Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, February 06, 2018

During the Legionnaires' disease outbreaks in 2014 and 2015, twelve people died and 79 people became sick. The Flint Area Community Health and Environment Partnership conducted two studies and found the majority of Legionnaires' disease cases in Genesee County can be attributed to the water supply switch.

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All the members of the 'Death Panels' have an R behind their names.

#1 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2018-02-05 11:04 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The guys Rick Snyder appointed as city managers were all Democrats.

-- the DR RRRRIIIIIGGGHHHHHTTTTT

#2 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2018-02-06 01:03 AM | Reply

"I'm sorry, but the kids in Flint cannot have safe, clean water.

Here David and Charles Koch, have another billion in tax cuts."

Sincerely,

The GOP

#3 | Posted by 726 at 2018-02-06 06:45 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

So? Helps decrease the surplus population.

#4 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2018-02-06 08:01 AM | Reply

I suggest merging this with "Drink Bottled Water Because You Fear Mortality" post.

#5 | Posted by visitor_ at 2018-02-06 09:06 AM | Reply

12 More Deaths Linked to Flint Drinking Water

Translation - 12 More Deaths Linked to Republican governance.

#6 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-02-06 11:37 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

12 More Deaths Linked to Flint Drinking Water
Translation - 12 More Deaths Linked to Republican governance.

#6 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

If you think the Flint drinking water catastrophe is solely linked to Republican governance you are woefully ignorant about the tragedy.

#7 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-06 11:39 AM | Reply

If you think the Flint drinking water catastrophe is solely linked to Republican governance you are woefully ignorant about the tragedy.

#7 | Posted by JeffJ

Repubs are the ones who took over and switched water sources without doing their homework first. That's simply a fact. Sorry.

#8 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-02-06 11:42 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

There is some truth to that, but it is far from the whole story. Sorry.

#9 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-06 11:55 AM | Reply

I'm guessing you have gotten your information from national sources. Local media did an excellent job covering all of the nuance and intricacies of this story. It's not nearly as black and white as you are portraying it.

#10 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-06 11:56 AM | Reply

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You can't blame this one on Democrats JeffJ No matter how you would love to.

#11 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-06 11:59 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It's not nearly as black and white as you are portraying it.

#10 | Posted by JeffJ

Which party made the switch to toxic water to save money is EXTREMELY black and white - it was republicans.

#12 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-02-06 12:07 PM | Reply

www.washingtonpost.com

But EPA had no role in the decisions that caused the problem, nor was it supposed to. That was entirely the responsibility of Snyder's administration and his appointees.

The governor, former head of Gateway computers, was first elected as part of the tea party wave of 2010 with a plan to use his tech industry skills to run Michigan. He spoke of "outcomes" and "deliverables," called residents "customers" and sought to "reinvent" the state to make it business-friendly.

As for federal officials, the EPA warned Michigan as early as February 2015 that contaminants were leaching into the water system in Flint. The EPA didn't press publicly or aggressively to fix the problem, a failure that led to the regional administrator's resignation last week. That foot-dragging postponed action by a few months -- an inexcusable delay, to be sure -- but the feds had no say in the decisions that caused the problem.

Snyder undertook an arrogant public-policy experiment, underpinned by the ideological assumption that the "experience set" of corporate-style managers was superior to the checks and balances of democracy. This is why Flint happened.

#13 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-06 12:15 PM | Reply

This link has far more detailed information than national media. It's far from all-inclusive, but it's a start:

www.freep.com

#14 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-06 12:19 PM | Reply

"If you think the Flint drinking water catastrophe is solely linked to Republican governance you are woefully ignorant about the tragedy.
#7 | POSTED BY JEFFJ"

What parts do you think are linked to non-Republican governance?

#15 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-06 12:22 PM | Reply

If you are truly interested in the nuts and bolts of the Flint water crisis, stick to articles by The Detroit Free Press and The Detroit News. Their coverage was far more in depth than anything produced by the likes of WaPo and was surprisingly dispassionate and journalistic (obviously not so with opinion pieces) in their reporting.

#16 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-06 12:23 PM | Reply

What parts do you think are linked to non-Republican governance?

#15 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Mayor and city council for Flint. The EPA. Mayor and city council for Detroit. Flint had been getting its water from Detroit but then Detroit substantially raised the price. Long-term disaster planning had the Flint River as a back-up source of water in an emergency. The problem was more with the local water-treatment plants coupled with older lead pipes - the insufficiently treated water bled lead from the pipes.

Don't get me wrong, Team Snyder deserves plenty of blame for this. My point is, it's not quite as one-sided as you think and assuming you are all open-minded people who would rather base your opinions on fact than on confirmation-bias, I urge you to use local sources for your information.

#17 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-06 12:27 PM | Reply

assuming you are all open-minded people who would rather base your opinions on fact than on confirmation-bias, I urge you to use local sources for your information.

#17 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-02-06 12:27 PM

Are you new here? It's much easier for the usual suspects to be spoonfed what to think by WashPo then to actually get facts from the people who actually live in and around Flint.

If Flint's mayor had been Republican and the Governor a Democrat it would have been all the mayor's fault in WashPo world since in that case it's a local matter.

#18 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-02-06 12:39 PM | Reply

Mayor and city council for Flint. The EPA. Mayor and city council for Detroit. Flint had been getting its water from Detroit but then Detroit substantially raised the price. Long-term disaster planning had the Flint River as a back-up source of water in an emergency. The problem was more with the local water-treatment plants coupled with older lead pipes - the insufficiently treated water bled lead from the pipes.

Don't get me wrong, Team Snyder deserves plenty of blame for this. My point is, it's not quite as one-sided as you think and assuming you are all open-minded people who would rather base your opinions on fact than on confirmation-bias, I urge you to use local sources for your information.

#17 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-06 12:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

BS Facts belie your rhetoric Sir.

#19 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-06 12:41 PM | Reply

Repugs are far more concerned about black athletes taking a knee during the national anthem than they are about black children drinking poisoned water. FACT!!!!

#20 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2018-02-06 12:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Don't get me wrong, Team Snyder deserves plenty of blame for this."

Tell me what percentage of blame goes to Team Snyder, and what percentage goes to anyone else.

That way, it won't be possible for me to get you wrong.

I doubt you can do it. It's not in you to say these deaths are 80% the fault of Republicans.

#21 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-06 12:57 PM | Reply

Detroit raised it's price. They HAD to use the poison water. What else could they do?

#22 | Posted by 726 at 2018-02-06 02:16 PM | Reply

I think the important thing to remember is how much money was saved. After all, everyone dies eventually.

#23 | Posted by bored at 2018-02-06 02:24 PM | Reply

Detroit raised it's price. They HAD to use the poison water. What else could they do?

#22 | POSTED BY 726

This right here is the entire reason JeffJ is wrong. But he won't admit it because he will defend the Republicans as far as he can.

#24 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-06 02:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I can lead a horse to water but I can't make the horse drink.

Reality is not quite is cut-and-dry as your narrative.

If you are unwilling to take into account the state of Flint's finances at the time this happened along with a whole slew of other factors you probably aren't even aware of because you've only looked at the Cliff's Notes then there is nothing more to say.

#25 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-06 02:28 PM | Reply

If you are unwilling to take into account the state of Flint's finances at the time this happened along with a whole slew of other factors you probably aren't even aware of because you've only looked at the Cliff's Notes then there is nothing more to say.

#25 | Posted by JeffJ

If you think any level of financial trouble justifies or excuses poisoning everyone, you're right. There is nothing more to say.

#26 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-02-06 02:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

As if everyone involved not only knew in advance that was going to happen but that was their actual intent.

#27 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-06 02:35 PM | Reply

"I can lead a horse to water but I can't make the horse drink."

See #21.
How much blame goes to the GOP?
You say not all, so, how much?
Thanks.

#28 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-06 02:41 PM | Reply

"along with a whole slew of other factors"

Those are the words of a weasel.

#29 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-06 02:43 PM | Reply

"If you think any level of financial trouble justifies or excuses poisoning everyone, you're right. There is nothing more to say."

He thinks that.

I guess the thread is done.

#30 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-06 02:45 PM | Reply

As if everyone involved not only knew in advance that was going to happen but that was their actual intent.

#27 | Posted by JeffJ

When all you're thinking is "these stupid liberals can't manage themselves and now the adults are here to force discipline on them immediately" you don't stop and think of unintended consequences, or pay for studies of those potential unintended consequences.

#31 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-02-06 02:48 PM | Reply

Snoofy,

I am not into your childish games.

Your "question" is spurious as is your straw man in #30.

Nobody posting on this thread seems interested in really digging into this issue to try and fully understand it.

It's all about scoring partisan points.

#32 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-06 02:49 PM | Reply

When all you're thinking is "these stupid liberals can't manage themselves and now the adults are here to force discipline on them immediately" you don't stop and think of unintended consequences, or pay for studies of those potential unintended consequences.

#31 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

I'm not saying that. Fact is, according to the disaster management plan drawn up by those "stupid liberals" (your words), the Flint River was their emergency source of water.

#33 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-06 02:51 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I'm not saying that. Fact is, according to the disaster management plan drawn up by those "stupid liberals" (your words), the Flint River was their emergency source of water.

#33 | Posted by JeffJ

Since when is a disaster management plan the same thing as a budget cutting plan?

#34 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-02-06 03:08 PM | Reply

It wasn't a budget cut. They went to a short-term Plan B (Flint River) and were set to work on a long-term Plan C (Lake Huron was the leading choice) until Plan B failed so spectacularly. The budget had been set and they couldn't afford the price increase.

#35 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-06 03:22 PM | Reply

It wasn't a budget cut. They went to a short-term Plan B (Flint River) and were set to work on a long-term Plan C (Lake Huron was the leading choice) until Plan B failed so spectacularly. The budget had been set and they couldn't afford the price increase.

#35 | Posted by JeffJ

The reason repubs were given undemocratic dictatorial power to run the district as they want was for budget reasons.

They came in, said switch to cheaper water without studying it, and got people poisoned.

#36 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2018-02-06 03:29 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Nobody posting on this thread seems interested in really digging into this issue to try and fully understand it."

You sure aren't.

You say "slew of other factors" and you can't name one.

Not even one.

You have brought no clarity on insight to this discussion.

You have only injected fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

Especially those last two. You are uncertain how to divvy up the blame. You doubt anyone foresaw this outcome.

What are some things you actually do know, and have facts to support?

#37 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-06 03:36 PM | Reply

"My point is, it's not quite as one-sided as you think."

You have not provided any facts to support that point.

Nor will you say exactly how one-sided it is.

But you did accuse me of playing games. I'm trying to play by your rules, can't you see that?

#38 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-06 03:40 PM | Reply

"If you are unwilling to take into account the state of Flint's finances"

I'm willing to take that into account.
How does it change what happened next?
Your rules, see how this works?

#39 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-06 03:50 PM | Reply

I've pointed this thread toward local sources that covered this story far more thoroughly than has been reported elsewhere. I've brought a couple of the more nuanced aspects of what happened (the emergency back up plan, Detroit considerably raising their water fees, etc) onto the thread. I did these things hoping that I could encourage those on this site who are interested in this story to become better informed.

Yet, all you want to do is argue about pretty much everything. I'm not interested in doing that.

It's clear to me that you aren't interested in becoming better informed on this issue. That's fine. Like I said, leading a horse to water, and all that.

#40 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-06 04:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Local sources aren't responsible dear. This is on the governor and his lackeys.

#41 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-06 04:51 PM | Reply

Local sources aren't responsible dear.

Local sources covered this more thoroughly and more responsibly than national sources, like WaPo, NYT, etc.

I don't say that to disparage sources that aren't local, BTW.

#42 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-02-06 04:54 PM | Reply

"I've pointed this thread toward local sources"

Try using your own words.

List the slew of other factors to support your claim, that the poisoning of Flint's water supply wasn't entirely the work of Relublicans.

The closest you've come is noticing that the emergency plan wasn't written by Republicans.

But here's what Michigan actually did:

"Despite warnings and residents' longstanding knowledge of the poor quality of the river's water, the state switched to the Flint River a week later on April 25." www.freep.com

Explain to me why anyone other than the state owns that decision, JeffJ.

Or, just admit Republicans did this.

#43 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-02-06 04:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

This right here is the entire reason JeffJ is wrong. But he won't admit it because he will defend the Republicans as far as he can.

#24 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-02-06 02:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#44 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-06 05:01 PM | Reply

www.npr.org

As we have reported, the lead problem started after Flint switched to a new water source in 2014 to save money. Here's more:

"Water from that new source, the Flint River, was not adequately treated with corrosion controls and this caused lead from pipes to contaminate the water. The city switched back to its original source late last year, but the water remains unsafe."

The task force also found missteps elsewhere. The state's Department of Health and Human Services had the data, according to investigators, but failed to properly analyze it. The city's emergency managers were the ones who made the decision to switch water sources and presided over the change. And, because these are state agencies and state-appointed emergency managers, the task force said "ultimate accountability" rests with Snyder.

#45 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-02-06 05:05 PM | Reply

"I can lead a horse to water but I can't make the horse drink."

And we can lead a Horse's Ass to knowledge but we can't make it think.

#46 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-02-06 05:11 PM | Reply

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