should it be?

#690 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

The 1st 10 amendments to the Constitution are called "the bill of >rights". Here is the key phrase of the 2nd Amendment of the bill of rights: The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

#692 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-16 09:46 AM | Reply

"Here is the key phrase of the 2nd Amendment of the bill of rights: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State,"

FTFY

You leave out that part and pretend it was what you posted and you make a mockery of what the founders intended. But then, you do the same things on other parts of the Constitution. I believe I've even seen you defend corporate personhood was completely the opposite of what the founders ever intended.

#693 | Posted by danni at 2018-02-16 11:46 AM | Reply

Why do I hold the NRA responsible for the shootings in Parkland, it's because they buy legislators who then prevent any meaningful legislation to prevent such rampages. Here are the price tags for some of your legislators:

Richard Burr
$6,986,620

Roy Blunt
$4,551,146

Thom Tillis
$4,418,012

Cory Gardner
$3,879,064

Marco Rubio
$3,303,355

Joni Ernst
$3,124,273

Rob Portman
$3,061,941

Todd Young
$2,896,732

Bill Cassidy
$2,861,047

#694 | Posted by danni at 2018-02-16 12:15 PM | Reply

"Blaming guns is just a way to avoid honest introspection."

What a steaming pile of you know what. Insane.

#695 | Posted by danni at 2018-02-16 12:16 PM | Reply

I think I will write a movie about a parent of one of the kids murdered by the NRA and Republicans in Congress who gets it into his deranged mind to seek revenge on those people. I think it will be a dark comedy. It will symbolize the various excuses that the gun industry and the politicians they buy manufacture to justify their business of selling death to innocent teenagers. It will also make a commentary on the millions of Americans who watch as 17 kids get murdered and immediately start defending their own right to own assault weapons. As if, anyone's "right" to own such a deadly weapon could ever justify continuing to own one after seeing all these murders which wouldn't happen if assault weapons were unavailable. It could be fun to show those Americans who so highly value the 2nd amendment that thousands of dead kids doesn't even cause them to question their own values. Creating some charicature characters would be fun, no mercy should be given after the deaths of so many for such stupid reasons as the need to own weapons of war.
Then, I'll sell the movie to Hollywood and retire rich and anonymous because if I succeeded I'm sure some of the "responsible gun owners" out there would put a price on my head.

#696 | Posted by danni at 2018-02-16 12:27 PM | Reply

Danni,

We've had guns forever.

Even when everyone carried guns we didn't have young people shooting their peers in schools.

You are in denial that the primary problem is people.

Something has occurred that is making people crazy.

You are in denial and just looking for a scapegoat rather than deal with reality.

#697 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2018-02-16 01:09 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

--Something has occurred that is making people crazy.

Social media amplifies anger, alienation, and isolation. It ought to be called "anti-social media".

#698 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-02-16 01:18 PM | Reply

Danni,

Considering I have little hope that people like you will ever stop pandering to the lowest common demininator of the human race, you may very well be correct the society liberals wrought needs to be disarmed.

#699 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2018-02-16 01:26 PM | Reply

Null,

'Social media gives everyone an equal voice.'

Regardless how bizarre and disgusting some people and ideas are, the internet makes everyone seem more significant than they really are.

#700 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2018-02-16 01:47 PM | Reply

Null,

Social media gives everyone an equal voice.

Regardless how bizarre and disgusting some people and ideas are, the internet makes everyone seem more significant than they really are.

#701 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2018-02-16 01:48 PM | Reply

"We've had guns forever."

But we haven't had school shootings like the one in Parkland forever. That phenomenon pretty much followed the introduction of the assault weapon for civilian use.

#702 | Posted by danni at 2018-02-16 01:57 PM | Reply

That phenomenon pretty much followed the introduction of the assault weapon for civilian use.

#702 | POSTED BY DANNI

In the '80's fully automatic weapons were available. These are far more capable of causing mass carnage in a short period of time than so-called "assault weapons".

#703 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-16 02:14 PM | Reply

The 1st 10 amendments to the Constitution are called "the bill of >rights". Here is the key phrase of the 2nd Amendment of the bill of rights: The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

#692 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-16 09:46 AM | REPLY

So it is a right because the constitution says so? Do better.

Codifying something as a right supposedly is in service to some good. What possible good is served by a "right" to arms?

#704 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-16 02:27 PM | Reply

Dirk,

"What possible good is served by a "right" to arms?"

You should be grateful you would ask that question.

The situation could be much worse if you actually needed it.

#705 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2018-02-16 02:45 PM | Reply

So it is a right because the constitution says so?

Yes, given that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land.

#706 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-16 03:03 PM | Reply

Yes, given that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land.

#706 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-16 03:03 PM | FLAG:

Do better. Why does the constitution recognize some things as rights and not others? Mere accident? Would you be satisfied by governed by such?

#707 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-16 03:09 PM | Reply

You should be grateful you would ask that question.
The situation could be much worse if you actually needed it.
#705 | POSTED BY BILL

Needed WHAT exactly? Needed it WHY?

#708 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-16 03:10 PM | Reply

Lots of countries have bills of right that do not include rights to arms. The U.N. declaration of human rights doesn't either. So, we really have no reason to take the existence of such rights as a normative position in thought about human rights.

#709 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-02-16 03:16 PM | Reply

Dirk,

Forget it.

It went over your head.

#710 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2018-02-16 08:22 PM | Reply

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