Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, January 15, 2018

The Martin Luther King, Jr. Holiday celebrates the life and legacy of a man who brought hope and healing to America. We commemorate as well the timeless values he taught us through his example -- the values of courage, truth, justice, compassion, dignity, humility and service that so radiantly defined Dr. King's character and empowered his leadership. On this holiday, we commemorate the universal, unconditional love, forgiveness and nonviolence that empowered his revolutionary spirit.

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Happy birthday, Dr. King.

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Happy birthday Dr. King!
Thanks for the day off!

#1 | Posted by GOnoles92 at 2018-01-15 10:20 AM | Reply

I have a dream too, I dream of a day when Republicans don't openly try to suppress the votes of minorities, the elderly and students. No Republican should be so hypocritical today to pretend that they did support or do support real civil rights for minorities. It's laughable.

#2 | Posted by danni at 2018-01-15 10:53 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

ddan, I have a dream just about like yours but it is just a little different. Mine is the dems don't wake the dead to vote on election day.

#3 | Posted by Sniper at 2018-01-15 10:55 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

We commemorate as well the timeless values he taught us through his example -- the values of courage, truth, justice, compassion, dignity, humility and service that so radiantly defined Dr. King's character and empowered his leadership.

Like NFL players having the guts to kneel during the national anthem to protest how blacks are treated by police.

Why can't whites understand this?

Why even have a MLK Day if white Americans cannot even understand what MLK stood for?

Race relations in America are not what they should be because white people want it that way, period.

I'm white, and I know EXACTLY how white people think -- which is mostly shallow, selfish, with little perspective and practically no empathy. White America's reaction to kneeling NFL players and Black Lives Matter show us all that I'm 100% right.

#4 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-01-15 10:56 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The Dream lives on.

The realization of that dream continues to be stymied.

Trump is one manifestation of those obstacles, and a reflection of what the country has become.

#5 | Posted by bayviking at 2018-01-15 11:12 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Race relations in America are not what they should be because white people want it that way, period."

I think it's not so much that whites prefer poor race relations. Rather, they just believe race relations are better than what they really are.

#6 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 11:22 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

Have a good holiday, everyone. I'm working today because of some meetings later in the day. It would be nice to have the time off but I never get off my butt and attend MLK Day events. I kind of suck at commemorating holidays.

#7 | Posted by rcade at 2018-01-15 11:22 AM | Reply

I've never had an employer that recognized MLK day.

I guess that means I'm a racist because I work for racist companies.

sorry about that.......

#8 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 11:23 AM | Reply

#5 - Bayviking

From my perspective, Trump has brought out the ugly truth of the hidden racism people have had in their lives. Now that people have been exposed we can address the issue and see a change. Allowing racism to continue on silently in the shadows was not in our best interests. Growing pains.

#9 | Posted by gavaster at 2018-01-15 11:30 AM | Reply

#4 Like NFL players having the guts to kneel during the national anthem to protest how blacks are treated by police.

Samantha Bee is thinking like you:

Full Frontal‏ @FullFrontalSamB

Full Frontal Retweeted Vice President Mike Pence
Three months ago, you walked out of an event in disgust because of a non-violent protest by black athletes.

Vice President Mike Pence‏ @VP

Honored to lay a wreath at MLK Jr. Memorial w/ @SecondLady. He was a great American leader who inspired a movement & transformed a Nation. He took the words of our Founders to heart to forge a more perfect union based on the notion all men are created equal & in the image of God.

#10 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-01-15 11:40 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

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Trump has brought out the ugly truth of the hidden racism people have had in their lives.

And we as a country will never heal until we understand that sometimes, that "racism" isn't always white on black.

#11 | Posted by boaz at 2018-01-15 11:41 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

I think it's not so much that whites prefer poor race relations. Rather, they just believe race relations are better than what they really are.

#6 | POSTED BY EBERLY

You're white, and you're letting white people off the hook.

White people thinking that race relations are better goes to show white peoples lack of understanding to what MLK stood for ...

If one is white, here's a simple thought experiment = would MLK be okay with kneeling NFL players? Yet white America went crazy over this issue for the reasons I've spelled out.

When it comes to race, white people need to talk less and listen more.

#12 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-01-15 11:49 AM | Reply

#7 I disagree. You provide an outlet here in his memory celebrating his birthday and dreams. IMHO that beats sitting in a folding chair watching a parade anyday.

#13 | Posted by gracieamazed at 2018-01-15 11:52 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

And we as a country will never heal until we understand that sometimes, that "racism" isn't always white on black.

#11 | POSTED BY BOAZ

There's more white people than black people so your equivocating isn't all that meaningful.

We're all human, so there's always be resent regardless of which group is in the minority.

The only way America will ever get past it's racism for white America to get it thru their thick skulls that they're not the center of the universe and to exercise some critical thinking, empathy wise, for people who are not like them.

#14 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-01-15 11:57 AM | Reply

Trump has brought out the ugly truth of the hidden racism people have had in their lives.

I think Trump gave a lot of closet racists the belief they could become open racists because their beliefs are widely held.

One of the biggest challenges we face is to convince them they are wrong so they go back under their rocks.

#15 | Posted by rcade at 2018-01-15 11:58 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

ddan, I have a dream just about like yours but it is just a little different. Mine is the dems don't wake the dead to vote on election day.

#3 | POSTED BY SNIPER

I have a dream that Trumpsters will be so broken by the epic con job they've been had by by Trump et al that they'll become apathetic about voting and leave the elections to the above average IQ folks in the country.

#16 | Posted by jpw at 2018-01-15 12:02 PM | Reply

Meanwhile the Republican Party still openly uses the Southern Strategy to win Presidential elections which basically gets its power from white resentment against the Civil Rights movement.

#17 | Posted by danni at 2018-01-15 12:03 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Rather, they just believe race relations are better than what they really are.

#6 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Bingo.

#18 | Posted by jpw at 2018-01-15 12:04 PM | Reply

#11 | POSTED BY BOAZ

Deflection noted. Now shut up and go sit in the corner. You are a part of the problem with your "I know I am but what are you?" --------.

#12 | Pinchaloaf

Step off the high and enlightened "woke" horse. Race relations ARE better, but they aren't where they need to be. Also, you don't know what you don't know. When you're white and don't experience or see racism on a day to day basis it's easy to miss, especially if you are not a racist.

BTW...we are European-Americans you racist bastard. :)

#19 | Posted by gavaster at 2018-01-15 12:05 PM | Reply

"And we as a country will never heal until we understand that sometimes, that "racism" isn't always white on black." - #11 | Posted by pfc. boazo at 2018-01-15 11:41 AM

And you as a person will never heal until you understand that white on black racism is the predominate racism in this country, from the time of the arrival of the first slave ships, through the founding of our country (3/5 "solution"), through the Civil War, through Jim Crow, through "separate but equal," through the KKK (post Civil War, 1900-1930s, and post WWII), through post WWII red lining, through the Freedom Riders, through Greensboro, Selma, and other cities in the 1960s, through the "Southern Strategy," through Reagan's speech in Philadelphia Mississippi, all the way through the voter suppression measures underway today.

Grow up, wake us, and open your eyes, pfc. boazo.

#20 | Posted by Hans at 2018-01-15 12:06 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"so they go back under their rocks."

#15 | POSTED BY RCADE

No. No, no, no, no, no, no, NOOOOOOO!! Hidden racism isn't the answer. We've had that for the past however many years. Racism needs to be brought out into the light, challenged, and changed! We don't need racists hiding under rocks. We need them to learn they are wrong and change.

#21 | Posted by gavaster at 2018-01-15 12:07 PM | Reply

My #20: "wake us" = "wake up"

#22 | Posted by Hans at 2018-01-15 12:07 PM | Reply

#19

Boaz's post isn't a deflection, it's a reality. Here in LA, which probably is one of the more tolerant major cities in the US, there is still plenty of white/black, white/hispanic, black/korean, black/hispanic and korean/hispanic animus that is noticeable on a regular basis.

The only way to defeat racism is through education and diversification, when people pull together to a common cause differences in skin color and ethnicity tend to disappear among most of the participants.

#23 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 12:13 PM | Reply

Race relations ARE better, but they aren't where they need to be. Also, you don't know what you don't know. When you're white and don't experience or see racism on a day to day basis it's easy to miss, especially if you are not a racist.

#19 | POSTED BY GAVASTER

The majority has a moral obligation to ensure the minority (or minorities) are treated fairly.

This applies anywhere there are human beings.

Why does America struggle with this simple concept? I know my answer -- it's spelled out in post #4.

#24 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-01-15 12:14 PM | Reply

#20

Just because White/Black racism is the most prevalent doesn't mean that the others aren't just as destructive and evil.

#25 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 12:15 PM | Reply

The majority has a moral obligation to ensure the minority (or minorities) are treated fairly.

Victim mentality doesn't solve the problem, everyone needs to treat everyone else fairly, which was Dr. King's point. That's why it's called "equal justice under the law."

#26 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 12:17 PM | Reply

Just because White/Black racism is the most prevalent doesn't mean that the others aren't just as destructive and evil.

#25 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

That's stating the obvious, and most importantly, that's not the main problem.

#27 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-01-15 12:18 PM | Reply

And we as a country will never heal until we understand that sometimes, that "racism" isn't always white on black.

#11 | POSTED BY BOAZ

so true.

What are you gonna do about it?

#28 | Posted by kudzu at 2018-01-15 12:21 PM | Reply

that's not the main problem.

Ignoring that reality is part of the problem, it's not a one way street.

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

Dr. King was talking about everyone: white, black, hispanic, asian, muslim, jewish, christian, buddist, hindu right, left, tall, short etc. It's not a problem that can be simplified, the solution has to be embraced by everyone.

#29 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 12:27 PM | Reply

#24 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF

Empathy requires knowledge. Lumping "most" white people into one shallow & selfish pool is ignorant and counter productive. Your projections of responsibility not-with-standing, white people can't speak for minorities. I can't tell you how an African-American feels about racism in America. As an american white male I have little experience in the struggle of being a minority in America. As an individual I can vote and fight for your rights as a minority and make sure your voice is heard when injustice is raised. But don't ask me to speak for a minority. I'm not qualified to tell you what's fair to a minority.

#30 | Posted by gavaster at 2018-01-15 12:35 PM | Reply

MLK jr's father was in Germany, where he read and studied some of the works of Martin Luther (the monk). It is obvious that he never studied all of Luther's writings because there was a dark period in Martin Luther's life where he wrote hatred and condescension. It is no surprise that MLK Sr didn't read those because they were heavily suppressed by germany.

The reason these writings were so suppressed was because they were used by Hitler to justify his destruction of the Jews. And Hitler did not take them out of context.

The point is that one man wrote many things, some that inspired people to create one of the largest, most powerful and wealthiest religious philosophies the world has ever known, the philosophy of the protestants.

Some of his writings, along with the writings of the Buddha and the writings of ghandi, inspired Martin Luther King Jr.

But all of these things have something in common. They all happened because of the necessity of people to reduce complex problems down to fit inside their own narrow perspective.

#31 | Posted by kudzu at 2018-01-15 12:37 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Victim mentality doesn't solve the problem, everyone needs to treat everyone else fairly, which was Dr. King's point. That's why it's called "equal justice under the law."

#26 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

Wrong

You have it exactly backwards.

The majority ensuring that minorities are treated fairly hardly qualifies as a "victim mentality". It's the majority who has the biggest say when it comes to how laws are written.

If white politicians embodied the values promoted by MLK -- instead of giving meaningless lip service to them -- America wouldn't have a race problem.

Judging the character of the person? Not when there's so much political currency and campaign contributions to be had ... Obama (Tea Party & Freedom Caucus), Obama's birth certificate (Trump & right-wing media), Black Lives Matter (right-wing media), kneeling NFL players (more right-wing media) ...

Where are the white politicians of leading the charge to tamp down on all this? They don't say anything because it's against their interest to do so.

#32 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-01-15 12:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Dr. MLK would be so proud of Americans arguing over who is more oppressed.

#33 | Posted by truthhurts at 2018-01-15 12:40 PM | Reply

i had a dream. Then OBAMA stole it

Sincerely

Rightoeberlystangj

#34 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2018-01-15 12:46 PM | Reply

But don't ask me to speak for a minority. I'm not qualified to tell you what's fair to a minority.

#30 | POSTED BY GAVASTER

We're both white -- and it's the white majority's responsibility to speak up when it comes to a white person's lack of understanding, that's my point. We need to talk to white people to set them straight.

White people, like pretty much all human beings, don't like being lectured to.

And white people ESPECIALLY don't like being lectured to by black people -- white people will smile and nod their heads up and down, then go vote in the voting booth for those exact opposite values that MLK stood for.

If you or other white people don't agree with me, so be it -- but if we wait for every uptight white person to become enlightened after their interaction with some random black person, we'll never get there.

#35 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-01-15 12:53 PM | Reply

"You're white, and you're letting white people off the hook."

How am I doing that? IOW, how did I admit such a thing in my post?

#36 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 12:56 PM | Reply

"then go vote in the voting booth for those exact opposite values that MLK stood for."

really?

so, when Bernie Sanders drove the campaign in the last dem primary towards a focus on the unequal playing field blacks have (especially with the war on drugs and how that's specifically harmed blacks), most democrats went to the voting booth and.......that's right......voted against him.

is that what you meant?

#37 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 01:00 PM | Reply

If white politicians embodied the values promoted by MLK -- instead of giving meaningless lip service to them -- America wouldn't have a race problem.

#32 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF

This is one of those things that sounds good, but is not really true. It is especially not true in america where advanced individualism is practised.

#38 | Posted by kudzu at 2018-01-15 01:03 PM | Reply

#10 | POSTED BY GAL_TUESDAY: News Worthy

My point exactly.

Pence and his orange ----------- of a boss should not be playing racial politics.

And white people shouldn't be so easily duped into buying into the racially divisive actions by white politicians.

#39 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-01-15 01:05 PM | Reply

They all happened because of the necessity of people to reduce complex problems down to fit inside their own narrow perspective.

Exactly my point, and Pinch is the perfect exemplar of it:

it's the white majority's responsibility to speak up when it comes to a white person's lack of understanding, that's my point. We need to talk to white people to set them straight.

It's also the black/asian/hispanic minorities responsibility to speak up when it comes to a black/asian/hispanic person's lack of understanding...we need to talk to black/asian/hispanic people to set them straight as well.

The amount of black prejudice against Koreans here in LA, mostly based on the perception that KTown took over their neighborhoods, was a big problem during the Rodney King riots in 92 and while better, is still pretty prevalent, so much so that the LA Times based a series of articles about it last April as part of its series commemorating the 92 riots. With the rise of the latino population, black/hispanic prejudice is on the rise, mostly in Baldwin Park and South LA, is escalating rapidly.

25 years after racial tensions erupted, black and Korean communities reflect on L.A. riots

This is not solely a "white" problem, it is an "us" problem and can only be bridged through education and a commonality of purpose.

#40 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 01:12 PM | Reply

#35 - Pinchaloaf

"Race relations in America are not what they should be because white people want it that way, period."

This is the statement you made in #4 I contest. Ignorance, not intent, is the biggest problem. Those who have racist intent are now exposed, mostly, and need to be educated while we've brought the topic to the fore-front. But there are way more who are ignorant and need to be made aware of the racism still in "Amerika!"

#41 | Posted by gavaster at 2018-01-15 01:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Dr. MLK would be so proud of Americans arguing over who is more oppressed.

#33 | POSTED BY TRUTHHURTS AT 2018-01-15 12:40 PM

Why am I not surprised that you are completely missing the point...we are not talking about oppression but recognition, understanding and resolution.

#42 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 01:21 PM | Reply

This is not solely a "white" problem, it is an "us" problem and can only be bridged through education and a commonality of purpose.

#40 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

You're again pointing out the obvious -- yes, human beings regardless of race can be racist. You're still missing the point.

Ever heard of Jim Crow?

You're implying that black people never spoke out against the injustices imposed on them during the 80 years of Jim Crow.

Well of course black people spoke out, and where did it get them? 80 years To FINALLY Do the right thing -- and that's progress?

Again, the majority has the moral obligation to ensure the minority is treated fairly -- simple stuff.

#43 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-01-15 01:32 PM | Reply

Why am I not surprised that you are completely missing the point...we are not talking about oppression but recognition, understanding and resolution.

#42 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

Chesty Puller would have taken the direct approach -- aka, my approach.

#44 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-01-15 01:35 PM | Reply

Ignorance, not intent, is the biggest problem. Those who have racist intent are now exposed, mostly, and need to be educated while we've brought the topic to the fore-front. But there are way more who are ignorant and need to be made aware of the racism still in "Amerika!"

#41 | POSTED BY GAVASTER

Totally agree -- most of America doesn't have a college degree.

But I'd still be cautious about intent considering polls after Charlottesville show millions of Americans indirectly sympathize with racial views that align with white supremacy.

#45 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-01-15 01:41 PM | Reply

#44

All you have said is "why can't whites understand this"? That is not an approach, that is a whine.

Chesty was famous for treating everyone the same way, and that is what I am advocating. It is an education problem for everyone, regardless of color, creed or politics.

#46 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 01:48 PM | Reply

All you have said is "why can't whites understand this"? That is not an approach, that is a whine.

Chesty was famous for treating everyone the same way, and that is what I am advocating. It is an education problem for everyone, regardless of color, creed or politics.

#46 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

Rhetorical questions are just that -- you know this.

And Chesty Puller was more brawn than brain.

#47 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-01-15 01:58 PM | Reply

- I think Trump gave a lot of closet racists the belief they could become open racists because their beliefs are widely held.

The hoods are off thanks to Trump and the Republicans who enable him.

In my early to late teens in the '60's the hoods were still on and my generation watched in horror as John and Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King were assassinated for their progressive anti-racial, anti-discriminatory, anti-poverty, pro-education, pro-safety net, and pro-peace beliefs and policies.

Watched while three Civil Rights workers were murdered by over 20 members of the Klan while investigating a church burning in Mississippi.

As a small child in the 50's I remember the two water fountains side by side at the entrance to the huge Leonard Bros dept store (later Tandy Corp, then Radio Shack) across the street from the still impressive downtown Fort Worth train station (where TCU Horned Frogs gets their train whistle TD sound}.... there was a sign above each fountain, one read Whites Only, the other Blacks Only.

The death in prison a few days ago of the Klan leader who planned the murder of the 3 young progressives in Mississippi recalled that the other 6 who were a direct part of the murders never spent more than 6 years in jail; the only convictions that could be had from a local jury were for violating the civil rights of the workers.

This is the America that Trump and his white nationalist supporters mean when they say MAGA.

RIP MLK

#48 | Posted by Corky at 2018-01-15 02:07 PM | Reply

"This is not solely a "white" problem, it is an "us" problem and can only be bridged through education and a commonality of purpose."

It's a white problem.
Blacks didn't create racism in this country, whites did that.
It's up to whites to undo it.

#49 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 02:10 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#47

If your approach is education for all, then we agree, as that will also force the majority to be more enlightened about the needs of the minority. It isn't that simple, but the best start imaginable.

Chesty was a brilliant tactician, but the sheer size of his balls overshadowed his intellect.

#50 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 02:13 PM | Reply

Happy birthday Dr. King!
Thanks for the day off!
#1 | POSTED BY GONOLES92

Kill four more, get the whole week.

#51 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 02:13 PM | Reply

The racial disparity in our country is exemplified by how we fight the war on drugs. Crack hit black communities hardest and was called a crime wave. Opioid abuse is most prevalent in the white suburbs so it is called an epidemic. One group gets taken straight to jail while the other goes to rehab.

#52 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-01-15 02:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#52

You are not wrong, but what about Crystal Meth? It is also called a crime wave and predominantly effects white people.

What you are describing is as much a socio-economic problem as a racial one.

#53 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 02:20 PM | Reply

"The racial disparity in our country is exemplified by how we fight the war on drugs."

Jeff Sessions is the poster boy for that particular brand of institutional racism.

Drain The Swamp! (of coloreds. DC is like 90% black.)

#54 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 02:20 PM | Reply

#49

Goofy obviously skipped to the end of the thread.

Ok, give us your solution since you are part of the problem.

#55 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 02:21 PM | Reply

*waiting for a series of deflecting statements framed as questions*

#56 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 02:23 PM | Reply

"What you are describing is as much a socio-economic problem as a racial one."

The median black household is worth about $6,800.
The median white household is worth about $100,000
If that's not predominantly due to racism, then what?

The "socio-economic problem" is a reflection of the racial divide.

#57 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 02:24 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Ok, give us your solution."

Engaging people like you, with the hopes of educating them.

#58 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 02:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"It's up to whites to undo it."

good luck with that.

Some whites think they are part of the solution, but they aren't.

some whites are beholden to racism and will outright be an obstacle

some whites are just lazy and apathetic and close their eyes.

#59 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 02:25 PM | Reply

"series of deflecting statements"
RightOCenter

"since you are part of the problem"
Also RightOCenter

#60 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 02:26 PM | Reply

"some whites are just lazy and apathetic and close their eyes."

Indeed, some people choose to ignore the problem.
Those people are kind of like the "good cops" who don't stop the bad cops from doing bad things.
They end up providing cover for the bad apples, through their indifference.
If nobody tells a dyed in the wool racist that racism is wrong, they're not likely to figure it out on their own.

#61 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 02:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

a true Revolutionary. i wish the Dream would have been fully realized in my lifetime.
we have come a long way and still have far to go. i hope my offspring enjoy a better world full of love and peace.
thank you, Dr. King, for service and sacrifice to humanity and justice.
youtu.be

#62 | Posted by ichiro at 2018-01-15 02:34 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Engaging people like you, with the hopes of educating them.

"The only way to defeat racism is through education and diversification, when people pull together to a common cause differences in skin color and ethnicity tend to disappear among most of the participants."

"Just because White/Black racism is the most prevalent doesn't mean that the others aren't just as destructive and evil."

"Everyone needs to treat everyone else fairly, which was Dr. King's point. That's why it's called "equal justice under the law."

"This is not solely a "white" problem, it is an "us" problem and can only be bridged through education and a commonality of purpose."

"If your approach is education for all, then we agree, as that will also force the majority to be more enlightened about the needs of the minority. It isn't that simple, but the best start imaginable."

I know that reading comprehension is not your strong point, but at least try.

#63 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 02:39 PM | Reply

"This is not solely a "white" problem,"

Whose problem is rape, is it the victim, or the rapist?

Perhaps the problems of the rapist and the problems of the victim shouldn't be spoken of in the same breath.

#64 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 02:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

- Engaging people like you, with the hopes of educating them.

We liberals are ever the optimists, right? And then rwingers point to the lip service they gave to racism on MLK day... while ignoring it in their policies and rhetoric every other day of the year.

#65 | Posted by Corky at 2018-01-15 02:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"If nobody tells a dyed in the wool racist that racism is wrong, they're not likely to figure it out on their own."

you can't sell that. Most whites that aren't "dyed in the wool racist" believe racism is so taboo that they aren't going to work hard enough for you to find racism where they don't see it.

#66 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 02:50 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

-We liberals are ever the optimists, right?

right from one of the white folks in the first group I mentioned. Those that think they are part of the solution....but the opposite it actually true.

#67 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 02:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

#53
it's based in race and propelled by race. as poor whites grow in numbers it spills over onto them -- they then become the poster for "the drug war isn't racist." it is.
and, it's perhaps the most, or right up there, immoral and harming policies of all time -- by the numbers of dead, imprisoned, and destroyed... not to mention cost.
it's probably #1.

i certainly think it is and has been the #1 issue that if addressed would begin to change America for the better, by changing the country's attitude... probably take 50 years. but for one thing: it's still proceeding.

#68 | Posted by ichiro at 2018-01-15 02:52 PM | Reply

well...idk, that really sucked. writing about the drug prohibition in celebration of MLK, in 2018.

#69 | Posted by ichiro at 2018-01-15 02:54 PM | Reply

#66
that's fascinating. i'll have let that sink in awhile. good comment.

#70 | Posted by ichiro at 2018-01-15 02:56 PM | Reply

Whose problem is rape, is it the victim, or the rapist?

Here we go with the deflecting statements framed as questions...try to stay on topic for once.

A better question would be: What about Black on Korean violence, as we saw in the 92 LA riots? Is that a "white" problem?

What about Black on Hispanic violence, as we saw in the Wilmer Amina Carter High School riots in Rialto in 05? Is that a "white" problem?

Racism has been around for millennia, it is a human problem that only education will overcome.

#71 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 03:03 PM | Reply

I have the rather cynical view that tribalism will remain so long as we don't experience some sort of species wide threat.

Until then the best to be hoped for is marginalization of those who are overtly, intentionally racist and as much harmony as can be achieved between the rest.

#72 | Posted by jpw at 2018-01-15 03:07 PM | Reply

#58

I agree 100% that the "war on drugs" has made things worse, not better. Once again, education is the best bet in limiting addiction.

#73 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 03:08 PM | Reply

70

apathetic whites are a problem, and I don't want to make it seem like I'm giving whites a pass for being lazy and turning a blind eye to racism.

I'm just saying it's a hard sell. What's not obvious will be a challenge to get folks to see.

As a manager and leader of predominately white folks my entire professional life, I can tell you this........it is very hard to get white folks to see a problem that isn't easy to see. If it takes an effort to see a problem.....then they'll gladly stay blind.

#74 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 03:10 PM | Reply

"A better question would be:"

Who would ever have guessed, that in your mind, some deflecting statements framed as questions are more equal than others.

The '92 riots aren't racism. They're riots. Not the same thing.

"Is that a "white" problem?"

Is rape a "male" problem?

#75 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 03:12 PM | Reply

#72

I don't see that as cynical, I see that as sadly realistic in the near term. Until there is a threat or other event that will unite us all, petty and ignorant differences will continue to shape how the uneducated or unscrupulous view others. In the meantime, we need to better educate everyone not only to eliminate petty prejudices but to reduce the amount of low or unskilled workers in our country.

#76 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 03:12 PM | Reply

"As a manager and leader of predominately white folks my entire professional life, I can tell you this........it is very hard to get white folks to see a problem that isn't easy to see. If it takes an effort to see a problem.....then they'll gladly stay blind."

Will they do things like bring up Black on Korean violence as a way not to see? ;)

#77 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 03:13 PM | Reply

Mine were not deflecting, Goofy, but exactly on point.

Read the link in #40, the looting and burning of Korean businesses were all about racism, as were the Rialto riots.

#78 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 03:14 PM | Reply

"Until then the best to be hoped for is marginalization of those who are overtly, intentionally racist and as much harmony as can be achieved between the rest."

agreed. it's at least realistic.

#79 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 03:15 PM | Reply

"Mine were not deflecting, Goofy, but exactly on point."

Indeed, you truly believe some deflecting questions are more equal than others.
This is a thing we all know about you, but you may not.

#80 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 03:16 PM | Reply

Will they do things like bring up Black on Korean violence as a way not to see? ;)

"Just because White/Black racism is the most prevalent doesn't mean that the others aren't just as destructive and evil."

How about ignoring other racism because it doesn't fit your narrative... :O

#81 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 03:16 PM | Reply

Snoofy will never be happy with anybody else's acceptance of the existence of racism.

Just his own.

#82 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 03:18 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

#80

LOL, the only time I use so-called "deflecting questions" is to highlight that is the only arrow in your quiver.

And let me know when you have read the LA Times article I linked.

#83 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 03:18 PM | Reply

"the looting and burning of Korean businesses were all about racism"

Whoop tee doo.
Racism is more than one riot that happened once.
It's woven into the fabric of American history from centuries before America was even a country, and for centuries after her birth.

#84 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 03:19 PM | Reply

Here's a little government-sanctioned white on brown violence in honor of MLK Day:

After 30 years in U.S., metro Detroit immigrant deported to Mexico

www.freep.com

#85 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2018-01-15 03:21 PM | Reply

"How about ignoring other racism because it doesn't fit your narrative."

How about ignoring white on black racism because it doesn't fit your narrative.

#86 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 03:22 PM | Reply

#84

Congrats for staying on point, there wasn't one "?" mark in that post.

You are now making the same point that Pinch and I were discussing, but this sentence should read "It's woven into the fabric of World history from centuries before America was even a country..."

#87 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 03:22 PM | Reply

When I was in college I had a single sociology class that I took early on and realized I wasn't going to stand being around the SJW type students that populated the department when I got chided during a discussion for using the term "racism" without an institutional nuance to it. In other words, I was told that racism can only flow from the empowered (whites) to the disenfranchised (minorities).

Is that your beef, snoofy? That racism between minority groups can't exist?

#88 | Posted by jpw at 2018-01-15 03:23 PM | Reply

What about "White/Black racism is the most prevalent" means that I am ignoring it?

(and yes, I used a "?" mark)

#89 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 03:25 PM | Reply

Dr King said the GOP married the Klan in the 60s.
So much for Republicans pretending King was one of them.

#90 | Posted by Tor at 2018-01-15 03:26 PM | Reply

#88

That is exactly the point, JPW, Goofy's SJW ethos won't let him acknowledge that racism isn't only limited to the White Elite.

#91 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 03:27 PM | Reply

"It's woven into the fabric of World history from centuries before America was even a country..."

Sure, but that's beside the point.
It glosses over the fact that other countries didn't codify racism into law like we did.
We almost did better, actually. As a nation of immigrants, we don't have a blood purity law for citizenship; that would have been problematic for the Founders.
But, those same Founders, racist whites, enacted blood purity laws, made slavery a racial thing. They made skin color the gatekeeper for full participation in society, which is arguably worse. Race became a proxy for the ability to accrue generational wealth.

Now, we live in a world where whites are routinely confused why blacks aren't more successful, even as it's patently obvious it's because of centuries of racism.

No amount of blacks being non-racist will make America not racist. It's up to the majority to change, and to impose their will, just like they have done with imposing their racist will for all those centuries.

#92 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 03:33 PM | Reply

"racism isn't only limited to the White Elite."

Power is mostly limited to the white elite, so what they do about racism is going to set the tone for society.

I mean really.

#93 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 03:36 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

And let's not forget that encouraging conflict between disenfranchised groups has long been a trusted tool of those with power. Divide et impera.

#94 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2018-01-15 03:42 PM | Reply

"It's up to the majority to change, and to impose their will"

you've circled back around to the original point I made........and good luck with that.

They don't see the problem they way you want, don't know how to change (or why they should), nor recognize they have to power to do anything about racism.

your job seems to end where you "educate" us folks, snoofy.

is that what you mean by "impose their will"?

#95 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 03:45 PM | Reply

I travel through the south at least once a month and am actually pleased in the direction in what I see. People really want to help each other. I have seen that, for the most part, racism goes hand in hand with education. I live in a court of eight families. White, Black, Asian and mixed. The minority and mixed families are a lawyer, dentist and ex ball player and all could buy and sell me. If I said whites needed to listen more they would pat me on the head and send me along.
Education is the key, and it's before college. My son goes to a very good high school and he says it's full of kids that just don't care. I have a wife and friends in education and they tell many horror stories.

My point to all this is we need to treat teachers like rock stars – at least like celebrity chefs for Christ sake. We only break this pattern if we help the young. I'm fairly conservative and I can see something needs to be done.

#96 | Posted by JimDuncan at 2018-01-15 03:51 PM | Reply

Anyone else find it peculiar that the people who cry about "reverse racism" are also the people who claim that racism doesn't exist?

That's always made me wonder..

#97 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2018-01-15 03:52 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

- Those that think they are part of the solution....but the opposite it actually true.

Compared to the Make America White Again racist nationalists who have their very own President now, people who attempt to educate them AND defeat them at the polls are part of the solution.

Those who obfuscate for them and claim that progressives are part of the problem because they are not perfect are themselves a stumbling block for progress in race relations.

#98 | Posted by Corky at 2018-01-15 03:55 PM | Reply

Things white people think are racist:

1. Direct involvement with Nazis and/or or the KKK.

2. When POC say anything about white people that could be remotely construed as being derogatory or critical

3. Literally nothing else.

#99 | Posted by MrSilenceDogood at 2018-01-15 03:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"people who attempt to educate them....."

yeah, good one. I'll bet you think you're one of "them".

#100 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 03:57 PM | Reply

Anyone else find it peculiar that the people who cry about "reverse racism" are also the people who claim that racism doesn't exist?

No one on this thread has said racism doesn't exist.

#101 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 03:58 PM | Reply

#99

I see your "vacation" did nothing about your retardation. Unfortunate.

#102 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 03:59 PM | Reply

"Your job seems to end where you "educate" us folks, snoofy."

Education isn't key any more?

Eberly, don't tell me you "don't see the problem they way you want, don't know how to change (or why they should), nor recognize they have to power to do anything about racism."

That would make you a(n even bigger) -------!

#103 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 04:00 PM | Reply

97

here comes another douchenozzle who makes unfounded accusations and believes they anything except part of the problem.

Go join corky in the corner........

#104 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 04:00 PM | Reply

"Education isn't key any more?"

I think it is....you're just not an "educator"

"Eberly, don't tell me you..."

Okay. I won't.

#105 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 04:02 PM | Reply

"believes they anything except part of the problem."

Well then. Who isn't part of the problem, Enlightened Eberly?

#106 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 04:03 PM | Reply

"Your job seems to end where you "educate" us folks, snoofy."

And what's your job when it comes to combating racism?

#107 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 04:07 PM | Reply

Dr. King recognized that problem with the SJW's and their belief that they were not a part of the problem even before there was such a term as SJW:

"Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

"Letter from the Birmingham Jail," April 1963

Attempts to "educate" by sternly lecturing others that "It's a white problem" without providing any solution is the very definition of "shallow understanding."

#108 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 04:08 PM | Reply

""It's a white problem" without providing any solution "

I think understanding the issue is the first step toward solving it.
Tell me I'm wrong, if you think I'm wrong.
Then, tell me what's right.

#109 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 04:14 PM | Reply

"And what's your job when it comes to combating racism?"

you're the self-proclaimed educator...why don't you tell me?

...or STFU

#110 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 04:16 PM | Reply

Read the prior posts, Goofy, it has everything you are asking for.

Why don't you enlighten us on how to solve it, since you said you had to "educate" us.

Question marks not allowed.

#111 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 04:18 PM | Reply

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity"
-- Martin Luther King Jr.

#112 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 04:18 PM | Reply

"Lukewarm acceptance" is all much of the rwing can manage. And that's on a good day.

The rest are the racists that elected Trump.

#113 | Posted by Corky at 2018-01-15 04:20 PM | Reply

Lol snoofy claims he understands it but wants to ignore any part of it that's outside the narrative he's chosen to believe. You'd be far better off actually discussing the issue instead of self-righteously and pompously lecturing people.

#114 | Posted by jpw at 2018-01-15 04:23 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Why don't you enlighten us on how to solve it, since you said you had to "educate" us."

I said I was engaging people like you, with hopes of educating them.
But you aren't willing to engage.
That's you doing that, not me.

#115 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 04:24 PM | Reply

#112

He's talking about you and Dorky.

#116 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 04:24 PM | Reply

And here comes corky trying to make this a partisan thread when it's otherwise one of the most non-partisan I've seen here for a long time.

Go ---- where you eat, corky, and leave the rest of alone.

#117 | Posted by jpw at 2018-01-15 04:25 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 5

"He's talking about you and Dorky."

But not you and Eberly?

#118 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 04:26 PM | Reply

I have been engaging, I have about a dozen posts that discuss this very issue without deflecting.

You, not so much.

Give us some substance or stay in your realm of sincere ignorance, your choice.

#119 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 04:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"And here comes corky trying to make this a partisan thread "

Sure, because there's nothing partisan about racist policies.
Remind me, who racially Gerrymandered North Carolina so bad it's illegal?
Bi-partisan effort there?

#120 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 04:27 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

JPW, let Dorky and Goofy "air 69" each other in their conscientious stupidity, Boydirk will come stampeding in on his SJ War Pony to keep them company.

#121 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 04:28 PM | Reply

#120

Like I said, "?" marks not allowed.

#122 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 04:28 PM | Reply

"Just because White/Black racism is the most prevalent doesn't mean that the others aren't just as destructive and evil."

How can it just as destructive and also be far less prevalent?
The only way I can think of is if it's more virulent.
What's your explanation?

#123 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 04:29 PM | Reply

"Like I said, "?" marks not allowed."

I understand you are smart enough to not like the answers to the questions.
You should get out of your comfort zone and answer them anyway.

#124 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 04:30 PM | Reply

The only way I can think of is if it's more virulent.

Every racist act is destructive.

#125 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 04:31 PM | Reply

"Give us some substance"

Answer #123, there will be plenty of substance in your answer.

#126 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 04:32 PM | Reply

Not playing the deflection question game Snoofy, start your own thread.

#127 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 04:32 PM | Reply

"Every racist act is destructive."

You said "just as destructive."
Emphasis "just as."

#128 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 04:32 PM | Reply

Asking you what you meant is not a deflection.

#129 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 04:33 PM | Reply

"Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

"Letter from the Birmingham Jail," April 1963

Attempts to "educate" by sternly lecturing others that "It's a white problem" without providing any solution is the very definition of "shallow understanding."

#108 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

MLK was NOT talking about SJW types circa 1963 -- lol, no offense.

MLK was talking to these types of people ...

MANY AMERICANS HAVE MORE IN COMMON WITH WHITE NATIONALISTS THAN THEY THINK, POLL FINDS
www.newsweek.com

Very few Americans will say outright that they support neo-Nazism, white nationalism or the so-called alt right.

But that doesn't mean they don't express support for some of the same racially-charged ideas and attitudes that such extremists espouse.

A new poll conducted by Reuters and Ipsos with the University of Virginia Center for Politics in the aftermath of the Charlottesville rallies found what it called "troubling racial attitudes."

About 70 percent of respondents strongly agreed that people of different races should be "free to live wherever they choose" and that "all races are equal," and 89 percent agreed that all races should be treated equally.

At the same time, 31 percent of respondents said they strongly or somewhat agreed that the country needs to "protect and preserve its White European heritage," while 34 percent strongly or somewhat disagreed and 29 percent said they neither agreed nor disagreed.

Nearly a third of respondents failed to express support of interracial marriage -- with 16 percent agreeing outright that "marriage should only be allowed between two people of the same race," 14 percent neither agreeing nor disagreeing and four percent saying they didn't know.

The poll also revealed disparities in which groups Americans believe are "under attack."

More than a third -- 39 percent -- of respondents strongly or somewhat agreed with the statement that "white people are currently under attack in this country."


While not all white people are racist, American racism, by virtue who's the majority and who's the minority, is obviously a white people's problem.

I'm white, and this problem will only be fixed if white people get it thru their thick white skulls that they hold the key to putting America's racism in the past once and for all.

#130 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-01-15 04:34 PM | Reply

Every=just as, now tell us how you would fix it.

#131 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 04:34 PM | Reply

There's undoubtedly partisan difference on this issue in the real world.

But thus far this thread hasn't ventured there and devolved into a right vs left but kicking contest. Why turn this thread into that -------- then?

#132 | Posted by jpw at 2018-01-15 04:36 PM | Reply

"Every=just as, now tell us how you would fix it."

No need until you explain how the other varieties of racism are "just as destructive and evil" as the most prevalent white-on-black kind of racism.

#133 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 04:36 PM | Reply

"There's undoubtedly partisan difference on this issue in the real world."

Gee, ya think?

#134 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 04:39 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

I just did, every racist act is destructive and evil, regardless of the racist's skin color.

Now tell us your "brilliant" solution, or as Eberly so gently suggested, STFU and go away.

#135 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 04:40 PM | Reply

Why turn this thread into that -------- then?

Because neither Goofy or Dorky have anything else to offer other than to troll.

#136 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 04:42 PM | Reply

Now tell us your "brilliant" solution, or as Eberly so gently suggested, STFU and go away.

#135 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

You're white ... try talking less and listening more.

#137 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-01-15 04:44 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I said I was engaging people like you, with hopes of educating them."

so...engaging folks. Okay...that's something.

that's it? anything else that you believe makes you so much more special than anybody else?

You realize you've admitted that's all this is about....YOU.

You're better than me. that's it.....and because you chase and troll people on a single anonymous blog every day.

#138 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 04:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

So the average black household is worth $6,800, and
The average white household is worth $100,000, and
RightOCenter thinks the damage and destruction they've suffered due to racism is just the same.

#139 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 04:48 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#134 ---- off. Pompous -------.

#140 | Posted by jpw at 2018-01-15 04:51 PM | Reply

- And here comes corky trying to make this a partisan thread

Sum'bitch musta missed the last election.... where Trump won because of "cultural anxiety" aka racism.

But hey, let's not talk about rwing Republican racism on MLK Day because, as we all know, the partys are the same.

Which is just the kind of obfuscation that keeps racists from being edumacated.

#141 | Posted by Corky at 2018-01-15 04:55 PM | Reply

"That's you doing that, not me."

I'm sure Dr. King is so glad you're around, Snoofy.

No, really...you're exactly who he was thinking about when he thought about how to carry his dream on.

LOL.....

#142 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 04:55 PM | Reply

corky too.....even when it's agreed where white people aren't doing enough and where the tough sell is.....doesn't matter.

That's not enough common ground. No matter what's discussed, agreed, debated...at the end of the conversation, the result HAS to be this.

Corky and Snoofy are not racists and the rest of us are....because they believe they care more than the rest of us.

they aren't helping the cause of racism one single bit, and one can argue they are setting things back with this insistence to race bait folks like the pathetic trolls they are.

#143 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 04:59 PM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

"And here comes corky trying to make this a partisan thread"

His interest in this extremely important issue ends there....where it's about partisanship. Otherwise, he couldn't give 2 -----.

#144 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 05:00 PM | Reply

I'm sure Dr. King is so glad you're around, Snoofy.

No, really...you're exactly who he was thinking about when he thought about how to carry his dream on.

#142 | POSTED BY EBERLY

You're white ... try talking less and listening more.

#145 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-01-15 05:00 PM | Reply

145

more than happy to listen to Dr. King and other leaders on this issue.....but to childish trolls like yourself?

#146 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 05:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

more than happy to listen to Dr. King and other leaders on this issue.....but to childish trolls like yourself?

#146 | POSTED BY EBERLY

We're both white ... we are in the majority and we hold the key to fixing this problem.

And it starts with rejecting white excuse making.

#147 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-01-15 05:08 PM | Reply

And it starts with rejecting white excuse making.

Listening without asking questions isn't helping to solve the problem, it's patronizing those you're listening to.

Which I'm told is a micraggression (is that term still in vogue?) and racist in and of itself.

#148 | Posted by jpw at 2018-01-15 05:13 PM | Reply

#141 it's more complicated than just racism. You're being a fool to state otherwise.

In any case I see your only intention here is to lob partisan bombs so I'll just stop feeding you.

#149 | Posted by jpw at 2018-01-15 05:15 PM | Reply

"And it starts with rejecting white excuse making."

okay. what does that mean, exactly?

give us some concrete examples of it.....

#150 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 05:15 PM | Reply

Listening without asking questions isn't helping to solve the problem, it's patronizing those you're listening to.

Which I'm told is a micraggression (is that term still in vogue?) and racist in and of itself.

#148 | POSTED BY JPW

Effective leaders, in all walks of life, listen WAY more than they talk ... especially when they take on new tasks or new jobs ...

I understand we're all just arguing ... but if we all had a dollar for every time a politician and elected official punted leadership on racism we would all be posting from Beverly Hills zip codes.

We know the problems, but we don't have enough leaders with the guts to make change happen.

#151 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-01-15 05:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"and one can argue they are setting things back with this insistence to race bait folks "

Sow me where I race-baited.

#152 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 05:34 PM | Reply

"Which I'm told is a micraggression (is that term still in vogue?) and racist in and of itself."

^
This seems like a straw man type of comment to me.

#153 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 05:37 PM | Reply

give us some concrete examples of it.....

#150 | POSTED BY EBERLY

First and foremost ... acknowledging the disparities between white and black in ALL aspects of American society -- life expectancy and healthcare, income, jobs and wealth, law enforcement and incarceration, education -- and doing something about them while always pushing back against those who constantly want to divide us.

Thought experiment -- where would we be as a country if Trump said he didn't agree with NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem but recognized their right to protest and free speech, and left it at that?

The key to all of this is white people, who are the majority, opening up their minds and stop buying into the hate that's handed to them on a daily basis by our supposed leaders.

#154 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-01-15 05:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Thought experiment -- where would we be as a country if Trump said he didn't agree with NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem but recognized their right to protest and free speech, and left it at that?"

in the same place.

#155 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 05:57 PM | Reply

154

but I agree with your post. spot on.

#156 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 05:57 PM | Reply

"Most whites that aren't "dyed in the wool racist" believe racism is so taboo that they aren't going to work hard enough for you to find racism where they don't see it.
#66 | POSTED BY EBERLY"

Right, so, how DO you sell that?
It's An Inconvenient Truth for way too many white people.

#157 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 06:01 PM | Reply

"Right, so, how DO you sell that?"

fair question. Worth a debate, IMO.

but one thing is for sure......NOT employ the tactics I've seen on this thread.

#158 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 06:03 PM | Reply

What's wrong with one of my favorite tactics, which is asking people to explain why the median black family net worth is $6,800 compared to $100,000 for whites?

#159 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 06:05 PM | Reply

that's probably the only non reprehensible thing you asked on this thread.

what was wrong with pointing out that most whites don't prefer poor race relations but rather they are blind and apathetic to poor race relations?

#160 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 06:07 PM | Reply

in the same place.

#155 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Over time, those types of positive examples would have ubiquitous effects.

80 years of Jim Crow minus 80 years of white politicians not demogoguing racial situations cleans the slate once and for all.

#161 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-01-15 06:10 PM | Reply

"what was wrong with pointing out that most whites don't prefer poor race relations but rather they are blind and apathetic to poor race relations?"

You mean other than it made some whites uncomfortable?
I've heard that's enough to ----- them. From you.
Get it, ----- them...

#162 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 06:11 PM | Reply

Effective leaders, in all walks of life, listen WAY more than they talk ... especially when they take on new tasks or new jobs ...

They also seek to understand, which inherently means they question.

Often times in these conversations questions are taken as challenges to the veracity of what one is saying, meaning what is expected is unquestioning agreement or else you're a racist.

#163 | Posted by jpw at 2018-01-15 06:17 PM | Reply

This seems like a straw man type of comment to me.

No, I've just read multiple columns/opinion pieces regarding unintentional racism and usually you'll find treating minorities with kid gloves or patronizing them listed as unintentional racism.

So I was seeking clarification from rose who are supposedly the "educators".

#164 | Posted by jpw at 2018-01-15 06:19 PM | Reply

#164 ask them, don't make me be their straw man.

#165 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 06:33 PM | Reply

"You mean other than it made some whites uncomfortable?"

Who?

#166 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 06:33 PM | Reply

161

In the past 17 years, when have we been moving forward on this issue?

Have we moved forward at all?

#167 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 06:38 PM | Reply

"Often times in these conversations questions are taken as challenges to the veracity of what one is saying"

That's not an uncommon use of the interrogative form.
But questions are also asked when digging for the truth.

"I am sure that each of you would want to go beyond the superficial social analyst who looks merely at effects, and does not grapple with underlying causes."
--Martin Luther King Jr, Letter From a Birmingham Jail

#168 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 06:41 PM | Reply

"In the past 17 years, when have we been moving forward on this issue?"

Economically? Perhaps it was going better from 2000 to the Great Recession, but it certainly got worse after.

War on Drugs got a bit better through Obama's (ab- if you're JeffJ)use of Executive power, though Trump seems like he wants to undo it.

In terms of social acceptance? I'd say most ZIP codes have progressed, but a few that were doing bad are probably worse now, sort of a backlash to Obama which is easily lumped in with the liberalism they hate anyway.

I'd say we're doing much better on the issue of "Racist Civil War Statues" though. Baby steps.

#169 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 06:45 PM | Reply

"Most whites that aren't "dyed in the wool racist" believe racism is so taboo"

I'm really curious to meet these whites though.
I'd ask the ones our age if the Willie Horton ad was intended to play into to racial prejudices.

#170 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 07:05 PM | Reply

Now tell us your "brilliant" solution, or as Eberly so gently suggested, STFU and go away.

#135 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

You're white ... try talking less and listening more.

#137 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF AT 2018-01-15 04:44 PM

You liked that retort you used it twice, with minimal effect.

If you had comprehended my request, you would have understood that I was asking for Goofy to tell me his solution, which implies listening. Unfortunately, Goofy thinks he is "digging for the truth" rather than productively contributing his solutions.

When trolls like Goofy and Dorky are constantly shouting, listening is difficult.

#171 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 08:02 PM | Reply

You liked that retort you used it twice, with minimal effect.

#171 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

"Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen."

-- Winston Churchill

#172 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-01-15 08:12 PM | Reply

"I'm really curious to meet these whites though."

Pretending you don't know any.

You're really on today, snoof.

#173 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 08:18 PM | Reply

"I'd ask the ones our age if the Willie Horton ad was intended to play into to racial prejudices."

It was intended to scare folks away from voting for a white guy named Dukakis. If Willie had been white, are you suggesting the ad would have been less successful?

#174 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 08:21 PM | Reply

Why is it so hard for some people to understand: Racism = Oppression. Racism - Oppression = Prejudice. Prejudice =/= Racism.

Blacks in America may be prejudiced against white people, some even hate white people. That's not racism. Some might even see it as justified based on history and personal experience. But blacks do not, and never have, oppressed white people. They can't. They don't have, and have never had, the power to do so. Likewise with Koreans. Blacks in some areas see Koreans as "invaders" who came into their communities and took over/created all the "convenience stores" which are the primary source of food and household goods, and who have a history of viewing the members of the local community as inferior to them and treating them as such, perhaps overcharging, perhaps other negative treatment. That's racism. People who have to depend on those stores resent that. A few may actually get violent about it. That's not racism, it's resentment. That's prejudice.

It's not anything black people can change. Blacks have gone out of their way since the end of slavery to try to make themselves "acceptable" to white people; to be treated equally under the law (like it says in the 14th Amendment). It never mattered, and it still doesn't. I recall hearing a joke told by a black comedian in the 60's:

White Man #1: What do you call a black boy hanging out on the corner?
White Man #2: N-----
White Man #1: What do you call a black college professor with a Dr's degree?
White Man #2: N-----

Black people don't care if white people like them. They just want to be treated equally under the law, with all that implies for housing, education, employment, criminal justice, and political representation (voting). Just like white people.

#175 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2018-01-15 08:28 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

If Willie had been white, are you suggesting the ad would have been less successful?

#174 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Yes. Absolutely.

#176 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2018-01-15 08:30 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Fair enough.

#177 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 08:32 PM | Reply

"Pretending you don't know any."

The only whites I encounter who don't immediately grasp
the Willie Horton ad embodies the Southern Strategy or
the War on Drugs is racist or
All Lives Matter is a racist retort to Black Lives Matter
are the white men on the DR.

I may know some people like that but I don't apply a political litmus test to everyone I meet. Partially because if they are that blind to racism, it's probably not worth talking about.

A place like the DR is where it's worth talking about it.

#178 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 08:46 PM | Reply

Black people don't care if white people like them. They just want to be treated equally under the law, with all that implies for housing, education, employment, criminal justice, and political representation (voting). Just like white people.

#175 | POSTED BY WHODAMAN

Very well said.

#179 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-01-15 08:46 PM | Reply

"Unfortunately, Goofy thinks he is "digging for the truth" rather than productively contributing his solution"

The "solution" I'm seeking is clarity on how other types of racism are just as bad as white against black.

By answering that question, you will have advanced the dialogue and your narrative.

Just so were clear, I'm asking you to explain to me something I don't agree with, but it's possible I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. But I doubt it.

"Goofy."

You're clearly not prepared to discuss this like an adult, WhiteNFragile.

#180 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 08:53 PM | Reply

#172

You are still missing my point Pinch, I am asking for Goofy to tell me his solution, which entails listening. Your inability to grasp what I am saying means that you are merely repeating yourself, and not listening.

#181 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 08:55 PM | Reply

By answering that question

I have answered it twice.

Your turn, if you have some substance to add.

#182 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 08:56 PM | Reply

Just so were clear, I'm asking you to explain to me something I don't agree with,

You don't agree that all racism is evil and destructive?

Got it.

#183 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 08:57 PM | Reply

Snoofy, You don't live anywhere, rather you just live on the Internet obviously

You don't know any actual real people

#184 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 08:58 PM | Reply

"Ok, give us your solution."

Engaging people like you, with the hopes of educating them."

Was an exchange I had upthread.

Then, the person I engage with... says I'm not contributing my solution.

When I'm literally doing the thing I said I was gonna go.

#185 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 08:58 PM | Reply

I am still waiting for you to supposedly "educate" me. That would necessarily involve more than posing deflecting questions and non-sequiturs.

You got nothing other than SJW platitudes, I get it.

#186 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 09:05 PM | Reply

You are still missing my point Pinch, I am asking for Goofy to tell me his solution, which entails listening. Your inability to grasp what I am saying means that you are merely repeating yourself, and not listening.

#181 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

Since you and Snoofy can't agree on anything ...

Go to post #175 and let WhoDaMan explain it to you.

And for the record, Snoofy is saying the same thing, you're just being stubborn because he's the messenger.

#187 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-01-15 09:38 PM | Reply

- partisanship.

When one party has had better policies and candidates at the national level than the other for at lerast the last 60 years, cries of "Partisan!" are ludicrous.

"Goofy" "Dorky"... there are door knobs with more creativity than this clown.

People who want to play Neville Chamberlain to Trump and his to racists as if they, too, suffer the "same" kind of prejudice and shouldn't be called out for their bias can kiss my shiny white ass.

#188 | Posted by Corky at 2018-01-15 09:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#188

Translation: "I still got nothing."

#189 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 09:53 PM | Reply

"Engaging people like you, with the hopes of educating them."

IOW, cry and hurl insults on an anonymous blog.

With friends like you, the minority community does need anymore enemies.

#190 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 09:56 PM | Reply

188

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

poor bastard.

#191 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 09:57 PM | Reply

When all you got race baiting.....go for it.

And BTW, it was mentioned upthread about what MLK would think about NFL players kneeling......he would love it.

And I supported it 100%.

Enough with this flame war.

#192 | Posted by eberly at 2018-01-15 10:01 PM | Reply

The only way to defeat racism is through education and diversification
--RightOCenter

I am still waiting for you to supposedly "educate" me.
--Also RightOCenter

:)

#193 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-15 10:10 PM | Reply

#183

And you have provided zero education, but plenty of SJW nonsense.

What is your solution, educate me...if you can.

#194 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 10:28 PM | Reply

And BTW, it was mentioned upthread about what MLK would think about NFL players kneeling......he would love it.

And I supported it 100%.

#192 | POSTED BY EBERLY

We agree!

#195 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2018-01-15 10:45 PM | Reply

"#183 And you have provided zero education, but plenty of SJW nonsense." - #194 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 10:28 PM

#183 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-15 08:57 PM
#183 is your own comment.

You seem to have a problem with your own comment.

#196 | Posted by Hans at 2018-01-15 10:47 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

When one party has had better policies and candidates at the national level than the other for at lerast the last 60 years, cries of "Partisan!" are ludicrous.

Not at all.

You just have one trick, you old pony you.

#197 | Posted by jpw at 2018-01-15 11:05 PM | Reply

#197

Has no trick and no argument.... obviously.

#198 | Posted by Corky at 2018-01-15 11:38 PM | Reply

Has no trick and no argument.... obviously.

#198 | POSTED BY CORKY

Sorry, you don't have one trick.

You have your first trick.

Then you have the faux condescension when people don't take your bait.

#199 | Posted by jpw at 2018-01-15 11:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"And you have provided zero education, but plenty of SJW nonsense."

Answer the question I have asked, then.

#200 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-16 01:41 AM | Reply

You got nothing other than SJW platitudes, I get it.

#186 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER AT 2018-01-15 09:05 PM

What is your problem with social justice?

You prefer social injustice?

fighting injustice is always a good thing.

At least SJWs are trying to make things better. They do not deserve your callous derision

#201 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-01-16 09:55 AM | Reply | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 4

"And you have provided zero education, but plenty of SJW nonsense."

Talking point nonsense. Meaningless. Straight from Faux News to DR without thought. I'm pretty sure bots can already make your arguments faster and better than you can.

#202 | Posted by danni at 2018-01-16 10:40 AM | Reply

#199

Still no argument. Still so obvious.

#203 | Posted by Corky at 2018-01-16 11:39 AM | Reply

I am still waiting for you to supposedly "educate" me. That would necessarily involve more than posing deflecting questions and non-sequiturs.
You got nothing other than SJW platitudes, I get it.

#186 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER AT 2018-01-15 09:05 PM | REPLY |

You can lead a man to knowledge but you can't make him think. It's up to you whether you learn what you are taught

#204 | Posted by hatter5183 at 2018-01-16 12:16 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Talking point nonsense. Meaningless.

You can lead a man to knowledge but you can't make him think. It's up to you whether you learn what you are taught

Typical that Dummi and Hater dive bomb the thread without making any substantive addition, they belong with the other Mental Dwarves of the DR, Dorky, Dirky and Goofy.

Since you are seemingly incapable of scrolling up to actually read the thread, here is what I said about what needs to be done:

"The only way to defeat racism is through education and diversification, when people pull together to a common cause differences in skin color and ethnicity tend to disappear among most of the participants."

"Just because White/Black racism is the most prevalent doesn't mean that the others aren't just as destructive and evil."

"Everyone needs to treat everyone else fairly, which was Dr. King's point. That's why it's called "equal justice under the law."

"This is not solely a "white" problem, it is an "us" problem and can only be bridged through education and a commonality of purpose."

"If your approach is education for all, then we agree, as that will also force the majority to be more enlightened about the needs of the minority. It isn't that simple, but the best start imaginable."

I'm guessing that like the other Dwarves you have nothing to add.

#205 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2018-01-16 12:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#205

Dotard repeats one day a year lip service ad infinitum.

#206 | Posted by Corky at 2018-01-16 01:10 PM | Reply

I had a dream, too.

That America would wake up from this insanity and get back to work making us a more Perfect Union and be a shining beacon to the rest of the world.

Then I woke up and had to go to work.

#207 | Posted by donnerboy at 2018-01-16 01:39 PM | Reply

"I have a dream to play golf."
-Donald Trump

#208 | Posted by Sycophant at 2018-01-16 04:27 PM | Reply

"Just because White/Black racism is the most prevalent doesn't mean that the others aren't just as destructive and evil."

Doesn't mean they aren't just as oppressive.
Doesn't mean they are just as oppressive.
Doesn't mean a damn thing.

#209 | Posted by snoofy at 2018-01-16 09:34 PM | Reply

"A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death" MLK

meanwhile -------- like Trump and Scott are engaged in class warfare while threatening nuclear war.
'

#210 | Posted by bayviking at 2018-01-17 06:26 AM | Reply

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