Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, December 07, 2017

President Trump told Israeli and Arab leaders on Tuesday that he plans to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, a symbolically fraught move that would upend decades of American policy and upset efforts to broker peace between Israel and the Palestinians. Trump is expected to announce his decision on Wednesday, two days after the expiration of a deadline for him to decide whether to keep the American Embassy in Tel Aviv. Palestinian officials said Mr. Trump told the president of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, that the United States would move the embassy to Jerusalem. Jordan said the president gave a similar message to King Abdullah II.

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Still, Trump's decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital -- and to set in motion an embassy move -- is his riskiest foray yet into the thicket of Middle East diplomacy. Arab and European leaders warn that it could derail any peace initiative and even ignite fresh violence in the region.

King Abdullah II strongly cautioned against the move, "stressing that Jerusalem is the key to achieving peace and stability in the region and the world," according to a statement from the royal palace in Amman.

"King Abdullah stressed that the adoption of this resolution will have serious implications for security and stability in the Middle East, and will undermine the efforts of the American administration to resume the peace process and fuel the feelings of Muslims and Christians," the statement said.

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Step One in the August 2019 "product roll-out" to make Trump a War President for the re-election.

#1 | Posted by Corky at 2017-12-05 03:24 PM | Reply

A bully nation with a bully president.

The world is screwed.

#2 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-12-05 03:30 PM | Reply

So is this what triggers the last great war?

#3 | Posted by Daniel at 2017-12-05 03:35 PM | Reply

No. The US is screwed. The world will get along fine excluding us.

#4 | Posted by 726 at 2017-12-05 03:35 PM | Reply

The world will get along fine excluding us.

You ever tried to ignore a brat? All you end up with a temper tantrum and kicked over party decorations.

Trump will not be ignored.

#5 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-12-05 03:37 PM | Reply

is this what triggers the last great war?

The last Great War has been in progress since September 9th, 2001.

#6 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-12-05 03:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1


Trump Plans Waiver on Moving U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem
www.bloomberg.com

...President Donald Trump will sign a waiver delaying the move of the U.S. embassy in Israel to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv while declaring the contested city the capital of Israel, according to a person familiar with the decision.

Reports that Trump would unilaterally declare Jerusalem to be the capital and begin moving the embassy there fueled warnings from Middle East and European leaders saying it would undermine peace efforts and potentially generate protests across the region. The president is "pretty solid in his thinking" on the issue, White House spokeswoman Sarah Sanders said, and will make an announcement Wednesday.

The president's decision to sign the waiver would be in keeping with moves by his predecessors going back 20 years under a federal law that declares an undivided Jerusalem to be the Israeli capital.

Trump called Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and Jordan's King Abdullah on Tuesday to tell them of his decision. Both governments said Trump told their leaders that he intends to move the embassy, though no timelines were provided. The White House announced the calls, but spokespeople for Trump did not immediately confirm the Palestinian and Jordanian accounts....


#7 | Posted by LampLighter at 2017-12-05 03:57 PM | Reply

So is this what triggers the last great war?

#3 | POSTED BY DANIEL

Unlikely.

A ton of terrorist attacks? Much more likely.

#8 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-12-05 04:00 PM | Reply

"So is this what triggers the last great war?"

Let's face it, if Trump starts WWIII Conservative Christians can openly love him again.

He's bringing about the End Days and death cult Conservative Christians can't wait!

#9 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-05 04:31 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

This is just The Donald's new strategy to solve the middle east "problem" by making everyone pissed at us instead of each other.

Brilliant don't you think?

#10 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-12-05 04:42 PM | Reply

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His bull in a china shop routine is going to cost us.

#11 | Posted by fresno500 at 2017-12-05 07:08 PM | Reply

#8 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

See Clownshack's #6.

#12 | Posted by IndianaJones at 2017-12-05 07:37 PM | Reply

The way I see this is:

The world wants a permanent divided Jerusalem. This seems logical to liberals. The Muslims are only willing to entertain this because they are not in control of Israel. To Muslims, this is a temporary solution until they are strong enough to re-invade and take back the Christian and Jewish holy lands. This has been happening for centuries. It's not going to change. The Jews knwo this. Muslims do not want to live with anyone else except Muslims. Everyone else who is being persecuted by Muslims understands this. For some reason, the U.N. and liberals do not.

#13 | Posted by boaz at 2017-12-06 08:13 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

I think that most of can agree than the blood of anyone killed after Trump's decision on Jerusalem, Jew or Arab---That's on his hands.

#14 | Posted by Zed at 2017-12-06 09:18 AM | Reply

I think that most of can agree than the blood of anyone killed HERE after Trump's decision on Jerusalem, Republican or Democrat---That's on his hands.

#14 | Posted by Zed at 2017

#15 | Posted by Zed at 2017-12-06 09:20 AM | Reply

This is just The Donald's new strategy to solve the middle east "problem" by making everyone pissed at us instead of each other.

Brilliant don't you think?

#10 | Posted by donnerboy

Trump's masterstroke is a preliminary to Jared's equally genius diplomatic moves, no doubt coming soon.

#16 | Posted by Zed at 2017-12-06 09:23 AM | Reply

I think that most of can agree than the blood of anyone killed HERE after Trump's decision on Jerusalem, Republican or Democrat---That's on his hands.

Um, no, it's on whoever spills the blood.

You cant say in one breath violence solves no problems and then blame it on someone who doesn't do the violence.

#17 | Posted by boaz at 2017-12-06 09:38 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Um, no, it's on whoever spills the blood.

#17 | Posted by boaz at 2017

BOAZ, of course it's on the hands of those who do the violence. It's also on the hands of anyone stupid and unfeeling enough to set people up to spill that blood.

You've got to hold Donald accountable for the proximate results of his actions. Whether such actions originate from simple stupidity or, as I sincerely believe, Donald's need to preen his own ego even on the bones of others.

#18 | Posted by Zed at 2017-12-06 09:59 AM | Reply

It's also on the hands of anyone stupid and unfeeling enough to set people up to spill that blood.

So when an Islamic terrorist kills, is that on Islam?

#19 | Posted by boaz at 2017-12-06 11:03 AM | Reply

Step One in the August 2019 "product roll-out" to make Trump a War President for the re-election.

#1 | Posted by Corky

Moving the US Embassy to Jerusalem has been in the dem platform for the last 15 years.

#20 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-12-06 12:37 PM | Reply

This is just The Donald's new strategy to solve the middle east "problem" by making everyone pissed at us instead of each other.

Brilliant don't you think?

#10 | Posted by donnerboy

Read post 20.

#21 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-12-06 12:38 PM | Reply

So when an Islamic terrorist kills, is that on Islam?

#19 | Posted by boaz

Of course it is

The libs on this blog.

#22 | Posted by Sniper at 2017-12-06 12:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

The Senate voted 90-0 on a resolution marking the 50th anniversary of Jerusalem's reunification. The measure includes language that "calls upon the president and all United States officials to abide by" a 1995 law that urged then-President Bill Clinton to move the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem.

So now, when the President abides by the recommendations of The Senate, he's still doing the wrong things. Trump Derangement Syndrome knows no bounds, it seems.

#23 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-12-06 12:42 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Trump Derangement Syndrome..." - #23 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-12-06 12:42 PM

There is no such thing.

#24 | Posted by Hans at 2017-12-06 12:46 PM | Reply

You cant say in one breath violence solves no problems and then blame it on someone who doesn't do the violence.

#17 | Posted by boaz

So if you were to take a baseball bat and whack a beehive full of killer bees you would then proceed to blame the bees if they stung you or someone else to death?

Brilliant!

#25 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-12-06 03:53 PM | Reply

So now, when the President abides by the recommendations of The Senate, he's still doing the wrong things.

#23 | Posted by Avigdore

Gee, I wish we did have a president.

#26 | Posted by Zed at 2017-12-06 04:03 PM | Reply

There's just so many troll tangents to wander off on here...

The Neo Nazis are going to be mad.

Who gets the best $ to end effect on US politics, Israel or Russia?

Islamic terrorism is statistically irrelevant.

Do we really care if Islamic theocracies buy less US weapons?

What's the over-under on when the next US consul in Jerusalem is killed?

#27 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-12-06 05:05 PM | Reply

Why is it anyone's business but ours?
It is our embassy, right? Our belief that Jerusalem is the capital, right?

Arabs react like violent babies when they don't get what they want. News at 11.

All that being said, it wasn't actually necessary to change anything.

Let everyone else place their embassies where they want and let them recognize any city they want as the capital of any country they want. It wouldn't be our business to tell them otherwise just like it's none of their business what we do or what we believe.
If they want violence we are plenty capable of giving it when and where we want

#28 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2017-12-06 05:13 PM | Reply

The proposed new embassy site isn't big enough for the proposed new embassy. So we will be buying more.

This is a money laundering scheme conveyed through a real estate deal, which is Trump's M.O. It also happens to be wrapped in a convenient political agenda.

#29 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-06 05:15 PM | Reply

"Trump Derangement Syndrome..." - #23 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-12-06 12:42 PM

There is no such thing.

#24 | POSTED BY HANS AT 2017-12-06 12:46 PM

Better clue Newsweek in then...

HOW LIBERALS CAN RECOVER FROM TRUMP DERANGEMENT SYNDROME

#30 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2017-12-06 05:22 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

If they want violence we are plenty capable of giving it when and where we want.

We are also capable of losing American soldiers who get a target painted on their backs by endless Middle East ----------. Look at the 1983 barracks bombing in Lebanon.

Maybe it isn't the greatest idea for Trump to stir ---- up for no good reason. Our soldiers could end up paying the price. The embassy was fine where it was.

#31 | Posted by rcade at 2017-12-06 07:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Maybe it isn't the greatest idea for Trump to stir ---- up for no good reason.

He's got a great reason. He's trying to stir ---- up in the Middle East.

If he can piss off Iran, enough to do anything, he's got his war.

Based on history. Iran seems to support Palestine. So. How better to get a reaction from Iran than to mess with Palestine.

Trump is a buffoon. But he may also be aware of the consequences of his actions.

#32 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-12-06 07:36 PM | Reply

How is it our decision as to where the capital of Israel is?

Can we do this with any other nation?

Can we recognize Nice as the capital of France? Hong Kong as the capital of China? Cancún as the capital of Mexico?

#33 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-12-06 07:46 PM | Reply

We could say Mars is the capital of Ohio....How in the hell does that change a thing for anyone, anywhere?

I don't think some of you even know why you're upset.

#34 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2017-12-06 08:10 PM | Reply

Waves wand...Trump says Nice is the capital of France.
Now what? What changed? Are The French going to blow themselves and civilians up in protest?

#35 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2017-12-06 08:11 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Thus sayeth Google and Wikipedia.

#36 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-12-06 08:13 PM | Reply

and Israel too for that matter. They declared it their capital. Embassies are all built in Tel Aviv because that's where they declared the country of Isreal.

#37 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-12-06 08:15 PM | Reply

Have you noticed, to a man, the people who say it's a huge disgrace to history to move a Confederate statue also say it's utterly inconsequential to move a United States embassy?

#38 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-06 08:19 PM | Reply

We could say Mars is the capital of Ohio....How in the hell does that change a thing for anyone, anywhere?

This is stupid. You know why Jerusalem being called the capital of Israel is an enormous ------- issue.

#39 | Posted by rcade at 2017-12-06 08:39 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Here's a hint for the terminally obtuse: this move will make it that much harder for the US to facilitate any sort of peace process because it seriously calls into question the country's ability to deal with Palestine in good faith.

#40 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-12-06 08:45 PM | Reply

It's an enormous issue because violent arabs will throw a tantrum if "we" say where the capital of Israel really is, so let's treat them like children, right?

If I ask where you live, and you tell me Florida, but I insist it's Ohio, who is right? Me, because I'll threaten violence, or you, because you own the house, maintain it, pay the taxes, etc?

If the USA recognizes Jerusalem as the capital and nobody other than us and Israel agree, so what? I'd like you to answer. So what?

#41 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2017-12-06 08:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Dirk you silly bastard, how did you get unplonked?
There will never be peace between them. We've been trying well before Trump to facilitate peace. I assume at least some admins did it in good faith and it's still not happening.

Maybe down the road somebody can remove the Jerusalem embassy as a bargaining chip, maybe not. Regardless, even if this silly announcement never happened, peace wasn't going to happen anyway. Pretending otherwise is a waste of time.

#42 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2017-12-06 08:50 PM | Reply

#41

So you've made it that much harder to negotiate with people who disagree and are thus less able to help control an ongoing conflict that costs lives and destabilized the region. And for what gain? Cheap political theater for the very worst corner of the domestic base.

#43 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-12-06 08:51 PM | Reply

"There will never be peace between them. We've been trying well before Trump to facilitate peace. I assume at least some admins did it in good faith and it's still not happening."

Do you get your entire understanding of history off the back of cereal boxes? Progress has been made and guess what? It has been when precisely when the IS presents itself to both sides as at least somewhat fair and trustworthy. The current regime has seriously damaged that and to no purpose whatsoever.

#44 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-12-06 08:54 PM | Reply

43
If I made an impossible task that much harder to complete, who cares? It was impossible to begin with.
I completely agree it's cheap political theater, btw.
I don't agree with Trump on this, or pretty much on anything, but I'm also not a fan of placating savages we can whoop just because they will react violently.

If people didn't believe D.C. was our capital would you care?

#45 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2017-12-06 08:57 PM | Reply

"If I made an impossible task that much harder to complete, who cares? It was impossible to begin with."

It's not impossible. The progress made to date in this and similar cases proves it.

"If people didn't believe D.C. was our capital would you care?"

Is DeeCee a sacred city to religious groups and ethno-political groups with competing claims upon it? No? Then I guess you are comparing apples and oranges.

#46 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-12-06 09:04 PM | Reply

And while we are on the subject, Chairborne, I am not sure you are in any position to be calling other people "savages."

#47 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-12-06 09:09 PM | Reply

There's a piece in today's Wall Street Journal written by a Zionist which explains how the previous little (none, really) benefit this affords is not worth the security risk.

It mentions four Israeli soldiers who were killed by a crazed Palestinian, apparently motivated by a crazy preacher who told him about Trump's plans to move the USA embassy to Jerusalem.

Or, as Chairblonde puts it, "So what?"

#48 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-06 09:10 PM | Reply

It's an enormous issue because violent arabs will throw a tantrum if "we" say where the capital of Israel really is, so let's treat them like children, right?

I'm not going to play a dumb game with you where the Palestinians are the cause of all the problems. Only morons and propagandists believe it.

This is another huge roadblock to a peaceful two-state solution. Without a two-state solution Israel will be a Jewish state with an Arab majority that grows bigger by the decade. How workable is that?

Jerusalem is a holy city to three religions. It needs to be shared. It doesn't need to be the capital of Israel any more than it needs to be the capital of Palestine.

#49 | Posted by rcade at 2017-12-06 09:41 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 3

That embassy is going to be a target and we all know it won't be Israel footing the bill for the extra security the site will require. Anyone working there will also be a target in their homes, on the way to and from work, when they go shopping, etc. It is an unnecessary expense that puts American lives at risk for no other reason than provocation and the only real beneficiary is our most one-sided ally. One of Trump's promises was to rectify one-sides alliances, not to make them even more costly and dangerous. This is yet another 180 degree turn from the promises that got him elected.

#50 | Posted by Sully at 2017-12-06 10:17 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

"Only a moron thinks that means it will no longer be a holy city to 3 religions."

Can it be a holy radioactive crater to three religions?
That might help put things in perspective for the Children of Abraham.

#52 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-06 10:26 PM | Reply

"Only a moron thinks that means it will no longer be a holy city to 3 religions."

You cannot be this clueless. Why do you think anyone has on objection to Jerusalem being the capital of Israel?

#53 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-12-06 11:01 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

#34 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

Maybe because this is obviously being provocative for no reason or without any clear gain?

Because after a couple trillion spend in the war on terror, which resulted in the destabilization of the ME, battle lines are being drawn up in a centuries old Islamic conflict and we've apparently intentionally asked to be attacked again?

Maybe because there's far too many loony "Christians" in this country who view Biblical "prophecy" (quotes because it's stupid garbage) as a decent guide to foreign policy and who think this is a crucial step forward in the second coming of Christ?

(although with all this human meddling I wonder if they'll get Gozer instead)

#54 | Posted by jpw at 2017-12-07 01:21 AM | Reply

This is stupid. You know why Jerusalem being called the capital of Israel is an enormous ------- issue.

#39 | POSTED BY RCADE

Or maybe he doesn't?

He's a typical American. They tend to be ignorant a ---- and, even worse, absolutely devoid of curiosity.

#55 | Posted by jpw at 2017-12-07 01:23 AM | Reply

This thread delivers. A law passed decades ago finally implemented. Rabid Muslim terrorists. People that still adorably believe a two-state solution is possible.

#56 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-12-07 07:19 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Muslims do not want to live with anyone else except Muslims. Everyone else who is being persecuted by Muslims understands this. For some reason, the U.N. and liberals do not.

#13 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2017-12-06 08:13 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

We put in place a Muslim ban. Have they put into place a Christian ban?

#57 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-12-07 07:57 AM | Reply

Progress has been made

Progress for who? It's Israel's country. The Muslims are just trying to buy time before they launch another attack to try and reclaim the city. It's the most besieged city in human history.

#58 | Posted by boaz at 2017-12-07 08:04 AM | Reply

#57,

Christians aren't the problem.

#59 | Posted by boaz at 2017-12-07 08:04 AM | Reply

Did Trump ever claim he wasn't going to start wars? Or was that just another part of his unearned deification?

#60 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2017-12-07 08:06 AM | Reply

Boaz, today:
"Christians aren't the problem."

Boaz, yesterday:
"People like you, who cant see both sides are truly the problem with today's world."

#61 | Posted by Danforth at 2017-12-07 08:09 AM | Reply

"Christians aren't the problem."

Couple hundred thousand dead Iraqis would beg to differ with you. Can you even imagine if some Muslim nation invaded and occupied America because we didn't like their leader? Put yourself in their shoes for a moment Boaz.

#62 | Posted by danni at 2017-12-07 08:47 AM | Reply

Progress for who? It's Israel's country. The Muslims are just trying to buy time before they launch another attack to try and reclaim the city. It's the most besieged city in human history.

Posted by boaz at 2017-12-07 08:04 AM | Reply

Actually it's stolen lands from the Palestinians. But don't let facts screw with your narrative.

#63 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-12-07 10:30 AM | Reply

Land purchased from absentee landlords. I don't believe squatters have internationally recognized rights.

#64 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-12-07 10:42 AM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

"Progress for who?"

Everyone. Progress towards a lasting peace benefits both sides.

"It's Israel's country."

They aren't the only ones with a claim on Jerusalem.

"The Muslims are just trying to buy time before they launch another attack to try and reclaim the city."

You don't know any such thing.

#65 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-12-07 11:02 AM | Reply

"People that still adorably believe a two-state solution is possible."

And why isn't it?

#66 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-12-07 11:04 AM | Reply

And why isn't it?

#66 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN AT 2017-12-07 11:04 AM | FLAG:

There is zero grand strategic benefit for Israel to do so. Palestine has zero bargaining power, and 2 separate territories with different governments.

#67 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-12-07 11:19 AM | Reply

Actually it's stolen lands from the Palestinians.

The Palestinians never owned anything in the first place. They were nomads. Even other Muslim countries didn't want them.


You don't know any such thing.

#65 | Posted by DirkStruan

Oh yea? Then why did the six day war happen?

#68 | Posted by boaz at 2017-12-07 12:32 PM | Reply

"There is zero grand strategic benefit for Israel to do so. Palestine has zero bargaining power, and 2 separate territories with different governments."

Nonsense. The Palestinians can keep fighting and keep bringing international pressure. The situation is costly to Israel in lives, treasure, and international Good will.

#69 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-12-07 01:04 PM | Reply

Oh yea? Then why did the six day war happen?

#68 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2017-12-07 12:32 PM | FLAG:

Half a century ago, you mean? How did your brain learn human speech?

#70 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-12-07 01:05 PM | Reply

"People that still adorably believe a two-state solution is possible."

And why isn't it?

#66 | Posted by DirkStruan

It's definitely not possible now. America just sided with Israel and proved once and for all that we are not an impartial facilitator.

#71 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-12-07 01:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Nonsense. The Palestinians can keep fighting and keep bringing international pressure. The situation is costly to Israel in lives, treasure, and international Good will.

#69 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN AT 2017-12-07 01:04 PM | FLAG:

LOL. Adorably naive. See the other backpage post "3 things to know about Trump's gambit". It's a very reasonably outlook on the situation.

#72 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-12-07 01:18 PM | Reply

"LOL. Adorably naive."

Because you say so? Your defeatism is, as usual, totally self-serving.

#73 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-12-07 01:22 PM | Reply

It's definitely not possible now. America just sided with Israel and proved once and for all that we are not an impartial facilitator.

#71 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY AT 2017-12-07 01:15 PM | FLAG: |

Which is the whole point. These conservative naysayers are basically saying "peace is impossible..." while ignoring the inextricably connected "...because we refuse to do what is necessary to make it possible."

#74 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-12-07 01:28 PM | Reply

Because you say so? Your defeatism is, as usual, totally self-serving.

#73 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN AT 2017-12-07 01:22 PM | FLAG:

No, because reality says it's impossible. Every single administration has failed in the two state solution. It simply exists as lip service to maintain regional alliances.

Go read the other thread. Reality won't hurt you physically, just your feelings.

#75 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-12-07 01:33 PM | Reply

"No, because reality says it's impossible."

Reality says no such thing. Progress has been made on this issue and peace has been established in similar situations elsewhere. What is needed is the will to aggressively pursue that outcome.

"Every single administration has failed in the two state solution. It simply exists as lip service to maintain regional alliances."

It doesn't follow that such a solution is impossible. We do know that gestures like this hurt the cause. How do you think the situation will develop if it becomes obvious that the US is explicitly abandoning the peace process?

#76 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-12-07 01:49 PM | Reply

So you still haven't read the article. I'm not surprised.

Keep saying "give peace a chance". It's nice. Useless, but nice.

#77 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-12-07 01:55 PM | Reply

This is yet another 180 degree turn from the promises that got him elected. - #50 | Posted by Sully at 2017-12-06 10:17 PM

Donald Trump wasn't the first winning candidate to call for moving the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem, but unlike previous presidents, he just might keep his promise.

#78 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-12-07 02:00 PM | Reply

"So you still haven't read the article. I'm not surprised."

Oh, I read it. It doesn't change a thing. The fact that efforts up to this point haven't been sufficient doesnt change the fact that this move makes things that much worse. Further, the article itself points out that this sort of public abandonment of the peace process itself will force a confrontation of the issue of the cooperation between Israel and the gulf states against Iran, absent the political cover provided by the peace process: in other words? It potentially disrupts those efforts by depriving the governments of both sides of the political cover provided by the peace process. So, even if we are cynical and only view the peace process as serving that role, it's abandonment still produces potentially destructive outcomes.

But neither you nor your article show why the two state solution is impossible beyond the US' failure to act as anything like an impartial mediator, a failure compounded to NO purpose by the current regime in Washington.

And I note yet again, the conflict has been de-escalated in the past by negotiation and similar conflicts elshwrre have been resolved altogether. Still waiting on your counter argument.

#79 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-12-07 02:02 PM | Reply

#57,

Christians aren't the problem.

#59 | Posted by boaz at 2017-12-07 08:04 AM | Reply | Flag:

Conservative Christians ARE a HUGE problem because they don't practice what they preach.

#80 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-12-07 02:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Lets see who thinks the Two State solution is impossible given the reality of the situation:

Here's Obama saying it's impossible: www.newsweek.com

Here's Abbas saying it: www.timesofisrael.com

Here's Abba's rival saying it: www.middleeastmonitor.com

Here's Hotovely: www.israelnationalnews.com

Here's Yaakov Katz: www.nydailynews.com (Peace Now agreed his estimates are reasonable)

Here's the NIE declaring Israel occupation of lands impossible to roll back if let continue to 2016: www.newyorker.com (hint: they didn't roll them back, and it's 2017)

Here's a military analysis of the fallout from the 6 day war saying the entire idea has been a fool's errand from the beginning: www.bloomberg.com

The death of the Two State solution has been a long time in the making. Trump is just the nail in the coffin. It's time to get over it and move on to what the real solutions will be.

#81 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-12-07 02:20 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Thanks for that well-cited response, Sitzkrieg.

#82 | Posted by Avigdore at 2017-12-07 02:22 PM | Reply

That's without even bringing up the corridor that would have to be created to link the West Bank & Gaza required for a two-state solution. It's on the maps from the failed 2005 attempt at the solution. Is the IDF going to let Hamas have free run of that? Hell no. They just spent decades bottling them up and building an effective, economical counter to the rocket attacks. It's a dead issue.

Where Trump hosed us was giving away a negotiating chip for free. Donnie the Dealmaker? Not so much.

#83 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-12-07 02:23 PM | Reply

Progress has been made on this issue

What progress, I ask again? If "progress" is only one sided toward the Muslims, it isn't progress.

peace has been established

Peace? Who's peace? There's "peace" there now. It's only the muslims rioting and bombing causing "not peace".

#84 | Posted by boaz at 2017-12-07 02:35 PM | Reply

When Obama took office, Americans supported Israel over the Palestinians (according to Gallup) 59 percent to 18 percent. When he left, the margin was 62 percent to 19 percent. In today's America, there aren't many issues that lopsided.

Most Americans are on the side of Israel. What's wrong with you?

#85 | Posted by boaz at 2017-12-07 02:44 PM | Reply

"Here's Abba's rival ..." - #81 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-12-07 02:20 PM

Abba's rival?

Would that be The Cardigans?

#86 | Posted by Hans at 2017-12-07 02:45 PM | Reply

Most Americans are on the side of Israel. What's wrong with you?

#85 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2017-12-07 02:44 PM | FLAG:

Argumentum ad populum, you simple creature.

#87 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-12-07 02:50 PM | Reply

At the time of the Six-Day War, there were virtually no Jews in the West Bank -- then annexed to Jordan -- or East Jerusalem. Today there are more than 400,000, living in towns, villages and settlements. Hundreds of thousands more reside in East Jerusalem.

Nothing is going to lead Israel to evacuate this many citizens to make way for a Palestinian state. If the Palestinians can't accept that, there is no two-state deal to be made.

Another obstacle is Israel's demand for security control over the entire West Bank, especially the Jordan Valley. The worry is that, otherwise, a fully armed and sovereign Palestinian state could open its eastern border to the Iranian army or its proxies, Islamic State, or whatever fresh hell appears. Palestinian negotiators swear on a stack of Korans that they would never do such a thing, but Israelis have too much experience to trust them. Any foreseeable Israeli government would insist that a Palestinian entity be demilitarized, and that Israel would control its borders. As long as the Palestinians can't agree, there will be no peace agreement.

Makes a lot of sense to me.

#88 | Posted by boaz at 2017-12-07 02:53 PM | Reply

#87,

In other words, you got nothing..

#89 | Posted by boaz at 2017-12-07 02:53 PM | Reply

In other words, you got nothing..

#89 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2017-12-07 02:53 PM | FLAG:

No, in other words, YOU'VE got nothing... since you are trotting out logical fallacies and all. But thanks for playing.

#90 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-12-07 02:55 PM | Reply

Makes a lot of sense to me.

#88 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2017-12-07 02:53 PM | REPLY |

I'm sure it does. But then, you are horribly prejudiced.

#91 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-12-07 02:56 PM | Reply

Don't worry, Boaz. True believers like us know that when Jesus returns to the Mount of Olives and smashes the Dome of the Rock into a million pieces, sends all those Muslim heathens to Hell, and makes His new Kingdom here on Earth in Jerusalem, Donald Trump will be the one to thank for setting into motion the rebuilding of the Temple.

/I wish I were being wholly facetious.

#92 | Posted by madscientist at 2017-12-07 03:09 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

#92 |

Israeli security at the Dome of the Rock is always on the look-out for rwing bombers dedicated to doing just that; helping God along with his plan because, ya know, God needs help.

But Jesus wouldn't bother to even piss on Trump, even if Trump was on fire and Jesus needed to pee.

#93 | Posted by Corky at 2017-12-07 03:15 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

This is the type of nihilistic, end-times stuff that was taught in the Pentacostal/Assembly of God churches by snake-oil salesmen passing themselves off as preachers when I was a kid. See which politicians are members of this denomination and you'll find the same logic as to their platforms.

#94 | Posted by madscientist at 2017-12-07 03:26 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

Most Americans are on the side of Israel. What's wrong with you?

Posted by boaz at 2017-12-07 02:44 PM | Reply

I'm not one of the brainwashed nitwits who claim Israel is all benevolent. Actually they are war criminals. USSLiberty anyone???

#95 | Posted by LauraMohr at 2017-12-07 04:01 PM | Reply

People that still adorably believe a two-state solution is possible.

Jesus Christ on a pogo stick. A two-state solution is the only solution, unless you favor an Israel where the minority Jewish population has to practice increasing acts of apartheid to keep the growing Arab majority down. How can you pretend this isn't true and even manage to be condescending about it?

#96 | Posted by rcade at 2017-12-07 04:03 PM | Reply

You're free to take that up with all the leaders who say it's dead including Obama, Palestinian, and Israeli leadership, NEI analysis, etc. Given that Trump has now officially killed it off, it's dead and time to move on. [...]

What we have now is the closest to a 2 state solution that will exist. 3 state solution is theoretically possible, and that could lead back to a 2 state solution via genocide of the had a strip.

#97 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-12-07 04:11 PM | Reply

Don't worry, Boaz. True believers like us know that when Jesus returns to the Mount of Olives and smashes the Dome of the Rock into a million pieces, sends all those Muslim heathens to Hell, and makes His new Kingdom here on Earth in Jerusalem, Donald Trump will be the one to thank for setting into motion the rebuilding of the Temple.

So Donald Trump is the Antichrist who will single-handedly bring on the End of Days??

I knew it!

#98 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-12-07 04:12 PM | Reply | Funny: 1

You're free to take that up with all the leaders who say it's dead including Obama ...

BS. Your link doesn't say Obama called a two-state solution impossible. He said it was impossible while Netanyahu was backing settlements in occupied territory. Big difference.

#100 | Posted by rcade at 2017-12-07 04:40 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 2

Do you think Israel wants peace that doesn't include the "Muslim" lands of the West Bank and Gaza?

You know there's like a million Jews occupying the West Bank, right?

#101 | Posted by snoofy at 2017-12-07 04:41 PM | Reply

Most Americans are on the side of Israel. What's wrong with you?

Most Americans voted Hillary Clinton for president.

Being in the majority didn't matter to you then. Now all of a sudden it does on Israel.

Right and wrong isn't decided by majority vote.

#102 | Posted by rcade at 2017-12-07 04:46 PM | Reply | Newsworthy 1

It's pretty obvious from Trump's sharing of anti-islam videos portraying them as violent was a precursor to this move, where he is also encouraging them to be violent. He'll get plenty more violent content in response, which will justify (in the pea-sized minds of his supporters) a war in the middle east.

#103 | Posted by JOE at 2017-12-07 04:47 PM | Reply

BS. Your link doesn't say Obama called a two-state solution impossible. He said it was impossible while Netanyahu was backing settlements in occupied territory. Big difference.

#100 | POSTED BY RCADE AT 2017-12-07 04:40 PM | REPLY

Cherry pick without the follow up. Follow what Obama said with the NEI analysis. BB's moves became impossible to undo as of last year.

That means the two state solution is dead.

It doesn't mean peace is impossible, but that route to it is.

#104 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-12-07 04:56 PM | Reply

Cherry pick without the follow up.

You said Obama called a two-state solution impossible. He obviously didn't. Next subject.

There is no peace in a one-state solution. Ever.

#105 | Posted by rcade at 2017-12-07 05:17 PM | Reply

Completely ignore the context and the NIE, and claim victory lol. That will get a half million Israelis out of the settlements. Any minute now...

Or we can stop clinging to one of the saddest tropes of US politics that has 70 years of failure behind it.

#106 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-12-07 05:20 PM | Reply

It's pretty obvious from Trump's sharing of anti-islam videos portraying them as violent was a precursor to this move, where he is also encouraging them to be violent. He'll get plenty more violent content in response, which will justify (in the pea-sized minds of his supporters) a war in the middle east.

#103 | Posted by JOE

Which will distract from the russia investigation.

Trump is going to get people killed just to get russia out of the headlines. Just like in House of Cards.

#107 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-12-07 05:34 PM | Reply

Most Americans are on the side of Israel. What's wrong with you?

#85 | POSTED BY BOAZ

Seriously! What is wrong with people?

Everyone knows that a Palestinian life is only worth 3/5's of an Israeli life.

#108 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-12-07 05:37 PM | Reply

The billionaires, lobbyists, and Christian extremists behind Trump's Jerusalem move

qz.com

IOW, Trump did it for his donors and his base.

#109 | Posted by Gal_Tuesday at 2017-12-07 05:49 PM | Reply

Or we can stop clinging to one of the saddest tropes of US politics that has 70 years of failure behind it.

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. If you have a solution to the Middle East, by all means let us know what it is.

#110 | Posted by rcade at 2017-12-07 06:46 PM | Reply

Or we can stop clinging to one of the saddest tropes of US politics that has 70 years of failure behind it.

#106 | POSTED BY SITZKRIEG AT 2017-12-07 05:20 PM | FLAG:

I chose option 3: the US can start taking the process seriously and work to actually establish its credibility as a FAIR mediator.

How about it, Sitz? Care to join all the civilized people over here? Or, you could come clean and just confess you are fine with Israel exterminating the Palestinians...

#111 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-12-07 06:57 PM | Reply

If you have a solution to the Middle East, by all means let us know what it is.

#110 | Posted by rcade

If you vote for him he will reveal his secret plan.

#112 | Posted by donnerboy at 2017-12-07 08:02 PM | Reply

If you vote for him he will reveal his secret plan.

#112 | Posted by donnerboy

And his plan to defeat ISIS, and his tax returns.

Trump supporters are stupid suckers.

#113 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2017-12-07 08:08 PM | Reply

Actually it's stolen lands from the Palestinians.
"The Palestinians never owned anything in the first place. They were nomads. Even other Muslim countries didn't want them."
You don't know any such thing.
#65 | Posted by DirkStruan
Oh yea? Then why did the six day war happen?
#68 | Posted by boaz at 2017-12-07 12:32 PM

Notice how this headline Mass Graves Discovered In Jaffa Containing Palestinian Bodies Predating 1948 Arab-Israeli War denies what the residents claim inside the article itself and is corroborated in this other article from The Jarusalem Post: 'Dozens of bodies found at mass grave in Jaffa'.

Jaffa is the original city that has become Tel Aviv, btw.

Why would the Israeli not want to publish information about these mass graves? Could it have something to do with the bodies all being Palestinian?

#114 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2017-12-08 12:43 AM | Reply

There is no peace in a one-state solution.

I beg to differ. It depends on the definition of "peace". Who's "peace" do we want?

#115 | Posted by boaz at 2017-12-08 07:18 AM | Reply

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. If you have a solution to the Middle East, by all means let us know what it is.

#110 | POSTED BY RCADE AT 2017-12-07 06:46 PM | REPLY

We've been chasing the two state solution in various forms since '47. The Brits tried 10 years before that.

Here is a realistic look at what the solution will end up being.

#116 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-12-08 08:29 AM | Reply

How about it, Sitz?

#111 | POSTED BY DIRKSTRUAN AT 2017-12-07 06:57 PM | FLAG:

Ditch your logical fallacies and projections. Read the link in 116.

#117 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-12-08 08:29 AM | Reply

Interesting:

The Jerusalem Embassy Act, passed by Congress 93 to 5 in the Senate and 374 to 37 with 153 Democrats joining the Republican majority, sent it to the White House. Bill Clinton did not sign it, but he didn't veto it. Therefore, by default, it became law.

So, in typical fashion, Congress followed it with a caveat to the President.

The President can keep delaying it to protect the National Security interests of the country.

So, ever since it became law, every President has kicked it down the road.

www.huffingtonpost.com

The GOP candidates had planned before the elections to do this - Trump simply is fulfilling it.

#118 | Posted by Petrous at 2017-12-08 10:19 AM | Reply

I beg to differ. It depends on the definition of "peace". Who's "peace" do we want?

#115 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2017-12-08 07:18 AM | REPLY | FLA

Right. If your definition of "peace" is "hellish apartheid state", then yes, a one state solution would indeed be "peace."

#119 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-12-08 10:39 AM | Reply

Peace sells, but who's buying?

--Dave Mustaine

#120 | Posted by madscientist at 2017-12-08 10:42 AM | Reply

#117

Yeah, I did so. How nice that you found a fellow shill to advocate a nightmarish apartheid state alongside you! You two should get shirts... so the rest of us can pick you out on the streets.

#121 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-12-08 10:45 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Recognizing reality and advocating for it aren't the same thing, but hey, it's fun to argue on the Internet.

Now you can keep singing kumbaya for everybody, maybe send some thoughts and prayers while you're at it.

#122 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-12-08 11:07 AM | Reply

"Recognizing reality and advocating for it aren't the same thing"

In your case? Yeah, they kind of are. It is just like self serving defeatism on climate change, wealth inequality and a host of other issues.

#123 | Posted by DirkStruan at 2017-12-08 11:37 AM | Reply | Funny: 1

Being informed about what's going to happen on the current course isn't defeatism. It just means an idea that hasn't worked for 80 years, has passed tipping points where it can't possibly work, won't work anymore. There's many competing alternatives, look them up. Your Team America can lead the way with credibility to a two state solution is heart warmingly adorable, but way out of date.

#124 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2017-12-08 12:50 PM | Reply

If the two state solution will not work, then the Israelis have to leave. The Palestinians were there first. It was there when we took and gave to the Israelis under the assumption of a two state system.

#125 | Posted by Sycophant at 2017-12-09 03:39 AM | Reply

The Palestinians were there first.

The native Americans were here first.

Our government recently kicked their asses so an oil corporation could lay pipe.

Might makes right. The native Americans and the Israelis are screwed.

#126 | Posted by ClownShack at 2017-12-09 05:02 AM | Reply

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