Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, December 06, 2017

In the coming weeks, the primary goal of House and Senate Republicans is to pass a piece of legislation that experts say may do more for the wealthy -- and less for the middle class -- than any tax bill in modern history. Their secondary objective, as articulated by one of Donald Trump's campaign advisers, is to screw over Democrats.

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Conservative economist Stephen Moore told Bloomberg, "They go after state and local taxes, which weakens public employee unions. They go after university endowments, and universities have become play pens of the left. And getting rid of the mandate is to eventually dismantle Obamacare," Moore said, explaining excitedly that scrapping the requirement that most people obtain coverage will hasten a "death spiral" in the Affordable Care Act's marketplaces.

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I saw many a column saying exactly this.

It's not surprising that the party of Trump is a party so embittered by it's own pathetic existence that it feels screwing over the other side is a reasonable governing strategy.

#1 | Posted by jpw at 2017-12-06 11:13 PM | Reply

This is the sort of thing Congress could hold hearings about if they chose to...

#2 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-06 11:16 PM | Reply

"They go after state and local taxes, which weakens public employee unions. They go after university endowments"

Going after state and local taxes weakens red states.

University endowments seemingly benefit fund managers and Wall Street....not middle class or minorities.

IOW, this harms the GOP voters more than anybody.

#3 | Posted by eberly at 2017-12-06 11:19 PM | Reply

University endowments fund. among other things, scholarships, don't they?
So that's a blow at the poor, and the middle class too.
Hedge Fund managers will not be hurting for money, as it will be coming from elsewhere in the tax code.
I couldn't say about sales taxes, other than I suspect they're generally higher in blue states.
Mortgages are higher in the more highly populated parts of any states, the largest of which are at least blue cities, if not in blue states.

#4 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-06 11:24 PM | Reply

"University endowments fund. among other things, scholarships, don't they?"

I suppose but I still don't see how Democrats are screwed significantly worse by this

#5 | Posted by eberly at 2017-12-06 11:27 PM | Reply

"Going after state and local taxes weakens red states."

You've got your math wrong somewhere. It hurts blue states much worse.

#6 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-06 11:32 PM | Reply

He said it weakens red states, which it does.

He just didn't quite bother filling out the rest of the form, where it says how it weakens blue states more.

He's an optimist, is why!

#7 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-06 11:33 PM | Reply

Nine of the 10 most expensive real estate markets are in blue states. Dallas is the one exception.

#8 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-06 11:33 PM | Reply

How?

#9 | Posted by eberly at 2017-12-06 11:34 PM | Reply

"I suppose but I still don't see how Democrats are screwed significantly worse by this"

The more education a person has, the more likely they are to vote Democrat.

#10 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-06 11:36 PM | Reply

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"University endowments seemingly benefit fund managers and Wall Street....not middle class or minorities."

While invested. But ultimately the endowments benefit the lower and middle class more than the upper class, by sheer numbers.

#11 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-06 11:38 PM | Reply

I'm sure it hurts Republicans in a lot of ways though.

Perhaps if it weren't a Republican piece of legislations, the Republicans would mention some of those things.

I guess I shouldn't complain too much if they choose to suffer in silence. I hear there's dignity in that.

#12 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-06 11:39 PM | Reply

I see the author's point.

#13 | Posted by eberly at 2017-12-06 11:42 PM | Reply

Eb, if you read the article, Moore describes the results in detail, including how it specifically screws Dem strongholds.

#14 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-06 11:42 PM | Reply

Eberly aren't state sales and local taxes higher in blue states, overall?
Also I seem to recall something about deducting state sales tax, but I don't know if that's on the chopping block... higher in blue states, generally, right?

#15 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-06 11:42 PM | Reply

Eberly I'm genuinely curious how all this creatively destructive tax policy is impacting your business area.

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-06 11:46 PM | Reply


Well... duh..

In the current tribal political environment, why is this a surprise?

The problem we need to solve is not tax-related.

The problem we need to solve is how to get the focus of political discussion back upon what is good for our country, not what is good for the tribe.

#17 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-12-07 12:02 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

This behavior is outrageous, just like Republican efforts to suppress voters by class and race, targeting poor black districts.

These problems will persist as long as gerrymandering is the law of the land.

"universities have become play pens of the left."

The smartest, best educated people, dominate professorships in our Universities (economics is a notable exception) because Liberalism is fact based and includes constitutional moral considerations which Conservatives ignore for purely selfish reasons.

#18 | Posted by bayviking at 2017-12-07 07:35 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Why?

#19 | Posted by fresno500 at 2017-12-07 08:34 AM | Reply

"Why?"

Revenge. To attack the heart of Dems and Dem causes.

Because that's what the US tax code should be about, right?

Which reminds me...where are the folks who were upset by Lois Lerner?

#20 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-07 08:39 AM | Reply

"Eberly aren't state sales and local taxes higher in blue states, overall?"

I don't know. In my extremely red state, we're pretty high sales and property taxes.

"Eberly I'm genuinely curious how all this creatively destructive tax policy is impacting your business area."

It's a bill, so it's not destroying anything right now.

but if it's law....I don't think it will impact much either way.

The new plan caps property tax, state income tax deduction at $10K and I pay considerably more than that now.

In the end, I don't think it will change much overall for our business.

#21 | Posted by eberly at 2017-12-07 09:36 AM | Reply

"The smartest, best educated people, dominate professorships in our Universities (economics is a notable exception) because Liberalism is fact based and includes constitutional moral considerations which Conservatives ignore for purely selfish reasons."

I agree that economics is a notable exception but we should include why.....billionaires funding Economics Departments with the catch that they get to approve of all professor hiring and curriculum too so that they can be assured that Libertarian (Ayn Rand b***S**t) economic principles are taught.

#22 | Posted by danni at 2017-12-07 09:50 AM | Reply

How does a tax cut screw dems?

#23 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-12-07 11:32 AM | Reply

"How does a tax cut screw dems?"

Math.

#24 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-07 11:33 AM | Reply

Kinda wondering how this isn't malfeasance. I mean, the legally actionable kind.

#25 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-07 12:34 PM | Reply

First time I read it, my exact words were "this is surgical".

#26 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-07 12:38 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Kinda wondering how this isn't malfeasance. I mean, the legally actionable kind."

Especially for Republicans in NY, NJ, CA, etc. Collateral damage, I guess.

#27 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-07 12:40 PM | Reply

First time I read it, my exact words were "this is surgical".
#26 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-07 12:38 PM

Yes, it is interesting how their majority ALEC legislation is cut/paste, then there are these margin-scribbles which more precisely describe their longer-term repercussions. It's as if Skynet and Master Control Program had a sinister baby AI using Republicans to re-configure wealth distribution from a far-off future goalpost.

Is this paving a voucher systems? They keep advocating them for everything, I must presume there is a wealth-scam at their heart. One that specifically deprives the non-middle class majority. Wyden worked with Ryan on an "education" one - I never understood how it was helpful to deprive majority-access institutions even further.. Now they won't have to. With scholarships eliminated schools will only admit those empowered with wealth.

#28 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2017-12-07 08:43 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"How does a tax cut screw dems?"

Math.

#24 | Posted by Danforth

I guess that is the new modern math they are teaching is school now. 2+2=5 when you want it to. But then again, it could =7.

#29 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-12-08 04:50 PM | Reply

Especially for Republicans in NY, NJ, CA, etc. Collateral damage, I guess.

#27 | Posted by Danforth

and why should they get a federal tax break I don't get?

#30 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-12-08 04:51 PM | Reply

It's ridiculous that a person earning $500k per year in Texas pays more in federal income taxes than a person earning $500k per year in California assuming all other deductions between the 2 are equal. Non-income tax states subsidize the federal income taxes in states with high state income taxes. The gravy train rolling away is why Cuomo and Jerry Brown are freaking out so badly over this.

#31 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-12-08 05:59 PM | Reply

"Non-income tax states"

Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington and Wyoming.

"It's ridiculous that a person earning $500k per year in Texas pays more in federal income taxes than a person earning $500k per year in California assuming all other deductions between the 2 are equal."

Might as well say it's ridiculous the Californian pays more state income tax than the Texan.

#32 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-08 06:16 PM | Reply

#32

Not at all. If someone lives in Cali and doesn't want to pay state income taxes any more they can move. Their federal income taxes shouldn't go up as a result. California residents should pay their fair share and I'm talking about an individual basis, not the aggregate.

#33 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-12-08 06:31 PM | Reply

Likewise, if someone in Texas wants to pay less Federal income tax they too can move to California.

So how is that any different?

You are making an argument which only works if you don't believe money is fungible. But money is fungible.

#34 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-08 06:37 PM | Reply

"California residents should pay their fair share"

They paid the same share as a Texan.
It just went to two parties; mostly to the Feds but some to California.
Texas chooses not to avail themselves of that revenue stream, so it all goes to the Feds.

#35 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-08 06:48 PM | Reply

" If someone lives in Cali and doesn't want to pay state income taxes any more they can move." - #33 | Posted by JeffJ at 2017-12-08 06:31 PM

That's simplistic and ridiculous.

Most people build families, homes and careers where they live. They have ties to their community through the schools where their children learn, the churches where they worship, the civic groups to which they belong, the charities to which they volunteer, and relationships with professionals and tradesmen they do business with.

Few people, outside of well-off retirees, have the luxury of just quitting all they've built to move somewhere else as you so cavalierly suggest, JeffJ.

#36 | Posted by Hans at 2017-12-08 07:10 PM | Reply

"Most people build families, homes and careers where they live."

Including the guy who made that comment.

JeffJ is telling us he likes paying 4.25% income tax; that why he lives in Michigan.

He wouldn't want to pay zero, that's why he hasn't moved to Texas.

Heck he won't even move to the neighboring state of Indiana to shave nearly a full percent off his taxes.

He wants to pay 4.25% is the only explanation!

#37 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-08 07:42 PM | Reply

There are other ways to milk your income besides a State Income Tax:

www.bankrate.com

The most regressive state tax systems in the US:
(Taxes as a percentage of income on the poorest to the wealthiest)

Rank State Poorest 20%, Middle 60%, Top 1%
1 Washington* 16.9 10.5 2.8
2 Florida* 13.2 8.3 2.3
3 South Dakota* 11.6 8.2 2.1
4 Illinois 13.8 11.1 4.9
5 Texas* 12.6 8.8 3.2
6 Tennessee** 11.2 8.6 2.8
7 Arizona 12.9 9.7 4.7
8 Pennsylvania 12.0 9.8 4.4
9 Indiana 12.3 10.7 5.4
10 Alabama 10.2 9.4 3.8

*Does not levy a personal income tax.
**Income tax only for interest and dividend income.

Source: Institute on Taxation & Economic Policy

#38 | Posted by madscientist at 2017-12-08 07:54 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"It's ridiculous that a person earning $500k per year in Texas pays more in federal income taxes"

Drop the word "Federal" and tell me if you still agree.

This gets to money being fungible. As well as the reason for the deduction in the first place.

#39 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-08 08:55 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"I guess that is the new modern math they are teaching is school now. 2+2=5 "

No, it's regular math. The only place where 2+2 = 5 is Republican Math.

And regular math shows us, quite clearly, this tax bill is another massive transfer of wealth from blue states to red states, as if already subsidizing the red states wasn't enough:
www.theatlantic.com

New Jersey not only gets the lowest return for its federal dollar of all 50 states...
www.politifact.com

...it'll be one of the worst hit in the new tax bill.
www.nj.com

#40 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-09 09:28 AM | Reply

Might as well say it's ridiculous the Californian pays more state income tax than the Texan.

#32 | Posted by snoofy

Try again goofy, I don't live in Cal. They pay the taxes set by the libs they voted into office. Seems to me that if you elect morons that write high taxes for you, you ain't very bright.

#41 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-12-09 10:25 AM | Reply

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