Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, January 15, 2018

Steve Benen, MSNBC: With policymakers facing a series of pressing deadlines, congressional Democrats have taken several steps to work out an agreement on a Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) solution that would protect Dreamers. Just last week, Democratic officials not only briefly persuaded Donald Trump to agree with their position, they also worked out a bipartisan agreement with Senate Republicans. It's against this backdrop that the president spent much of the weekend publishing a series of tweets suggesting the door is effectively closed. "The Democrats are all talk and no action. They are doing nothing to fix DACA. Great opportunity missed. Too bad!" ... Trump appears to be echoing an emerging line that's popular on the right, especially in conservative media: Dems could agree to a DACA compromise, the argument goes, but they'd rather keep the issue alive in order to exploit the controversy for political gain. The problem with the thesis, which the president seems a little too eager to promote, is that it's ridiculous.

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If we allow DACA to die, as Trump suggests, it will be a crime against humanity equal to any other crime ever committed by the American government and our government is guilty of a very long list of crimes against humanity.

#1 | Posted by danni at 2018-01-15 10:39 AM | Reply

How is it a crime against humanity to deport illegals?

#2 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-01-15 11:04 AM | Reply

Trump tried to negotiate in good faith with terrorists/Democrats. His mistake.

#3 | Posted by visitor_ at 2018-01-15 11:21 AM | Reply

"Trump tried to negotiate in good faith with terrorists/Democrats. His mistake."

There shouldn't have been any negotiation necessary to do what is right. Calling Democrats "terrorists" just makes you look childish.

#4 | Posted by danni at 2018-01-15 12:17 PM | Reply

The GOP controls the house, senate and white house. Of course it is the democrats fault.

#5 | Posted by 726 at 2018-01-15 12:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 4

There shouldn't have been any negotiation necessary to do what is right. Calling Democrats "terrorists" just makes you look childish.

#4 | Posted by danni

You damn sure don't know the details of what the gang brought to Trump. If you do, you and I have a vast difference in what is right. It may be proper to give them a path to citizenship but not all their cousins, brothers and in-laws.

Ending the chain migration is right.
Ending the lottery system for immigration is right.
Building 1,500 miles of the wall is right.

All the dems are doing is trying to assure dem voters for another 30 years. That is NOT right. The USA needs talented and educated immigrants, not a bunch of welfare people that are just common labors.

#6 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-01-15 12:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

How is it a crime against humanity to deport illegals?
#2 | Posted by Sniper a

How are they illegals?

#7 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-01-15 12:56 PM | Reply

"What do you say, GOP leaders?" "Send anyone who is not white somewhere else", that's what they say. As to the wall, there's an old saying on the border: Show me a 20 foot wall and I'll show you a 21 foot ladder. People like sniper who love the wall seem to have never heard of ladders.

#8 | Posted by SomebodyElse at 2018-01-15 01:32 PM | Reply

So according to snippy major corporations and businesses are all Dems because in his world it's only Dems who want a stream of cheap migrant labor.

Jesus H righties are dumb. I'd love to see what would happen if Faux News went black one day. It's probably look like the walking dead with all the rightieswandeinf around aimlessly, devoid of spoon fed information and direct input of what to think.

#9 | Posted by jpw at 2018-01-15 02:31 PM | Reply

How are they illegals?

#7 | Posted by truthhurts

You could not possibly be that dumb.

#10 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-01-15 03:09 PM | Reply

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So according to snippy major corporations and businesses are all Dems because in his world it's only Dems who want a stream of cheap migrant labor.

#9 | Posted by jpw

And you want to keep our low skilled citizens on welfare so the illegals can work here in the USA as cheep labor. Do you realize how stoopid that sounds?

#11 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-01-15 03:12 PM | Reply

You got any other positions to make up for me so as not to evaluate the absurdity of your world view?

#12 | Posted by jpw at 2018-01-15 03:15 PM | Reply

"And you want to keep our low skilled citizens on welfare so the illegals can work here in the USA as cheep labor."

Would it be better if our low skilled citizens were not on welfare, would that somehow make the illegals go away?

Then why build a wall???

#13 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 03:15 PM | Reply

God help me, I hate the GOP -------- responsible for this:

After 30 years in U.S., metro Detroit immigrant deported to Mexico

www.freep.com

#14 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-01-15 03:18 PM | Reply

"How is it a crime against humanity to deport illegals?
#2 | Posted by Sniper a"

If you can't understand why it is wrong to deport people who have never really lived in their home country then you're just a very inhumane person.

#15 | Posted by danni at 2018-01-15 03:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I honestly hate Donald Trump for deporting that man Gal. How can he be so heartless?

#16 | Posted by danni at 2018-01-15 03:28 PM | Reply

Danni, I know. I'm really struggling with the amount of anger I'm feeling over cases like this. It's horrible and senseless. It not only devastates this family, but it also doesn't help anyone else. Not one American's life will be better because of this. MAGA, my ---.

#17 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-01-15 03:35 PM | Reply

Trump: ‘We should have merit-based immigration like they have in Canada'

Data from the 2016 Census shows over the last five years there have been more than twice as many immigrants from Central America and the Caribbean (which includes Haiti and El Salvador) than there were from the U.S. There were also more immigrants from the African continent than from the U.S. and North and Western Europe combined.

Clearly a merit-based system does not mean we only admit people from the "Norways" of the world -- and in fact, the census data shows only 230 people immigrated from Norway over the five-year period.

RawStory

#18 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar at 2018-01-15 03:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

How is it a crime against humanity to deport illegals?
#2 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-01-15 11:04 AM |

It never was a crime to deport illegals.
Funny, you never snarked this when Obama deported a record amount of illegals.
But then again, it didn't fit your fake narrative.

#Trumpvoters

#19 | Posted by e1g1 at 2018-01-15 03:53 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

How are they illegals?
#7 | Posted by truthhurts
You could not possibly be that dumb.
#10 | Posted by Sniper

No but you are. Ex. using broadly defined words to avoid having to address the cognitive dissonance in your head.

#20 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-01-15 03:58 PM | Reply

Calling Democrats "terrorists" just makes you look childish.

Agreed, but it's no less absurd than the hyperbole that you use, such as "crimes against humanity" and calling people "traitors" who have differnt views from you.

#21 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-01-15 05:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#6 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-01-15 12:54 PM | Reply | Flagged newsworthy by nullifidian
No surprise.

#22 | Posted by Hans at 2018-01-15 05:58 PM | Reply

That is NOT right. The USA needs talented and educated immigrants, not a bunch of welfare people that are just common labors.

#6 | POSTED BY SNIPER

The USA needs to utilize our own talented citizens and educate our own people, instead of importing educated immigrants simply because they'll work cheaper. And if you don't want immigrants doing our common labor, then start paying Americans more to do those jobs. The only thing that's wrong is employers that exploit immigrants to avoid the true costs of labor.

#23 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2018-01-15 07:27 PM | Reply

"The Democrats are all talk and no action. They are doing nothing to fix DACA. Great opportunity missed. Too bad!"

As if he cares. Trump wants DACA to be dead because so many in his base do.

Erick Erickson‏ @EWErickson

It's weird that people in the room don't remember Trump using that word when Trump himself was calling friends to brag about it afterwards. I spoke to one of those friends. The President thought it would play well with the base.
7:54 AM - 14 Jan 2018

#24 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-01-15 07:39 PM | Reply

If the gov't closes, does Trump think that he can sell the American people on the notion that dems are responsible? If so, he is even more delusional than I thought. Republicans own all the levers of government. They are the governing party. It is their responsibility to be good stewards of the government. If --- happens, it is their responsibility!

#25 | Posted by FedUpWithPols at 2018-01-16 06:45 AM | Reply

26

Wow....unhinged so early?

#27 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-16 09:09 AM | Reply

"That is NOT right. The USA needs talented and educated immigrants, not a bunch of welfare people that are just common labors."

So, who do you suppose is going to pick the crops? Georgia cracked down on illegal aliens and watched their crops rot in the fields.

#28 | Posted by danni at 2018-01-16 09:16 AM | Reply

"Agreed, but it's no less absurd than the hyperbole that you use, such as "crimes against humanity" and calling people "traitors" who have differnt views from you."

Crimes against humanity = deporting young people who have never actually lived in their nation or origin
Traitors = putting the interests of Russia ahead of the United States

That's not hyperbole, it's fact. Virtually every Republican President since Nixon has committed treason in crimes that are entirely documented.

#29 | Posted by danni at 2018-01-16 09:19 AM | Reply

"Wow....unhinged so early"

Wow.... A Full Throated Trumpolovian Response. and so Early

TRIGGERED

#30 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2018-01-16 10:37 AM | Reply

How are they illegals?

#7 | Posted by truthhurts

What part of coming into our country without a visa legal?

#31 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-01-16 10:48 AM | Reply

What part of coming into our country without a visa legal?

#31 | Posted by Sniper

But let's ignore the fact they were dragged here by their parent as children with no choice in the matter.
The Republican Mantra: Blame the victim.

#33 | Posted by greeneyedguy at 2018-01-16 11:09 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"But let's ignore the fact they were dragged here by their parent as children with no choice in the matter."

Funny, that's exactly what most of the pro-DACA people have been doing. Or have they suddenly decided those people should be prosecuted as the child traffickers that they are?

#34 | Posted by sentinel at 2018-01-16 11:21 AM | Reply

Didn't a judge just rule DACA not dead ?

Dems have no reason to "negotiate".

Pass a clean DACA fix or go home and turn off the lights on your way out.

#35 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-01-16 11:35 AM | Reply

But let's ignore the fact they were dragged here by their parent as children with no choice in the matter.
The Republican Mantra: Blame the victim.

#33 | Posted by greeneyedguy

So. it sounds to me like it is their parents problem. By the way, the dems want to give legal status to those parents and all their cousins, brothers, and in-laws.

#36 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-01-16 12:10 PM | Reply

Didn't a judge just rule DACA not dead ?

#35 | Posted by donnerboy

Can you read donnie?

Young immigrants soon facing the loss of deportation protections and work permits are claiming victory after a federal judge temporarily blocked the Trump administration from ending a program that protected hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrants brought to the U.S. as children.

The ruling late Tuesday by U.S. District Judge William Alsup of the Northern District of California in San Francisco ordered the Trump administration to resume allowing so-called "dreamers" to renew their deportation protections and work permits under the program known as Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals. The news came as bipartisan members of Congress and the White House inched closer to hammering out a compromise solution before the program begins to be phased out on March 5.

#37 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-01-16 12:14 PM | Reply

Georgia cracked down on illegal aliens and watched their crops rot in the fields. - #28 | Posted by Danni at 2018-01-16 09:16 AM

So let the crops rot in the fields. If the owner is not willing to offer pay that is sufficient for the work to get done, then they are not paying market price. Their loss in income should result in a gain in knowledge. Next growing season they'll offer more pay, or they are in store for another valuable lesson.
Maintaining access to cheap foods is not a sufficient reason to maintain a sub-class of people here unlawfully. Field-hand shall either become high-paying enough that American workers will move into the jobs, or it will become financially worth-while for the tech industry to create automation methods that will eliminate the need for the field-hand altogether.

#38 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-01-16 12:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Snippy = 'various abusive statements'! - #26 | Posted by aborted_monson at 2018-01-16 08:55 AM
When people of lower IQ have their views challenged in ways they can't refute, they react by getting violent, abusive, and engage in childish name calling - #315 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-10-30 07:09 PM

#39 | Posted by Avigdore at 2018-01-16 12:46 PM | Reply

#37 | Posted by Sniper

So DACA is NOT dead and Trump hasn't killed it yet no matter how hard he has tried.

Trump cause this problem and Trump and his cronies need to solve it.

Pass a CLEAN DACA or turn the lights out and go home and quit pretending you care.

#40 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-01-16 01:08 PM | Reply

Crimes against humanity = deporting young people who have never actually lived in their nation or origin
Traitors = putting the interests of Russia ahead of the United States

That's not hyperbole,

Yes, it's hyperbole to apply your definition to those two terms. They both have generally accepted legal definitions. Your definitions ain't even close.

#41 | Posted by et_al at 2018-01-16 02:58 PM | Reply

Chad Pergram‏ @ChadPergram

GOP SC Sen Graham: I think somebody on the President's staff gave him bad advice..The President I saw on Tuesday is the guy I play golf with. Something happened..how does this end? If it ends with a gov't shutdown? We should all be kicked out of here.

GOP SC Sen Graham on DACA/immigration/border security: We cannot do this with people at the WH who have an irrational view about how we do immigration.

(Chad Pergram covers Congress for FOX News. He's won an Edward R. Murrow Award and the Joan Barone Award for his reporting on Capitol Hill.)

#42 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-01-16 03:02 PM | Reply

Chad Pergram‏ @ChadPergram

GOP SC Sen Graham to DHS Sec Nielsen on Oval Office mtg: "I thought (Trump) did a good job."

Graham to Nielsen: Dick Durbin is about a good person as yuo can hope to work with...close this deal.

#43 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-01-16 03:06 PM | Reply

All these black, brown and yellow people coming into America from -------- countries. Takin' our jobs and living on welfare. Why can't we just limit immigration to six foot tall blonde women under the age of 30 from Norway, Denmark or Sweden. Let's keep it simple. Make America Great Again.

#44 | Posted by moder8 at 2018-01-16 03:13 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

MODER8

"Why can't we just limit immigration to six foot tall blonde women under the age of 30 from Norway, Denmark or Sweden"

Careful, MOD. You're channeling Rigel.

#45 | Posted by Twinpac at 2018-01-16 03:31 PM | Reply

"Yes, it's hyperbole to apply your definition to those two terms."

How about this description of your comment: "blah, blah, blah."

#46 | Posted by danni at 2018-01-16 03:41 PM | Reply

"Field-hand shall either become high-paying enough that American workers will move into the jobs, or it will become financially worth-while for the tech industry to create automation methods that will eliminate the need for the field-hand altogether."

Part of immigration reform is to give immigrants legal status to work so that they can then demand higher wages without fear of being turned over to ICE. You're going to have a hard time finding American citizens willing to pick crops and I don't think that automation will replace farm labor any time soon.

#47 | Posted by danni at 2018-01-16 03:45 PM | Reply

The Justice Department on Tuesday said it would take the "rare step" of asking the Supreme Court to overturn a judge's ruling and clear the way for the Trump administration to dismantle a program that provides work permits to undocumented immigrants who have lived in the United States since childhood.

The Trump administration said it has appealed the judge's injunction -- which said the Obama-era program must continue while a legal challenge to ending it is pending -- to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit.

But the Justice Department will also petition the Supreme Court later this week to intervene in the case, an unusual action that would allow the government to bypass the 9th Circuit altogether in its bid to phase out the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program in March.

The Washington Post

"DACA is dead because the Democrats don't really want it." - Donald Trump, Liar-in-Chief

#48 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar at 2018-01-16 04:07 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"DACA is dead because the Democrats don't really want it."

Right out of volume 1, chapter 6 of Mein Kampf (1925), by Adolf Hitler:

The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly and with unflagging attention. It must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over. Here, as so often in this world, persistence is the first and most important requirement for success.

A few more nice slogans for The Trump Party could (and probably will) use, "War is Peace," "Freedom is Slavery," and "Ignorance is Strength".

#49 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-01-16 04:19 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Trump should end DACA because it exceeds the authortity of the Executive branch.

If Congress passes DACA and Trump signs it - fine.

#50 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-01-16 04:28 PM | Reply

Trump should end DACA because it exceeds the authortity of the Executive branch.
If Congress passes DACA and Trump signs it - fine.
#50 | Posted by JeffJ

what a load of debunked crap

#51 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-01-16 04:49 PM | Reply

It's not debunked at all. I've explained why it's unconstitutional. Heck, look at the court ruling on DAPA.

#52 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-01-16 04:53 PM | Reply

Fake News Alert!

Trump should end DACA because it exceeds the authortity of the Executive branch.

Fake News Alert!

#53 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-01-16 04:54 PM | Reply

I've explained why it's unconstitutional. Heck, look at the court ruling on DAPA.

#52 | Posted by JeffJ

Explain until you are blue in the face. Doesn't change the fact that DACA is legal.

To be clear, a decision to abandon the DACA program would be a political decision -- not a legal one. In fact, the U.S. government has repeatedly -- and successfully -- defended DACA against constitutional challenges. Indeed, every legal challenge to the DACA program has failed.

A new open letter to the president by 105 law professors makes clear that the DACA program is lawful and constitutional. As the letter explains, DACA is a form of temporary protection from deportation known as "deferred action." Deferred action is one way in which the executive branch historically has exercised discretion over whom should and shouldn't be deported from the United States. DACA specifically grants people who came to the United States as children, pass a criminal background check, and meet educational and other criteria permission to live and work in the country on a two-year, renewable basis.

Programs like DACA make common sense. The government has limited resources and needs to pick and choose the people it goes after. And that's especially true when it comes to a penalty as severe as deportation -- that is, banishment from your home or what the Supreme Court has called the loss of "all that makes life worth living."

www.aclu.org

links to the Open Letter to Trump.
https://medium.com/@shobawadhia/dacas-five-year-anniversary-more-than-100-law-professors-support-legality-
of-daca-74ef00e0d2cd

#54 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-01-16 04:58 PM | Reply

The ACLU doesn't address positive benefits granted to people who are prohibited by law to receive them. A temporary halt on deportations falls into the category of selective enforcement and if DACA was limited to that, it wouldn't be unconstitutional. But, it's not limited to that.

#55 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-01-16 05:03 PM | Reply

Trump should end DACA because it exceeds the authortity of the Executive branch.

If Congress passes DACA and Trump signs it - fine.

#50 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-01-16 04:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

Your blatant ignorance is showing yet again.

#56 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-01-16 05:03 PM | Reply

You guys (and gals) cannot beat the legal argument I'm making. You can't.

#57 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-01-16 05:04 PM | Reply

You guys (and gals) cannot beat the legal argument I'm making. You can't.
#57 | Posted by JeffJ

You had your ass handed to you on this topic a few days ago. Reminder the courts don't agree with you.

#58 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-01-16 05:05 PM | Reply

You guys (and gals) cannot beat the legal argument I'm making. You can't.

#57 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-01-16 05:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

You can squawk all you want to doesn't make it factual.

#59 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-01-16 05:08 PM | Reply

The ACLU doesn't address positive benefits granted to people who are prohibited by law to receive them. A temporary halt on deportations falls into the category of selective enforcement and if DACA was limited to that, it wouldn't be unconstitutional. But, it's not limited to that.
#55 | Posted by JeffJ a

how many errors are possible in one post?!?

en.wikipedia.org

It doesn't halt deportations, it "...some individuals who entered the country as minors, and had either entered or remained in the country illegally, to receive a renewable two-year period of deferred action from deportation and to be eligible for a work permit."

It defers enforcement

stop lying

and your comment about positive benefit is just downright nonsensical.

now let me get back to watching Return of the Living Dead

#60 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-01-16 05:09 PM | Reply

Research shows that DACA increased the wages and labor force participation of DACA-eligible immigrants,[3][4][5] and reduced the number of unauthorized immigrant households living in poverty.[6] Studies have shown that DACA increased the mental health outcomes for DACA-eligible immigrants and their children.[7][8][9] There are no known major adverse impacts from DACA on native-born workers' employment while most economists say that DACA benefits the U.S. economy.[10][11][12][13] To be eligible for the program, recipients may not have felonies or serious misdemeanors on their records. There is no evidence that DACA-eligible individuals are more likely to commit crimes than any other person within the US.[14]

OH THE HORRORS!

#61 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-01-16 05:10 PM | Reply

to receive a renewable two-year period of deferred action from deportation and to be eligible for a work permit."

The law says if they are here illegally, they are not eligible for a work permit. Their immigration status precludes them from being eligible for a work permit. DACA is not a pardon. DACA does not change their immigration-status thus making the issuance of work permits unconstitutional.

It defers enforcement - same thing.

#62 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-01-16 05:17 PM | Reply

You had your ass handed to you on this topic a few days ago. Reminder the courts don't agree with you.

#58 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

See: Courts rule on DAPA

#63 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-01-16 05:18 PM | Reply

See: Courts rule on DAPA
#63 | Posted by JeffJ a

WHy don't you see courts ruling on DACA? Oh yeah they didn't rule DACA unconstitutional.

#64 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-01-16 05:19 PM | Reply

I can't find a court case on DACA - only the recent one which a single judge ruled that Trump couldn't rescind it, which is absurd on its face. Amazing. An EO can't be undone by an EO. I can only find a court case on DAPA.

#65 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-01-16 05:25 PM | Reply

The law says if they are here illegally, they are not eligible for a work permit. Their immigration status precludes them from being eligible for a work permit. DACA is not a pardon. DACA does not change their immigration-status thus making the issuance of work permits unconstitutional.

Please make a legal/constitutional argument that refutes what I just reproduced.

#66 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-01-16 05:26 PM | Reply

thinkprogress.org

DACA is not unconstitutional
The Trump administration's case against the DACA program is nonsense.

The DACA program was created by the Obama administration through a 2012 executive action -- that is, the executive branch relied on a combination of its own authority and the powers delegated to it by Congress in order to form DACA. Indeed, the case for or against DACA isn't really a constitutional case at all. It is a question of whether federal laws enacted by Congress permitted the Obama administration to act as it did.

As Justice Robert Jackson famously wrote in Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer, "when the President acts pursuant to an express or implied authorization of Congress, his authority is at its maximum, for it includes all that he possesses in his own right plus all that Congress can delegate." Should a presidential action be held unconstitutional under these circumstances, "it usually means that the Federal Government as an undivided whole lacks power" to act as the president wishes to act.

#67 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-01-16 05:33 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

That isn't a refutation of what I said, Laura.

#68 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-01-16 05:51 PM | Reply

That isn't a refutation of what I said, Laura.

Posted by JeffJ at 2018-01-16 05:51 PM | Reply

It damned sure is.

#69 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2018-01-16 05:53 PM | Reply

It is a question of whether federal laws enacted by Congress permitted the Obama administration to act as it did.

The answer is, they didn't, for the reason I already outlined.

#70 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-01-16 06:03 PM | Reply

Current voting law is that convicted felons cannot vote. Under the DACA legal argument you are saying the POTUS can issue voting registration cards to them anyways, should he choose to do so.

You know full well POTUS can't do that, just like POTUS can't issue work permits to those whose immigration status precludes them from receiving.

#71 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-01-16 06:09 PM | Reply

A federal judge just decided that DACA must stay in place, so it must be unconstitutional!

We wouldn't even be having this argument if Trump didn't get a kick out of trashing everything he can get his tiny hands on.

#72 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar at 2018-01-16 06:21 PM | Reply

You guys (and gals) cannot beat the legal argument I'm making. You can't.

#57 | Posted by JeffJ

We don't have to beat YOUR legal argument. It has already been beat. Every legal challenge to the DACA program has failed.

"The ACLU doesn't address positive benefits granted to people who are prohibited by law to receive them."

The Dreamers pay for themselves in economic benefits to our society. However, if it is your contention that America must not give them any benefits then be a typical GOtPer and take away those benefits. Pass a clean DACA bill and document that whole Ebenezer Scrooge attitude of yours for the record.

History will not be kind to the folks who take this attitude toward the Dreamers, who are patriotic Americans working hard to make this country a more perfect union.

#73 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-01-16 06:26 PM | Reply

We wouldn't even be having this argument if Trump didn't get a kick out of trashing everything OBAMA accomplished he can get his tiny hands on.

#72 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar

FTFY

#74 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-01-16 06:29 PM | Reply

According to your legal argument, Trump can start issuing drivers licenses to 15-year olds.

Do you really believe that?

I bet you don't.

#75 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-01-16 06:56 PM | Reply

Pass a clean DACA bill

Pass a bill. Now there is a novel concept.

#76 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-01-16 06:57 PM | Reply

According to your legal argument, Trump can start issuing drivers licenses to 15-year olds.
Do you really believe that?
I bet you don't.
#75 | Posted by JeffJ

driver's licenses and voting permits are state issues

#77 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-01-16 06:59 PM | Reply

According to your legal argument, Trump can start issuing drivers licenses to 15-year olds.
Do you really believe that?
I bet you don't.
#75 | Posted by JeffJ
driver's licenses and voting permits are state issues

#77 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

OK. By your legal reasoning Trump can start administering Social Security benefits 2 years before eligibility. Can he do that? We both know the answer to that question.

You are sidestepping the argument.

#78 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-01-16 07:02 PM | Reply

OK. By your legal reasoning Trump can start administering Social Security benefits 2 years before eligibility. Can he do that? We both know the answer to that question.
You are sidestepping the argument.
#78 | Posted by JeffJ

Wrong, the Social Security Administration does not fall under the Executive Branch. Please try again.

We had this discussion, the President through the DoJ and HSA have prosecutorial discretion.

#79 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-01-16 07:11 PM | Reply

You are sidestepping the argument.

#78 | Posted by JeffJ

Since they are legal residents DACA allows recipients to apply for social security numbers, which are required to claim the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), a major tax benefit for lower-income earners. The program allows recipients to participate in Social Security and Medicare as well, but they generally cannot receive benefits until retirement age.

To "participate" they have to pay into those programs. So they are not getting lots "free" benefits as you seem to be suggesting suggesting. They are still ineligible for most forms of welfare including food stamps and Medicaid.

#80 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-01-16 07:12 PM | Reply

Since they are legal residents...They are NOT legal residents. That is why action was being deferred.

Wrong, the Social Security Administration does not fall under the Executive Branch. Please try again.

Which branch of government does it fall under? The judiciary?

We had this discussion, the President through the DoJ and HSA have prosecutorial discretion.

#79 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

Agreed. Deferring action on deportation is exercising prosecutorial discretion. Issuing work permits to people residing illegally is unconstitutional because the only way to change the legality of their residence would be to issue a pardon and no pardon was issued.

#81 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-01-16 07:15 PM | Reply

It defers enforcement - same thing.

#62 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-01-16 05:17 PM | FLAG:

No, it really isn't. The executive uses its discretion as far as enforcement goes all the time. As you well know.

#82 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-01-16 07:15 PM | Reply

The executive uses its discretion as far as enforcement goes all the time....

#82 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

Agreed. Selective enforcement is applied at ALL levels because law enforcement agencies have limited resources. it's a necessity.

#83 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-01-16 07:19 PM | Reply

Why should we even characterize work and school permits as the provision of positive benefits anyway, as opposed to the deferral of the prohibition on the dispensing of such benefits until the legal status of the people in question can be clarified?

#84 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-01-16 07:21 PM | Reply

@81

The SSA is an independant government agency.

I would assume that HSA has the authority to issue permits to those that they deem eligible. I admittedly dont know the nuts and bolts of the permit eligibility requirements, but permitting them to work is far more beneficial than allowing them to be here and NOT permitting them to work.

#85 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-01-16 07:24 PM | Reply

I would assume that HSA has the authority to issue permits to those that they deem eligible.

They are bound by statute.

I admittedly dont know the nuts and bolts of the permit eligibility requirements, but permitting them to work is far more beneficial than allowing them to be here and NOT permitting them to work.

#85 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS

I think that's a persuasive argument, however it's one that doesn't apply to the constitutionality of DACA. Wise policy can be unconstitutional.

#86 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-01-16 07:35 PM | Reply

Why should we even characterize work and school permits as the provision of positive benefits anyway, as opposed to the deferral of the prohibition on the dispensing of such benefits until the legal status of the people in question can be clarified?

#84 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN

The legal status isn't in question, thus there is nothing to clarify. DACA doesn't change the legal status of "Dreamers". POTUS can't change their legal status, only congress can do that with the passage of a new law that redefines legal residence.

#87 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-01-16 07:37 PM | Reply


"Since they are legal residents..."

They are NOT legal residents. That is why action was being deferred.

DACA recipients have been able to come out of the shadows and obtain valid driver's licenses, enroll in college and legally secure jobs. They also pay income taxes.

Under DACA, Dreamers were able to apply to defer deportation and legally reside in the US for two years. After that, they could apply for renewal.

That means to me that they are here LEGALLY. What does it mean to you?

#88 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-01-16 07:46 PM | Reply

The legal status isn't in question, thus there is nothing to clarify. DACA doesn't change the legal status of "Dreamers". POTUS can't change their legal status, only congress can do that with the passage of a new law that redefines legal residence.

#87 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2018-01-16 07:37 PM | FLAG:

In theory, a revision of their legal status by congress is pending. So, again, doesn't it make sense to characterize allowing them to stay and work in the meantime an appropriate exercise of executive discretion?

#89 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-01-16 08:07 PM | Reply

#88. POTUS can't change their legal status. That is why those aspects of DACA are unconstitutional.

#89

That's a great argument for deferred action and if that was all DACA does I'd wholeheartedly agree with you.

#90 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-01-16 08:16 PM | Reply

#88. POTUS can't change their legal status. That is why those aspects of DACA are unconstitutional.

Same crap you ----- tried to pull on the ACA. Whining incessantly for years that it was "unconstitutional". Turns out it WAS constitutional.

DACA cannot be "unconstitutional" until it is ruled unconstitutional...which as far as I know, it has not been.

#91 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-01-16 09:40 PM | Reply

DACA cannot be "unconstitutional" until it is ruled unconstitutional...which as far as I know, it has not been.
#91 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

Well, you KNOW who is the sole arbiter of what is and is not constitutional, don't you?

You playin' with FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRE! imgur.com

#92 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2018-01-16 10:09 PM | Reply

Well, you KNOW who is the sole arbiter of what is and is not constitutional, don't you?

The political party that controls both the Executive Branch and the Senate at the same time?

#93 | Posted by REDIAL at 2018-01-16 10:13 PM | Reply

The political party that controls both the Executive Branch and the Senate at the same time?
#93 | POSTED BY REDIAL

WRONG!

It's JEFFJ.

Shame on you and your tutoring needs.

#94 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2018-01-16 10:25 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Shame on you and your tutoring needs.

I'm a Canuck so I just have to guess...

#95 | Posted by REDIAL at 2018-01-16 10:41 PM | Reply

Same crap you ----- tried to pull on the ACA. Whining incessantly for years that it was "unconstitutional". Turns out it WAS constitutional.

Here are the constitutional arguments I made against ACA:

Individual mandate exceeds the powers of the interstate commerce clause. On that, i was correct. Roberts twisted everything into knots calling it a tax, but many on the left were quietly peeved about it because even though Roberts saved the mandate, he set a limit on the interstate commerce clause. The precedent that set has huge implications going forward.

The way IPAB is structured - unconstitutional. I created a thread about it and the liberals on this site who chose to weigh in ultimately agreed with me.

The last argument wasn't constitutional, it was statutory - ONLY states that set up their own exchanges should be eligible for the subsidies. Not only was the language clear, but the intent was clear. Problem was the architects of the law never imagined that 33 states would opt to not set up their own exchanges.

While I was disgusted by the sausage making process, including the bribes (Cornhusker kickback, Louisiana purchase, etc), it wasn't unconstitutional.

#96 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-01-16 11:08 PM | Reply

Well, you KNOW who is the sole arbiter of what is and is not constitutional, don't you?

I laid out my argument as to why, and thus far it hasn't been refuted.

As it stands now, it's being talked about as a legislative bargaining chip. If DACA makes its way into a bill and Trump signs it, the Constitutional issue will go away.

#97 | Posted by JeffJ at 2018-01-16 11:10 PM | Reply

"thus far it hasn't been refuted. "

Except, of course, by the court.

#98 | Posted by Danforth at 2018-01-16 11:14 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

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