Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, February 13, 2018

A spokeswoman for the Department of Education confirmed on Monday that the department is no longer investigating civil rights complaints from transgender students banned from using bathrooms conforming with their gender identity. The development reverses 2016 guidance by the Obama administration that directed public school students to use the bathroom that matched their gender identity. The Obama administration's position was that Title IX, the federal law that bans sex discrimination in schools, protects transgender students.

More

Alternate links: Google News | Twitter

"The secretary would contend that it is the job of Congress or the courts, not the bureaucracy, to determine whether or not the term 'sex' under Title IX encompasses 'gender identity,'" Hill added.

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

It's already been settled slick.

www.brookings.edu

In 1989, the Supreme Court ruled that discrimination based on non-conformance with gender norms, stereotypes, and other sex-based considerations constitutes illegal sex discrimination under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Price Waterhouse v. Hopkins). Since at least
2000, courts and federal agencies have applied that precedent to protections for transgender people, who often defy others' stereotypes or expectations of how a person of a particular sex or gender should look, dress, or act. Numerous courts (including the
4th,
6th,
9th, and
11th Circuits, and the
District Court of D.C.) and federal agencies (including the
Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and the Department of Health and Human Services) have agreed that discriminating against transgender (and LGB) people is discriminating on the basis of gender stereotypes or expectations, and is therefore illegal sex discrimination.

The key takeaway here is that the protections for transgender students did not spring into existence because of the Obama guidance; rather, the Obama guidance codified existing protections provided by Title IX. As a result, schools around the country continue to have a legal obligation to protect these students' rights, including equal access to facilities consistent with their gender identity, even following the guidance's withdrawal.

#1 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-13 11:07 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

PS They will sue the Dept of Education and will win yet again.

#2 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-13 11:09 AM | Reply

It's a delicate balancing act that is best handled at the local level IMO.

#3 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 11:26 AM | Reply

It's a delicate balancing act that is best handled at the local level IMO.

Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 11:26 AM | Reply

Nope not rights. Rights should never must never rely upon the popular vote. That's why we call them rights NOT privileges.

#4 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-13 11:28 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

"It's a delicate balancing act"

No it's not. It's basic human decency. A human right.

#5 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2018-02-13 11:33 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

BTW I bet you would think different if you had a trans kid and your school system declared they had no rights to protection and they weren't considered a full student.

#6 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-13 11:44 AM | Reply

What we need is bathroom police to protect teenage girls from transgenders. I hear Roy Moore is available.

#7 | Posted by bored at 2018-02-13 12:19 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#6, Unless it effects their families personally they are quite eager to punish folks who are living difficult, out of the norm lives. When it is their kid, they immediately become sensitive effers who walk back tears of hateful mean positions and claim to be allies og GLBT folks. I call it "Republican Empathy".

If it aint in their home, or their kid, it dont mean a thing beyond a chance to pile on LGBTs TO APPEAL TO THEIR FELLOW REPUBS.

#8 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2018-02-13 12:21 PM | Reply

I've asked this a million times but never gotten an answer - where exactly are the thresholds and criteria drawn between those who actually transsexual or legitimately gender fluid, those are transvestites or going through a phase, and those who are willing to cross dress for convenience because they want to get a peek in the other gender's wash room? Was there ever any guidelines on how to distingish between these in the guidance that was handed down by the previous admin, or was that left up to the local level? I don't know how you could exclude the latter if you're taking the word of children and teenagers about their identity.

#9 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 12:24 PM | Reply

What we need is bathroom police to protect teenage girls from transgenders. I hear Roy Moore is available.

#7 | Posted by bored at 2018-02-13 12:19 PM | Reply | Flag

I'm horrible. I laughed at that.

#10 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-13 12:47 PM | Reply

The only solution is individual community stalls and an open public handwashing station.

#11 | Posted by SheepleSchism at 2018-02-13 01:38 PM | Reply

RE #11

The ONLY solution?

How about we get over ourselves. Stop making an social wedge issue out of something that is NOT a actual problem.

Stop taking the bait.

Being Uncomfortable Doesn't Mean You're Unsafe!

I traveled to Europe last week, where I enjoyed such delicacies as tea and scones with clotted cream in England, paella and local wine in Spain, ancient Roman architecture and art, and, perhaps most refreshingly, blissful silence about transgender bathroom usage.

Many of the restrooms I used while away were single-stalled and not gender-specific. Even those that were gender-segregated had shared space around the sinks -- and guess what, no one was assaulted, mugged, or given the evil eye. I felt perfectly safe peeing next to another human being who just happened to have different bits.

#12 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-02-13 01:47 PM | Reply

"Stop taking the bait."

Um, that's exactly what the Obama admin did. Both sides were angling to make this a wedge issue leading up the election. Obama miscalculated and it backfired on the Democrats.

(cue inane response bleating "no it didn't because the popular vote...")

#13 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 02:07 PM | Reply

those who are willing to cross dress for convenience because they want to get a peek in the other gender's wash room?

The ones who are the staunchest defenders of Obama's "guidance letter" not only don't care about potential (and likely) predation by those taking advantage of the new rule, they will tell you that it could never happen because, well, they never give a reason as to why it could never happen. You just have to take their word for it.

#14 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 02:19 PM | Reply

"...they will tell you that it could never happen because, well, they never give a reason as to why it could never happen." - #14 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 02:19 PM

Probably that's because, like in-person voter impersonation (so-called voter fraud), it doesn't really happen.

#15 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-13 02:24 PM | Reply

"don't care about potential (and likely) predation"

Show me evidence of predation.

If you aren't fear mongering, please present evidence of likely predation.

Thanks.

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-13 02:25 PM | Reply

I just told my trans son to use whatever washroom he felt comfortable using. If kids are giving him ---- try and deal with it but if it gets to bad let me know and I'll fight the admin on his behalf, if it's an administrator or teacher let me know right away.

So far it has not been a problem and that's in the home state of HB2.

#17 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2018-02-13 02:29 PM | Reply

Like a rapist can't walk into a bathroom.

What kind of idiot actually believes this?

#18 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2018-02-13 02:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Oh I should amend that was after he went to the admin and they were making a big deal. I said you take care of yourself and I'll take care of the rest.

#19 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2018-02-13 02:39 PM | Reply

I personally don't care. But this is a case of competing rights and the one has priority should be the one of least harm or most benefit. Use the one that most closely matches your outward appearance at the time.

#20 | Posted by visitor_ at 2018-02-13 02:39 PM | Reply

Good for you Tao.

#21 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2018-02-13 02:44 PM | Reply

BOULDER, Colo. -- A Colorado man who hid in the tank of a portable toilet at a yoga festival to spy on women has been sentenced to three years in prison and 10 years of probation.

www.nydailynews.com

You think someone like this wouldn't take advantage of a "rule/regulation" that makes it lawful for him to be in a women's restroom or locker room?

#22 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 02:44 PM | Reply

Considering that transgender people tend to resemble their gender, when it comes to restrooms with stalls, people likely aren't even aware that they are a member of the opposite sex. Ignorance is bliss and all that. Locker rooms are a stickier situation.

#23 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 02:46 PM | Reply

You guys act like predators and creepers don't exist.

#24 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 02:47 PM | Reply

JeffJ as one straight man to another, where is your concern about gay men in our bathrooms? Isn't that a likely scenario for predation? What are you doing about it?

#25 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-13 02:47 PM | Reply

I'm far more concerned about women than men, in this context. The weaker sex and all that.

#26 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 02:48 PM | Reply

"You think someone like this wouldn't take advantage of a "rule/regulation" that makes it lawful for him to be in a women's restroom or locker room?"

What specific regulation do you have in mind?

Do you think that the law is any deterrent to a man wanting to hang out near the urinal to see men's and boy's penises?

Where is your concern?

#27 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-13 02:52 PM | Reply

Twelve Oaks Mall has 3 sets of bathrooms in their restroom areas: Men - Women - Family (unisex). Crisler Center in Ann Arbor does as well.

#28 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 02:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

What specific regulation do you have in mind?

The one that Devos just undid.

#29 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 02:52 PM | Reply

"I'm far more concerned about women than men, in this context"

You do not realize it, but the thing you're doing is: You are concern trolling.

#30 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-13 02:53 PM | Reply

It shouldn't have to be a big deal. Like I said, when it comes to public restrooms people aren't even likely to know.

Locker rooms are trickier and I feel for those who have to deal with it as an issue.

#31 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 02:54 PM | Reply

I think the 3 bathroom thing will become more prevalent as public buildings get renovated, etc.

#32 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 02:56 PM | Reply

"concern about gay men in our bathrooms?"

We've never segregated bathrooms based on sexual orientation. We've always segregated them based gender/sex. Are you saying we should change either of those things?

(If people want to have a debate about the latter, that's fine. But it was objectively stupid thing to do, in the careless way Obama chose to do it, leading up to a presidential election.)

#33 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 02:58 PM | Reply

"We've never segregated bathrooms based on sexual orientation. We've always segregated them based gender/sex. Are you saying we should change either of those things?"

I'm saying if you're not concerned about gay predators in bathrooms under the status quo, then your pretend concerns about transgender predators in bathrooms are just that, pretend.

#34 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-13 03:06 PM | Reply

"What specific regulation do you have in mind?

The one that Devos just undid."

Read me the chapter and verse from that letter that would legalize what you claim it legalizes.

#35 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-13 03:08 PM | Reply

"concerns about transgender predators"

Who's concerned about transgender predators? The concern that's been raised is about who predators who aren't transgender, but can use the stupidly vague wording in "guidance" which allows any person to choose whichever bathroom they want based on their stated personal feeling with no medical documentation whatsoever.

#36 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 03:15 PM | Reply

A Colorado man who hid in the tank of a portable toilet at a yoga festival to spy on women ...

Hiding in the tank of a portable toilet?

Like this?!?!?!

Seriously?

#37 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-13 03:19 PM | Reply

Nothing in the law (or the letter) legalizes predatory behavior, by anyone.

#38 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-13 03:20 PM | Reply

Nothing in the law (or the letter) legalizes predatory behavior, by anyone.
#38 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

It legalized predators' and pervs' presence in girls' locker rooms and bathrooms.

You can't possibly be this daft. I posted a link to a story of a perv hiding in the tank of a porta potty in order to voyeur women going to the bathroom. If a 'guidance letter' claims its discriminatory to prevent him from going into a girls locker room you can sure as hell bet he's going in there.

#39 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 03:24 PM | Reply

Mandating that bathrooms and locker rooms be desegregated by sex based solely on each child's word with no medical documentation whatsoever is really not helpful to transgender individuals. And it helped get Trump elected. Was it worth it, Doofy?

#40 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 03:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"It legalized predators' and pervs' presence in girls' locker rooms and bathrooms."

You're saying until this memo, perverts were not allowed in bathrooms, even just to pee?

You're saying because of this memo, it's now explicitly legal for a man to claim to be a woman and engage in predatory action in the women's restroom?

#41 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-13 03:30 PM | Reply

"I posted a link to a story of a perv hiding in the tank of a porta potty in order to voyeur women"

Was that legal?
You think a memo made it legal?

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-13 03:31 PM | Reply

"And it helped get Trump elected." - #40 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 03:29 PM

'Tis true.

Sometimes doing the right thing has negative political consequences.

Fortunately, there are some politicians who do the right thing regardless of the consequences.

#43 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-13 03:35 PM | Reply

This is yet another example of how ------- tone deaf the left was and still is. There are many people who want transsexuals to be treated with dignity and respect but also have legitimate concerns about how poorly worded or thought out policies can create a giant loophole for those who want to abuse it. Instead of addressing those concerns by modifying policy proposals to take them into account, the left goes straight into dismissal or attack mode, and then pat themselves on the ass for being so bloody minded and knocking down those windmills.

#44 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 03:44 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

#43 just admitted he's effectively a Trump supporter.

#45 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 03:48 PM | Reply

#44 | POSTED BY SENTINEL AT 2018-02-13 03:44 PM

Well stated. NW.

#46 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 03:50 PM | Reply

It legalized predators' and pervs' presence in girls' locker rooms and bathrooms.

You can't possibly be this daft. I posted a link to a story of a perv hiding in the tank of a porta potty in order to voyeur women going to the bathroom. If a 'guidance letter' claims its discriminatory to prevent him from going into a girls locker room you can sure as hell bet he's going in there.

#39 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 03:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

You are such a liar anymore it's sad. It does no such thing. It NEVER legalized that.

#47 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-13 03:55 PM | Reply

The ones who are the staunchest defenders of Obama's "guidance letter" not only don't care about potential (and likely) predation by those taking advantage of the new rule, they will tell you that it could never happen because, well, they never give a reason as to why it could never happen. You just have to take their word for it.

#14 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 02:19 PM | Reply | Flag

transequality.org

Police Departments Across the Country Agree: There's been no increase in public safety incidents in cities and states with nondiscrimination laws

We all care about safety and privacy in restrooms. Which is why it's important to remember that nondiscrimination laws protecting lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people have been around for a long time. In fact, 18 states and over 200 cities across the country have passed and successfully implemented laws that protect lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people from discrimination in public accommodations–and there's been no increase in public safety incidents in restrooms in any of these cities or states.

#48 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-13 04:00 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"It legalized predators' and pervs' presence in girls' locker rooms and bathrooms."

Wow, you are doing exactly what the left said the right was doing on this issue. I didn't see it earlier, but I see it now. I was originally concerned that the new rules would allow predators and perverters easier access into girls' locker rooms and bathrooms, but at no time did I think the new rules legalized their presence because they don't. Predators and perverters who are caught doing illegal things in restrooms will still be prosecuted for their crimes. Nothing has changed in that regard.

#49 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-02-13 04:02 PM | Reply

Laura, do you think bathrooms should be completely desegregated based on sex? Why or why not?

#50 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 04:03 PM | Reply

Twelve Oaks Mall has 3 sets of bathrooms in their restroom areas: Men - Women - Family (unisex). Crisler Center in Ann Arbor does as well.

#28 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 02:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

Gee a great way to out a trans kid. Why don't you use the girls restroom Suzy?? Yeah like that will work.

#51 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-13 04:04 PM | Reply

"#43 just admitted he's effectively a Trump supporter." - #45 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 03:48 PM

Trump has never done the right thing.

Trump's only ever done what benefits Trump.

That hardly qualifies as:

Sometimes doing the right thing has negative political consequences.

Fortunately, there are some politicians who do the right thing regardless of the consequences.

#43 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-13 03:35 PM

Not a single word in there about self-promotion and egomania.

You know, the antithesis of political courage.

#52 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-13 04:05 PM | Reply

"...but also have legitimate concerns about how poorly worded or thought out policies can create a giant loophole for those who want to abuse it." - #44 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 03:44 PM

A self-retorting retort.

Those are hardly "legitimate" concerns.

And hardly newsworthy.

#53 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-13 04:08 PM | Reply

It does no such thing. It NEVER legalized that.

Same can be said for those cases listed at post 1. The political scientist issue advocate author needs to learn how to read case law. Price Waterhouse is a straight up male/female hiring discrimination case. It doesn't have much, if anything, to say about transgender issues.

#54 | Posted by et_al at 2018-02-13 04:09 PM | Reply

--The political scientist issue advocate author needs to learn how to read case law.

Most if not all, political "scientists" are advocate pundits. Nothing "scientific" about them at all.

#55 | Posted by nullifidian at 2018-02-13 04:12 PM | Reply

"Predators and perverters who are caught doing illegal things in restrooms will still be prosecuted for their crimes."

It's not illegal to look at people in bathrooms or locker rooms, to an extent. Some men do it to other men. Some women do it to other women. The point being made is that poorly worded guidance allows men to be able to do it to women, and boys to do it to girls, simply by stating at any time they feel like the opposite gender.

#56 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 04:15 PM | Reply

Predators and perverters who are caught doing illegal things in restrooms will still be prosecuted for their crimes. Nothing has changed in that regard.

#49 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY

Yes. Again, keep in mind that a straight perv can claim to be transgender and then cannot be prevented from walking into a women's locker room where he's likely to look at women/girls in various stages of undress. He could even act only slightly creepy and there wouldn't be any legal ramifications for him.

But yes, a predator who takes advantage of a rule of this nature to gain access and then sexually assault could still be charged for said assault.

#57 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 04:17 PM | Reply

"...simply by stating at any time they feel like the opposite gender." - #56 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 04:15 PM

When all else fails, make something up.

#58 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-13 04:17 PM | Reply

"...keep in mind that a straight perv can claim to be transgender and then cannot be prevented from walking into a women's locker room..." - #57 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 04:17 PM

When all else fails, make something up.

#59 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-13 04:18 PM | Reply

Hey, Trump supporter Hans, can you point to us where in the guidance it required anything more than just how someone "self identified" to allow them choose the washroom they want to enter?

#60 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 04:21 PM | Reply

Yes. Again, keep in mind that a straight perv can claim to be transgender and then cannot be prevented from walking into a women's locker room where he's likely to look at women/girls in various stages of undress. He could even act only slightly creepy and there wouldn't be any legal ramifications for him.

But yes, a predator who takes advantage of a rule of this nature to gain access and then sexually assault could still be charged for said assault.

Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 04:17 PM | Reply

And you can claim to have credibility on the issue too but you would be wrong.

#61 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-13 04:22 PM | Reply

#61, prove him wrong then, by citing exactly what would prevent that from happening. If it's so easy, why not just do it?

#62 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 04:24 PM | Reply

"Hey, Trump supporter Hans..." - #60 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 04:21 PM

When all else fails, make something up.

#63 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-13 04:25 PM | Reply

Sentinel,

In this particular case, the guidance letter, my recollection is that what was required was a letter from parents stating their child is transgender. Of course, kids would never forge a letter from their parents or forge a signature on a permission slip.

#64 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 04:28 PM | Reply

These women were born male.

Some here want them forced into the men's locker room.

These men were born female.

Some here want them forced into the women's locker room.

But, apparently, blowing wind is their cup-of-tea.

#65 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-13 04:30 PM | Reply

In this particular case, the guidance letter, my recollection is that what was required was a letter from parents stating their child is transgender. Of course, kids would never forge a letter from their parents or forge a signature on a permission slip.

Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 04:28 PM | Reply

You just can't help yourself can you???

#66 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-13 04:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"...kids would never forge a letter from their parents or forge a signature on a permission slip." - #64 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 04:28 PM

Of course, it is natural for kids to willingly put themselves into a position where they will be bullied and ridiculed by all the other kids in school. /s

#67 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-13 04:32 PM | Reply

Get those windmills, Hans!!! They're giants!

#68 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 04:32 PM | Reply

"Get those windmills, Hans!!!" - #68 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 04:32 PM

When all else fails, make something up.

#69 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-13 04:33 PM | Reply

Although, at school the kids all know each other so it probably wouldn't be too hard to follow up on a forged letter because you can sure as heck bet that girls who had their locker room invaded by a creep who they know is a boy would certainly lodge a complaint which would probably result in a school administrator calling his parents to verify that the letter was legit. He might get away with it the first time, but would probably pay a steep price for it.

The far bigger issue/problem with the Obama guidance letter was the conflicted notion that one has a right to share facilities with those who match his or her gender which means taking away the right for everyone else using said facilities to share them with people who match their sex.

Which has primacy, gender or sex? When handled locally, usually accommodations can be made that work reasonably well for all. The problem with the guidance letter is it didn't allow any flexibility at the local level.

#70 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 04:36 PM | Reply

Although, at school the kids all know each other so it probably wouldn't be too hard to follow up on a forged letter because you can sure as heck bet that girls who had their locker room invaded by a creep who they know is a boy would certainly lodge a complaint which would probably result in a school administrator calling his parents to verify that the letter was legit. He might get away with it the first time, but would probably pay a steep price for it.

The far bigger issue/problem with the Obama guidance letter was the conflicted notion that one has a right to share facilities with those who match his or her gender which means taking away the right for everyone else using said facilities to share them with people who match their sex.No rights were taken away. Nice try slick

Which has primacy, gender or sex? When handled locally, usually accommodations can be made that work reasonably well for all. The problem with the guidance letter is it didn't allow any flexibility at the local level.

Rights must never be decided by the localities. That's why they are called rights NOT privileges

Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 04:36 PM | Reply

#71 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-13 04:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"The problem with the guidance letter is it didn't allow any flexibility at the local level." - #70 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 04:36 PM

Neither does 42 U.S. Code § 2000a.

#72 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-13 04:42 PM | Reply

.No rights were taken away.

What right is taken away of a transgender is only allowed to use the facility that matches his gender?

#73 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 04:43 PM | Reply

What right is taken away of a transgender is only allowed to use the facility that matches his gender?

Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 04:43 PM | Reply

Are you for reals?? How are you declaring the He bit?? Are you like Boaz and claiming a trans girl is a he???

#74 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-13 04:48 PM | Reply

"...if a transgender is only allowed to use the facility that matches his gender?" - #73 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 04:43 PM

That's what she wants.

To use the facility that matches her gender.

You might want to revisit my #65.

#75 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-13 04:56 PM | Reply

"Sentinel,
In this particular case, the guidance letter, my recollection is that what was required was a letter from parents stating their child is transgender."

If true, then at least that's something. However, I remember explicitly looking for something like this at the time, and could find no reference to it. It's funny how not a single person defending the memo mentioned it at the time, nor anyone can provide a reference to it now.

#76 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 05:16 PM | Reply

You guys act like predators and creepers don't exist.

#24 | Posted by JeffJ

Said no one ever. They exist.

So tell us what is preventing them creepers from preying and creeping on our children in single gender bathrooms right now?

Americans need to grow up.

#77 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-02-13 05:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

This is the argument being advanced:

Transgenders have a right to same-gender facilities.

Cisgenders do NOT have a right to same-sex facilities.

Gender has primacy over sex.

I disagree.

Anything beyond this becomes circular.

#78 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 05:20 PM | Reply

"Although, at school the kids all know each other so it probably wouldn't be too hard to follow up on a forged letter because you can sure as heck bet that girls who had their locker room invaded by a creep who they know is a boy would certainly lodge a complaint which would probably result in a school administrator calling his parents to verify that the letter was legit. He might get away with it the first time, but would probably pay a steep price for it."

In the case of teenagers, many wouldn't care about the price, and would think it's so worth it just for the epic bragging rights.

#79 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 05:22 PM | Reply

Predators and Creepers don't benefit from this law. They existed before it. This is just an attempt to conflate TG people with predators and creepers.

#80 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2018-02-13 05:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"So tell us what is preventing them creepers from preying and creeping on our children in single gender bathrooms right now?"

So your argument boils down that because we can't stop same sex creeping, no one should object to doubling the number of creepers in each bathroom?

#81 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 05:26 PM | Reply

Transgenders have a right to same-gender facilities.

Cisgenders do NOT have a right to same-sex facilities.

Gender has primacy over sex.

I disagree.

Anything beyond this becomes circular.

Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 05:20 PM | Reply

You're just ridiculous cubed.

#82 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-13 05:27 PM | Reply

I found the guidance letter and I was wrong about the parental notification. When I read the letter it states that schools must conform to the gender that a student identifies with. No proof needs to be given by said student or his parents/guardians affirming his gender. If a boy says he's a girl, he gets to check out all of the naked girls in the locker room if he wishes.

Here is the letter:

www2.ed.gov

#83 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 05:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

This is the key paragraph:

The Departments interpret Title IX to require that when a student or the student's parent or guardian, as appropriate, notifies the school administration that the student will assert a gender identity that differs from previous representations or records, the school will begin treating the student consistent with the student's gender identity. Under Title IX, there is no medical diagnosis or treatment requirement that students must meet as a prerequisite to being treated consistent with their gender identity.6 Because transgender students often are unable to obtain identification documents that reflect their gender identity (e.g., due to restrictions imposed by state or local law in their place of birth or residence),7 requiring students to produce such identification documents in order to treat them consistent with their gender identity may violate Title IX when doing so has the practical effect of limiting or denying students equal access to an educational program or activity.

#84 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 05:32 PM | Reply

So I was right. A boy, even if he is not actually transgender, only has to state he identifies as a girl in order to get a green light to go into the girls' bathrooms and locker rooms, and no one can challenge him on it without being accused of violating Title IX.

#85 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 05:37 PM | Reply

"...but she won the popular vote."

Thanks Obama. :-(

#86 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 05:38 PM | Reply

I found the guidance letter and I was wrong about the parental notification. When I read the letter it states that schools must conform to the gender that a student identifies with. No proof needs to be given by said student or his parents/guardians affirming his gender. If a boy says he's a girl, he gets to check out all of the naked girls in the locker room if he wishes.

Here is the letter:

www2.ed.gov

Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 05:30 PM | Reply

You just can't help yourself can you?? That's not even remotely true and you know it.

#87 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-13 05:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"If a boy says he's a girl, he gets to check out all of the naked girls in the locker room if he wishes." - #83 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 05:30 PM

Boys and girls spend their middle- and high-school years trying to fit in and be accepted.

What boy would risk being labeled a q**** or a f***** for the rest of his school days just to supposedly "check out all of the naked girls" without having to get naked himself and be teased and ridiculed by all of those same girls.?

It amazes me that you're ascribing adult fantasies to boys and girls.

Maintaining any semblance of respect and friendship IRL is damn near impossible.

#88 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-13 06:00 PM | Reply

"...no one should object to doubling the number of creepers in each bathroom?" - #81 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 05:26 PM

Translation: Transgendered individuals are all creepers.

That's the same mentality that labels all gays as wanting to molest boys.

#89 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-13 06:02 PM | Reply

"This is just an attempt to conflate TG people with predators and creepers." - #80 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2018-02-13 05:25 PM

Something to be expected of sentinel.

Sad to see it applies to JeffJ, as well.

#90 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-13 06:03 PM | Reply

Hans,

Do you really not remember what being a teenage boy was like?
Hormones running wild, bragging to friends about any kinds of sexual encounters, talking at length about how hot certain girls were, etc?

Do you really believe that there's not a single HS boy in the US who wouldn't take advantage of that guidance letter to check out naked girls with impunity?

#91 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 06:08 PM | Reply

Do you really not remember what being a teenage boy was like?
Hormones running wild, bragging to friends about any kinds of sexual encounters, talking at length about how hot certain girls were, etc?

Do you really believe that there's not a single HS boy in the US who wouldn't take advantage of that guidance letter to check out naked girls with impunity?

Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 06:08 PM | Reply

You got that from Mike Huckabee.

www.cnn.com

Washington (CNN)Mike Huckabee says there's a time he wishes he could've been transgender: When it was time to hit the high school showers.
If he "could have felt like a woman," the Republican former Arkansas governor joked earlier this year, then he could have seen his female classmates without their clothes on.
"Now I wish that someone told me that when I was in high school that I could have felt like a woman when it came time to take showers in PE," Huckabee said.

"I'm pretty sure that I would have found my feminine side and said, 'Coach, I think I'd rather shower with the girls today.' You're laughing because it sounds so ridiculous doesn't it?"

#92 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-13 06:13 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Do you really not remember what being a teenage boy was like?" - #91 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 06:08 PM

Yep.

Boys and girls spend their middle- and high-school years trying to fit in and be accepted.

Meanwhile...

"And we accused Clinton of lying about sex, which all men spend their lives doing, starting at 15 bragging about things we haven't done yet..." - P.J. O'Rourke
"...to check out naked girls with impunity?"

And be labeled a q**** and a f***** for the rest of his school days?

That's hardly impunity.

Stop trying to ascribe adult fantasies to boys and girls.

Coming from you it is more than disheartening.

#93 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-13 06:14 PM | Reply

"and no one can challenge him on it without being accused of violating Title IX."

If a woman enters the men's locker room, can that be challenged?

Now make it a trans woman. Can that be challenged?

#94 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-13 06:19 PM | Reply

"If he "could have felt like a woman," the Republican former Arkansas governor joked earlier this year, then he could have seen his female classmates without their clothes on."

Notice the word "joked."
But JeffJ isn't joking.
Didn't get the joke JeffJ?

#95 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-13 06:21 PM | Reply

"I'm pretty sure that I would have found my feminine side" - Mike Huckabee

Mike Huckabee's feminine side.

#96 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-13 06:24 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

So your argument boils down that because we can't stop same sex creeping, no one should object to doubling the number of creepers in each bathroom?

#81 | Posted by sentinel

Maybe I am out of touch on this issue (being as how it is NOT an issue to me).

So maybe you can refresh me.

What is the correlation between public accommodations laws and policies covering transgender people and "creepers" attacking women and children in bathrooms?

As far as I know laws that protect gender identity have been around for years, and there is no evidence they have led to an increase in attacks in public facilities.

#97 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-02-13 06:28 PM | Reply

What is the correlation between public accommodations laws and policies covering transgender people ...

At the federal level none. That statute protects against "discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin."

As far as I know laws that protect gender identity have been around for years ...

In some states. There is no federal equivalent.

There are attempts to shoehorn "sex" in Titles VII (employment) and IX (education) into "gender."

#98 | Posted by et_al at 2018-02-13 06:44 PM | Reply

#97, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you aren't trolling like Trump supporter Hans apparently is, and remind you that we weren't talking about assaults, but just perverts who ogle and espy others for personal gratification.

#99 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 06:50 PM | Reply

"...Trump supporter Hans..." - #99 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 06:50 PM

When all else fails, lie.

#100 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-13 06:51 PM | Reply

"...but just perverts who ogle and espy others for personal gratification." - #99 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 06:50 PM

Spoken as if you have lots of experience in that regard.

#101 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-13 06:52 PM | Reply

Trump supporter Hans was clearly following his own advice of 'when all else fails, make something up' in post #89. Trump supporter Hans is clearly frustrated that he can't argue based on the merits of the facts.

I think it's been clearly demonstrated here that, no matter how well intentioned the memo was, the way it was written was poorly thought out, to the point where it screwed over the very people it was supposed to help. I argue that it was indefensible, unless you actaully liked the fact that it was probably one of the factors which helped push Trump over the top electorally.

#102 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 07:05 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Trump supporter Hans..." - #102 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 07:05 PM

When all else fails, lie.

#103 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-13 07:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The worst type of Trump supporters are the ones who don't know it, because they totally lack the self-awareness of how their actions helped get him elected.

#104 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 07:11 PM | Reply

"The worst type of Trump supporters are the ones who don't know it..." - #104 | Posted by sentinel, who ogles and espies others in public bathrooms for personal gratification at 2018-02-13 07:11 PM

So you admit ignorance.

Good for you.

#105 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-13 07:13 PM | Reply

You can have the last word, Hans.

#106 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-13 07:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

we weren't talking about assaults, but just perverts who ogle and espy others for personal gratification.

#99 | Posted by sentinel

uh oh.

So when I go hang out at Venice Beach or Newport Beach and spend my day ogling and espying (not sure what that is but I'll try it) at all the young babes in bikinis (for my personal gratification of course) then I am basically just a pervert?

Damn it.

Is nothing sacred anymore?

There goes my retirement fun.

#107 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-02-13 07:17 PM | Reply | Funny: 2

"it screwed over the very people it was supposed to help."

The memo didn't do that.
The GOP did that.

#108 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-13 07:18 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Interestingly enough I kinda side with jeffj on this one.

When my son went to the admin suddenly it was a big deal and there was even talk of him using the teachers bathroom which would certainly flag him as different (Laura touched on this). When I told him to just go ahead and I would back him up suddenly no big deal.

The problem with that is not every parent will be supportive and those kids whose parents aren't need the support of the school which from experience they won't get.

There are a few trans kids in his school ranging in support from their parents from one who has started hrt with parental support to one who has to sneak clothes to school and change after they arrive because their parents refuse to accept them. How is the last kid going to deal with restroom issues if the school doesn't help?

#109 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2018-02-13 09:11 PM | Reply

Given that gender dysphasia is fluid and given that roughly 90% "grow out of it" in their late teen years, the charade wouldn't even have to be kept up for very long.

It would be one thing to make the case that it could happen, would likely happen, but it would be exceedingly rare and would simply be an unfortunate negative trade off for doing the right thing. But that isn't what I'm reading. What I'm reading is that it could never happen.

#110 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 09:18 PM | Reply

#110 is in response to Hans' #93.

Sorry for the gap. I typed it on my phone waiting for my sons concert to begin but the auditorium had spotty coverage so it was stuck in between preview and publish for over two hours.

#111 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 10:07 PM | Reply

"What I'm reading is that it could never happen."

That's not it.

The "it" you're referring to is wholly unrelated to the fact that trans people exist, and also need to use the bathroom, and common sense says they ought to have the liberty to use the bathroom that matches their gender.

A person could pretend to be a woman, go into the woman's room, and commit various crimes, like sniff some cocaine, or write bad stuff on the walls, or expose themselves to the people in there. A woman could do all that stuff too. That is all illegal, and all unrelated to this topic.

#112 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-13 10:35 PM | Reply

Why does a transgender have a right/expectation to use the facilities matching the gender but a cisgender doesn't have the right/expectation to use facilities matching the sex?

Why are you (and Laura) so devoutly avoiding addressing the logical contradiction?

#113 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 10:42 PM | Reply

"a cisgender doesn't have the right/expectation to use facilities matching the sex?"

I'm not aware I don't have the right to use the facility that matches my sex.
Please explain.

#114 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-13 10:43 PM | Reply

If a member of the opposite sex can use the same facility then you no longer have a same sex facility available to you.

#115 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 10:50 PM | Reply

"If a member of the opposite sex can use the same facility then you no longer have a same sex facility available to you."

Well, I still have a same gender facility to me, so that's sufficient to make me not think I'm being oppressed or harmed.
You don't feel the same way, I take it, because you don't accept that trans men are men?

#116 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-13 10:52 PM | Reply

Like I said up thread, you are giving gender primacy over sex.

I disagree with that premise and we are now at an impasse.

#117 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 10:56 PM | Reply

I must say I'm pleased with the overall civility on this thread.

So often this topic brings out the bad in people.

#118 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 10:58 PM | Reply

"Like I said up thread, you are giving gender primacy over sex."

I'm acknowledging people's agency to determine their own gender, rather than have society tell them.
This is philosophically also how I end up supporting abortion; because we're all free to do what we please with our own bodies, including evicting unwanted tenants, but usually just getting fat.

But I will entertain your "primacy" for purposes of elucudating why that's a bad idea:
Define "sex," and while you're at it, tell me which bathroom LauraMohr should be allowed to use and which one she shouldn't.

#119 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-13 11:03 PM | Reply

Bear with me. I'm doing laps in the basement to get my steps in and am posting from my phone which is tedious.

#120 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 11:14 PM | Reply

If a member of the opposite sex can use the same facility then you no longer have a same sex facility available to you.

Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-13 10:50 PM | Reply

What a load of rubbish. If it identifies as female it uses the womens. If it identifies as male the mens. It's not hard.

#121 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-14 12:43 AM | Reply

What a load of rubbish. If it identifies as female it uses the womens. If it identifies as male the mens. It's not hard.

#121 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR

Who defines female and male?

Why are you SO ambivalent (at best) - hostile (at worst) to the plight of cisgendered girls not wanting to share facilities with members of the opposite sex?

#122 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 12:58 AM | Reply

"the plight of cisgendered girls not wanting to share facilities with members of the opposite sex?"

Because the people you're calling "members of the opposite sex" are members of my gender, and they're in the appropriate facility for my gender and their gender too.

#123 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 01:02 AM | Reply

The language in your post conflates "(cis)gender" with "sex."
Are you incapable of recognizing the difference?

#124 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 01:04 AM | Reply

"the plight of cisgendered girls not wanting to share facilities with members of the opposite sex?"
Because the people you're calling "members of the opposite sex" are members of my gender, and they're in the appropriate facility for my gender and their gender too.
#123 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

But they are NOT members of the same SEX.

Why are we even plumbing wage differences between the sex...er..I mean..genders,?

#125 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 01:08 AM | Reply

"But they are NOT members of the same SEX."

How can you assert that, after two posts ago you said "Who defines female and male?"
I guess you define it?

#126 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 01:10 AM | Reply

"Sex" and "gender" have distinctly different meanings.

#127 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 01:14 AM | Reply

"the plight of cisgendered girls not wanting to share facilities with members of the opposite sex?"

You mean "the plight of girls not wanting to share facilities with trans women."
I haven't heard of this "plight" before. Got any links, a support group, anything like that?

What would your alternative be? Have the trans women use the men's room?
How come you can't articulate an alternative?
Is it because you're actually okay with trans women using the women's facilities?

#128 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 01:14 AM | Reply

"Sex" and "gender" have distinctly different meanings."

Then pick one and use it so that you're consistent.
Don't try to set up a rift between "cisgendered girls" and "the opposite sex" because you're invoking two terms with distinctly different meanings.
You bait and switched yourself halfway through your own argument, bro.

#129 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 01:18 AM | Reply

#128

I can provide links from self-proclaimed liberals (with a history to back it up) who see this as I do - I don't believe you'd give any credence to their views under any circumstances. This is based upon countless prior discussions on this topic. Demonstrate that you've become FAR more open-minded on this and I'll consider dealing in your terms....

#130 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 01:22 AM | Reply

#129

I've been perfectly consistent - from a scientific standpoint.

#131 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 01:24 AM | Reply

"I've been perfectly consistent"

No, you ask "but what about Sex A, that doesn't want to be in the same building with Gender Z?"
You changed horses midstream.
You really can't see it?
Wow.

#132 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 01:27 AM | Reply

#132

I see it - you simply don't see the reverse.

#133 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 01:30 AM | Reply

The reverse?

Where do I conflate sex with gender?

#134 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 01:31 AM | Reply

"I can provide links from self-proclaimed liberals (with a history to back it up) who see this as I do"

Who talk out of both sides of their mouth, with things like "Sex" and "gender" have distinctly different meanings" and then assert sex-based rights to exclude not the other sex but the "other" gender?

Fine, post your miserable links. It's not like you're alone in getting this issue so horribly wrong.

#135 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 01:33 AM | Reply

If the women's room is for the female sex, where do trans women go to the bathroom?
It would have to be the men's room, correct?

But what about people of the male gender who don't want to share their bathroom with someone of the opposite sex?
That problem will always exist if we do it "your way" because you've created a catch-22 by conflating gender and sex.
You really can't see it?

#136 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 01:39 AM | Reply

Who defines female and male?
Why are you SO ambivalent (at best) - hostile (at worst) to the plight of cisgendered girls not wanting to share facilities with members of the opposite sex?

#122 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

You're jumping back and forth between different concepts here.

#137 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-14 01:54 AM | Reply

Wait. Snoofy is a chick? Or at least of the female gender?

#138 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-14 01:55 AM | Reply

#138 I don't think it really matters anymore. I'm going with 'gender-fluid'?

#139 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2018-02-14 01:57 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

#138 I don't think it really matters anymore. I'm going with 'gender-fluid'?

#139 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

So I'll probably get in trouble for buying Xe roses for Valentine's Day?

#140 | Posted by jpw at 2018-02-14 02:12 AM | Reply

"You're jumping back and forth between different concepts here."

See Also: Perverts in bathrooms is why we can't have transgender people in bathrooms.

#141 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 02:19 AM | Reply

Who defines female and male?

Why are you SO ambivalent (at best) - hostile (at worst) to the plight of cisgendered girls not wanting to share facilities with members of the opposite sex?

#122 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 12:58 AM | Reply | Flag

Why could native Americans many hundreds of years ago could figure it our but not you??? That's sad.

#142 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-14 02:36 AM | Reply

The main problem here is that word "transgender" is now conflating people like Laura, whom I assume has been verified as having a legitimate condition (transssexualism), with a wide spectrum of people who may identify as gender fluid, ----------- or gender non-conformist.

#143 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-14 03:27 AM | Reply

"Why could native Americans many hundreds of years ago could figure it out"

You're citing a very dubious myth here. And even the aboriginal American tribes which did recognize what some people call "two-spirits" had a process in which the religious elders had to recognize it. It was NOT based on how an individual self identified.

#144 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-14 03:48 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Did Native Americans hundreds of years ago have indoor plumbing or locker rooms?

#145 | Posted by visitor_ at 2018-02-14 08:57 AM | Reply

What a load of rubbish. If it identifies as female it uses the womens. If it identifies as male the mens. It's not hard.

#121 | POSTED BY LAURAMOHR AT 2018-02-14 12:43 AM | FLAG:

What happens if you identify as neither? We're up to 71 gender options.

#146 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-02-14 09:21 AM | Reply

"What happens if you identify as neither?" - #146 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-02-14 09:21 AM

This is the current version of "If we allow gays to marry then people will be able to marry their pets."

#147 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-14 09:27 AM | Reply

"Did Native Americans hundreds of years ago have indoor plumbing or locker rooms?"

To find out, tune in to the next season of Doctor Who, SJ Warrior Princess.

#148 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-14 09:30 AM | Reply

No, that's you projecting.

I am asking a simple question, where do the other 69 gender choices use the restroom? My solution is simple. Unisex bathrooms.

#149 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-02-14 09:31 AM | Reply

"I am asking a simple question..." - #149 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-02-14 09:31 AM

Something we've come to expect.

#150 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-14 09:33 AM | Reply

"I am asking a simple question"

It's a fair question, but since they can't answer it without contradicting themselves they'll go into the usual personal attack mode, just like they did against anyone in the general population who asked a simple question at the time the guidance memo was released.

"My solution is simple. Unisex bathrooms."

That won't work. People will object to sharing a bathroom with unicorns.

#151 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-14 09:38 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Poor little Hans. Projection, insults, no substance.

#152 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-02-14 09:40 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

That won't work. People will object to sharing a bathroom with unicorns.

#151 | POSTED BY SENTINEL AT 2018-02-14 09:38 AM | FLAG:

Yet the teachers manage it just fine with a staff bathroom.

#153 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-02-14 09:40 AM | Reply

"It's a fair question..." - #151 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-14 09:38 AM | Reply | Flag: Now Comes the Part Where We Throw Our Heads Back and Laugh!

#154 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-14 09:41 AM | Reply

"Yet the teachers manage it just fine with a staff bathroom."

That's because they have a staff to keep the unicorn at bay.

#155 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-14 09:42 AM | Reply

"...insults, no substance." - #152 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-02-14 09:40 AM

Is this the Drudge Discussion?

Nope.

Is this the Drudge Debate?

Again, no.

Is this the Drudge Retort?

I think we have a winner!

#156 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-14 09:42 AM | Reply

Retort - "say something in answer to a remark or accusation, typically in a sharp, angry, or wittily incisive manner."

You have failed on all criteria.

#157 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-02-14 09:44 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"...typically in a sharp, angry, or wittily incisive manner." - #157 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-02-14 09:44 AM

That's me.

Thanks for highlighting that.

#158 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-14 09:46 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

www.youtube.com

#159 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-14 09:58 AM | Reply

Unisex bathrooms would suck for women. Men are gross. Do you think a woman wants to go into a restroom where a bunch of dudes are taking power dumps in tandem?

What about locker rooms? Much bigger issue than restrooms IMO.

#160 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 10:04 AM | Reply

That's me.

#158 | POSTED BY HANS AT 2018-02-14 09:46 AM | FLAG:

Your self-image is funny, I'll give you that.

#161 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-02-14 10:07 AM | Reply

Unisex bathrooms would suck for women. Men are gross.

#160 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-14 10:04 AM | FLAG:

That's sexist. Women can be gross too.

Make stall walls go floor to ceiling. Problem solved. My school district can afford a $70.3 million football stadium. They can afford to bring bathrooms up to modern standards.

#162 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-02-14 10:11 AM | Reply

"Your self-image is funny, I'll give you that." - #161 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-02-14 10:07 AM

That's also me.

Thanks again.

#163 | Posted by Hans at 2018-02-14 10:11 AM | Reply

Unisex bathrooms would suck for women. Men are gross.
#160 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-14 10:04 AM | FLAG:
That's sexist. Women can be gross too.

Of course they can. Doesn't change the fact that, on average, men take more powerful and disgusting dumps than women.

As an MMA fan surely you recognize the biological differences between men and women.

#164 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 11:11 AM | Reply

Look at all this wasted energy.

All because some of us are so immature sexually that they equate being uncomfortable with being unsafe. This is not about safety at all. It's about tolerance. Tolerance of our near infinite differences as humans.

Get comfortable with your own sexuality and you will not worry about everyone else's.

Then you won't care who is peeing in the same bathroom as you.

#165 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-02-14 11:23 AM | Reply

Of course they can. Doesn't change the fact that, on average, men take more powerful and disgusting dumps than women.

#164 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-14 11:11 AM | FLAG:

I will leave the fecal analysis to your expertise.

#166 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-02-14 11:29 AM | Reply

I will leave the fecal analysis to your expertise.

#166 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG

That is wise. Were I to invoke logic...

#167 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-14 12:09 PM | Reply

#165 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY AT 2018-02-14 11:23

...exemplifies the tone deafness I was talking about upthread.

#168 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-14 01:11 PM | Reply

That is wise. Were I to invoke logic...

#167 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-14 12:09 PM | FLAG:

You're bringing up logic, while arguing with anecdote.

#169 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-02-14 01:22 PM | Reply

Since we're playing on anecdote, take a moment to think of every place you've ever been with a unisex bathroom. Dentist, doctors office, teacher's restroom mentioned above.. your fecal spraying, revolting men have not managed to destroy them to the extent women can not use them. In fact, if we spray fecal smells in the air, I challenge you to identify the gender of the owner.

#170 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2018-02-14 01:24 PM | Reply

I think the only time I've seen a unisex bathroom is when it was a single unit, to be occupied by only one person at a time. Is that what you're talking about, or unisex bathrooms which are shared by multiple people at the same time?

#171 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-14 01:32 PM | Reply

"Is that what you're talking about, or unisex bathrooms which are shared by multiple people at the same time?"

Oh, you mean like your mom?

#172 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-14 01:37 PM | Reply

These arguments are very similiar to gun ownership rights in that others want to tell you what you can and cannot do even though it is clearly spelled out in the countries framework.

Stop infringing on our freeking rights. Pee were you want to and shoot whatever you want to.

I cant stand the thought of hearing girls toot though. Never heard that until my thirties.

#173 | Posted by mutant at 2018-02-14 02:05 PM | Reply

Regarding bathroom cleanliness, reddit to the rescue. It seems some women are vile creatures.
Instead of bathroom gender segregation, maybe we should have tinkle bathrooms and I need to eject the spawn of satan bathrooms.

www.reddit.com

#174 | Posted by bored at 2018-02-14 04:21 PM | Reply

#172, like your mouth.

#175 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-02-15 09:35 AM | Reply

Comments are closed for this entry.

Home | Breaking News | Comments | User Blogs | Stats | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Privacy | Copyright 2018 World Readable

Drudge Retort